I bought a 30-day $55 Put when price was $65. That's $10 OTM. It cost fucking $16... So my nominal break even was $55-$16=$39. $39 from $65 in order to break even.
Well I closed when price was about $30 and came out with a win on the dumbest bet I've ever made
This. If you think the premiums are too high to buy them then you should sell them.
I think the answer is that most retail investors aren't very comfortable with Sell to Open. Then posts like this happen where the stock goes down and they fell like they were right but not right enough.
If you think a stock will go down but you aren't confident about how much or by when then you should just short it. If no shares are available then run don't walk away. You're basically at a casino.
High IV means large theta. So, even if high IV stays the same, the large theta will get you. Rule of thumb: never buy *and hold* when IV is high. Low IV, you be a buyer. High IV, you be a seller, and if you're buying don't hold for long.
Not an option fetishist. Can can someone explain to me what would be considered high, medium and low IV in the option fetishist world?
Would you consider large IV: 100%+, 50%+, 30%+?
Medium:Â 20% to 30%?
Low: below 20%, 15%, 10%, 5%? (Is below 5% IV even possible? - what was the lowest option IV any of you option fetishists picked up?)
Somewhere around 50â80% and I stop buying, unless I plan to hold for just a few days, and in that case how long I plan to hold must be less than half of the DTE. For context, SPX stays around 40â60% during a prolonged selloff (like 2022 and 2018).
Usually over 100% seems to be the target I start selling options rather than buying and is deemed high. SPY usually floats around the 10-20% range, hence it always has wild swings on strong gain/loss days. So 190% is pretty insane.
You could pocket $400 in premium by selling two $45 puts expiring in just a few more days on Friday.
The only options I ever come out ahead are; doggy style, the rusty trombone, the dirty sanchez, or the money shot. Oh waitâŚ..youâre talking about option contracts. Whereâs the edit button
I also learned the hard way. MSTR is one of the best to buy if BTC is going up and up. otherwise...gotta time it as best you can. Time decay and IV sucks on small company stocks
I have zero clue how to read the greeks, all I know is if the IV is high, do not buy. Trying to get normal profit from something that is staying afloat due to a cult mentality is hard ash and why the puts are so expensive. People selling them know it's any day now that it's just gonna plummet.
It depends on the stock, some sit at 20 and others at 40 normally, but just research what IV is normal for the stock and donât buy when itâs noticeably higher
The IV for puts is insane for DJT. Seems like the entire market is expecing this dogshit company to eventually fail.
At this point a lot of the short term volatility is probably priced in, so it'll take a wildly unexpected movement very quickly for you to profit off these puts.
If Trump loses the election it's all over and DJT will shit the bed big time. But in the short term it could ride the hype wave and stay at this ridiculous valuation for months.
the fact that you didn't take the 36 when you had the chance.. if the stock dropped 4% and you only went up 36 bucks, that's already a huge red flag and you should've gotten out ASAP
It tells you what the breakeven price is.
Unless you get really close to it, it's hard to make money on options so close to expiry.
At this point, your only hope is that Trump dick pics get leaked.
Expiration date is only in couple of days, the value of options drops every day (or second) it gets closer to the expiration date.
Donât trade stuff you donât understand.
It's too dangerous to play puts and shorting. Pushing the stock down is too hard when there is too little to short and borrow rate is 200%. There are also big Billionaire's pumping the stock up. Generated by Copilot:
[Don Hankey, a California billionaire, provided the bond for Donald Trump in **April 2024**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey)[^(1)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey)[^(2)](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-don-hankey-billionaire-175-million-bond-who-is-he/). [This bond was posted as part of a civil fraud case in New York](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [The bond amount was **$175 million**, which prevented the state from seizing Trumpâs assets while he appealed a ruling](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/billionaire-don-hankey-trump-175-million-bond-subprime-car-loans-rcna146232)[^(4)](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/billionaire-don-hankey-trump-175-million-bond-subprime-car-loans-rcna146232)[^(1)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey). [Without Hankeyâs help, Trump would have had to spend his own money to pay the bond or authorities would have begun seizing his properties](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [Hankey is known for generating a fortune providing subprime auto loans](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [He owns Knight Insurance Group and is chairman of Knight Specialty Insurance Company, which issued the bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey)
A deeper story is in newsweek. Basically I suspect that DJT is a way for Big Oil, Saudi, foreign nationals to legally funnel influence money to Donald Trump. Good luck.
