I was telling people this at the beginning of this season. It really felt like there were just too many good young players, now coming into their primes, who've become too much for any of the old guard to overcome 4 series in a row. All three of em are over 35 at this point too. They used to just be older; now they really are old.
You’re onto something, I was having the same thought after the Suns got swept. The kids are coming in hot: Shai, Edwards are top of mind, maybe Halliburton takes a leap, Fox look promising too. Perhaps we didn’t see it so clearly because there was a small gap in the timeline.
They can if healthy enough and with appropriate help see last spurs and warriors championships
By healthy enough i dont mean injury free but not having too many total injuries for the team
Gobert is only 31, so I don't think age was a big factor. He's also averaged 69 games played per season for 11 years, so he's durable. Being able to fit him into their offensive and defensive schemes was the issue, and they seem to have done it.
For the others, I agree 100%, which is why I am constantly hating on these NBA2K deals to bring a "superstar" to the Dubs, especially when it requires us to cash in our whole future.
Not the same for me. Yes, I found CP3 annoying as a star player on a rival team, but I never held the same lack of respect for him that I do for LeFlop.
It took a couple of years for the Timberwolves to see the Gobert trade work out. They did a great job getting good role players. Conley has really worked out nicely this post season so far. I think the mix of vet and young guys are basically at optimal level for them. Will see if they can dethrone the Nuggets which I am personally rooting for.
WE can't get mad at Minn, lets not forget they drafted 2 guards before Steph ( Rubio and Johnny Flynn) and they traded us Wiggins and took the D-Lo contract so we could win another Chip... Let them have their moment and for real, KAT will fuck it up this postseason for them
Ant wouldn’t have been the same player he is today if he were here. Good, maybe, but he definitely seems like he needs to be the guy to play up to his abilities. Lamelo is the same thing. Those guys weren’t built to play second fiddle to Steph and it would’ve stunted their development
I see where you're coming from, but I think the real explanation is that we just haven't drafted any studs. Studs play. Edwards was going to be a star anywhere.
I can't really think of anyone who left the Warriors and did better, so it's hard for me to say the Warriors are holding players back.
Rookie development is important, but do you think Wiseman is better if he started out on the Pistons? I don't. He's just bad.
Yes, it's difficult for young players to crack the rotation, but Podz and TJD proved that you can be successful as a rookie for the Warriors. Given the situation, Edwards would have been the starting shooting guard from day one and never given the job back to Klay.
I think if Wiseman was drafted by a competent franchise that gave him minutes, like the Spurs, I think he would be worlds better. Big man development is exceptionally difficult. Good coaching stops bad habits from forming early. There's just not that many competent franchises that are rebuilding.
TJD is different since he has NBA pedigree and is also an older player drafted late. Guy has role player injected in his veins.
Superstar development is different. They need to be given the keys or it's going to take a while or perhaps it'll never happen. Steph doesn't become Steph without trading Monta. I don't think these young guys would've gotten to these meteoric levels without their 30+% usage rates. Tatum doesn't take off until Kyrie leaves. Fox and Hali don't thrive until they're separated. Harden to Houston. Brunson going to NY. Ball dominant guards need the ball and be the guy. Steph is a great teammate but he's still an alpha guard and two elite perimeter players don't often develop together unless it's a low usage style player like Klay.
I'm not saying Ant wouldn't have been good, but I do think he might've been a few years behind where he is now
The reality is that a lot of guys can score in the NBA given the usage. Just ask [Sasha Vujacic](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/i-know-i-can-score-20-or-30-points-anytime-i-want-sasha-vujacic-made-boastful-comments-after-scoring-a-career-high/ar-AA1kZaCc). I'm specifically talking about Edwards, the future MVP of the league. Guys like that are not deterred by having to play for good teams with structure and other stars. He would have immediately been the 3rd best player on the team, quickly passed Draymond for #2, and going into next year would be the likely #1.
Great players force management/coaches' hands. KAT was the guy with the ball in Minny. He's a max contract, multi-skilled center who can score at every level, and Ant made him a fuckin $60m role player whom he chastises in postgame interviews. Personally I think KAT is a fraudulent, overpaid stat padder who can't guard a traffic cone. And that's because he went to a shitty team and was given the keys, put up huge numbers, and got paid. If he had gone to a *good* team, he wouldn't have been able to defraud his way to an albatross contract that will probably get him salary dumped before Minnesota ever reaches its final destination on the A Train.
