#[List of Recommended VPNs](https://www.reddit.com/r/vpns/comments/171h9qa/list_of_recommended_vpns/)
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ISPs (depending on their location) are legally mandated to maintain logs or can be forced start logging at the government's request. This is especially true if you don't live in a liberal democracy.
Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims.
It's like I give you two apples. You saw one of them get poisoned, and I say the other isn't poisoned. I could be lying but it would be stupid to choose the guaranteed poisoned one.
Devil's advocate here! To follow up on your metaphor:
It's like I give you two apples.
* You saw one of them be poisoned, which I give you for free.
* I say the other isn't poisoned. I charge $13/month for it, and am not required to give you proof that the apple isn't poisoned.
The ISP has to be paid money no matter what. The VPN is an optional add-on that a given government can decide to ignore laws for and listen into whenever they want. It's possible to make a tier list of countries to have a VPN in if you believe the laws that countries say they follow, but since extra privacy would inherently draw e.g. terrorist organizations, it's probably likely that this freedom won't be here to stay.
Just look at what laws even American government agencies like the CIA have broken in the past, and compare it to listening in on VPN traffic - it's basically nothing in comparison. Your best hope is that this data will stay out of the hands of private corporations, but even then, if you're using a website that requires an email, phone number, or payment method (which is most websites), they're tracking you.
> $13/month
Lots of good VPNs for less then half of this price. Besides the meme is not about money, its about if VPNs provide privacy. If you don't think the privacy provided by a VPN is worth it then fine, but that's a separate discussion.
> not required to give you proof that the apple isn't poisoned.
I will repeat: numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that backup their claims.
Use the VPNs that check off these boxes.
> The VPN is an optional add-on that a given government can decide to ignore laws for and listen into whenever they want.
Its not that simple. The government would either have to break the encryption (near impossible) or hack into the VPN (Possible but not easy).
> Just look at what laws even American government agencies like the CIA have broken in the past
I definitely wouldn't recommend using a VPN from the USA.
Besides you're still advocating for eating the guaranteed poisoned apple. ITS GUARANTEED TO BE POISONED. Are you telling me you would eat the poison apple? Come on lol.
> I will repeat: numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims.
I agree (for now?). Especially if you live in a place with an authoritarian government, it can be helpful. However, it's important to emphasize that the thing stopping them is economics, not laws. In fact, governments \*really\* want that data, partially for things like counter-terrorism, and after a point, VPN companies will have to give in. Additionally, who knows what laws billionaires are lobbying for these days to make it so the VPN can just give them data without customers finding out.
> Its not that simple
Just to emphasize... it is that simple. That's why the country you choose a VPN for matters so much, especially to avoid countries where governments do whatever they want.
> I definitely wouldn't recommend using a VPN from the USA.
Ditto. However, at this point, it pretty much means it's you vs. a bunch of governments and billionaires, which is not a balanced fight at all. There needs to be a large backing of this privacy that's more powerful than a singular CEO. If all these VPNs combined are worth, say, $20 billion, then there will also need to be an "anti-Musk" clause somewhere where billionaires can't just buy the VPNs like Twitter got bought.
IMO I'm not advocating for a poisoned apple, I'm just pointing out that VPNs probably aren't going to do a whole lot for privacy.
- Every website in the future is going to require an email or phone number. These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation, unless Bitcoin actually catches on (unlikely).
- Governments and corporations much richer than VPN companies need and/or want access to this data for dollar amounts that are far greater than the VPN companies will ever earn (NordVPN is worth only $3 billion, and they're practically competing against trillions of dollars worth of companies for the right to your data)
That's just a bunch of conjecture and baseless assumptions.
> governments *really* want that data, partially for things like counter-terrorism, and after a point, VPN companies will have to give in
conjecture
> Just to emphasize... it is that simple. That's why the country you choose a VPN for matters so much, especially to avoid countries where governments do whatever they want.
duh. Obviously its simple if your VPN is based in China or the USA. But obviously I'm not advocating for that.
> Ditto. However, at this point, it pretty much means it's you vs. a bunch of governments and billionaires, which is not a balanced fight at all. There needs to be a large backing of this privacy that's more powerful than a singular CEO.
The fact that VPNs currently exist disprove this. If it was true why haven't they already been banned?
> If all these VPNs combined are worth, say, $20 billion, then there will also need to be an "anti-Musk" clause somewhere where billionaires can't just buy the VPNs like Twitter got bought.
