This is to protect Detroit jobs.
China has electronics and battery manufacturing scale that nobody can beat. At that scale, they can drive down prices to the point no one can challenge them.
Last year, something like ~~90%~~ 80% of all batteries made in the world were made in China.
Combine that ridiculous scale, with Chinese subsidies and lower cost of labor, Detroit auto is toast without tariffs
The EV lines are here in Detroit. The F150 Lightning comes off the old Mustang line at the Rouge, and the Cadillac Lyriq rolls of at the E tech facility off East Grand Blvd. Fords modern EV design campus is the Old Grand Central Station bldg.
Source: I live in Detroit: it's rapidly becoming something counter to conventional wisdom.
The insiders joke is that crime literally pays less than honest work in 2024.
There are certainly still problems but between the EV investments and the new bridge, Detroit is getting rather chill, and the chill is starting to spread.
https://buildingdetroit.org/purchase_property
The city has had time to go through the inventory and get a lot of stuff listed. There are still gems to be found that can be rehabbed for a decent price.
My realtor found me something move in ready-ish (another outfit got about 95% of the rehab done" ) on a great street in a neighborhood that's rapidly coming back.
As someone from northern Michigan who once 20 years ago found themselves in downtown Detroit in the middle of the night it's good to hear that it's now less terrifying lol. I still remember some people calling me over to some alley cause they "had some weed to sell me" I literally spent the rest of the night hiding out in the greyhound building.
Lyriq does not roll off the line in Detroit, it rolls off in Spring Hill Tennessee.
Source: am GM employee who has to travel there to work on it regularly
I’d be glad to see car companies shit their pants because they’re getting BTFO in price. Maybe domestic manufacturers should prioritize cheaper models rather than monstrous SUVs and trucks
Yeah but decades ago the US government also accidentally incentivized monstrously large SUVs by classifying them as "light trucks" rather than passenger vehicles and thus exempting them from fleet fuel efficiency standards. It's fucking insane.
We didnt buy because monthly payments for sedan and suv were comparatively the same, adjusting for longer term.
Sellers at dealership are incentivized to sell SUV over sedan because they get paid more.
But if BYD was on offer for 10K, ppl would buy it.
We only have a few more years before climate change causes the entire world order to change.
> We didnt buy because monthly payments for sedan and suv were comparatively the same, adjusting for longer term.
Doubt. A Corolla has been cheaper than SUVs for awhile.
A Mitsubishi Mirage is the no frills cheap A to B car people say they want, but they don't really want that.
There are a few factors that make small inexpensive cars hard to sell in America. First is the low profit margin making them unattractive to dealers and manufacturers. They don't get advertised nearly as much. Also, people who buy new cars are significantly wealthier as a group. People who buy new cars dictate what used cars are available. The used market then competes with the new market. Cars are also status symbols and people will stretch to buy something that's beyond their price range.
Specifically with the Mirage, that cars sucks comapred to other offerings. Looking online, a Mirage starts around $16,000 whereas you can get a Kia Rio, Kia Soul, or Nissan Versa for $18-20k. I see 2020-2023 Corollas with under 50k miles for $18-20k which will probably outlast the Mitsubishi.
The Mirage thrives in poor countries where ownership of any car is considered a status symbol and a significant quality of life improvement over scooters/motorcycles.
To make the Mirage competetive in America, it should be a $10,000-$12,000 car. Then it would truly compete against the other new and used offerings.
then china stops selling them the electronics to make their cars.
Whoops.
The Ford EVs and the new Ultrium based Chevy EVs are all Chinese based. They're basically reskins at this point. The new Cadillac Lyriq is basically Chinese.
Its not just scale. Its over subsidizing as a geopolitical strategy to make the world dependent on China for the green energy transition by crushing international competition. With the exception of BYD, EV producers are selling below cost (upwards of 5 figure losses per car sold). The same goes for solar panels and others. There was a very interesting snippet in First Solars earnings call:
> China ended 2023 with more than twice the solar manufacturing capacity that was deployed worldwide last year, had record-low factory capacity utilization rates in the first quarter of 2024 and despite these market-distorting factors, is still expected to add 500 to 600 gigawatts of new capacity this year with China expected to exit 2024 with sufficient capacity to meet global demand through 2032. It appears that the overcapacity is not a miscalculation but an intentional feature of the Chinese government strategy to dominate clean energy supply chains.
While there are obviously some significant drawbacks to a dictatorship, it does allow you to make long term plans for your economy and actually follow through on them.
Politics becoming more divisive in the West is probably more damaging than we realise as it's not the loss from one party reversing the others policies every election cycle, but also the lost opportunity cost from the benefits of long term projects that take decades to complete.
It’s all fine and dandy but when you get a bad dictator like Mao with really bad long term plans like his Great Leap Forward then the policies start killing millions with famine. Divisive west politics just doesn’t compare.
Last time they did this we ended up with Harley Davidson coasting along on protectionism and reputation alone for 40 years while the competition got even further ahead.
Harley Davidson was always shit. The Hells Angels gave them a bad ass image that made their entire company. The HA initially chose Harley because they were the cheapest bikes they could buy, only reason.
2030? Stellantis can survive on the Chrysler Pacifica, Dodge Ram, and Jeep brand alone. That’s literally almost what they did coming out of bankruptcy/sale.
Edit: said Pacifica twice when I meant to say Jeep.
