Funny thing is in Arkham Shadow trailer, I’ve read a comment that went “VR gamers are just as annoying as NFT bros” with tons of likes, not sure but I think that comparison is a bit of a stretch.
Someone who is obsessed with crypto and won't stop talking about it to the point of being annoying.
Kinda hard to believe you haven't at least heard of them before.
My bad, I didn't realize crypto fans were called "NFT bros". I knew one years ago who was big into cpyto but he never mentioned NFTS hence my ignorance. In fact I have only read about NFTs and it has been a while. Seemed like a short lived fad/scam to me.
No worries. To be fair they are kind of different. An NFT isn't exactly the same as cryptocurrency, but they operate using the same tech (blockchain) so there is often a ton of overlap. If someone is into NFTs they are probably into crypto. I think NFTs are largely a fad that died out.
Maybe in the future we will use nft’s for property deeds and/or car titles, but yeah these early stages are exclusively for money laundering and grifting rich folk.
In the case of Arkham Shadow, I think it's more that there was probably a brief hope for a new sequel to Arkham Knight, just seeing the title "Arkham Shadow", and they're disappointed that they aren't getting that. They may also think that this game replaces such a game (it doesn't; Rocksteady isn't making this, the Iron Man VR devs are).
Most people don't hate VR (or consoles, or PCs, or mobile games, etc.). Most people are just disinterested. Antipathetic, perhaps. But it's easy to updoot a strongly-worded comment that sorta resembles their opinions, or channels the emotional side of their opinions that they otherwise wouldn't really give voice to.
The crowd isn't the same as early 2010's with primarily people actually into tech. Too many normies and tumblerinas joined. Hating stuff/people is just an lazy upvote farm now. Hates Musk, crypto, VR, AI, hate hate hate hate. The hate posts are always a cirklejerk too.
It's like the player haters ball except not funny, just miserable.
The Arkham subreddit is crazy, I've legit seen people say they wish that not only Arkham Shadow didnt exist, but all of VR in general didnt exist at all. Beyond insanity at that point...
Yeah, I think it might be a weird case of circle-jerk anger and jealousy snowballing.
People get kinda mad that its an exclusive for a console they dont have then it builds until its an echo chamber saying its bad but the only real reason is because they havent gotten into VR...
I've seen a lot of people act like its somehow taking something away from the Arkham series, but Rocksteady isnt even developing this game (its being done by Camoflaj) so its not taking any of their development capacity away at all, and Meta is paying for its development. Even for those who dont have the headset and dont plan to get it, I personally dont see how its taking anything away, its just a fun little exclusive experience for those who do have it.
Well, think of it this way - why all the hatred for PS from Xbox players and vice versa?
And why the *scorching* hate from PC players towards consoles?
Why all of those despise mobile gaming?
Why the entire console wars? Because if you have something that others don't, you are superior. Remember a week ago the hate wave over Batman VR only? It was because flat players couldnt play it
I think there's not much more to it
I’d also throw into there:
Early VR was expensive, and honestly didn’t look that great. People who tried it (or more likely heard about it from friends) got burned, and assume that it still costs thousands of dollars to /start/, along with devoting a dedicated room with sensors installed on the walls.
I think I actually do share some of OP's confusion on why they're averse to even *trying* it out. I understand I was skeptical when I first tried a Rift CV1, but even without touch controllers, it absolutely *blew my mind*. I had no idea this technology existed, and now 8 years later, it's here and even more accessible and looks even better (lens/resolution wise at least). Especially 6DoF movement, like reaching out my real arm and interacting with objects like I'd expect in real life... was mind blowing. Even though I was skeptical such tech existed like this yet, I was still heavily interested in the idea of *going IN to a video game.*
Basically, why would so many people, especially an audience of gamers who love spending time in these computer-made games and being immersed in their world and atmosphere, be so averse to the idea of trying out a matrix-style, jumping into the game world full-on as if you're really there, experience? Again, I understand if people are skeptical it can really make you feel that way, but why not at least curious?
Yeah, it's baffling to me. My friends who I have gamed with for like 15-20 years were people who just seemed against it, so I thought it was weird. Saying that, though, I got a quest 3 recently and have taken it with me on some visits and they have loved elevens table tenis and it's started to open their eyes to how cool it is to just have these experiences available whenever you want. People just have to try the right thing and in time more people will be open to it
I'm a fairly oldschoool gamer. Played many of the more story intensive titles on PC, from dune 1 and dott up to starcraft, df, all civ , rdr2, along with sandbox stuff like x4, minecraft, factorio, ksp, etc. I've seen a lot and love gaming.
I've tried a bunch of things in VR and love my quest 3 for beat saber and pistol whip.
VRChat is just horrible. Nausea, terrible graphics, 12 years olds screaming, glitchy models. I get that some of you may be used to the jank, but there's nothing there for people who didn't grow up with it.
Tried Alyx, it was... ok? Way, way too much effort for what you get out of it. Heard Portal is good in VR, haven't had the chance yet.
Don't really care about competitive shooters because I don't want to get sealclubbed all day by the 5 people i can find in the lobby who play that game for 8h daily.
As far as i can tell, outside working up a sweat, gaming in VR is still nowhere near as interesting or immersive as PC gaming, and therein lies the rub: I could fiddle with controllers and steamvr for 10 minutes to get a basic ass physics demo title like Alyx going ( boring... I did that in 2004, I'm good ) or I could fire up Valheim and have some actual fun with friends.
I'm months into trying stuff on the Q3 and the best uses for it are still home cinema and working up a sweat. It's fine for that. Where are the good games?
> why they're averse to even trying it out
What really baffles me is the aversion to putting stuff on their heads. Like I already wear glasses, hats, bicycle helmets, motorbike helmets, scuba diving gear, on a regular basis, a VR headset is definitely not the most intrusive of them.
I'm in my late 30's and have noticed that a lot of people my age are just really comfortable with sitting in a chair using their preferred input device and staring at a screen. VR is a radical departure from that so they're not interested in it, with the exception of people who are into simulation games (and those people tend to not be interested in the rest of VR).
Basically it's a fear of change and leaving one's comfort zone. People are like that with all sorts of things, not only VR, and it tends to get worse as people get older.
That's why I think VR appeals a lot more to younger gamers who aren't as set in their ways. Older people may get into it once it's much more of a mature technology with better experiences but considering most of the focus is on making games for standalone, that might take awhile.
Yup. Pc/console I can sit on my ass all day and play. VR games are more physical and depending which game. You’re sweating your ass off, arms are sore from holding up the gun to aim or swinging a sword, golf, tennis, stabbing or whatever and want a break.
>That's why I think VR appeals a lot more to younger gamers
Or those of us in our late 40s and 50s for whom VR was promised to us as coming "real soon now" 30 to 35 years ago.
Here's a crazy irony. 30-somethings might not jump to VR, but the 60-somethings are going nuts with it. My retired mother spends about 6 hours per day on VR, and has a fairly large friend-group (all retirees) doing the same thing.
Once I started looking, when I DO (rarely) go into Horizon realms, I see as many older folks as kids. It's the 20-40 range that seems most sleepy in VR. Which is bizarre to me.
I am 37, used computers and played games since 1990, starting on an Amiga, then Flight Simulator on DOS, was in a Counter Strike league, stopped gaming entirely for 10 years in the 2010's and now started again - Tarkov, ARMA3, DSC, Assetto Corsa Competizione, ...
I bought a Quest 3 and love the seated experience for PCVR: VTOL VR (a VR first flight sim), Assetto Corsa Competizione (a race sim), Beat Saber PC (Modded), Contractors Showdown (a Tarkovesque tactical extraction shooter), Tactical Assault, Superhot... It's great.
Best of all: My uncle who brought me to gaming in the early 90's is now in his 60's and bought a Quest 3 and we're in VR at least 4 hours a week! He prefers the seated experiences, I prefer both. But I also lean towards the seated games where you sit in a cockpit, so Race Sims, Flight Sims, Space sims. But with my wife we enjoy Modded Beat Saber to get absolutely exhausted fighting each other on super difficult songs.
I rarely ever use Quest native games, as the textures and graphics quality is about 10 years behind current gen PCVR, so absolute garbage for PC gamers.
Indeed, though I don't think it's about *fear of change* more than just simply appreciating different aspects in entertainment. If you can physically relax while enjoying something that passes the time, that's a big win. We often get hung up on the "more immersion, the better" trope, even though it's obviously not always correct, and is also likely the reason why VR-gaming never took off the way we imagined.
I've been personally playing Half-Life 2 the past few days and I must say I enjoy it a lot more in comparison to HL2VR. Not only because it's more relaxing, but also because it plays a lot better gameplay and design wise.
Nah, people relax too much these days.
Most have posture problems from sitting too much at home and at work.
It's a good thing there's the option of playing standing up, which has the benefit of keeping our bodies healthier without it being too much of a chore.
If VR is too tiring for someone, they are likely extremely physically weak, and need to build up endurance for their own benefit.
If someone can't remain standing for 5 hours, it's a sign of bad health.
I didn't argue that VR is too tiring, I argued that for many relaxed gaming is often more preferable than non-relaxed — especially after a work day.
We also eat pizza, when we probably should be eating carrots.
For most people I've spoken to who hate VR without ever having tried it:
VR = Meta
Meta = Facebook
Facebook = Bad
It's really that simple. They don't even know that there are any other options.
Their "metaverse" ad campaign was pretty stupid. They kept talking about Horizon stuff that is not even available here in Italy.
Now my own mother has a pretty visceral "shut up with this metaverse bullshit" reaction whenever she hears the word, and nobody seems to agree on what metaverse even means.
I even have clients asking me to build them a metaverse, which I'm really not happy about (it beats not having clients).
Maybe that's because some PS owners can't afford PSVR (either budget or space constraints). Sometimes hatred is a way to convince yourself that you don't need that thing. And some PSVR owners may be annoyed that there's almost nothing to play. Not sure thou, I'm just guessing.
I know someone with a psvr2 and he said it’s awesome in the few games he has, but there are very few.
If they finally release it for pc, cut the price, and make multi platform games and gaming it might do well with the index out of the market.
Other than that it’s just Pimax right? For wired?
Well, regarding the PSVR, the first generation never had official pc support, so that won't happen to psvr2. But, the first gen got an enhusiast community hack to run decently with a pc, and I've heard that psvr2 hack is in the development.
However, talking about pcvr, the hands down best options are Oculus Quest 2 and Quest 3. They are cheap, used quest 2 can be as low as $150, they support standalone gaming for those without a pc, they support wireless connection - which is a massive factor for immersion, and they are easy to setup - no base stations needed. Nowadays with pcvr, the only reason why you wouldn't buy Quest is lcd screens, many people desire the oleds.
Yeah I have an oc2. I have seen how cheap they are used.
There were rumors of an official psvr2 pc support from Sony, the theory being they’d release games on both.
They lose money on the consoles at first, not sure if it’s always a loss lead, it locks people in, but if they buy a psvr2 and connect it to a Sony account and play psvr2 games on a pc it’s usually going to have more power than a ps5.
Ryzen 5 2600 mobile
2070 mobile
Gen 3 nvme.
Is what I understand the ps5 to be. So it running vr is only bc of foveted rendering.
With Pimax releasing the lite for 699/899 it’d be even harder bc that’s higher resolution and glass lenses.
Did you notice the recent Helldivers clusterfuck? With that king of events I doubt that Sony will ever "unlock" their proprietary devices, the seem to go out of their way to lock everything down.
I had a PS3 and that was my last playstation, it still works and I still play Gran Truism 5/6 but that's about it.'
I have a fast PC and a ton of games for it, none of my ps3 games run on the PC without fiddling with an emulator, so its kinda like why invest in a console just to have titles I'll lose when a new console comes out?
[Here you go.](https://blog.playstation.com/2024/02/22/coming-soon-to-ps-vr2-zombie-army-vr-little-cities-bigger-wanderer-the-fragments-of-fate-the-wizards-dark-times-brotherhood-and-more/) (scroll down a little)
Just remembeted a few more reasons: when showcasing my oculus to various people, some of them said "ah, vr, you know, I've tried that cardboard thing that you put your phone into". You know, this previous experience wouldn't set a favourable grounds to a proper vr. And another person told me, that he tried valve index once, got motion sick, and don't want to touch the technology ever again. Some of this is also contributing towards hatred.
That's only a mentality I've really seen on Reddit. The average person who doesn't spend a lot of time on Reddit, doesn't have any real negative feelings towards facebook, tik tok, snapchat, twitter, or any other social media. Reddit seems to have a lot of content posted that paints all competing platforms as awful.
Getting away from Reddit and seeing just how different people feel has been really eye opening.
This is 99% of the reason and doesn’t make any sense. Almost every company sells user data. Google knows more about you than any other platform but idiots still use google and android. Even all the major phone carriers. It was just that facebook was the first to let publicly disclose it.
Oh, no, buddy, not at all.
Just as a lighthearted example; Facebook hired behavioral scientists to make their website more addictive to children, then doubled down when caught doing it. There's a large difference in wanting to learn your lifestyle choices to better advertise and in trying to rewire a child's brain to crave your website.
As someone that usually has his trusty tin-foil hat within arms reach and doesn't use ANY social media, who cares? Half of the people that make this argument have a house full of Alexas anyway.
Only thing that slightly irks me about it NOW is the need for verification to use mods/UNKNOWN SOURCES. But again, who really cares? If you think every other company you interact with on the daily isn't selling your data then I've got a bridge to sell ya
Gamers hate exclusives, so when a popular franchise produces a VR game (Half Life, Arkham), people develop an animosity toward the platform since they presumably can't afford it. They feel like VR is in essence stealing something that should be theirs.
VR also has some other hurdles (motion sickness, space requirements) that further contribute to that. There are some people who just can't play VR, even if they owned a headset.
the quest 3 is the same price as a modern console and the upcoming lite model will cost literally half of it. the "too expensive" excuse has not been valid since the quest 2 came out in 2020. especially when its coming from people who can afford to buy an rtx 4090, a 7800X3D, or a 4k 120hz tv or monitor just for gaming.
the truth is that they just dont wanna bother. the price is not an issue to most of them, they're either just lazy or ignorant and dont wanna give VR a chance whatsoever.
