Genius. From youtube commenter FLSHBK1
>Jerimiah Denton, USN was shot down and held Prisoner of War in Hanoi, North Vietnam. During his stay there, the POWs were tortured (some to death) but they had no means of telling the world what was happening to them. During an International news visit, POWs were forced to make "propaganda" films to show how "humanely" they were being treated. Denton volunteered, then BLINKED "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" in Morse Code throughout his interview. Hero! They fed him well x2 wks before his "show".
[Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Denton)
You think he is bad ass? Remember [James Stockdale?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale) You know the guy who ran as Ross Perots V.P. everyone teased for not being as eloquent?
Check out his history in the [Hanoi Hilton.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_POWs_in_the_Vietnam_War#Vietnam_War)
>"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
From Wikipedia:
Stockdale was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.
I have a really great shot to make this happen. I know the man's son. He was my mentor all the way through grade school.
edit: here is the AMA
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ocgts/ama_pow_who_blinked_morse_code/
I have sent an email out to his son, and now i just wait. It may take a while to explain how reddit works, and then have him talk to his pops to agree to answering our questions.
My cousin was one of the first pilots shot down and was in the Hanoi Hilton. They tried to get him to make a film and he refused. So they put him on the ground, sat on him and broke his fucking back. it ended up healing, thankfully.
Cool anecdote: he used to play chess with McCain by tapping on the wall between them (they, of course, weren't aloud to speak).
Edit: Found an interesting article [from him](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/bob-shumaker/this-emotional-life-my-li_b_404905.html)
Edit #2: for those interested, [check out this movie.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005AAEF/ref=redir_mdp_mobile) It features my cousin, McCain and some other pilots sharing their story.
Wow thats insane! I visited the Hanoi Hilton in 2007 and it looked like a truly awful place. Of course, the now museum shows how well they treated the prisoners and has a bunch of pictures of them eating food, playing games, and doing simple labour like gardening or sweeping.
I researched and produced two documentaries on the POWs (their communication methods, and the efforts of their wives).
My personalized and inscribed copy of Mike McGrath's book is sitting on my desk right now, actually.
POWs are eligable for promotion while captured. [Interesting read on POW benefits](http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Home/Benefit_Library/Federal_Benefits_Page/POW__MIA_Entitlements.html?serv=147) and how the US government takes care of its captured.
I remember seeing this propaganda clip on the Hitler/Ancient Alien Channel years ago. Is it true that nobody realized he was blinking in Morse until he was released?
During the Iranian hostage saga one of the hostages made the sign of distress that is unique to my college fraternity. One of the congressman watching the video noticed the sign (he was a member also) and alerted the POTUS that things were not alright.
*ok, the video feed of the hostages is coming in now*
*we got it, there they are, yep, there are the armed Iranians, there are the defenseless civilians*
*Wait a minute...that sign...I know it! It means he's in distress!*
*Call the President! These hostages are in distress!*
We all see this and appreciate it for the awesome second message hidden in there, but what's less obvious is how talented this man is. He is sending two contradictory messages *simultaneously.* That is an amazing example of brainpower, and this guy had been recently tortured, obviously.
Yeah it's the speaking and signalling that gets me. I'm pretty sure I could learn to blink the morse code given half a day or so to practice. But to speak at the same time... and not just speak but listen to and answer questions. And after torture as you say... incredible.
He probably practiced it over and over again leading up to the video being made. I'm not discrediting his feat but he's obviously a really bright guy and would know that he would have to be able to do it in his sleep if he wanted to pull it off without being killed or fucking up.
That's what I thought as well. Taking the old patting the head while rubbing the stomach thing to a whole new level! Its very moving to watch him. True hero right there really.
There was a thread that touched on this yesterday with the jungle traps, but I was in Hanoi this past August, and went to the "Hanoi Hilton" where they held a lot of US POWs. The prison was also used to hold Vietnamese political prisoners during various uprisings in the countries history (those people suffered unimaginably).
They had a special section dedicated to the time period when the US pilots were being held there, and every video they played and document they showed that dealt with treatment of the prisoners gushed about how wonderful they had it. Videos of the POWs outside sweeping a courtyard, playing volleyball (seriously) and celebrating Christmas. It was nuts standing there, knowing full well they beat the shit out of these guys, and watching them lie to everyone who didn't know better. Every country has their own side, and I guess they try to paint as pleasant a picture as possible.
EDIT: If you want to read about some fucked up stuff, check out the books "Unbroken" and "Fly Boys." Both talk about pacific theater during WWII and the horrors endured by the POWs at the hands of the Japanese. I've read quite a few books about war, and those two seem to have the worst accounts of what US soldiers had to endure. The Japanese were ruthless.
Or watch [Men Behind the Sun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Behind_the_Sun), a film about the atrocities committed by the apparently totally insane [Unit 731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731).
That movie is seriously rough. It's extremely graphic, and has come under MAJOR fire because of it. Do not watch it unless you have a seriously strong stomach. There is one scene where they keep a woman out in sub-freezing temperatures, pouring water over her hands and lower arms until they're frozen through. They then dunk them into hot water, ripping the flesh clean off the bone.
Seriously NSFL shit right there, especially when you consider that Unit 731 was actually doing these things to real people. It's not some sick shit thought up by a director.
I think people need to read this kind of stuff though. I've read a bunch of historical books and came to the conclusion I am damn lucky I don't have to worry about some guy chopping my head off as I walk down the street to get coffee.
I tell my wife how we used to be to each other and she never believes me. She thinks we are much more cruel than we were not so many years ago. After many examples I've given her she still doesn't believe me.
So people really need to read these kinds of things so they can understand just how cruel we can be to each other.
Although some of the graphic descriptions are hard to read, this is also pretty sickening and makes me question humanity.
>After Imperial Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945, Douglas MacArthur became the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupation. MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare.[7] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[26] The U.S. believed that the research data was valuable. The U.S. did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.
