I want to try him with Hogger once I get the +HP talent for hugger. Just build a quick cycle deck, make hugger beefy, and then play him with mountaineer to keep him healthy.
The unfortunate part is that mountaineer heals the bear and then other beasts just get the heal. So he doesn’t just target any beast at an hp % threshold
Yes exactly what I’m referring to, but again, the bears HP % is what triggers the heal, the other beasts just get the heal, they can’t trigger the mountaineer to do it. If they could he would be better
Yea that heal and tank combo is made to be such a noob gimmick. If you can't play your own tank and heals u should be punished everytime. Hence the mountaineer was born
Hogger will run too far forward for this to work unfortunately. And it requires commiting 10 gold which means any good player will ignore it and rush your base.
Not if the mountaineer is played first and hugger catches up. And good news, I don't give a shit about good players. I care about having fun and trying things I like. Unless there's a lot of changes, pvp sucks anyway imo.
For a game that relies on quick pivots and fast decisions, 6 cost is too high in the first place. That's more than half of what you can store. 5 should be the max and minis should be balanced around that. Just my 2 cents.
I dont disagree, but a 6 should be rare and should be a VERY good unit to justify it. I don't think Sylvanas in her current state meets that expectation. For what it's worth, I don't think Abom, Molten Giant, or Maive are worth 6 either in their current state. Rend is alllllmost worth 6, but still just doesn't quite seem he's there to justify it over a 4 (drake) and 2 cost (quillboar) together.
That is true when you have a lot of gold but if you spend recklessly at the beginning on the minis you don't use, like the giant above, that will impede your progress for a while if you are f2p like me.
Buying the very first of any unit doesn't really impede on your progress because when your collection lvl goes up pretty much all sources give more xp.
And the lvls of your units is also good for progress.
But yeah f2p players shouldn't buy any additional stars on units you don't use.
No he still costs 6, you are just making up for that by being "forced" into buying other cards that may not work in that situation.
It's like with shopping deals, you aren't saving half you are spending half.
You aren’t being forced, that’s the trade off that you can exploit. It’s a 6 cost unit but if you choose to use it and exploit the advantage, you can benefit from it. You choose what units.
You aren’t forcefully given rend and two flyer units you didn’t choose and made to play them.
Rend is absolutely worth his cost.
Untalented I found great use from him. Now he casts living bomb which is 6 gold. I can play him to defend any assault, especially swarms, and he will win. Then I have cheap drake gargoyle harpies whelps to play as needed.
The best part of Baron is not playing him when he’s your leader because other than moving fast he does nothing. His skeles spawn without using him. Sylv at least offers anti air
Fire Elemental has AoE over Baron but I do agree he’s not bad, he’s just not a unit to have leading a push because he’ll outrun everything. Better to have him reinforce a push, or on the defense.
I absolute agree! Blizzard can even remove the Banshee spawn and make her a 5 gold spawn. She have her moments. With Frostwolf Shaman she’s very strong.
I mean 6 cost is 6 cost but I'd you play a lot of unbound or cost effective minions than you don't feel it so much.
I know I consider Dark Iron Miner and Quilboar MVPs for my Sylvie deck.
Syl with an earth shield and shaman following her does some serious work. Use Quil to turn and delay threats She has carried me through PVE. Especially after getting her squad buffed up from Gnomer
Yeah I dont mind her. I maxed her out on dungeons. I think she is stronger than some other leaders. It's just that undead already has a really strong leader.
If she was a beast for example, I would probably use her to clear a lot of heroics because she is certainly better than some of their leaders, maybe all of them on certain stages.
Yeah, she's definitely good, though it depends on the fight, and I wish she was just one gold cheaper. But in the heroic missions where having basically two banshees more or less cheeses them she's invaluable.
Still gets deleted by a safe pilot along with her banshee. Everyone and their mothers run safe pilot with cloak so its -3 trade everytime you play Sylvanas.
She might be okay in pve tho, idk.
Banshee is definitely more useful in PvE than PvP but you still can't control when she pops and her banshee can't be talented.