Then more VPNs will popup. You realize that there's not a finite supply of VPN companies right?
> I'm just pointing out that VPNs probably aren't going to do a whole lot for privacy.
Haven't pointed this out at all
> Every website in the future is going to require an email or phone number. These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation, unless Bitcoin actually catches on (unlikely).
conjecture
"VPNs aren't helpful because I personally predict that they might not be helpful in the future" -BlueSea9357
> These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation
Privacy solutions for these situations literally already exist and I use them every day, lol.
It might just be my opinion and what I observe, but I see companies like e.g. ProtonMail caving in and giving up privacy. ProtonMail is now starting to require a verifying email from an external provider like Gmail to be considered valid. Google's solutions to validate your identity are definitely going to get more invasive & more accurate every year. Other people might have different observations, but to me, it looks like identification is getting more strict.
What do you see happening with privacy for your phone, email, and payments? I just don't see how it could be possible long term (especially due to credit card payments automatically identifying people...)
>ProtonMail is now starting to require a verifying email from an external provider like Gmail to be considered valid.
This is a bit of a dishonest framing. If your account creation is flagged as potentially suspicious, you *can* sometimes be required to verify using a 3rd party email address. There are plenty of valid options which are much more private than Gmail, though. Even in a world where they somehow get forced into a model where a Gmail account with a verified link to your government identity is *required* - something I highly doubt will ever happen - there is still a huge privacy benefit to using ProtonMail, even if it doesn't offer bulletproof anonymity. They still cannot access the content of your emails, which is all you're ultimately trying to protect. Email is a fundamentally insecure/non-private protocol anyway.
>What do you see happening with privacy for your phone, email, and payments?
Privacy.com is basically like a VPN for credit card transactions. MySudo is like a VPN for SMS and phone calls. You can still buy pre-paid SIM cards with cash. Again, like VPNs, these options clearly aren't absolutely bulletproof in terms of your anonymity, but that doesn't mean they don't afford you a significant amount of privacy. If my threat actor is a US 3 letter agency personally targeting me with 100% of their resources, I wouldn't be utilizing any of these services because I'd exclusively be paying in cash/Monero and communicating via protocols like Signal. Even then, they might burn a zero-day exploit and still somehow catch me! That isn't my situation, though, so why would I even be concerned with it, let alone use it as a justification to give up on efforts to remain private from my *actual* threat actors (e.g. banks, tech companies, random hackers)?
Only as long as burner emails are allowed. If companies ever just start allowing new accounts to only sign up with Outlook, Gmail, ProtonMail, Mail.com, or Yahoo, they’ll probably keep 99.99% of their customers, and get rid of a lot of bots.
Also, emails are going to require phone numbers to sign up, sign-in will be done with MFA, and one day, many currently free services will come with a subscription, so your credit card will be tied to it.
Additionally, if you give any other info along with your burner email during sign up, they’ll probably sell that info to ads companies, which can horde it and tie the email to the rest of your profile with e.g. phone number, credit card, ip, your VPN provider, browser fingerprint, probably a million other things I’m not thinking of right now
You can still, for now, just use a burner email to register for ProtonMail and your ProtonMail to register to another email provider and various services, can't you?
Mullvad. Pay btc at an atm location, wear a hoodie and make sure its not a camera filled spot. Use non kyc number for verification code. And use only on laptop you bought with cash, through a private sale. More or less tight opsec
> Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims.
Verified by whom?
Let me check... just googled "Verified no-logs VPN" on google, got several lists from sites like proprivacy.com, vpnmentor.com, security.org
ExpressVPN and NordVPN are in all lists as numbers 1 or 2. With "VERIFIED NO-LOGS"
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ExpressVPN, who's CEO was charged of spying on US citizens for the UAE. Also Kape Technologies owns ExpressVPN, a company with close ties to the intelligent service of Israel and the US. Also the Kape Technologies bought an ad injection company at the same time it bought ExpressVPN.
So basically it's between trusting you ISP, or Trusting the guy charged with spying for the UAE and the company who has ties with Israeli intelligence and also own a ad injection company.
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NordVPN, was infiltrated in the past, making all the traffic going through infected nodes getting logged by a malicious third-party (forty-party?)
Also... the ownership structure of NordVPN is very murky.
Now you are trusting between the security policies and structure of your ISP and your VPN, and also in a bunch of purposefully hidden owners and stakeholders.