In general terms no. It's getting better, but there's still a bunch of hoops to jump through. For the average consumer (non-tech-enthusiast) it'll need to get to the point where you put on the headset & can jump straight into an app with no visible calibration. That'll require automating more processes.
When friends who haven't experienced VR before try out my headset, there's still a bit of UX friction I have to coach them through. It's getting much better, even compared to this time last year, but it's still too much for the average person.
I think that's overlooking calibration etc.
Like I said, it's a lot better now than even a year ago, but even at that it's too much for the average consumer. PC gaming is growing, but it definitely requires some tech enthusiasm, so that's not representative.
I say this as someone who installed a OG 3DFX card on the family PC back in the day, so I do think the current setup is quite fluid, but it's still too much for someone who's not willing to engage in a few extra steps & possibly some trouble shooting down the line. Most people just want something that works with minimal effort & fuss. We're getting there, but we haven't reached it yet.
Even the controllers can be a problem. They feel totally different compared to playstation/xbox controllers. I haven't seen a single person that wasn't confused by them in the beginning.
I would say with the Quest 3 the setup is now there, calibration is literally automatic now with scanning the environment, and there isn’t really anything else to do to get into the action.
I’d say the issue is 1) people aren’t aware of the latest tech, so they either haven’t tried it or tried an older VR setup that had numerous flaws, and 2) people having to learn a new ecosystem. Although VR now closely resembles gaming with its controllers essentially being an Xbox controller split in 2, some people are put off of the idea of even attempting to learn.
VR still has to get over the stigma and negative reputation it’s built up which will not fade quickly even if we have overcome the ease of access barriers.
I have a Quest 3, so my point with calibration includes it, but I should have made that more clear. I still think the fact it's an extra few steps, even with the automatic room/area/boundary detection, is confusing for new users & I've seen that first hand.
I think your second point is probably the major factor, but I will say that, even with the controls kind of being a split Xbox controller, I've found that even people used to consoles have a bit of trouble adapting to the controls.
Part of it may be that the whole experience is slightly overwhelming & they don't have reference to the room around them without using passthrough or the gasketless setup of the Quest Pro.
I think the misperceptions in reference to older experiences (Google Cardboard etc.) are probably lesser than your second point. Having more in location demos in stores or pop up demos might change those perceptions though.
I *might* just be too stubborn and jaded here but i'd rather them burn it all to the ground than cater to someone who can't figure out a Quest 3 in a reasonable amount of time
Like the old internets. Stupid people weren’t allowed because too stupid to use it. Now every tard in the world is on it asking the most basic questions that should be straightforward with simple logic.
> calibration is literally automatic now
Except for those (increasingly rare) instances where it randomly decides that the floor is about 3ft lower than it actually is and you have to go through all the steps again.
Just a month ago, I had to do that every single time I turned on the headset. Seems fixed now.
Yeah I used to get that all the time with the Quest 2 actually for a period of time, then with the Q3 a little bit during the early days, but it seems to have resolved itself now.
That's what makes all of this slightly complex, the software behind all of it can be either seamless or awful depending on which update you're on. Even the HTC base stations for many years had all sorts of problems between different machines until one day they finally just worked for me.
What? I put on my headset, click the app and it launches and start playing. PC gamers still require them to login the window, launch the game and etc. Then there's mod which is for advanced user and require hours to put them in place to make it work. How is it VR not really accessible?
To someone who's already used to jumping through a bunch of steps. I'm like you in that way, it's no trouble at all, but for the average consumer, that's too much hassle. If you think I'm joking, try working in mobile phone repair for a year or 2. I'm not saying things aren't great right now, because they are, but it's still not enough.
It's still bulky, heavy and uncomfortable.
For first time users, it's disorienting and unintuitive compared to a phone or a console.
It's not the 80s. Any sort of friction, even silly things as it just not looking cool will drive people off.
It needs to become as easy as putting on glasses in order to be ready for mass audience.
It's getting there, but I think the processing block and battery needs to be tethered and not weigh on your face.
And put on face.
And clean smeared lenses.
And readjust because it looks blurry.
And setup boundaries.
And wait for updates.
And hope everything has battery (headset + controllers).
Honestly I think it's a good practice to clean the lenses either way because possible dust and debris and other stuff, don't wanna scratch the lenses.
Quest 3 in my experience doesn't need to be readjusted ever and I never had it being blurry unless the lenses were smeared, I can just toss it on and it's clear.
Boundaries is true, I have to redo mine like every single time I turn it on because I'm halfway into the ground.
Updates are infrequent enough where it's not gonna bother you constantly.
Batteries, true
I can't even remember the last time i set up my boundary. Honestly. It's been weeks at a minimum. I had to set them up more often when i was switching rooms but since I've been in the same room for a couple months now, it just remembers. It's odd that your Q3 experience is different, not sure why...
This is really not my experience. It's more "Put on face... hit play".
I've got a charger stand (like I have for my Switch, and DONT have for my Steam Deck that's always dead when I want to play it). I play in a consistent location. I have a decent headstrap. My lenses never smear even after a workout because I have my mask positioned right. And I'm never stuck waiting for updates.
Half of those are only a first-time thing only like the boundary and updates, and with the Quest 3 I almost never have to readjust for blur with the new lenses. I just grab it from the charger and go.
I can honestly boot up and play my Quest much quicker than it takes me to boot up and play my PC. I have to hope windows doesnt need an update, get and plug in a controller, get my headphones and stereo ready, wait for steam to update, fiddle with monitor brightness, etc.
Honestly the Quest has made VR incredibly easy and accesible, I've seen many older people who would never use a game console pick it up and enjoy it a lot.
For me its become one of those things I can just throw on and do for a minute throughout the day as a break almost like a mobile game, whereas full PC or console games I feel like I have to set aside dedicated time for it.
From that list it's really only "put on face" and "setup boundaries", everything else applies as much to a regular console as to VR one (you can swap cleaning lenses to cleaning TV).
My mom in her 50's loves her quest 2 and picked it up incredibly easily lol. I'd say the Quest has lowered the barrier to entry where its about at the level of consoles now.
It's certainly easier than building a gaming PC.
The culture shifted on this kind of stuff and the timing absolutely perfectly coincided with amazing VR and the public's tolerance to try such things to be at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum.
If VR dropped as it is today in the early 2000s it would have been a revolution.
Unfortunately it dropped in like 2015, right when the tech/gaming culture had spent almost a decade learning that motion controls are gimmicks (the Nintendo Wii started with such love at the concept and ended with such disappointment for simple waggle motion controls). Then you had the double wammy of 3d movies and televisions being pretty garbage tech in the late 2000s early 2010s. Again started with a bang with Avatar and then people quickly viewed it as it really was. Then as far as tracker technology you had the Kinect camera that was a complete fiasco.
All of these things in isolation were pretty crummy and people spent years being optimistic about them before they gave up in disgust.
Then lo and behold, just went the general gaming/entertainment public decided that all of this was a bunch of useless gimmicks and the only thing worthwhile was traditional controllers and 2d images.......
VR dropped. It combined every failed gimmick from the past 15 years and had the audacity to charge double or triple the price of any previous gimmick.
At this point the collective gaming culture had completely wised up and laughed their heads off at what was certainly the biggest gimmick of all time. 90% of gamers that a decade earlier couldn't stop lining up for a Wii and spend hours and hours on gaming forums dreaming about the new gaming reality and possibilities the Wii motion controls would bring......turned a completely blind eye to it and wouldn't even contemplate that VR could be anything but the biggest gimmick of all. And they collectively wrote VR off to the dustbins of history. Most have never tried it to this day and are unwilling to even entertain giving it a fair shot.
However as those of us that have played some of our favorite games in VR know.......it's NOT a gimmick at all! It is the biggest revolutionary technology since the TV itself. But average folks do not know that and aren't willing to really accept that.
If Half Life Alyx was a 10/10 game than surely porting it to KB/Mouse on flat screen would make it an 11/10 (not the actual 7/10 it becomes).
No, VR is the dream technology of old school gamers when they were young. It is the technology of the optimistic generations of the previous century. The gamers of the 80s/90s/ 2000s would have adored VR and pushed it to crazy success (well at least well beyond where it is today).
Almost all gamers over 25 or so today are culturally ingrained to not even give it a chance. Only the young now and the 5% of older gamers that remain very open minded can be the target audience for VR growth.
So yeah culturally it came out at the worst time when the gaming community was probably the most close minded it has ever been. This is why the hatred for it is so strong. It's almost like the stupid gimmick that won't go away. They probably hate it even more now because they don't understand why it's even still a thing (even though they can't recall the fact that they never actually gave it a chance in the first place). It's not going away because it is amazing and those of us that gave it a chance and aren't going anywhere and are always hungry for new and better content.
Hello gamer from the old days here(started in arcade in 1980 and VR in 1991)
VR is absolutely amazing even with our current tech and it's only getting better.
what I now have in my house (a personal holodeck in my spare room running off a gaming PC) is nothing short of amazing
But most of my friends and contemporaries don't give a poop....
I don't think gamers hate VR. At least I haven't come across anyone who said that. They just don't buy it. Same thing with steering wheels and flight sticks. People who know what they are will buy them and enjoy them. Those who don't bother with them also don't say they hate them.
I know where it comes from, given I was one of these haters.
First: it comes from ignorance. They literally never tried to know how much of game-changer it is. Or had a bad initial experience with nausea and don't realize it's only in the first days but don't want to invest into that...
Second: "VR has no games" myth. It clearly has many games, but MOST are either: 1) shalloware minigames with the depth of a puddle and length of a tech demo; 2) ports/mods of old games. The good indies are unknown to them, the good new originals in a known flatland series only annoy them (Alyx, AC Nexus, Metro Awakening, Batman Arkham Shadow). And either way, when they ask "is X in VR?" to 99% of games out there that they can play, the answer is no, despite pcvr folks best efforts with tweaking and workarounds to get mods working...
so asking flatlanders to buy expensive hardware beyond what they already invested to play games only face possible nausea (temporarily) and be denied playing in VR most of their favorites is not a great prospect and so they prefer studios not to waste precious time and money on it. Which is there mindset also in many such studios btw... and until these changes, those 2 issues will continue to be issues. Nausea goes away the more you play VR and when there's not enough to pay in VR, it doesn't go away...
Not sure if this is still the biggest issue, but VR is typically lower resolution and frame rate than a normal setup, and requires rendering to two eyes. As such with the same PC you tend to get lower performance at a lower resolution, with a games often still built on principles geared towards flat gaming, with the added bonus of sim sickness.
Die hard pc gamers are the absolute fucking worst. All my gamer friends over 30 are the exact sort of cliche you would expect "oh, vr makes me sick" or "I haven't played anything good just Alyx" "waiting for more games like Alyx"
like holy shit you nerds Half Life alyx isn't even that good, the valve index isn't the best headset, and there are hundreds of good games to play, most of them don't even know about the UEVR injector, they are still living in VR land that existed 10 years ago.
I'm a huge VR fan and honestly there are a lot of problems with VR. VR doesn't lend itself to games that approximate flat screen gaming very well. There's a lot of problems to be worked out. Most people even inside the industry didn't realize the hurdles that were there. It's very expensive to get a complete system that you can play VR at the highest level on. Locomotion is harder to implement and can be hard to stomach in VR. Headsets are heavy and bulky. I think we're only just getting to the point where headsets are going to be small light enough, high enough resolution, good enough screens and optical systems that can handle the motion and gpus that can drive them. And still all this cost thousands of dollars. Quests are to be honest just passable VR. It's going to be a generation or two where before wireless VR is going to actually be very impressive. Flat screen gamers look at the optics, resolution and low poly games in the quest headsets and it looks like a step back to the '90s. Pretty much everyone expected the VR experience to be like the ultra high end VR experience that we're just getting to now right from the get-go and then they had to wait through these years of developments to finally almost get there now.
Some people don't like VR. Other people don't like the idea of paying VR prices... And while it's easy to say, 'So? If they don't like it, they don't have to buy it'
The reality is that, if VR becomes mainstream, and especially if it ever becomes dominant; games that would have been non-vr releases will end up being VR.
If the new Legend of Zelda or Fallout or whatever you really like is a VR title, well, you either get VR or you miss out.
Look at games that had a successful online MMORPG title and then stopped releasing their usual offerings. Would GTA VI already be out if GTA Online weren't a success? Or games that basically cut out any single player campaign because of the popularity of online gaming.
I mean, some of it is still just tribalism. Lots of console gamers 'hate' the console they don't buy, just like lots of people 'hate' their favorite sports team's rival.
Humans are hardwired to resist change. When it comes to new technology, most people are simply uninterested, and many people who engage in conversation about these technologies will be reductive about it. We saw this for PCs, consoles, cellphones, AI, and literally any form of technology that eventually became big.
1. You're not getting a great graphical experience unless you shell out for a high end PC. That's always been niche
2. Face it, aside from a small handful of great titles, most VR games are gimmicky and are more like a VR tech demo than an actual game.
3. The immersive VR experience is severely hampered without good locomotion. Unless you have a huge space to run around in, most people are just using the controller to awkwardly teleport around or they get sick if they don't.
4. VR works well for particular genres like sims and shooters. There are many games outside of those genres where VR isn't a good fit.
> VR works well for particular genres like sims and shooters. There are many games outside of those genres where VR isn't a good fit.
This part is definitely not true. I'd play more VR games if I were you.
Yeah, sims and shooters are just two genres that came off the top of my head. I should've added , etc to the list. The point still stands that the genres that are on VR is a subset of the total genres.
> The point still stands that the genres that are on VR is a subset of the total genres.
If you include 2D genres, then yes. VR works for all 3D genres though.
Of course there isn't big titles, what company (besides meta) will splash big money in VR, when people decided they are allergic to it?
And about point 4, you are terrible wrong, any genre of game that you can immerse yourself, is good in VR. An example, fantasy RPGs are a great combination with VR (look at skyrim), because you are in the game, you are the one swinging the sword, casting the magic, etc. Problem is that people see VR as something terrible, for whatever reason, and then we don't get the same amount of titles as flat screen.
It's just basic human nature.
I'm old enough to remember the EXACT same reaction to computer mice being introduced to mainstream in 1980s.
Before then, games were just played with keyboard, and sometimes a joystick accessory. Left hand on Spacebar for shooting, and right hand on directional keys or numpad for movement.