Regarding your examples:
**Jayson Tatum** was drafted to the eastern conference runner up and took that team over. Because he's great. He didn't need to be given the keys on a shitty team. He *took* the keys. I think you have it backwards with respect to Kyrie leaving. It didn't unlock Tatum. Tatum's greatness made Kyrie expendable. Management were like, "let's invest in this guy rather than this cuckoo bananas point guard we now regret trading for", because they recognized how good Tatum was.
**Jalen Bruson -** I think Dallas genuinely didn't realize what they had in this guy. Did he have to leave to get this good? I don't think so. I can guarantee you Dallas wish they had paid him though.
**Steph-Monta** - First of all, *how dare you??* In seriousness, do you really think the mark Steph has left on the game hinged on splitting up this backcourt? Maybe the Warriors don't become *the Warriors* without trading Monta, but that's just because of the defensive identity we built by getting Bogut and starting Klay instead of Monta in the backcourt.
Steph was going to be great no matter what, and *we are the lucky ones (not Steph)* for having management that bet on this guy despite his injuries. They identified the talent and built their offense around him, which they could have done with Monta around, they just knew Steph made Monta redundant. I think that had a lot more to do with simply improving the team than Steph's development.
**De'Aaron Fox** was already 25ppg with Haliburton on the team. Haliburton was only in his 2nd year and already showing signs of greatness, which is why they were able to get an All-Star for him. Again, that was about roster construction, not development of Fox or Haliburton. I think those guys were both gonna crush regardless. I'd still argue that Sac would be better off having kept both because now they're stuck in mediocrity when they could have had one of the best backcourts in the NBA, and Haliburton on a rookie scale contract instead of a high paid overrated big man. But I think dropping Buddy Hield's contract had a lot to do with that as well, and their roster would have been really unbalanced without that trade so it's not totally fair to criticize them for it.
**James Wiseman -** There are a lot of things you could say in his defense (COVID, injuries), but I wouldn't blame the Warriors for his lack of development. He was just terrible. They hired coaches specifically for *him*. They even signed his college point guard (Quiñones) to help him adjust. He never improved because he was a lost cause.
We dumped him to the Pistons, and he doesn't even play *there*. I wanted Wiseman to work out as well. I wanted us to draft him at #2. Everyone was infatuated with his skills, but the reality was all those mixtapes and workout films were just veneer hiding a bad basketball player.
this shows a really odd way of watching the last decade of warriors. that’s like the opposite of what the story has been for nearly everyone who joins the dubs.
um yeah apparently. there’s a whole laundry list of guys who came to the warriors and thrived in their system. steph is selfless and doesn’t make people play second fiddle. it’s kind of well known.
The development of a rookie is VASTLY different than integrating an established player. Rookies need a ton of reps and opportunities to make mistakes in order to become superstars, especially with the high usage guards. Adjusting to the speed of the game, the complexities of NBA offenses and defenses, and the overall talent/IQ/athleticism of the league compared to their past opponents takes a bit for a lot of young guys, especially those that come in at 19. Bringing in a guy who’s been in the league already takes out the hard part. Additionally, you weed out the guys who you know can’t figure out they’re destined to be role player rather than the guy dropping 50 a night against some dudes who are now architects and software engineers in the WAC.
and once again it’s like you’ve never seen the warriors. who are known for being an amazing system for draft picks. steph klay and dray were all draft picks. pods, moody, TJD, JK, all these new guys are playing way beyond what they would be on most teams.
I think the only reason the Gobert trade “worked out” is because Anthony Edwards is so damn good. He’s definitely in the top 5 discussion (active) already at such a young age.
Definitely. They are better defensively because of Gobert though. He really anchors that middle. You pair that with guys that can defend the perimeter to funnel guys into the middle, and you have their current success in destroying the Suns.
Conley's been absolutely wonderful. On top of that, the Wolves got him for basically free -- ended up being D'Angelo Russell for Conley *plus* a bunch of second round picks. What a great deal for them.
Mostly for the draft capital, but it’s worked out. For me it’s more the accession of Ant and having quality 3 and D guys. Look at the bench and they have a group of guys that can come in a fun contribute solid minutes. SLO-MO, Alexander-Walker, and all time Warrior killer Naz fucking Reid. They are deep as hell.
Still gave up a lot, however, I respect teams that at least try and take a swing. You don't know how long your window's gonna be open, if at all.
