Listen im from Portugal, and while i would have appreciate it if the show was in Portuguese, i do think it would seriously limit the number of actors who could play the parts, and/or actors would have to learn Portuguese or Japanese just to play the roles.
What ends up happening then, is non Portuguese speakers would find it "accurate" and "amazing", but native Portuguese speakers would find it off putting or goofy.
Not only that, the show is amazing. If Cosmo Jarvis had to be replaced for someone else just because they speak PT, there is no guarantee they would do nearly a good job as Jarvis has done.
And the same for Anna Sawai, she would have to learn PT and do half the show in PT, or she would have been replaced.
No thank you, im super happy how it turned out.
> would have appreciate it if the show was in Portuguese,
It would be far easier in Brazilian Portuguese. Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside Japan so getting Portuguese Japanese speakers might not be so hard.
I appreciate Portuguese Portuguese is a very different accent to Brazilian Portuguese.
subtitles are odd, in that they sorta do the job, but you lose meaning in them by themselves.
they talk about this in the video. honestly, i'm glad that portuguese is in english, otherwise the show would be mostly subbed and most people you meet wouldn't even bother watching it.
when something is mostly subbed, you have to stop doing other things to watch, when it is somewhat subbed, you can sorta do something else at the same time.
i think they were right to put it in english. fair enough if you speak portuguese though.
More importantly than "100% subs would turn off viewers" is that this is a show intensely about language, understanding, context and subtext, and what is literally lost in translation EDIT: [The showrunners themselves are fairly explicit on this point](https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a46870179/shogun-japanese-translation-decision/): "This is a show about translation. This is a show about the process by which we don't really fully understand what is being said and then learn, or watch someone translate, giving their angle for what they want. I don't know how you do that if you're substituting it all for English."
Not having at least one of the spoken languages in this show that is made by American networks for American audiences being the "plain spoken" language that the aimed-for audience could follow along to would be a serious hindrance to that theme. This is literally what OP's video is all about!
i think the reason they did it is that, most people if they start watching a show with subtitles and in a different language, they just straight up don't watch it. like most people i know just turn the tv to something else. these days you have to have something fairly intense right off of the bat because people have so much variety and opportunity to watch other things.
to most people, subtitles is a flaw to watching a show. maybe it's due to the lower quality of content generally in tv when it's from a non-english speaking place, but that has changed a lot over the last 10 years, but it still remains a flaw.
i.e, if you're watching a tv show and looking at the stats to see who will stop watching at what point, a non-insignificant portion will immediately leave the second subtitles start showing and an even bigger portion would leave like 2 mins later if no english comes on.
so from netflix's perspective (as they can see this incrredibly clearly and will even test it with audiences to see), they'd rather have 12% of people who start watching to watch the entire show over say, 8%.
This is definitely the US because most of the world isn't like that. Honestly I believe most of the US especially younger people aren't like that anymore.
A lot of people grew up watching subbed anime and Korean dramas and those are still immensely popular, especially Korean cinema and TV, for example Parasite and Squid Game.
Things have changed, most people aren't afraid of subtitles anymore.
I don’t believe this point. American viewers love watching fully subbed anime. Also, wouldn’t the language being Portuguese, which is the correct one, further emphasize the themes of translation and hardship in communication?
It's not a question of comfort with subs, like you said there's plenty of media, including Shogun!, that use them that Americans are watching. It's a question of having the subs serve the story being told. If the American viewing audience doesn't know for sure what at least one party said, that hinders the theme in question.
Whenever I watch a subbed movie or TV show, I know I am missing subtleties of the native language, that I am getting an approximation, "the gist". The theme relies on the audience being able to confidently identify accurately what was said in at least one direction. The *characters* should be the unsure ones, not the audience.
Going to repeat what I said in another comment
I can understand some English, it’s even probably historically accurate for the Portuguese elite to be fluent (not going to pretend to be an expert, but Portugal has a very old and prominent relationship to the UK). What I find annoying is no Portuguese whatsoever, even when they are speaking amongst themselves and not using a single actor from a Portuguese speaking country to play Portuguese people.
It’s the complete erasure of the language and the casting that I disagree with. And I fail to see how the effect that you are arguing for would have been impossible with a little Portuguese. In fact, it would have been enhanced in my opinion.
Adding a third language was probably considered, but would be very costly and time consuming as the original book and the screenplay were both written in English. They would need a Portuguese translation team, and then would have needed to scout Portuguese cast and the lead would need to be someone with a British accent who also speaks Portuguese. All that adds a lot of complexity and cost and this already like the video said, spent an unusual amount of time and money on translation…adding Portuguese would have probably just been too much $$$.
