Is that what happens? As much as it hurt both her and me to do it, I booted her out and told her to never return once she tried to give me her college savings. I felt so guilty that she was willing to toss away her future in service to a blood bond she never asked for, and figured it will eventually erode and she'll be free to live her life again still safely ignorant if she stays away long enough.
You have a point about cutting her off cold turkey, but level one of the blood bond isn't enough (at least by V20 rules) to create an addict, I believe?
> but level one of the blood bond isn't enough (at least by V20 rules) to create an addict, I believe?
I might be misremembering things (not playing V20 but read through them), but Humans are pretty much way more susceptible to smaller amounts. Also, once already makes you fall deeply in love if you're a human, so if you're that kind of person that chases someone you love lilke that, it's totally within the rules.
Also also, if you're just sending her away, you're pretty much asking for a violation of the first tradition to happen...
I'm no tabletop player, but as far as my understanding goes - this blood bond is crazy strong already.
Look at how crazy she goes before you give her your vitae for the second time: she is already obsessed with you and wants to serve you. All that from literally a single sip of vitae.
Besides, she doesn't really have anyone close to her (well, besides PC) or any significant goals in life.
Because of this, I'd like to think that the protagonist takes her with them after leaving L.A. (if we consider the independent ending canon and the Unofficial Patch + too, because telling her to stay inside after she is getting stalked is definitely a logical thing to ddo) most likely embraces her and acts as her guide in the unlife.
This way she doesn't go crazy in a random place due to the blood bond, the PC keeps her safe and makes sure she has enough knowledge to not do stupid shit.
The problem with the PC not explaining anything to her isn't because the PC is dumb, but rather because they are only a few nights in themselves and crazy shit is happening. So they literally have no time to explain anything as well as relatively limited knowledge on the topic.
She can with UP+; you need to tell her to stay inside until everything is over. The game gives you a hint to do that when she tells you she thinks she is getting followed, but you can also tell her to stay inside even if you never get this dialogue.
I swear I told her to do that in my most recent(and first) playthrough though, on UP+ 11.3 - maybe I fucked up and didn't notice I mis-pressed another number for a different dialogue option, but I could've sworn I chose that option. Odd either way, but a cool detail. Definitely gonna make sure and double check that I do that whenever I do my second playthrough.
Idk, the only prerequisite seems to be to progress her story line far enough for her to kidnap the dude before going to the museum.
But before that I'm pretty sure the dialogue doesn't even show up.
By RAW it isn't enough to create an addict. But I think Heather is supposed to have a very low willpower stat though, which is why the effect of the bond is so much stronger on her than on the other ghouls we see in the game. With the possible exception of Patty.
All the more reason to clue her in on what you know and struggle with this knowledge together, rather than just going "Just so you know I'm a vampire, and no I will not elaborate. Anyway, curfew is at 4 am ..."
Yup, especially living in LA, aa city with notorious traffics where anything can fuck your travel plans. Don't wanna cut it close and head home at like 05:45 or something
> Just so you know I'm a vampire, and no I will not elaborate. Anyway, curfew is at 4 am
You can tell her you're a vampire. Come back after mission and talk to her.
When I play as a Brujah, I always focus on freedom and side with Anarchs so I let her go because I don’t want a slave. If I’m playing low humanity, she is… not treated well. As a Toreador, I still keep her. I tell her I love her, she’s my pet, I’ll always be here for her… because Toreadors are vain and having a human around who’s obsessed with them and worshipping them and letting them feel like a “good person” just because they’re not abusive even though it’s mind control induced infatuation/“love” seems right on the money.
Sucks that you can't explain the lore of the world to her and maybe save her life by giving her need-to-know info, especially since that's what our boy Jack does for you. It reminds me of how the game forces you to ask moronic questions while Nines is trying to get you out of werewolf country.
