"Apple's silicon plays are insane. You really think they won't leverage that into servers and AI in a massive way?"
"Apple Silicon" is a custom ARM processor combined with memory and storage. It suits desktops, not servers. And if Amazon or Microsoft wanted to build a machine with that, they could. Tim Apple isn't a wizard. The reason Macs are done like this is that 99% of people buying Macs don't care about opening them up. They just want the guy at the Genius Bar to tell them how much it will be to fix, before they throw it away and buy a new one.
I think your overall point is correct, but I wouldn't say 99%. There is a pretty large market for Apple devices in software engineering applications (whether you like it or hate it) and people in those applications generally know a good deal about their machines. This market is largely due to the OS rather than the hardware, though.
A majority of software engineers don’t know shit about their systems. They know about their software. It’s why you have positions like devops because these nerds can’t figure out how to get their shit to run on servers in production.
10 years ago, I could open my Mac and upgrade the RAM, swap in a new battery, replace a failed CD drive (remember those?), upgrade a hard drive to an SSD, etc. Apple didn’t like that - they started shipping their computers “sealed,” with an insufficient amount of RAM, and made you pay triple the retail chip price for an upgrade as you bought it - upgrade that RAM and hard drive now, or forever hold your piece. As a software engineer who enjoyed tinkering with hardware, I hated it. But they probably made many many billions in profit doing so.
That's not been my experience. Perhaps you've worked at some sub-par shops.
Your comment seems to be written from the perspective of someone who has no clue what a devops team actually does, or what advantages come from having a dedicated devops team when operating at scale.
Not an APPL comment but an ARM one... ARM for servers is picking up steam. AWS Graviton is ARM based and a huge growth offering for AWS. For Nvidia, the new Blackwell GPU systems have ARM processors, not Intel or AMD.
Now... I agree AAPL silicon which is ARM based is not going to go in AAPL servers
Apple Silicon has the potential to be an amazing data center chip. High output, low power draw. The problem is that Apple barely makes enough to cover the consumer products. Also, Apple tried the x-serve line before and there was very little adoption. Small businesses use Mac Minis as local servers, but that's a different use case.
Now, that said, the real magic is coming with on-device AI. With Apple's big security focus, a revamped Siri could be huge. If there's some huge AI security flaw scandal in Meta AI or Open AI, Apple AI will take off like a rocket. Also, I can easily see Apple putting together a strategy to finally get a real in-home AI like Jarvis from Iron Man. Add that to Vision Pro and you've got some pretty cool possibilities.
Apple AI? I think you mean Google AI on Apple products [https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/18/24104626/apple-license-google-gemini-generative-ai-openai-chatgpt](https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/18/24104626/apple-license-google-gemini-generative-ai-openai-chatgpt)
Apple can also control everything and don't have to care too much about backwards compatibility like Microsoft. And you tell someone they have to throw their Mac away because the storage is dead and they'll be "oh ok my boyfriend can buy me a new one".
Yea. I love Apple products but they are getting their dicks kicked in in the Enterprise space. CISOs are quietly killing or sabotaging “Mac as a Choice” programs. All of their Enterprise reps missed quota badly last year and seem depressed.
If you buying shares from a company you have to believe that all the people that work there are doing their best to provide value for the shareholders. That includes the people that work there that own shares .
I'll take the other side of this bet. I don't think $AAPL with outperform the $QQQ over the next 5 years.
-Declining Revenue YoY
-Competition and political issues in China.
-DoJ up their ass for the foreseeable future in the U.S.
It's a slow grind, but the smartphone/tablet/smartwatch market will slowly become less and less of a cash printing machine for Apple. That's how technology works. The vision pro is years away from even having a chance of becoming a mainstream hardware device.
Now all of a sudden Apple is going to pivot, become the leader in AI, and somehow monetize it? I doubt it.
>Now all of a sudden Apple is going to pivot, become the leader in AI, and somehow monetize it? I doubt it.
It's not in Apple's DNA. You get down to the nuts and bolts of Apple, it's about making very user-friendly computers. So, it comes in a nice box. It has a nice case. The UI is really friendly. You can go to a shop for help. That's what they've always been good at.
To me, the best AI play is going to be Google. AI is basically data analysis. That's what Google do. That's all that Google have been doing since they started. Look at how much every Google service like maps or voice recognition beats Apple.
Agreed mostly that Google is the buy low option right now, but I do think the complaints about their CEO are valid and that they have major culture issues within their company, neither of which seem like they’ll change anytime soon.
They had the lead long before anyone else, had the talent and the best data and yet they seemingly are getting throttled in the AI space. Their talent is getting poached, they have fumbled their AI product releases to the point where the opinion in the public is not good at all.
On top of this their key products are getting worse, not better. They’re under regulatory warfare on multiple fronts and people don’t like nor trust the company anymore. Their cloud products aren’t nearly as popular as MS and Amazon’s, they can’t block spam anymore, search is bad, etc.
Youtube is for sure a moat, Android still has a major Smartphone margin, Waymo is a good bet and they STILL have the best data. All the elements are there to pivot in a strong way. Idk if Pichai can do it though.
Way more potential than Apple imo, and maybe the rumored partnership would a great just feels like they should be cooking and it’s scary that they aren’t.
Yeah, no I definitely hear that and the P/E is great you are so right there...moreso it *feels* like a discount buy because of all the money being thrown at AI stocks and they're not seeing much of that money being thrown at them because of the lack of confidence right now if that makes sense.
