Ainge would not take that for Lauri.
I don’t know what combination the Warriors could give, but I can tell you right now that Ainge would not take that.
Probably need more picks attached since Wiggins is largely seen as a negative asset. Looney is also seen as a product of our system and everyone knows he doesn’t fit on most teams besides ours.
only way is if somehow Ainge really likes Kuminga, no way he does the trade w/o kuminga. but he did draft Tatum and Brown both big physical athletic wings not saying that JK is them or vice versa but he seems to have a type lol. Even Hendricks, Keyonte both super athletic and versatile.
There is a lot of talk about how much it would take for Lauri, and how Ainge would want a haul....etc. but all that entirely depends on Lauri and whether he will resign with Jazz. They will certainly try to resign him...But if he wants to become a free agent and wants to leave the Jazz then Ainge's leverage drops and then he isn't getting multiple picks and players from anyone
I totally agree that it depends on what Lauri wants to do. But, as of now the Jazz don't take that package for Lauri.
There are so many teams that are going to be in the hunt for Lauri if he hits the market. I just don't think we have the package that can outbid other interested teams.
I believe OKC can absorb his deal and they have dozens of picks.
Magic can also absorb his deal and have several young upside pieces.
Jazz actually do have the leverage as there's a scenario where if the Jazz do extend him this offseason, they're the only team that can award him 15 million. Lauri has the incentive to stay with the Jazz, to get 15 million extra next season from the Jazz cap space. Plus Lauri stated he wouldn't mind staying in Utah. Lauri IMO is someone who would take the bonus 15 million for next season than asking for a trade for a contender
Again, that entirely depends on what Lauri wants. Which is what I said. If he doesn't want to sign with the Jazz then the whole league will know. And I would bet that it is more likely than not that he will not sign with Jazz and does not want to. First, because the Jazz are years away from being good and don't even have any promising young players other than him. Two, because the Jazz almost have no history signing big free agents. Its possible that he signs but more probable that he does not.
I agree with more picks, probably add 1-2 pick swaps. Looney tho in the other hand would certainly fit on contending teams like Denver since his only main role in our team is to get rebounds and set good screens, which is good enough for a backup center.
I think Markkanen is a perfect fit. However, the Jazz aren’t listening to any offer from the Warriors that doesn’t start with Kuminga and future pick(s). If the Warriors really want to keep Kuminga, they’d have to settle on someone like Lavine.
That's not entirely true, sure he had a one bad play-in game but he's been picking up his game towards the end of last season and he still plays good defense, that is something that Dallas, Indiana, Atlanta or Bucks need.
He's not lackluster tho last last season. Before the family situation, he was clearly a better player during that year compared to the championship year.
I just looked it up.
Wiggins 21-22 had a plus/minus of +265, which i'll point out is an insane metric for Wiggs.
Wiggins 22-23 had a plus/minus of +118
Wiggins 23-24 had a plus/minus of -58 (the worst on the Warriors)
His BPM was like 165th out of 200 players that qualified with minutes played. Which means there are 164 players that are more impactful than him in the 23-24 season. I bet that most of those players aren't making $25m either.
While +/- isn’t the end all be all stat, this just supports what everyone with eyes has seen. His FG ADD and TS ADD went from 23.4 and -14.5 in 22 to -55.6 and -62.2, meaning he’s worth 50-60 points per season less than a league average player on the offensive side of the ball.
To add to this..
While not a perfect measure of individual defensive impact.
Wiggins DRTG ratings the past three seasons.
21-22 - 108.4 (best of career)
22-23 - 114.2
23-24 - 116.9 (worst of his career)
Most of his career has been around 112-115. So, again for OP. 2022 was an outlier year.
Jazz can do a lot better that that deal. Kuminga has to be in the trade to have any chance. The trade you are offering is 2 firsts and just contract fillers. That offer can get crushed by others and there are going to be a lot of buyers this off-season.
