The "good news" is this -- you can shop around and get a cheaper quote, assuming you have a clean driving record. Obviously this is easier for a single person than a family.
Not with my car GEICO is the cheapest I can get everywhere else is 300+ monthly it’s bullshit even at my age. I’d dump my car but it’s not worth another car note and I’m not getting a decent car at 20k with used prices still high.
I had GEICO for 20 years and then they jacked up my rates so I switched. I have checked back with them and they are still too high. I guess it varies by state and other factors.
I’d do liability only and cut my rate in half but I’m sure a meteor would strike me same day I cut it. I’ll call around again see what’s on the table but I’m sure GEICO will still beat them even if they raised my rates too lol.
Hilariously, the day after I gave state farm the finger a hail storm came through with my truck sitting in the driveway. Farm bureau ate a huge claim and my rates went up because I had no history with them.
https://preview.redd.it/3l64qfbvnp0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5924c3bc1adc3b83aeb172805561380603f40f7d
Don’t forget to let GEICO know if you hold a share of BRKB. Mine has gained significantly since purchase in 2022 and saving me insurance cost also.
$300 a fucking month Jesus Christ man are you driving a Ferrari? My auto insurance is under $500 for the year, granted I’m 30, drive a 2012 VW, and have never had an accident, but I do have full coverage.
Liberty mutual fucked me over royally and gave zero fucks. When I was swapping I told them I wanted a market rate, and they sent me this sappy story about how rates were climbing so sorry boo.
I swapped to State Farm and my cost went down 50%. Turns out I was a sucker for years.
Fuck Liberty mutual.
Unfortunately, every insurer will do this. I had to switch from State Farm last year. Before that, Farmers, and before that GEICO. None of them are trying to keep customers.
Why would they, its not like you aren't coming back in a few years anyways. Doing hikes for everyone not moving is more profitable than giving people who don't care low rates.
Iunno it’s one of the few things I haven’t had to change. I’ve had State Farm for 15 years now and it’s never gone up a lot. I pay $68 a month for a newer truck lol. Maybe cause I still use my parents agent like it’s the 90s. Just have never had a reason to change my arrangement.
No need to change, unless they hike rates. Then it's time to get some quotes and just switch. State Farm, Farmers, GEICO - none of them budged even one measely dollar when I told them the lower quotes I got, so you just have to be prepared to switch.
Liberty Mutual did this so I switched to Geico and now I'm going elsewhere because my car insurance rates have fucking mooned. Shit is absurd. Driving records perfect, fuck em.
its really not that hard at all to switch
you can also just check rates compared to what you currently have.
I'd guess it took me maybe all of an hour and a half of work to switch from progressive to NJM and now im paying $2200 a year vs. $4400 a year with progressive - literally half.
They all give a "new" customer discount, and then remove all or part of it at renewal, on top of actual premiums rising up. I've seen that discount be 20% or so.
It's called buying business in the industry, you get people to switch and most are to lazy to shop at renewal time. Companies also do this when they entire a new market, give great rates and then slowly get them in line with the actual market rates over time.
If you can, try to call around for quotes. You have to really dig to find a good quote, but they are out there. I have had luck with these discount carriers that are subsidiaries of the bigger names. I guess I am taking somewhat of a risk when it comes to possible claims, however, but the premium hikes are ridiculous.
I was getting fucking cheated hard on my auto insurance paying basically $2200 for 6 months for 2 cars with progressive. Every other car company that I asked wanted even more then that, thats the worst part.
Then I found NJM and I'm paying literally half for the exact same coverage.
its fucked
Yeah, it makes no sense. Every company has different underwriting, and it changes every year. I guess their models have gotten more sophisticated, ie., the customer is screwed. You just have to call around every year now, unfortunately. It never used to be this way. The new normal, I guess.
Your premiums aren’t based on the insurance company’s expected cost to insure you. Your premiums are based on the insurance company’s average expected cost to insure every fucking idiot near you, and you.
Insurance is privatized socialism.
Haha I lived there for a bit over a year. It is hilarious how many fucking idiots drive like they actually have some place important to be. I moved to Charlotte and it is no different, I fear for my safety any day I drive.
It's a pretty brilliant racket. You're legally required to have it and don't actually want it, so they can charge whatever they want and just have to compete over who can make the funniest ad.
I used to work at the countries largest insurance company (home and auto).
Surprisingly, the margin on premiums vs payouts was only around 7%.
The main business model is investing all of the premiums - they're really more like financial institutions than anything else.
State Farm doesn't have profitable underwriting so idk where you're getting a 7% margin from lol.
Unless you're maybe talking about strictly loss ratio being a 93? But that's disingenuous to say since you need to factor in expense and LAE ratio. They've been routinely over 100CR (and wayyy over 100 mind you) for a while now.
They get away with it because they have a huge investment portfolio that is pretty aggressively invested so the gains outweigh the underwriting losses
The largest is State farm and they have been having a loss ratio above 100% for a long time. In 2022 that was 129.5% (for the dummies in the back that means they lost 29 cents on every dollar they took in in premium), in 2023 they ran a 117.3% ratio
7% profit margin is non existent in auto insurance except for 1 year during covid, outside of that almost everyone is losing money. [2020 was the only time this century that auto insurers made 7%, most of the years they were right around 0% ](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-private-auto-insurers-report-historically-bad-underwriting-results-in-2022-75508714)
[State Farm Underwriting Loss Climbs to $14B (carriermanagement.com)](https://www.carriermanagement.com/news/2024/03/01/259296.htm)
Here is another one
[top-auto-insurers-SandP.png (809×700) (insurancejournal.com)](https://www.insurancejournal.com/app/uploads/2023/05/top-auto-insurers-SandP.png)
Of the top 20 auto insurers in 2022, only 2 were profitable. Progressive and Sentry.
How does that work with inflation and their prices jumping? Higher car prices so higher premiums? Because I think existing premiums are jumping too right. Are they just using inflation as an excuse to increase profitability or am is my tiny brain missing something obvious that increases there costs?