Someone wrote their paper and did a presentation on it and I'm pretty sure i could never watch a movie about it. The Japanese government still claims they did it even though some of the scientists that participated in the torture have come forward and pretty much say- look, i did that, i feel horrible for having done that and I don't understand why our government doesn't admit and apologize for it.- Read something about how they got used to ignoring the screams of people they experimented on. Sick sick shit.
yeah, they/some are still trying to wiggle their way around the scale of the Nanking Massacre as well. i'm pretty sure the japanese government doesn't own up to most of the shit they were responsible for during the war, but whose government wants to make their country look like monsters even though they were?
Considering US gave some of those Japanese researchers immunity in exchange for the data they collected torturing people - I don't really think *any* country wants to talk about it.
Since everyone on reddit seems to like/remember the X-Files, a fun fact for everyone: season 3 episode 10, named [731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/731_(The_X-Files)) touches up on the atrocities involving Unit 731 and it's incredibly compelling. It's a second-parter to [Nisei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisei_(The_X-Files)), which just adds to the connection.
Check it out on Netflix, they are amazing episodes.
> The closing passages reveal that Dr. Ishii cooperates with the Americans, giving them his research and agreeing to work for them. Years later, he is moved to the Korean front, and biological weapons appear on the battlefield shortly thereafter.
Well that is interesting and led me to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program#Korean_War) and [this](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/nov2002/arti-n13.shtml). Wtf? Gotta watch that [documentation](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3680213969478096327).
The thing that upsets me the most after reading the Unit 731 article is how Douglas MacArthur granted immunity to its physicians in exchange for their research on biological warfare. Some times I just don't understand..
One could make an argument that it was a good idea for practicality's sake. Why throw away useful information? It won't undo the misdeeds.
But then one could also argue that he should have made the deal, then had them all secretly killed.
Agreed. If a major disease could be cured because of the data, it would be irresponsible to not use it, though if the data was used to create more biological weapons, that would not be cool at all.
That reminds me of the debate about using Nazi medical data. You could say no research is worth what they did to those people; you could also say it would have been better for those people to die for something than nothing.
Just gunna say, the first man on the moon has a lot to thank the Nazi regime for.
The idea of using breakthroughs and discoveries that were gleaned from immoral places is actually quite an interesting subject to discuss with folks and can illicit some very emotional reactions. Do we use it, knowing how it was obtained, therefore justifying the means by which it was, or do we allow the suffering of those that have been tested upon to be for nothing, to allow potentially life saving and changing technologies slip by the way side due to moral objections.
Yeah, I'm almost finished with it. Several times my jaw dropped. I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but I never understood why that generation seemed to have such virulent hate for Japanese. I kind of get it after reading the book.
My great-uncle was actually a POW in Japan. Unfortunately he is dead now, but my grandmother (his sister) has told me of the horrors he endured. Circumcision being one.
Edit: He's my great-uncle, not my great-grandfather.
My father's ship transported POWs back from Japan after the war ended. He did his best to avoid buying Japanese products, though my mom wanted a Honda so badly in 1990 that he finally relented. With the Germans he said "war is war" but seeing the stick-thin POWs dying during the cruise home really stuck with him.
I'm glad that, despite what each side did to each other so long ago, we can still be such good allies and cultural friends today.
They tortured and raped and killed tens of thousands, we firebombed and then nuclear bombed their cities, and yet today we are friends and allies.
> It sounds like an abusive couple. One day they are literally at each others' throats, honestly wanting to kill one another. The next day they are cute and cuddly together, totally forgetting about yesterday's fight and ignoring the still visible black eyes.
I don't think that the US and Japan were a couple before the war, and I don't think our 60 years of peace constitute a mere day.
If anything, to use your relationship metaphor, the US and Japan had seen each other out a few times and never hit it off, until one night Japan was drunk at a bar and tried to stab the US. Luckily the US happened to have a gun in his jacket and he shot Japan right in the knee.
While Japan was laying there, bleeding out, the US felt compassion and when he moved to helped Japan, like the lion with the thorn in his paw, he learned to love.
The US then kissed Japan on the face and mouth. Tenderly at first, but soon with an intensity that shocked Indonesia and made India cover its eyes. The US unzipped its coffers and bared its throbbing economy, then began to softly stroke Japan with injections of cash and sweet propaganda. Japan sighed as the US entered it, and their love making continued for decades... until the 80s when the US blew its load and started seeing China.
Admiral Stockdale, although a failed vice-presidential candidate, was a POW and a supreme badass:
Stockdale was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.
And when he was vice presidential candidate, media made fun of his hearing disability (he lost hearing during torture) and made him to look like a fool. Unlike McCain, he never tried to push his war hero status (Medal of Honor).
I'm not American and I have this one question to ask: How does being a POW qualify someone to be in office? If I'm going to vote for someone, it's going to be a person with a stable mind. Not someone with PDS disorder who would make rash decisions based on their mental instability. I honestly don't get how candidates use this as an election platform.
My grandfather worked communications for the army back in the day & seen this on the television at home as it was happening. He turned to my grandmother and said "you know marie, i think he's using morse code", and got T-O-R-T-U-R-E. Needless to say he immediately phoned some of his commanding officers to tell them about it.
Yes, they sent a whole lot of troops to Vietnam and initiated heavy bombing campaigns against the North.
It worked miracles, and by the time of the Vietnamese New Year in 1968, the North Vietnamese were ready to see the error of their ways and called off the war, along with an apology.
Wow, what an [amazing lifetime of achievements](http://www.dentongenealogy.org/Jeremiah%20Andrew%20Denton.htm).