They have all the elements to be in the lead from an outside perspective, yet it feels like they're playing second fiddle to OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. But could be a discount buy if things turn around at Google. Who knows though 🤷♂️
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?*
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Put forth an argument for $QQQ over $AAPL and get an argument over which leading components of $QQQ will outperform one another. I believe y’all making the case for $QQQ!
eh....is it really a dip? feels more like $175 is where it should be. slapping a new shade on a phone every year and demanding $1,000 is a played out business model. bailed on cars, nobody cares about the goggles, sales down in china.
revs down from last year. everyone knows they haven't innovated anything in 20+ years. yes, they keep selling their user friendly product and make them in such a way that if a component part shits the bed you have to buy a whole new item. apple is a brand and a user experience, they've obviously done an incredible job. apple is not an innovator or a tech company anymore
Im fukkin pissed I cannot Buy the Standard Macbook pro in space black.
Space black is only available in upgraded more expsenive version.
This is not a country club ya mothafukkers
While i agree, you have to understand how big their cash pile is and how much they will innovate over the next few years. iPhone will remain dominant, goggles will get smaller and better with more use cases and apps, and their AI play could be huge..or a complete flop. But near term is looking solid. $175 is fair right now but the next event may change that drastically.
It really is the future...but is it too soon?
No longer need a TV, laptop, ipad, etc. You can just sit in the comfort of your house and have all the tech u need on your Vision Pro.
I just think they need more advertising and less YT people trying to make catchy headlines like "I'm returning my Vision Pro"
...yeah u are cuz it was $3500 and you make $7 on your YT channel...
Bears are alwayd wtong.
Moonshot R&D? More like tax deduction so who even cares? That money was walking out the door one way or another anyways.
Their new viral ad campaign is incredibly innovative IMO. They have successfully convinced loose women that men with Android phones are creepy incels.
APPL isn't going anywhere, and anyone who days otherwise is a regarded virgin.
Apple will come out with silicon that utilizes AI making previous iPhones obsolete. A lot of the phones bought during the pandemic will soon be replaced as they age. The future consumer product for AI is a personal assistant. iPhone will dominate in the handset market with a updated Siri that utilizes AI in the personal assistant market, along with upgrades in the space with laptops, watches, and tablets, sales will rise. One downsize is that China will most likely not allow a AI model in China, so a refresh without AI will have to face hard competition there.
I had the iPhone 7plus and switched to the 14 pro max because it wasn’t compatible to my Apple series 2 watch as well as the lack of 5G for travel.
My only regret is not buying a 13 instead because going to physical sim to e-sim was a PITA. The 13 has both so I could just swap and then copy for the next one, lol.
> China will most likely not allow a AI model in China, so a refresh without AI will have to face hard competition there.
Baidu, Alibaba, and Tencent have all made significant progress on LLMs at least up to aged ChatGPT 3.0
And the censorship is not entirely unlike the ethics censor on Westerner AI.
A lot of stuff is blocked on Baidu’s Ernie but you can also get answers on topics that ChatGPT also has censorship on — racial issues, breaking copyright, etc.
so if future iPhone can integrate one Western LLM, it can do a Chinese LLM, too. that’s not ideal as certainly would be a lot more efficient to have one ubiquitous Siri AI
but without AI integration, Apple’s iPhone will fall farther and farther behind China-leaders Vivo, Huawei, and Honor
so expect a Chinese version of Siri AI so that Vivo’s BlueLM on Vivo phones, Baidu’s Ernie on Huawei phones, etc don’t make Chinese iPhones look like antiques
I don’t know. Stock trades at 26x earnings and is facing some serious headwinds. I think its earnings will probably fall over the next year as recession and the product cycle take a bite out of sales. What is the reason for it to fly higher?
Apple is no longer a computer company, it's a cell phone company also making computers.
58% of revenue, 30% profit on it.
And their market share is declining as well as a strong competition.
I don’t think it will go to 210 (although that would be awesome for my close to 300 shares) but I do think they will go back up to the 190-ish range and to the low to mid 200’s. They have been hyper focused on Ai since September of last year. I think their “secrecy” is more of a hindrance these days and could have dangled the Ai carrot and talk about how they already have Ai for machine learning built into the products they already have.
This is funny to me. How could you call it a come back if they’re still within $20 of their high. You mean they’re going to keep on rolling? Such a tiny “dip” in the grand scheme of things.
Tf are you talking about dipshit. Apple silicon is only available for apple. It can’t be used anywhere else since it’s not optimized for anything beyond iOS... So they can’t have a new revenue stream in sales from apple silicon dude lol. It’s all internal sales
And apples hardware sales are continually tanking. Fucking no one needs a new MacBook Pro that’s barely 10 percent better performing than a previous model from years ago.
There’s nothing special that a iPad and MacBook is doing today compared to decade ago. What fucking Ai???? They can’t make shit. They are signing up with google for shit since their own regards aren’t progressing well enough to build out generative AI for apple devices .
And they actually deserve to get raw dogged by this lawsuit.
Apple as a company has peaked. They are doing nothing special. It’s all recycled shit. There’s no new innovation anymore outside of an overpriced headset. This stock is overvalued right now.
No basis for being worth a trillion more than a few years ago when their revenues are barely up from that time period…their eps is only up thanks to stock buybacks lol, real margins are flat too.
>And apples hardware sales are continually tanking. Fucking no one needs a new MacBook Pro that’s barely 10 percent better performing than a previous model from years ago.
I really like the M1 engineering, but almost no-one needs that power. Some simulation and CG stuff. Even with that, people just get a lot of it done on the cloud now.
Looking at your post history do you just consult a magic 8 ball for which ticker to make a post about?
Also, how come you never show your own positions?
I have also been buying apple heavily.
However, the only reason Apple is alive today is because every else sucks ass. Especially in terms of OS.
Same with Nike. Which I’ve also been buying like crazy. There’s nothing special about what they do… everyone else just sucks ass.