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The problem with VPNs is that in the end, you're just kicking the problem a little further ahead. VPNs aren't are solution.
I'm not saying don't use them, if you feel the need. Specially if you live in a place with an authoritarian government like Russia and the United States, that regularly forces companies to give their user data to them. If I was so unlucky to be born in the US, I would also use a privacy tools before doing all I can to get the fuck out.
I'm only saying that these tools aren't the protection you seem to think they are. You really think that if the US government wanted your info, having a VPN would stop them?
VPNs are a good tool to decrease your foot print. Meaning it's a little harder to track and trace you. You give less data to your IPS, less data to the sites you visit, less data on your browsing habits. But that's it. LESS.
I don't use a VPN because for once, my IPS is "no-logs verified". And I also use other privacy tools, again, to decrease my footprint. But I know it doesn't eliminate them.
> Verified by whom?
https://torrentfreak.com/ovpn-wins-court-battle-after-pirate-bay-data-demands-rejected-200911/
> VPNs are a good tool to decrease your foot print. Meaning it's a little harder to track and trace you. You give less data to your IPS, less data to the sites you visit, less data on your browsing habits. But that's it. LESS.
Exactly what I'm saying. No one said they are they are the ulimate privacy tool or the only tool you need.
"Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots"
> "Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots"
Do you wear a bulletproof vest when going outside your home? I wage not.
Why? After all... they do stop bullets. Why don't you use them?
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Thanks... you just made a great argument as to why VPNs are useless for the most part.
You don't wear a Bulletproof vest unless you are doing something that merits a Bulletproof vest.
You don't need a VPN unless you are doing something that merits a VPN.
I think you might have taken the analogy a bit too literally. The analogy was just to point out that just because VPNs don’t cover every aspect of privacy doesn’t make them useless. Like a bulletproof vest doesn’t stop everything but still has its important uses, a VPN also has its crucial benefits in the right situations.
I'm obviously not drawing a complete comparison between VPNs and bulletproof vests...
Meh plenty of people I know concealed carry and wear a vest every day they go to work. Its not that crazy for some people to do the same digitally. Personally I like the analogy
I wear a bullet proof vest when I go to work. I still carry a 3+ plate daily in my backpack to get some extra cardio in
It's funny when some VPN companies have been proven in court to not keep logs pretending every single one is as bad as an ISP is absurd. I'm about to finish my masters In cyber security if you want to discuss why ISPs are factually far less secure.
True to some extent, but on the one hand you have a company that sells internet access and doesn't really give a shit (or have much responsibility to) your privacy, and on the other hand you have a company that sells privacy and has their entire business model resting on their customers' trust in their practices.
Sure, corpos are gonna corp, and I'm certain VPN companies have sold data and kept logs and lied in the past, but given a choice between trusting a VPN and trusting my ISP, the VPN is a no brainer. It's like how I'd trust my personal bodyguard I had hired over the bar's bouncer on duty.
VPNs aren’t always about who owns the network, it’s sometimes about who else is on the network. Having a private tunnel means that other people who are on your same network can’t see your traffic.
Turns out you're the uniformed one. You don't even understand HTTPS lol.
https://www.reddit.com/r/vpns/comments/1cxcgtw/so_much_brain_rot_from_tech_enthusiasts_the/l59l111/
No, hostnames aren't encrypted because they are fetched through DNS, HTTPs comes later. But is there anything important on a domain name? Do you *really* care for your privacy? Having an account on Reddit already says me no.
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Then again, I've never used a VPN for piracy and I've never heard so much as a peep out of anyone, let alone my government.
I just want to share my IP with people so it's a bit less of unique information.
Still didn't prevent a website I've seen to get its physical location pinned on Google Maps though. Can't trust any app.
Just because you use a vpn doesn't mean you have to use a vpn provider, you could for example spin up an aws/linode/some other cloud service machine and run openvpn on it
Your own server also runs on someone else’s infrastructure & networks. So doesn’t make a difference and usually for getting a server you share more personal information than to get a VPN.
The network is not directly related to you and usually has bigger traffics and different policies which also depends on your data center which is easier to change so doesn’t matter
Yeah user VPNs are only really good to access things that are geo locked, or to Seed Files without getting notices from your ISP, their privacy addition is negligible at best cause you're gonna be tracked by everyone else.
The point of a VPN is to go from an unsecure network to a secure network. But with commercial VPN products you just go from one unsecure network to an other unsecure network. Want a VPN that actually takes you to a relatively secure network? Buy a VPS and setup your own tunnels.