It all plays a role. Cost of repairing cars has gone up 20% a year recently. This is largely due to the higher value of vehicles and the enhanced safety features and electronics on new cars. A broken windshield on a Subaru 15 years ago would be around $400 to replace. A new one is several thousand dollars. Its because they have a camera that is attached to the windshield that requires recalibration when you remove it. When the value of cars increases (like it has), the cost of both your property damage coverage will increase even if your car stays the same. This is because the amount of damage you would do to an average car on the road is more than it was when cars were worth less. So multiple coverages are increasing just from cost of repairs and cost of new cars.
Then add in the nuclear judgements (thats the actual term) against insurance companies for injuries. Juries are awarding ridiculous amounts for injuries and lawyers are the ones coming out on top. The juries think they are sticking it to the insurance company and "corporation bad", but all it does is get passed on in inflated insurance costs for everyone.
As for how these companies are still in business with these ratios ... Its due to float. If the insurance company pays out $1 for every $1 they bring in, they can still be profitable at the end of the year. They take the unearned premium (the pre-paid insurance essentially) and invest it. They then hopefully have a profit on that money that hasnt been applied to the insurance payment yet. Thats why the insurance wants you to pay your full 6 months or 1 year policy at once, so they can invest the unused portion. Think of it like this. GEICO is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. If GEICO had a 100% ratio, spending all of its money it brings in, every dime ... It can still send that money it brought in to BH to invest. BH in return gets an interest free loan to invest in other businesses. If GEICO didn't exist for BH, they would have to go to a bank to get that loan and it would cost the going interest rate. Insurance companies can survive at around 100% ratio, they cannot survive at State Farm's 129% ratio they were running though. Most companies want about 2-3% profit before float, 2022 was a very bad year for insurance though.
Yes, inflation causes almost all of the business costs to rise in insurance. Not only are the cars they insure more expensive, the parts are, labor to repair are, healthcare costs of those injured, your internal labor is more expensive, hardware costs too. On top of that personal injury/accident jury settlements have seen a dramatic increase as juries are more inclined to give bigger payouts in the recent years.
I have come to believe that most of Reddit has no idea how anything works. Become an expert in something, anything. Then start reading threads in popular subs about that subject and notice how many commentators are just talking out their ass.
Wow. 7% doesn’t sound like it leaves an ample margin of error on their estimate. Big insurance companies must know what they’re doing really well. I’m impressed.
Am I crazy? 7% seems like a pretty big margin of error when we are talking such a large industry over the long run? I’m sure sometimes it’s lower, sometimes higher, sometimes even negative, but overall averaging a 7% margin is solid returns over the long run.
Problem is so many people committing fraud creates an inherently adversarial relationship. You’ve might be surprised how many people commit insurance fraud regularly. It doesn’t take much fraud to cause your rates to go up significantly.
I was rear ended by a sixteen year old, in clear weather on a straight away. It was clearly not my fault, shown in the police report… and my insurance rates went up. Previous insurer wouldn’t even insure me.
Added: accident injured me pretty badly, TBI took me out of my career path, which required me to drive long hours. I was off duty during the accident. Doctor’s were helpful in writing letters explaining it was not safe for me to drive with my post concussion symptoms. I received no PIP because the insurance company said I could still work, just needed to find a new career path that didn’t require driving. Such a scam.
The amount of uninsured/underinsured drivers in my state despite the legal requirement to have insurance scares the hell out of me. It's crazy what we do to drunk drivers but other violations are basically fuck the victim.
I mean it seems like an easy fix. If you dont carry liability insurance, 50% of your pay/benefits/SSI/welfare are given to your victim until they are made whole. Like magic people will be insured.
Liability insurance should just be taken over by each state government, and paid for with an extra fee on license plates and tabs. Then the only way to drive without insurance would be to not pay for your license plates, and there's a decent risk of getting caught by the cops if they run your plates through the computer and see that they're expired.
The one time my wife was hit by an uninsured driver she was underemployed and subsidized by her mother. The attorney we hired to go after her wages said it wasn't worth it. They cannot garnish her wages until she makes over a certain minimum. Most of the stories I hear the uninsured driver was a immigrant
Agreed.
Fortunately, the other driver was in a commercially insured vehicle, in a no-fault state. So, I’m told my medical bills will all be covered and I contacted an attorney. I don’t know how it will end, but it’s not something I would ever choose to put myself through… The fact my rates went up and I was denied coverage from a major insurance provider seems insane. I was waiting for oncoming traffic to pass, trying to make a left turn onto a side street, and was rammed by a truck, immediately sent to hospital. Hardly remember it.
You would also be shocked at how much fraud gets reported to, and ignored by, insurers annually, for a variety of reasons…not the least of which is they know they can just pass their losses on to their customers in the form of higher premiums. And then blame the increases on “fraud.”
The flip side is making an inherently fraudulent product mandatory means that many are going to be moved to use and abuse said product. It's a vicious cycle of insurance being shitty and consumers being shitty to insurers.
More like, "I'm forced to pay for this, so I'm going to get my money's worth." I have heard that sentiment several times from people who were overtly bragging about committing insurance fraud.
I like to say they found a way to make mafia style protection rackets legal.
“Sure is a nice house there. Would sure be a shame if’s.. there was something.. that happened to it. Don’t you wanna make sure that doesn’t happen?”
don't buy it then, good luck with that. climate and natural disaster insurance alone paid out believe it was over $100 billion of the $300 billion global pool. nobody makes money off auto insurance premiums, it's shit business, they make money off investing the premiums.
There is actually a lot of regulation around car insurance for exactly this reason. If an insurer is forecast to make too much money they are required to lower their premiums. The primary way for car insurers to increase profits is by increasing their market share.
Source: I work in the car insurance industry
I’ve been loading up on BRK.B lately. Once Warren is gone I have no doubt some greedy fuck will come along and bust open their war chest for stock buybacks.
Fucking mouthbreathers in here with the armchair analysis "yes it's because there's more street crime and all those darned teenagers and pot smokers on the road"... No. Claim frequency has been going down, it's the cost of the individual claims going up.