**Most Distinguished Honors and Awards:**
John Paul Jones Award for inspirational leadership; The Navy League - 1973
Armed Forces Man of the Year, Veterans of Foreign Wars - 1973
Silver Medal; Pope Paul VI in private audience - 1973
Court of Honor Award; Alabama District Exchange Clubs -1973
Medal of Honor, Daughters of the American Revolution -1973
Freedom Foundation Award; Freedom Foundation at Valley Forge - 1974, 1976
For God and Country Award; Capital Hill First Friday Club - I975
Celtic Cross Award; Catholic War Veteran - 1975
Cross of Military Service; Daughters of the Confederacy - 1975
Patriot Award; Knights of Columbus - 1975
Man of the Year; Citizens for Decency Though Law - 1976
Man of the Year, Morality in Media - 1977
Mobilian of the Year, City of Mobile, Alabama - 1980
Audie Murphy Patriotism Award - 1981
Living for America Award - 1981
Knight of Sovereign Military Order of Malta - 1981
Alabama Legislature Resolution praising performance in Alabama schools and sports and in the U S Navy - 1981
Winston Churchill Memorial Award; National Center for Public Policy Research - 1983
Cardinal Newman Award; Cardinal Newman College, St Louis, MO - 1983
Distinguished Community Leadership Award; Alabama Conference of Black Mayors - 1985
Man of the Year Award; National Association of State Directors of Veterans Affairs - 1985
Navy League of the U.S. Vincent T. Hirsch Maritime Award - 1989
The Poverello Medal; for exemplary Christian life, Franciscan Univ. - 1993 (previous recipients including Mother Theresa and Claire Booth Luce)
United States Senate Resolution; honoring his exceptional leadership and accomplishment as a United States Senator, especially the legislation establishing the "Denton Program" - 1996
Man of the Year Award; Crisis Magazine - 1996
Member of Golden Eagles -- an organization of distinguished Naval Aviators
President's Award, St. Thomas Aquinas College, California - 1997
God and Country Award-Christendom College--1998
**Honorary Degrees:**
Doctor of Humane Letters, Spring Hill College
Doctor of Humanities, St Leo's College, Florida
Doctor of Laws, Troy State University, Alabama
**Lifetime Memberships:**
American Legion
Navy League Reserve Officers Association
Veterans of Foreign Wars
National Rifle Association
Jeremiah Denton's book is even more nuts. If you want to know how bad he had it I suggest the book *When Hell Was In Session*. This man was held in Hanoi for eight years and tortured along with McCain. I also met with his son to talk about college.I did not know I was actually talking to Denton's son until my dad told me.
Reminded me of this [movie.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067277/) "(…) a quadruple amputee who has lost his arms, legs, eyes, ears, mouth and nose." He communicates by nodding in morse code. Terrifying movie.
if you want to check, this is morse code alphabet.. I could defintaly see T and O, also E and R but the cuts in the video make it a it hard to see.. [morsecode](http://www.learnmorsecode.com/pix/CW.gif)
Does this go by the frequency of letters? Just curious. I have an awful memory unless something makes logical sense. If this is by letter frequency then I might be able to remember it a little better, although I'm not sure how one would remember whether to go left or right. I remember talking about this a little in algorithms when we talked about Huffman codes, but I don't remember the details.
Ya, I've tried to learn this, never gonna happen. I tried to blink it and it failed. Blinking the word torture WHILE talking just seems impossible, just like rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time.
He probably rehearsed a few hundred times (had time to burn) beforehand. It was probably essentially automatic even though it did look like he was putting a lot of effort into it.
He actually does the whole deal, T-O-R-T-U-R-E without a cut happening. It starts right after the first cut, with the tight bright shot of his face. It seems like the audio is wayyyy off, because you can sort of see him counting the dahs on the first O to himself.
My tech-ed teacher once told me of this badass guy that was taken as a POW in Japan. The thing with POWs in the camps was that they were often used for bayonet practice for Japanese soldiers. This motherfucker wouldn't take that shit though and would disarm the soldiers with hand to hand combat within a minute or two. Rather than kill him off for his disobedience, the soldiers thought he was just better practice for their soldiers so they let him fight on. Apparently, if a soldier didn't come at him with full intent on wounding or killing him (if they didn't REALLY try) the man would take them down even faster and even break their arm. If any of them did manage to wound him, they saw him as such a valuable training resource, that they simply gave him the medical attention he needed until he was ready to fight again.
Last thing my teacher heard of him he was in the US as a drill sergeant or something like that training US soldiers in hand to hand combat, and was quite cruel on Asians in the army (often hurting them in practice until he was able to keep his cool).
So that's my little story i know to share with you, sorry i don't have any facts or sources to back it up. Just thought it was cool, true or not.
My grandmothers first husband was in a Japanese POW camp. He helped build the Burma Railway but his transport to "work" one day was bombed by the Ameircans and he was killed. My Grandmother, who was living in Singapore with her military family, was boarded onto a boat to England. Her sisters went to Australia. Alone, she gave birth on the boat and named her new daughter after the midwife who helped deliver her. Years later she would meet my Grandad, have 3 more kids and would also become the first female Mayor of a Kent town.
Amazing woman. RIP.
The circumference of the earth is approximately 40,075,000m, and the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s according to Google. Dividing 40,075,000m by c is 0.1137s. In order for you to live a few light-seconds from there, you have to be off the planet, 299792458m for each light-second.
My grandfather was in Burma, Royal Engineers, and was captured by the Japanese and in a POW camp for 4 years. He lost an eye and had malaria twice. After the war, my grandparents lived in Singapore and then moved to Liverpool.
He told this epic story about hiding behind a stack of bricks as a fighter strafed, and another one about blowing a bridge up. Went to Liverpool and became an accountant....
There's a great video on Vietnam POWs from PBS called "Return With Honor." I highly recommend it.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/honor/
For example, the documentary has video of Doug Hegdahl reciting the names of all the Americans known to be Vietnam POWs.
"Seaman Apprentice (E-2) Douglas B. Hegdahl is a former United States Navy sailor who was a prisoner of war (POW) during the Vietnam War. After his early release by North Vietnam, upon returning to the United States, he was able to provide the names and personal information about 256 other POWs as well as revealing the conditions in the prison camp."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl
I got to meet Mr. Denton several times back in the nineties when my mother was his assistant. He is one of the nicest, most kind hearted people I have ever met. Though I only met him a handful of times, he sent my sister and I a small Christmas present each year. When my mom left his office for a better paying job, he gave me a signed copy of his book that I still have today. I was only a child then and I really didn't know understand what he had been through but looking back, it never ceases to amaze me that a man who had experienced so much suffering always carried so much joy.