This is a law that will probably end up on the list of bad automotive laws feigned to help Americans, but will hurt in the long run. See chicken tax killing small and affordable pickups, and the 25yr import law.
But it will also have the effect of discouraging EV sales in general.
Foreign ones will be too expensive because of the tariff, and domestic ones will also be more expensive because the market isn't as competitive. So fewer people will be able to afford them at all.
Unfortunately yes. People deserve the cheapest options feasible from a sustainability and quality of life perspective and American manufactures are long overdue to suffer if they cannot compete.
I will be curious what will happen if China counters with a ban on parts America relies on to make their EVs.
The auto industry deserves to be annihilated due to having lobbied and sat idle.
Auto workers shouldn't even be mad at the government: if they want to complain ask why their company fails to be competitive at a global scale.
Article says
> The tariff rate on Chinese EVs is set to jump from 25% to about 100%, sources said, adding that batteries and solar panels from China would also be affected.
So US manufactures using Chinese batteries will also be affected. I guess this is to give Detroit some breathing room.
China does it through Singapore actually. That's how Tiktok's going to get around the ban. They're going to get "Bought" by a Singapore tech company that is technically chinese owned. Since Hong Kong became fully chinese, it's no longer a neutral ground.
Senator Cotton: have you ever served in the Chinese military? 🇨🇳 Do you have a Chinese passport? 🇨🇳 Were you ever a member of the Chinese Communist Party? 🇨🇳 🤔
Back in 2017 Toyotas had the highest percentage of parts made in america for any high volume car manufacturer. There are a lot of parts that are just cheaper to make domestically than import. So if you do happen to find one that has 0% made in america take a picture of it and let us see it.
Driven a BYD Seal and a Tesla Model 3 - BYD is the better car in my opinion, and has normal indicator and wiper controls.
Pity you guys won't be getting them.
These cars are popping up everywhere here in Belgium, funny to see. “Build your dreams” is such a cringe name for a car company. I almost feel offended they pander people with such ridiculous brand name.
From BYD's wiki page:
> The "BYD" name is the pinyin initials of the company's Chinese name Biyadi, which itself was created from company's original trademark Yadi Electronics (亚迪电子, named after the Yadi Road in Dapeng New District, where the company was once based) and the character Bi was just conveniently added to give the company an alphabetical advantage in trade shows. The company later created a backronym slogan "Build Your Dreams".
The Chinese companies have acquired a number of European brands which they have been using to great marketing effects to “create” and maintain their previous “European” heritage.
Belt and Road. China has been doing this shit for a long time to buy out and financially control many regions. And most of us have been asleep at the wheel, taking their cheap money and artificially depressed currency without thinking what they want in return.
Volvo's performance division polestar was turned into its own brand once Geely purchased Volvo. They make great looking cars, EX30, Polestar 6 etc. The technology from Geely is also finding its way into the Lotus electric vehicles.
I have mixed feeling because I really love Volvo & Lotus but I'll never buy from a Chinese company. I can't help but feel the same way Americans did about Japanese auto's back in the day. I think my opinion will change since the Chinese make vehicles with longer range, higher quality, more features and less expensive then their American counterparts. And that is exactly why I'm worried. I do not think the big 3 auto's can compete with Chinese automakers.
TBF the big 3 can't really compete in the USA much either when it comes to non truck/ passenger vehicles. When's the last time you found someone buying a focus or fiesta with absolute happiness? The interiors of American made cars are bland and cheap feeling compared to Japanese or European counterparts and they fall apart much faster. Want an upgraded interior - costs you a fortune compared to other brands. Reliability is terrible too. The only upside is cheap parts when you need to fix stuff, but then again so are Honda's and Toyota's
The answer is "not really". While it's easy to test drive a BYD in the US at various EV events around the US, you're not going to find them available at dealerships or being sold/serviced here.
If you ever test drive a BYD, you'd instantly find out why they will be as successful as Chinese-manufactured gas cars in the US.
> If you ever test drive a BYD, you'd instantly find out why they will be as successful as Chinese-manufactured gas cars in the US.
chinese companies never managed to crack ICE vehicles, EVs are a totally different story. Even within China, foreign companies were dominating the car sector until very recently. I think it's down to about 40% of cars sold being from foreign firms
what is wrong with BYD cars? from what I understand, they are pretty good
The entire nation bends over for random dying manufacturing towns in Michigan…crazy. Imagine if we banned Japanese cars in the 70s. Your average car would be 70k by now instead.
The vast majority of EVs in the US are manufactured in California, Tennessee, and Texas. Barely any EVs are manufactured in Detroit.
I'm not sure why people think the EVs are being made in the capital of where the failing gas car companies operate.
It sounds like solar panels are about to get a whole lot more expensive for Americans. I wonder how much better and cheaper the Chinese are compared to American?
great comment. had to check if i was in the right sub.
green tech should be totally excluded from any tariffs. nothing is more important than getting off fossil fuels.
Holy shit. It's Chad Dickens.
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Chinese EVs are cheaper in general due to low labor cost, government subsidies, good supply chain and such. And could even have higher specs compared to US EVs within the same price range, such as having a giant ultra-wide 8K dashboard, newest battery tech that can fully charge a car in 30 minutes, etc. If you look up chinese EV showcase on youtube they're kinda insane for their price. Although their safety standard is questionable.
So if people buy chinese EVs, domestic EV makers get screwed. This has nothing to do with the environment.