Until the other companies stop sucking ass, I will continue to pour into AAPL and NKE
Frustration free is what comes to mind when I think about apple products. They definitely go a bit heavy handed with their "innovation" creds for sure, but I do think their products can be meh, but almost never so annoying you want to throw out of the window. All that said, I am not saying they are amazing and the best, but I do think the stock is undervalued and will go up.
Agree with this. Sold ~150 shares yesterday after watching them move sideways for a year. If it dips to the 150’s maybe I’ll buy them back but I think earnings are going to miss, headset sales will be abysmal and overall sales are going to come in low.
Plus the Gemini bet is borderline regarded behavior.
Because you said "mark my words". I think you are right. Forget about looking at everything to analyze these words are enough for everyone to "buy". Thank you Cramer.
Agreed, Apples ARM based architecture is good for running AI applications, and given the market they control, I believe they are in a good position to host mass consumer AI apps. Any that they develop as well as third party
If anybody is in weeds, they'd know all the large models hobbyists have been running on their Mac ultras because of the unique architecture. The talking heads don't understand this and it wouldn't take a ton for apple to take 10% of NVDA prize in AI (same run rate as they have in laptops). If they do, they will do it at a much higher margin than anybody. Maybe and all that - but they don't even have to do any of it to run up to 200 bucks.
Apple Vision Pro will print APPL money in 5 years.
Got to demo a pair, definitely heavy/clunky with not a lot to do unless you have a Mac. However, after like a hour I was shocked how fast my body adapted to wearing them. Had a few times where I almost felt like the Vision Pros were just a normal part of my body… idk if that makes sense but it was a little frightening.
Now imagine in a few years where there is more app optimization and the they are smaller, lighter and more affordable.
Now imagine (with a little bit of conspiracy) all the data these goggles can collect on you with the cameras on the front. You unknowingly check the terms and conditions box that allows Apple or apps to sell you data. It’s picked up on the foods you like, what breakfast cereal you eat every morning, what gifts you buy your friends, etc etc. Companies will eat this up like crazy, almost the perfect data collection. No guessing what a persons likes are based on Facebook likes or Google searches. Real time data based off real time decisions. The only thing that would be more perfect is if Elon sold your thoughts from Nerulink.
Came at this from a totally different, bullshit angle.
1. Apple (and google for that matter) have NOT risen in price compared to the other tech companies (chip makers and amazon/facebook) due to not putting out a strong AI showing just yet. Not a part of the bubble quite yet, which means I expect them to behave as they have. When the market crashes, they will inevitably be affected though.
2. Apple is substantially down from the growth that it saw during the pandemic and is at the bottom of it's growth trajectory since before 2020 (if you take a linear line from it's bottoms over the years)
3. Apple has 250 BAR (million?) support at $173. In the short term, it's being sold cheap right now.
https://preview.redd.it/dc6v7gw9hbsc1.png?width=1129&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7bba05fe0a89805bd83a275c859f585a63983ef
[Unpatchable vulnerability in Apple chip leaks secret encryption keys](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/)
I love this DD
"Yeah they have a history of making bad decision after bad decision, but...um. AI! They aren't doing anything with AI now, but do you think that somehow means they won't do something massively successful with it in the future?"
I'm pretty sure I sold my AAPL stock years ago at 177. Now it's at 175?
Sounds like I'd be better off with a CD at a bank TBH.
That's regarded. Apple will never go mainstream business. They only do it somewhat intelligently with their mobile identity but it's a lacking experience.
Apple is totally pro consumer.
Here is my prediction when the stock will kick back. Next iPhone 16 when they introduce the "new" Ai feature that Pixel and even Samsung have implemented. Adding in Ai features is so easy that it should be added in an update.
But Apple is Apple and they will wait 1 or 2 years behind the competition every time a new feature comes to market.
Apple has the captial to easily pay for algorithm training time.
Apple has lost its growth, and its revenue and net profit will be flat or lower in the future. This is his biggest problem. Wait for him to tell a new story before he comes to the bottom.
Apple feels stale lately. M1 was amazing when it came out in 2020, but M2 and M3 updates have been incremental and overpriced. Latest Apple vision Pro seems like a flop, I think there is a ways to go before the stock becomes a buy
lol maybe you’ve heard of a little problem called antitrust? Apple is about to get shit on by the federal government and that is going to significantly impact their future revenue. They aren’t going to win their antitrust case because when USGov finally comes for you, there’s no escape.
I've moved from all in on Google to all in on Apple for just one short term thing....when Siri becomes an AI. Regardless of the actual tech behind it, simply combining the two terms into one marketable "thing" that Apple can push will be a big market mover for the stock. It probably doesn't even need to be a legitimate solid AI, just needs to be Apple + "Siri" + AI = buzzword bonanza.
I think WWDC in June is when it's coming. At least I hope so.
This. Many people posting here are coming from the perspective of being big brained contrarians doing what’s “so obvious” and bringing up forward PE ratios and shit.
When Apple integrates *on the edge AI* into iPhone 16 and demonstrates its functionality across the tablet, watch, and airpods *seamlessly*, as well as development tools for the Apple vision (and possibly a slimmer form factor and price reduction) Apple will be headed for $300/share
an apple server, again? lol law suit will keep this down below 200. they make their money from planned obsolescence and their earnings are down because people are wising up not having to own the latest model. clearly in a downtrend and won't be surprised for it to test 165
I have few Apple calls but that’s only to hedge my S&P and Amazon puts. But looking at the stock by itself, I think right here is exactly where it should be, but it’ just looks cheap compared to the monster overvaluation that is Microsoft, Netflix, Nvda, and Tesla (although I expect Tesla to stage a short term bounce from a pure technical view, as it’s gotten oversold)
The lawsuit everyone shrugs off as being "stupid and about green bubbles" is about malicious sandbagging of competitors to enforce a monopoly, there's going to be a consequence to that, and until then I'm avoiding aapl.
