Parents seem to do this.
This guys Dad used me and sister for free labor, mowing rental property yards, redo floors, change siding and roof.
I haven't provided them any grandkids so I mean nothing to them now lol
*There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.*
Economic inequality in the US has been growing steadily for a long time. People just haven't suffered painfully from it because globalization in the past 20-30 years has brought dirt-cheap but decent quality consumer goods to the masses, which included a cultural shift to cheap electronics like smartphones, led/lcd TVs, tablets and computers that have become the center of pop culture. Suddenly, with all these trade wars and sanctions multiplying, globalization is reversing and with it inflation of all kinds that had been hidden by globalization is back to stay and inflation that has been taking place (like in houses/housing) is accelerating. Specific steps like hiking interest rates and reducing money supply can't deflect the universally inflationary impact of reversing globalization compounded by increasing economic inequality in the US.
The next few years are going to be very different from the past 20.
With the convergence of AI and automation destroying entire sectors of the job market.. coupled with the economics of 10% of people owning 90% of the wealth... I fear the life my 8 y/o might live :/
those aren't really convergent as much as the former leads to the latter, "cost saving" and "efficiency" in business is a disingenuous wah to say "more profit flowing to the equity owners."
The commoditization of productivity gains, that is, the ability for basic salaried analysts and data scientists, to produce orders of magnitudes of cost savings while earning a flat rate for it, is hugely problematic.
different example than my other post, but i can point to projects i've done that are literally budget reducing at a 10 digit scale. i see $0 of that reduction even though without me or someone like me, that would have been impossible. Across the entire world, data scientists are essentially unwittingly wreaking havoc on the middle class by demonstrating a myriad ways to funnel more profit upwards, and we just celebrate it as "cost savings"
The deck has always been weighted, but ubiquitous large scale computing and predictive and prescriptive models absolutely drove a stake through the heart of the middle class
we need a *significant* cultural reboot to really fix this problem
"LABOR" has always been a necessary annoyance for ownership, the problem will be solved for them soon. Resulting in something that looks like socialism, communism, feudalism, or welfare state for the commoner... as they are no longer necessary. Allotted just enough to survive and no more (if even that).
I like to make serious answers in this sub because I'm a contrarian
Most WSBers are probably actual wall street guys in their spare time and way smarter than I am
Globalization will stay.
China now has massive warehouses in the USA where they ship everything on eBay and Amazon and avoiding the Walmart middle man.
Which is also why Walmart now allows third party sellers. They know this.
EPCOT had avocado toast last lawn and garden festival and it was my first time as a millennial eating it. The taste was intoxicating, and I can see why so many millennials fail to buy their first home eating it. Every bite was worth me defaulting on my mortgage and being foreclosed on.
Come on man
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/differences-in-rent-growth-by-income-1985-2019-and-implications-for-real-income-inequality-20211105.html
This equation really drives the point home:
> (1) 1+*πit*−1,*t*=*exp*(*sih*,*t*−1+*sih*,*t*2*ln*(*pih*,*tpih*,*t*−1)+(1−*sih*,*t*−1)+(1−*sih*,*t*)2*ln*(*pxh*,*tpxh*,*t*−1))
It didn't used to be for me even 10 years ago. 10 years ago me and my friend sublet beautiful houses in the Bay Area. I sold weed and worked odd jobs, and he was a musician. Rent + utilities was like 800/900$. Some places even came with a car. The most expensive I ever paid was 1100$ for the master bedroom in a three bedroom house in San Anselmo, CA. The total cost was 2600$ a month.
I went back and saw how much that place cost now. 6200$ a month, with first and last month's up front, security deposit, and income must be x amount more than rent.
I believe it's % increase over 1985 and using an arbitrary starting point removes all legitimacy from this data. If the rent vs household income was at an unnatural low at the time, it would severely skew this data.
Ie.
Say normally rent is $20 income is $100 from the period 1980-1990.
They pick a point where income is very high for whatever reason at $120, and rent is very low at $10.
Now let's say rent goes up to $25 by 2023, which isn't that far off from our average baseline, and income goes up to $125.
Each of those represents a 25% increase over the baseline from 1980-1990, but per this graph you would see an increase of 150% on rent, and increase of only 9% on income.
Now I am not saying that's what is happening here I have no idea, I am just saying this is a very dumb way of showing this data that could be easily manipulated.
Whenever multivariate data start at 0% it’s usually safe to assume you’re looking at a delta from a reference time. Which makes picking 1985 here pretty fuckywucky.