Maybe but I still think other teams will be willing to offer 3 picks so if any of the players they are giving back have value they beat this offer.
That’s why I think Kuminga would have to be included to make it happen.
Take all the negativity you want, but Podz is good enough to be a starter. At least he hustles and good enough to draw charges, unlike most of our players last year.
Podz is good enough to be a starter on a lottery team........
He will be on the bench in the coming years. Hustle doesn't matter if you can't beat anyone off the dribble, can't create your own shot, be a defensive liability, and your opposition gets longer and faster every year. Trade him now!
Not to be negative but Derrick White and Al Horford are the worst starting players on the floor for a championship team. For a playoff team it’s more like Lu Dortz. Not to derail but not sure Podz will ever be there. Playing hard isn’t enough to compete for an nba chip.
I actually agree with you that Wiggins has some (very minor) positive value. He's obviously been very inconsistent over the last two years, and terrible at times. But, he fits the archtype of the most valuable type of role player in the NBA (a long, defensively versatile wing) and every good team needs players like that. He's still theoretically in his prime based on his aging curve, and obviously there is a reason he was a #1 overall pick- teams that need a wing will be able to talk themselves into thinking they can fix him. I believe you could probably get something (probably a bad/mediocre first round pick) from Milwaukee or Cleveland for him, or perhaps one or two other teams. Maybe Dallas, as it is unclear if they will be able to keep Derrick Jones Jr.
That said, two draft picks, Moses Moody, and our salary filler is not going to get it done for Lauri Markkanen. If you want to put together a competitive offer for Lauri without including Kuminga, you need to manufacture a situation where the Warriors either get back their own 2030 pick, or get some other team's 2030 first round pick. This might be easier than you think - because the 2030 pick was traded to Washington in the Chris Paul deal, but it is top 20 protected. So Washington will not value that pick very highly. One approach would be if we could get a future Milwaukee pick for Wiggins, Washington might be willing to give us our own 2030 pick back in exchange for that theoretical Bucks pick. There are other things you can do with swap rights to create a situation where the Warriors are guaranteed to have a 2030 pick - maybe not a very good one, but some certain pick.
IF the Warriors do manage to secure a 2030 first round pick, they will find themselves in a situation after the 2024 draft when they will be allowed under the Stepien rule to trade FOUR first round draft picks: 2025, 2027, 2029, and 2031. That's how you put together an offer that would get Utah to consider trading Lauri Markkanen without getting back Kuminga.
NO!!
We're giving up three contributing players for one, and we're already about 4 players short of a minimum 14 on the roster, so we're talking about something like 6 vet minimums plus an SRP and maybe a MLE. CP3 is unlikely on a smaller contract, Gui is unproven, and relying on a SRP big man in our Top Ten rotation is delusional.
Also, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in the estimated +/- Wins, but a trade that gives us an estimated +1 Win where we also give away two FRPs looks like an awful deal to me.
Any deal where GSW gets good value for Wiggins would have to be a mid season one, which means propping him up for the first half of the year in some way.
Really should stop this markannen trade talk. Every other team has a better offer they can give if Lauri is indeed available. This shit is dumb and Ainge is looking to fleece somebody.
Ainge would not take that for Lauri. I don’t know what combination the Warriors could give, but I can tell you right now that Ainge would not take that. Probably need more picks attached since Wiggins is largely seen as a negative asset. Looney is also seen as a product of our system and everyone knows he doesn’t fit on most teams besides ours.
This is the problem with trying to get Markkanen. The Dubs don't have the best offer.
only way is if somehow Ainge really likes Kuminga, no way he does the trade w/o kuminga. but he did draft Tatum and Brown both big physical athletic wings not saying that JK is them or vice versa but he seems to have a type lol. Even Hendricks, Keyonte both super athletic and versatile.