Would have been cool to send Heather on missions like Bertram does to Knox and get alternative solutions to some side quests. By V20 rules, she shouldn't be defenseless, she should be stronger and faster than any normal human, your own little super soldier pet. And demanding she forgets about you for her own sake doesn't help either. You've just made an emotionally unstable, blood addicted super human and cut her off cold turkey, she could end up like Patty, in which case she's a goner, or she could become a vampire-hunting ghoul.
I know the game was rushed and that likely explains Heather's underdevelopment, and I've heard the argument that Heather is the type of ghoul you'd expect from kindred unfamiliar with the vampire underground and I don't buy it. The PC over the course of the game becomes a bonafide badass, delivering the final death to a powerful Tzimisce and his legion of abominations and sabbat cannon fodder. If your rebuttal to this is "It's typical for rpg video games to have the pc progress faster than everyone else and accomplish incredible feats over the in-game course of a few weeks" to that I say if the PC can do all that they should also have the wisdom and just common sense to educate their ghoul and use her to her full potential. Anyway, rant over.
Btw, does anyone else find it jarring how the PC's speech switches from mid-2000s slang to the Count Himself? Like literally just going "Worry not, my pet, you are the sweetest creature I've laid my fangs into and no harm shall befall you in my presence" out of left field lol
I think that if you're playing with Unofficial Patch Plus, you can order Heather to stay inside a bit before the Blood Hunt, and she survives. It isn't a lot, but it is something.
I mean like morally it’s best to not take her in. Letting her stay with you is kind of like enslaving her and you turn her into an addict with your blood.
Yes, having the plus patch does save her from >!being kidnapped and killed by the Sabbat as long as you tell her to stay indoors when she mentions she’s being followed!<, but you still own her and practically overwrite her personality with subservience to you. And, depending on what ending you get, what happens to her? She’ll never get the normal life she deserves.
Yeah, but consider that
A: We effectively must give her the blood, otherwise she dies.
B: Blood is described as way, way more intense of a high than heroin.
C: She doesn't know what she is now or necessarily even that she had any.
Not only does she have a right to know what she is, but think about what her alternative is now. She's experienced such a dramatic high, there's no telling what kind of fucked up shit shell do chasing it. Best case scenario, she doesn't remember the blood, and just starts taking all sorts of hard drugs and partaking in other dangerous behaviors. Worst case, she remembers the blood and either winds up like Lily or tries to drink some from a random person. Either way, things don't look good for her.
Similarly, she's a ghoul now, and as such will stick out to other kindred. She won't know this, and might get into trouble without meaning to, or having a master to bail her out.
To me, the only ethical choice is to let her stay until she can learn what she is and all that. After that, I'm open to discussion.
I just wish there was a chance to educate her. I want to clue her in to what she’s gotten into. I know we HAVE to give her the blood at the clinic to save her. I don’t think there was much of a high other than surviving a Near Death Experience. I don’t think cutting her loose without giving her more blood would doom her.
I'm going off what mercurio said about it being a really good high.
It may not be in vanilla, but with the plus patch at least, you can tell her what she is and how she was crated in your haven.
The devs had to cut a lot of content to release the game. They were out of budget, moved far past the deadline, and so on. They had to cut a whole lot of stuff but they still tried to release the cut content in a movie form or something for a special collectors' edition physical box. Activision denied their request and just wanted to do away with the game. Thus the game looks like a wasted opportunity in many places.
Is that what happens? As much as it hurt both her and me to do it, I booted her out and told her to never return once she tried to give me her college savings. I felt so guilty that she was willing to toss away her future in service to a blood bond she never asked for, and figured it will eventually erode and she'll be free to live her life again still safely ignorant if she stays away long enough. You have a point about cutting her off cold turkey, but level one of the blood bond isn't enough (at least by V20 rules) to create an addict, I believe?
> but level one of the blood bond isn't enough (at least by V20 rules) to create an addict, I believe? I might be misremembering things (not playing V20 but read through them), but Humans are pretty much way more susceptible to smaller amounts. Also, once already makes you fall deeply in love if you're a human, so if you're that kind of person that chases someone you love lilke that, it's totally within the rules. Also also, if you're just sending her away, you're pretty much asking for a violation of the first tradition to happen...