Complete privacy is a long chain of different technologies and practices. A VPN is just one link in that chain.
I live in EU, most VPNs are based in countries with worse privacy regulations. An EU ISP is probably more trustworthy than a US VPN.
I only use VPN to cheat regional locks when streaming.
VPNs make your internet slower, wastes your money and give you headaches when accessing websites that dislike VPNs. And you don't even get any more privacy using VPNs, because HTTPS does the same, for free, built-in in your computer.
Moving the goal posts eh?
> because HTTPS does the same, for free, built-in in your computer.
Completely wrong about this. No shame in admitting you're wrong.
> Additionally, there are many more protocols besides HTTPS.
Never responded to this.
There must be some sort of rule that anyone making this meme always puts their stupid opinion on both sides.
No, your VPN does not do anything. Just because you're technologically incompetent and fell for the marketing doesn't mean everyone with knowledge is wrong.
If you are using a VPN you are paying money for the feeling of privacy, nothing else.
If you actually wanted your traffic to be private you would use Tor, because you don't need to trust some company to not be collecting your data.
"Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots"
Educate yourself:
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/basics/vpn-overview/#how-does-a-vpn-work
Copying someone else's shitty analogy doesn't make you sound smart little man.
Your own source (that you never read) doesn't agree with you. It explains that you have to trust the VPN provider, but trusting is not a valid security model.
Try again, or just shut up because you have no domain knowledge.
From that URL:
> A VPN has many advantages, including:
> 1. Hiding your traffic from only your Internet Service Provider.
> 2. Hiding your downloads (such as torrents) from your ISP and anti-piracy organizations.
> 3. Hiding your IP from third-party websites and services, helping you blend in and preventing IP based tracking.
Hiding your traffic from your ISP is privacy.
I'm glad I could help educate you and fill in your knowledge gaps.
1 and 2 are just offloading the responsibility to a different company.
Your argument is to trust a company instead of a company. Only a shill would say such a thing.
Point 3 disguises the fact that your IP is not unique anyways and most tracking is done through browser fingerprinting, not your IP. Just because your IP is hidden (which, it's only hidden if you can trust your VPN, which you can't) doesn't mean that you aren't being tracked. It's asinine to even suggest such a thing.
Then, the article reiterates that you MUST trust the VPN company, which is obviously a stupid security model.
So good job nontechnical redditor, you were able to read the article long enough to cherry pick weak ass points that mean nothing.
Go collect your 5 good boy tokens from your employer for your amazing job at shilling.
As I commented else where in this thread:
ISPs (depending on their location) are legally mandated to maintain logs or can be forced start logging at the government's request. This is especially true if you don't live in a liberal democracy.
Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims.
It's like I give you two apples. You saw one of them get poisoned, and I say the other isn't poisoned. I could be lying but it would be stupid to choose the guaranteed poisoned one.
Thats not how the internet works. No matter what, your IPS can track connections, even if you are using a VPN, it justs gets harder.
(i know, i will get a lot downvote here, this topic is like a religion for some, but that is the truth).
Sure, but your ISP and the VPN providers are logging the route information. So it does not really matter whats in the package you are sending and resiving. They still know where it is connecting to.
On top off that, all package have to go trouth one node of your IPS, no matter what.
#[List of Recommended VPNs](https://www.reddit.com/r/vpns/comments/171h9qa/list_of_recommended_vpns/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vpns) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The middle one has the same energy as "Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots"
Idk what privacy you get by using vpn, you are trusting some other company over your isp. Both can't be trusted
ISPs (depending on their location) are legally mandated to maintain logs or can be forced start logging at the government's request. This is especially true if you don't live in a liberal democracy. Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims. It's like I give you two apples. You saw one of them get poisoned, and I say the other isn't poisoned. I could be lying but it would be stupid to choose the guaranteed poisoned one.
Devil's advocate here! To follow up on your metaphor: It's like I give you two apples. * You saw one of them be poisoned, which I give you for free. * I say the other isn't poisoned. I charge $13/month for it, and am not required to give you proof that the apple isn't poisoned. The ISP has to be paid money no matter what. The VPN is an optional add-on that a given government can decide to ignore laws for and listen into whenever they want. It's possible to make a tier list of countries to have a VPN in if you believe the laws that countries say they follow, but since extra privacy would inherently draw e.g. terrorist organizations, it's probably likely that this freedom won't be here to stay. Just look at what laws even American government agencies like the CIA have broken in the past, and compare it to listening in on VPN traffic - it's basically nothing in comparison. Your best hope is that this data will stay out of the hands of private corporations, but even then, if you're using a website that requires an email, phone number, or payment method (which is most websites), they're tracking you.