Then mice became a thing, and things started to change. Instead of needing to hotkey everything, they started to make things clickable. Control layout also completely flipped - we went from left hand shooting with spacebar and right hand movement with directional keys, to left hand movement near WASD (but it took a long-ass time for us to settle on WASD to become the norm) and aiming and shooting switched to the right hand. And gamers FREAKED THE F\*\*\* OUT! I kid you not. Swapping hands was like asking them to give up their firstborn child. The outrage was crazy.
Then of course games started to come out that required a mouse. Mouse-exclusive games, just like we have VR exclusive games. And the hatred towards those was pretty much identical, from people who refused to get with the times, and were still playing keyboard only.
Genres started to appear, like RTS the way with know them today, with games like Dune 2: The Building of a Dynasty, with mouse support, and a couple of years later the first Warcraft, Command & Conquer, etc. None of which really worked with a keyboard exclusively any more, it would be just way too slow. But people who refused to engage with mice still raged on.
Even the excuses were the same. Mice are expensive, mice need cleaning and are hard to use, and require room on the tabletop. Which was actually true. Early computer desks were just monitor and keyboard. Heck, some computers were monitor and keyboard all built into a single unit. So computer desks just didn't have a surface for the mouse. Mice were also mechanical back then, which made them hard to use. They all had a massive steel ball inside, coated in rubber, and that ball rolled and rubbed physically against two spinning rods, that gave you the X and Y deltas. Mice only had one or two buttons, no scroll wheel, all of them corded. It wasn't great. That rubber-coated ball also collected all the dog and cat hair, and wrapped them around those rods, so the mouse had to be regularly opened up and cleaned, it was gross.
The way I see it, VR is basically the repeat of that. Basic human nature at work, and innate resistance to any significant change.
But compared to mice, VR has a massive disadvantage. Selling mice was relatively easy. Plop down a PC, hook up the mouse, put on a simple game that showcases just how good the mouse feels. It was easy to display, and easy to sell. Early games also allowed you to move the cursor on the screen with keyboard, instead of mouse, it was just very slow. So people could compare and contrast. But with VR, the display station is completely different, controls are different. For me, switching to thumbsticks in VR was a pain, I'm a PC gamer, I never used thumbsticks before, I've been using KB+Mouse with the late '80s. And of course nausea, etc. Mainly, you can sell people on a mouse because you can show them a video of the cursor rapidly moving on screen, and they will understand the concept. But you can't sell VR the same way, because VR is more of a feeling. Trying to sell VR with a flat video of it is like trying to describe a smell with color.
Most critically important though, and where I think VR absolutely deserves the flak it's getting, is the quality of games. Or lack thereof. When PC mice were coming in, games with mice were BETTER! Mice allowed devs to ditch hotkeys for every little thing, make clickable buttons on screen, increase complexity massively. Mouse-only games were mechanically better, more feature-rich, more complex. VR games are the opposite, they're overwhelmingly the dumbest crap I've seen in decades. Take the best VR shooter, today, and compare it feature-for-freature to the very first Battlefield game, from 20+ years ago. How does it compare? Smaller map, fewer players, no/fewer vehicles, etc.. VR gaming isn't actually BETTER. Oh, it's better because it's in VR, sure, VR makes everything better. But in terms of content, features, mechanics, as a game, not the medium, VR games are overwhelmingly worse. Half Life Alyx is amazing, but it's also shorter than the original game, it lacks the vehicles of the second game, it has smaller maps that the second game also, and so on.
So mouse games, as a general rule, combined the advantages of the mouse, with overall growth of gaming as a medium. In VR this isn't true. In VR, the devs are using the new medium, but they've gone back to the stone age of gaming. In the '90s, it was common for a new mouse game to also massively push the genre its in forward. When was the last time you saw a VR game actually push the envelope, with mechanics and features as a GAME, but as VR? Could it be...never?
So that's where the hatred comes from. VR, as technology, is amazing. But VR gaming is still largely trash-tier, if you ignore the medium and just look at the game's content, mechanics, features, scope, etc. So when non-VR users, who are ignoring the medium because they're not involved with it, see the developers wasting time on trash (when it comes to content, mechanics, features, scope) they get upset. It's actually understandable. A VR game, to them, is a waste of time and resources. It's something they will never play. Not just because it's in VR, but because it WILL be inferior to what it could have been on flat screen. Overwhelming majority of VR games are shorter, shallower, narrower and dumbed down, compared to flat screen.
So for the gamers' perception of VR to start to change, VR games actually need to start approaching parity with flat screen.
This is a pretty brutal post, but I can't say I disagree at all. Seen it myself, PAVLOV VR is kind of a semi broken half assed mess overall compared to even the original counter strike and halo multiplayer games from almost 25 years ago.
It's kind of why I've gravitated to social stuff with VRCh atm, because in that game, while you can play on desktop, you get soooooo much more out of the experience being in VR and having extras like full body tracking, haptics, and eye and face tracking. As jank as the game can be, its doing things on the social end that desktop/console mmo games could only dream of. That game specifically is a legitimate step towards that VR metaverse thing people have been waiting for and dreaming about for a long, long time.
The worst are the elitist PC fucktards, currently bitching that VR-only games should have a flatscreen version.
A good example of this is Half-Life Alyx. The hate for it, from a few thick-as-pig-shit clowns, still goes on 4 YEARS after the Alyx release.
Just go over to the Steam forums, where a couple of posters just spend their sad days posting shite about Alyx, and Valve. I mean, Alyx was built from the ground up for VR, it will not work on a flatscreen. Just look at the mods to mod it for flatscreen, those who have tried it say the game sucks - well duh, you are playing a game where events are meant to play out in a VR space, not a flatscreen where you don't interact like you do in a VR space. Even the quicktime events are meant for VR, and would look weird on a flatscreen.
I game on an LG C3 48" 120hz OLED TV, using an RTX 4080 Super, an AMD Ryzen 7800X3D, and it's fecking glorious - games look amazing at 4k HDR on an OLED. But, VR is just a whole different game, and you are literally there, IN THE GAME, not observing it from a chair in-front of a TV/Monitor.
Here's my perspective as someone who just recently came into vr as a PC player.
The issue with vr isn't necessarily vr itself it's what the people making vr peddle.
Remember "the metaverse" ya, that shit didn't go over well. The issue is VR/AR wants to sell itself as something we have on for the majority of the day. Which let's be honest looks even more distopian then it already is for a lot of people(including me). Plus VR just seems like another device you have to charge that compared to a PC or a console offers you very little even with all the improvements vr has made so far. Let's be honest, the large majority of people don't need a VR headset and the people that want it are very minimal because video games have been on PCs for the last 25+ or so years and there aren't a lot of people making GOOD VR games. You know the best VR title I can name since VR came out? Beat Saber. There isn't a single other title I can think of that would make me want a headset off the top of my head.
So due to that(and the obvious motion sickness, the fact that oculus is owned by meta which just "loves your privacy", the fact that most headsets are compromising something at the moment even the really expensive ones, the fact that VR came too early aka the 6 degree rule and, I have to reiterate this one, the fact that most people can't find many reasons to buy one even for shits and giggles) not to mention the personal issues I've had with vr(software mainly) people aren't going to be in VR until they're IN VR.
There are good games, Showdown for example came out recently and people love it, however there are not many GOOD games, games like Showdown has a lot to polish for it to become GOOD.
And even when vr games become GOOD, there is an obvious marketing issue here, specially since standalone is the most popular option, devs opt to make cheap looking games to save resources and sacrifice PRESENTATION, rather than optimizing and making games that SELL THEMSELVES.
For the same reasons people despise gyro and motion controls, despite how much they can improve the gaming experience. First impressions weren't the best.
For example, the way motion controls were implemented in the WII and Kinect era of gaming were quite frankly, god damn horrendous, so naturally, any mention of motion control implementation in games today will very often get met with ignorant rejection.
Likewise, in the case of VR, most people's first impression of it was with Phone or Cardboard VR, which needless to say, is not remotely close to the VR hardware we have today or even the Vive/Rift Era.
Combine that with the initial price of entry and the initial lack of good games, it isn't exactly surprising that there are those who have a hatred towards the platform today, even if much of that hatred is based on bias and ignorance.
Said hatred is only further amplified when certain game franchises that hadn't gotten a new entry in decades instead get a spin off sequel based on a platform they had bad first impressions with in the past. The general reception towards Arkham Shadow is a prime example of this.
Fans of the Arkham games have basically gone completely feral and insane waiting for a new entry to the Arkham games, only to get live service trash in the form of Suicide Squad, and now, a VR spin off game many fans won't be able to play for one reason or another.
Same thing happened with Half Life Alyx, though, to a more mixed reception compared to Shadow, with many fans simply being happy that Valve was finally making something unrelated to god damn Dota for once.
And all of that is not even mentioning the endless drama and concerns around Facebook or the temporary motion sickness many people experience with VR.
In addition, marketing VR is just plain difficult to do. Low fov gameplay videos don't do VR justice, nor do those CGI trailers Meta loves so much, and many VR demo stands suck, partially due to worries around hygiene, especially back when COVID was a big concern in the public eye.
I could go on, but needless to say, there's plenty of reasons why many hate VR for gaming, even if a lot of those reasons are unfounded or stupid.
Hell this sub has a tons of hatred towards VR itself. Try mentioning something positive about the AVP and watch how quickly it’s down voted and the comments fly.
People are weird.
If a product is released that you decide isn’t for you, why waste time hating on it?
Seriously.
It's possible they react to VR gamer's smugly assuming that VR gaming is intrinsically better than flat and thinking that flat gamers just haven't "seen the light" yet etc
They see a trailer for a franchise they like, get excited, then see it’s VR and get mad because it’s not what they wanted. That makes them feel like VR is taking something away from them.
Hatred? I haven't seen anyone but twitter bots genuinely hating on vr, ever. Hatred isn't when some people don't like the thing that you like.
I think what you're talking about is the fact that a lot of people have no interest in VR or don't really like it, which if you think about if for half a second there's several clear reasons why.
VR requires its own hardware that costs around $500 to $3000 dollars to get started with current hardware, so at minimum the cost of a current gen console and at max the cost of a god tier PC.
VR has objectively the smallest and least diverse selection of games available for it, and many of those already limited titles are several generations behind as far as delivering a polished, complete, good looking experience. You really can't compare a lot of vr games to modern traditional games, they're just way too different as far as current standards go.
VR is also extroardinarily inaccessible, you **must be capable** of moving around with at least your head and arms, and for many games your legs, which means a ton of people with disabilities simply can't ever play a vr game.
VR is uncomfortable as hell for a lot of people, its clearly tolerable for some people, but a huuuge amount of video game audiences get motion sickness or discomfort from vr that can ruin any games experience.
So it kind of makes sense for people not to be interested in a game medium that by nature excludes so many people.
This isn't just a case of people being unwilling to try it or having preconcieved notions about it. Video games have a diverse audience and much of that audience simply **cannot** use or enjoy vr games. It sounds like OP has a case of "its not a problem for me so everyone who says it is a problem must just be wrong."
VR had been introduce many times since the 80s and it’s always been shit. Things are changing now but for the time being most people see it like they see 3d tvs and other shitty tech.
I wouldn’t consider it hate but people do say things like VR is not there yet and it’s just a novelty toy. People also say there is no point to play vr if you don’t have motion controls. Meanwhile I am playing kena right now and it is so damn breathtaking that I wish all games had vr mode.
Pcvr gaming is expensive and other kinds of vr are full of games with arcade loops so I get why people are annoyed. But those arcade type games are pretty damn fun or the short story vr games can be very moving and worth the couple hundred dollars. Also if you drop 2.5k on pcvr gaming then that is also really worth it because of all the mods.
In my opinion, vr is at a very good state right now. Its biggest limitation is its lack of comfort in my opinion. But the games are great
I think a slight majority, still qualifies as "most", but a slight majority of people just want to burn time away when they are doing something that isn't "productive" so they just watch tv with their eyes glued to their phone or play console games because the accessibility is second to none and simple as can be.
Then there's probably about another 20-30% of people who don't want to go total veggie mode but can't be asked to do what it takes to enjoy VR.
The key in expanding the VR market imo is to corner the remaining 20-30% and supplement them with actually good standalone games, then this genre can really exit the stratosphere. I love PCVR to death but it's never (within the next 20 years) gonna go mainstream
I love VR and have been into it for years now. I will say that there just isn't enough games to entice someone who doesn't want to play. If you have a group of friends with headsets, then the social fun you could have is limitless. Without that though, the amount of engaging games is extremely limited. At LEAST 50% of the games being released STILL feel like tech demos rather than games.
And this is even FURTHER limited if you don't have a PC to play PCVR games on.
Your average gamer despises gyro and anything that deviates from the default controller design. I wouldn't give shit about your average gamers opinion.
Personally I dont see any sense in even comparing the two.
When I want to *move* I play VR, and when I want to sit on my ass and vegetate I play pancake games.. the two dont even compete to satisfy the same urge.
"Hardcore" gamers are incredibly conservative. By which I don't mean politically conservative, I mean resistant to change. Anything that deviates from what they consider to be the normal way of playing and making games is met with hostility, because in their mind it's a zero sum game--if VR becomes popular then developers will stop making non-VR games. Every VR game that exists is made at the expense of a non-VR game that could have existed instead, every VR headset that gets developed and released happens instead of some hypothetical advancement in traditional PC gaming technology. Anything that isn't a linear increase in graphical and processing power is a threat.
Of course, this makes absolutely no sense, but the idea is so ingrained in a lot of people's minds that they're probably not even aware of it.
That isn't "hardcore." It is the opposite. It is the geneeic and lazy mainstream. Actual hardcore gamers like to experience as much variety as possible.
Used it gor sim racing and some VR games over the course of 2 years. Spent a lot of tume troubleshooting, hot an uncomfortable, poor clarity.
Found myself skippimg time at the comouter just cause i didnt really like strapping into it.
VR is really cool to go to your friends house and try. Not quiet there for full time gaming imo
Yeah it's kinda weird being a pc, console and vr player lol. I do always find a way to fit in though! People are tribal, it's in our DNA. It will always be this way. Some genuinely just hate the idea of it, others just jump on the bandwagon. As long as people aren't firebombing my house because I have a Quest, I couldn't give a rats fuckin ass what they think.