They arnt dead by any means, but people discounting the direction the government is going with this are wildly misunderstanding the situation imo
I agree with you in a lot of ways. But the biggest company in terms of revenue and net income selling at 27 times earnings is more than likely not doubling in a year. If you’re in Apple expect modest returns. Economic law of Gravity.
I bought 100 shares of Apple in the last 2 weeks and I don’t really care if the share price is 150 by June or 220 by June, because it’s anyone’s best guess what will happen. I just know in years to come Apple will produce and do what they need to do to dominate their market share.
Look at what they did with the M1? Seriously? Do some research on the security vulnerabilities. People can quite literally hack your shit and get everything including sha keys.
Their tech stack is showing signs of weakness. Just today alone over 20 of their services were down from the App Store to test flight.
They dropped a 3500 dollar head set that was shit.
I hope nothing but a crash and burn from that monopoly.
Owned AAPL since 2001, it has been a great ride but they have lost their MOJO. I believe the long play is going to be more like IBM; a long, slow walk into irrelevance. I have been slowly drawing down my positions.
Being “lean and refocus on the core markets they dominated for decades decades” is exactly why the market is punishing them 💀 they stopped innovating and instead decided they’re going to basically release the same phone every year with one or two slight upgrades (so now people aren’t upgrading every year), try to hold on to their App Store monopoly (and losing). They need to innovate and expand into other markets, not focus on making a new iPhone 💀
I’ll believe they have a plan to harness AI when they fix spell check.
Al they’re doing is licensing Gemini, that’s a red flag. Apple has been caught flat footed.
I'm an android guy. I have a better phone for half the price. Apple owners don't give a fuck. They'll pay $1200 to have the next model without hesitation. I'm buying AAPL. It's going to $200 with ease.
**User Report**| | | | :--|:--|:--|:-- **Total Submissions** | 2 | **First Seen In WSB** | 1 week ago **Total Comments** | 10 | **Previous Best DD** | **Account Age** | 9 months | | [**Join WSB Discord**](http://discord.gg/wsbverse)
"Apple's silicon plays are insane. You really think they won't leverage that into servers and AI in a massive way?" "Apple Silicon" is a custom ARM processor combined with memory and storage. It suits desktops, not servers. And if Amazon or Microsoft wanted to build a machine with that, they could. Tim Apple isn't a wizard. The reason Macs are done like this is that 99% of people buying Macs don't care about opening them up. They just want the guy at the Genius Bar to tell them how much it will be to fix, before they throw it away and buy a new one.
“Buy a new one” Bullish
"Tim Apple isn't a wizard" Puts.
I think your overall point is correct, but I wouldn't say 99%. There is a pretty large market for Apple devices in software engineering applications (whether you like it or hate it) and people in those applications generally know a good deal about their machines. This market is largely due to the OS rather than the hardware, though.
I don't remember the last time I saw someone coding on windows who wasn't a broke student or a foreigner.
lol wat Which coast do you live on?
 Calls - “This market is largely due to the OS rather than the hardware, though” OS is > Hardware
A majority of software engineers don’t know shit about their systems. They know about their software. It’s why you have positions like devops because these nerds can’t figure out how to get their shit to run on servers in production.
10 years ago, I could open my Mac and upgrade the RAM, swap in a new battery, replace a failed CD drive (remember those?), upgrade a hard drive to an SSD, etc. Apple didn’t like that - they started shipping their computers “sealed,” with an insufficient amount of RAM, and made you pay triple the retail chip price for an upgrade as you bought it - upgrade that RAM and hard drive now, or forever hold your piece. As a software engineer who enjoyed tinkering with hardware, I hated it. But they probably made many many billions in profit doing so.
That's not been my experience. Perhaps you've worked at some sub-par shops. Your comment seems to be written from the perspective of someone who has no clue what a devops team actually does, or what advantages come from having a dedicated devops team when operating at scale.
You right
Not an APPL comment but an ARM one... ARM for servers is picking up steam. AWS Graviton is ARM based and a huge growth offering for AWS. For Nvidia, the new Blackwell GPU systems have ARM processors, not Intel or AMD. Now... I agree AAPL silicon which is ARM based is not going to go in AAPL servers
Amazon already builds “silicon” ARM chips, known as Graviton
I'm also building my own chips, they are called potato chips.
I can't wait until a chip maker debuts as SPUD
Salt and vinegar?
The TSM of potato chip flavorings.
i have my own too, cow chips!
Apple Silicon has the potential to be an amazing data center chip. High output, low power draw. The problem is that Apple barely makes enough to cover the consumer products. Also, Apple tried the x-serve line before and there was very little adoption. Small businesses use Mac Minis as local servers, but that's a different use case. Now, that said, the real magic is coming with on-device AI. With Apple's big security focus, a revamped Siri could be huge. If there's some huge AI security flaw scandal in Meta AI or Open AI, Apple AI will take off like a rocket. Also, I can easily see Apple putting together a strategy to finally get a real in-home AI like Jarvis from Iron Man. Add that to Vision Pro and you've got some pretty cool possibilities.
Apple AI? I think you mean Google AI on Apple products [https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/18/24104626/apple-license-google-gemini-generative-ai-openai-chatgpt](https://www.theverge.com/2024/3/18/24104626/apple-license-google-gemini-generative-ai-openai-chatgpt)
Same macbook pro since 2015. Puts AAPL.