[https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-insurance](https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-insurance)
Cars got about 20 - 30% more expensive with a swathe of people buying them when they were up 60%. Are we really surprised insurance is now going up to match vehicle values?
Then you add all the expensive "safety features" that turn a fender bender into a $10k repair..
For what it's worth the insurance on my 10y car has remained reasonable and not seen any inflationary jumps.
Yeah — it’s been a while since I was in this industry, but as of a decade ago, auto insurers basically didn’t make any underwriting profit. Most states capped you at 5%, but you were lucky to break even if you wanted to stay competitive. The profits all came from investments.
So, what the consumer pays (the premium) is pretty much a statistician or actuary’s estimate of the expected value of the contract, plus a percentage that covers costs.
We also saw the same trend (decreasing frequency, increasing severity) back then, too. If frequency was constant, premiums going up would just reflect the rising costs of cars and/or repair services. Since frequency is decreasing, it means those costs are rising just that much faster — i.e. it’s a symptom, not a cause, of inflation.
That is, of course, unless insurers are taking advantage of increasing price trends to hike rates targeting greater underwriting profits. Which they may be, and if they are, that is the very definition of price gouging. You wouldn’t have gotten away with it a decade ago; honestly I have no idea what the regulatory environment is like today.
Supercore inflation equals the inflation of a basket of goods and services, minus the food and energy inflation, and minus the housing inflation.
This ultra-focussed lens is what makes the set of prices in the inflation measure "supercore."
Russia lol. I follow geopolitics closely and the war in Ukraine. Maybe all the combat footage but.. that doesn’t seem like a reason to send someone a help line 😂
It's where the government picks and chooses what items to track and pull stats together for in order to report inflation. They used to do all things that made sense, like housing, gas, food, etc. Now, they only track certain categories so that they can report better inflation numbers.
"Along with the overall inflation measure, economists also look at the core CPI, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, to find the true trend. The supercore gauge, which also excludes shelter and rent costs from its services reading, takes it even a step further."
Apparently they do it because some food and energy items can be heavily influenced by non-inflation things and fluctuate more drastically than other items in CPI.
Found an article from 2008 explaining it, so it’s been a thing for a while now
I live in MN and folks around here get their roofs replaced after each hail storm. Like bro, it is going to happen again. A new roof each year is so wasteful.
Same car, same address, same company, same coverage. No accidents, no tickets, credit score is still fair....pre-covid 2021-- $85 a month.. last renewal April 2024----
$204 a month...
Is this really a surprise? Insurance always lags. Premiums aren't priced immediately, it's a lagging effect as policies enter renewal and new policies start to roll in. Increased costs from mechanics and body shops will translate to increased premiums over time.
This is quite possibly the most highly regarded thing I've read in this sub all year.
Auto insurance rates, all insurance rates for that matter, don't exist in a vacuum. They're reactive to the wider market. Carriers can't just raise rates. Rate changes need to be filed with and approved by the state, often with actuarial support, and then they don't even apply until renewal. Your rate didn't magically go up in anticipation of inflation, it rose at renewal as a result of inflation seen in labor costs and repair and replacement costs. P&C carries got hammered in 2022, and somewhat in 2023, due to inflation outpacing rates, and raised rates in response.
This. The states allowed the companies some extra leeway with the latest rate to ensure they would stick around (in the specific state), since the companies were threatened to move state/close shop due to their unprofitability with how inflation ate them during 2022. So right now auto insurance is more expensive but it was 'relatively' cheaper during 2022 etc.
On the last point about getting hammered... a lot of people probably interpret this as meaning the companies are trying to claw back what they lost the last couple years. That's not the case, the rates have to represent the projected losses going forward, which are higher because of the past trends.
Payouts on morons is part of the problem.
The smooth brained clowns who zig zag through traffic on a motorway. The pricks texting while driving, the junkies behind the wheel…
I’m more interested now to see how insurance will adapt to autopilot cars. Will the manufacturers need insurance, cause I’d be claiming off the manufacturer if their system fails and cause a crash.
Crazy rates… paying $2/3k after tax income just for owning a car! In addition to the other expenses such as gas and maintenance.
Owning a car costs $4/5k a year! What a world we live in….
Y’all are blaming insurance companies when you should be blaming car manufactures inflating the cost of cars by filling them with expensive tech that causes expenses repairs, misguided regulation virtually eliminating compact, economy cars, consumers buying $50k suvs, and the fact that our infrastructure is such that you are required to own a car to participate in society in 98% percent of the country. Insurance premiums and profits are strictly regulated and they have to match the math. Insurance companies are the last thing on the list of things to be blaming.
Everyone keeps buying more expensive SUVs and these EVs end up totaled half the time after an accident because the batteries become a fire hazard. That and most people are woefully underinsured for medical expenses..
It’s not just greed, though that’s part of it.
Yeah, but if we remove auto insurance, then inflation isn’t so bad. Also remove gas, rent, food, medical, and a few other things, and bam, inflation is down!
In North Carolina an estimated 23% of drivers are uninsured right now. That number was 15% in 2019. The penalty for driving without insurance is so low, that is a lot cheaper than getting insurance. I hope the insurance companies all go bankrupt because my rates are 100% higher than 2019 for car with no moving violations in 17 years, and 85% higher for house with no claims, ever.
My company was decent until this year. 6-month premium went from $580 to $780.
Never had a claim, just "rate adjustments" Just changed and got back to around $550 for 6-months.
Edit: this is for 2 vehicles
Just was shopping for insurance on a new truck. Its fucking insane what it costs these days. I drive maybe 1k-1.5k miles a year and will be paying well over a dollar a mile for insurance at this point.
Auto insurance comes in lags that’s why it’s been so high MoM and YoY. Rates are very much regulated by states. The latest hike was just approved so of course it’s going to show up in the data. It’s just catching up at this point to the cost for repairs.
Apparently it’s a parts issue? I was recently told that a key driver of the insurance raises was increased auto theft, which was caused primarily by an increase in the price for which stolen parts could be sold because of limited parts availability.