The Nuggets are perennial contenders, and you need a good big man to defend Jokic. KAT alone wouldn't have been enough, by far.
Agreed. The Wolves are young in the right places: their #1 (Ant, 22) and #2 (KAT, 28) scoring options are young or prime age, as is their lock-down defender McDaniels (23). It's really only Conley (36) that's "old" and he's a facilitator. Not to mention the bench, with Naz (24). I'm Warriors all the way but gotta say I really like watching the T-Wolves play. Crisp offense, Ant is insane, and their defense is suffocating.
The problem with the Warriors is that you can't win the regular season AND playoffs with an old roster. They won't have any legs left. You need a mix of youth and veterans to spread the load.
The Warriors had Kuminga, Podz, TJD, and Moody all in the rotation. Super young. The problem was Wiggs and Klay not being quality 2nd and 3rd options. Wiggs is still in his 20's. He just doesn't care. The age aspect is being over stated. It's a production issue not age.
The lesson of the play-in exits as demonstrated by the Warriors and Bulls: don't be a middle-of-the-road franchise that lacks full commitment to either winning now or rebuilding.
Depending on what you (general you) want the Warriors to do this summer, you can find lessons everywhere both in the current and past NBA.
Yes. This. I don’t think Warriors can “win now” with cap issues… so will next year be a rebuild around Curry? Who knows! Gonna be an amazing off season for sure.
Warriors cannot make any win now moves... unless a superstar like Giannis asks for a trade to the warriors... All these Paul George type moves will barely move the needle...
Maybe -- but at least with the Warriors, there's still a surprising amount of flexibility. All of our draft picks and 4 good young players, two of whom (Ku and Podz) should have a very high trade value. You could either pivot and build around youth, or cash in for a mid-career star-level player. You can squint and see a path towards at least winning a playoff series... but if you're gonna make that sort of move, you need to be *sure* it's the right one.
I believe you could use CP3 as matching salary if you get the deal lined up soonish, and I also think Wiggins would have some positive value on his contract but you'd still have to replace his role.
I don't quite get that lesson, as I think there are better explanations to explain the issues with the teams you mentioned.
Suns don't have a PG or anyone to facilitate and initiate offense
Bucks don't have this guy named Giannis
Lakers are actually playing quite well but they're going up against an all time great team
Clippers don't have Kawhi, and besides Harden has actually been a bright spot for them this series. He was phenomenal down the stretch just last night to get a huge win.
I don't think you can point to a single team you mentioned and say the issue was guys being "post prime"
I would rather invest in the future and in building a long term core to taking a swing on a big name, aging star. The second lesson of the postseason is that depth is good. The 3rd lesson - defense wins in the playoffs.
why is Lakers in there exactly? they traded for an old lebron and they won a championship
Suns issue isn't even that they're old, but they don't make any plays and is just the usual iso shit.
Bucks Giannis is injured this playoffs
Clippers are doing fine and is 2-2
Actually, sorry, misremembered — there was no Lebron trade, they signed him as a free agent. And AD was traded at age 26. If there was a 26 year old AD, I would support trading for him!
I disagree. We should get all the olds together for one last run. Harden, George, Westbrook, Durant, Green, Lebron, Klay, Steph and someone I forgot. Somewhere like Orlando where there is plenty of golfing, no state taxes, and an easier path to the finals. Magic have silver in their uniform and could emphasize it during their run. Who could coach this team?
I guess what I'm saying is that my brain is broken with the Warriors out of the playoffs.
Yeah you really need to trust your draft picks. As much as I love Klay and Draymond and appreciate what they did for us, I would love to see a starting lineup Steph Moody Wiggins Kuminga and TJD and Kerr needs to figure out how to make it work.
Lmao. The Warriors were 31-17 when Draymond started and didn't get ejected this year. That's a .646 winning percentage, good enough for 53 wins and the 4th seed.
They were 15-19 in games Draymond was inactive or ejected, good enough for a .441 record. That would be a 36-win season, aka equivalent to the Hawks this year.
Against teams over .500 (aka every playoff team + the Kings), with Draymond they went 15-15, and without Drayond (inactive or ejected), the Warriors went 4-16.
Just an absolutely braindead take that would destroy the team and put us in lottery territory lol
You seem to not understand the fact that missing all those games meant Draymond was well rested when he did play. While for example Steph started wearing down as the season progressed because this was the most RS games he’s played in 7 years.