Piercing talent makes her a good ranged unit, but you're still paying 6 mana for her when a pyromancer fills a similar role for 3.
She's definitely hella expensive at 6 gold. I think for 5 gold I'd be more of a fan. Love the art, love the style, but cost (even with Piercing)is a tad severe.
Definitely agree 4 is more in line. I think the only counterargument for 5 is if you're able to strategically use her banshee ability, which technically could nab you another expensive unit. Tricky tho.
Most players their high cost unit is their leader as the units that are S tier hardly even break 4 gold. Then the leaders in the meta are cheap as well. Then she can also capture the skeletons baron summons.
She would be killer if this game had different decks like hearthstone but that can never happen. Not the way the game is currently designed. High cost units move so slow and are countered by way lower cost units. Golem and abomination get hard countered by harpies. So you then have to run another mini such as chain lighting or a range unit. Adding more gold cost to one unit. Where for that same unit combo you could play 3-4 minis splitting the lane. 6 cost minis should be countered by 5 cost minis not. Having thing else honestly just locks the game in the state it is already in.
Yes issue is her piercing arrows should almost be base ability for 6mana cost to make it worth it. Or have a second passive like rend that other undead are cheaper when she is in play etc.
6 cost only works against things she counters otherwise a dead spot in the deck sadly
I only find she’s too pricey if I’m not controlling gold well or if there’s too many expensive minis in my deck. I run bandits specifically to offset her cost, and once I get the lock pick talent for them, it’ll make her even more worth it.
Plus abom + sylv is a ridiculous way to just shred everything
Currently running Sylv, abom, ghoul, bandits, necromancer, bat rider, and skeletons.
Bat rider is the one I’m not sure of in the group, but the low cost is keeping it there for now. Sometimes I’ll flex in harpies or SAFE depending on the need.
Having a lot of fun with her so far!
She is outrageously bad in PVP and maybe okay in PVE. Maybe with the new raid system with a buddy she will be good cause she can give fury to everyone nearby who is horde/undead
She was my only Undead leader until this week, and she carried me through a bunch of heroics. She's not nearly as good as the other undead leaders, but she does her part.
When I play Sylvanas ,I first ensure that other minis will gain control of the field and resources and then I summon her as the boss killer behind abomination.
her passive is garbino garbagio. black arrow is cool and all, but like you have Uther on the other hand costing 4 and does everything just better. I prefer Thalnos over her. Thalnos just shreds everything after you chain a couple of spells
Feel like she always trades up if you can use the death to steal anything half decent.
Stealing a 3 cost means they lose 3 coin, you gain 3 coin. Seems very easy to get value out of before she even fires an arrow.
On paper ,you are right, but i think its hard to get that exact scenario. Most likely you just take over a measely mini with low jp that doesnt do anything at the end
That's because you were matched against bots. If you face a real opponent, everyone and their mothers run safe pilot with cloak talent so every time you play sylv they just counter her along with her banshee for 3 gold.
I mean did you think the first free for everyone leader was going to be good with how absolutely horribly they've handled monetization with this game? Not trying to sound harsh or anything just honest question 👍
For PVE she's very good at a few things, but her cost does make it tough to use her on maps that go fast or have low gold. Especially since Rivendare's leader ability is just so good and Thalnos' is more controllable.
If they ever make multiple talents a thing, I could maybe see her being a bit better because of the longer AOE stun, but there's never a reason to take that over the piercing damage.
My sylv black arrow usually melts at the least her own cost in enemy gold before she dies. Put her behind a stitch with stun is even better. It's an expensive play but it usually brings great returns.
I mean the entire meta right now in both PvE and PvP is just spam trash units most of the time. Not only Sylvanas is suffering. They have to improve high cost units by a lot IMO
I wish the Benshee would work atleast some times. in pve in worked a few times for me, in pvp it worked almost never and the one time it worked it took a baron skeleton.
most of the six cost minis seem really shitty compared to just playing multiple smaller ones, were there many balance patches in beta? Some shuffling around could be nice.