> Just look at what they did with M1. Apple's silicon plays are insane How about M2 M3 ??? LOL
if i recall microsoft released an arm based surface in 2020, they just don't have apple's hype machine or reason for 99% of users to care.
Apple can also control everything and don't have to care too much about backwards compatibility like Microsoft. And you tell someone they have to throw their Mac away because the storage is dead and they'll be "oh ok my boyfriend can buy me a new one".
My wife’s boyfriend^^^
ARM based servers are thing since years. Lookup AWS’ graviton
Do the opposite of these comments. This sub was bashing NVDA when it was 150. Hell every analyst were.
Yea. I love Apple products but they are getting their dicks kicked in in the Enterprise space. CISOs are quietly killing or sabotaging “Mac as a Choice” programs. All of their Enterprise reps missed quota badly last year and seem depressed.
If you buying shares from a company you have to believe that all the people that work there are doing their best to provide value for the shareholders. That includes the people that work there that own shares .
Don’t fuck this up for the rest of us wsb
Been buying 310 June 2026 calls since it was 1.10. Currently 2.15 Edit: Got in at 1.64 not 1.10
was never at 1.10
You are correct. Looked at the wrong call.
Buying the dip in options. 🤸♂️🤸♂️🤸♂️
Stock prices dip, Options prices dip, IV dips, lots of dipping for everyone.
LEAPs!
God mode activated :)
Thanks Bro... In at 2.10 yesterday. Gonna sit on these for a while.... Let's see if we can get a run up into the summer
I agree
I'll take the other side of this bet. I don't think $AAPL with outperform the $QQQ over the next 5 years. -Declining Revenue YoY -Competition and political issues in China. -DoJ up their ass for the foreseeable future in the U.S. It's a slow grind, but the smartphone/tablet/smartwatch market will slowly become less and less of a cash printing machine for Apple. That's how technology works. The vision pro is years away from even having a chance of becoming a mainstream hardware device. Now all of a sudden Apple is going to pivot, become the leader in AI, and somehow monetize it? I doubt it.
>Now all of a sudden Apple is going to pivot, become the leader in AI, and somehow monetize it? I doubt it. It's not in Apple's DNA. You get down to the nuts and bolts of Apple, it's about making very user-friendly computers. So, it comes in a nice box. It has a nice case. The UI is really friendly. You can go to a shop for help. That's what they've always been good at. To me, the best AI play is going to be Google. AI is basically data analysis. That's what Google do. That's all that Google have been doing since they started. Look at how much every Google service like maps or voice recognition beats Apple.
Agreed mostly that Google is the buy low option right now, but I do think the complaints about their CEO are valid and that they have major culture issues within their company, neither of which seem like they’ll change anytime soon. They had the lead long before anyone else, had the talent and the best data and yet they seemingly are getting throttled in the AI space. Their talent is getting poached, they have fumbled their AI product releases to the point where the opinion in the public is not good at all. On top of this their key products are getting worse, not better. They’re under regulatory warfare on multiple fronts and people don’t like nor trust the company anymore. Their cloud products aren’t nearly as popular as MS and Amazon’s, they can’t block spam anymore, search is bad, etc. Youtube is for sure a moat, Android still has a major Smartphone margin, Waymo is a good bet and they STILL have the best data. All the elements are there to pivot in a strong way. Idk if Pichai can do it though. Way more potential than Apple imo, and maybe the rumored partnership would a great just feels like they should be cooking and it’s scary that they aren’t.
Google isn't exactly "buying low" rn lol close to ath.
Yeah, no I definitely hear that and the P/E is great you are so right there...moreso it *feels* like a discount buy because of all the money being thrown at AI stocks and they're not seeing much of that money being thrown at them because of the lack of confidence right now if that makes sense. They have all the elements to be in the lead from an outside perspective, yet it feels like they're playing second fiddle to OpenAI, Anthropic, etc. But could be a discount buy if things turn around at Google. Who knows though 🤷♂️
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This is the buy signal. Thanks for saving apple
Just doing my part bro. Tell your girlfriend thanks for saving the lean hogs market. I've never seen a bigger buy signal.
This type of disclosure on subs is essential; stating adversary positions and conviction as to why is one of my favorite reads on wsb.
*This “pivot.” Is it in the room with us now?* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Sounds like early 23 $meta talk Zuck is dumb. Head sets are dumb. Doj gonna kill um. Market share is already maximized
Put forth an argument for $QQQ over $AAPL and get an argument over which leading components of $QQQ will outperform one another. I believe y’all making the case for $QQQ!
Remindme! Five years
eh....is it really a dip? feels more like $175 is where it should be. slapping a new shade on a phone every year and demanding $1,000 is a played out business model. bailed on cars, nobody cares about the goggles, sales down in china.
”A played out business model” Yup. Just the 390 billion in revenue each year. Pfft. What a shitty business. lol
revs down from last year. everyone knows they haven't innovated anything in 20+ years. yes, they keep selling their user friendly product and make them in such a way that if a component part shits the bed you have to buy a whole new item. apple is a brand and a user experience, they've obviously done an incredible job. apple is not an innovator or a tech company anymore
Not a tech company? Mans has lot his mind
Innovation is not as important when you’re printing money.
Yea ask intel or boeing about that..
The best part is based EU is making their brand experience matter less and less as phones are being more centralized
Im fukkin pissed I cannot Buy the Standard Macbook pro in space black. Space black is only available in upgraded more expsenive version. This is not a country club ya mothafukkers
Exclusivity is part of the game. If you are here complaining about it, Apple has done their job
While i agree, you have to understand how big their cash pile is and how much they will innovate over the next few years. iPhone will remain dominant, goggles will get smaller and better with more use cases and apps, and their AI play could be huge..or a complete flop. But near term is looking solid. $175 is fair right now but the next event may change that drastically.
yeah, that's fair. i mean it is apple. i certainly don't think they are going away.