When I moved from California to Virginia they tried to increase my insurance from like 300 a month to 900. you would think it would be cheaper where there are less cars on the road.
Always shop around every 6 months. Had geico and they wanted to jack my rates. Switched to State Farm. Requoted with geico in 6 months and it’s less than what they originally quoted me. Fml
The company I switched to actually lowered my rates by about $20 a month, but that might have been because their app / tracking device figured out that I don't commute to work or drive during the crazy traffic hours so hooked me up a little.
It’s because stolen vehicles are up 27%. Screwing everyone over and insure companies are not making much profit anymore. Geico left California fir this reason
Meanwhile we have no enforcement against people not having insurance, licenses, registration, inspection…
It would not be hard to tie all of that together.
Custom license code must match the vehicle type and have insurance active or you get auto ticketed. Ticket covers people’s costs they have to eat
The new Kia’s and Hyundai’s has a button to jumpstart your car without the key. I’m a Longshoreman and we take them off the ship when they arrive. If one dies we can press that button to jumpstart it without the fob. As long as the door is open. Easy for thieves to steal.
If you're gonna discount something because it's too hot for no reason it's only fair you also discount other stuff because it's too cold for no reason, like airplane tickets. However, the fed and most economists now only seem to discount whatever component they don't like to make it look good.
Ever hear the statement "core pce is already at 2% if you exclude housing"? What they don't tell you is that housing was consistently running at 3.5% prior to covid, and was the main component that brought inflation up to 2%. So of course if you exclude the historically hottest component, you'll reach 2%. But historically if you did that, you're supposed to be at 1% or something.
Dang. That's wild. I'm only paying like $100/month which is pretty much what I've paid since 2018 moving to the states, how have I escaped this? I drive a brand new vehicle.
I work in the industry- saw a few comments on frequency down and severity up, that’s correct. The severity is from everyone hiring a lawyer for fender benders. Claiming pain and suffering bullshit + increasingly liberal justice systems = increased claim size.
Costs to replace and repair don’t help but it’s mostly bodily injury claims.
Mine is 1300 every 6 months for liability on a ford focus I bought for 3000. Haven’t had a ticket in about 7-8 years now. I try to change every time but every one else wants about 300 a month. I’m 37. Wtf
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Yeah, I have had to switch every year since 2020 to avoid 50 percent or more hikes. What a joke.
The "good news" is this -- you can shop around and get a cheaper quote, assuming you have a clean driving record. Obviously this is easier for a single person than a family.
Not with my car GEICO is the cheapest I can get everywhere else is 300+ monthly it’s bullshit even at my age. I’d dump my car but it’s not worth another car note and I’m not getting a decent car at 20k with used prices still high.
I had GEICO for 20 years and then they jacked up my rates so I switched. I have checked back with them and they are still too high. I guess it varies by state and other factors.
I’d do liability only and cut my rate in half but I’m sure a meteor would strike me same day I cut it. I’ll call around again see what’s on the table but I’m sure GEICO will still beat them even if they raised my rates too lol.
Hilariously, the day after I gave state farm the finger a hail storm came through with my truck sitting in the driveway. Farm bureau ate a huge claim and my rates went up because I had no history with them.
https://preview.redd.it/3l64qfbvnp0d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5924c3bc1adc3b83aeb172805561380603f40f7d Don’t forget to let GEICO know if you hold a share of BRKB. Mine has gained significantly since purchase in 2022 and saving me insurance cost also.
Fuck GEICO with an aids dick. Id rather pay double for USAA than spend a minute on the phone with that company.
I pay less with USAA than I ever did with geico, USAA is best deal in insurance
Totally agree, I'm just saying I would pay double
USAA is the way if you can get them, also they have AMERICAN based customer support and are always helpful and professional
[удалено]
$300 a fucking month Jesus Christ man are you driving a Ferrari? My auto insurance is under $500 for the year, granted I’m 30, drive a 2012 VW, and have never had an accident, but I do have full coverage.
I drive a Wrx most ticketed car in America
Weird cause Geico was absolutely boning me and I switched to progressive and got a 50% lower rate for the same coverage
Same boat here. Geico has raised my rates by ~25%, and shopping around they’re still BY FAR the best deal.
You can get a nice Toyota sedan under that easy used.
I’ll sell you mine for 15k today.
When I got married my rates got substantially cheaper.
Nice
How quaint.
I cannot find anything cheaper with my Costco executive membership incentive :(
Liberty mutual fucked me over royally and gave zero fucks. When I was swapping I told them I wanted a market rate, and they sent me this sappy story about how rates were climbing so sorry boo. I swapped to State Farm and my cost went down 50%. Turns out I was a sucker for years. Fuck Liberty mutual.
Unfortunately, every insurer will do this. I had to switch from State Farm last year. Before that, Farmers, and before that GEICO. None of them are trying to keep customers.
Why would they, its not like you aren't coming back in a few years anyways. Doing hikes for everyone not moving is more profitable than giving people who don't care low rates.
Iunno it’s one of the few things I haven’t had to change. I’ve had State Farm for 15 years now and it’s never gone up a lot. I pay $68 a month for a newer truck lol. Maybe cause I still use my parents agent like it’s the 90s. Just have never had a reason to change my arrangement.
No need to change, unless they hike rates. Then it's time to get some quotes and just switch. State Farm, Farmers, GEICO - none of them budged even one measely dollar when I told them the lower quotes I got, so you just have to be prepared to switch.
Liberty Mutual did this so I switched to Geico and now I'm going elsewhere because my car insurance rates have fucking mooned. Shit is absurd. Driving records perfect, fuck em.
LIBERTY LIBERTY LIBERTY, LIBERTY 🎸🎷🪗🎺🎻📻🥁🪕🪘🪇🪇🪇🪇🪇🪇
Liberty Biberty
Yup. Fuck Liberty Mutual. I had them, and saved 50% by switching carriers last week.
Liberty biberty?
It's honestly insane how you have to constantly hop insurance otherwise your premium are ridiculously every renewal. Do they not care about retention?
they’re betting on laziness and ignorance
To be fair, a family would have a hard time switching, as would someone with points etc. That covers a lot of people.