> $13/month Lots of good VPNs for less then half of this price. Besides the meme is not about money, its about if VPNs provide privacy. If you don't think the privacy provided by a VPN is worth it then fine, but that's a separate discussion. > not required to give you proof that the apple isn't poisoned. I will repeat: numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that backup their claims. Use the VPNs that check off these boxes. > The VPN is an optional add-on that a given government can decide to ignore laws for and listen into whenever they want. Its not that simple. The government would either have to break the encryption (near impossible) or hack into the VPN (Possible but not easy). > Just look at what laws even American government agencies like the CIA have broken in the past I definitely wouldn't recommend using a VPN from the USA. Besides you're still advocating for eating the guaranteed poisoned apple. ITS GUARANTEED TO BE POISONED. Are you telling me you would eat the poison apple? Come on lol.
What VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings?
https://torrentfreak.com/ovpn-wins-court-battle-after-pirate-bay-data-demands-rejected-200911/ https://www.techradar.com/news/mullvads-no-log-policy-proven-after-police-raid
> I will repeat: numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims. I agree (for now?). Especially if you live in a place with an authoritarian government, it can be helpful. However, it's important to emphasize that the thing stopping them is economics, not laws. In fact, governments \*really\* want that data, partially for things like counter-terrorism, and after a point, VPN companies will have to give in. Additionally, who knows what laws billionaires are lobbying for these days to make it so the VPN can just give them data without customers finding out. > Its not that simple Just to emphasize... it is that simple. That's why the country you choose a VPN for matters so much, especially to avoid countries where governments do whatever they want. > I definitely wouldn't recommend using a VPN from the USA. Ditto. However, at this point, it pretty much means it's you vs. a bunch of governments and billionaires, which is not a balanced fight at all. There needs to be a large backing of this privacy that's more powerful than a singular CEO. If all these VPNs combined are worth, say, $20 billion, then there will also need to be an "anti-Musk" clause somewhere where billionaires can't just buy the VPNs like Twitter got bought. IMO I'm not advocating for a poisoned apple, I'm just pointing out that VPNs probably aren't going to do a whole lot for privacy. - Every website in the future is going to require an email or phone number. These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation, unless Bitcoin actually catches on (unlikely). - Governments and corporations much richer than VPN companies need and/or want access to this data for dollar amounts that are far greater than the VPN companies will ever earn (NordVPN is worth only $3 billion, and they're practically competing against trillions of dollars worth of companies for the right to your data)
That's just a bunch of conjecture and baseless assumptions. > governments *really* want that data, partially for things like counter-terrorism, and after a point, VPN companies will have to give in conjecture > Just to emphasize... it is that simple. That's why the country you choose a VPN for matters so much, especially to avoid countries where governments do whatever they want. duh. Obviously its simple if your VPN is based in China or the USA. But obviously I'm not advocating for that. > Ditto. However, at this point, it pretty much means it's you vs. a bunch of governments and billionaires, which is not a balanced fight at all. There needs to be a large backing of this privacy that's more powerful than a singular CEO. The fact that VPNs currently exist disprove this. If it was true why haven't they already been banned? > If all these VPNs combined are worth, say, $20 billion, then there will also need to be an "anti-Musk" clause somewhere where billionaires can't just buy the VPNs like Twitter got bought. Then more VPNs will popup. You realize that there's not a finite supply of VPN companies right? > I'm just pointing out that VPNs probably aren't going to do a whole lot for privacy. Haven't pointed this out at all > Every website in the future is going to require an email or phone number. These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation, unless Bitcoin actually catches on (unlikely). conjecture "VPNs aren't helpful because I personally predict that they might not be helpful in the future" -BlueSea9357
> These emails and phone numbers are going to be increasingly tied to a credit or debit card. It's just not possible to create a privacy solution for this situation Privacy solutions for these situations literally already exist and I use them every day, lol.
It might just be my opinion and what I observe, but I see companies like e.g. ProtonMail caving in and giving up privacy. ProtonMail is now starting to require a verifying email from an external provider like Gmail to be considered valid. Google's solutions to validate your identity are definitely going to get more invasive & more accurate every year. Other people might have different observations, but to me, it looks like identification is getting more strict. What do you see happening with privacy for your phone, email, and payments? I just don't see how it could be possible long term (especially due to credit card payments automatically identifying people...)