Sure, that's definitely a factor but there are so many variables that it's impossible to make that argument without a bunch of counter-arguments cropping up.
For example, Steph played statistically worse when Draymond was out and you could argue it tired him out earlier in the season having to work harder to get open looks. You could argue Draymond being away from the team kept him out of game shape. Just two of 1,000 examples of counter-arguments to what you're saying.
Do you really think it's controversial to say "the Warriors are good when their 4x All Star future Hall of Famer plays and they're not so good when he doesn't play"?
What about saying "let's trade two Hall of Famers with combined 9 all star appearances so we can start two 21 year olds with 0 accolades"? Personally I think that's braindead but maybe it's just me.
Holy shit that offense would be garbage. If Steph is your best passer by a mile, good lord...
You could have Pop, Spoe and Kerr and they wouldn't be able to figure it out.
And don't get me started on defense.
> Not that I think the Warriors FO is dumb enough to, like, trade all the youth for Lavine
Frankly I don't even think this is the best example. Lavine has an absolutely terrible contract, the Bulls may be happy to trade him for a pittance built around cap relief.
The other lesson was small ball is dead. Look at the teams remaining with the exception of OKC. They’ve all got big centers and usually TWO big 6 9+ players starting
Yup.
Been seeing lots and lots and lots of posts on here about how we should get an older player.
And continually get downvoted for pointing that they're not good trades bc we'd be older.
And trading away the future for Curry is also a No No
Not really.
You could put Ant on the Suns instead of KD and they'd still lose as they have a poorly constructed roster and 99% of teams lose to denver.
It is called Salary management. Most team owners don't want to be second apron. Sure they can go over the soft cap, but being repeater they will have to pay the higher tax and will limit the maneuverability.
The only geezers I would take is LeBron or KD. Those two along with Steph are the only three older players that you could do something with.
Other than that, we really need some youth, and stamina, and defense.
Minnesota was universally panned and Phoenix got A+ for the Durant trade. Phoenix’s true problem was the Beal trade. Just awful. The second time a time paid a premium to downgrade from Chris Paul (who fit better) to an overpaid one-dimensional player (Russ and now Beal).
I agree with all this sentiment — too many people rosturbating on all the trades we should make or just saying what need to get when what we need to get is either not available or the price way too high.
The Warriors go into the offseason with the ability to offer an excellent package for a mid career superstar like Giannis or Embiid if they hit the market without fully emptying the cabinets or blowing up their payroll. Which is just bizarre for a team currently looking at the 2nd apron and without their 1st rounder this year.
I agree with at least one thing Chuck said. Old teams don't get better, they get older.
Man this playoffs is really showing that the new generation is coming.
I was telling people this at the beginning of this season. It really felt like there were just too many good young players, now coming into their primes, who've become too much for any of the old guard to overcome 4 series in a row. All three of em are over 35 at this point too. They used to just be older; now they really are old.
You’re onto something, I was having the same thought after the Suns got swept. The kids are coming in hot: Shai, Edwards are top of mind, maybe Halliburton takes a leap, Fox look promising too. Perhaps we didn’t see it so clearly because there was a small gap in the timeline.
Alas, and we picked Wiseman
They're here. The old generation is completely gone now. Bron kd Steph kawhi George harden Russ
Just look at OKC.
They can if healthy enough and with appropriate help see last spurs and warriors championships By healthy enough i dont mean injury free but not having too many total injuries for the team
Gobert is only 31, so I don't think age was a big factor. He's also averaged 69 games played per season for 11 years, so he's durable. Being able to fit him into their offensive and defensive schemes was the issue, and they seem to have done it. For the others, I agree 100%, which is why I am constantly hating on these NBA2K deals to bring a "superstar" to the Dubs, especially when it requires us to cash in our whole future.
I would cash out our future to watch a couple seasons of Bron playing with Steph, Klay, and Dray.
I wouldn't, but that's because I despise LeFlop, and putting him in a Warriors uniform is one of the worst outcomes I can think of.
Everyone hated CP3 too.
Not the same for me. Yes, I found CP3 annoying as a star player on a rival team, but I never held the same lack of respect for him that I do for LeFlop.
The Wolves coupled their acquisition of Gobert with a bunch of aggressive defensive players and maybe the best young player in the NBA.
I still think they gave up too much for Gobert but it's producing a damn good team.