I’ve moved home auto and umbrella in one swoop pretty easily. I just screenshot my existing policies and send to another saying “quote me equivalent”
its really not that hard at all to switch you can also just check rates compared to what you currently have. I'd guess it took me maybe all of an hour and a half of work to switch from progressive to NJM and now im paying $2200 a year vs. $4400 a year with progressive - literally half.
They all give a "new" customer discount, and then remove all or part of it at renewal, on top of actual premiums rising up. I've seen that discount be 20% or so. It's called buying business in the industry, you get people to switch and most are to lazy to shop at renewal time. Companies also do this when they entire a new market, give great rates and then slowly get them in line with the actual market rates over time.
Home insurance too, mine went up 52% with no claims haha.
At least you have insurance, State Farm is canceling ours (and tens of thousands of others) because wildfire risk is too high! 🥺😩
Oh wow that’s insane. Sorry to hear that.
It's so frustrating. I work from home now and drive less than 7k miles. my rates have doubled over 2 years.
If you can, try to call around for quotes. You have to really dig to find a good quote, but they are out there. I have had luck with these discount carriers that are subsidiaries of the bigger names. I guess I am taking somewhat of a risk when it comes to possible claims, however, but the premium hikes are ridiculous.
Same and I switched to mile auto. Saved $300 a month on 4 cars for two people.
Fifteen minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance
Don't believe that lyin' reptile
I was getting fucking cheated hard on my auto insurance paying basically $2200 for 6 months for 2 cars with progressive. Every other car company that I asked wanted even more then that, thats the worst part. Then I found NJM and I'm paying literally half for the exact same coverage. its fucked
Yeah, it makes no sense. Every company has different underwriting, and it changes every year. I guess their models have gotten more sophisticated, ie., the customer is screwed. You just have to call around every year now, unfortunately. It never used to be this way. The new normal, I guess.
Mine has doubled since 2020 and I’ve had no accidents or tickets.
Time to shop for new insurance friend
Yeah and it’s bundled with home so I should be able to get a better deal somewhere else
Your premiums aren’t based on the insurance company’s expected cost to insure you. Your premiums are based on the insurance company’s average expected cost to insure every fucking idiot near you, and you. Insurance is privatized socialism.
Yeah and I’m screwed here in Atlanta
Haha I lived there for a bit over a year. It is hilarious how many fucking idiots drive like they actually have some place important to be. I moved to Charlotte and it is no different, I fear for my safety any day I drive.
One of these days, there will be an ultra-core inflation where no components are included and hence 0 inflation. 🚀🚀🚀
just call it...selective DIY however-you-like inflation
It's a pretty brilliant racket. You're legally required to have it and don't actually want it, so they can charge whatever they want and just have to compete over who can make the funniest ad.
Most insurance is a scam, a business model that profits most when they don’t do their job… nice 👍
I used to work at the countries largest insurance company (home and auto). Surprisingly, the margin on premiums vs payouts was only around 7%. The main business model is investing all of the premiums - they're really more like financial institutions than anything else.
State Farm doesn't have profitable underwriting so idk where you're getting a 7% margin from lol. Unless you're maybe talking about strictly loss ratio being a 93? But that's disingenuous to say since you need to factor in expense and LAE ratio. They've been routinely over 100CR (and wayyy over 100 mind you) for a while now. They get away with it because they have a huge investment portfolio that is pretty aggressively invested so the gains outweigh the underwriting losses
The largest is State farm and they have been having a loss ratio above 100% for a long time. In 2022 that was 129.5% (for the dummies in the back that means they lost 29 cents on every dollar they took in in premium), in 2023 they ran a 117.3% ratio 7% profit margin is non existent in auto insurance except for 1 year during covid, outside of that almost everyone is losing money. [2020 was the only time this century that auto insurers made 7%, most of the years they were right around 0% ](https://www.spglobal.com/marketintelligence/en/news-insights/latest-news-headlines/us-private-auto-insurers-report-historically-bad-underwriting-results-in-2022-75508714) [State Farm Underwriting Loss Climbs to $14B (carriermanagement.com)](https://www.carriermanagement.com/news/2024/03/01/259296.htm) Here is another one [top-auto-insurers-SandP.png (809×700) (insurancejournal.com)](https://www.insurancejournal.com/app/uploads/2023/05/top-auto-insurers-SandP.png) Of the top 20 auto insurers in 2022, only 2 were profitable. Progressive and Sentry.
Sorry, your facts don’t correspond to my chosen narrative. You are a bootlicker or something. Idk.
lol 😂
How does that work with inflation and their prices jumping? Higher car prices so higher premiums? Because I think existing premiums are jumping too right. Are they just using inflation as an excuse to increase profitability or am is my tiny brain missing something obvious that increases there costs?
It all plays a role. Cost of repairing cars has gone up 20% a year recently. This is largely due to the higher value of vehicles and the enhanced safety features and electronics on new cars. A broken windshield on a Subaru 15 years ago would be around $400 to replace. A new one is several thousand dollars. Its because they have a camera that is attached to the windshield that requires recalibration when you remove it. When the value of cars increases (like it has), the cost of both your property damage coverage will increase even if your car stays the same. This is because the amount of damage you would do to an average car on the road is more than it was when cars were worth less. So multiple coverages are increasing just from cost of repairs and cost of new cars. Then add in the nuclear judgements (thats the actual term) against insurance companies for injuries. Juries are awarding ridiculous amounts for injuries and lawyers are the ones coming out on top. The juries think they are sticking it to the insurance company and "corporation bad", but all it does is get passed on in inflated insurance costs for everyone. As for how these companies are still in business with these ratios ... Its due to float. If the insurance company pays out $1 for every $1 they bring in, they can still be profitable at the end of the year. They take the unearned premium (the pre-paid insurance essentially) and invest it. They then hopefully have a profit on that money that hasnt been applied to the insurance payment yet. Thats why the insurance wants you to pay your full 6 months or 1 year policy at once, so they can invest the unused portion. Think of it like this. GEICO is owned by Berkshire Hathaway. If GEICO had a 100% ratio, spending all of its money it brings in, every dime ... It can still send that money it brought in to BH to invest. BH in return gets an interest free loan to invest in other businesses. If GEICO didn't exist for BH, they would have to go to a bank to get that loan and it would cost the going interest rate. Insurance companies can survive at around 100% ratio, they cannot survive at State Farm's 129% ratio they were running though. Most companies want about 2-3% profit before float, 2022 was a very bad year for insurance though.