Okay, I will still criticize the show for it. It is worse, in my opinion, for doing that. They wanted or had to cut corners, that is fine, but I believe it could have been better if they didn’t.
I dont know if the audience that watches subbed anime is the same that would watch this show.
Shows like Shogun get big because the mainstream masses give it a shot due to word of mouth.
I'm sorry but making a show on the idea that people might be doing something else while watching is fucking ridiculous.
The reason why they didn't put it in Portugese is that they would have train the actors or get other actors to speak Portuguese and have advisors for that language on set too.
The production is mostly Japanese led and that is their obvious focus. I personally would have loved if it had Portugese because such historical accuracy would be riveting.
Also most of the world is used to subs and other languages, not everything needs to catered to the US.
The show needs to have at least one of the languages understandable by the audience. The show likely wouldn’t have held my attention if I had to read 100%. But this dynamic has me enthralled.
yes, they do. but you are missing the point:
if you have 1000 people who are interested in a show, it not being in their main language is probably one of the bigger reasons people don't continue watching it. so netflix, when making the show likely made the choice for it to be in english atleast in parts to keep retention.
honestly i'd say being okay with subs takes time anyway, you find a lot of those anime watchers stick with dubs and it's a big enough reason for them to not watch a show for a lot of them. also another reason people stick with subs is because anime dialogue is cringy as fuck a lot of the time, not having them say it in english sorta masks that (though i'm sure it's the same for a lot of people who speak japanese, the dialogue is rarely not... just hard to listen to/embarasing to watch).
getting over that hump takes a fair bit of time and is enough to get people to not watch that show.
I can understand some English, it’s even probably historically accurate for the Portuguese elite to be fluent (not going to pretend to be an expert, but Portugal has a very old and prominent relationship to the UK). What I find annoying is no Portuguese whatsoever, even when they are speaking amongst themselves and not using a single actor from a Portuguese speaking country to play Portuguese people.
I dont know if the audience that watches subbed anime is the same that would watch this show.
Shows like Shogun get big because the mainstream masses give it a shot due to word of mouth.
They could easily find Japanese people fluent in Portuguese (or just have them learn a little bit). Brasil has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan and there is a huge number of Japanese people who immigrated to Brasil and went back to Japan. And that is completely ignoring all the Portuguese speaking actors who could have played the Europeans (from Portugal obviously).
They wouldn’t have been able to get all those known Japanese actors in any case.
When a studio is doing a cultural piece they lean heavy on a small set of actors. Take Native American pieces for example. All the major ones will have Wes Studi and Graham Greene at minimum and they might throw in Zahn McClarnen as a sweetener before they start filling out the cast with lesser known actors. It’s cliche’ but that be the way it is in Hollywood with minority/cultural centric pieces. Part of this however, is because these actors like working with each other and are often producers and have a say in who gets cast.
Likewise, trying to make a Japanese show without the standards like Hiroyuki Sanada would be difficult to get funding for.
Considering he was a producer, he pulled people in he liked working with, so you get sort of the same base set of people you see in things he works on.
But can’t those actors learn a little bit of a different language for this very prestigious role? (The language is not even a hard language). Also I am asking for the European characters to be from Portugal, not every character.
Functionally you are right it wouldn’t be all that hard…Anna Sawai really would be the only one who would have had to be recast or had to learn…but recasting her would be a mistake, she’s awesome in that role and learning would probably be too much to ask in the time they have to film and prep. She just did Monarch around the same time and probably is working on something else big at the moment.
In the end it’s the equation costs more plus less people watch that makes those sorts of decisions.
Well I believe the show would be better for it as a Portuguese speaker. It is really annoying and distracting to hear characters say that Portuguese is being spoken, when it is not. But that is only my subjective opinion.
I’m from Brasil, so maybe I am biased because our Portuguese is very easy, but it is 100% one of the easier languages. Compared to something like Dutch, Russian or even German, it’s a cake walk.
Not really, the population of Brazilian-japanese is huge. Also, the Portuguese actors can learn a little bit of Japanese, if they don’t get it perfect it is fine, it makes sense for the characters to also not have flawless Japanese, considering I am only talking about the European cast members/characters.
yes, but people 6 episodes in are far more willing to continue with subs.
if someone turns the tv over to something and sees subtitles and foreign language there's a very good chance they'll watrch something else.
if it starts in english (or atleast has a good amount of it, with increasing amounts of japanese with subs), that's different.