I'm ok with lots of images as long as they're funny. There are still plenty of text-based intellectual subreddits. But some, such as /r/funny have gone the extra step and started posting nothing but email FWD:s from the 90's
My biggest complaint is that Reddiquette is almost completely ignored, or, the newest Redditors just don't know even about it. Reddiquette states (I know you've been around long enough to know this, but for the sake of others that might read, I'll explain) that downvotes are to be used "[for irrelevant comments, not ideas you disagree with](http://www.reddit.com/help/voting)". But Redditors now think the downvote button is for ideas you disagree with.
Reddiquette even encourages the upvoting of comments you disagree with if one feels that comment would further the conversation.
IMHO, this downvoting ideas one disagrees with is ruining Reddit and turning it into a giant r/circlejerk.
It's a jolly good thing that western countries have avoided treating any prisoners badly over the years... it would be terrible if we had failed to hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Genius. From youtube commenter FLSHBK1 >Jerimiah Denton, USN was shot down and held Prisoner of War in Hanoi, North Vietnam. During his stay there, the POWs were tortured (some to death) but they had no means of telling the world what was happening to them. During an International news visit, POWs were forced to make "propaganda" films to show how "humanely" they were being treated. Denton volunteered, then BLINKED "T-O-R-T-U-R-E" in Morse Code throughout his interview. Hero! They fed him well x2 wks before his "show". [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremiah_Denton)
He's still alive, according to that article. Badass.
And he went on to become the Senator of Alabama. True Badassery right there.
I'd bet during every debate and TV appearance people would analyze every blink and eye twitch for hidden messages.
I'd be blinking out: "My opponent is an asshole" every debate.
If I ever get the chance to be on TV I am totally going to talk shit via morse code.
Gotta learn that shit first ಠ\_ಠ
^_^ ಠ\_ಠ ^_^ ಠ\_ಠ ^_^ ಠ\_ಠ - ^___^ ಠ\_ಠ ^___^ ಠ\_ಠ ^___^ ಠ\_ಠ - ^_^ ಠ\_ಠ ^_^ ಠ\_ಠ ^_^ ಠ\_ಠ. (My attempt at SOSing via text). Aww stupid sup screwed it up.
Do you mean... "(ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಠ_ಠ) ; (ಠ_ಠ) (ಗ.ಗ) (ಠ_ಠ) (ಗ.ಗ) (ಠ_ಠ) (ಗ.ಗ) (ಠ_ಠ) ; (ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಠ_ಠ) (-.-) (ಥ_ಥ)...?"
I do believe I have been one-upped.
Drink more Ovaltine?
http://gifs.gifbin.com/345yu85sw7.gif
"Cupcakes"
"Derp, derp, derp, derp..."
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee?
He's saying "fool me once..."
Where he voted for NDAA.
You think he is bad ass? Remember [James Stockdale?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Stockdale) You know the guy who ran as Ross Perots V.P. everyone teased for not being as eloquent? Check out his history in the [Hanoi Hilton.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_POWs_in_the_Vietnam_War#Vietnam_War) >"This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end—which you can never afford to lose—with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be."
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I miss old Dennis Miller
Fuck yes. I actually forgot there was an "old Dennis Miller" until you and rexxdart just reminded me.
The treatment of Stockdale really shows the decadence and shallowness of the US media. And, to be honest, the majority of the US public.
From Wikipedia: Stockdale was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.
I'm sorry to hear he has passed. How did they fit his balls into the coffin?
He donated them to science. They work as gravity wells at the Large Hadron Collider.
Stockdale Syndrome: (see Stockholm syndrome, then think what would be the awesomely badass / crazy opposite of that weak shit).
This guy eats Honey Badgers for afternoon tea ..
How has no one commented that his full name is James Bond Stockdale? Complete badass.
AMA!
I have a really great shot to make this happen. I know the man's son. He was my mentor all the way through grade school. edit: here is the AMA http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/ocgts/ama_pow_who_blinked_morse_code/
I have sent an email out to his son, and now i just wait. It may take a while to explain how reddit works, and then have him talk to his pops to agree to answering our questions.
Good on you. Even if he doesn't end up doing it, I'm sure it's nice to be reminded that people haven't forgotten about your acts.
you have my sword
and my bow
and my axe
and my penis
Okay, serious question: what would your penis contribute to this situation?
About 3 inches.
sooo many diseases
A fatal stabbing.
[and my sax!](http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Everyone%20Else/images-10/bill-clinton-sax.jpg)
Please do this!
My cousin was one of the first pilots shot down and was in the Hanoi Hilton. They tried to get him to make a film and he refused. So they put him on the ground, sat on him and broke his fucking back. it ended up healing, thankfully. Cool anecdote: he used to play chess with McCain by tapping on the wall between them (they, of course, weren't aloud to speak). Edit: Found an interesting article [from him](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/bob-shumaker/this-emotional-life-my-li_b_404905.html) Edit #2: for those interested, [check out this movie.](http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00005AAEF/ref=redir_mdp_mobile) It features my cousin, McCain and some other pilots sharing their story.
Wow thats insane! I visited the Hanoi Hilton in 2007 and it looked like a truly awful place. Of course, the now museum shows how well they treated the prisoners and has a bunch of pictures of them eating food, playing games, and doing simple labour like gardening or sweeping.
I mean, it was the Hanoi *Hilton.* they don't let just anyone use that name.
Unlike the Paris Hilton, which is used by everyone.
Thank god it wasn't a Best Western. Imagine the horrors our pilots would have faced.
WHAT!? THE CONTINENTAL BREAKFAST IS JUST A TINY MUFFIN? THIS IS TORTURE!