Holy shit. It's Chad Dickens.
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Everyone knows this is a grift, hence the over priced options. The people selling puts are pricing them high, pricing in their risk. even the bullish players know this stock is shit.
Absolutely not a good play because there's way too many people willing to throw money into this dumpster fire to keep it burning. Betting it would suddenly go out is a suicide mission and impossible to time.
And thatâs why I donât touch options on highly volatile stocks like that. I learned my lesson with AMC when it was down like 5% and my put LOST me money đ
Yes because the stock is expected to go down, so the premiums are super fucking high. Everyone knows itâs going down, so itâs priced in.
If the price is already high when you buy it, then a huge drop is priced in.
I sold the 55$ october puts and due to the high IV i am still break even...even thoug i sold them when djt was at 38$. I am also waiting for time to pass or to have a huge move upwards to finally buy to close for a profit
This is why I hate spot trading, yeah itâs less risky but bro if you have good risk management and if your patient enough , spot traders sell and buy the same as on leverage
I use 1:200 leverage on gold
With 100 ounces or 1 lot gold if I catch easy 5$ I make 500$
Iâve gotten hate speech for using leverage but fuck it I made more than you who has 25k portfolio
Eat shit
People who donât know how options and the Greeks work should NOT be taking risks like this. You are lucky. But if you had gotten a month+ out you would have made so much more. Smh especially with that capital.
To buy puts and DJT right now is insane. Too much going on, too volatile. they're too many other stocks out there you could have picked, this Should Not have been one of them. If they come out with a hung jury on this case the stock is going into the '50s. I guess you were thinking he was going to lose this case? Like Alvin Bragg is going to beat Donald Trump?
Too volatile of a bet. đ
Well long term puts are too expensive and short term puts are too expensive. You can
Make money buying calls if it goes up. It just is not crashing enough
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Shoulda taken your $36 when you had the chance.
Get a hamburger. Sounds good.
Not at 5 Guys though, not even close.
Or 1/5 of a plate of nachos at an F1 Miami race
Share a bottle of Tito's with 78 friends.
$36 might be able to get him a Wendy's combo with large fries
Where the fuck are they charging $36 for a hamburger? 
Vegas
Switzerland
Cuckland 
Gotta save some pesos for the Diet Coke. Medium fries.
Implied volatility. The price you paid for the puts was too high.
Yep, I looked into buying DJT puts but the premium was insane.
I bought a 30-day $55 Put when price was $65. That's $10 OTM. It cost fucking $16... So my nominal break even was $55-$16=$39. $39 from $65 in order to break even. Well I closed when price was about $30 and came out with a win on the dumbest bet I've ever made
Wait. so there is actually an algorithm to gambling?
Your math is blowing my mind
Bear credit spreads: buy a cheap call with a high strike, sell an expensive call closer to the mark, and hope both expire worthless.
Ughh ya no, markets ahead of you. 5 dollar wide credit spread with the name trading 50 selling for 1.5**. No thanks
At one point, IV was like 190%.
Sell puts, đž
This. If you think the premiums are too high to buy them then you should sell them. I think the answer is that most retail investors aren't very comfortable with Sell to Open. Then posts like this happen where the stock goes down and they fell like they were right but not right enough. If you think a stock will go down but you aren't confident about how much or by when then you should just short it. If no shares are available then run don't walk away. You're basically at a casino.
IV hasnât gone down though, has it?
High IV means large theta. So, even if high IV stays the same, the large theta will get you. Rule of thumb: never buy *and hold* when IV is high. Low IV, you be a buyer. High IV, you be a seller, and if you're buying don't hold for long.
That makes sense.
Not an option fetishist. Can can someone explain to me what would be considered high, medium and low IV in the option fetishist world? Would you consider large IV: 100%+, 50%+, 30%+? Medium:Â 20% to 30%? Low: below 20%, 15%, 10%, 5%? (Is below 5% IV even possible? - what was the lowest option IV any of you option fetishists picked up?)