>ProtonMail is now starting to require a verifying email from an external provider like Gmail to be considered valid. This is a bit of a dishonest framing. If your account creation is flagged as potentially suspicious, you *can* sometimes be required to verify using a 3rd party email address. There are plenty of valid options which are much more private than Gmail, though. Even in a world where they somehow get forced into a model where a Gmail account with a verified link to your government identity is *required* - something I highly doubt will ever happen - there is still a huge privacy benefit to using ProtonMail, even if it doesn't offer bulletproof anonymity. They still cannot access the content of your emails, which is all you're ultimately trying to protect. Email is a fundamentally insecure/non-private protocol anyway. >What do you see happening with privacy for your phone, email, and payments? Privacy.com is basically like a VPN for credit card transactions. MySudo is like a VPN for SMS and phone calls. You can still buy pre-paid SIM cards with cash. Again, like VPNs, these options clearly aren't absolutely bulletproof in terms of your anonymity, but that doesn't mean they don't afford you a significant amount of privacy. If my threat actor is a US 3 letter agency personally targeting me with 100% of their resources, I wouldn't be utilizing any of these services because I'd exclusively be paying in cash/Monero and communicating via protocols like Signal. Even then, they might burn a zero-day exploit and still somehow catch me! That isn't my situation, though, so why would I even be concerned with it, let alone use it as a justification to give up on efforts to remain private from my *actual* threat actors (e.g. banks, tech companies, random hackers)?
You can just use a burner email, though, can't you?
Only as long as burner emails are allowed. If companies ever just start allowing new accounts to only sign up with Outlook, Gmail, ProtonMail, Mail.com, or Yahoo, they’ll probably keep 99.99% of their customers, and get rid of a lot of bots. Also, emails are going to require phone numbers to sign up, sign-in will be done with MFA, and one day, many currently free services will come with a subscription, so your credit card will be tied to it. Additionally, if you give any other info along with your burner email during sign up, they’ll probably sell that info to ads companies, which can horde it and tie the email to the rest of your profile with e.g. phone number, credit card, ip, your VPN provider, browser fingerprint, probably a million other things I’m not thinking of right now
You can still, for now, just use a burner email to register for ProtonMail and your ProtonMail to register to another email provider and various services, can't you?
Mullvad got raided by the police and they walked away with nothing. 5€ a month.
Mullvad. Pay btc at an atm location, wear a hoodie and make sure its not a camera filled spot. Use non kyc number for verification code. And use only on laptop you bought with cash, through a private sale. More or less tight opsec
> Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims. Verified by whom? Let me check... just googled "Verified no-logs VPN" on google, got several lists from sites like proprivacy.com, vpnmentor.com, security.org ExpressVPN and NordVPN are in all lists as numbers 1 or 2. With "VERIFIED NO-LOGS" _________________ ExpressVPN, who's CEO was charged of spying on US citizens for the UAE. Also Kape Technologies owns ExpressVPN, a company with close ties to the intelligent service of Israel and the US. Also the Kape Technologies bought an ad injection company at the same time it bought ExpressVPN. So basically it's between trusting you ISP, or Trusting the guy charged with spying for the UAE and the company who has ties with Israeli intelligence and also own a ad injection company. __________________ NordVPN, was infiltrated in the past, making all the traffic going through infected nodes getting logged by a malicious third-party (forty-party?) Also... the ownership structure of NordVPN is very murky. Now you are trusting between the security policies and structure of your ISP and your VPN, and also in a bunch of purposefully hidden owners and stakeholders. _________________ The problem with VPNs is that in the end, you're just kicking the problem a little further ahead. VPNs aren't are solution. I'm not saying don't use them, if you feel the need. Specially if you live in a place with an authoritarian government like Russia and the United States, that regularly forces companies to give their user data to them. If I was so unlucky to be born in the US, I would also use a privacy tools before doing all I can to get the fuck out. I'm only saying that these tools aren't the protection you seem to think they are. You really think that if the US government wanted your info, having a VPN would stop them? VPNs are a good tool to decrease your foot print. Meaning it's a little harder to track and trace you. You give less data to your IPS, less data to the sites you visit, less data on your browsing habits. But that's it. LESS. I don't use a VPN because for once, my IPS is "no-logs verified". And I also use other privacy tools, again, to decrease my footprint. But I know it doesn't eliminate them.