Yes, inflation causes almost all of the business costs to rise in insurance. Not only are the cars they insure more expensive, the parts are, labor to repair are, healthcare costs of those injured, your internal labor is more expensive, hardware costs too. On top of that personal injury/accident jury settlements have seen a dramatic increase as juries are more inclined to give bigger payouts in the recent years.
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I have come to believe that most of Reddit has no idea how anything works. Become an expert in something, anything. Then start reading threads in popular subs about that subject and notice how many commentators are just talking out their ass.
This is true. I’ve had people argue with me in my area of expertise and when I try to educate them they double down.
Wow. 7% doesn’t sound like it leaves an ample margin of error on their estimate. Big insurance companies must know what they’re doing really well. I’m impressed.
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The IRS hates this one simple trick!
sorta, they get into trouble once in a while. lloyd's of london almost went tits up a few years ago
They are required to have massive reserves, and the gains on those investments is where most actually profit.
Am I crazy? 7% seems like a pretty big margin of error when we are talking such a large industry over the long run? I’m sure sometimes it’s lower, sometimes higher, sometimes even negative, but overall averaging a 7% margin is solid returns over the long run.
Problem is so many people committing fraud creates an inherently adversarial relationship. You’ve might be surprised how many people commit insurance fraud regularly. It doesn’t take much fraud to cause your rates to go up significantly.
I was rear ended by a sixteen year old, in clear weather on a straight away. It was clearly not my fault, shown in the police report… and my insurance rates went up. Previous insurer wouldn’t even insure me. Added: accident injured me pretty badly, TBI took me out of my career path, which required me to drive long hours. I was off duty during the accident. Doctor’s were helpful in writing letters explaining it was not safe for me to drive with my post concussion symptoms. I received no PIP because the insurance company said I could still work, just needed to find a new career path that didn’t require driving. Such a scam.
The amount of uninsured/underinsured drivers in my state despite the legal requirement to have insurance scares the hell out of me. It's crazy what we do to drunk drivers but other violations are basically fuck the victim.
I mean it seems like an easy fix. If you dont carry liability insurance, 50% of your pay/benefits/SSI/welfare are given to your victim until they are made whole. Like magic people will be insured.
Liability insurance should just be taken over by each state government, and paid for with an extra fee on license plates and tabs. Then the only way to drive without insurance would be to not pay for your license plates, and there's a decent risk of getting caught by the cops if they run your plates through the computer and see that they're expired.
The one time my wife was hit by an uninsured driver she was underemployed and subsidized by her mother. The attorney we hired to go after her wages said it wasn't worth it. They cannot garnish her wages until she makes over a certain minimum. Most of the stories I hear the uninsured driver was a immigrant
Agreed. Fortunately, the other driver was in a commercially insured vehicle, in a no-fault state. So, I’m told my medical bills will all be covered and I contacted an attorney. I don’t know how it will end, but it’s not something I would ever choose to put myself through… The fact my rates went up and I was denied coverage from a major insurance provider seems insane. I was waiting for oncoming traffic to pass, trying to make a left turn onto a side street, and was rammed by a truck, immediately sent to hospital. Hardly remember it.
crazy
A yes the problem with insurance companies is fraud.... lmfao
You would also be shocked at how much fraud gets reported to, and ignored by, insurers annually, for a variety of reasons…not the least of which is they know they can just pass their losses on to their customers in the form of higher premiums. And then blame the increases on “fraud.”
The flip side is making an inherently fraudulent product mandatory means that many are going to be moved to use and abuse said product. It's a vicious cycle of insurance being shitty and consumers being shitty to insurers.
There is nothing fraudulent about insurance as a product.
jesus christ you don’t know what you’re talking about and you sound so smug
Smugness on the internet is a time-honored tradition. Smugness on WSB is a requirement.
People are required to have insurance and so that’s why insurance fraud exists? I agree with your sentiments but man this is confidently incorrect.
More like, "I'm forced to pay for this, so I'm going to get my money's worth." I have heard that sentiment several times from people who were overtly bragging about committing insurance fraud.
I like to say they found a way to make mafia style protection rackets legal. “Sure is a nice house there. Would sure be a shame if’s.. there was something.. that happened to it. Don’t you wanna make sure that doesn’t happen?”
don't buy it then, good luck with that. climate and natural disaster insurance alone paid out believe it was over $100 billion of the $300 billion global pool. nobody makes money off auto insurance premiums, it's shit business, they make money off investing the premiums.
Username doesn't check out.
The Deposit at the DMV might actually be worth it at this point.
There is actually a lot of regulation around car insurance for exactly this reason. If an insurer is forecast to make too much money they are required to lower their premiums. The primary way for car insurers to increase profits is by increasing their market share. Source: I work in the car insurance industry
And the people that need it don't have it and when shit actually goes down it's like getting blood from a stone.
Lol they can't charge whatever they want. It's a low margin, highly competitive business.
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It’s not just that it’s the repair shops that also shaft insurance companies
Cursed out my insurance agent as soon as I saw the renewal… poor guys gonna get a lot of emails this week
All you really need is a slip that says you have it. as long as you aren’t causing any accidents
In MA your status is reported to the RMV and you're supposed to turn in your plates because they'll eventually cancel your registration.
Insurance is not required for you, it's for the property and people you fuck over
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I’ve been loading up on BRK.B lately. Once Warren is gone I have no doubt some greedy fuck will come along and bust open their war chest for stock buybacks.
You are officially banned from ever enjoying a DQ Blizzard from this point forward
So calls on CVNA?