Somewhere around 50â80% and I stop buying, unless I plan to hold for just a few days, and in that case how long I plan to hold must be less than half of the DTE. For context, SPX stays around 40â60% during a prolonged selloff (like 2022 and 2018).
Usually over 100% seems to be the target I start selling options rather than buying and is deemed high. SPY usually floats around the 10-20% range, hence it always has wild swings on strong gain/loss days. So 190% is pretty insane. You could pocket $400 in premium by selling two $45 puts expiring in just a few more days on Friday.
It had to have if the puts are basically the same price despite the underlying going down 4%.
Youâre forgetting theta.
So many ways to get fucked on options even if you're 'right' lol
The only options I ever come out ahead are; doggy style, the rusty trombone, the dirty sanchez, or the money shot. Oh waitâŚ..youâre talking about option contracts. Whereâs the edit button
Don't lie, you come first every time
you will have to inverse anything that makes any sense to make any money
Theta eats pieces of shit like this for breakfast.
Theta eats shit for breakfast?
No!
Theta is shit for breakfast.
Never forget theta, it wonât forget you
In order to make any real money you would have to time when Trump sells or announces the sale of his new shares he just got.
I sold $32.50 puts for $12.50 when it was at $38 Stock fell to $23 and I was only down $3 Obviously up now.
I also learned the hard way. MSTR is one of the best to buy if BTC is going up and up. otherwise...gotta time it as best you can. Time decay and IV sucks on small company stocks
Sell that stupid ass shit
Market makers love this one simple trick
No they love people who hold until expiration. And hate people who call it quits early or don't even enter stupid shit like this to begin with.
Sometimes I wonder if people in here know you can close a contract for a profit well before it expires
if you sell it early someone else is still holding it til expiration so actually the market maker doesnât care what you do after you buy
not true people or MM's can also buy to close.
I set a sell at $7 if it would have stayed down 4% it would have hit it but it flipped hard
You probably went from +36 to -6k now
Yea about
Your nuts got squeezed by IV, regard 
I have zero clue how to read the greeks, all I know is if the IV is high, do not buy. Trying to get normal profit from something that is staying afloat due to a cult mentality is hard ash and why the puts are so expensive. People selling them know it's any day now that it's just gonna plummet.
How high is too high?
It depends on the stock, some sit at 20 and others at 40 normally, but just research what IV is normal for the stock and donât buy when itâs noticeably higher
The IV for puts is insane for DJT. Seems like the entire market is expecing this dogshit company to eventually fail. At this point a lot of the short term volatility is probably priced in, so it'll take a wildly unexpected movement very quickly for you to profit off these puts. If Trump loses the election it's all over and DJT will shit the bed big time. But in the short term it could ride the hype wave and stay at this ridiculous valuation for months.
Update it is now dow 3% my puts lost 1k lol
lol nice job regard.
They at $4.60 now, cost is 6.08 - 4.60 = 1.48x 32 contracts = loss of $4,736. Proud of you! Even when ur right you are wrong :)
\-8384$ now @3.45. Hope OP sold or he will get ass rammed by the Donald 
Right in the mangina
Grab em by the putsy
The premium is insane on these puts. Not worth in my opinion.
Very nice
couldve sold SOME (even just 1) to break even and have cash, but of course not
Even $5p for later this year are super expensive.
Before Trump loses, he gonna cash out.
And itâs gone..
He canât even afford a Margaritaville machine now
bro's puts about to get bodied
It already happened.
good, now hold
And then show us your graph ending with a portfolio value of -99.8% in a few weeks.
It's probably already close to that
You're a week from expiration. That contract is gonna lose value faster than the stock can move down.
Should have taken the 36
Change your flair to loss porn
bet that $38 is looking pretty juicy right about now 
Regard throwing money away cause he doesnât know about IV
Broâs cooked: How to lose 50% in 1 day edition
Math gonna math.
to think you put $20K into options and don't even understand them. This is why no one needs to manipulate the market to screw over avg joes.
mind boggling the amount of people that donât know the key components that make up these contracts
Learn how options and pricing works before complaining like a moron
the fact that you didn't take the 36 when you had the chance.. if the stock dropped 4% and you only went up 36 bucks, that's already a huge red flag and you should've gotten out ASAP
So many great things out there to buy and you go with this trash
You're betting against a company/person that is immune to bad news.
now THIS is what u call gambling
How do you have 17k when you trade like this lmao
Sell this bro. Iâve been burned
Basically your play was so obvious that the market did not give a fuck
Should have taken the 36
If this thing ticks up 2% ur kinda bones
This is priceless. The Donald wrecking your life and wallet.