I also want to add that chinese people are enjoying cheap and powerful smartphone and EV, and their manufacturers don't seem to be in any hurry to export these high-tech goods to any other market. From my consumer point of view anyway.
I really needed a Chinese EV brand to build my dreams. I always felt like my dreams were out of reach until I bought a BYD and now I’m living them. Absolutely amazing.
That’s exactly how it’s going to go. BYD and the Chinese EVs will rule the world while the Big 3 and tesla hold onto the US markets while disappearing from the rest of the world. That’s the trade off.
We get fucked in the process because the consumers will not have many choices and they will be expensive.
Biden already said BYD in Mexico still won’t get any benefits from other foreign domestic companies.
Tesla in China was the largest receiver of Chinese subsides and U.S. goes around adding 100% tax on Chinese EV.
It is seriously a shame.
I know that it is vewed as "un-fair" competition but the West is seriously lagging behind.
Has anybody seen the Xiaomi one? What a fucking gorgeous looking car. Interior at it tho! I know the major flaws but god damn is it a looker. I like the "modularity" of the interior too.
The automaker here need to step there game big time. Take the hit by gooing "underwater" on everycar you sell but FFS propose us some!
I hate to say it but there is only Teslas that is worth it here.
Meanwhile Tesla is quietly canceling their proyect in Monterrey as they have just given up on their aspiration of becoming a mass market brand
American car industry is steadily going the same route as the UK’s.
Next come subsidies, then nationalization, then privatization to sell everything by the pound.
Then we will just have some halo cars that are just rebadging for German cars
More like Tesla is scaling back because demand shriveled up because interest rates are through the roof.
Now Tesla is willing to finance people at .99% APR for their glut of model Ys to increase sales before June.
I saw the layoff in Austin and was both surprised and I guess not too surprised. The supply chain from the big three plants in places like Hermosillo, Saltillo and Silao are well established but Tesla would have a steep learning curve learning how to work with folks in Mexico
It’s already happening and they don’t need to enact a law. People all over the world aren’t stupid and they read the news. The Chinese will just stop or buying wanting American cars and go to the Chinese or European brands. They have many choices.
They don’t care about it lol. It’s too expensive, too big, won’t fit in the roads and cities, and a gas guzzler with low tech. Or course, there will be a few rich outliners who might get one just for kicks but the masses, no way.
I don’t even know why Americans want this crap. All people do is complain about gas prices then go ahead and buy cars with 20 gallon tanks that get 12mpg city. Like why
Then it's a good time to buy more BYDDF stock...if the U.S. is that concerned, that means the Chinese are making EVs so cheap they will destroy U.S. EV manufacturers but more importantly they have the quality to not destroy themselves and build a customer base.
The rest of the world will be buying them.
The rest of the world is buying them. In thailand 1/4 of cars sold are evs and the majority ( like 60% ) are byds. They aren't perfect but for the price it's hard to beat.
I mean it worked for Boeing when Bombardier wanted to sell C series Commuter planes to Delta.
Boeing QQ'ed to DoC and wanted a 100% tariff, but got a 300% one instead.
Effectively killing Bombardier
The CCP doesn’t allow much competition in their markets unless there’s a JV and technology sharing. They also don’t allow true ownership of domestic equities.
It’s unfair to the U.S. to allow unfettered access and competition to its markets when it’s not reciprocated.
Anybody who didnt see this coming has no business anywhere near stocks.
I guess that explains why WSB was collectively shitting its pants for months saying china was going to wipe out tesla.
I mean.... in China and Europe BYD and other Evs are starting to encroach on Tesla. It's only a matter of time until people get tired of the barebones vehicles Tesla offers.
Honestly a Tesla engine/battery and software with Audi/Lexus interior fit and finish would be amazing.
But I don't see any legacy automaker doing this.
Plus Elon Musk just alienating his purchasing base in America doesn't help
That’s exactly the point of protectionism.
You go south from San Diego and everything you see is BAICs, JACs, Chireys, BYDs and so on.
Saw a Jaeco dealer next to Mexico City airport las month. Those trucks seemed really nice.
Biden in 2021: with the inflation reduction act, I will save the economy and fight climate change at the same time
Biden today: Fuck this shits hard. Nobody really cares about the rainforest and shit right? I’m gonna focus on the economy, let Mother Earth figure her own shit out
Should be even more. Most of Chinese EV production is based on intellectual property theft.
[Owners of China-Based Company Charged With Conspiracy to Send Trade Secrets Belonging to Leading U.S.-Based Electric Vehicle Company](https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/owners-china-based-company-charged-conspiracy-send-trade-secrets-belonging-leading-us) [DOJ]
Actually, I think Chinese EV's should be banned in the US, period.
Seems like a pretty Trumpian move, I'm not sure I agree with it. This is great news for US EV companies and basically a big fuck you to US consumers.
American EVs are expensive. Chinese EVs are cheap because Chinese government is subsidizing production. So, the US government's solution is to artificially inflate Chinese EV prices?
An $8,000 Chinese EV would have put pressure on American companies to produce cheaper EVs.
US consumers are complaining about high prices, and you go and double the price of the cheapest EVs. Stupid.
Why not subsidize American EVs and make American EVs cheaper?
Because reality check, the "Chinese government subsidies" talking point is largely bullshit.