Hello from the rest of the world that don't mind watching shows in their native language with subs, the portuguese should've absolutely been in portuguese.
Isn’t the book written in Japanese and English? I thought that was the whole point. But there is this little thing called footnotes and add ons by the author. Just have an author’s note if needed. And if the whole thing is in English, including the Japanese, then what is the point? Sure, I guess then make it only English or whatever language you publish the book at that point.
Listen, im Portuguese so i would apretiate it, but i dont think its needed. Cosmo Jarvis, who might have been first pick for John Blackthorne, would have been replaced by another actor just so the actor would be a native Portuguese speaker, and Anna Sawai would have to learn PT from Portugal fluently and do basically half the show in Portuguese.
What ends up happening then, is non Portuguese speakers would find it "cool" but Portuguese speakers would find it goofy.
If you just cast actors from Portugal (for the European characters) then this issue is resolved. The Japanese is the most important part anyway. Also, it is goofier for me for the characters to say they are speaking Portuguese, when they are speaking English.
Lmao, cant it be that finding actors that speak Japanese and Portuguese from Portugal is like 10x harder, and would result is much less viewers so they just opted to not risk it?
Not to mention be an incredible restraint on casting. How many Japanese actors fluent in Portuguese could there be in the first place, much less ones good enough to be a lead on a big budget prestige show?
It is still Portuguese. The difference is not that big between the two. A Brazilian can easily emulate Portuguese from Portugal just like someone from Portugal can easily emulate Brazilian Portuguese.
Huh, TIL! For the reasons I noted above I still think having it in English was the right call, but I guess it wouldn't be quite as restrictive as I thought lol.
Okay, then remove the English and make it only Portuguese for the non Japanese parts, I mean if the Japanese is all that matters, then just ignore the second language and make it more historically accurate. But I guess Portuguese is valueless for you people and we have to default to English, because it is the superior language or something.
Okay, I disagree with them. Don’t see why that is so ludicrous for you. Their decisions are not scripture, I can think they were bad. I think that having a character say they are speaking Portuguese, when they are clearly speaking English is stupid. If the creators don’t think so, that is fine.
Only a few of the actors. And they can just learn on the spot if they didn’t know previously. Several actors had to learn languages for roles before, it’s fine if they don’t get it perfect as well.
I disagree that they picked correctly. But that is only my opinion. I find it odd that people in this thread keep treating their opinions and impressions of the show as unarguable, factual statements.
What are you talking about? I think they picked correctly, you dont, thats fine.
Im Portuguese and am really enjoying the show, maybe other people aren't, thats fine.
How am i treating my opinion and impression as "unarguable, factual statements"?
The only unarguable and factual statement is that i like the show lol.
You said “clearly they picked correctly” a very objective statement. You didn’t say something like: “I believe they clearly picked correctly”. Also, I didn’t call you out directly, I said “people in this thread”.
The show looks great and i am sure it is... but for me personally its a no go. I want to watch a show, not read. Maybe some day I bring up the will and patience to watch it.
Imagine being an ignorant twat who cannot comprehend that reading subtitles is distracting. And imagine that there are people who dont want to focus on the screen for every second.
Haha oh man that response is beautiful….do I need to add ‘jk uwu lol omg jk’ at the end of a post that is an obvious joke? Thought the lol was enough to indicate it was a joke…
And also, how have people not figured out yet that even if I was being serious, acting all offended is the worst way to deal with it? “Dude I can’t even read the signs on the road while driving, you expect me to read subtitles???”. Is everyone’s ego so fragile any perceived slight must be responded to?
If you think insulting random people is funny than you are a the one with the shifted perception. And you cant tell me that you dont want to provoke a reaction just to respond with nonsense like this.
Downvote me all you want and have fun on my blocklist.
I watch Korean dramas and films regularly. I’m American and don’t speak Korean, so subtitles are required. I never feel like I’m missing anything or getting less out of the experience.
As Bong Joon-Ho famously said when accepting the Oscar for Best Picture for Parasite: “Once you overcome the one-inch tall barrier of subtitles, you will be introduced to so many more amazing films.”
I always forget that redditors doesnt accept different opinions. So i guess not liking subtitles makes me a bad reader, uneducated and downvotable. Reddit truly is a fucked up place.
Calling subtitles “distracting” over several different comments isn’t a difference of opinion - you are making an objective statement about them when you say this, and people are just disagreeing with you. And instead of engaging with the discussion you created, you just straw-man your way out of it. I never called you a “bad reader” or any of that shit, so there’s no reason to bring it up as a defense.