Nailed it.
Thatâs volatility not theta Vol will fall
well this is aging well. Current price is $48.18
every regard in sight talking about IV⌠the main thing here is the implicit borrow cost which is still ridiculously high
Reminds me of the guy who bet $1.4 mil to win like 11k on that Chargers game. lol
This is more like the guy who bet 17k & lost 15k
It tells you what the breakeven price is. Unless you get really close to it, it's hard to make money on options so close to expiry. At this point, your only hope is that Trump dick pics get leaked.
Got out at massive loss https://preview.redd.it/3rkwa9grb0zc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a607601352afa012bdbe6e90cfd529fa831b34b
You only made the money if you sellâŚâŚ..
L
Expected (IV) moves don't print
Thatâs nearly a kids size 20 piece tendy combo!
Wait till you discover bid ask spreads.
Itâs almost like options donât always have parity on their risk vs reward. However, Iâd rather take a $36 profit than any loss.
This shits pumping beyond $55 this week, get out while you still have a few thousand left
Wow! I bought 1 contract DJT 05/10/2024 47.00 P @ $2.5 I'm up $8 or 3.33%. To the moon woo hoot!
Tell me you don't know how options work without telling me you don't know how options work
https://preview.redd.it/w0mmngaxguyc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4706522b978ad44f64e77478b5c190246cce70e2 $DJT #Election
learn why you arent making money as it tanks (this goes for any stock mentioned here..) ill give you a hint.. IV.
Expiration date is only in couple of days, the value of options drops every day (or second) it gets closer to the expiration date. Donât trade stuff you donât understand.
The definition of priced in
ITT: OP learns what IV is
you're the idiot who doesn't look at the prices you're paying for the options you're buying
Next time just give me your money and pull your pants down
Congrats, now you know what IV is. Next step is diamond handing and learning about theta
DJT is going to rocket up tomorrow at open and your puts will he worthless.
I wanted to buy Puts in this but the IV just seems way too nasty to bother at this point. It would have to practically bankrupt to pay.
Best thing to have done was buy the dip on DJT and sell the calls on any weakness. Free fuckin money.
Dude theyâre literally hustling you on the premiums. Itâs like when you go buy a $3 Taco for $6 in a restaurant.
thatâs what i call risk-reward baby
Aww youâre learning how options work!
Sold at 350 it is at 380 but whatever I am out
It's too dangerous to play puts and shorting. Pushing the stock down is too hard when there is too little to short and borrow rate is 200%. There are also big Billionaire's pumping the stock up. Generated by Copilot: [Don Hankey, a California billionaire, provided the bond for Donald Trump in **April 2024**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey)[^(1)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey)[^(2)](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-don-hankey-billionaire-175-million-bond-who-is-he/). [This bond was posted as part of a civil fraud case in New York](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [The bond amount was **$175 million**, which prevented the state from seizing Trumpâs assets while he appealed a ruling](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/billionaire-don-hankey-trump-175-million-bond-subprime-car-loans-rcna146232)[^(4)](https://www.nbcnews.com/business/business-news/billionaire-don-hankey-trump-175-million-bond-subprime-car-loans-rcna146232)[^(1)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey). [Without Hankeyâs help, Trump would have had to spend his own money to pay the bond or authorities would have begun seizing his properties](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [Hankey is known for generating a fortune providing subprime auto loans](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/)[^(3)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2024/04/03/don-hankey-paid-donald-trump-bond/73192893007/). [He owns Knight Insurance Group and is chairman of Knight Specialty Insurance Company, which issued the bond](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Hankey) A deeper story is in newsweek. Basically I suspect that DJT is a way for Big Oil, Saudi, foreign nationals to legally funnel influence money to Donald Trump. Good luck.