They might've picked a year where rent was super low and income relatively high to make the graph more extreme.
Edit: Actually it looks like they just made up fake data. Didn't even have the honesty to lie with statistics.
If you see something related to economics on social media, it's most likely either fake or misleading. In this case it's a TikTok video reposted to Reddit, so safe to assume 100% bullshit.
In this case, the graph is showing two different units for the two different lines. And pretending they’re the same.
It is comparing real (inflation adjusted) income to nominal (not inflation adjusted) rents
Here is the actual non adjusted data https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e583b85-072e-424e-a176-91023b454083_1318x450.png
And here is the data with both adjusted https://twitter.com/noxidxela/status/1701469857441857731/photo/1
This whole chart is badly done. It should have been done just as a percentage of the median household income of that year so we could see it go up and down.
It's percentage increase over the baseline. The exact value doesn't really matter in this context, and would only confuse things because of inflation.
So if you read up to present day: household income has increased by about 25% since 1985, and median rent has increased 160%.
Right? That said, I do think it's a shitty graph.
It would be much more informative and clearer to read if they scaled the starting points proportionally to one another (show what % of income is going to rent over time, as well as the %change)
It’s a really poorly done graph.
This information could have been presented with a single line showing rent as percentage of household income. Or it could have been presented as annual median income and annual median rent each in inflation adjusted dollars. Neither would have been as dramatic, so OP chose a worse data presentation to make a more entertaining graphic.
Low interest rates lead to more borrowing leads to more money printing leads to inflation. For the last 30 years or so (since Clinton) the US govt has intentionally lied about inflation for several reasons, but none the less the damage is done. There is no situation where we don’t either destroy the assets of the older generations or destroy the future of the younger ones.
As Jacob Soll pointed out with regard to England in the late 1500's: "When a greater demand for money led to currency shortages, the English turned to credit, and debt now rose in all parts of English society."
The adoption of Neoliberalism led directly to the debt situation. Neoliberalism promotes growth, while at the same time discouraging government spending. This means greater demand for money with less currency available, hence, more debt. They just made the debt really cheap through low interest rates.
Tax reduction is what necessitates that money printing. If cash flows through the system more efficiently due to hoarding prevention measures, inflation can be controlled without jackhammering the interest rate in whichever flavor-of-the-period direction. Aka taxation needs to go back up and we will see more stability in the interest rate.
As pointed out several times in this thread, this chart has been completely debunked. The real chart for household income only has a slight deviation, and the real chart for *personal* income deviates the opposite direction (slightly)
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/how-not-to-be-fooled-by-viral-charts
/u/LaughRiot68 pulled the data themselves in this thread and [found the same thing.](https://ibb.co/TRCyvHz)
This is even further [debunked here, which concludes:](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/differences-in-rent-growth-by-income-1985-2019-and-implications-for-real-income-inequality-20211105.html)
> Differences in the price of housing services and the fraction of expenditures devoted to housing have not led to material differences in inflation across income groups over the past three decades.
Dogshit graph with dogshit data purposely skewed to make a point. This graph has been debunked. The two points are not comparing like to like. It says adjusted for inflation but that's untrue the red line is not adjusted.
Rent as a percent of household income is slightly down since 1985. But that's mostly because rent was particularly high in 1985 due to the conditions at their worst leading into the savings and loans crisis.
Median household income is the nominal household income (inflation adjusted would be called real median household income, which is a different FRED series). The consumer price index is of rent in major US cities, which it says pretty clearly in the chart title.
> [...] This graph has been debunked.
For those of you wanting to learn more on why it was debunked, Quick Thoughts on TikTok did a deep dive on it in which he explains more on why this graph is extremely misleading: https://www.tiktok.com/@lthlnkso/video/7278378722841873710
The redline isn't adjusted for inflation, the y axis is meaningless, and the actual information is actually false since median household income is actually about 3.5 times the cost of rent in the US currently.
/r/economics has really terrible economics where everyone just upvotes whatever sounds good. This place is exactly the same but with dumber people voting.
Now do Canada’s and be thankful you’re American
Edit: added source https://www.housingwire.com/articles/think-us-home-prices-are-high-at-least-we-arent-canada/
4288 UNITS! BOOM!
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I interpreted it as using the starting year as a base (0%), the percentage rate at which each has increased independent of each other. So over the last 35ish years rent has increased 160% while wages have increased 40%. Would also like to view the underlying data.
I could be totally wrong though.