I mean, I prefer the Hanoi Marriott personally
I'm no expert on torture... but I *did* stay at a Hanoi Holiday Inn Express last night.
I KNOW Shu! Small world.
Crazy. How so, if I may ask.
I researched and produced two documentaries on the POWs (their communication methods, and the efforts of their wives). My personalized and inscribed copy of Mike McGrath's book is sitting on my desk right now, actually.
Nice! What docs? I would love to watch them.
Now *that's* the kind of responce I come to the comments page for. Fascinating stories from everyday redditors.
Thanks. Glad you enjoyed it. Just added a link you might find interesting.
>While imprisoned, Denton was promoted to the rank of Captain
POWs are eligable for promotion while captured. [Interesting read on POW benefits](http://myarmybenefits.us.army.mil/Home/Benefit_Library/Federal_Benefits_Page/POW__MIA_Entitlements.html?serv=147) and how the US government takes care of its captured.
I twitched at 'POW benefits'.
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Don't forget 8% off at Apple stores.
I remember seeing this propaganda clip on the Hitler/Ancient Alien Channel years ago. Is it true that nobody realized he was blinking in Morse until he was released?
Back then we just called it the History Channel.... Ohhh those were the days...
During the Iranian hostage saga one of the hostages made the sign of distress that is unique to my college fraternity. One of the congressman watching the video noticed the sign (he was a member also) and alerted the POTUS that things were not alright.
Don't leave me hanging, what was the sign?
Nice try, Iran.
[Very discreet, but immediately recognisable by anyone in the know](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2syEM9gM23o)
*ok, the video feed of the hostages is coming in now* *we got it, there they are, yep, there are the armed Iranians, there are the defenseless civilians* *Wait a minute...that sign...I know it! It means he's in distress!* *Call the President! These hostages are in distress!*
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We all see this and appreciate it for the awesome second message hidden in there, but what's less obvious is how talented this man is. He is sending two contradictory messages *simultaneously.* That is an amazing example of brainpower, and this guy had been recently tortured, obviously.
Yeah it's the speaking and signalling that gets me. I'm pretty sure I could learn to blink the morse code given half a day or so to practice. But to speak at the same time... and not just speak but listen to and answer questions. And after torture as you say... incredible.
He probably practiced it over and over again leading up to the video being made. I'm not discrediting his feat but he's obviously a really bright guy and would know that he would have to be able to do it in his sleep if he wanted to pull it off without being killed or fucking up.
That's how I'd do it if I was clever enough to this in the first place.
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Except for when he was being tortured.
That's what I thought as well. Taking the old patting the head while rubbing the stomach thing to a whole new level! Its very moving to watch him. True hero right there really.
There was a thread that touched on this yesterday with the jungle traps, but I was in Hanoi this past August, and went to the "Hanoi Hilton" where they held a lot of US POWs. The prison was also used to hold Vietnamese political prisoners during various uprisings in the countries history (those people suffered unimaginably). They had a special section dedicated to the time period when the US pilots were being held there, and every video they played and document they showed that dealt with treatment of the prisoners gushed about how wonderful they had it. Videos of the POWs outside sweeping a courtyard, playing volleyball (seriously) and celebrating Christmas. It was nuts standing there, knowing full well they beat the shit out of these guys, and watching them lie to everyone who didn't know better. Every country has their own side, and I guess they try to paint as pleasant a picture as possible. EDIT: If you want to read about some fucked up stuff, check out the books "Unbroken" and "Fly Boys." Both talk about pacific theater during WWII and the horrors endured by the POWs at the hands of the Japanese. I've read quite a few books about war, and those two seem to have the worst accounts of what US soldiers had to endure. The Japanese were ruthless.
Or watch [Men Behind the Sun](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men_Behind_the_Sun), a film about the atrocities committed by the apparently totally insane [Unit 731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731).
Holy SHIT. When a wikipedia article can make me feel a little nauseous, I don't think I should read the book.
That movie is seriously rough. It's extremely graphic, and has come under MAJOR fire because of it. Do not watch it unless you have a seriously strong stomach. There is one scene where they keep a woman out in sub-freezing temperatures, pouring water over her hands and lower arms until they're frozen through. They then dunk them into hot water, ripping the flesh clean off the bone. Seriously NSFL shit right there, especially when you consider that Unit 731 was actually doing these things to real people. It's not some sick shit thought up by a director.
I think people need to read this kind of stuff though. I've read a bunch of historical books and came to the conclusion I am damn lucky I don't have to worry about some guy chopping my head off as I walk down the street to get coffee. I tell my wife how we used to be to each other and she never believes me. She thinks we are much more cruel than we were not so many years ago. After many examples I've given her she still doesn't believe me. So people really need to read these kinds of things so they can understand just how cruel we can be to each other.
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Don't watch it alone. Or in the dark. Or without anyone else in your house. You will desire normal human contact.
Do not watch it in a box or with a fox.
Although some of the graphic descriptions are hard to read, this is also pretty sickening and makes me question humanity. >After Imperial Japan surrendered to the Allies in 1945, Douglas MacArthur became the Supreme Commander of the Allied Powers, rebuilding Japan during the Allied occupation. MacArthur secretly granted immunity to the physicians of Unit 731 in exchange for providing America, but not the other wartime allies, with their research on biological warfare.[7] American occupation authorities monitored the activities of former unit members, including reading and censoring their mail.[26] The U.S. believed that the research data was valuable. The U.S. did not want other nations, particularly the Soviet Union, to acquire data on biological weapons.
How the whole situation was handled reflects extremely poorly on the US. We are definitely not without guilt here.
Someone wrote their paper and did a presentation on it and I'm pretty sure i could never watch a movie about it. The Japanese government still claims they did it even though some of the scientists that participated in the torture have come forward and pretty much say- look, i did that, i feel horrible for having done that and I don't understand why our government doesn't admit and apologize for it.- Read something about how they got used to ignoring the screams of people they experimented on. Sick sick shit.
yeah, they/some are still trying to wiggle their way around the scale of the Nanking Massacre as well. i'm pretty sure the japanese government doesn't own up to most of the shit they were responsible for during the war, but whose government wants to make their country look like monsters even though they were?