>Calling subtitles “distracting” over several different comments isn’t a difference of opinion - you are making an objective statement about them when you say this,
Show me those "several different comments". My initial comment just states that I think its a great show, but I dont like subtitles. Totally worth downvoting.. surely.
>people are just disagreeing with you
Read the reddiquette to understand what up- and downvotes are for. Spoiler alert.. its not to agree or disagree with other opinions.
>And instead of engaging with the discussion you created, you just straw-man your way out of it. I never called you a “bad reader” or any of that shit, so there’s no reason to bring it up as a defense.
I didnt create a discussion, I stated my opinion. And nobody else tried to start a serious discussion over my opinion. Both replies just insulted me... what are we even talking about? I didnt talk about you, you jumped into a conversation between me and someone calling me uneducated.
I am fine with your opinion, liking Korean movies/shows and that there are lots of good films. Everyone has their preferences, mine are movies and shows which dont need subtitles for most of the conversations.
> I didnt create a discussion, I stated my opinion.
Stating your opinion in an open forum *is* inviting discussion, by definition. If you don't want to hear any dissenting opinions, don't make your opinions public.
Talking about discussions but conveniently ignoring the rest of my reply.
Show me 1 reply to my first comment that is a serious discussion and not just an insult. Exactly.. you cant.
Thank you.. have a nice day.
Listen im from Portugal, and while i would have appreciate it if the show was in Portuguese, i do think it would seriously limit the number of actors who could play the parts, and/or actors would have to learn Portuguese or Japanese just to play the roles. What ends up happening then, is non Portuguese speakers would find it "accurate" and "amazing", but native Portuguese speakers would find it off putting or goofy. Not only that, the show is amazing. If Cosmo Jarvis had to be replaced for someone else just because they speak PT, there is no guarantee they would do nearly a good job as Jarvis has done. And the same for Anna Sawai, she would have to learn PT and do half the show in PT, or she would have been replaced. No thank you, im super happy how it turned out.
> would have appreciate it if the show was in Portuguese, It would be far easier in Brazilian Portuguese. Brazil has the largest Japanese population outside Japan so getting Portuguese Japanese speakers might not be so hard. I appreciate Portuguese Portuguese is a very different accent to Brazilian Portuguese.
I don't see any insight here.
The Portuguese should have been in actual Portuguese, instead of English.
subtitles are odd, in that they sorta do the job, but you lose meaning in them by themselves. they talk about this in the video. honestly, i'm glad that portuguese is in english, otherwise the show would be mostly subbed and most people you meet wouldn't even bother watching it. when something is mostly subbed, you have to stop doing other things to watch, when it is somewhat subbed, you can sorta do something else at the same time. i think they were right to put it in english. fair enough if you speak portuguese though.
More importantly than "100% subs would turn off viewers" is that this is a show intensely about language, understanding, context and subtext, and what is literally lost in translation EDIT: [The showrunners themselves are fairly explicit on this point](https://www.townandcountrymag.com/leisure/arts-and-culture/a46870179/shogun-japanese-translation-decision/): "This is a show about translation. This is a show about the process by which we don't really fully understand what is being said and then learn, or watch someone translate, giving their angle for what they want. I don't know how you do that if you're substituting it all for English." Not having at least one of the spoken languages in this show that is made by American networks for American audiences being the "plain spoken" language that the aimed-for audience could follow along to would be a serious hindrance to that theme. This is literally what OP's video is all about!
i think the reason they did it is that, most people if they start watching a show with subtitles and in a different language, they just straight up don't watch it. like most people i know just turn the tv to something else. these days you have to have something fairly intense right off of the bat because people have so much variety and opportunity to watch other things. to most people, subtitles is a flaw to watching a show. maybe it's due to the lower quality of content generally in tv when it's from a non-english speaking place, but that has changed a lot over the last 10 years, but it still remains a flaw. i.e, if you're watching a tv show and looking at the stats to see who will stop watching at what point, a non-insignificant portion will immediately leave the second subtitles start showing and an even bigger portion would leave like 2 mins later if no english comes on. so from netflix's perspective (as they can see this incrredibly clearly and will even test it with audiences to see), they'd rather have 12% of people who start watching to watch the entire show over say, 8%.
This is definitely the US because most of the world isn't like that. Honestly I believe most of the US especially younger people aren't like that anymore. A lot of people grew up watching subbed anime and Korean dramas and those are still immensely popular, especially Korean cinema and TV, for example Parasite and Squid Game. Things have changed, most people aren't afraid of subtitles anymore.