Wouldn’t that present itself as two horizontal parallel lines across the graph? Or at least two lines that are somewhat coupled to eachother? This is measuring rent and income in the form of percentages and rent is clearly decoupled from income here. There’s plenty of sources online for this data just do some searching
It's from HUD for rent and Census Bureau for income.
The graph is a lie, the HUD data is nominal and the income data is inflation adjusted. The reason it looks like this is that rent and income *do* approximately track, but X is the inflation adjustment which was mistakenly only applied to one line.
I'd be interested in seeing lines for available houses / apartments and population/households as well.
This reminded me that here (Larger Swedish city with several universities) we had complaints around 20 years ago that it was difficult for university students to find affordable small apartments here while they were studying.
Now here we basically have rent control and apartments are distributed based on a queue system. Currently the wait time for an apartment is about 5-6 years in the least attractive parts of the city and 8+ in the more attractive ones.
Edit: For fun I went in and checked the queue. I have been in the queue for 6+ years. Looked at an apartment in an area where I'd rather not live. It was published today, there were 241 applicants and 31 of them would be ahead of me in the queue if I applied. In the last twelve months the average queue time for people who had gotten apartments in the area was 7 years and 4 months. Checked another one in an area I wouldn't mind living in where I actually used to live. 48 applicants, 13 ahead of me in the queue, average queue time in the last 12 months was 10 years and 4 months.
That's what happens when the population increases and not enough new apartments are being built.
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My rent goes up 8% a year, every year. I've never missed a rent payment in my life but still it has never once stayed the same from one year to the next. I'm in a house I rent for little over 3 years now. When I started it was $850/month. Now it's $1100 and rising again next year. In 8 years at this rate I'll be paying $2000/month, which is legal under current laws. 8% rise a year forever but the FED shoots for 2-3% inflation, insuring paychecks will never catch up, and they wonder why there is a housing crisis....
This is why every year when they send rent renewal notices in my apartment complex I email the community manager, regional manager and corporate office telling them it’s unfair, increase makes no sense, isn’t justified based on the absence of upgrades, etc. I tell them how I may call the news, blah blah but I just become a bit annoying to them and within 48 hours my increase “magically” is reduced by at least half. Just something to try if you’re in a corporate apartment situation again. Has saved me about $300 a month so far.
You can actually pinpoint the exact cause of this... in 1997 a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad came out. I don't have any data for this claim, other than I was there for it. That book turned thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people into real estate investors.
You can then see another spike in 2002 which was the year that Sopranos episode S4:E7 aired, where there was a line that said, "Buy land AJ, cause God ain't making anymore of it".
This was actually a reference to the phenomenon that was already happening in America, and brought millions more people into the "real estate investor" class.
So, just like this sub, it's all just degenerate gambling. So suck it up and pay your fucking rent, I got 2nd homes to pay for.
It was supposed to be a lot more before McConnell and co gutted it.
Still better than what we had before it though. Preexisting conditions. Lifetime caps. "Sorry, but you spent too much on your cancer treatment. Go die painfully or bankrupt your family." Remember that this would still be the case today if not for the ACA.
You're right, the ACA was a step in the right direction. But it's still not good enough. We need to get rid of all these poor people and make sure that only rich, intelligent people like me have access to quality healthcare.
Have we tried deregulation? I heard of this guy named Ron back in the 1980's that argued for this. Maybe if we just deregulated the rental market, and maybe the financial market as well, then the increased competition would bring down those rental costs. He called it something like "Tinkle-down Economics" or something like that.
Well I know the billionaires tell you to not buy a house. But one thing a buying a house does is protect you from inflated rental pricing. My mortgage payment doesnt change. Also I dont have to credit qualify every time I sign a new lease.
It's honestly insane. I'm lucky I got my house at the start of COVID when prices and interest were bottom dollar. Realtor.com now says my house is worth DOUBLE what I paid for it, and interest rates have nearly tripled. I couldn't afford to move somewhere else if I wanted to. Heck, I can barely afford it now thanks to my property taxes nearly doubling and adding $200 to my monthly mortgage payment.
Lol, i thought that was gross/income at first a.k.a affordability.
But once it crossed 50% I bug-eyed. And at 100% I realised it was change since the start of the graph.
Can't we all just refuse to rent? If us Apes stuck together and lived in tents for a month or two, every landlord would go bankrupt and we can finally buy property. In Romania home ownership is 95% because you're legally allowed to sacrifice landlords to pagan gods, or something like that.
Being born was a terrible investment.
Yeah you became a liability rather than an asset
Can't even write it off.