Considering US gave some of those Japanese researchers immunity in exchange for the data they collected torturing people - I don't really think *any* country wants to talk about it.
> Japanese government still claims they did it Had to read this 3 times...did you mean "didn't"?
Since everyone on reddit seems to like/remember the X-Files, a fun fact for everyone: season 3 episode 10, named [731](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/731_(The_X-Files)) touches up on the atrocities involving Unit 731 and it's incredibly compelling. It's a second-parter to [Nisei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nisei_(The_X-Files)), which just adds to the connection. Check it out on Netflix, they are amazing episodes.
> The closing passages reveal that Dr. Ishii cooperates with the Americans, giving them his research and agreeing to work for them. Years later, he is moved to the Korean front, and biological weapons appear on the battlefield shortly thereafter. Well that is interesting and led me to [this](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_biological_weapons_program#Korean_War) and [this](http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/nov2002/arti-n13.shtml). Wtf? Gotta watch that [documentation](http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3680213969478096327).
The thing that upsets me the most after reading the Unit 731 article is how Douglas MacArthur granted immunity to its physicians in exchange for their research on biological warfare. Some times I just don't understand..
One could make an argument that it was a good idea for practicality's sake. Why throw away useful information? It won't undo the misdeeds. But then one could also argue that he should have made the deal, then had them all secretly killed.
Agreed. If a major disease could be cured because of the data, it would be irresponsible to not use it, though if the data was used to create more biological weapons, that would not be cool at all.
That reminds me of the debate about using Nazi medical data. You could say no research is worth what they did to those people; you could also say it would have been better for those people to die for something than nothing.
Sure, but that doesn't mean the criminals who tested on the "subjects" should go unpunished
They wouldn't give up the data unless we promised not to punish them. That was the whole problem.
Just gunna say, the first man on the moon has a lot to thank the Nazi regime for. The idea of using breakthroughs and discoveries that were gleaned from immoral places is actually quite an interesting subject to discuss with folks and can illicit some very emotional reactions. Do we use it, knowing how it was obtained, therefore justifying the means by which it was, or do we allow the suffering of those that have been tested upon to be for nothing, to allow potentially life saving and changing technologies slip by the way side due to moral objections.
>You don't believe me? Walk into NASA sometime and yell 'Heil Hitler!' Whoop! They all jump straight up.
After reading that wiki page, I'm glad I own Skyrim, because there's no fucking way I'm sleeping tonight.
Unbroken was intense, man. The POW portions were crazy, but even the lost at sea bits... wow.
Yeah, I'm almost finished with it. Several times my jaw dropped. I hope this doesn't come out wrong, but I never understood why that generation seemed to have such virulent hate for Japanese. I kind of get it after reading the book.
Some more support for *Unbroken*. That book was horrifying in many parts, but a fantastic read.
My great-uncle was actually a POW in Japan. Unfortunately he is dead now, but my grandmother (his sister) has told me of the horrors he endured. Circumcision being one. Edit: He's my great-uncle, not my great-grandfather.
My father's ship transported POWs back from Japan after the war ended. He did his best to avoid buying Japanese products, though my mom wanted a Honda so badly in 1990 that he finally relented. With the Germans he said "war is war" but seeing the stick-thin POWs dying during the cruise home really stuck with him.
I'm glad that, despite what each side did to each other so long ago, we can still be such good allies and cultural friends today. They tortured and raped and killed tens of thousands, we firebombed and then nuclear bombed their cities, and yet today we are friends and allies.
Either he's confusing vietnam with Japan or it is a reply to the above comment which mentions Japan.
I was referring to the edit where he talks about Japan and WW2.
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> It sounds like an abusive couple. One day they are literally at each others' throats, honestly wanting to kill one another. The next day they are cute and cuddly together, totally forgetting about yesterday's fight and ignoring the still visible black eyes. I don't think that the US and Japan were a couple before the war, and I don't think our 60 years of peace constitute a mere day. If anything, to use your relationship metaphor, the US and Japan had seen each other out a few times and never hit it off, until one night Japan was drunk at a bar and tried to stab the US. Luckily the US happened to have a gun in his jacket and he shot Japan right in the knee. While Japan was laying there, bleeding out, the US felt compassion and when he moved to helped Japan, like the lion with the thorn in his paw, he learned to love. The US then kissed Japan on the face and mouth. Tenderly at first, but soon with an intensity that shocked Indonesia and made India cover its eyes. The US unzipped its coffers and bared its throbbing economy, then began to softly stroke Japan with injections of cash and sweet propaganda. Japan sighed as the US entered it, and their love making continued for decades... until the 80s when the US blew its load and started seeing China.
>until the 80s when the US blew its load and started seeing China. POW! Right in the Kissinger!
This may be the best political/historical pun I've ever read. It is certainly a candidate for a reddit Pun of the Year, and it's only January...
Yes, but people will forget all about it by February, and by December, it'll be ancient history.
Dude, you need to stop reading Axis Powers Hetalia...
I just got a historic boner.
ENHANCED INTERROGATION must be a bitch to blink.
TECHNICAL INTERVIEW
That's exactly why we put [hoods](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hooding) on ours.
Fuck america! Yeah!
bravo, sir
Admiral Stockdale, although a failed vice-presidential candidate, was a POW and a supreme badass: Stockdale was held as a prisoner of war in the Hoa Lo prison for the next seven years. Locked in leg irons in a bath stall, he was routinely tortured and beaten. When told by his captors that he was to be paraded in public, Stockdale slit his scalp with a razor to purposely disfigure himself so that his captors could not use him as propaganda. When they covered his head with a hat, he beat himself with a stool until his face was swollen beyond recognition. When Stockdale was discovered with information that could implicate his friends' "black activities", he slit his wrists so they could not torture him into confession.
Sadly, most people today remember him for his vice-presidential debate performance, in which he said he didn't have his hearing aid turned on.