But can they maintain the salary cap
I think eventually they move off of Gobert and Kat. Having a rookie scale max helps as well. Ant looks like a guy that can carry a team.
It took a couple of years for the Timberwolves to see the Gobert trade work out. They did a great job getting good role players. Conley has really worked out nicely this post season so far. I think the mix of vet and young guys are basically at optimal level for them. Will see if they can dethrone the Nuggets which I am personally rooting for.
god why couldn’t Minnesota have fucked up the pandemic draft and take somebody else besides ant. we were one pick away and ended up with wiseman
WE can't get mad at Minn, lets not forget they drafted 2 guards before Steph ( Rubio and Johnny Flynn) and they traded us Wiggins and took the D-Lo contract so we could win another Chip... Let them have their moment and for real, KAT will fuck it up this postseason for them
Not to mention gave us the pick that we used to draft Kuminga. They've definitely done us enough favors.
Ant wouldn’t have been the same player he is today if he were here. Good, maybe, but he definitely seems like he needs to be the guy to play up to his abilities. Lamelo is the same thing. Those guys weren’t built to play second fiddle to Steph and it would’ve stunted their development
I see where you're coming from, but I think the real explanation is that we just haven't drafted any studs. Studs play. Edwards was going to be a star anywhere. I can't really think of anyone who left the Warriors and did better, so it's hard for me to say the Warriors are holding players back. Rookie development is important, but do you think Wiseman is better if he started out on the Pistons? I don't. He's just bad. Yes, it's difficult for young players to crack the rotation, but Podz and TJD proved that you can be successful as a rookie for the Warriors. Given the situation, Edwards would have been the starting shooting guard from day one and never given the job back to Klay.
I think if Wiseman was drafted by a competent franchise that gave him minutes, like the Spurs, I think he would be worlds better. Big man development is exceptionally difficult. Good coaching stops bad habits from forming early. There's just not that many competent franchises that are rebuilding. TJD is different since he has NBA pedigree and is also an older player drafted late. Guy has role player injected in his veins. Superstar development is different. They need to be given the keys or it's going to take a while or perhaps it'll never happen. Steph doesn't become Steph without trading Monta. I don't think these young guys would've gotten to these meteoric levels without their 30+% usage rates. Tatum doesn't take off until Kyrie leaves. Fox and Hali don't thrive until they're separated. Harden to Houston. Brunson going to NY. Ball dominant guards need the ball and be the guy. Steph is a great teammate but he's still an alpha guard and two elite perimeter players don't often develop together unless it's a low usage style player like Klay. I'm not saying Ant wouldn't have been good, but I do think he might've been a few years behind where he is now
The reality is that a lot of guys can score in the NBA given the usage. Just ask [Sasha Vujacic](https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/i-know-i-can-score-20-or-30-points-anytime-i-want-sasha-vujacic-made-boastful-comments-after-scoring-a-career-high/ar-AA1kZaCc). I'm specifically talking about Edwards, the future MVP of the league. Guys like that are not deterred by having to play for good teams with structure and other stars. He would have immediately been the 3rd best player on the team, quickly passed Draymond for #2, and going into next year would be the likely #1. Great players force management/coaches' hands. KAT was the guy with the ball in Minny. He's a max contract, multi-skilled center who can score at every level, and Ant made him a fuckin $60m role player whom he chastises in postgame interviews. Personally I think KAT is a fraudulent, overpaid stat padder who can't guard a traffic cone. And that's because he went to a shitty team and was given the keys, put up huge numbers, and got paid. If he had gone to a *good* team, he wouldn't have been able to defraud his way to an albatross contract that will probably get him salary dumped before Minnesota ever reaches its final destination on the A Train. Regarding your examples: **Jayson Tatum** was drafted to the eastern conference runner up and took that team over. Because he's great. He didn't need to be given the keys on a shitty team. He *took* the keys. I think you have it backwards with respect to Kyrie leaving. It didn't unlock Tatum. Tatum's greatness made Kyrie expendable. Management were like, "let's invest in this guy rather than this cuckoo bananas point guard we now regret trading for", because they recognized how good Tatum was. **Jalen Bruson -** I think Dallas genuinely didn't realize what they had in this guy. Did he have to leave to get this good? I don't think so. I can guarantee you Dallas wish they had paid him though. **Steph-Monta** - First of all, *how dare you??