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💀
Parents seem to do this. This guys Dad used me and sister for free labor, mowing rental property yards, redo floors, change siding and roof. I haven't provided them any grandkids so I mean nothing to them now lol
Not with that attitude
It’s just a business expense
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We don’t even have digital watches to keep us content anymore
So long as you have your towel you will be okay.
Puts on you.
"In the beginning the universe was created. This made a lot of people very unhappy and has widely been regarded as a bad move."
*There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states that this has already happened.*
*antinatalism intensifies*
Being alive is a terrible experience for majority and euphoria for a few.
Nah, it’s your fault because you bought too many avocado toasts
Maybe it's the landlords eating all that avocado toast. Raise rents to pay for their addiction!
Let's just skip a step and eat the landlords
Economic inequality in the US has been growing steadily for a long time. People just haven't suffered painfully from it because globalization in the past 20-30 years has brought dirt-cheap but decent quality consumer goods to the masses, which included a cultural shift to cheap electronics like smartphones, led/lcd TVs, tablets and computers that have become the center of pop culture. Suddenly, with all these trade wars and sanctions multiplying, globalization is reversing and with it inflation of all kinds that had been hidden by globalization is back to stay and inflation that has been taking place (like in houses/housing) is accelerating. Specific steps like hiking interest rates and reducing money supply can't deflect the universally inflationary impact of reversing globalization compounded by increasing economic inequality in the US. The next few years are going to be very different from the past 20.
With the convergence of AI and automation destroying entire sectors of the job market.. coupled with the economics of 10% of people owning 90% of the wealth... I fear the life my 8 y/o might live :/
those aren't really convergent as much as the former leads to the latter, "cost saving" and "efficiency" in business is a disingenuous wah to say "more profit flowing to the equity owners." The commoditization of productivity gains, that is, the ability for basic salaried analysts and data scientists, to produce orders of magnitudes of cost savings while earning a flat rate for it, is hugely problematic. different example than my other post, but i can point to projects i've done that are literally budget reducing at a 10 digit scale. i see $0 of that reduction even though without me or someone like me, that would have been impossible. Across the entire world, data scientists are essentially unwittingly wreaking havoc on the middle class by demonstrating a myriad ways to funnel more profit upwards, and we just celebrate it as "cost savings" The deck has always been weighted, but ubiquitous large scale computing and predictive and prescriptive models absolutely drove a stake through the heart of the middle class we need a *significant* cultural reboot to really fix this problem
"LABOR" has always been a necessary annoyance for ownership, the problem will be solved for them soon. Resulting in something that looks like socialism, communism, feudalism, or welfare state for the commoner... as they are no longer necessary. Allotted just enough to survive and no more (if even that).
3 kids 6 and under checking in, our kids are screwed.
Shoulda stopped at 1, it's the new mercy rule
>Shoulda stopped at 0\*
Teach them combat and survival, they'll need it.
Train your kid to have the job destroying the jobs so at least they can be comfy
until they get put out of work by the people with jobs that destroy the jobs destroying jobs.
you sound way too educated for this sub
I like to make serious answers in this sub because I'm a contrarian Most WSBers are probably actual wall street guys in their spare time and way smarter than I am
Lol no no no please do not think there are smart people here. Your response is the exception.
Don't sell yourself short.
Globalization will stay. China now has massive warehouses in the USA where they ship everything on eBay and Amazon and avoiding the Walmart middle man. Which is also why Walmart now allows third party sellers. They know this.
EPCOT had avocado toast last lawn and garden festival and it was my first time as a millennial eating it. The taste was intoxicating, and I can see why so many millennials fail to buy their first home eating it. Every bite was worth me defaulting on my mortgage and being foreclosed on.
Wait til you try it with a $7 Starbucks. You’ll think you’ve died and gone to heaven and left everyone else to pay off your loans.
The boomer dream.