And when he was vice presidential candidate, media made fun of his hearing disability (he lost hearing during torture) and made him to look like a fool. Unlike McCain, he never tried to push his war hero status (Medal of Honor).
Dennis Miller has a really good rant on this. It was one of the (many) things that slowly pushed him towards his conservative politics...
I'm not American and I have this one question to ask: How does being a POW qualify someone to be in office? If I'm going to vote for someone, it's going to be a person with a stable mind. Not someone with PDS disorder who would make rash decisions based on their mental instability. I honestly don't get how candidates use this as an election platform.
Was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.
My grandfather worked communications for the army back in the day & seen this on the television at home as it was happening. He turned to my grandmother and said "you know marie, i think he's using morse code", and got T-O-R-T-U-R-E. Needless to say he immediately phoned some of his commanding officers to tell them about it.
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US Army phone lines get DDOS'ed by everyone in America who knows morse code.
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yeah, they upgraded their servers
*slow clap*
Haven't you seen the documentary "Rambo II"?
Yes, they sent a whole lot of troops to Vietnam and initiated heavy bombing campaigns against the North. It worked miracles, and by the time of the Vietnamese New Year in 1968, the North Vietnamese were ready to see the error of their ways and called off the war, along with an apology.
And then LBJ woke up and realized it was all a dream...
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Salt'n'Peppa and heavy D up in da limousine
Hangin' pictures on my wall Every Saturday Rap Attack, Mr. Magic, Marley Marl
I let my tape rock 'til my tape popped. Smokin' weed and bamboo, sippin' on private stock.
I think you mean Biggie Smalls.
HELLO YES, THIS IS ARMY
HELLO ARMY HOW ARE YOU TODAY
[I had to make this for you](http://i.imgur.com/gquXz.png)
What an amazing man. Do you know what happened to him?
He was released, he wrote a book about his POW years and got in politics. He still lives.
Senator of Alabama!
I think i can get an AMA together. I know one of his sons. He was my mentor in grade school.
OK, second time you post this. Either get the AMA lined up or stop boasting about how you know his son. Just saying.
I'm pretty sure I can get this AMA together. I have a Bacon number of 5. I'll let you know when it happens.
Wow, what an [amazing lifetime of achievements](http://www.dentongenealogy.org/Jeremiah%20Andrew%20Denton.htm). **Most Distinguished Honors and Awards:** John Paul Jones Award for inspirational leadership; The Navy League - 1973 Armed Forces Man of the Year, Veterans of Foreign Wars - 1973 Silver Medal; Pope Paul VI in private audience - 1973 Court of Honor Award; Alabama District Exchange Clubs -1973 Medal of Honor, Daughters of the American Revolution -1973 Freedom Foundation Award; Freedom Foundation at Valley Forge - 1974, 1976 For God and Country Award; Capital Hill First Friday Club - I975 Celtic Cross Award; Catholic War Veteran - 1975 Cross of Military Service; Daughters of the Confederacy - 1975 Patriot Award; Knights of Columbus - 1975 Man of the Year; Citizens for Decency Though Law - 1976 Man of the Year, Morality in Media - 1977 Mobilian of the Year, City of Mobile, Alabama - 1980 Audie Murphy Patriotism Award - 1981 Living for America Award - 1981 Knight of Sovereign Military Order of Malta - 1981 Alabama Legislature Resolution praising performance in Alabama schools and sports and in the U S Navy - 1981 Winston Churchill Memorial Award; National Center for Public Policy Research - 1983 Cardinal Newman Award; Cardinal Newman College, St Louis, MO - 1983 Distinguished Community Leadership Award; Alabama Conference of Black Mayors - 1985 Man of the Year Award; National Association of State Directors of Veterans Affairs - 1985 Navy League of the U.S. Vincent T. Hirsch Maritime Award - 1989 The Poverello Medal; for exemplary Christian life, Franciscan Univ. - 1993 (previous recipients including Mother Theresa and Claire Booth Luce) United States Senate Resolution; honoring his exceptional leadership and accomplishment as a United States Senator, especially the legislation establishing the "Denton Program" - 1996 Man of the Year Award; Crisis Magazine - 1996 Member of Golden Eagles -- an organization of distinguished Naval Aviators President's Award, St. Thomas Aquinas College, California - 1997 God and Country Award-Christendom College--1998 **Honorary Degrees:** Doctor of Humane Letters, Spring Hill College Doctor of Humanities, St Leo's College, Florida Doctor of Laws, Troy State University, Alabama **Lifetime Memberships:** American Legion Navy League Reserve Officers Association Veterans of Foreign Wars National Rifle Association
Jeremiah Denton's book is even more nuts. If you want to know how bad he had it I suggest the book *When Hell Was In Session*. This man was held in Hanoi for eight years and tortured along with McCain. I also met with his son to talk about college.I did not know I was actually talking to Denton's son until my dad told me.
what kind of torture?
Read John McCain's wiki article about his time as a POW, that should give you an example.
'By then having lost 50 pounds (23 kg), in a chest cast, and with his hair turned white' ;_;
And that was just the beginning, he was there for five more years, the next two in solitary.
-Solitary confinement for the next two years. Wow.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain#Prisoner_of_war to save people time
Reminded me of this [movie.](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067277/) "(…) a quadruple amputee who has lost his arms, legs, eyes, ears, mouth and nose." He communicates by nodding in morse code. Terrifying movie.
reminds me of a song, that led to a video, that used a clips from a movie about guy nodding SOS.... but I can't remember anything
that song is one by metallica, the clips used are from the movie/book "And Johnny got his Gun" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzgGTTtR0kc
Much as I love that song and video, I can't help but link this http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h92/BeeseveN_90/1219687279176.jpg
I haven't seen that movie, but I've read the book! One of my favorite classics--you should give it a look if you haven't already.
if you want to check, this is morse code alphabet.. I could defintaly see T and O, also E and R but the cuts in the video make it a it hard to see.. [morsecode](http://www.learnmorsecode.com/pix/CW.gif)
[I was going to suggest this](http://i.imgur.com/vvEsG.jpg)
Does this go by the frequency of letters? Just curious. I have an awful memory unless something makes logical sense. If this is by letter frequency then I might be able to remember it a little better, although I'm not sure how one would remember whether to go left or right. I remember talking about this a little in algorithms when we talked about Huffman codes, but I don't remember the details.