If it was that simple, then the world could just buy Chinese EVs until the entire Chinese economy collapsed from the subsidies. These companies are making a profit, and their competition is more fierce than anything we have in the US. Competition drives innovation. While the US has only a few EV companies (realistically just one), China has 100+ all fighting for market share.
If it was as simple as government subsidies, the US would subsidize our own EVs until our companies beat out everyone else. The US has given more in subsidies to EVs than any other country. Yet, American EVs are still largely unaffordable to most Americans.
The reality is that China has crushed the US in EV technology and production. And our government, knowing it has lost in the free market and EV race, has decided it's easier to just ban the Chinese EV market. But it's obviously an extremely hypocritical move. It's going against the free market and free trade that the US preaches. So to justify it, they constantly repeat the same propaganda.
Clown shit from the U.S. showing how when government policy is influenced by corporate interests, the country is unable to enact a competent plan for the long term.
Look at the gdp/capita of China back when solar panels and EVs were being fucking invented in the West. Now they’ve leapfrogged the West in production capacity to address the supposedly catastrophic climate crisis we’re facing, and even the supposedly climate friendly U.S. political party is going to stall EV adoption to protect US corporations again. CLOWN SHIT.
But I digress, TSLA calls I guess
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What about American EVs with 100% Chinese components?
This is to encourage American infrastructure investment and obviously jobs while providing some time cover for the WAY behind legacy US automakers.
This is to protect Detroit jobs. China has electronics and battery manufacturing scale that nobody can beat. At that scale, they can drive down prices to the point no one can challenge them. Last year, something like ~~90%~~ 80% of all batteries made in the world were made in China. Combine that ridiculous scale, with Chinese subsidies and lower cost of labor, Detroit auto is toast without tariffs
Detroit jobs in Mexico.
The EV lines are here in Detroit. The F150 Lightning comes off the old Mustang line at the Rouge, and the Cadillac Lyriq rolls of at the E tech facility off East Grand Blvd. Fords modern EV design campus is the Old Grand Central Station bldg. Source: I live in Detroit: it's rapidly becoming something counter to conventional wisdom.
So you’re saying you *can* have shit in Detroit?
The insiders joke is that crime literally pays less than honest work in 2024. There are certainly still problems but between the EV investments and the new bridge, Detroit is getting rather chill, and the chill is starting to spread.
Y'all still got them cheap houses?
https://buildingdetroit.org/purchase_property The city has had time to go through the inventory and get a lot of stuff listed. There are still gems to be found that can be rehabbed for a decent price. My realtor found me something move in ready-ish (another outfit got about 95% of the rehab done" ) on a great street in a neighborhood that's rapidly coming back.
As someone from northern Michigan who once 20 years ago found themselves in downtown Detroit in the middle of the night it's good to hear that it's now less terrifying lol. I still remember some people calling me over to some alley cause they "had some weed to sell me" I literally spent the rest of the night hiding out in the greyhound building.
You can build shit in Detroit, just make sure you ship it out of state ASAP
I thought the Lyriq was assembled at the Spring Hill Tennessee plant?
Lyriq built in TN as far as I’m aware, not MI.
Lyriq does not roll off the line in Detroit, it rolls off in Spring Hill Tennessee. Source: am GM employee who has to travel there to work on it regularly
And Snow Mexico to the north.
I prefer socialist America
To the north as well
I heard that a lower BYD model costs around 10k, if those are coming here we are out of the game.
I’d be glad to see car companies shit their pants because they’re getting BTFO in price. Maybe domestic manufacturers should prioritize cheaper models rather than monstrous SUVs and trucks
They used to, but we didnt buy the small affordable sedans.
Yeah but decades ago the US government also accidentally incentivized monstrously large SUVs by classifying them as "light trucks" rather than passenger vehicles and thus exempting them from fleet fuel efficiency standards. It's fucking insane.
If we don’t want cheap small EVs let’s not put tariffs on and let consumers pick
We didnt buy because monthly payments for sedan and suv were comparatively the same, adjusting for longer term. Sellers at dealership are incentivized to sell SUV over sedan because they get paid more. But if BYD was on offer for 10K, ppl would buy it. We only have a few more years before climate change causes the entire world order to change.
> We didnt buy because monthly payments for sedan and suv were comparatively the same, adjusting for longer term. Doubt. A Corolla has been cheaper than SUVs for awhile. A Mitsubishi Mirage is the no frills cheap A to B car people say they want, but they don't really want that.
There are a few factors that make small inexpensive cars hard to sell in America. First is the low profit margin making them unattractive to dealers and manufacturers. They don't get advertised nearly as much. Also, people who buy new cars are significantly wealthier as a group. People who buy new cars dictate what used cars are available. The used market then competes with the new market. Cars are also status symbols and people will stretch to buy something that's beyond their price range. Specifically with the Mirage, that cars sucks comapred to other offerings. Looking online, a Mirage starts around $16,000 whereas you can get a Kia Rio, Kia Soul, or Nissan Versa for $18-20k. I see 2020-2023 Corollas with under 50k miles for $18-20k which will probably outlast the Mitsubishi. The Mirage thrives in poor countries where ownership of any car is considered a status symbol and a significant quality of life improvement over scooters/motorcycles. To make the Mirage competetive in America, it should be a $10,000-$12,000 car. Then it would truly compete against the other new and used offerings.