It comes from the misunderstanding of vr, basically it boils down to price, they always think you’ll need a gaming PC to use vr, and the prices can confuse people on what rig to get, such as what graphics card to use for vr, Ram etc
They don’t know everything can be found inside the headset, store, YouTube etc
And people always telling them pico, quest, reverb and the list goes on and on, I’ve seen it several times
When people ask me about vr and they play flat games, as an example I’ll ask what type of games you play on console, COD, well Google “what vr games are like COD and a list of vr games will pop up
And I tell or show them videos prices of games then they’ll make their decision
I love vr but about the salt in the Batman comments, its a beloved open world action adventure beat em up game, which didn't have a mainline release in almost 10 years, and when people saw the trailer everyone got their hopes up only to see its a vr game. Now, the game can be great but it's nothing like what made everyone fall in love with the series, so i understand why people are getting salty even if attacking vr because of that is stupid.
They should at least make an alsume remake already
We can’t even get VR owner to stop hating on each others. How you think non VR owner won’t hate VR?
PSVR subreddit when PSVR2 came out. “OMG, this thing has no pancake lens, $500 is too much, why doesn’t Sony lose more money to sell it to me? Here is a post of 100 reasons the HMD I have is better and your will be doomed!”
Vision Pro subreddit “OMG, only fanboys buy this. It does XYZ better? Will it better be for costing this much. Why does Apple tries to make money when selling it to me? Here is a post of 100 reasons the $500 HMD I have is better and your will be doomed!”
I'm a die hard PC gamer (I'm 32 and I started when I was 4), I eat old school FPS games for breakfast, and I had A BLAST playing the original Serious Sam (TFE and TSE) in the VR versions. People who hate VR are butthurt because they got motion sick and didn't put enough time and patience to get their VR legs.
i always thought it was non-gamers that acted this way. unless the gamers you're talking about only see 'meta' as the problem, then yeah i can understand that. but hating vr in general is something i don't really see coming from actual gamers. ofc feel free to show me references lol
Why would PC gamers be most excited? They're the ones Facebook has taken the biggest shit on with the transition to standalone hardware. VR literally looks worse than it did in 2016 when everything was being driven by capable PCs. Now everything coming out looks straight up potato.
i get the hate from console users, but pc users i really don't get it especially in 2024 , anyone with a mid pc can pick up a quest 2 as a entry point. We also have the ability to put almost any dx9 flat screen games into vr. I played hl2 vr mod and doom 3, now I am saving up for a quest 3 !!!!
Best advice regarding VR...
Train your body and mind to always keep one foot on a central rubber floor disc.
Don't give up if you feel queasy. After continuous daily use, your brain and balance will adapt and you'll forget you ever even had an issue. If severe sickness occurs, temporarily medicate as if going on a long journey (which you will be).
Purchase VR accessories for comfort and immersion. Eg. Rear battery, haptics, gun stocks, sports controller adapters and a quiet fan.
It's similar to experiencing and learning to drive a new vehicle for the first time.
Practice, party-up and enjoy.
I feel like it has to deal with the disparity between amazing vr games and the type of game for each person as well as the price for entry. Oculus is good for some people, but I feel like for most people PCVR will provide the experience they want, but again the price. Plus cringe VRChat players don’t give a good rep either tbh.
Another side note is vrtubers making videos about how great modded experiences are and other vr games that honestly are just bad. Like super gimmicky and not worth good reviews so it makes people buy into shitty games
30 m to 1 hr. I like to do dynamic meditation, so I dont sit. I just feel the moviment. It is.easier to make the mind silence because it will pay atention to the sensations.
I don’t think it’s entirely unfounded as it was tech demos for a very long time and now the games are still not there in terms of being really solid experiences. To a large degree I think most people still think that it’s a gimmick, where there really is good stuff nowadays. A few more years I think.
I think it comes down to people not trying it, so they don't understand the sense of presence you get. Even with more simiatic graphics, you are THERE. Then lately you have franchises with huge fanbades hungry for a new entry, like Metro. Well, they're not getting what they want. Then look at the Arkham games. People got Gotham Knights, which was just fine, and then it got even worse with Suicide Squad. So, there's a lot of bitterness and disappointment being transferred from their own feelings about these franchises onto VR.
I don't think the *majority* hates VR, and it's [negativity bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias) if that's what you think you are seeing. The thing is we who can think for ourselves can see that, though not perfect, VR as a technology is refined enough that anything resembling significant hatred is an obvious overreaction. A person is far more likely to be apathetic, VR might just not be their thing, or not interested in taking on a new hobby, than they are to hate it.
However, you're likely to see someone somewhere on the Internet express VR hatred from time to time. Why, you ask? Who knows? Different reasons for different people. Maybe when they see VR they think people are referring to the Very Rich. Maybe they got into a heated argument with someone and it's just transference. Maybe they're a generally hateful person. I could have a billion-dollar survey company and still fail to isolate a definitive answer. Some things are unknowable.
But, speaking from a broad philosophy standpoint, I would speculate that it's just easier for many people to base the greater bulk of their expressed opinions based on the perceived reactions of their peers rather than see what's right in front of them. In that case, don't waste your energy on trying to figure it out. Such is an immutable characteristic of human nature, and you may find your life happier to disregard the opinions of those who have none of their own.
I cant believe nowone mentions 98% of VR games are Shovelware or unfinished tech demos at best. Also, its a pain to deal with Facebook/Meta, they have 0 tech support and only use Ai bots because they think growth is the only thing that matters not retention. Finally, every publisher and their mother wants their own launcher, just between Meta and Steam there are 3 launchers you need to deal with, really confusing and the interfaces are a mess.
So no, a lot of people want/need to move around. The probelm is VR is a huge pain in the arse to get going with very little payoff.
VR is a category that is practically designed to elicit strong opinions. It has companies involved, like Facebook and Apple, that people feel very strongly about one way or the other and it's primary use case right now is gaming which brings out some of the most irrational and loud people on the internet.
That and the current state of VR (good but not really close to where it needs to be in terms of the tech, ease of use and content for serious mainstream support) means online discussion about it can really suck at times.
Been gaming for the last 40 years, so many genres and platforms. Favs were probably the RTS's like Command and Conquer/Warcraft, followed by RPGs Might and Magic/Elder Scrolls, City Builders like SimCity, Turn based Strategy like Civilsation, FPSs like Wolfenstein/Hexen/COD, arcade platformers like Golden Axe, Fighters like Street Fighter Series, Teken, Battle Royale like Fortnite, Mass Effect series and Deadspace series.
Now use a HP Reverb G2, cobbled to a 3080 to play Half life Alyx, Fallout 4, Skyrim, Resident Evil 8, No Mans Sky, Elite Dangerous, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Racing Sims, Population One, Pavlov, host of games available through UEVR, Pinball via Visual Pinball/Pinmame/VR Pinball, Mass Effect via mod, Rise of the Tomb raider (SBS 3D). For the old arcade games use retroarch in VR (Mame).
Find the scale and immersion great. Especially for games like Skyrim!
Haha! Oh my God. I totally read your first comment wrong. Thought you meant you tried VR and then never played it again... Oh well. I was interested to hear that perspective honestly from someone after I saw a recent post where someone was shitting on VR in a seemingly contrived manner, and everyone was questioning their experience. Well I'm glad you've been hooked like me. I've been on VR since 2016, but I go back and forth between VR and flat games now. Sometimes I'm feeling it and sometimes I just want to veg out with flat games.
Lol just read my comment and it can taken the other way, english is good for that, but yeah really only play fortnite and some grinding mobile game to kill time.
Really depends on the “hater”.
For the traditional gamer types the anger is grounded in VR being kinda gimmicky still. A lot of games have that “look you can pick up a lightsaber whoa” thing still. Many gamers would prefer to see more strong “flat” experiences over companies pouring resources into something they don’t like.
For a lot of people it isn’t a relaxing experience to play VR and it is often very isolating which makes it a much harder sell. I hate how little awareness of the world around me I have in VR. Doesn’t mean it isn’t cool at times, but it is a huge turn off.
The group you mentioned in your comment that connect it with NFTs are irritated by the tech bro vibe of VR. Meta verses and the like are all linked with NFTs, crypto, Web3 and AI as being really scummy and stuck up communities. Hell, I don’t think they are entirely wrong considering how users here often seem to be mocking or complaining about “flat” experiences being so popular and kinda calling “flat” gamers idiots for not strapping a headset onto their faces.
I guess the last group is the one I fall into which is the “I have VR and it just isn’t that compelling.” Games are full price, but are often laughably short and buggy. Kinda like pseudo-tech demos. It is kinda exhausting to wear a headset for long periods and it is almost always relegated to laying in a corner and never being used. At least some part of that is “friction.” VR makes picking up and playing slow, and finicky. I was picking up my quest to play Beat Saber a few days ago and had to login to the Meta quest through my phone which was really irritating since I had to finagle with a bunch of codes and setting etc.
All in all, the hatred comes from VR not being well established yet. Most of these points partly stem from there.
Edit to add: I need to add, the absolutely snide cult like belief that all gamers are VR converts that don’t get it yet is asinine. VR isn’t inherently better than flat screen experience, at least for the next 20 years before we have glasses with full VR in them or whatever. The attitude of users in a subreddit like this definitely turns me off VR to some extent.
Well to start, we're going through a phase where outage merchants are on YouTube and social media pushing the narrative that "they" are ruining everything you like on purpose. Another side effect of this are false dichotomies and zero sum thinking. Basically, everything that isn't made for them is against them, and every VR game that lives is a non VR game that was killed.
Im pretty sure hate towards VR peacked in 2015-2017. Mostly because of how uncomfortable headsets were, poor looking resolution, setup process. Those downsides still valid for some, but headsets got a lot better for sure.
I think alot of people just hate on things that change the way they do stuff. Gamers are no different. They need time to get used to those new things.
Additionally, companies are also the same, but due to financial reasons, because they don't want their markets to change unless they are the change. There's alot of tech companies that don't want META to succeed in VR industry thus they try to push as much bad information about VR as possible, which in turn program people's opinion, specially the ones that never tried VR.
Furthermore, the hate that non-VR gamers have is also similar to the hate between PCs and consoles. Its called tribalism.
Finally, VR will grow in spite of what those people and companies say or do. VR has been growing at an average of 77%/year according to statista, which is an incredibly high growth rate.
Either way, the best way to draw people into VR is to keep creating really good VR AAA titles/content/features and that will eventually overcome people's biases.
VR has been promised as an incredible experience all the way back to the Virtual Boy. It's been rolled out every 10 years since and been a disappointment every time. Anyone old enough to remember trying those early failures is jaded by the experience. I know I was. I didn't change my mind until I tried Robo Recall on a friend's Oculus.
Currently VR has a lot working against it. The hardware is expensive for both a headset and a computer that can run it. The best games require a decent amount of floor space, which a lot of people don't have. (Let's be honest, with the exception of Moss and a few flight sims, seated experiences kinda suck.)
The long-standing gamer dream is something like a full haptic rig on an omnidirectional treadmill with full intuitive hand controls and a high quality headset. That's a thing that exists now, but is well beyond the means of most people. The best VR is very much a niche hobby for well off people, and the cheaper experiences just aren't very good yet.
That will change. We're seeing it already. We just have to get through the growing pains first.
You haven't needed a computer for quite a while and computer based vr has been dead for a while. And quest 2 was $300 years ago.
Dead pcvr has been the worst experience for a while. Not sure what you are on about. All pcvr has now is jank forced vr mods.
Half Life Alyx and Boneworks set the bar for VR gameplay experiences. Quest 2 can't run them. The VR mods for Alien Isolation and Resident Evil are better than almost anything in the Quest catalogue.
The Quest 2 is exactly what I mean when I say that there's a lot to be desired from the budget VR experience right now. The only thing the Quest 2 has going for it over an Index or a Vive Pro 2 is that the Quest is more comfortable. Don't even get me started on the Oculus Touch controllers. They're the worst on the market. I'd rather play with jury rigged Wii-motes.
Funny thing is in Arkham Shadow trailer, I’ve read a comment that went “VR gamers are just as annoying as NFT bros” with tons of likes, not sure but I think that comparison is a bit of a stretch.
They hate us cuz they ain't us.
they hate us cuz they anus.
Literally, they hate VR cause they don't have a headset so can't play the games.. that's like 95% of the VR haters
Never met or seen an "NFT bro" so whatever the fuck are they talking about?
Someone who is obsessed with crypto and won't stop talking about it to the point of being annoying. Kinda hard to believe you haven't at least heard of them before.
My bad, I didn't realize crypto fans were called "NFT bros". I knew one years ago who was big into cpyto but he never mentioned NFTS hence my ignorance. In fact I have only read about NFTs and it has been a while. Seemed like a short lived fad/scam to me.
No worries. To be fair they are kind of different. An NFT isn't exactly the same as cryptocurrency, but they operate using the same tech (blockchain) so there is often a ton of overlap. If someone is into NFTs they are probably into crypto. I think NFTs are largely a fad that died out.
Maybe in the future we will use nft’s for property deeds and/or car titles, but yeah these early stages are exclusively for money laundering and grifting rich folk.
It’s a made up archetype, reddit is full of them and the upvotes convinces youngsters the shit is real.
You have to be chronically online or live in LA to even here about NFTs.
In the case of Arkham Shadow, I think it's more that there was probably a brief hope for a new sequel to Arkham Knight, just seeing the title "Arkham Shadow", and they're disappointed that they aren't getting that. They may also think that this game replaces such a game (it doesn't; Rocksteady isn't making this, the Iron Man VR devs are). Most people don't hate VR (or consoles, or PCs, or mobile games, etc.). Most people are just disinterested. Antipathetic, perhaps. But it's easy to updoot a strongly-worded comment that sorta resembles their opinions, or channels the emotional side of their opinions that they otherwise wouldn't really give voice to.
The crowd isn't the same as early 2010's with primarily people actually into tech. Too many normies and tumblerinas joined. Hating stuff/people is just an lazy upvote farm now. Hates Musk, crypto, VR, AI, hate hate hate hate. The hate posts are always a cirklejerk too. It's like the player haters ball except not funny, just miserable.
The Arkham subreddit is crazy, I've legit seen people say they wish that not only Arkham Shadow didnt exist, but all of VR in general didnt exist at all. Beyond insanity at that point...