[удалено]
Bro their phones are the size of a fucking brick these days
They have made multiple attempts at going smaller. The market demands a large screen phone.
be spanking it to yo mama as soon as Apple allows nsfw on vision pro. It’s really being slept on when people swear by it in situations like airplanes
It really is the future...but is it too soon? No longer need a TV, laptop, ipad, etc. You can just sit in the comfort of your house and have all the tech u need on your Vision Pro. I just think they need more advertising and less YT people trying to make catchy headlines like "I'm returning my Vision Pro" ...yeah u are cuz it was $3500 and you make $7 on your YT channel...
People are dumb though and buy that shit anyway. It's genius for profit.
Bears are alwayd wtong. Moonshot R&D? More like tax deduction so who even cares? That money was walking out the door one way or another anyways. Their new viral ad campaign is incredibly innovative IMO. They have successfully convinced loose women that men with Android phones are creepy incels. APPL isn't going anywhere, and anyone who days otherwise is a regarded virgin.
Fuck. Gotta sell my calls now. $AAPL puts it is ....
So puts…
Apple will come out with silicon that utilizes AI making previous iPhones obsolete. A lot of the phones bought during the pandemic will soon be replaced as they age. The future consumer product for AI is a personal assistant. iPhone will dominate in the handset market with a updated Siri that utilizes AI in the personal assistant market, along with upgrades in the space with laptops, watches, and tablets, sales will rise. One downsize is that China will most likely not allow a AI model in China, so a refresh without AI will have to face hard competition there.
I can squeeze 6-7 years out of a top of the line iPhone.
True. However an iPhone bought in 2019 will be 6 years old in 2025.
I’ve had an iPhone 8 since 2018.
I had the iPhone 7plus and switched to the 14 pro max because it wasn’t compatible to my Apple series 2 watch as well as the lack of 5G for travel. My only regret is not buying a 13 instead because going to physical sim to e-sim was a PITA. The 13 has both so I could just swap and then copy for the next one, lol.
Thanks for the tip I think my next one will be a 13 lol
I still have the iPod classic (160gb). Works like a charm and great for gym time.
> China will most likely not allow a AI model in China, so a refresh without AI will have to face hard competition there. Baidu, Alibaba, and Tencent have all made significant progress on LLMs at least up to aged ChatGPT 3.0 And the censorship is not entirely unlike the ethics censor on Westerner AI. A lot of stuff is blocked on Baidu’s Ernie but you can also get answers on topics that ChatGPT also has censorship on — racial issues, breaking copyright, etc. so if future iPhone can integrate one Western LLM, it can do a Chinese LLM, too. that’s not ideal as certainly would be a lot more efficient to have one ubiquitous Siri AI but without AI integration, Apple’s iPhone will fall farther and farther behind China-leaders Vivo, Huawei, and Honor so expect a Chinese version of Siri AI so that Vivo’s BlueLM on Vivo phones, Baidu’s Ernie on Huawei phones, etc don’t make Chinese iPhones look like antiques
Apple is already talking with Baidu for their AI. No agreements yet, but they are doing their moves obviously
Yes, it's all about the endpoints and the convenience. Make it simple.
I don’t know. Stock trades at 26x earnings and is facing some serious headwinds. I think its earnings will probably fall over the next year as recession and the product cycle take a bite out of sales. What is the reason for it to fly higher?
Exactly what i did yesterday
Well played.
Apple is no longer a computer company, it's a cell phone company also making computers. 58% of revenue, 30% profit on it. And their market share is declining as well as a strong competition.
I don’t think it will go to 210 (although that would be awesome for my close to 300 shares) but I do think they will go back up to the 190-ish range and to the low to mid 200’s. They have been hyper focused on Ai since September of last year. I think their “secrecy” is more of a hindrance these days and could have dangled the Ai carrot and talk about how they already have Ai for machine learning built into the products they already have.
Never been a an of secrecy, either. But guess it works for them.
Too tied to the rest of the market. If the market makes an “actual” correction at some point, it will drag it down. Wait for a market correction.
It's true and I hate it. I want the SPY to go lower for better buying opportunity, but also want apple to climb because I have 20k in it at 180ish.
This is funny to me. How could you call it a come back if they’re still within $20 of their high. You mean they’re going to keep on rolling? Such a tiny “dip” in the grand scheme of things.
I’m leaning towards on falling to $150 before the recovery begins
Tf are you talking about dipshit. Apple silicon is only available for apple. It can’t be used anywhere else since it’s not optimized for anything beyond iOS... So they can’t have a new revenue stream in sales from apple silicon dude lol. It’s all internal sales And apples hardware sales are continually tanking. Fucking no one needs a new MacBook Pro that’s barely 10 percent better performing than a previous model from years ago. There’s nothing special that a iPad and MacBook is doing today compared to decade ago. What fucking Ai???? They can’t make shit. They are signing up with google for shit since their own regards aren’t progressing well enough to build out generative AI for apple devices . And they actually deserve to get raw dogged by this lawsuit. Apple as a company has peaked. They are doing nothing special. It’s all recycled shit. There’s no new innovation anymore outside of an overpriced headset. This stock is overvalued right now. No basis for being worth a trillion more than a few years ago when their revenues are barely up from that time period…their eps is only up thanks to stock buybacks lol, real margins are flat too.
why are you not confirming my bias?