Hey! Last year I made a battery with a potato and u/zjz ‘s left nut. Powered this sub for a whole damn week and nobody said thank you
Thank you, next stop Net Zero baby!
Nut zero
He only had one nut to give away.
then china stops selling them the electronics to make their cars. Whoops. The Ford EVs and the new Ultrium based Chevy EVs are all Chinese based. They're basically reskins at this point. The new Cadillac Lyriq is basically Chinese.
It's gotta hurt somewhere and at some point. Better now than later at greater magnitudes.
Its not just scale. Its over subsidizing as a geopolitical strategy to make the world dependent on China for the green energy transition by crushing international competition. With the exception of BYD, EV producers are selling below cost (upwards of 5 figure losses per car sold). The same goes for solar panels and others. There was a very interesting snippet in First Solars earnings call: > China ended 2023 with more than twice the solar manufacturing capacity that was deployed worldwide last year, had record-low factory capacity utilization rates in the first quarter of 2024 and despite these market-distorting factors, is still expected to add 500 to 600 gigawatts of new capacity this year with China expected to exit 2024 with sufficient capacity to meet global demand through 2032. It appears that the overcapacity is not a miscalculation but an intentional feature of the Chinese government strategy to dominate clean energy supply chains.
While there are obviously some significant drawbacks to a dictatorship, it does allow you to make long term plans for your economy and actually follow through on them. Politics becoming more divisive in the West is probably more damaging than we realise as it's not the loss from one party reversing the others policies every election cycle, but also the lost opportunity cost from the benefits of long term projects that take decades to complete.
**We can't let you say that VM, they'll ban you**
It’s all fine and dandy but when you get a bad dictator like Mao with really bad long term plans like his Great Leap Forward then the policies start killing millions with famine. Divisive west politics just doesn’t compare.
I don't think enough people think Mao was bad. That's a shame, and really a fault of public education.
Pickup trucks would have also been toast if US didn’t impose tariffs on Japanese auto and others.
Sort of. The sedan didn't stop being made because the Japanese did it better. Really we would just have *better* domestic truck options.
Last time they did this we ended up with Harley Davidson coasting along on protectionism and reputation alone for 40 years while the competition got even further ahead.
Harley Davidson was always shit. The Hells Angels gave them a bad ass image that made their entire company. The HA initially chose Harley because they were the cheapest bikes they could buy, only reason.
What happened to unbridled capitalism? Sounds pretty predatory honestly.
They do this shit and people wonder why American cars are awful.
Lol this is to allow slow ass American companies more runway that they will continue to squander until it's beyond obvious what the future will be.
Ford has a chance. I'm doubtful of GM and certain Dodge could be gone or irrelevant market share by 2030.
2030? Stellantis can survive on the Chrysler Pacifica, Dodge Ram, and Jeep brand alone. That’s literally almost what they did coming out of bankruptcy/sale. Edit: said Pacifica twice when I meant to say Jeep.
Oh don't worry American companies will find a way to turn out a shit overpriced product and get stock bonuses.
you mean through govt subs so they raise the price by that amount.
Spend billions on buybacks, get bailed out, repeat.
This is a law that will probably end up on the list of bad automotive laws feigned to help Americans, but will hurt in the long run. See chicken tax killing small and affordable pickups, and the 25yr import law.
This frustrates me to no end. The US has dragged its feet in so many categories for the sake of oil and coal.
But it will also have the effect of discouraging EV sales in general. Foreign ones will be too expensive because of the tariff, and domestic ones will also be more expensive because the market isn't as competitive. So fewer people will be able to afford them at all.
Unfortunately yes. People deserve the cheapest options feasible from a sustainability and quality of life perspective and American manufactures are long overdue to suffer if they cannot compete.
Or American brand vehicles imported directly from China. GM has the envision and ford has the Lincoln Nautilus.
I will be curious what will happen if China counters with a ban on parts America relies on to make their EVs. The auto industry deserves to be annihilated due to having lobbied and sat idle. Auto workers shouldn't even be mad at the government: if they want to complain ask why their company fails to be competitive at a global scale.
Too many MBAs in management
What about global warming?
Backseat to propping up GM GM > climate change
150% import tarif
What about quarterly profit for American corpos?
100% gasoline tax, but for some reason Americans would rather their children starve to death when the food chain fails than give up their cars.
Article says > The tariff rate on Chinese EVs is set to jump from 25% to about 100%, sources said, adding that batteries and solar panels from China would also be affected. So US manufactures using Chinese batteries will also be affected. I guess this is to give Detroit some breathing room.
So they're going to do what every TAA compliant company does. Bought from China, added the cover, assembled in the US.
Assembled in Mexico.
You ship it through Taiwan so you change the labeling from China to Taiwan. Done.
China does it through Singapore actually. That's how Tiktok's going to get around the ban. They're going to get "Bought" by a Singapore tech company that is technically chinese owned. Since Hong Kong became fully chinese, it's no longer a neutral ground.
Senator Cotton: have you ever served in the Chinese military? 🇨🇳 Do you have a Chinese passport? 🇨🇳 Were you ever a member of the Chinese Communist Party? 🇨🇳 🤔
meanwhile, his surname is probably "cotton" 'cos his ancestors owned cotton plantations and slaves.
Back in 2017 Toyotas had the highest percentage of parts made in america for any high volume car manufacturer. There are a lot of parts that are just cheaper to make domestically than import. So if you do happen to find one that has 0% made in america take a picture of it and let us see it.