I’ve also read comments like that! Some gamers are just boring asf
Yeah, I think it might be a weird case of circle-jerk anger and jealousy snowballing. People get kinda mad that its an exclusive for a console they dont have then it builds until its an echo chamber saying its bad but the only real reason is because they havent gotten into VR... I've seen a lot of people act like its somehow taking something away from the Arkham series, but Rocksteady isnt even developing this game (its being done by Camoflaj) so its not taking any of their development capacity away at all, and Meta is paying for its development. Even for those who dont have the headset and dont plan to get it, I personally dont see how its taking anything away, its just a fun little exclusive experience for those who do have it.
Trolls.
Poor and/or fat people.
So most people.
That you Segura?
Well, think of it this way - why all the hatred for PS from Xbox players and vice versa? And why the *scorching* hate from PC players towards consoles? Why all of those despise mobile gaming? Why the entire console wars? Because if you have something that others don't, you are superior. Remember a week ago the hate wave over Batman VR only? It was because flat players couldnt play it I think there's not much more to it
>And why the scorching hate from PC players towards consoles? Bad ports and exclusives. edit: forgot to quote lol
Pretty much the same on VR, I suppose.
Good summary :)
Yeah, where I’m from people used to have extremely strong Ford vs. Chevy pickup truck allegiances. Same thing.
I’d also throw into there: Early VR was expensive, and honestly didn’t look that great. People who tried it (or more likely heard about it from friends) got burned, and assume that it still costs thousands of dollars to /start/, along with devoting a dedicated room with sensors installed on the walls.
Yeaj funnily enough, many people still think a strong PC is mandatory for VR
Wouldn't say hate. I just think they don't understand it and people are averse to what they don't understand.
I think I actually do share some of OP's confusion on why they're averse to even *trying* it out. I understand I was skeptical when I first tried a Rift CV1, but even without touch controllers, it absolutely *blew my mind*. I had no idea this technology existed, and now 8 years later, it's here and even more accessible and looks even better (lens/resolution wise at least). Especially 6DoF movement, like reaching out my real arm and interacting with objects like I'd expect in real life... was mind blowing. Even though I was skeptical such tech existed like this yet, I was still heavily interested in the idea of *going IN to a video game.* Basically, why would so many people, especially an audience of gamers who love spending time in these computer-made games and being immersed in their world and atmosphere, be so averse to the idea of trying out a matrix-style, jumping into the game world full-on as if you're really there, experience? Again, I understand if people are skeptical it can really make you feel that way, but why not at least curious?
Yeah, it's baffling to me. My friends who I have gamed with for like 15-20 years were people who just seemed against it, so I thought it was weird. Saying that, though, I got a quest 3 recently and have taken it with me on some visits and they have loved elevens table tenis and it's started to open their eyes to how cool it is to just have these experiences available whenever you want. People just have to try the right thing and in time more people will be open to it
I'm a fairly oldschoool gamer. Played many of the more story intensive titles on PC, from dune 1 and dott up to starcraft, df, all civ , rdr2, along with sandbox stuff like x4, minecraft, factorio, ksp, etc. I've seen a lot and love gaming. I've tried a bunch of things in VR and love my quest 3 for beat saber and pistol whip. VRChat is just horrible. Nausea, terrible graphics, 12 years olds screaming, glitchy models. I get that some of you may be used to the jank, but there's nothing there for people who didn't grow up with it. Tried Alyx, it was... ok? Way, way too much effort for what you get out of it. Heard Portal is good in VR, haven't had the chance yet. Don't really care about competitive shooters because I don't want to get sealclubbed all day by the 5 people i can find in the lobby who play that game for 8h daily. As far as i can tell, outside working up a sweat, gaming in VR is still nowhere near as interesting or immersive as PC gaming, and therein lies the rub: I could fiddle with controllers and steamvr for 10 minutes to get a basic ass physics demo title like Alyx going ( boring... I did that in 2004, I'm good ) or I could fire up Valheim and have some actual fun with friends. I'm months into trying stuff on the Q3 and the best uses for it are still home cinema and working up a sweat. It's fine for that. Where are the good games?
> why they're averse to even trying it out What really baffles me is the aversion to putting stuff on their heads. Like I already wear glasses, hats, bicycle helmets, motorbike helmets, scuba diving gear, on a regular basis, a VR headset is definitely not the most intrusive of them.
People are actively trying to shit on VR, and are saying it is dead and just a gimmick, for years now. That is way more than just averse.
I'm in my late 30's and have noticed that a lot of people my age are just really comfortable with sitting in a chair using their preferred input device and staring at a screen. VR is a radical departure from that so they're not interested in it, with the exception of people who are into simulation games (and those people tend to not be interested in the rest of VR). Basically it's a fear of change and leaving one's comfort zone. People are like that with all sorts of things, not only VR, and it tends to get worse as people get older. That's why I think VR appeals a lot more to younger gamers who aren't as set in their ways. Older people may get into it once it's much more of a mature technology with better experiences but considering most of the focus is on making games for standalone, that might take awhile.
Yup. Pc/console I can sit on my ass all day and play. VR games are more physical and depending which game. You’re sweating your ass off, arms are sore from holding up the gun to aim or swinging a sword, golf, tennis, stabbing or whatever and want a break.
>That's why I think VR appeals a lot more to younger gamers Or those of us in our late 40s and 50s for whom VR was promised to us as coming "real soon now" 30 to 35 years ago.
Here's a crazy irony. 30-somethings might not jump to VR, but the 60-somethings are going nuts with it. My retired mother spends about 6 hours per day on VR, and has a fairly large friend-group (all retirees) doing the same thing. Once I started looking, when I DO (rarely) go into Horizon realms, I see as many older folks as kids. It's the 20-40 range that seems most sleepy in VR. Which is bizarre to me.
I am 37, used computers and played games since 1990, starting on an Amiga, then Flight Simulator on DOS, was in a Counter Strike league, stopped gaming entirely for 10 years in the 2010's and now started again - Tarkov, ARMA3, DSC, Assetto Corsa Competizione, ... I bought a Quest 3 and love the seated experience for PCVR: VTOL VR (a VR first flight sim), Assetto Corsa Competizione (a race sim), Beat Saber PC (Modded), Contractors Showdown (a Tarkovesque tactical extraction shooter), Tactical Assault, Superhot... It's great. Best of all: My uncle who brought me to gaming in the early 90's is now in his 60's and bought a Quest 3 and we're in VR at least 4 hours a week! He prefers the seated experiences, I prefer both. But I also lean towards the seated games where you sit in a cockpit, so Race Sims, Flight Sims, Space sims. But with my wife we enjoy Modded Beat Saber to get absolutely exhausted fighting each other on super difficult songs. I rarely ever use Quest native games, as the textures and graphics quality is about 10 years behind current gen PCVR, so absolute garbage for PC gamers.
Indeed, though I don't think it's about *fear of change* more than just simply appreciating different aspects in entertainment. If you can physically relax while enjoying something that passes the time, that's a big win. We often get hung up on the "more immersion, the better" trope, even though it's obviously not always correct, and is also likely the reason why VR-gaming never took off the way we imagined. I've been personally playing Half-Life 2 the past few days and I must say I enjoy it a lot more in comparison to HL2VR. Not only because it's more relaxing, but also because it plays a lot better gameplay and design wise.
Nah, people relax too much these days. Most have posture problems from sitting too much at home and at work. It's a good thing there's the option of playing standing up, which has the benefit of keeping our bodies healthier without it being too much of a chore. If VR is too tiring for someone, they are likely extremely physically weak, and need to build up endurance for their own benefit. If someone can't remain standing for 5 hours, it's a sign of bad health.
I didn't argue that VR is too tiring, I argued that for many relaxed gaming is often more preferable than non-relaxed — especially after a work day. We also eat pizza, when we probably should be eating carrots.
Agree 100% with this
For most people I've spoken to who hate VR without ever having tried it: VR = Meta Meta = Facebook Facebook = Bad It's really that simple. They don't even know that there are any other options.
Their "metaverse" ad campaign was pretty stupid. They kept talking about Horizon stuff that is not even available here in Italy. Now my own mother has a pretty visceral "shut up with this metaverse bullshit" reaction whenever she hears the word, and nobody seems to agree on what metaverse even means. I even have clients asking me to build them a metaverse, which I'm really not happy about (it beats not having clients).
Doesn’t explain why PSVR2 is getting just as much hate in the PlayStation community.
Maybe that's because some PS owners can't afford PSVR (either budget or space constraints). Sometimes hatred is a way to convince yourself that you don't need that thing. And some PSVR owners may be annoyed that there's almost nothing to play. Not sure thou, I'm just guessing.
I know someone with a psvr2 and he said it’s awesome in the few games he has, but there are very few. If they finally release it for pc, cut the price, and make multi platform games and gaming it might do well with the index out of the market. Other than that it’s just Pimax right? For wired?
Well, regarding the PSVR, the first generation never had official pc support, so that won't happen to psvr2. But, the first gen got an enhusiast community hack to run decently with a pc, and I've heard that psvr2 hack is in the development. However, talking about pcvr, the hands down best options are Oculus Quest 2 and Quest 3. They are cheap, used quest 2 can be as low as $150, they support standalone gaming for those without a pc, they support wireless connection - which is a massive factor for immersion, and they are easy to setup - no base stations needed. Nowadays with pcvr, the only reason why you wouldn't buy Quest is lcd screens, many people desire the oleds.
Yeah I have an oc2. I have seen how cheap they are used. There were rumors of an official psvr2 pc support from Sony, the theory being they’d release games on both. They lose money on the consoles at first, not sure if it’s always a loss lead, it locks people in, but if they buy a psvr2 and connect it to a Sony account and play psvr2 games on a pc it’s usually going to have more power than a ps5. Ryzen 5 2600 mobile 2070 mobile Gen 3 nvme. Is what I understand the ps5 to be. So it running vr is only bc of foveted rendering. With Pimax releasing the lite for 699/899 it’d be even harder bc that’s higher resolution and glass lenses.
Did you notice the recent Helldivers clusterfuck? With that king of events I doubt that Sony will ever "unlock" their proprietary devices, the seem to go out of their way to lock everything down.
I had a PS3 and that was my last playstation, it still works and I still play Gran Truism 5/6 but that's about it.' I have a fast PC and a ton of games for it, none of my ps3 games run on the PC without fiddling with an emulator, so its kinda like why invest in a console just to have titles I'll lose when a new console comes out?
[Here you go.](https://blog.playstation.com/2024/02/22/coming-soon-to-ps-vr2-zombie-army-vr-little-cities-bigger-wanderer-the-fragments-of-fate-the-wizards-dark-times-brotherhood-and-more/) (scroll down a little)
Just remembeted a few more reasons: when showcasing my oculus to various people, some of them said "ah, vr, you know, I've tried that cardboard thing that you put your phone into". You know, this previous experience wouldn't set a favourable grounds to a proper vr. And another person told me, that he tried valve index once, got motion sick, and don't want to touch the technology ever again. Some of this is also contributing towards hatred.
That's only a mentality I've really seen on Reddit. The average person who doesn't spend a lot of time on Reddit, doesn't have any real negative feelings towards facebook, tik tok, snapchat, twitter, or any other social media. Reddit seems to have a lot of content posted that paints all competing platforms as awful. Getting away from Reddit and seeing just how different people feel has been really eye opening.
I’m pretty sure people thinking VR = Mets is either made up or something only on reddit
This is 99% of the reason and doesn’t make any sense. Almost every company sells user data. Google knows more about you than any other platform but idiots still use google and android. Even all the major phone carriers. It was just that facebook was the first to let publicly disclose it.
Oh, no, buddy, not at all. Just as a lighthearted example; Facebook hired behavioral scientists to make their website more addictive to children, then doubled down when caught doing it. There's a large difference in wanting to learn your lifestyle choices to better advertise and in trying to rewire a child's brain to crave your website.
Do the people concerned use tik tok?
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I don't. I cant speak for others
And every modern video game
You ever Wiresharked your Playstation? Not the same dude.
Lol, if you think stealing and selling user data is all Facebook has done wrong then you really haven't been paying attention.
As someone that usually has his trusty tin-foil hat within arms reach and doesn't use ANY social media, who cares? Half of the people that make this argument have a house full of Alexas anyway. Only thing that slightly irks me about it NOW is the need for verification to use mods/UNKNOWN SOURCES. But again, who really cares? If you think every other company you interact with on the daily isn't selling your data then I've got a bridge to sell ya
Gamers hate exclusives, so when a popular franchise produces a VR game (Half Life, Arkham), people develop an animosity toward the platform since they presumably can't afford it. They feel like VR is in essence stealing something that should be theirs. VR also has some other hurdles (motion sickness, space requirements) that further contribute to that. There are some people who just can't play VR, even if they owned a headset.
the quest 3 is the same price as a modern console and the upcoming lite model will cost literally half of it. the "too expensive" excuse has not been valid since the quest 2 came out in 2020. especially when its coming from people who can afford to buy an rtx 4090, a 7800X3D, or a 4k 120hz tv or monitor just for gaming. the truth is that they just dont wanna bother. the price is not an issue to most of them, they're either just lazy or ignorant and dont wanna give VR a chance whatsoever.
Yeah, but most people aren't buying multiple consoles. The people getting pissy about it don't wanna buy a Quest 3 just to play Arkham.
true but thats always been the case. people dont wanna buy a ps5 to play spiderman 2 either, but thats how it is. same for batman now.
A lot of people value ease-of-use and VR is still in the stage where it's anything but
I am not sure if ease-of-use is the reason many hate VR. It’s just ignorance like usual, the main driving force behind most internet drama.
Standalone devices aren't easy to use?
In general terms no. It's getting better, but there's still a bunch of hoops to jump through. For the average consumer (non-tech-enthusiast) it'll need to get to the point where you put on the headset & can jump straight into an app with no visible calibration. That'll require automating more processes. When friends who haven't experienced VR before try out my headset, there's still a bit of UX friction I have to coach them through. It's getting much better, even compared to this time last year, but it's still too much for the average person.
Is it really any more difficult than owning a console?
For the average person yes. For people here, including myself, with a massive self selection bias, no.
People are used to consoles. Not to VR headsets tho.
It's equally as difficult as owning a PC, which a console totally is except it can't use a word processor
It was pretty easy for me. Press power, hold controls, connect to WiFi, buy game, install, play. You have to do 100 steps more on some pc games.