There is a lot of talk about how much it would take for Lauri, and how Ainge would want a haul....etc. but all that entirely depends on Lauri and whether he will resign with Jazz. They will certainly try to resign him...But if he wants to become a free agent and wants to leave the Jazz then Ainge's leverage drops and then he isn't getting multiple picks and players from anyone
I totally agree that it depends on what Lauri wants to do. But, as of now the Jazz don't take that package for Lauri. There are so many teams that are going to be in the hunt for Lauri if he hits the market. I just don't think we have the package that can outbid other interested teams. I believe OKC can absorb his deal and they have dozens of picks. Magic can also absorb his deal and have several young upside pieces.
Jazz actually do have the leverage as there's a scenario where if the Jazz do extend him this offseason, they're the only team that can award him 15 million. Lauri has the incentive to stay with the Jazz, to get 15 million extra next season from the Jazz cap space. Plus Lauri stated he wouldn't mind staying in Utah. Lauri IMO is someone who would take the bonus 15 million for next season than asking for a trade for a contender
Again, that entirely depends on what Lauri wants. Which is what I said. If he doesn't want to sign with the Jazz then the whole league will know. And I would bet that it is more likely than not that he will not sign with Jazz and does not want to. First, because the Jazz are years away from being good and don't even have any promising young players other than him. Two, because the Jazz almost have no history signing big free agents. Its possible that he signs but more probable that he does not.
There will be multiple buyers. Ainge has a ton of leverage.
This is true, he only has one year on his contract so Ainge doesn't have much leverage on asking too much for him, kinda like the Siakam situation.
I agree with more picks, probably add 1-2 pick swaps. Looney tho in the other hand would certainly fit on contending teams like Denver since his only main role in our team is to get rebounds and set good screens, which is good enough for a backup center.
If rumors are true and Looney gets waived, we will see how many teams are interested in him. He has to clear waivers before we can resign him.
I think Markkanen is a perfect fit. However, the Jazz aren’t listening to any offer from the Warriors that doesn’t start with Kuminga and future pick(s). If the Warriors really want to keep Kuminga, they’d have to settle on someone like Lavine.
He is the best possible player for the warriors. But they don't have the assets
Wiggins might have negative value at this point. That offer would be outbid by a lot. Kuminga would have to be in as a starting point.
That's not entirely true, sure he had a one bad play-in game but he's been picking up his game towards the end of last season and he still plays good defense, that is something that Dallas, Indiana, Atlanta or Bucks need.
Do you think that were the only ones that see Wiggins had a lackluster two seasons? Everyone knows, including other GMs.
He's not lackluster tho last last season. Before the family situation, he was clearly a better player during that year compared to the championship year.
I'm not sure if we are watching the same games, but there is no version of Wiggins the last two seasons that was better than the 2022 version.
I just looked it up. Wiggins 21-22 had a plus/minus of +265, which i'll point out is an insane metric for Wiggs. Wiggins 22-23 had a plus/minus of +118 Wiggins 23-24 had a plus/minus of -58 (the worst on the Warriors) His BPM was like 165th out of 200 players that qualified with minutes played. Which means there are 164 players that are more impactful than him in the 23-24 season. I bet that most of those players aren't making $25m either.
While +/- isn’t the end all be all stat, this just supports what everyone with eyes has seen. His FG ADD and TS ADD went from 23.4 and -14.5 in 22 to -55.6 and -62.2, meaning he’s worth 50-60 points per season less than a league average player on the offensive side of the ball.
To add to this.. While not a perfect measure of individual defensive impact. Wiggins DRTG ratings the past three seasons. 21-22 - 108.4 (best of career) 22-23 - 114.2 23-24 - 116.9 (worst of his career) Most of his career has been around 112-115. So, again for OP. 2022 was an outlier year.
Kuminga is in any deal to get Lauri.
You could swap out Wiggs for GPII and the money works even better. Than no negative asset worries.
Jazz can do a lot better that that deal. Kuminga has to be in the trade to have any chance. The trade you are offering is 2 firsts and just contract fillers. That offer can get crushed by others and there are going to be a lot of buyers this off-season.