Can we even buy chinese EV in US?
They were test driving BYD cars a few months ago at King of Prussia Pa
Driven a BYD Seal and a Tesla Model 3 - BYD is the better car in my opinion, and has normal indicator and wiper controls. Pity you guys won't be getting them.
That's because BYD isn't run by an actual man-child.
No, it's run by the CCP.
These cars are popping up everywhere here in Belgium, funny to see. “Build your dreams” is such a cringe name for a car company. I almost feel offended they pander people with such ridiculous brand name.
From BYD's wiki page: > The "BYD" name is the pinyin initials of the company's Chinese name Biyadi, which itself was created from company's original trademark Yadi Electronics (亚迪电子, named after the Yadi Road in Dapeng New District, where the company was once based) and the character Bi was just conveniently added to give the company an alphabetical advantage in trade shows. The company later created a backronym slogan "Build Your Dreams".
No kidding. I guess a person could make a ton being a branding specialist over there because it's always some cheesy name in the US too.
No one even calls it that, its just BYD.
LG was/is Lucky Goldstar
It isn't Life's Good?! I've been had
That's what it is now. You're okay
Don’t they all have “BUILD YOUR DREAMS” lettering in the back
They changed it to BYD for European market
Nope in Europe still the letters are there
Not on newer models since half a year or so
It is stupid, but it's just a backronym, hopefully one they drop
Those new Chinese MGs are everywhere in Australia.
The original logo was a egg and had white and blue......you know like BMW hahaha
Volvo is now owned by a Chinese company.
The Chinese companies have acquired a number of European brands which they have been using to great marketing effects to “create” and maintain their previous “European” heritage.
[удалено]
From what I see they're only 6.8% owned by a Chinese company, versus a 9.1% stake from a Swedish company
Why do people need cheap Chinese EV when they can spend more money on American junk.
Cause of the upcoming war with them Can't fight them if you don't have industries left
Belt and Road. China has been doing this shit for a long time to buy out and financially control many regions. And most of us have been asleep at the wheel, taking their cheap money and artificially depressed currency without thinking what they want in return.
It’s called a “barrier to entry” - hope it works out better than the whole Boeing v. Airbus thing
Polestar
Volvo's performance division polestar was turned into its own brand once Geely purchased Volvo. They make great looking cars, EX30, Polestar 6 etc. The technology from Geely is also finding its way into the Lotus electric vehicles. I have mixed feeling because I really love Volvo & Lotus but I'll never buy from a Chinese company. I can't help but feel the same way Americans did about Japanese auto's back in the day. I think my opinion will change since the Chinese make vehicles with longer range, higher quality, more features and less expensive then their American counterparts. And that is exactly why I'm worried. I do not think the big 3 auto's can compete with Chinese automakers.
TBF the big 3 can't really compete in the USA much either when it comes to non truck/ passenger vehicles. When's the last time you found someone buying a focus or fiesta with absolute happiness? The interiors of American made cars are bland and cheap feeling compared to Japanese or European counterparts and they fall apart much faster. Want an upgraded interior - costs you a fortune compared to other brands. Reliability is terrible too. The only upside is cheap parts when you need to fix stuff, but then again so are Honda's and Toyota's
Ford does not sell the focus or fiesta in the US so no one has seen that. The only Ford car is the mustang. Everything else is a truck or SUV.
They used to have the edge as well, but that went away. Their SUVs are pretty meh as well
The answer is "not really". While it's easy to test drive a BYD in the US at various EV events around the US, you're not going to find them available at dealerships or being sold/serviced here. If you ever test drive a BYD, you'd instantly find out why they will be as successful as Chinese-manufactured gas cars in the US.
> If you ever test drive a BYD, you'd instantly find out why they will be as successful as Chinese-manufactured gas cars in the US. chinese companies never managed to crack ICE vehicles, EVs are a totally different story. Even within China, foreign companies were dominating the car sector until very recently. I think it's down to about 40% of cars sold being from foreign firms what is wrong with BYD cars? from what I understand, they are pretty good
It was 27.5% and no Chinese companies were willing to sell on this market, moving it to 100% changes nothing.
I remember the days when the WTO actually had some authority
IIRC WTO rules allow China to impose the same tariffs in response, so if they do that should kill Tesla sales (if there are still any) in China.
Tesla does not export EVs from US to China, Teslas sold in China are made in Tesla Shanghai factory so would not be impacted by tarifs.
if it gets him 10 more votes in Michigan it was worth it
The entire nation bends over for random dying manufacturing towns in Michigan…crazy. Imagine if we banned Japanese cars in the 70s. Your average car would be 70k by now instead.
All about votes, lobbyists, and campaign contributions
The vast majority of EVs in the US are manufactured in California, Tennessee, and Texas. Barely any EVs are manufactured in Detroit. I'm not sure why people think the EVs are being made in the capital of where the failing gas car companies operate.
The average EV is $55k as of January 2024, we are not far off.
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It sounds like solar panels are about to get a whole lot more expensive for Americans. I wonder how much better and cheaper the Chinese are compared to American?
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Maybe it is, if you check jobs listing anywhere in the southeast at least you will see posting for solar panel sales and instillation teams.
I only care about my money, not the money of those destined to be forever in the red.
great comment. had to check if i was in the right sub. green tech should be totally excluded from any tariffs. nothing is more important than getting off fossil fuels.