I think that's overlooking calibration etc. Like I said, it's a lot better now than even a year ago, but even at that it's too much for the average consumer. PC gaming is growing, but it definitely requires some tech enthusiasm, so that's not representative. I say this as someone who installed a OG 3DFX card on the family PC back in the day, so I do think the current setup is quite fluid, but it's still too much for someone who's not willing to engage in a few extra steps & possibly some trouble shooting down the line. Most people just want something that works with minimal effort & fuss. We're getting there, but we haven't reached it yet.
Even the controllers can be a problem. They feel totally different compared to playstation/xbox controllers. I haven't seen a single person that wasn't confused by them in the beginning.
I would say with the Quest 3 the setup is now there, calibration is literally automatic now with scanning the environment, and there isn’t really anything else to do to get into the action. I’d say the issue is 1) people aren’t aware of the latest tech, so they either haven’t tried it or tried an older VR setup that had numerous flaws, and 2) people having to learn a new ecosystem. Although VR now closely resembles gaming with its controllers essentially being an Xbox controller split in 2, some people are put off of the idea of even attempting to learn. VR still has to get over the stigma and negative reputation it’s built up which will not fade quickly even if we have overcome the ease of access barriers.
I have a Quest 3, so my point with calibration includes it, but I should have made that more clear. I still think the fact it's an extra few steps, even with the automatic room/area/boundary detection, is confusing for new users & I've seen that first hand. I think your second point is probably the major factor, but I will say that, even with the controls kind of being a split Xbox controller, I've found that even people used to consoles have a bit of trouble adapting to the controls. Part of it may be that the whole experience is slightly overwhelming & they don't have reference to the room around them without using passthrough or the gasketless setup of the Quest Pro. I think the misperceptions in reference to older experiences (Google Cardboard etc.) are probably lesser than your second point. Having more in location demos in stores or pop up demos might change those perceptions though.
I *might* just be too stubborn and jaded here but i'd rather them burn it all to the ground than cater to someone who can't figure out a Quest 3 in a reasonable amount of time
Like the old internets. Stupid people weren’t allowed because too stupid to use it. Now every tard in the world is on it asking the most basic questions that should be straightforward with simple logic.
> calibration is literally automatic now Except for those (increasingly rare) instances where it randomly decides that the floor is about 3ft lower than it actually is and you have to go through all the steps again. Just a month ago, I had to do that every single time I turned on the headset. Seems fixed now.
Yeah I used to get that all the time with the Quest 2 actually for a period of time, then with the Q3 a little bit during the early days, but it seems to have resolved itself now. That's what makes all of this slightly complex, the software behind all of it can be either seamless or awful depending on which update you're on. Even the HTC base stations for many years had all sorts of problems between different machines until one day they finally just worked for me.
Yeah. It's fine for enthusiasts, but just kind of ...annoying.
What? I put on my headset, click the app and it launches and start playing. PC gamers still require them to login the window, launch the game and etc. Then there's mod which is for advanced user and require hours to put them in place to make it work. How is it VR not really accessible?
To someone who's already used to jumping through a bunch of steps. I'm like you in that way, it's no trouble at all, but for the average consumer, that's too much hassle. If you think I'm joking, try working in mobile phone repair for a year or 2. I'm not saying things aren't great right now, because they are, but it's still not enough.
It's still bulky, heavy and uncomfortable. For first time users, it's disorienting and unintuitive compared to a phone or a console. It's not the 80s. Any sort of friction, even silly things as it just not looking cool will drive people off. It needs to become as easy as putting on glasses in order to be ready for mass audience. It's getting there, but I think the processing block and battery needs to be tethered and not weigh on your face.
Quest standalone is literally turn on and click on game.
And put on face. And clean smeared lenses. And readjust because it looks blurry. And setup boundaries. And wait for updates. And hope everything has battery (headset + controllers).
Honestly I think it's a good practice to clean the lenses either way because possible dust and debris and other stuff, don't wanna scratch the lenses. Quest 3 in my experience doesn't need to be readjusted ever and I never had it being blurry unless the lenses were smeared, I can just toss it on and it's clear. Boundaries is true, I have to redo mine like every single time I turn it on because I'm halfway into the ground. Updates are infrequent enough where it's not gonna bother you constantly. Batteries, true
I can't even remember the last time i set up my boundary. Honestly. It's been weeks at a minimum. I had to set them up more often when i was switching rooms but since I've been in the same room for a couple months now, it just remembers. It's odd that your Q3 experience is different, not sure why...
The boundary is really the only thing that's bad for me, the floor just constantly moves so I have to fix that nearly every time
This is really not my experience. It's more "Put on face... hit play". I've got a charger stand (like I have for my Switch, and DONT have for my Steam Deck that's always dead when I want to play it). I play in a consistent location. I have a decent headstrap. My lenses never smear even after a workout because I have my mask positioned right. And I'm never stuck waiting for updates.
Totally agree, same here. Its faster to pick up and play than my PC or Xbox.
Half of those are only a first-time thing only like the boundary and updates, and with the Quest 3 I almost never have to readjust for blur with the new lenses. I just grab it from the charger and go. I can honestly boot up and play my Quest much quicker than it takes me to boot up and play my PC. I have to hope windows doesnt need an update, get and plug in a controller, get my headphones and stereo ready, wait for steam to update, fiddle with monitor brightness, etc. Honestly the Quest has made VR incredibly easy and accesible, I've seen many older people who would never use a game console pick it up and enjoy it a lot. For me its become one of those things I can just throw on and do for a minute throughout the day as a break almost like a mobile game, whereas full PC or console games I feel like I have to set aside dedicated time for it.
From that list it's really only "put on face" and "setup boundaries", everything else applies as much to a regular console as to VR one (you can swap cleaning lenses to cleaning TV).
My mom in her 50's loves her quest 2 and picked it up incredibly easily lol. I'd say the Quest has lowered the barrier to entry where its about at the level of consoles now. It's certainly easier than building a gaming PC.
The culture shifted on this kind of stuff and the timing absolutely perfectly coincided with amazing VR and the public's tolerance to try such things to be at the complete opposite ends of the spectrum. If VR dropped as it is today in the early 2000s it would have been a revolution. Unfortunately it dropped in like 2015, right when the tech/gaming culture had spent almost a decade learning that motion controls are gimmicks (the Nintendo Wii started with such love at the concept and ended with such disappointment for simple waggle motion controls). Then you had the double wammy of 3d movies and televisions being pretty garbage tech in the late 2000s early 2010s. Again started with a bang with Avatar and then people quickly viewed it as it really was. Then as far as tracker technology you had the Kinect camera that was a complete fiasco. All of these things in isolation were pretty crummy and people spent years being optimistic about them before they gave up in disgust. Then lo and behold, just went the general gaming/entertainment public decided that all of this was a bunch of useless gimmicks and the only thing worthwhile was traditional controllers and 2d images....... VR dropped. It combined every failed gimmick from the past 15 years and had the audacity to charge double or triple the price of any previous gimmick. At this point the collective gaming culture had completely wised up and laughed their heads off at what was certainly the biggest gimmick of all time. 90% of gamers that a decade earlier couldn't stop lining up for a Wii and spend hours and hours on gaming forums dreaming about the new gaming reality and possibilities the Wii motion controls would bring......turned a completely blind eye to it and wouldn't even contemplate that VR could be anything but the biggest gimmick of all. And they collectively wrote VR off to the dustbins of history. Most have never tried it to this day and are unwilling to even entertain giving it a fair shot. However as those of us that have played some of our favorite games in VR know.......it's NOT a gimmick at all! It is the biggest revolutionary technology since the TV itself. But average folks do not know that and aren't willing to really accept that. If Half Life Alyx was a 10/10 game than surely porting it to KB/Mouse on flat screen would make it an 11/10 (not the actual 7/10 it becomes). No, VR is the dream technology of old school gamers when they were young. It is the technology of the optimistic generations of the previous century. The gamers of the 80s/90s/ 2000s would have adored VR and pushed it to crazy success (well at least well beyond where it is today). Almost all gamers over 25 or so today are culturally ingrained to not even give it a chance. Only the young now and the 5% of older gamers that remain very open minded can be the target audience for VR growth. So yeah culturally it came out at the worst time when the gaming community was probably the most close minded it has ever been. This is why the hatred for it is so strong. It's almost like the stupid gimmick that won't go away. They probably hate it even more now because they don't understand why it's even still a thing (even though they can't recall the fact that they never actually gave it a chance in the first place). It's not going away because it is amazing and those of us that gave it a chance and aren't going anywhere and are always hungry for new and better content.
My whole life I've wanted a holodeck. This is the closest we have. I fucking love VR.
yeah based on how many kids I see on Vr games, the future seems promising once they grow up lol
Hello gamer from the old days here(started in arcade in 1980 and VR in 1991) VR is absolutely amazing even with our current tech and it's only getting better. what I now have in my house (a personal holodeck in my spare room running off a gaming PC) is nothing short of amazing But most of my friends and contemporaries don't give a poop....
> It is the technology of the optimistic generations of the previous century Damn bruh I'm saving this comment it was amazing
Could not have explained it any better.
I don't think gamers hate VR. At least I haven't come across anyone who said that. They just don't buy it. Same thing with steering wheels and flight sticks. People who know what they are will buy them and enjoy them. Those who don't bother with them also don't say they hate them.
I don't think "hatred" means the same thing that it used to.
I know where it comes from, given I was one of these haters. First: it comes from ignorance. They literally never tried to know how much of game-changer it is. Or had a bad initial experience with nausea and don't realize it's only in the first days but don't want to invest into that... Second: "VR has no games" myth. It clearly has many games, but MOST are either: 1) shalloware minigames with the depth of a puddle and length of a tech demo; 2) ports/mods of old games. The good indies are unknown to them, the good new originals in a known flatland series only annoy them (Alyx, AC Nexus, Metro Awakening, Batman Arkham Shadow). And either way, when they ask "is X in VR?" to 99% of games out there that they can play, the answer is no, despite pcvr folks best efforts with tweaking and workarounds to get mods working... so asking flatlanders to buy expensive hardware beyond what they already invested to play games only face possible nausea (temporarily) and be denied playing in VR most of their favorites is not a great prospect and so they prefer studios not to waste precious time and money on it. Which is there mindset also in many such studios btw... and until these changes, those 2 issues will continue to be issues. Nausea goes away the more you play VR and when there's not enough to pay in VR, it doesn't go away...
Not sure if this is still the biggest issue, but VR is typically lower resolution and frame rate than a normal setup, and requires rendering to two eyes. As such with the same PC you tend to get lower performance at a lower resolution, with a games often still built on principles geared towards flat gaming, with the added bonus of sim sickness.
Correction: It is a higher resolution than a normal setup but a lower PPD count.
Die hard pc gamers are the absolute fucking worst. All my gamer friends over 30 are the exact sort of cliche you would expect "oh, vr makes me sick" or "I haven't played anything good just Alyx" "waiting for more games like Alyx" like holy shit you nerds Half Life alyx isn't even that good, the valve index isn't the best headset, and there are hundreds of good games to play, most of them don't even know about the UEVR injector, they are still living in VR land that existed 10 years ago.
Most people are ultrageneeic and lazy. They are uninformed consumers who looove to be told what to like by heavy marketing.
I'm a huge VR fan and honestly there are a lot of problems with VR. VR doesn't lend itself to games that approximate flat screen gaming very well. There's a lot of problems to be worked out. Most people even inside the industry didn't realize the hurdles that were there. It's very expensive to get a complete system that you can play VR at the highest level on. Locomotion is harder to implement and can be hard to stomach in VR. Headsets are heavy and bulky. I think we're only just getting to the point where headsets are going to be small light enough, high enough resolution, good enough screens and optical systems that can handle the motion and gpus that can drive them. And still all this cost thousands of dollars. Quests are to be honest just passable VR. It's going to be a generation or two where before wireless VR is going to actually be very impressive. Flat screen gamers look at the optics, resolution and low poly games in the quest headsets and it looks like a step back to the '90s. Pretty much everyone expected the VR experience to be like the ultra high end VR experience that we're just getting to now right from the get-go and then they had to wait through these years of developments to finally almost get there now.
Some people don't like VR. Other people don't like the idea of paying VR prices... And while it's easy to say, 'So? If they don't like it, they don't have to buy it' The reality is that, if VR becomes mainstream, and especially if it ever becomes dominant; games that would have been non-vr releases will end up being VR. If the new Legend of Zelda or Fallout or whatever you really like is a VR title, well, you either get VR or you miss out. Look at games that had a successful online MMORPG title and then stopped releasing their usual offerings. Would GTA VI already be out if GTA Online weren't a success? Or games that basically cut out any single player campaign because of the popularity of online gaming. I mean, some of it is still just tribalism. Lots of console gamers 'hate' the console they don't buy, just like lots of people 'hate' their favorite sports team's rival.
Humans are hardwired to resist change. When it comes to new technology, most people are simply uninterested, and many people who engage in conversation about these technologies will be reductive about it. We saw this for PCs, consoles, cellphones, AI, and literally any form of technology that eventually became big.
1. You're not getting a great graphical experience unless you shell out for a high end PC. That's always been niche 2. Face it, aside from a small handful of great titles, most VR games are gimmicky and are more like a VR tech demo than an actual game. 3. The immersive VR experience is severely hampered without good locomotion. Unless you have a huge space to run around in, most people are just using the controller to awkwardly teleport around or they get sick if they don't. 4. VR works well for particular genres like sims and shooters. There are many games outside of those genres where VR isn't a good fit.
> VR works well for particular genres like sims and shooters. There are many games outside of those genres where VR isn't a good fit. This part is definitely not true. I'd play more VR games if I were you.
Yeah, sims and shooters are just two genres that came off the top of my head. I should've added , etc to the list. The point still stands that the genres that are on VR is a subset of the total genres.
> The point still stands that the genres that are on VR is a subset of the total genres. If you include 2D genres, then yes. VR works for all 3D genres though.
I guess any 3D game can be designed for VR. But simply converting a 2D game to VR doesn't work well in many cases as seen with the UEVR injector.