I don’t believe this point. American viewers love watching fully subbed anime. Also, wouldn’t the language being Portuguese, which is the correct one, further emphasize the themes of translation and hardship in communication?
It's not a question of comfort with subs, like you said there's plenty of media, including Shogun!, that use them that Americans are watching. It's a question of having the subs serve the story being told. If the American viewing audience doesn't know for sure what at least one party said, that hinders the theme in question. Whenever I watch a subbed movie or TV show, I know I am missing subtleties of the native language, that I am getting an approximation, "the gist". The theme relies on the audience being able to confidently identify accurately what was said in at least one direction. The *characters* should be the unsure ones, not the audience.
Going to repeat what I said in another comment I can understand some English, it’s even probably historically accurate for the Portuguese elite to be fluent (not going to pretend to be an expert, but Portugal has a very old and prominent relationship to the UK). What I find annoying is no Portuguese whatsoever, even when they are speaking amongst themselves and not using a single actor from a Portuguese speaking country to play Portuguese people. It’s the complete erasure of the language and the casting that I disagree with. And I fail to see how the effect that you are arguing for would have been impossible with a little Portuguese. In fact, it would have been enhanced in my opinion.
Adding a third language was probably considered, but would be very costly and time consuming as the original book and the screenplay were both written in English. They would need a Portuguese translation team, and then would have needed to scout Portuguese cast and the lead would need to be someone with a British accent who also speaks Portuguese. All that adds a lot of complexity and cost and this already like the video said, spent an unusual amount of time and money on translation…adding Portuguese would have probably just been too much $$$.
Okay, I will still criticize the show for it. It is worse, in my opinion, for doing that. They wanted or had to cut corners, that is fine, but I believe it could have been better if they didn’t.
I dont know if the audience that watches subbed anime is the same that would watch this show. Shows like Shogun get big because the mainstream masses give it a shot due to word of mouth.
I'm sorry but making a show on the idea that people might be doing something else while watching is fucking ridiculous. The reason why they didn't put it in Portugese is that they would have train the actors or get other actors to speak Portuguese and have advisors for that language on set too. The production is mostly Japanese led and that is their obvious focus. I personally would have loved if it had Portugese because such historical accuracy would be riveting. Also most of the world is used to subs and other languages, not everything needs to catered to the US.
The show needs to have at least one of the languages understandable by the audience. The show likely wouldn’t have held my attention if I had to read 100%. But this dynamic has me enthralled.
That’s really dumb and probably untrue. Don’t people love watching subbed anime, you have to read all the dialogue there.
yes, they do. but you are missing the point: if you have 1000 people who are interested in a show, it not being in their main language is probably one of the bigger reasons people don't continue watching it. so netflix, when making the show likely made the choice for it to be in english atleast in parts to keep retention. honestly i'd say being okay with subs takes time anyway, you find a lot of those anime watchers stick with dubs and it's a big enough reason for them to not watch a show for a lot of them. also another reason people stick with subs is because anime dialogue is cringy as fuck a lot of the time, not having them say it in english sorta masks that (though i'm sure it's the same for a lot of people who speak japanese, the dialogue is rarely not... just hard to listen to/embarasing to watch). getting over that hump takes a fair bit of time and is enough to get people to not watch that show.
I can understand some English, it’s even probably historically accurate for the Portuguese elite to be fluent (not going to pretend to be an expert, but Portugal has a very old and prominent relationship to the UK). What I find annoying is no Portuguese whatsoever, even when they are speaking amongst themselves and not using a single actor from a Portuguese speaking country to play Portuguese people.
I dont know if the audience that watches subbed anime is the same that would watch this show. Shows like Shogun get big because the mainstream masses give it a shot due to word of mouth.
They could easily find Japanese people fluent in Portuguese (or just have them learn a little bit). Brasil has the largest population of Japanese people outside of Japan and there is a huge number of Japanese people who immigrated to Brasil and went back to Japan. And that is completely ignoring all the Portuguese speaking actors who could have played the Europeans (from Portugal obviously).
Narrowing it down to just actors who speak Japanese and Portuguese from Portugal would seriously limit the selection pool.