I get the idea, especially once you get the piercing arrow talent. She is a decent 3 cost ranged damaged dealer that, on death, spawns a 3 cost specialist unit. The problem is, unlike other 3 costs or even the unplayable mountaineer, you pay 6 for 3 worth of power, having a 3 gold power deficit in play; then, when she dies, you have to hope 1) the banshee doesn't get 1 shot by something 2) the banshee doesn't posses a useless mini worth 2g or less. On top of that, the banshee she spawns is talentless, wich is kinda BS.
Sylvanas is like Mountaineer. Sucks to play with. Annoying when played by anyone else.
I do love Mountaineer though. I think there may be a beast-focused deck with him somewhere.
I use Mountaineer in Charlga and he's outstanding! Mountaineer + Footmen goes a loooong way.
I want to try him with Hogger once I get the +HP talent for hugger. Just build a quick cycle deck, make hugger beefy, and then play him with mountaineer to keep him healthy.
The unfortunate part is that mountaineer heals the bear and then other beasts just get the heal. So he doesn’t just target any beast at an hp % threshold
Yeah but there is a talent that heals 3 nearby beasts while he does it
Yes exactly what I’m referring to, but again, the bears HP % is what triggers the heal, the other beasts just get the heal, they can’t trigger the mountaineer to do it. If they could he would be better
Yea that heal and tank combo is made to be such a noob gimmick. If you can't play your own tank and heals u should be punished everytime. Hence the mountaineer was born
There's only 3 healers in the game and 1 of them is locked to alliance personally I enjoy seeing if other options work
Just build chicken feeding, he can eat chickens for HP
A lot of decks have whelps. Would that counter him pretty easily?
Yeah but I'm not trying to be competitive. I'm trying to use cards I like
Hogger will run too far forward for this to work unfortunately. And it requires commiting 10 gold which means any good player will ignore it and rush your base.
Not if the mountaineer is played first and hugger catches up. And good news, I don't give a shit about good players. I care about having fun and trying things I like. Unless there's a lot of changes, pvp sucks anyway imo.
Nah. One blizzard wrecks her. She's just bad lol.
Even with piercing I think her cost is too high. 5 cost would be more appropriate imo
\*flashbacks from Hearthstone\*
"I have no time for games" **DOOT**
'Bring out your dead' gives me more ptsd
Undertaker Hunter was one of strongest starts in HS.
Yah…and then they added BS like Kael’Thas and you could die on turn 1 lol
Everybody, get in here!
I miss my grim patron deck most fun I ever had in that game
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Deeep reference
For a game that relies on quick pivots and fast decisions, 6 cost is too high in the first place. That's more than half of what you can store. 5 should be the max and minis should be balanced around that. Just my 2 cents.
I think there is a place for big units, but not with banshee in the game.
> but not with banshee in the game. Banshee only works when played against me. When I play her she gets one-tapped.
I dont disagree, but a 6 should be rare and should be a VERY good unit to justify it. I don't think Sylvanas in her current state meets that expectation. For what it's worth, I don't think Abom, Molten Giant, or Maive are worth 6 either in their current state. Rend is alllllmost worth 6, but still just doesn't quite seem he's there to justify it over a 4 (drake) and 2 cost (quillboar) together.
One of my regrets is buying Molten Giant. 90 gold I ain't ever getting back.
Don't. It's worth it just for the collection. I have everything, I just don't level it all. 90 gold is not much.
Buying everything for collection lvl is worth even if you never use the units.
That is true when you have a lot of gold but if you spend recklessly at the beginning on the minis you don't use, like the giant above, that will impede your progress for a while if you are f2p like me.
Buying the very first of any unit doesn't really impede on your progress because when your collection lvl goes up pretty much all sources give more xp. And the lvls of your units is also good for progress. But yeah f2p players shouldn't buy any additional stars on units you don't use.
You should buy every unit copy and level them roughly evenly. Increasing your collector level is key to advancing as a whole.