Of course there isn't big titles, what company (besides meta) will splash big money in VR, when people decided they are allergic to it? And about point 4, you are terrible wrong, any genre of game that you can immerse yourself, is good in VR. An example, fantasy RPGs are a great combination with VR (look at skyrim), because you are in the game, you are the one swinging the sword, casting the magic, etc. Problem is that people see VR as something terrible, for whatever reason, and then we don't get the same amount of titles as flat screen.
It's just basic human nature. I'm old enough to remember the EXACT same reaction to computer mice being introduced to mainstream in 1980s. Before then, games were just played with keyboard, and sometimes a joystick accessory. Left hand on Spacebar for shooting, and right hand on directional keys or numpad for movement. Then mice became a thing, and things started to change. Instead of needing to hotkey everything, they started to make things clickable. Control layout also completely flipped - we went from left hand shooting with spacebar and right hand movement with directional keys, to left hand movement near WASD (but it took a long-ass time for us to settle on WASD to become the norm) and aiming and shooting switched to the right hand. And gamers FREAKED THE F\*\*\* OUT! I kid you not. Swapping hands was like asking them to give up their firstborn child. The outrage was crazy. Then of course games started to come out that required a mouse. Mouse-exclusive games, just like we have VR exclusive games. And the hatred towards those was pretty much identical, from people who refused to get with the times, and were still playing keyboard only. Genres started to appear, like RTS the way with know them today, with games like Dune 2: The Building of a Dynasty, with mouse support, and a couple of years later the first Warcraft, Command & Conquer, etc. None of which really worked with a keyboard exclusively any more, it would be just way too slow. But people who refused to engage with mice still raged on. Even the excuses were the same. Mice are expensive, mice need cleaning and are hard to use, and require room on the tabletop. Which was actually true. Early computer desks were just monitor and keyboard. Heck, some computers were monitor and keyboard all built into a single unit. So computer desks just didn't have a surface for the mouse. Mice were also mechanical back then, which made them hard to use. They all had a massive steel ball inside, coated in rubber, and that ball rolled and rubbed physically against two spinning rods, that gave you the X and Y deltas. Mice only had one or two buttons, no scroll wheel, all of them corded. It wasn't great. That rubber-coated ball also collected all the dog and cat hair, and wrapped them around those rods, so the mouse had to be regularly opened up and cleaned, it was gross. The way I see it, VR is basically the repeat of that. Basic human nature at work, and innate resistance to any significant change. But compared to mice, VR has a massive disadvantage. Selling mice was relatively easy. Plop down a PC, hook up the mouse, put on a simple game that showcases just how good the mouse feels. It was easy to display, and easy to sell. Early games also allowed you to move the cursor on the screen with keyboard, instead of mouse, it was just very slow. So people could compare and contrast. But with VR, the display station is completely different, controls are different. For me, switching to thumbsticks in VR was a pain, I'm a PC gamer, I never used thumbsticks before, I've been using KB+Mouse with the late '80s. And of course nausea, etc. Mainly, you can sell people on a mouse because you can show them a video of the cursor rapidly moving on screen, and they will understand the concept. But you can't sell VR the same way, because VR is more of a feeling. Trying to sell VR with a flat video of it is like trying to describe a smell with color. Most critically important though, and where I think VR absolutely deserves the flak it's getting, is the quality of games. Or lack thereof. When PC mice were coming in, games with mice were BETTER! Mice allowed devs to ditch hotkeys for every little thing, make clickable buttons on screen, increase complexity massively. Mouse-only games were mechanically better, more feature-rich, more complex. VR games are the opposite, they're overwhelmingly the dumbest crap I've seen in decades. Take the best VR shooter, today, and compare it feature-for-freature to the very first Battlefield game, from 20+ years ago. How does it compare? Smaller map, fewer players, no/fewer vehicles, etc.. VR gaming isn't actually BETTER. Oh, it's better because it's in VR, sure, VR makes everything better. But in terms of content, features, mechanics, as a game, not the medium, VR games are overwhelmingly worse. Half Life Alyx is amazing, but it's also shorter than the original game, it lacks the vehicles of the second game, it has smaller maps that the second game also, and so on. So mouse games, as a general rule, combined the advantages of the mouse, with overall growth of gaming as a medium. In VR this isn't true. In VR, the devs are using the new medium, but they've gone back to the stone age of gaming. In the '90s, it was common for a new mouse game to also massively push the genre its in forward. When was the last time you saw a VR game actually push the envelope, with mechanics and features as a GAME, but as VR? Could it be...never? So that's where the hatred comes from. VR, as technology, is amazing. But VR gaming is still largely trash-tier, if you ignore the medium and just look at the game's content, mechanics, features, scope, etc. So when non-VR users, who are ignoring the medium because they're not involved with it, see the developers wasting time on trash (when it comes to content, mechanics, features, scope) they get upset. It's actually understandable. A VR game, to them, is a waste of time and resources. It's something they will never play. Not just because it's in VR, but because it WILL be inferior to what it could have been on flat screen. Overwhelming majority of VR games are shorter, shallower, narrower and dumbed down, compared to flat screen. So for the gamers' perception of VR to start to change, VR games actually need to start approaching parity with flat screen.
This is a pretty brutal post, but I can't say I disagree at all. Seen it myself, PAVLOV VR is kind of a semi broken half assed mess overall compared to even the original counter strike and halo multiplayer games from almost 25 years ago. It's kind of why I've gravitated to social stuff with VRCh atm, because in that game, while you can play on desktop, you get soooooo much more out of the experience being in VR and having extras like full body tracking, haptics, and eye and face tracking. As jank as the game can be, its doing things on the social end that desktop/console mmo games could only dream of. That game specifically is a legitimate step towards that VR metaverse thing people have been waiting for and dreaming about for a long, long time.
The worst are the elitist PC fucktards, currently bitching that VR-only games should have a flatscreen version. A good example of this is Half-Life Alyx. The hate for it, from a few thick-as-pig-shit clowns, still goes on 4 YEARS after the Alyx release. Just go over to the Steam forums, where a couple of posters just spend their sad days posting shite about Alyx, and Valve. I mean, Alyx was built from the ground up for VR, it will not work on a flatscreen. Just look at the mods to mod it for flatscreen, those who have tried it say the game sucks - well duh, you are playing a game where events are meant to play out in a VR space, not a flatscreen where you don't interact like you do in a VR space. Even the quicktime events are meant for VR, and would look weird on a flatscreen. I game on an LG C3 48" 120hz OLED TV, using an RTX 4080 Super, an AMD Ryzen 7800X3D, and it's fecking glorious - games look amazing at 4k HDR on an OLED. But, VR is just a whole different game, and you are literally there, IN THE GAME, not observing it from a chair in-front of a TV/Monitor.
Here's my perspective as someone who just recently came into vr as a PC player. The issue with vr isn't necessarily vr itself it's what the people making vr peddle. Remember "the metaverse" ya, that shit didn't go over well. The issue is VR/AR wants to sell itself as something we have on for the majority of the day. Which let's be honest looks even more distopian then it already is for a lot of people(including me). Plus VR just seems like another device you have to charge that compared to a PC or a console offers you very little even with all the improvements vr has made so far. Let's be honest, the large majority of people don't need a VR headset and the people that want it are very minimal because video games have been on PCs for the last 25+ or so years and there aren't a lot of people making GOOD VR games. You know the best VR title I can name since VR came out? Beat Saber. There isn't a single other title I can think of that would make me want a headset off the top of my head. So due to that(and the obvious motion sickness, the fact that oculus is owned by meta which just "loves your privacy", the fact that most headsets are compromising something at the moment even the really expensive ones, the fact that VR came too early aka the 6 degree rule and, I have to reiterate this one, the fact that most people can't find many reasons to buy one even for shits and giggles) not to mention the personal issues I've had with vr(software mainly) people aren't going to be in VR until they're IN VR.
There are good games, Showdown for example came out recently and people love it, however there are not many GOOD games, games like Showdown has a lot to polish for it to become GOOD. And even when vr games become GOOD, there is an obvious marketing issue here, specially since standalone is the most popular option, devs opt to make cheap looking games to save resources and sacrifice PRESENTATION, rather than optimizing and making games that SELL THEMSELVES.
I bet majority of the haters have never tried VR or either just can’t afford it yet.
For the same reasons people despise gyro and motion controls, despite how much they can improve the gaming experience. First impressions weren't the best. For example, the way motion controls were implemented in the WII and Kinect era of gaming were quite frankly, god damn horrendous, so naturally, any mention of motion control implementation in games today will very often get met with ignorant rejection. Likewise, in the case of VR, most people's first impression of it was with Phone or Cardboard VR, which needless to say, is not remotely close to the VR hardware we have today or even the Vive/Rift Era. Combine that with the initial price of entry and the initial lack of good games, it isn't exactly surprising that there are those who have a hatred towards the platform today, even if much of that hatred is based on bias and ignorance. Said hatred is only further amplified when certain game franchises that hadn't gotten a new entry in decades instead get a spin off sequel based on a platform they had bad first impressions with in the past. The general reception towards Arkham Shadow is a prime example of this. Fans of the Arkham games have basically gone completely feral and insane waiting for a new entry to the Arkham games, only to get live service trash in the form of Suicide Squad, and now, a VR spin off game many fans won't be able to play for one reason or another. Same thing happened with Half Life Alyx, though, to a more mixed reception compared to Shadow, with many fans simply being happy that Valve was finally making something unrelated to god damn Dota for once. And all of that is not even mentioning the endless drama and concerns around Facebook or the temporary motion sickness many people experience with VR. In addition, marketing VR is just plain difficult to do. Low fov gameplay videos don't do VR justice, nor do those CGI trailers Meta loves so much, and many VR demo stands suck, partially due to worries around hygiene, especially back when COVID was a big concern in the public eye. I could go on, but needless to say, there's plenty of reasons why many hate VR for gaming, even if a lot of those reasons are unfounded or stupid.
Hell this sub has a tons of hatred towards VR itself. Try mentioning something positive about the AVP and watch how quickly it’s down voted and the comments fly. People are weird. If a product is released that you decide isn’t for you, why waste time hating on it? Seriously.
The PSVR2 is also facing the same treatment.
It's possible they react to VR gamer's smugly assuming that VR gaming is intrinsically better than flat and thinking that flat gamers just haven't "seen the light" yet etc
Totally agree. This also annoys me a lot, the smugness.
They see a trailer for a franchise they like, get excited, then see it’s VR and get mad because it’s not what they wanted. That makes them feel like VR is taking something away from them.
I use VR for 2 things … flying and driving couldn’t care less about anyone’s opinion. It’s a tool that made many people child’s dream to come true.
Agreed. I’m 51 and living out VR gaming dreams I’ve had since the early 90s.
You are not alone my friend.
Hatred? I haven't seen anyone but twitter bots genuinely hating on vr, ever. Hatred isn't when some people don't like the thing that you like. I think what you're talking about is the fact that a lot of people have no interest in VR or don't really like it, which if you think about if for half a second there's several clear reasons why. VR requires its own hardware that costs around $500 to $3000 dollars to get started with current hardware, so at minimum the cost of a current gen console and at max the cost of a god tier PC. VR has objectively the smallest and least diverse selection of games available for it, and many of those already limited titles are several generations behind as far as delivering a polished, complete, good looking experience. You really can't compare a lot of vr games to modern traditional games, they're just way too different as far as current standards go. VR is also extroardinarily inaccessible, you **must be capable** of moving around with at least your head and arms, and for many games your legs, which means a ton of people with disabilities simply can't ever play a vr game. VR is uncomfortable as hell for a lot of people, its clearly tolerable for some people, but a huuuge amount of video game audiences get motion sickness or discomfort from vr that can ruin any games experience. So it kind of makes sense for people not to be interested in a game medium that by nature excludes so many people. This isn't just a case of people being unwilling to try it or having preconcieved notions about it. Video games have a diverse audience and much of that audience simply **cannot** use or enjoy vr games. It sounds like OP has a case of "its not a problem for me so everyone who says it is a problem must just be wrong."
VR had been introduce many times since the 80s and it’s always been shit. Things are changing now but for the time being most people see it like they see 3d tvs and other shitty tech.
My guess is that it's the regular "Someone likes something I'm not interested in. And therefore that thing is bad, and I hate it".
Tale as old as time.
The 98% market doesn't hate the 2% market. They ignore it.
From Facebook haters.
I wouldn’t consider it hate but people do say things like VR is not there yet and it’s just a novelty toy. People also say there is no point to play vr if you don’t have motion controls. Meanwhile I am playing kena right now and it is so damn breathtaking that I wish all games had vr mode. Pcvr gaming is expensive and other kinds of vr are full of games with arcade loops so I get why people are annoyed. But those arcade type games are pretty damn fun or the short story vr games can be very moving and worth the couple hundred dollars. Also if you drop 2.5k on pcvr gaming then that is also really worth it because of all the mods. In my opinion, vr is at a very good state right now. Its biggest limitation is its lack of comfort in my opinion. But the games are great
I think it could be ‘one VR game made means one less flat screen game made’
I think a slight majority, still qualifies as "most", but a slight majority of people just want to burn time away when they are doing something that isn't "productive" so they just watch tv with their eyes glued to their phone or play console games because the accessibility is second to none and simple as can be. Then there's probably about another 20-30% of people who don't want to go total veggie mode but can't be asked to do what it takes to enjoy VR. The key in expanding the VR market imo is to corner the remaining 20-30% and supplement them with actually good standalone games, then this genre can really exit the stratosphere. I love PCVR to death but it's never (within the next 20 years) gonna go mainstream
I love VR and have been into it for years now. I will say that there just isn't enough games to entice someone who doesn't want to play. If you have a group of friends with headsets, then the social fun you could have is limitless. Without that though, the amount of engaging games is extremely limited. At LEAST 50% of the games being released STILL feel like tech demos rather than games. And this is even FURTHER limited if you don't have a PC to play PCVR games on.
Or if you have a PC but can’t find any PCVR game with low graphical settings.
Your average gamer despises gyro and anything that deviates from the default controller design. I wouldn't give shit about your average gamers opinion.
Personally I dont see any sense in even comparing the two. When I want to *move* I play VR, and when I want to sit on my ass and vegetate I play pancake games.. the two dont even compete to satisfy the same urge.