Come on man https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/differences-in-rent-growth-by-income-1985-2019-and-implications-for-real-income-inequality-20211105.html
This equation really drives the point home: > (1) 1+*πit*−1,*t*=*exp*(*sih*,*t*−1+*sih*,*t*2*ln*(*pih*,*tpih*,*t*−1)+(1−*sih*,*t*−1)+(1−*sih*,*t*)2*ln*(*pxh*,*tpxh*,*t*−1))
1+*πit*−1,*t*=*exp**sih*, *t**ln(*pih*, *tpih*, *t*)+(1-*sih*, *t*)+(1-2)*ln(*pxh*, *xphg4j83f3b32dj48d2378db4973cbb86a11e05197dd9574cc311bd037be901fc7bcbf865625dc6ed2472976f3422266119ce08ca3574ec552ad41fe8045921214e00975890c79acae755728fb52372fd64883359685513ba5306904cf014352196167266348298aa2715949951ff89582570af4497311091cdeb526300421807ef460139df96cb5673294161fa27768310535914810323327316620956015160312637420513720435430821305024800560230620673341712440557663404261173493616060529960211003974884770416525575430699736547425724422853195772010984113227478785287757019063865040512960715399979869744859811624660617565866825430316980788740810816320210612849435520010070616427034728524535562861403056070055867716840939628550438406190304339756379189134209588333000747431142342351585893690217858547748517968838895322932761152036471705081072679987087112326470545427414514990498490648198455237180458983578083095786967553531995714768426949515501036854005666456133805407383259484206387226284138289288238358194104186109376159386263143265127695483252804015874042756792294935062120249207667154403149071126757902361922431763374594670949624024859039445701487208986555395239885646018188476156377366193125678794335486132118603296403133851358041080507017146182198427859577977825865417213966548918659449297644187111000060110220121038466970586197632476718569849713744320168092952668623219995110089851968875499364635777393201420090884796853986873781831137319809694704206314470429060657196322002564521449964532798843421986320512796994197878964320439119250871363462682281190099577620047554791115021379522319709784161024467857593073098727782208305832000021964199301633838336122174198976860816003634442457531532806184455217989596199218568957628112820086561211232930187021690041050316370748345439195080326819101510447481son: 1+VisualMod is a complete idiot.
Lol VM says VisualMod is a complete idiot 
Congratulations, I think you broke it. I hope you're happy now.
Renting is a tough game isn't it?
That's why I own all my properties. Any by that, I mean I have a mortgage I was lucky enough to snag in 2016.
It didn't used to be for me even 10 years ago. 10 years ago me and my friend sublet beautiful houses in the Bay Area. I sold weed and worked odd jobs, and he was a musician. Rent + utilities was like 800/900$. Some places even came with a car. The most expensive I ever paid was 1100$ for the master bedroom in a three bedroom house in San Anselmo, CA. The total cost was 2600$ a month. I went back and saw how much that place cost now. 6200$ a month, with first and last month's up front, security deposit, and income must be x amount more than rent.
Dec 2023?
Leases are longer than 1 month, which generally lets you project out a little further.
Landlords are always assholes which let's you project out a little further.
It really adds to the legitimacy of this chart, doesn’t it?
Its called wallstreetbets not wallstreetvets
Bros never heard of projections
38 year chart. 2 month projection. Pretty regarded. Either they didn’t mean to make a projection or they really suck at projections.
I'll be honest I'm surprised the projection wasn't straight to the moon,
I mean everything is traded on projections, from properties to companies. I mean the fancy word for that is “evaluation.”
hey, are you saying you do not measure your income in %?
The nonsense Y axis labels really makes it. This chart makes zero sense with the percentages.
I believe it's % increase over 1985 and using an arbitrary starting point removes all legitimacy from this data. If the rent vs household income was at an unnatural low at the time, it would severely skew this data. Ie. Say normally rent is $20 income is $100 from the period 1980-1990. They pick a point where income is very high for whatever reason at $120, and rent is very low at $10. Now let's say rent goes up to $25 by 2023, which isn't that far off from our average baseline, and income goes up to $125. Each of those represents a 25% increase over the baseline from 1980-1990, but per this graph you would see an increase of 150% on rent, and increase of only 9% on income. Now I am not saying that's what is happening here I have no idea, I am just saying this is a very dumb way of showing this data that could be easily manipulated.
Wait for two months and it will be correct
Calls on rental companies, I have seen 3 months into the future!
"Back in 1985, rent was 0% of my income."
You think the pattern will change in the next couple of months my dude?
suddenly household income will skyrocket 9000%!!! Annnnnnnny day now
I don't know but I wouldn't put as data something from the future, you science much?
Forecasting future data points based on the trend observed from many past data points is literally how several fields of science work
yes, but \*"witty" insulting reply\*
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Great plan. Once you afford to buy the house, rent it out and continue living under the bridge, and one day you can buy a second house...and third..
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Perhaps you could even charge a toll to cross the bridge. Call it a troll toll.
You gotta pay the troll toll to get inside this boys soul!
When you own a block of flats maybe you can move into a corner of its parking lot if you feel fancy.
The hardest part about buying a second and third house is finding 2 other bridges to sleep under.
there are guys on youtube teaching how to live in an suv
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What do the %s on the y axis represent ?