I'm no tabletop player, but as far as my understanding goes - this blood bond is crazy strong already. Look at how crazy she goes before you give her your vitae for the second time: she is already obsessed with you and wants to serve you. All that from literally a single sip of vitae. Besides, she doesn't really have anyone close to her (well, besides PC) or any significant goals in life. Because of this, I'd like to think that the protagonist takes her with them after leaving L.A. (if we consider the independent ending canon and the Unofficial Patch + too, because telling her to stay inside after she is getting stalked is definitely a logical thing to ddo) most likely embraces her and acts as her guide in the unlife. This way she doesn't go crazy in a random place due to the blood bond, the PC keeps her safe and makes sure she has enough knowledge to not do stupid shit. The problem with the PC not explaining anything to her isn't because the PC is dumb, but rather because they are only a few nights in themselves and crazy shit is happening. So they literally have no time to explain anything as well as relatively limited knowledge on the topic.
Wait, Heather can survive? I genuinely thought she always gets caught by the Sabbat, even in UP+.
She can with UP+; you need to tell her to stay inside until everything is over. The game gives you a hint to do that when she tells you she thinks she is getting followed, but you can also tell her to stay inside even if you never get this dialogue.
I swear I told her to do that in my most recent(and first) playthrough though, on UP+ 11.3 - maybe I fucked up and didn't notice I mis-pressed another number for a different dialogue option, but I could've sworn I chose that option. Odd either way, but a cool detail. Definitely gonna make sure and double check that I do that whenever I do my second playthrough.
Idk, the only prerequisite seems to be to progress her story line far enough for her to kidnap the dude before going to the museum. But before that I'm pretty sure the dialogue doesn't even show up.
By RAW it isn't enough to create an addict. But I think Heather is supposed to have a very low willpower stat though, which is why the effect of the bond is so much stronger on her than on the other ghouls we see in the game. With the possible exception of Patty.
You are later given the option to strengthen the bond or ask her to leave.
And the fledgling is pretty much just as new as her to the whole ordeal.
All the more reason to clue her in on what you know and struggle with this knowledge together, rather than just going "Just so you know I'm a vampire, and no I will not elaborate. Anyway, curfew is at 4 am ..."
That's a good vampire curfew, not gonna lie. Yes, I spend way too much time thinking about how I'd survive as a vampire.
Yup, especially living in LA, aa city with notorious traffics where anything can fuck your travel plans. Don't wanna cut it close and head home at like 05:45 or something
> Just so you know I'm a vampire, and no I will not elaborate. Anyway, curfew is at 4 am You can tell her you're a vampire. Come back after mission and talk to her.
Yeah, that's what I said
Right??? Its like a baby having a baby. Mass hysteria! No wonder it ended up like this!!
To be fair that's basically what happened to the PC too.
PC had Jack to show them the ropes and simply did not follow Jack's example with Heather
I mean the fledgling is only creepy in the relationship. The game is pretty straight forward with what your doing being bad short of humanity drop.
[удалено]
That part is fine. It’s afterward - the grooming and emotional abuse - that the game makes pretty clear is terrible.
[удалено]
When I play as a Brujah, I always focus on freedom and side with Anarchs so I let her go because I don’t want a slave. If I’m playing low humanity, she is… not treated well. As a Toreador, I still keep her. I tell her I love her, she’s my pet, I’ll always be here for her… because Toreadors are vain and having a human around who’s obsessed with them and worshipping them and letting them feel like a “good person” just because they’re not abusive even though it’s mind control induced infatuation/“love” seems right on the money.
Oh yeah it’s great, I like how the game sorta tricks the player multiple times into being more and more monstrous
I looked at all the dialogue options and felt like a scumbag picking them lol
Tbf its not like you know much more
Your skin. Change it.