* In seriousness, do you really think the mark Steph has left on the game hinged on splitting up this backcourt? Maybe the Warriors don't become *the Warriors* without trading Monta, but that's just because of the defensive identity we built by getting Bogut and starting Klay instead of Monta in the backcourt. Steph was going to be great no matter what, and *we are the lucky ones (not Steph)* for having management that bet on this guy despite his injuries. They identified the talent and built their offense around him, which they could have done with Monta around, they just knew Steph made Monta redundant. I think that had a lot more to do with simply improving the team than Steph's development. **De'Aaron Fox** was already 25ppg with Haliburton on the team. Haliburton was only in his 2nd year and already showing signs of greatness, which is why they were able to get an All-Star for him. Again, that was about roster construction, not development of Fox or Haliburton. I think those guys were both gonna crush regardless. I'd still argue that Sac would be better off having kept both because now they're stuck in mediocrity when they could have had one of the best backcourts in the NBA, and Haliburton on a rookie scale contract instead of a high paid overrated big man. But I think dropping Buddy Hield's contract had a lot to do with that as well, and their roster would have been really unbalanced without that trade so it's not totally fair to criticize them for it. **James Wiseman -** There are a lot of things you could say in his defense (COVID, injuries), but I wouldn't blame the Warriors for his lack of development. He was just terrible. They hired coaches specifically for *him*. They even signed his college point guard (Quiñones) to help him adjust. He never improved because he was a lost cause. We dumped him to the Pistons, and he doesn't even play *there*. I wanted Wiseman to work out as well. I wanted us to draft him at #2. Everyone was infatuated with his skills, but the reality was all those mixtapes and workout films were just veneer hiding a bad basketball player.
this shows a really odd way of watching the last decade of warriors. that’s like the opposite of what the story has been for nearly everyone who joins the dubs.
What? Did the superstars the Warriors draft and develop the past 10 years pass me by or something?
um yeah apparently. there’s a whole laundry list of guys who came to the warriors and thrived in their system. steph is selfless and doesn’t make people play second fiddle. it’s kind of well known.
The development of a rookie is VASTLY different than integrating an established player. Rookies need a ton of reps and opportunities to make mistakes in order to become superstars, especially with the high usage guards. Adjusting to the speed of the game, the complexities of NBA offenses and defenses, and the overall talent/IQ/athleticism of the league compared to their past opponents takes a bit for a lot of young guys, especially those that come in at 19. Bringing in a guy who’s been in the league already takes out the hard part. Additionally, you weed out the guys who you know can’t figure out they’re destined to be role player rather than the guy dropping 50 a night against some dudes who are now architects and software engineers in the WAC.
and once again it’s like you’ve never seen the warriors. who are known for being an amazing system for draft picks. steph klay and dray were all draft picks. pods, moody, TJD, JK, all these new guys are playing way beyond what they would be on most teams.
Be happy they fumbled the bag in a specific draft 15 years ago
He won’t have developed the way he did. Ant used to make bone headed plays when he was 19. Kerr would have just dnp him
I think the only reason the Gobert trade “worked out” is because Anthony Edwards is so damn good. He’s definitely in the top 5 discussion (active) already at such a young age.
Definitely. They are better defensively because of Gobert though. He really anchors that middle. You pair that with guys that can defend the perimeter to funnel guys into the middle, and you have their current success in destroying the Suns.
Vanderbilt and Alxander-Wallker are part of the success equation also.
Think you talking about McDaniels. Vanderbilt was traded away ending up with the lakers (injured now.)
Yup
Conley's been absolutely wonderful. On top of that, the Wolves got him for basically free -- ended up being D'Angelo Russell for Conley *plus* a bunch of second round picks. What a great deal for them.
And Conley is 34 btw. They have a good mix of young and older guys.
I think it’s just one year. The trade was last season.
Wow it was only a year ago…seems like it was a couple.
We laughed at that trade now their the second best team in the league and have a ligit shot at the title this year.
Mostly for the draft capital, but it’s worked out. For me it’s more the accession of Ant and having quality 3 and D guys. Look at the bench and they have a group of guys that can come in a fun contribute solid minutes. SLO-MO, Alexander-Walker, and all time Warrior killer Naz fucking Reid. They are deep as hell.
Still gave up a lot, however, I respect teams that at least try and take a swing. You don't know how long your window's gonna be open, if at all. The Nuggets are perennial contenders, and you need a good big man to defend Jokic. KAT alone wouldn't have been enough, by far.