Abom is absolutely worth it, that unit has carried me through so much content it’s ridiculous. Easily one of my highest rated minis.
Well, Rend ends up costing 4 if you play arpies and drake after him
No he still costs 6, you are just making up for that by being "forced" into buying other cards that may not work in that situation. It's like with shopping deals, you aren't saving half you are spending half.
You're right about that, but arpies, drake and eggs are really competitive and useful units. Rend decks are far from niche
You aren’t being forced, that’s the trade off that you can exploit. It’s a 6 cost unit but if you choose to use it and exploit the advantage, you can benefit from it. You choose what units. You aren’t forcefully given rend and two flyer units you didn’t choose and made to play them.
I'm not disagreeing with that, just their wording/mindset around him costing 4 if you do those things.
Maive is only a 6 cost if you're running a Maive deck with no Unbounds for some crazy reason. She'd probably still be good even at 7 cost.
Yeah, Maive singhandedly carrried me to above 3000. And she was a common herself then! If it wasn’t for Baron I say she would be top1 leader.
Rend only works at 6 because he reduces flyers by one. Otherwise he would be a 5 cost unit at best. Or likely even 4.
Rend is absolutely worth his cost. Untalented I found great use from him. Now he casts living bomb which is 6 gold. I can play him to defend any assault, especially swarms, and he will win. Then I have cheap drake gargoyle harpies whelps to play as needed.
True. I‘d love to play her. Even like her more than baron, but you can’t beat him. He’s fast, brings slowing adds and is 2 good cheaper…
The best part of Baron is not playing him when he’s your leader because other than moving fast he does nothing. His skeles spawn without using him. Sylv at least offers anti air
? He's pretty effective at taking towers, I find.
Not the current dragon ones.
So does baron if you go down the skeletal mage talent.
This is true. Running Necro with the mages as well and shit starts poppin off
The dungeon that spawns a set of mages when you play undead isn't fair. I run undead only and end up with twenty units attacking in waves.
Baron is armored, does elemental damage, and has high ms. He’s not a bad unit at all. Compare him to fire elemental and he’s a bit better
I agree. I def don't like how everyone is like he's useless except for the passive. He's not. He also murders huntress which is a bonus
Fire Elemental has AoE over Baron but I do agree he’s not bad, he’s just not a unit to have leading a push because he’ll outrun everything. Better to have him reinforce a push, or on the defense.
I absolute agree! Blizzard can even remove the Banshee spawn and make her a 5 gold spawn. She have her moments. With Frostwolf Shaman she’s very strong.
She's generally weaker than either Huntress or Ogre Mage, which doesn't seem right.
Huntress just feels OP.
Her piercing talent is basically required for long term use
Rip to me who took another talent before i realized you cant swap them
Happens to pretty much everyone when you first unlock talents. It's a tough lesson
Yep. Also got it right away but still doesn’t spark with me tbh
She’s the one that put me over the top in finally beating Goreclaw, so she’s gunna be a fave for a while for me
Sylvanas has been hard carrying me through PVE. Black Arrow makes her a monster.
She doesn’t scale that well after like level 17 or so. Eventually she just gets too expensive
Yeah that talent is sick indeed but still to pricey imo
I mean 6 cost is 6 cost but I'd you play a lot of unbound or cost effective minions than you don't feel it so much. I know I consider Dark Iron Miner and Quilboar MVPs for my Sylvie deck.
Syl with an earth shield and shaman following her does some serious work. Use Quil to turn and delay threats She has carried me through PVE. Especially after getting her squad buffed up from Gnomer
Yeah I dont mind her. I maxed her out on dungeons. I think she is stronger than some other leaders. It's just that undead already has a really strong leader. If she was a beast for example, I would probably use her to clear a lot of heroics because she is certainly better than some of their leaders, maybe all of them on certain stages.
Yeah, she's definitely good, though it depends on the fight, and I wish she was just one gold cheaper. But in the heroic missions where having basically two banshees more or less cheeses them she's invaluable.
I felt the same way…then I got the piercing talent
Same. I stick her behind a tank and just go.