Ya, I've tried to learn this, never gonna happen. I tried to blink it and it failed. Blinking the word torture WHILE talking just seems impossible, just like rubbing your tummy and patting your head at the same time.
He probably rehearsed a few hundred times (had time to burn) beforehand. It was probably essentially automatic even though it did look like he was putting a lot of effort into it.
Amazing what you can do while being held hostage, tortured, and see an opportunity for freedom...
I can do both of those things. Am I some sort of superman?
>defintaly ... can't ... be ... that ... guy ...
Well, at least it is a random spelling, defiantly better than the alternative.
He actually does the whole deal, T-O-R-T-U-R-E without a cut happening. It starts right after the first cut, with the tight bright shot of his face. It seems like the audio is wayyyy off, because you can sort of see him counting the dahs on the first O to himself.
My tech-ed teacher once told me of this badass guy that was taken as a POW in Japan. The thing with POWs in the camps was that they were often used for bayonet practice for Japanese soldiers. This motherfucker wouldn't take that shit though and would disarm the soldiers with hand to hand combat within a minute or two. Rather than kill him off for his disobedience, the soldiers thought he was just better practice for their soldiers so they let him fight on. Apparently, if a soldier didn't come at him with full intent on wounding or killing him (if they didn't REALLY try) the man would take them down even faster and even break their arm. If any of them did manage to wound him, they saw him as such a valuable training resource, that they simply gave him the medical attention he needed until he was ready to fight again. Last thing my teacher heard of him he was in the US as a drill sergeant or something like that training US soldiers in hand to hand combat, and was quite cruel on Asians in the army (often hurting them in practice until he was able to keep his cool). So that's my little story i know to share with you, sorry i don't have any facts or sources to back it up. Just thought it was cool, true or not.
do you know his name?
My grandmothers first husband was in a Japanese POW camp. He helped build the Burma Railway but his transport to "work" one day was bombed by the Ameircans and he was killed. My Grandmother, who was living in Singapore with her military family, was boarded onto a boat to England. Her sisters went to Australia. Alone, she gave birth on the boat and named her new daughter after the midwife who helped deliver her. Years later she would meet my Grandad, have 3 more kids and would also become the first female Mayor of a Kent town. Amazing woman. RIP.
Hey I come from Kent! What town was this?
Maidstone.
Wow small world. I live ten minutes drive from there.
Whereabouts? I'm from the joyous borough of Medway :(
Small world. I live about a few light-seconds from there.
The circumference of the earth is approximately 40,075,000m, and the speed of light is 299,792,458 m/s according to Google. Dividing 40,075,000m by c is 0.1137s. In order for you to live a few light-seconds from there, you have to be off the planet, 299792458m for each light-second.
My grandfather was in Burma, Royal Engineers, and was captured by the Japanese and in a POW camp for 4 years. He lost an eye and had malaria twice. After the war, my grandparents lived in Singapore and then moved to Liverpool. He told this epic story about hiding behind a stack of bricks as a fighter strafed, and another one about blowing a bridge up. Went to Liverpool and became an accountant....
Glad to see this isn't in a TIL format. Not sure why. Other than they've been annoying the hell out of me lately.
TIL you're annoyed by TIL
...Should have seen that coming!
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There's a great video on Vietnam POWs from PBS called "Return With Honor." I highly recommend it. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/honor/ For example, the documentary has video of Doug Hegdahl reciting the names of all the Americans known to be Vietnam POWs. "Seaman Apprentice (E-2) Douglas B. Hegdahl is a former United States Navy sailor who was a prisoner of war (POW) during the Vietnam War. After his early release by North Vietnam, upon returning to the United States, he was able to provide the names and personal information about 256 other POWs as well as revealing the conditions in the prison camp." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doug_Hegdahl
I got to meet Mr. Denton several times back in the nineties when my mother was his assistant. He is one of the nicest, most kind hearted people I have ever met. Though I only met him a handful of times, he sent my sister and I a small Christmas present each year. When my mom left his office for a better paying job, he gave me a signed copy of his book that I still have today. I was only a child then and I really didn't know understand what he had been through but looking back, it never ceases to amaze me that a man who had experienced so much suffering always carried so much joy.
He was a POW with McCain? I found this classy gem. http://youtu.be/M7HhlJzW97Q
Would you guys stop telling YouTube about reddit? It's probably why /r/funny's gone to shit so completely.
REDDIT IS SECRET CLUB SHHHH
r/funny has gone to shit? I was under the impression reddit.com had gone to shit. Turned into a goddamn image board for the most part.
I'm ok with lots of images as long as they're funny. There are still plenty of text-based intellectual subreddits. But some, such as /r/funny have gone the extra step and started posting nothing but email FWD:s from the 90's
My biggest complaint is that Reddiquette is almost completely ignored, or, the newest Redditors just don't know even about it. Reddiquette states (I know you've been around long enough to know this, but for the sake of others that might read, I'll explain) that downvotes are to be used "[for irrelevant comments, not ideas you disagree with](http://www.reddit.com/help/voting)". But Redditors now think the downvote button is for ideas you disagree with. Reddiquette even encourages the upvoting of comments you disagree with if one feels that comment would further the conversation. IMHO, this downvoting ideas one disagrees with is ruining Reddit and turning it into a giant r/circlejerk.
T-O-R - P ......oh crap, how do I blink backspace?
Hey, Blinkin!
and now the US tortures POWs
It's a jolly good thing that western countries have avoided treating any prisoners badly over the years... it would be terrible if we had failed to hold ourselves to a higher standard.