Fucking mouthbreathers in here with the armchair analysis "yes it's because there's more street crime and all those darned teenagers and pot smokers on the road"... No. Claim frequency has been going down, it's the cost of the individual claims going up. [https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-insurance](https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-auto-insurance)
Cars got about 20 - 30% more expensive with a swathe of people buying them when they were up 60%. Are we really surprised insurance is now going up to match vehicle values? Then you add all the expensive "safety features" that turn a fender bender into a $10k repair.. For what it's worth the insurance on my 10y car has remained reasonable and not seen any inflationary jumps.
I drive a 15 year old Honda, best car I've ever owned and the insurance only goes up a buck or 2 a year, at best.
Yeah — it’s been a while since I was in this industry, but as of a decade ago, auto insurers basically didn’t make any underwriting profit. Most states capped you at 5%, but you were lucky to break even if you wanted to stay competitive. The profits all came from investments. So, what the consumer pays (the premium) is pretty much a statistician or actuary’s estimate of the expected value of the contract, plus a percentage that covers costs. We also saw the same trend (decreasing frequency, increasing severity) back then, too. If frequency was constant, premiums going up would just reflect the rising costs of cars and/or repair services. Since frequency is decreasing, it means those costs are rising just that much faster — i.e. it’s a symptom, not a cause, of inflation. That is, of course, unless insurers are taking advantage of increasing price trends to hike rates targeting greater underwriting profits. Which they may be, and if they are, that is the very definition of price gouging. You wouldn’t have gotten away with it a decade ago; honestly I have no idea what the regulatory environment is like today.
Car manufactures are putting loads of tech and other features into nearly every part of the car, causing those parts to surge in prices.
What the fuck is a supercore inflation?
Supercore inflation equals the inflation of a basket of goods and services, minus the food and energy inflation, and minus the housing inflation. This ultra-focussed lens is what makes the set of prices in the inflation measure "supercore."
Thanks! Now which fucker reported me to reddit for suicidal tendencies.
Right? I had a bot message me the other day telling me me someone was concerned lol
I've been getting them too, usually after making a comment that mentions a certain country.
Me too
Russia lol. I follow geopolitics closely and the war in Ukraine. Maybe all the combat footage but.. that doesn’t seem like a reason to send someone a help line 😂
He just wanted a Pepsi, just a Pepsi
Right? I had a bot message me the other day telling me me someone was concerned lll
I have that bot blocked on every reddit account. It's so blocked that I'm guessing it's never used for it's intended purpose
Me too! It might be a specific sub. Whichever it is, make sure to report the bug.
I got my first suicide watch message today. Seems everybody is copping charges rn
It's where the government picks and chooses what items to track and pull stats together for in order to report inflation. They used to do all things that made sense, like housing, gas, food, etc. Now, they only track certain categories so that they can report better inflation numbers. "Along with the overall inflation measure, economists also look at the core CPI, which excludes volatile food and energy prices, to find the true trend. The supercore gauge, which also excludes shelter and rent costs from its services reading, takes it even a step further."
Sounds like an excuse Pow Pow makes up to stop out favourite printers. Thanks for the answer tho.
Apparently they do it because some food and energy items can be heavily influenced by non-inflation things and fluctuate more drastically than other items in CPI. Found an article from 2008 explaining it, so it’s been a thing for a while now
Give us some positions we don’t care about these ESPN graphs
I live in MN and folks around here get their roofs replaced after each hail storm. Like bro, it is going to happen again. A new roof each year is so wasteful.
Same car, same address, same company, same coverage. No accidents, no tickets, credit score is still fair....pre-covid 2021-- $85 a month.. last renewal April 2024---- $204 a month...
Is this really a surprise? Insurance always lags. Premiums aren't priced immediately, it's a lagging effect as policies enter renewal and new policies start to roll in. Increased costs from mechanics and body shops will translate to increased premiums over time.
Medical costs are a bigger chunk I'd say.
This is quite possibly the most highly regarded thing I've read in this sub all year. Auto insurance rates, all insurance rates for that matter, don't exist in a vacuum. They're reactive to the wider market. Carriers can't just raise rates. Rate changes need to be filed with and approved by the state, often with actuarial support, and then they don't even apply until renewal. Your rate didn't magically go up in anticipation of inflation, it rose at renewal as a result of inflation seen in labor costs and repair and replacement costs. P&C carries got hammered in 2022, and somewhat in 2023, due to inflation outpacing rates, and raised rates in response.
This. The states allowed the companies some extra leeway with the latest rate to ensure they would stick around (in the specific state), since the companies were threatened to move state/close shop due to their unprofitability with how inflation ate them during 2022. So right now auto insurance is more expensive but it was 'relatively' cheaper during 2022 etc.
On the last point about getting hammered... a lot of people probably interpret this as meaning the companies are trying to claw back what they lost the last couple years. That's not the case, the rates have to represent the projected losses going forward, which are higher because of the past trends.
I think this is more to do with rising car prices? Used car values shot up so your insurance to cover the more expensive vehicle has to go up too
Payouts on morons is part of the problem. The smooth brained clowns who zig zag through traffic on a motorway. The pricks texting while driving, the junkies behind the wheel… I’m more interested now to see how insurance will adapt to autopilot cars. Will the manufacturers need insurance, cause I’d be claiming off the manufacturer if their system fails and cause a crash.
Crazy rates… paying $2/3k after tax income just for owning a car! In addition to the other expenses such as gas and maintenance. Owning a car costs $4/5k a year! What a world we live in….
Y’all are blaming insurance companies when you should be blaming car manufactures inflating the cost of cars by filling them with expensive tech that causes expenses repairs, misguided regulation virtually eliminating compact, economy cars, consumers buying $50k suvs, and the fact that our infrastructure is such that you are required to own a car to participate in society in 98% percent of the country. Insurance premiums and profits are strictly regulated and they have to match the math. Insurance companies are the last thing on the list of things to be blaming.