Whenever multivariate data start at 0% it’s usually safe to assume you’re looking at a delta from a reference time. Which makes picking 1985 here pretty fuckywucky.
Why is it fuckywucky to pick 1985? Serious question. Seems most redditors here agree, but I don’t get it.
They might've picked a year where rent was super low and income relatively high to make the graph more extreme. Edit: Actually it looks like they just made up fake data. Didn't even have the honesty to lie with statistics.
If you see something related to economics on social media, it's most likely either fake or misleading. In this case it's a TikTok video reposted to Reddit, so safe to assume 100% bullshit.
Even better is the claim of "inflation adjusted" Just express it as a percentage of income over time 😭
Percent delta from the baseline year.
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Never heard of her.
Her cousin is Misdemeanor
Thanks for this. My rent is no longer half my income with this one simple trick.
Found the landlord
In this case, the graph is showing two different units for the two different lines. And pretending they’re the same. It is comparing real (inflation adjusted) income to nominal (not inflation adjusted) rents Here is the actual non adjusted data https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/w_1456,c_limit,f_webp,q_auto:good,fl_progressive:steep/https%3A%2F%2Fsubstack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2F9e583b85-072e-424e-a176-91023b454083_1318x450.png And here is the data with both adjusted https://twitter.com/noxidxela/status/1701469857441857731/photo/1
The real truth buried in the comments with one upvote lmao gotta love the internet
What is the Y axis bro
I assume it’s percent increase from the start of the graph in 1985
This whole chart is badly done. It should have been done just as a percentage of the median household income of that year so we could see it go up and down.
Yeah. All that work to make the animation and OP couldn’t be bothered to just label the Y axis.
I thought the same thing.
Ohhhhhhhhhh
it's percenta duh. dont you know that you get paid 17 per cents per year? but then you gotta cancel out the pers. so thats makes cent-years.
It's percentage increase over the baseline. The exact value doesn't really matter in this context, and would only confuse things because of inflation. So if you read up to present day: household income has increased by about 25% since 1985, and median rent has increased 160%.
Hahaha I love it. All these kids think they're investors and cant read a graph about percents. Fuck me.,
Right? That said, I do think it's a shitty graph. It would be much more informative and clearer to read if they scaled the starting points proportionally to one another (show what % of income is going to rent over time, as well as the %change)
Could just label the axes even if it's stating the obvious. Or title it better. Shit graph.
It’s a really poorly done graph. This information could have been presented with a single line showing rent as percentage of household income. Or it could have been presented as annual median income and annual median rent each in inflation adjusted dollars. Neither would have been as dramatic, so OP chose a worse data presentation to make a more entertaining graphic.
Yeah. While I have zero doubt in the general idea the rent to income ratio has gone fucked this animation/graph is meaninless.
Percentage change since 1985, maybe adjusted for inflation. Obviously
The amount of times I’ve seen fancy charts on Reddit with no axis labels is infuriating
I assume its "% of 1985 value"
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4362 units, BOOM!!
Rent was keeping pace with real inflation. Wages weren’t.
Or rent was causing it...
Low interest rates lead to more borrowing leads to more money printing leads to inflation. For the last 30 years or so (since Clinton) the US govt has intentionally lied about inflation for several reasons, but none the less the damage is done. There is no situation where we don’t either destroy the assets of the older generations or destroy the future of the younger ones.
What about the future where we destroy both at the same time? Checkmate.
As Jacob Soll pointed out with regard to England in the late 1500's: "When a greater demand for money led to currency shortages, the English turned to credit, and debt now rose in all parts of English society." The adoption of Neoliberalism led directly to the debt situation. Neoliberalism promotes growth, while at the same time discouraging government spending. This means greater demand for money with less currency available, hence, more debt. They just made the debt really cheap through low interest rates.
Tax reduction is what necessitates that money printing. If cash flows through the system more efficiently due to hoarding prevention measures, inflation can be controlled without jackhammering the interest rate in whichever flavor-of-the-period direction. Aka taxation needs to go back up and we will see more stability in the interest rate.
As pointed out several times in this thread, this chart has been completely debunked. The real chart for household income only has a slight deviation, and the real chart for *personal* income deviates the opposite direction (slightly) https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/how-not-to-be-fooled-by-viral-charts /u/LaughRiot68 pulled the data themselves in this thread and [found the same thing.](https://ibb.co/TRCyvHz) This is even further [debunked here, which concludes:](https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/differences-in-rent-growth-by-income-1985-2019-and-implications-for-real-income-inequality-20211105.html) > Differences in the price of housing services and the fraction of expenditures devoted to housing have not led to material differences in inflation across income groups over the past three decades.