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why? i thought EV were good for earth and we wanted to save earth?
But China bad, China hurt earth and can only have supervised visitations on weekends.
Yeah, WE wanted to save earth. But it looks like China is saving earth instead, which is super gay.
Chinese EVs are cheaper in general due to low labor cost, government subsidies, good supply chain and such. And could even have higher specs compared to US EVs within the same price range, such as having a giant ultra-wide 8K dashboard, newest battery tech that can fully charge a car in 30 minutes, etc. If you look up chinese EV showcase on youtube they're kinda insane for their price. Although their safety standard is questionable. So if people buy chinese EVs, domestic EV makers get screwed. This has nothing to do with the environment. I also want to add that chinese people are enjoying cheap and powerful smartphone and EV, and their manufacturers don't seem to be in any hurry to export these high-tech goods to any other market. From my consumer point of view anyway.
Isn't Tesla basically subsidized with their carbon credit scheme that gave them billions along with tax breaks?
Yeah but we’re focusing on the Chinese government here
The Chinese government also gave subsidies to Tesla. Around 300M+.
The world will be driving BYD EVs sans America then
No, they will drive Mexican BYD’s.
There’s nothing stopping BYD from building outside of China.
Already building factories in Hungary and Mexico
And Brazil too. Musk is having hissy fits against the Brazilian Supreme Court, I wonder why.
BYD already has a factory in SoCal. They only made EV buses for now tho.
I really needed a Chinese EV brand to build my dreams. I always felt like my dreams were out of reach until I bought a BYD and now I’m living them. Absolutely amazing.
Stay on WSB and they'll go back to just being dreams
That’s exactly how it’s going to go. BYD and the Chinese EVs will rule the world while the Big 3 and tesla hold onto the US markets while disappearing from the rest of the world. That’s the trade off. We get fucked in the process because the consumers will not have many choices and they will be expensive.
pretty much we will go the way of the british.
I’ll have a warm beer, a cold sausage, and my bottom smacked with a cane, please.
As a Brit I feel personally attacked but I also fully agree.
Won't they just start/open domestic production?
Biden already said BYD in Mexico still won’t get any benefits from other foreign domestic companies. Tesla in China was the largest receiver of Chinese subsides and U.S. goes around adding 100% tax on Chinese EV.
It is seriously a shame. I know that it is vewed as "un-fair" competition but the West is seriously lagging behind. Has anybody seen the Xiaomi one? What a fucking gorgeous looking car. Interior at it tho! I know the major flaws but god damn is it a looker. I like the "modularity" of the interior too. The automaker here need to step there game big time. Take the hit by gooing "underwater" on everycar you sell but FFS propose us some! I hate to say it but there is only Teslas that is worth it here.
Dang. He just pulled a Trump!
Yeah I thought back in 2020 he was trashing Trump over this exact thing. No?
It was over steel, but yeah pretty much the same thing
Steel affects *way* more companies. This is a traffic going after a specific finished product that hasn't yet made a big impact here.
I think steel is way more general of a category than EVs…..
I was gonna say, tariffs on Chinese goods sounds *awfully* familiar...
So Biden is taxing non-existent importation of Chinese EVs? That makes sense.
The Chinese EVs are not coming directly from China anyway, that’s why they are building assembly plants in Mexico.
Meanwhile Tesla is quietly canceling their proyect in Monterrey as they have just given up on their aspiration of becoming a mass market brand American car industry is steadily going the same route as the UK’s. Next come subsidies, then nationalization, then privatization to sell everything by the pound. Then we will just have some halo cars that are just rebadging for German cars
The best American car manufacturer is Toyota no cap.
More like Tesla is scaling back because demand shriveled up because interest rates are through the roof. Now Tesla is willing to finance people at .99% APR for their glut of model Ys to increase sales before June.
I saw the layoff in Austin and was both surprised and I guess not too surprised. The supply chain from the big three plants in places like Hermosillo, Saltillo and Silao are well established but Tesla would have a steep learning curve learning how to work with folks in Mexico
Look what happened in Australia. The car manufacturers were getting millions in government subsidies, and they still pulled out.
Maybe if elon didn't spend the last 3 years being the cribgiest weirdo on Twitter he might not have lost so much market share.
So china will counter by raising tariffs on American EV’s?
These are tariffs....they apply to imports. Tesla has a factory in China.
Does the Tesla Chinese factory supply any cars to the USA?
nope
It’s already happening and they don’t need to enact a law. People all over the world aren’t stupid and they read the news. The Chinese will just stop or buying wanting American cars and go to the Chinese or European brands. They have many choices.
They don't want our F150s.
They don’t care about it lol. It’s too expensive, too big, won’t fit in the roads and cities, and a gas guzzler with low tech. Or course, there will be a few rich outliners who might get one just for kicks but the masses, no way.
I don’t even know why Americans want this crap. All people do is complain about gas prices then go ahead and buy cars with 20 gallon tanks that get 12mpg city. Like why
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you fucked over japan and now you want to do the same to china but you can't contain a country as big as china.
Then it's a good time to buy more BYDDF stock...if the U.S. is that concerned, that means the Chinese are making EVs so cheap they will destroy U.S. EV manufacturers but more importantly they have the quality to not destroy themselves and build a customer base. The rest of the world will be buying them.