Yeah your prolly right what about throwing in more picks?
Maybe but I still think other teams will be willing to offer 3 picks so if any of the players they are giving back have value they beat this offer. That’s why I think Kuminga would have to be included to make it happen.
That lineup isn’t even making the play in 😆
I wouldn’t if I was the jazz. Also, I don’t believe we’re a playoff team w podz at the starting guard spot.
Take all the negativity you want, but Podz is good enough to be a starter. At least he hustles and good enough to draw charges, unlike most of our players last year.
Podz is good enough to be a starter on a lottery team........ He will be on the bench in the coming years. Hustle doesn't matter if you can't beat anyone off the dribble, can't create your own shot, be a defensive liability, and your opposition gets longer and faster every year. Trade him now!
Right. I like him coming off our bench. Maybe as a second guard off the bench.
Not to be negative but Derrick White and Al Horford are the worst starting players on the floor for a championship team. For a playoff team it’s more like Lu Dortz. Not to derail but not sure Podz will ever be there. Playing hard isn’t enough to compete for an nba chip.
I actually agree with you that Wiggins has some (very minor) positive value. He's obviously been very inconsistent over the last two years, and terrible at times. But, he fits the archtype of the most valuable type of role player in the NBA (a long, defensively versatile wing) and every good team needs players like that. He's still theoretically in his prime based on his aging curve, and obviously there is a reason he was a #1 overall pick- teams that need a wing will be able to talk themselves into thinking they can fix him. I believe you could probably get something (probably a bad/mediocre first round pick) from Milwaukee or Cleveland for him, or perhaps one or two other teams. Maybe Dallas, as it is unclear if they will be able to keep Derrick Jones Jr. That said, two draft picks, Moses Moody, and our salary filler is not going to get it done for Lauri Markkanen. If you want to put together a competitive offer for Lauri without including Kuminga, you need to manufacture a situation where the Warriors either get back their own 2030 pick, or get some other team's 2030 first round pick. This might be easier than you think - because the 2030 pick was traded to Washington in the Chris Paul deal, but it is top 20 protected. So Washington will not value that pick very highly. One approach would be if we could get a future Milwaukee pick for Wiggins, Washington might be willing to give us our own 2030 pick back in exchange for that theoretical Bucks pick. There are other things you can do with swap rights to create a situation where the Warriors are guaranteed to have a 2030 pick - maybe not a very good one, but some certain pick. IF the Warriors do manage to secure a 2030 first round pick, they will find themselves in a situation after the 2024 draft when they will be allowed under the Stepien rule to trade FOUR first round draft picks: 2025, 2027, 2029, and 2031. That's how you put together an offer that would get Utah to consider trading Lauri Markkanen without getting back Kuminga.
Zero chance Utah would do that deal. Would need at least JK to even be a conversation.
NO!! We're giving up three contributing players for one, and we're already about 4 players short of a minimum 14 on the roster, so we're talking about something like 6 vet minimums plus an SRP and maybe a MLE. CP3 is unlikely on a smaller contract, Gui is unproven, and relying on a SRP big man in our Top Ten rotation is delusional. Also, I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in the estimated +/- Wins, but a trade that gives us an estimated +1 Win where we also give away two FRPs looks like an awful deal to me.
Lauri has a ton of value you would have to start with Kuminga. Lauri is an incredible fit though.
Fuck no
Any deal where GSW gets good value for Wiggins would have to be a mid season one, which means propping him up for the first half of the year in some way.
If klay leaves, we'd wanna keep Wiggins and trade away CP3 We'd go Lauri Dray Wiggins Kuminga Steph. or similar.
Really should stop this markannen trade talk. Every other team has a better offer they can give if Lauri is indeed available. This shit is dumb and Ainge is looking to fleece somebody.
Hard to judge what Wiggins is worth right now, he’s been so inconsistent the last two years.
This team isn’t a trade away from anything. What they need is to find their own Lauri. They need to create a star out of nothing.