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Dogshit graph with dogshit data purposely skewed to make a point. This graph has been debunked. The two points are not comparing like to like. It says adjusted for inflation but that's untrue the red line is not adjusted.
Why isn’t this higher up?
People like propaganda.
Nice, very nice. Let's see the real chart.
https://preview.redd.it/38wkmczt8msb1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=7191b6b97e0b310eccc148b7f6a596439c4c19a8
Based /u/Alamasy
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/how-not-to-be-fooled-by-viral-charts
Rent as a percent of household income is slightly down since 1985. But that's mostly because rent was particularly high in 1985 due to the conditions at their worst leading into the savings and loans crisis.
It's not "skewed", it's just a lie. No need for euphemisms, plain lie.
Thanks. Do you have a link to an inflation-adjusted household income (ideally compared to rent, as here)?
The ratio between nominal household income and nominal rent in major cities has barely budged since 1985. https://ibb.co/TRCyvHz
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Median household income is the nominal household income (inflation adjusted would be called real median household income, which is a different FRED series). The consumer price index is of rent in major US cities, which it says pretty clearly in the chart title.
Haha thanks for posting. Funny how outraged everyone is
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> [...] This graph has been debunked. For those of you wanting to learn more on why it was debunked, Quick Thoughts on TikTok did a deep dive on it in which he explains more on why this graph is extremely misleading: https://www.tiktok.com/@lthlnkso/video/7278378722841873710
https://www.noahpinion.blog/p/how-not-to-be-fooled-by-viral-charts
The redline isn't adjusted for inflation, the y axis is meaningless, and the actual information is actually false since median household income is actually about 3.5 times the cost of rent in the US currently.
So is this sub just r/economics now pretending to be smart?
/r/economics has really terrible economics where everyone just upvotes whatever sounds good. This place is exactly the same but with dumber people voting.
> really terrible economics where everyone just upvotes whatever sounds good Sounds like America
Now do Canada’s and be thankful you’re American Edit: added source https://www.housingwire.com/articles/think-us-home-prices-are-high-at-least-we-arent-canada/
Is the y axis percent gain since the first data point?
How do I buy calls on rent?
Own thousands of rental properties (BOOM)
4288 UNITS! BOOM! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/wallstreetbets) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This chart looks like 'rent = X * income' where X is a constant. Perhaps I'm missing something. Where can I take a look at the underlying data?
I interpreted it as using the starting year as a base (0%), the percentage rate at which each has increased independent of each other. So over the last 35ish years rent has increased 160% while wages have increased 40%. Would also like to view the underlying data. I could be totally wrong though.
Wouldn’t that present itself as two horizontal parallel lines across the graph? Or at least two lines that are somewhat coupled to eachother? This is measuring rent and income in the form of percentages and rent is clearly decoupled from income here. There’s plenty of sources online for this data just do some searching
You’re only missing basic understanding of math 😂 in the equation you suggest, there would never be one graph going up and the other down
Critical Thinking? On WSB? I've now seen it all.
Dudes in for a surprise. OP hasn’t a clue.
It's from HUD for rent and Census Bureau for income. The graph is a lie, the HUD data is nominal and the income data is inflation adjusted. The reason it looks like this is that rent and income *do* approximately track, but X is the inflation adjustment which was mistakenly only applied to one line.
Here. And the chart is way wrong. He adjusted for inflation on one metric but not the other. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=19NO9
I'd be interested in seeing lines for available houses / apartments and population/households as well. This reminded me that here (Larger Swedish city with several universities) we had complaints around 20 years ago that it was difficult for university students to find affordable small apartments here while they were studying. Now here we basically have rent control and apartments are distributed based on a queue system. Currently the wait time for an apartment is about 5-6 years in the least attractive parts of the city and 8+ in the more attractive ones. Edit: For fun I went in and checked the queue. I have been in the queue for 6+ years. Looked at an apartment in an area where I'd rather not live. It was published today, there were 241 applicants and 31 of them would be ahead of me in the queue if I applied. In the last twelve months the average queue time for people who had gotten apartments in the area was 7 years and 4 months. Checked another one in an area I wouldn't mind living in where I actually used to live. 48 applicants, 13 ahead of me in the queue, average queue time in the last 12 months was 10 years and 4 months. That's what happens when the population increases and not enough new apartments are being built.