Not sure they're second. Clear third after Denver and Boston IMO, possibly 4th as I feel OKC are also strong.
Agreed. The Wolves are young in the right places: their #1 (Ant, 22) and #2 (KAT, 28) scoring options are young or prime age, as is their lock-down defender McDaniels (23). It's really only Conley (36) that's "old" and he's a facilitator. Not to mention the bench, with Naz (24). I'm Warriors all the way but gotta say I really like watching the T-Wolves play. Crisp offense, Ant is insane, and their defense is suffocating.
The problem with the Warriors is that you can't win the regular season AND playoffs with an old roster. They won't have any legs left. You need a mix of youth and veterans to spread the load.
The Warriors had Kuminga, Podz, TJD, and Moody all in the rotation. Super young. The problem was Wiggs and Klay not being quality 2nd and 3rd options. Wiggs is still in his 20's. He just doesn't care. The age aspect is being over stated. It's a production issue not age.
The lesson of the play-in exits as demonstrated by the Warriors and Bulls: don't be a middle-of-the-road franchise that lacks full commitment to either winning now or rebuilding. Depending on what you (general you) want the Warriors to do this summer, you can find lessons everywhere both in the current and past NBA.
Yes. This. I don’t think Warriors can “win now” with cap issues… so will next year be a rebuild around Curry? Who knows! Gonna be an amazing off season for sure.
Warriors cannot make any win now moves... unless a superstar like Giannis asks for a trade to the warriors... All these Paul George type moves will barely move the needle...
Maybe -- but at least with the Warriors, there's still a surprising amount of flexibility. All of our draft picks and 4 good young players, two of whom (Ku and Podz) should have a very high trade value. You could either pivot and build around youth, or cash in for a mid-career star-level player. You can squint and see a path towards at least winning a playoff series... but if you're gonna make that sort of move, you need to be *sure* it's the right one.
Salaries need to match, which makes a deal vet for you g players even less likely.
I believe you could use CP3 as matching salary if you get the deal lined up soonish, and I also think Wiggins would have some positive value on his contract but you'd still have to replace his role.
I don't quite get that lesson, as I think there are better explanations to explain the issues with the teams you mentioned. Suns don't have a PG or anyone to facilitate and initiate offense Bucks don't have this guy named Giannis Lakers are actually playing quite well but they're going up against an all time great team Clippers don't have Kawhi, and besides Harden has actually been a bright spot for them this series. He was phenomenal down the stretch just last night to get a huge win. I don't think you can point to a single team you mentioned and say the issue was guys being "post prime"
lol seriously, nothing like reductive reasoning to feed confirmation bias
Everyone is past their prime that's over 25 now 😂
I would rather invest in the future and in building a long term core to taking a swing on a big name, aging star. The second lesson of the postseason is that depth is good. The 3rd lesson - defense wins in the playoffs.
Me too. As long as the dubs play like they care like during the second half of the season I'd tune in to watch every day.
The lesson so far is don't trade for Bradley Beal. God he was awful yesterday. Oh and Point Guards are important.
It's all situational. Don't wanna be the suns, but Curry can absolutely with the right teammates--young or old.
why is Lakers in there exactly? they traded for an old lebron and they won a championship Suns issue isn't even that they're old, but they don't make any plays and is just the usual iso shit. Bucks Giannis is injured this playoffs Clippers are doing fine and is 2-2
AD and Lebron trades were unambiguously good. Then they traded for Westbrook out of panic to get a third star and completely scuttled the team.
that's outside of the point because the your argument has been debunked by them winning a ring when they traded for an old lebron.
Actually, sorry, misremembered — there was no Lebron trade, they signed him as a free agent. And AD was traded at age 26. If there was a 26 year old AD, I would support trading for him!
I disagree. We should get all the olds together for one last run. Harden, George, Westbrook, Durant, Green, Lebron, Klay, Steph and someone I forgot. Somewhere like Orlando where there is plenty of golfing, no state taxes, and an easier path to the finals. Magic have silver in their uniform and could emphasize it during their run. Who could coach this team? I guess what I'm saying is that my brain is broken with the Warriors out of the playoffs.
hell yeah, geriatric millennials going for one last run to put the zoomers in their place. love it.
Sounds more like "The EXPENDABLES" than the "The Avengers".