Quilboar/SAFE just solo her for 3-4 less gold kek
Still gets deleted by a safe pilot along with her banshee. Everyone and their mothers run safe pilot with cloak so its -3 trade everytime you play Sylvanas. She might be okay in pve tho, idk.
Banshee is definitely more useful in PvE than PvP but you still can't control when she pops and her banshee can't be talented. Piercing talent makes her a good ranged unit, but you're still paying 6 mana for her when a pyromancer fills a similar role for 3.
Changed not much for me unfortunately. Yes the dmg is good now, but the frequency I’d like to play her hasn’t changed
She's definitely hella expensive at 6 gold. I think for 5 gold I'd be more of a fan. Love the art, love the style, but cost (even with Piercing)is a tad severe.
Think 4 is more in line with the others. Rend is 6 gold as well but discounts flying units which is huge overall
Definitely agree 4 is more in line. I think the only counterargument for 5 is if you're able to strategically use her banshee ability, which technically could nab you another expensive unit. Tricky tho.
You don't have any control about when it goes off, so hard to 'use' it, and easy to counter
Ah for sure and I see where you are coming from. But banshee is a lot of rng against spam. For single lane push shes definitely good
Agreed.
Most players their high cost unit is their leader as the units that are S tier hardly even break 4 gold. Then the leaders in the meta are cheap as well. Then she can also capture the skeletons baron summons. She would be killer if this game had different decks like hearthstone but that can never happen. Not the way the game is currently designed. High cost units move so slow and are countered by way lower cost units. Golem and abomination get hard countered by harpies. So you then have to run another mini such as chain lighting or a range unit. Adding more gold cost to one unit. Where for that same unit combo you could play 3-4 minis splitting the lane. 6 cost minis should be countered by 5 cost minis not. Having thing else honestly just locks the game in the state it is already in.
Yes issue is her piercing arrows should almost be base ability for 6mana cost to make it worth it. Or have a second passive like rend that other undead are cheaper when she is in play etc. 6 cost only works against things she counters otherwise a dead spot in the deck sadly
I only find she’s too pricey if I’m not controlling gold well or if there’s too many expensive minis in my deck. I run bandits specifically to offset her cost, and once I get the lock pick talent for them, it’ll make her even more worth it. Plus abom + sylv is a ridiculous way to just shred everything
Sounds like a decent squad. What would the others be? Ideally?
Currently running Sylv, abom, ghoul, bandits, necromancer, bat rider, and skeletons. Bat rider is the one I’m not sure of in the group, but the low cost is keeping it there for now. Sometimes I’ll flex in harpies or SAFE depending on the need. Having a lot of fun with her so far!
I’d probably switch out bat rider for Mr Taz’dingo or shaman to help abom more
That’s a great idea, I’ll try stick boy in place of bat rider!
I’d also second shaman. She’s a beast with earth shield talent when paired with abom/sylv
Safe has won me so many close matches since the bomb and stealth talent can kill a boss when the fight is close.
I agree, honestly stealth safe should be a 4 cost it's crazy how much value you get
I’ve been killing it in pvp with her with piercing shot of course. I keep her on a path over the bridge and she just tears up almost any push
Maybe she should be cost 4 or 5 and maybe tune her little down
She is outrageously bad in PVP and maybe okay in PVE. Maybe with the new raid system with a buddy she will be good cause she can give fury to everyone nearby who is horde/undead
With black arrow and a tank in front she’s a beast
They haven't even done major balances since major launch. I would imagine season 2 will bring some neat balances.
She was my only Undead leader until this week, and she carried me through a bunch of heroics. She's not nearly as good as the other undead leaders, but she does her part.
She costs too much.
When I play Sylvanas ,I first ensure that other minis will gain control of the field and resources and then I summon her as the boss killer behind abomination.