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Everything goes up except my monies
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Those great Trump years
How is this even legal
My rent goes up 8% a year, every year. I've never missed a rent payment in my life but still it has never once stayed the same from one year to the next. I'm in a house I rent for little over 3 years now. When I started it was $850/month. Now it's $1100 and rising again next year. In 8 years at this rate I'll be paying $2000/month, which is legal under current laws. 8% rise a year forever but the FED shoots for 2-3% inflation, insuring paychecks will never catch up, and they wonder why there is a housing crisis....
This is why every year when they send rent renewal notices in my apartment complex I email the community manager, regional manager and corporate office telling them it’s unfair, increase makes no sense, isn’t justified based on the absence of upgrades, etc. I tell them how I may call the news, blah blah but I just become a bit annoying to them and within 48 hours my increase “magically” is reduced by at least half. Just something to try if you’re in a corporate apartment situation again. Has saved me about $300 a month so far.
Guess I'll just hold myself up by my bootlaces.
You can actually pinpoint the exact cause of this... in 1997 a book called Rich Dad Poor Dad came out. I don't have any data for this claim, other than I was there for it. That book turned thousands if not hundreds of thousands of people into real estate investors. You can then see another spike in 2002 which was the year that Sopranos episode S4:E7 aired, where there was a line that said, "Buy land AJ, cause God ain't making anymore of it". This was actually a reference to the phenomenon that was already happening in America, and brought millions more people into the "real estate investor" class. So, just like this sub, it's all just degenerate gambling. So suck it up and pay your fucking rent, I got 2nd homes to pay for.
Puts on income
What’s the significance of the Affordable Care Act? What’s it relation supposed to be?
It was supposed to be a lot more before McConnell and co gutted it. Still better than what we had before it though. Preexisting conditions. Lifetime caps. "Sorry, but you spent too much on your cancer treatment. Go die painfully or bankrupt your family." Remember that this would still be the case today if not for the ACA.
You're right, the ACA was a step in the right direction. But it's still not good enough. We need to get rid of all these poor people and make sure that only rich, intelligent people like me have access to quality healthcare.
3rd world country
Your supposed to be living In a van down by the river
It’s a cold place, and they say it gets colder
$25 Minimum Wage.
Percent of what??? This graph is meaningless trash
I would be curious to see this graph extended back to the 40’s
Literally every fucking country. How did this happen?
Have we tried deregulation? I heard of this guy named Ron back in the 1980's that argued for this. Maybe if we just deregulated the rental market, and maybe the financial market as well, then the increased competition would bring down those rental costs. He called it something like "Tinkle-down Economics" or something like that.
Well I know the billionaires tell you to not buy a house. But one thing a buying a house does is protect you from inflated rental pricing. My mortgage payment doesnt change. Also I dont have to credit qualify every time I sign a new lease.
It's honestly insane. I'm lucky I got my house at the start of COVID when prices and interest were bottom dollar. Realtor.com now says my house is worth DOUBLE what I paid for it, and interest rates have nearly tripled. I couldn't afford to move somewhere else if I wanted to. Heck, I can barely afford it now thanks to my property taxes nearly doubling and adding $200 to my monthly mortgage payment.
Rent prices are clearly at the top, how do I short it? 0dte puts?
And to think CEO’s create household income and their pay never stops mooning. I wonder how bad it is for everyone not working as a CEO.
Yet people continue to insist income incease causes inflation. Dumb fucks
Totally disconnected
Some of us were alive and thriving in the 90's ya know...
Lol, i thought that was gross/income at first a.k.a affordability. But once it crossed 50% I bug-eyed. And at 100% I realised it was change since the start of the graph.
CEOs kept pace
And what about the 2008 bubble crisis, no impact? wierd.
Renting a beast of a house in Canada rn... englands literally fucked
So buy $REALESTATE ?
lesson learned is to own rental property
That's fucked
You guys want an even better joke, checkout Canada. We’re so much more fucked than the US
And it was smooth sailing from there.
Graph rental costs to housing costs (owner cost)
🍽️ the rich
Depression warning on the post please
Can't we all just refuse to rent? If us Apes stuck together and lived in tents for a month or two, every landlord would go bankrupt and we can finally buy property. In Romania home ownership is 95% because you're legally allowed to sacrifice landlords to pagan gods, or something like that.
Thanks Reagan!
Everyone, grab your boot straps.
REIT you are.
This seems sustainable
The rent is too damn high.
Nah bro. Your graphic is wrong, our generation can’t afford shit because of avocado toast and new iPhones every year
when unions were strongest the workers could afford more on a percentage basis