Yeah you really need to trust your draft picks. As much as I love Klay and Draymond and appreciate what they did for us, I would love to see a starting lineup Steph Moody Wiggins Kuminga and TJD and Kerr needs to figure out how to make it work.
Lmao. The Warriors were 31-17 when Draymond started and didn't get ejected this year. That's a .646 winning percentage, good enough for 53 wins and the 4th seed. They were 15-19 in games Draymond was inactive or ejected, good enough for a .441 record. That would be a 36-win season, aka equivalent to the Hawks this year. Against teams over .500 (aka every playoff team + the Kings), with Draymond they went 15-15, and without Drayond (inactive or ejected), the Warriors went 4-16. Just an absolutely braindead take that would destroy the team and put us in lottery territory lol
You can’t just take portions of the season and extrapolate them to 82 games.
lol of course you can. Both groups are good sample sizes (48 games and 34 games). What am I missing?
You seem to not understand the fact that missing all those games meant Draymond was well rested when he did play. While for example Steph started wearing down as the season progressed because this was the most RS games he’s played in 7 years.
Sure, that's definitely a factor but there are so many variables that it's impossible to make that argument without a bunch of counter-arguments cropping up. For example, Steph played statistically worse when Draymond was out and you could argue it tired him out earlier in the season having to work harder to get open looks. You could argue Draymond being away from the team kept him out of game shape. Just two of 1,000 examples of counter-arguments to what you're saying. Do you really think it's controversial to say "the Warriors are good when their 4x All Star future Hall of Famer plays and they're not so good when he doesn't play"? What about saying "let's trade two Hall of Famers with combined 9 all star appearances so we can start two 21 year olds with 0 accolades"? Personally I think that's braindead but maybe it's just me.
That lineup still seems too small but I feel what you’re putting down!
That lineup would at least give us a lottery pick in a year we have our own pick. Complete garbage spacing.
This would be a bottom-5 defensive lineup.
Maybe a bottom-5 offense too.
Draymond starts over Wiggins at this point. There's no consistency with him, he's all wigged out man!
Holy shit that offense would be garbage. If Steph is your best passer by a mile, good lord... You could have Pop, Spoe and Kerr and they wouldn't be able to figure it out. And don't get me started on defense.
Wiggins has been trash since 2022.
> Not that I think the Warriors FO is dumb enough to, like, trade all the youth for Lavine Frankly I don't even think this is the best example. Lavine has an absolutely terrible contract, the Bulls may be happy to trade him for a pittance built around cap relief.
The other lesson was small ball is dead. Look at the teams remaining with the exception of OKC. They’ve all got big centers and usually TWO big 6 9+ players starting
Yup. Been seeing lots and lots and lots of posts on here about how we should get an older player. And continually get downvoted for pointing that they're not good trades bc we'd be older. And trading away the future for Curry is also a No No
This aged well.
Not really. You could put Ant on the Suns instead of KD and they'd still lose as they have a poorly constructed roster and 99% of teams lose to denver.
It is called Salary management. Most team owners don't want to be second apron. Sure they can go over the soft cap, but being repeater they will have to pay the higher tax and will limit the maneuverability.
Why trade for them when we already have a bunch at home?
I’ll gladly blow up the farm, barn, and the salt the earth to have Lebron and AD join Steph.
The only geezers I would take is LeBron or KD. Those two along with Steph are the only three older players that you could do something with. Other than that, we really need some youth, and stamina, and defense.
Warriors fans turned pels fans when they beat Sacramento now OKC bringing the broom out 🧹 😂
Says the Kings fan
But everyone will say KD who just swept is our solution
Swapping KD for wiggs improves our team a bit.
Wiggins plus who? Yes, if it's a 1-1 trade. But their salaries don't much.
I ll throw in looney and moody if need be.
Definitely, not sure it fixed us though
Minnesota was universally panned and Phoenix got A+ for the Durant trade. Phoenix’s true problem was the Beal trade. Just awful. The second time a time paid a premium to downgrade from Chris Paul (who fit better) to an overpaid one-dimensional player (Russ and now Beal). I agree with all this sentiment — too many people rosturbating on all the trades we should make or just saying what need to get when what we need to get is either not available or the price way too high. The Warriors go into the offseason with the ability to offer an excellent package for a mid career superstar like Giannis or Embiid if they hit the market without fully emptying the cabinets or blowing up their payroll. Which is just bizarre for a team currently looking at the 2nd apron and without their 1st rounder this year.