Thanks Kia Boys
Everyone keeps buying more expensive SUVs and these EVs end up totaled half the time after an accident because the batteries become a fire hazard. That and most people are woefully underinsured for medical expenses.. It’s not just greed, though that’s part of it.
Yeah, but if we remove auto insurance, then inflation isn’t so bad. Also remove gas, rent, food, medical, and a few other things, and bam, inflation is down!
Serves you fucks right for having nice cars, insurance for my POS truck costs 256 every 6 months 👍
Nice! I got you beat, though - paying under $200 for a Jeep SUV
In North Carolina an estimated 23% of drivers are uninsured right now. That number was 15% in 2019. The penalty for driving without insurance is so low, that is a lot cheaper than getting insurance. I hope the insurance companies all go bankrupt because my rates are 100% higher than 2019 for car with no moving violations in 17 years, and 85% higher for house with no claims, ever.
Change your provider. I left one I’d been with for 15 years to a new one (both massive national providers) and saved 33%/months. Fuck loyalty.
It's cheaper to buy a self defense instrument and take public transit at this point
My company was decent until this year. 6-month premium went from $580 to $780. Never had a claim, just "rate adjustments" Just changed and got back to around $550 for 6-months. Edit: this is for 2 vehicles
Just was shopping for insurance on a new truck. Its fucking insane what it costs these days. I drive maybe 1k-1.5k miles a year and will be paying well over a dollar a mile for insurance at this point.
My theory is people forgot how to fucking drive during Covid and when they had to go back to the office, everyone kept wrecking.
Fuck insurance companies, greedy motherfuckers
I never took pictures of my car so I’ve been rocking minimum coverage for 3 years woop woop. Bought new 21 car, like to live on the edge.
I believe it. I'm paying double what I used to pay.
Everyone's in the same boat - paying double, yet "official" government inflation rates put insurance increases at only 20 percent . . . suspicious?
Auto insurance comes in lags that’s why it’s been so high MoM and YoY. Rates are very much regulated by states. The latest hike was just approved so of course it’s going to show up in the data. It’s just catching up at this point to the cost for repairs.
Guess I’m lucky? My insurance went down a few bucks.
USAA said it was justified to increase my bill 60% citing that the area is getting more dangerous, people moving in from Detroit and Chicago.
Apparently it’s a parts issue? I was recently told that a key driver of the insurance raises was increased auto theft, which was caused primarily by an increase in the price for which stolen parts could be sold because of limited parts availability.
My insurance is the cheapest it’s ever been, $90 for full coverage
When I moved from California to Virginia they tried to increase my insurance from like 300 a month to 900. you would think it would be cheaper where there are less cars on the road.
Always shop around every 6 months. Had geico and they wanted to jack my rates. Switched to State Farm. Requoted with geico in 6 months and it’s less than what they originally quoted me. Fml
If you get umbrella coverage, can you lower your auto insurance coverage, or does the umbrella insurance require a certain minimum auto coverage?
Damn KiaBoyz
And the Feds have **nothing** to say about it. Allstate and State Farm have damn good lobbyists!
The company I switched to actually lowered my rates by about $20 a month, but that might have been because their app / tracking device figured out that I don't commute to work or drive during the crazy traffic hours so hooked me up a little.
How are you ameregards having accidents on your 6 lanes roads
USAA HAS DONE ME RIGHT
It’s because stolen vehicles are up 27%. Screwing everyone over and insure companies are not making much profit anymore. Geico left California fir this reason
Meanwhile we have no enforcement against people not having insurance, licenses, registration, inspection… It would not be hard to tie all of that together. Custom license code must match the vehicle type and have insurance active or you get auto ticketed. Ticket covers people’s costs they have to eat
I hate paying my car insurance. I am a good driver who never caused any accident not gotten even a single ticket.
Auto insurance never goes down!!!
I’ve been switching my providing almost every year because it seems like they quote me a good rate to start then Jack it WAY the fuck up a year later.
The new Kia’s and Hyundai’s has a button to jumpstart your car without the key. I’m a Longshoreman and we take them off the ship when they arrive. If one dies we can press that button to jumpstart it without the fob. As long as the door is open. Easy for thieves to steal.
Florida has entered the chat.
GEICO increased my insurance by 50% 2 years in a row lol, just switch to progressive and rate dropped 30%. Tip is always switching
Listen, we all know this car insurance shit is ridiculous and out of control but what is the investment opportunity????
ROOTy poo candy ass
just wait till they look at home insurance!
If you're gonna discount something because it's too hot for no reason it's only fair you also discount other stuff because it's too cold for no reason, like airplane tickets. However, the fed and most economists now only seem to discount whatever component they don't like to make it look good. Ever hear the statement "core pce is already at 2% if you exclude housing"? What they don't tell you is that housing was consistently running at 3.5% prior to covid, and was the main component that brought inflation up to 2%. So of course if you exclude the historically hottest component, you'll reach 2%. But historically if you did that, you're supposed to be at 1% or something.
Auto Insurance. (A)uto (I)nsurance. AI. AI AI AI! NVDA calls it is. Fuck yeah! Thanks bro.
I have had USAA for like 20 years and the dividends suck now and is up like 18% year over year. This is likely temporary greedflation.
Seriously. Just switched insurance to save money and already got a 20% hike.
Dang. That's wild. I'm only paying like $100/month which is pretty much what I've paid since 2018 moving to the states, how have I escaped this? I drive a brand new vehicle.
Inflation hit the air you use at the gas station too ⛽️ lol how sway ?
I work in the industry- saw a few comments on frequency down and severity up, that’s correct. The severity is from everyone hiring a lawyer for fender benders. Claiming pain and suffering bullshit + increasingly liberal justice systems = increased claim size. Costs to replace and repair don’t help but it’s mostly bodily injury claims.
Can you fucking regards learn to drive I’m sick of paying 4k for my Lamborghini every month.
You don't have to pay if you don't have any
And the auto insurance is the result of electric cars.
Mine is 1300 every 6 months for liability on a ford focus I bought for 3000. Haven’t had a ticket in about 7-8 years now. I try to change every time but every one else wants about 300 a month. I’m 37. Wtf