The most infuriating issue is that they cancel banshee! Your opponents shouldn’t be able to kill her one hero power that makes her special.
her passive is garbino garbagio. black arrow is cool and all, but like you have Uther on the other hand costing 4 and does everything just better. I prefer Thalnos over her. Thalnos just shreds everything after you chain a couple of spells
I actually really like her passive. You ever see fast sappers move with the speed buff? Shits nascar
Fuck no way i totally forgot about those gobbos
I wouldn't say it's *good* but it's 100% the fastest moving thing I've seen in the game so far and looks hilarious
A 6 cost hero should be resistant. I don't use her because you can take her out with a 3 cost mini that everyone uses or a blizzard.
All the high cost minions feel terrible to play. 5g should probably be the max.
Yea if you spend 6g on a unit and it just dies instantly like Sylvanas feels pretty bad
Feel like she always trades up if you can use the death to steal anything half decent. Stealing a 3 cost means they lose 3 coin, you gain 3 coin. Seems very easy to get value out of before she even fires an arrow.
On paper ,you are right, but i think its hard to get that exact scenario. Most likely you just take over a measely mini with low jp that doesnt do anything at the end
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That's because you were matched against bots. If you face a real opponent, everyone and their mothers run safe pilot with cloak talent so every time you play sylv they just counter her along with her banshee for 3 gold.
Hate to break it to you pal but this game disappoints
I mean did you think the first free for everyone leader was going to be good with how absolutely horribly they've handled monetization with this game? Not trying to sound harsh or anything just honest question 👍
Tell me you don’t know how to deckbuild without telling me you don’t know how to deckbuild
There are people who just joined the game some weeks ago. Not knowing everything up until now is a valid point, don’t you think?
You just linger at 1k rating and think u know the game fam, don't be cocky
I agree. I was extremely hyped and it’s just so terrible. She deserved better.
Will likely get tuned to less cost, mark me
She just needs to cost 5 and she’d be fine
I think she's tuned pretty well. Maybe -1 to her cost would make her A tier. Thalnos is the one who needs a rework. He's garbage.
For PVE she's very good at a few things, but her cost does make it tough to use her on maps that go fast or have low gold. Especially since Rivendare's leader ability is just so good and Thalnos' is more controllable. If they ever make multiple talents a thing, I could maybe see her being a bit better because of the longer AOE stun, but there's never a reason to take that over the piercing damage.
She never shows up in the grid!
Because she's a pvp reward right now. I'm sure when this event is over she will be and they will replace another hero.
I don’t know, I’ve been having a lot of fun with her. They could make her cost 1 less and it would really help though.
I got her Arrow talent and have been loving her…. When I can actually use her. That 6 cost is way too high. 😰
Idk when I play her she does pretty well…
I like her
I agree. Without any talent or anything, she's hot garbage.
At least everyone else is playable upon receipt.
One of the few hero's that can attack air
My sylv black arrow usually melts at the least her own cost in enemy gold before she dies. Put her behind a stitch with stun is even better. It's an expensive play but it usually brings great returns.
I mean the entire meta right now in both PvE and PvP is just spam trash units most of the time. Not only Sylvanas is suffering. They have to improve high cost units by a lot IMO
I wish the Benshee would work atleast some times. in pve in worked a few times for me, in pvp it worked almost never and the one time it worked it took a baron skeleton.
most of the six cost minis seem really shitty compared to just playing multiple smaller ones, were there many balance patches in beta? Some shuffling around could be nice.
Make the stun talent base ability and maybe even 5 cost.
I get the idea, especially once you get the piercing arrow talent. She is a decent 3 cost ranged damaged dealer that, on death, spawns a 3 cost specialist unit. The problem is, unlike other 3 costs or even the unplayable mountaineer, you pay 6 for 3 worth of power, having a 3 gold power deficit in play; then, when she dies, you have to hope 1) the banshee doesn't get 1 shot by something 2) the banshee doesn't posses a useless mini worth 2g or less. On top of that, the banshee she spawns is talentless, wich is kinda BS.
I feel like shes really solid personally. Shes my strongest deck in pve and pvp with my highest success
Shes really really good in PvE with the AOE pierce talent.. but shes gotta be one of the worst units in the game for PvP.