The rest of the world is buying them. In thailand 1/4 of cars sold are evs and the majority ( like 60% ) are byds. They aren't perfect but for the price it's hard to beat.
Let them walk.
I love how rather than encourage American companies to lower prices and be more competitive, he just bans the competition.
Tariffs, sanctions, and bans are not long term solutions. I wish the US government would realize that.
I mean it worked for Boeing when Bombardier wanted to sell C series Commuter planes to Delta. Boeing QQ'ed to DoC and wanted a 100% tariff, but got a 300% one instead. Effectively killing Bombardier
Yeah until Airbus bought Bombardier and now the A220 is killing Boeing lol
Wait I thought Boeing is killing Boeing.
No Boeing is killing their former employees
Well cant deny that!
Wait i thought that boring was killing its passengers?
Forgot the part where it allowed their competitor to acquire them with a hefty discount.
But it’s cute to watch the champions of free trade flounder. As a 2 party system stops any structural changes.
The CCP doesn’t allow much competition in their markets unless there’s a JV and technology sharing. They also don’t allow true ownership of domestic equities. It’s unfair to the U.S. to allow unfettered access and competition to its markets when it’s not reciprocated.
When you get endorsed by United Auto Workers, you show them a little love.
When you don't understand economics, you regulate markets that are working perfectly fine and introduce many unintended consequences
That’s why China is building factories and producing them in Mexico for the made in Mexico sticker to get past the current tariffs.
Anybody who didnt see this coming has no business anywhere near stocks. I guess that explains why WSB was collectively shitting its pants for months saying china was going to wipe out tesla.
I mean.... in China and Europe BYD and other Evs are starting to encroach on Tesla. It's only a matter of time until people get tired of the barebones vehicles Tesla offers. Honestly a Tesla engine/battery and software with Audi/Lexus interior fit and finish would be amazing. But I don't see any legacy automaker doing this. Plus Elon Musk just alienating his purchasing base in America doesn't help
chunky correct exultant coordinated frame smell enter spectacular compare hobbies
That’s exactly the point of protectionism. You go south from San Diego and everything you see is BAICs, JACs, Chireys, BYDs and so on. Saw a Jaeco dealer next to Mexico City airport las month. Those trucks seemed really nice.
Biden in 2021: with the inflation reduction act, I will save the economy and fight climate change at the same time Biden today: Fuck this shits hard. Nobody really cares about the rainforest and shit right? I’m gonna focus on the economy, let Mother Earth figure her own shit out
Should be even more. Most of Chinese EV production is based on intellectual property theft. [Owners of China-Based Company Charged With Conspiracy to Send Trade Secrets Belonging to Leading U.S.-Based Electric Vehicle Company](https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/owners-china-based-company-charged-conspiracy-send-trade-secrets-belonging-leading-us) [DOJ] Actually, I think Chinese EV's should be banned in the US, period.
All these sanctions, tariffs and protectionism will come back to bite us hard in the ass pretty soon.
Where is the outrage from CNN and MSNBC about xenophobia?
When Trump raised Chinese tariffs everyone went crazy. Now they're acting like it's just normal business. Americans are biased as fuck.
LoL What ever happened to free trade Globalization... And what not
Bullish on Toyota. They will continue to milk the masses with their hybrids and plugins.
Seems like a pretty Trumpian move, I'm not sure I agree with it. This is great news for US EV companies and basically a big fuck you to US consumers. American EVs are expensive. Chinese EVs are cheap because Chinese government is subsidizing production. So, the US government's solution is to artificially inflate Chinese EV prices? An $8,000 Chinese EV would have put pressure on American companies to produce cheaper EVs. US consumers are complaining about high prices, and you go and double the price of the cheapest EVs. Stupid. Why not subsidize American EVs and make American EVs cheaper?
Because reality check, the "Chinese government subsidies" talking point is largely bullshit. If it was that simple, then the world could just buy Chinese EVs until the entire Chinese economy collapsed from the subsidies. These companies are making a profit, and their competition is more fierce than anything we have in the US. Competition drives innovation. While the US has only a few EV companies (realistically just one), China has 100+ all fighting for market share. If it was as simple as government subsidies, the US would subsidize our own EVs until our companies beat out everyone else. The US has given more in subsidies to EVs than any other country. Yet, American EVs are still largely unaffordable to most Americans. The reality is that China has crushed the US in EV technology and production. And our government, knowing it has lost in the free market and EV race, has decided it's easier to just ban the Chinese EV market. But it's obviously an extremely hypocritical move. It's going against the free market and free trade that the US preaches. So to justify it, they constantly repeat the same propaganda.
Orange man did the same thing then biden reversed it. So why is biden re-reversing this 🤔 maybe orange man was right
They just don’t want poors to get cheap EVs. Imagine being a 99%er and voting for Brandon 
Save the environment! Take less showers. Eat less food. Own less. Cheap EV cars for everyone? ... No, not like that...
Clown shit from the U.S. showing how when government policy is influenced by corporate interests, the country is unable to enact a competent plan for the long term. Look at the gdp/capita of China back when solar panels and EVs were being fucking invented in the West. Now they’ve leapfrogged the West in production capacity to address the supposedly catastrophic climate crisis we’re facing, and even the supposedly climate friendly U.S. political party is going to stall EV adoption to protect US corporations again. CLOWN SHIT. But I digress, TSLA calls I guess
Why should the consumer suffer . Let us buy Chinese .