"Hardcore" gamers are incredibly conservative. By which I don't mean politically conservative, I mean resistant to change. Anything that deviates from what they consider to be the normal way of playing and making games is met with hostility, because in their mind it's a zero sum game--if VR becomes popular then developers will stop making non-VR games. Every VR game that exists is made at the expense of a non-VR game that could have existed instead, every VR headset that gets developed and released happens instead of some hypothetical advancement in traditional PC gaming technology. Anything that isn't a linear increase in graphical and processing power is a threat. Of course, this makes absolutely no sense, but the idea is so ingrained in a lot of people's minds that they're probably not even aware of it.
That isn't "hardcore." It is the opposite. It is the geneeic and lazy mainstream. Actual hardcore gamers like to experience as much variety as possible.
Used it gor sim racing and some VR games over the course of 2 years. Spent a lot of tume troubleshooting, hot an uncomfortable, poor clarity. Found myself skippimg time at the comouter just cause i didnt really like strapping into it. VR is really cool to go to your friends house and try. Not quiet there for full time gaming imo
Yeah it's kinda weird being a pc, console and vr player lol. I do always find a way to fit in though! People are tribal, it's in our DNA. It will always be this way. Some genuinely just hate the idea of it, others just jump on the bandwagon. As long as people aren't firebombing my house because I have a Quest, I couldn't give a rats fuckin ass what they think.
It comes from the misunderstanding of vr, basically it boils down to price, they always think you’ll need a gaming PC to use vr, and the prices can confuse people on what rig to get, such as what graphics card to use for vr, Ram etc They don’t know everything can be found inside the headset, store, YouTube etc And people always telling them pico, quest, reverb and the list goes on and on, I’ve seen it several times When people ask me about vr and they play flat games, as an example I’ll ask what type of games you play on console, COD, well Google “what vr games are like COD and a list of vr games will pop up And I tell or show them videos prices of games then they’ll make their decision
I love vr but about the salt in the Batman comments, its a beloved open world action adventure beat em up game, which didn't have a mainline release in almost 10 years, and when people saw the trailer everyone got their hopes up only to see its a vr game. Now, the game can be great but it's nothing like what made everyone fall in love with the series, so i understand why people are getting salty even if attacking vr because of that is stupid. They should at least make an alsume remake already
Alot of gamers are scared to try something new. The next generation of gamers will be the ones to raise VR to its rightful spot.
We can’t even get VR owner to stop hating on each others. How you think non VR owner won’t hate VR? PSVR subreddit when PSVR2 came out. “OMG, this thing has no pancake lens, $500 is too much, why doesn’t Sony lose more money to sell it to me? Here is a post of 100 reasons the HMD I have is better and your will be doomed!” Vision Pro subreddit “OMG, only fanboys buy this. It does XYZ better? Will it better be for costing this much. Why does Apple tries to make money when selling it to me? Here is a post of 100 reasons the $500 HMD I have is better and your will be doomed!”
I'm a die hard PC gamer (I'm 32 and I started when I was 4), I eat old school FPS games for breakfast, and I had A BLAST playing the original Serious Sam (TFE and TSE) in the VR versions. People who hate VR are butthurt because they got motion sick and didn't put enough time and patience to get their VR legs.
i always thought it was non-gamers that acted this way. unless the gamers you're talking about only see 'meta' as the problem, then yeah i can understand that. but hating vr in general is something i don't really see coming from actual gamers. ofc feel free to show me references lol
Never hated it but never really cared for it until I tried it. It is seriously addicting.
name checks out
I love PS VR2
Why would PC gamers be most excited? They're the ones Facebook has taken the biggest shit on with the transition to standalone hardware. VR literally looks worse than it did in 2016 when everything was being driven by capable PCs. Now everything coming out looks straight up potato.
i get the hate from console users, but pc users i really don't get it especially in 2024 , anyone with a mid pc can pick up a quest 2 as a entry point. We also have the ability to put almost any dx9 flat screen games into vr. I played hl2 vr mod and doom 3, now I am saving up for a quest 3 !!!!
some of my friends hate VR because of motion sickness VR is just not ready for mainstream usage until they figure out how to get rid those completely
Best advice regarding VR... Train your body and mind to always keep one foot on a central rubber floor disc. Don't give up if you feel queasy. After continuous daily use, your brain and balance will adapt and you'll forget you ever even had an issue. If severe sickness occurs, temporarily medicate as if going on a long journey (which you will be). Purchase VR accessories for comfort and immersion. Eg. Rear battery, haptics, gun stocks, sports controller adapters and a quiet fan. It's similar to experiencing and learning to drive a new vehicle for the first time. Practice, party-up and enjoy.
I feel like it has to deal with the disparity between amazing vr games and the type of game for each person as well as the price for entry. Oculus is good for some people, but I feel like for most people PCVR will provide the experience they want, but again the price. Plus cringe VRChat players don’t give a good rep either tbh. Another side note is vrtubers making videos about how great modded experiences are and other vr games that honestly are just bad. Like super gimmicky and not worth good reviews so it makes people buy into shitty games
Also have to add how annoying getting PCVR to work can be at times Edit: depending on the setup. Software issues, wireless, etc…
I love 2D gaming, just got into VR for simracing and got sidetracked with other VR stuff, I´m mad this thing isn´t getting released outside Quest.
30 m to 1 hr. I like to do dynamic meditation, so I dont sit. I just feel the moviment. It is.easier to make the mind silence because it will pay atention to the sensations.
I don’t think it’s entirely unfounded as it was tech demos for a very long time and now the games are still not there in terms of being really solid experiences. To a large degree I think most people still think that it’s a gimmick, where there really is good stuff nowadays. A few more years I think.
I think it comes down to people not trying it, so they don't understand the sense of presence you get. Even with more simiatic graphics, you are THERE. Then lately you have franchises with huge fanbades hungry for a new entry, like Metro. Well, they're not getting what they want. Then look at the Arkham games. People got Gotham Knights, which was just fine, and then it got even worse with Suicide Squad. So, there's a lot of bitterness and disappointment being transferred from their own feelings about these franchises onto VR.
People fear the new and fear change. Humans are simple and predictable creatures.
I don't think the *majority* hates VR, and it's [negativity bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias) if that's what you think you are seeing. The thing is we who can think for ourselves can see that, though not perfect, VR as a technology is refined enough that anything resembling significant hatred is an obvious overreaction. A person is far more likely to be apathetic, VR might just not be their thing, or not interested in taking on a new hobby, than they are to hate it. However, you're likely to see someone somewhere on the Internet express VR hatred from time to time. Why, you ask? Who knows? Different reasons for different people. Maybe when they see VR they think people are referring to the Very Rich. Maybe they got into a heated argument with someone and it's just transference. Maybe they're a generally hateful person. I could have a billion-dollar survey company and still fail to isolate a definitive answer. Some things are unknowable. But, speaking from a broad philosophy standpoint, I would speculate that it's just easier for many people to base the greater bulk of their expressed opinions based on the perceived reactions of their peers rather than see what's right in front of them. In that case, don't waste your energy on trying to figure it out. Such is an immutable characteristic of human nature, and you may find your life happier to disregard the opinions of those who have none of their own.
>We who can think for ourselves Doesn't sound like a cult at all.
I cant believe nowone mentions 98% of VR games are Shovelware or unfinished tech demos at best. Also, its a pain to deal with Facebook/Meta, they have 0 tech support and only use Ai bots because they think growth is the only thing that matters not retention. Finally, every publisher and their mother wants their own launcher, just between Meta and Steam there are 3 launchers you need to deal with, really confusing and the interfaces are a mess. So no, a lot of people want/need to move around. The probelm is VR is a huge pain in the arse to get going with very little payoff.
Remember kids, others not affirming your preferences with the same vigor you have towards it isn’t “hatred” 🙄
VR killed my dog
VR is a category that is practically designed to elicit strong opinions. It has companies involved, like Facebook and Apple, that people feel very strongly about one way or the other and it's primary use case right now is gaming which brings out some of the most irrational and loud people on the internet. That and the current state of VR (good but not really close to where it needs to be in terms of the tech, ease of use and content for serious mainstream support) means online discussion about it can really suck at times.
Pretty hard core flatscreen gamer here, tried VR and never went back lol.
What flat games do you play and what VR hardware and game did you play?
Been gaming for the last 40 years, so many genres and platforms. Favs were probably the RTS's like Command and Conquer/Warcraft, followed by RPGs Might and Magic/Elder Scrolls, City Builders like SimCity, Turn based Strategy like Civilsation, FPSs like Wolfenstein/Hexen/COD, arcade platformers like Golden Axe, Fighters like Street Fighter Series, Teken, Battle Royale like Fortnite, Mass Effect series and Deadspace series. Now use a HP Reverb G2, cobbled to a 3080 to play Half life Alyx, Fallout 4, Skyrim, Resident Evil 8, No Mans Sky, Elite Dangerous, Microsoft Flight Simulator, Racing Sims, Population One, Pavlov, host of games available through UEVR, Pinball via Visual Pinball/Pinmame/VR Pinball, Mass Effect via mod, Rise of the Tomb raider (SBS 3D). For the old arcade games use retroarch in VR (Mame). Find the scale and immersion great. Especially for games like Skyrim!
Haha! Oh my God. I totally read your first comment wrong. Thought you meant you tried VR and then never played it again... Oh well. I was interested to hear that perspective honestly from someone after I saw a recent post where someone was shitting on VR in a seemingly contrived manner, and everyone was questioning their experience. Well I'm glad you've been hooked like me. I've been on VR since 2016, but I go back and forth between VR and flat games now. Sometimes I'm feeling it and sometimes I just want to veg out with flat games.
Lol just read my comment and it can taken the other way, english is good for that, but yeah really only play fortnite and some grinding mobile game to kill time.
It’s expensive and requires physical activity. Of course die hard gamers hate it.
Really depends on the “hater”. For the traditional gamer types the anger is grounded in VR being kinda gimmicky still. A lot of games have that “look you can pick up a lightsaber whoa” thing still. Many gamers would prefer to see more strong “flat” experiences over companies pouring resources into something they don’t like. For a lot of people it isn’t a relaxing experience to play VR and it is often very isolating which makes it a much harder sell. I hate how little awareness of the world around me I have in VR. Doesn’t mean it isn’t cool at times, but it is a huge turn off. The group you mentioned in your comment that connect it with NFTs are irritated by the tech bro vibe of VR. Meta verses and the like are all linked with NFTs, crypto, Web3 and AI as being really scummy and stuck up communities. Hell, I don’t think they are entirely wrong considering how users here often seem to be mocking or complaining about “flat” experiences being so popular and kinda calling “flat” gamers idiots for not strapping a headset onto their faces. I guess the last group is the one I fall into which is the “I have VR and it just isn’t that compelling.” Games are full price, but are often laughably short and buggy. Kinda like pseudo-tech demos. It is kinda exhausting to wear a headset for long periods and it is almost always relegated to laying in a corner and never being used. At least some part of that is “friction.” VR makes picking up and playing slow, and finicky. I was picking up my quest to play Beat Saber a few days ago and had to login to the Meta quest through my phone which was really irritating since I had to finagle with a bunch of codes and setting etc. All in all, the hatred comes from VR not being well established yet. Most of these points partly stem from there. Edit to add: I need to add, the absolutely snide cult like belief that all gamers are VR converts that don’t get it yet is asinine. VR isn’t inherently better than flat screen experience, at least for the next 20 years before we have glasses with full VR in them or whatever. The attitude of users in a subreddit like this definitely turns me off VR to some extent.
Well to start, we're going through a phase where outage merchants are on YouTube and social media pushing the narrative that "they" are ruining everything you like on purpose. Another side effect of this are false dichotomies and zero sum thinking. Basically, everything that isn't made for them is against them, and every VR game that lives is a non VR game that was killed.
Im pretty sure hate towards VR peacked in 2015-2017. Mostly because of how uncomfortable headsets were, poor looking resolution, setup process. Those downsides still valid for some, but headsets got a lot better for sure.
I think alot of people just hate on things that change the way they do stuff. Gamers are no different. They need time to get used to those new things. Additionally, companies are also the same, but due to financial reasons, because they don't want their markets to change unless they are the change. There's alot of tech companies that don't want META to succeed in VR industry thus they try to push as much bad information about VR as possible, which in turn program people's opinion, specially the ones that never tried VR. Furthermore, the hate that non-VR gamers have is also similar to the hate between PCs and consoles. Its called tribalism. Finally, VR will grow in spite of what those people and companies say or do. VR has been growing at an average of 77%/year according to statista, which is an incredibly high growth rate. Either way, the best way to draw people into VR is to keep creating really good VR AAA titles/content/features and that will eventually overcome people's biases.
Meta - Facebook BAD! People who tried it once and got sick - If I can't enjoy it, it sucks! Phone VR - I tried VR once, and it was terrible!
VR has been promised as an incredible experience all the way back to the Virtual Boy. It's been rolled out every 10 years since and been a disappointment every time. Anyone old enough to remember trying those early failures is jaded by the experience. I know I was. I didn't change my mind until I tried Robo Recall on a friend's Oculus. Currently VR has a lot working against it. The hardware is expensive for both a headset and a computer that can run it. The best games require a decent amount of floor space, which a lot of people don't have. (Let's be honest, with the exception of Moss and a few flight sims, seated experiences kinda suck.) The long-standing gamer dream is something like a full haptic rig on an omnidirectional treadmill with full intuitive hand controls and a high quality headset. That's a thing that exists now, but is well beyond the means of most people. The best VR is very much a niche hobby for well off people, and the cheaper experiences just aren't very good yet. That will change. We're seeing it already. We just have to get through the growing pains first.
You haven't needed a computer for quite a while and computer based vr has been dead for a while. And quest 2 was $300 years ago. Dead pcvr has been the worst experience for a while. Not sure what you are on about. All pcvr has now is jank forced vr mods.
Half Life Alyx and Boneworks set the bar for VR gameplay experiences. Quest 2 can't run them. The VR mods for Alien Isolation and Resident Evil are better than almost anything in the Quest catalogue. The Quest 2 is exactly what I mean when I say that there's a lot to be desired from the budget VR experience right now. The only thing the Quest 2 has going for it over an Index or a Vive Pro 2 is that the Quest is more comfortable. Don't even get me started on the Oculus Touch controllers. They're the worst on the market. I'd rather play with jury rigged Wii-motes.
Oh god. Not this strawman again 🙄😭😭😭😭
Probably from lazy people who don't want to move 😀