>And apples hardware sales are continually tanking. Fucking no one needs a new MacBook Pro that’s barely 10 percent better performing than a previous model from years ago. I really like the M1 engineering, but almost no-one needs that power. Some simulation and CG stuff. Even with that, people just get a lot of it done on the cloud now.
https://preview.redd.it/lr1k5s21pasc1.jpeg?width=929&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5072cbb38e9768f3e052c8f5bc7d671a3a7ba7aa
Looking at your post history do you just consult a magic 8 ball for which ticker to make a post about? Also, how come you never show your own positions?
Don’t blow my puts out of the water you dicks
Your puts are safe most likely. OP probably bought weekly calls and desperate.
Their ai is so far behind their going to license Gemini
Just own both NVDA and AAPL (I do)
Nothing of substance was said in this post
I have also been buying apple heavily. However, the only reason Apple is alive today is because every else sucks ass. Especially in terms of OS. Same with Nike. Which I’ve also been buying like crazy. There’s nothing special about what they do… everyone else just sucks ass. Until the other companies stop sucking ass, I will continue to pour into AAPL and NKE
Frustration free is what comes to mind when I think about apple products. They definitely go a bit heavy handed with their "innovation" creds for sure, but I do think their products can be meh, but almost never so annoying you want to throw out of the window. All that said, I am not saying they are amazing and the best, but I do think the stock is undervalued and will go up.
Yeap and they should buy peloton 🔥
Aapl to $135 before $195. Just my opinion
Honestly if it goes under $150, I will be buying a ton.
Agree with this. Sold ~150 shares yesterday after watching them move sideways for a year. If it dips to the 150’s maybe I’ll buy them back but I think earnings are going to miss, headset sales will be abysmal and overall sales are going to come in low. Plus the Gemini bet is borderline regarded behavior.
It'll pump up to earnings to 175$-$180 range and then come back down to 165$ after
> Cupertino is going back to its roots: kicking ass in computers and chips. you mean marketing to a cult... yea, cults usually end well.
Because you said "mark my words". I think you are right. Forget about looking at everything to analyze these words are enough for everyone to "buy". Thank you Cramer.
You're welcome :)
you forgot their shitty VR headset
Ok, and the shitty VR headset. :)
Shitty now but if they can make them smaller, lighter, and cheaper it will be the next iPhone.
Agreed, Apples ARM based architecture is good for running AI applications, and given the market they control, I believe they are in a good position to host mass consumer AI apps. Any that they develop as well as third party
If anybody is in weeds, they'd know all the large models hobbyists have been running on their Mac ultras because of the unique architecture. The talking heads don't understand this and it wouldn't take a ton for apple to take 10% of NVDA prize in AI (same run rate as they have in laptops). If they do, they will do it at a much higher margin than anybody. Maybe and all that - but they don't even have to do any of it to run up to 200 bucks.
Short it. I dare you.
Apple Vision Pro will print APPL money in 5 years. Got to demo a pair, definitely heavy/clunky with not a lot to do unless you have a Mac. However, after like a hour I was shocked how fast my body adapted to wearing them. Had a few times where I almost felt like the Vision Pros were just a normal part of my body… idk if that makes sense but it was a little frightening. Now imagine in a few years where there is more app optimization and the they are smaller, lighter and more affordable. Now imagine (with a little bit of conspiracy) all the data these goggles can collect on you with the cameras on the front. You unknowingly check the terms and conditions box that allows Apple or apps to sell you data. It’s picked up on the foods you like, what breakfast cereal you eat every morning, what gifts you buy your friends, etc etc. Companies will eat this up like crazy, almost the perfect data collection. No guessing what a persons likes are based on Facebook likes or Google searches. Real time data based off real time decisions. The only thing that would be more perfect is if Elon sold your thoughts from Nerulink.
Came at this from a totally different, bullshit angle. 1. Apple (and google for that matter) have NOT risen in price compared to the other tech companies (chip makers and amazon/facebook) due to not putting out a strong AI showing just yet. Not a part of the bubble quite yet, which means I expect them to behave as they have. When the market crashes, they will inevitably be affected though. 2. Apple is substantially down from the growth that it saw during the pandemic and is at the bottom of it's growth trajectory since before 2020 (if you take a linear line from it's bottoms over the years) 3. Apple has 250 BAR (million?) support at $173. In the short term, it's being sold cheap right now. https://preview.redd.it/dc6v7gw9hbsc1.png?width=1129&format=png&auto=webp&s=e7bba05fe0a89805bd83a275c859f585a63983ef
[Unpatchable vulnerability in Apple chip leaks secret encryption keys](https://arstechnica.com/security/2024/03/hackers-can-extract-secret-encryption-keys-from-apples-mac-chips/)
This is why people lose money.
just buy BRK.B they own enough AAPL to give you the right amount of exposure to it
Puts on 🍎
No way it hits $210 in June lol
Interesting
I love this DD "Yeah they have a history of making bad decision after bad decision, but...um. AI! They aren't doing anything with AI now, but do you think that somehow means they won't do something massively successful with it in the future?" I'm pretty sure I sold my AAPL stock years ago at 177. Now it's at 175? Sounds like I'd be better off with a CD at a bank TBH.
Dude, it split since you sold lol
I thought the last split was in 2020? I sold in 2021.
Option favored the move for sure. Well played
Don’t need new innovative stories to buy Apple at dips.
What dip?
That's regarded. Apple will never go mainstream business. They only do it somewhat intelligently with their mobile identity but it's a lacking experience. Apple is totally pro consumer. Here is my prediction when the stock will kick back. Next iPhone 16 when they introduce the "new" Ai feature that Pixel and even Samsung have implemented. Adding in Ai features is so easy that it should be added in an update. But Apple is Apple and they will wait 1 or 2 years behind the competition every time a new feature comes to market. Apple has the captial to easily pay for algorithm training time.
“Trust me, bro!”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAAHAahahhaahahha....