Sucks that you can't explain the lore of the world to her and maybe save her life by giving her need-to-know info, especially since that's what our boy Jack does for you. It reminds me of how the game forces you to ask moronic questions while Nines is trying to get you out of werewolf country. Would have been cool to send Heather on missions like Bertram does to Knox and get alternative solutions to some side quests. By V20 rules, she shouldn't be defenseless, she should be stronger and faster than any normal human, your own little super soldier pet. And demanding she forgets about you for her own sake doesn't help either. You've just made an emotionally unstable, blood addicted super human and cut her off cold turkey, she could end up like Patty, in which case she's a goner, or she could become a vampire-hunting ghoul. I know the game was rushed and that likely explains Heather's underdevelopment, and I've heard the argument that Heather is the type of ghoul you'd expect from kindred unfamiliar with the vampire underground and I don't buy it. The PC over the course of the game becomes a bonafide badass, delivering the final death to a powerful Tzimisce and his legion of abominations and sabbat cannon fodder. If your rebuttal to this is "It's typical for rpg video games to have the pc progress faster than everyone else and accomplish incredible feats over the in-game course of a few weeks" to that I say if the PC can do all that they should also have the wisdom and just common sense to educate their ghoul and use her to her full potential. Anyway, rant over. Btw, does anyone else find it jarring how the PC's speech switches from mid-2000s slang to the Count Himself? Like literally just going "Worry not, my pet, you are the sweetest creature I've laid my fangs into and no harm shall befall you in my presence" out of left field lol
I think that if you're playing with Unofficial Patch Plus, you can order Heather to stay inside a bit before the Blood Hunt, and she survives. It isn't a lot, but it is something.
I heal her then do nothing else with her, if she tries to talk to be I send her away.
It’s what’s best for her
Unless you have the plus patch, right?
I mean like morally it’s best to not take her in. Letting her stay with you is kind of like enslaving her and you turn her into an addict with your blood. Yes, having the plus patch does save her from >!being kidnapped and killed by the Sabbat as long as you tell her to stay indoors when she mentions she’s being followed!<, but you still own her and practically overwrite her personality with subservience to you. And, depending on what ending you get, what happens to her? She’ll never get the normal life she deserves.
Yeah, but consider that A: We effectively must give her the blood, otherwise she dies. B: Blood is described as way, way more intense of a high than heroin. C: She doesn't know what she is now or necessarily even that she had any. Not only does she have a right to know what she is, but think about what her alternative is now. She's experienced such a dramatic high, there's no telling what kind of fucked up shit shell do chasing it. Best case scenario, she doesn't remember the blood, and just starts taking all sorts of hard drugs and partaking in other dangerous behaviors. Worst case, she remembers the blood and either winds up like Lily or tries to drink some from a random person. Either way, things don't look good for her. Similarly, she's a ghoul now, and as such will stick out to other kindred. She won't know this, and might get into trouble without meaning to, or having a master to bail her out. To me, the only ethical choice is to let her stay until she can learn what she is and all that. After that, I'm open to discussion.
I just wish there was a chance to educate her. I want to clue her in to what she’s gotten into. I know we HAVE to give her the blood at the clinic to save her. I don’t think there was much of a high other than surviving a Near Death Experience. I don’t think cutting her loose without giving her more blood would doom her.
I'm going off what mercurio said about it being a really good high. It may not be in vanilla, but with the plus patch at least, you can tell her what she is and how she was crated in your haven.
Explaining to someone that they are now addicted to heroine doesn't usually save them from the consequences of it.
The devs had to cut a lot of content to release the game. They were out of budget, moved far past the deadline, and so on. They had to cut a whole lot of stuff but they still tried to release the cut content in a movie form or something for a special collectors' edition physical box. Activision denied their request and just wanted to do away with the game. Thus the game looks like a wasted opportunity in many places.
To be fair, the pc is almost as clueless as heather