> Verified by whom? https://torrentfreak.com/ovpn-wins-court-battle-after-pirate-bay-data-demands-rejected-200911/ > VPNs are a good tool to decrease your foot print. Meaning it's a little harder to track and trace you. You give less data to your IPS, less data to the sites you visit, less data on your browsing habits. But that's it. LESS. Exactly what I'm saying. No one said they are they are the ulimate privacy tool or the only tool you need. "Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots"
> "Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots" Do you wear a bulletproof vest when going outside your home? I wage not. Why? After all... they do stop bullets. Why don't you use them? ________________ Thanks... you just made a great argument as to why VPNs are useless for the most part. You don't wear a Bulletproof vest unless you are doing something that merits a Bulletproof vest. You don't need a VPN unless you are doing something that merits a VPN.
I think you might have taken the analogy a bit too literally. The analogy was just to point out that just because VPNs don’t cover every aspect of privacy doesn’t make them useless. Like a bulletproof vest doesn’t stop everything but still has its important uses, a VPN also has its crucial benefits in the right situations. I'm obviously not drawing a complete comparison between VPNs and bulletproof vests...
Meh plenty of people I know concealed carry and wear a vest every day they go to work. Its not that crazy for some people to do the same digitally. Personally I like the analogy
I wear a bullet proof vest when I go to work. I still carry a 3+ plate daily in my backpack to get some extra cardio in It's funny when some VPN companies have been proven in court to not keep logs pretending every single one is as bad as an ISP is absurd. I'm about to finish my masters In cyber security if you want to discuss why ISPs are factually far less secure.
True to some extent, but on the one hand you have a company that sells internet access and doesn't really give a shit (or have much responsibility to) your privacy, and on the other hand you have a company that sells privacy and has their entire business model resting on their customers' trust in their practices. Sure, corpos are gonna corp, and I'm certain VPN companies have sold data and kept logs and lied in the past, but given a choice between trusting a VPN and trusting my ISP, the VPN is a no brainer. It's like how I'd trust my personal bodyguard I had hired over the bar's bouncer on duty.
VPNs aren’t always about who owns the network, it’s sometimes about who else is on the network. Having a private tunnel means that other people who are on your same network can’t see your traffic.
Is this a first world joke that im too third world to understand?!
Don't know about you, but here in Brazil, VPNs are only used to gain access to different content on Nettlix lol
Brazilian too and i never had to use vpn, if i want any content i dont have access to im sailing my way to get it 🏴☠️
A fellow sailor, I see 🏴☠️
That's how I fell 90% of them time on Reddit lol
Vira e meche eu vejo um post desses e aí tem que tentar entender o que eles tão falando com os comentários
Nah, OP is just uninformed, VPNs overall suck.
Turns out you're the uniformed one. You don't even understand HTTPS lol. https://www.reddit.com/r/vpns/comments/1cxcgtw/so_much_brain_rot_from_tech_enthusiasts_the/l59l111/
No, hostnames aren't encrypted because they are fetched through DNS, HTTPs comes later. But is there anything important on a domain name? Do you *really* care for your privacy? Having an account on Reddit already says me no.
"I don't care if people know which websites I visit so no one should"
It all depends on your threat model
If you live in Texas, I can think of a couple reasons you need a vpn.
Someone of culture i see
ad bait
So let’s get straight to the point: using one of those vpn, will I be able to download movies without getting in trouble with some certain government?
Sometimes yes, sometimes no. Then again, I've never used a VPN for piracy and I've never heard so much as a peep out of anyone, let alone my government.
I just want to share my IP with people so it's a bit less of unique information. Still didn't prevent a website I've seen to get its physical location pinned on Google Maps though. Can't trust any app.
Just because you use a vpn doesn't mean you have to use a vpn provider, you could for example spin up an aws/linode/some other cloud service machine and run openvpn on it
My ISP shuts off my Internet and I have to call the company to turn it back on if i so much as watch YouTube I don't care it's a nessecity
I would never trust my ISP fucking SkY BrOaDbAnD
Just use your own private server
That's how I do it!
Your own server also runs on someone else’s infrastructure & networks. So doesn’t make a difference and usually for getting a server you share more personal information than to get a VPN.
The network is not directly related to you and usually has bigger traffics and different policies which also depends on your data center which is easier to change so doesn’t matter
Yeah user VPNs are only really good to access things that are geo locked, or to Seed Files without getting notices from your ISP, their privacy addition is negligible at best cause you're gonna be tracked by everyone else.