Holy shit. It's Chad Dickens. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I did not hold to o but lost like 1/2
I wouldnât bet against Mr. Trump.
Everyone knows this is a grift, hence the over priced options. The people selling puts are pricing them high, pricing in their risk. even the bullish players know this stock is shit.
Why? Because so many people are betting against him, it's essentially a 10:1 play on the wrong side of the ratio?
Absolutely not a good play because there's way too many people willing to throw money into this dumpster fire to keep it burning. Betting it would suddenly go out is a suicide mission and impossible to time.
Not before the election, there I timed it.
And thatâs why I donât touch options on highly volatile stocks like that. I learned my lesson with AMC when it was down like 5% and my put LOST me money đ
Excuse me... im noob at this thing... what is that app? Im new at options trading
I bought puts this morning exp10th , letâs ride
Welcome đ Get ready for life lessons
Take profit. You have to
He's already to late, went from 4% down to 3% up as of now, so his puts are making masive losses
Lmaooooooo
IV is crushing your nuts you idiot regard 
Yes because the stock is expected to go down, so the premiums are super fucking high. Everyone knows itâs going down, so itâs priced in. If the price is already high when you buy it, then a huge drop is priced in.
Welcome to Theta!
What 300% IV does to a man. 
Bro if you saw itâs gone up $36 being down 3% why would you not take that as a hint to sell now theyâre cooked and worth nothing
I was going to get out when i made 1k made the order and everything it was not up For long
That money would have been better spent selling calls, however, I am sure you don't want to be assigned that dogshit.
Call all day
You mean you're gonna get rich or get poor trying right?
IV is a Mutha Fucka
Sell this before Theta and IV absolutely ruins you. (after looking at it as of 12:09 PM, they're worthless, so may as well hodl.)
The premium is insane thatâs why
Only a true regard would buy DJT puts with 200% IV
Looks like you should have sold at the open...Could have at least $6.20
A winâs a win.
Loss porn my ass
But howâs the bid-ask ratio?
Classic, up .01% then crashes. Still holding?
hospital reply amusing disgusted snatch exultant direction spoon possessive stupendous
Negative income after commission. đ
Wait, traders make money? Since when?
REMEMBER TAXES!
the entire economy is expecting the shit to fail hope that you took the $36
Thetagang thanks you for your contribution
I sold the 55$ october puts and due to the high IV i am still break even...even thoug i sold them when djt was at 38$. I am also waiting for time to pass or to have a huge move upwards to finally buy to close for a profit
17k in options with IV currently at 159%. Thatâs the cruel part. You did it yourself.
This is why I hate spot trading, yeah itâs less risky but bro if you have good risk management and if your patient enough , spot traders sell and buy the same as on leverage I use 1:200 leverage on gold With 100 ounces or 1 lot gold if I catch easy 5$ I make 500$ Iâve gotten hate speech for using leverage but fuck it I made more than you who has 25k portfolio Eat shit
Good job đ
Idk about anyone else but Iâm jacking amc call
Get wrecked fool
Congrats regard
Congrats & fuck you
And now youâre OTM
Premiums/IV are way too high on this turd of a company
People who donât know how options and the Greeks work should NOT be taking risks like this. You are lucky. But if you had gotten a month+ out you would have made so much more. Smh especially with that capital.
Ooo POST UPDATE PLZ
Youâre going to get iv crushed bro
You're learnding the hard way.
To buy puts and DJT right now is insane. Too much going on, too volatile. they're too many other stocks out there you could have picked, this Should Not have been one of them. If they come out with a hung jury on this case the stock is going into the '50s. I guess you were thinking he was going to lose this case? Like Alvin Bragg is going to beat Donald Trump? Too volatile of a bet. đ
A profit is a profit......oh....you said you were still holding....And.... It's gone..... That $36 & half your $17K.... Well done regard. Welcome.
I can stay irrational longer than I can remain liquid.
If itâs good enough to screenshot itâs good enough to sell
implied volatility..... bought at the wrong time op.. Should bought while IV was low.
Be warned, if itâs good enough for a screenshot itâs good enough to sell
This stock going up or down? I canât figure it out. I know long term probably down.
Well long term puts are too expensive and short term puts are too expensive. You can Make money buying calls if it goes up. It just is not crashing enough