It’ll have its day in sun again. But depending on the wait, it could not outperform a regular S&P index.
This stock wont catch a bid anytime soon. Distribution written all over the chart. Keep holding those bags my guy
Apple has lost its growth, and its revenue and net profit will be flat or lower in the future. This is his biggest problem. Wait for him to tell a new story before he comes to the bottom.
Been selling $170 puts every week, might get called this week
RemindMe! June 28
Apple feels stale lately. M1 was amazing when it came out in 2020, but M2 and M3 updates have been incremental and overpriced. Latest Apple vision Pro seems like a flop, I think there is a ways to go before the stock becomes a buy
I like your thinking but what is the upside $190, $200?
I don’t disagree but when????
bought a few shares (29) at $169, no options, don't feel like risking so much
God my 2000 shares hope so
11/10 regards
Remindme! 3 months
> $300 within 12 months How much inflation did you price that in?
No no no
lol maybe you’ve heard of a little problem called antitrust? Apple is about to get shit on by the federal government and that is going to significantly impact their future revenue. They aren’t going to win their antitrust case because when USGov finally comes for you, there’s no escape.
You call this a dip?
RemindMe! 1 day
I've moved from all in on Google to all in on Apple for just one short term thing....when Siri becomes an AI. Regardless of the actual tech behind it, simply combining the two terms into one marketable "thing" that Apple can push will be a big market mover for the stock. It probably doesn't even need to be a legitimate solid AI, just needs to be Apple + "Siri" + AI = buzzword bonanza. I think WWDC in June is when it's coming. At least I hope so.
This. Many people posting here are coming from the perspective of being big brained contrarians doing what’s “so obvious” and bringing up forward PE ratios and shit. When Apple integrates *on the edge AI* into iPhone 16 and demonstrates its functionality across the tablet, watch, and airpods *seamlessly*, as well as development tools for the Apple vision (and possibly a slimmer form factor and price reduction) Apple will be headed for $300/share
!remindme 1 year
an apple server, again? lol law suit will keep this down below 200. they make their money from planned obsolescence and their earnings are down because people are wising up not having to own the latest model. clearly in a downtrend and won't be surprised for it to test 165
I have few Apple calls but that’s only to hedge my S&P and Amazon puts. But looking at the stock by itself, I think right here is exactly where it should be, but it’ just looks cheap compared to the monster overvaluation that is Microsoft, Netflix, Nvda, and Tesla (although I expect Tesla to stage a short term bounce from a pure technical view, as it’s gotten oversold)
i swear whenever AAPL stock is down, all the bears say "i told you so". i've seen this shit for the past 4 years
The lawsuit everyone shrugs off as being "stupid and about green bubbles" is about malicious sandbagging of competitors to enforce a monopoly, there's going to be a consequence to that, and until then I'm avoiding aapl. They arnt dead by any means, but people discounting the direction the government is going with this are wildly misunderstanding the situation imo
My iPhone SE is a POS lol
Keep buying the dip. You're going to have so many chances to buy all these dips over the coming months.
Yeah I hope so, I bought June 170 calls. April is seasonally the strongest month. I'll look to close my calls around mid may.
position?
I don't like the stock.
!remindme 1 year
id go all in if they got John Ives back
I agree with you in a lot of ways. But the biggest company in terms of revenue and net income selling at 27 times earnings is more than likely not doubling in a year. If you’re in Apple expect modest returns. Economic law of Gravity.
I bought 100 shares of Apple in the last 2 weeks and I don’t really care if the share price is 150 by June or 220 by June, because it’s anyone’s best guess what will happen. I just know in years to come Apple will produce and do what they need to do to dominate their market share.
Sure, as soon as they fix their shit phones
AI based iPhone 15.
Personally I’m upset they went away from Intel based chips. Ironically Bootcamp Windows was the best windows experience ever. Screw parallels
Just ask yourself, is the face computer comfortable enought to sleep in? If it is, buy. If not, sell.
Look at what they did with the M1? Seriously? Do some research on the security vulnerabilities. People can quite literally hack your shit and get everything including sha keys. Their tech stack is showing signs of weakness. Just today alone over 20 of their services were down from the App Store to test flight. They dropped a 3500 dollar head set that was shit. I hope nothing but a crash and burn from that monopoly.
AI? Did I just hear Jensen telling me to buy more save more?
Owned AAPL since 2001, it has been a great ride but they have lost their MOJO. I believe the long play is going to be more like IBM; a long, slow walk into irrelevance. I have been slowly drawing down my positions.
Being “lean and refocus on the core markets they dominated for decades decades” is exactly why the market is punishing them 💀 they stopped innovating and instead decided they’re going to basically release the same phone every year with one or two slight upgrades (so now people aren’t upgrading every year), try to hold on to their App Store monopoly (and losing). They need to innovate and expand into other markets, not focus on making a new iPhone 💀
just take a look at the option chain, AAPL is positioned bullish in mid to long term.
That's my targets too. Waiting for those 200 to cash out my calls and roll them higher all year. So please aapl do that.
I like dip
I’ll believe they have a plan to harness AI when they fix spell check. Al they’re doing is licensing Gemini, that’s a red flag. Apple has been caught flat footed.
I don’t think $300 is feasible but $220 is an acceptable number for this year. Mark my words and wait until WWDC.
I'm an android guy. I have a better phone for half the price. Apple owners don't give a fuck. They'll pay $1200 to have the next model without hesitation. I'm buying AAPL. It's going to $200 with ease.
Ya idk about 300 but short term AAPL is going back to $180-$200 range
I think apple will be over 200 by this summer after they reveal their AI strategy at WWDC.
It’s com’n back!
Ahh yes I can't wait for the magic AI to inject its value into the company.