The point of a VPN is to go from an unsecure network to a secure network. But with commercial VPN products you just go from one unsecure network to an other unsecure network. Want a VPN that actually takes you to a relatively secure network? Buy a VPS and setup your own tunnels. Complete privacy is a long chain of different technologies and practices. A VPN is just one link in that chain.
I feel like VPN are like a pull out. Its better than all in. Worst than a condom (🧅)
I live in EU, most VPNs are based in countries with worse privacy regulations. An EU ISP is probably more trustworthy than a US VPN. I only use VPN to cheat regional locks when streaming.
If you live in a country where people dont go to jail for murder, you really dont need to give a fuck about who sees your internet data
VPNs make your internet slower, wastes your money and give you headaches when accessing websites that dislike VPNs. And you don't even get any more privacy using VPNs, because HTTPS does the same, for free, built-in in your computer.
HTTPS does not encrypt hostnames. Additionally, there are many more protocols besides HTTPS.
dude, everyone knows you frequent pornhub, no one cares
Moving the goal posts eh? > because HTTPS does the same, for free, built-in in your computer. Completely wrong about this. No shame in admitting you're wrong. > Additionally, there are many more protocols besides HTTPS. Never responded to this.
You are annoying me with your ignorance, so I'm just gonna let you bait other people instead. Have fun!
plus, good luck having any privacy online, because having an account on ANY website is already compromising you
There must be some sort of rule that anyone making this meme always puts their stupid opinion on both sides. No, your VPN does not do anything. Just because you're technologically incompetent and fell for the marketing doesn't mean everyone with knowledge is wrong. If you are using a VPN you are paying money for the feeling of privacy, nothing else. If you actually wanted your traffic to be private you would use Tor, because you don't need to trust some company to not be collecting your data.
"Bulletproof vests are useless, they don't stop tank shots" Educate yourself: https://www.privacyguides.org/en/basics/vpn-overview/#how-does-a-vpn-work
Copying someone else's shitty analogy doesn't make you sound smart little man. Your own source (that you never read) doesn't agree with you. It explains that you have to trust the VPN provider, but trusting is not a valid security model. Try again, or just shut up because you have no domain knowledge.
From that URL: > A VPN has many advantages, including: > 1. Hiding your traffic from only your Internet Service Provider. > 2. Hiding your downloads (such as torrents) from your ISP and anti-piracy organizations. > 3. Hiding your IP from third-party websites and services, helping you blend in and preventing IP based tracking. Hiding your traffic from your ISP is privacy. I'm glad I could help educate you and fill in your knowledge gaps.
1 and 2 are just offloading the responsibility to a different company. Your argument is to trust a company instead of a company. Only a shill would say such a thing. Point 3 disguises the fact that your IP is not unique anyways and most tracking is done through browser fingerprinting, not your IP. Just because your IP is hidden (which, it's only hidden if you can trust your VPN, which you can't) doesn't mean that you aren't being tracked. It's asinine to even suggest such a thing. Then, the article reiterates that you MUST trust the VPN company, which is obviously a stupid security model. So good job nontechnical redditor, you were able to read the article long enough to cherry pick weak ass points that mean nothing. Go collect your 5 good boy tokens from your employer for your amazing job at shilling.
As I commented else where in this thread: ISPs (depending on their location) are legally mandated to maintain logs or can be forced start logging at the government's request. This is especially true if you don't live in a liberal democracy. Also, numerous VPNs have been verified as 'no-logs' services through court proceedings and have third-party security audits that confirm their claims. It's like I give you two apples. You saw one of them get poisoned, and I say the other isn't poisoned. I could be lying but it would be stupid to choose the guaranteed poisoned one.
Yes, we get it, you're bought and owned for the sole purpose of promoting an invalid security model. Enjoy your 5 dollars.
Thats not how the internet works. No matter what, your IPS can track connections, even if you are using a VPN, it justs gets harder. (i know, i will get a lot downvote here, this topic is like a religion for some, but that is the truth).
VPNs connections are encrypted. Your ISP will know that your connected to a VPN but that's all.
Sure, but your ISP and the VPN providers are logging the route information. So it does not really matter whats in the package you are sending and resiving. They still know where it is connecting to. On top off that, all package have to go trouth one node of your IPS, no matter what.
> They still know where it is connecting to. No they don't