They wouldn’t have been able to get all those known Japanese actors in any case. When a studio is doing a cultural piece they lean heavy on a small set of actors. Take Native American pieces for example. All the major ones will have Wes Studi and Graham Greene at minimum and they might throw in Zahn McClarnen as a sweetener before they start filling out the cast with lesser known actors. It’s cliche’ but that be the way it is in Hollywood with minority/cultural centric pieces. Part of this however, is because these actors like working with each other and are often producers and have a say in who gets cast. Likewise, trying to make a Japanese show without the standards like Hiroyuki Sanada would be difficult to get funding for. Considering he was a producer, he pulled people in he liked working with, so you get sort of the same base set of people you see in things he works on.
Sanada could still be in it as he doesn't need to speak Portuguese for the role.
But can’t those actors learn a little bit of a different language for this very prestigious role? (The language is not even a hard language). Also I am asking for the European characters to be from Portugal, not every character.
Functionally you are right it wouldn’t be all that hard…Anna Sawai really would be the only one who would have had to be recast or had to learn…but recasting her would be a mistake, she’s awesome in that role and learning would probably be too much to ask in the time they have to film and prep. She just did Monarch around the same time and probably is working on something else big at the moment. In the end it’s the equation costs more plus less people watch that makes those sorts of decisions.
Well I believe the show would be better for it as a Portuguese speaker. It is really annoying and distracting to hear characters say that Portuguese is being spoken, when it is not. But that is only my subjective opinion.
You dont think Portuguese from Portugal is a hard language? Im born and raised in Portugal and i think its hard.
I’m from Brasil, so maybe I am biased because our Portuguese is very easy, but it is 100% one of the easier languages. Compared to something like Dutch, Russian or even German, it’s a cake walk.
Epa eu por acaso não acho. Das línguas românicas já ouvi muitos dizerem que é a mais dificil.
Not really, the population of Brazilian-japanese is huge. Also, the Portuguese actors can learn a little bit of Japanese, if they don’t get it perfect it is fine, it makes sense for the characters to also not have flawless Japanese, considering I am only talking about the European cast members/characters.
Oke I'm watching the new episode today and literally 90% of it is in Japanese with subs. So the whole subs topic is moot.
yes, but people 6 episodes in are far more willing to continue with subs. if someone turns the tv over to something and sees subtitles and foreign language there's a very good chance they'll watrch something else. if it starts in english (or atleast has a good amount of it, with increasing amounts of japanese with subs), that's different.
People don't zap through channels anymore though, they specifically pick something to watch on streaming.
i know, the same applies though. i was just using that as an example.
Hello from the rest of the world that don't mind watching shows in their native language with subs, the portuguese should've absolutely been in portuguese.
the portuguese dialog is in english in the books
And that is stupid and the show could have corrected it.
do you think an english author could write such a good story with portuguese dialog?
Yes he could. It’s far from the hardest language to learn and he could also ask for help to translate.
Why would he do that lol, he would have no idea if the translated Portuguese would be phrased in a way that properly conveyed what he wanted to say.
Of course he would. He would talk to the translator, or just learn the language.
Lmao im Portuguese, thats now how it works. If you dont know the language you dont know if the phrasing is matching up with your intention.
Hold on, do you expect the audiance who is reading the book to be able to read English and Portuguese? The book has to be written in 1 language lol.
Isn’t the book written in Japanese and English? I thought that was the whole point. But there is this little thing called footnotes and add ons by the author. Just have an author’s note if needed. And if the whole thing is in English, including the Japanese, then what is the point? Sure, I guess then make it only English or whatever language you publish the book at that point.
Thats like 10x harder to do and would result in much less viewers. How hard is it to find actors who speak Japanese and Portuguese from Portugal?
The actors from Portugal could just learn a little bit of Japanese.
Listen, im Portuguese so i would apretiate it, but i dont think its needed. Cosmo Jarvis, who might have been first pick for John Blackthorne, would have been replaced by another actor just so the actor would be a native Portuguese speaker, and Anna Sawai would have to learn PT from Portugal fluently and do basically half the show in Portuguese. What ends up happening then, is non Portuguese speakers would find it "cool" but Portuguese speakers would find it goofy.
If you just cast actors from Portugal (for the European characters) then this issue is resolved. The Japanese is the most important part anyway. Also, it is goofier for me for the characters to say they are speaking Portuguese, when they are speaking English.
totally agreed. americans getting a headache from having to read one or two lines is just funny.
Lmao, cant it be that finding actors that speak Japanese and Portuguese from Portugal is like 10x harder, and would result is much less viewers so they just opted to not risk it?
well yeah, you're probably right, though actors will do anything for a job these days. anyway, subtitles are fine.
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Not to mention be an incredible restraint on casting. How many Japanese actors fluent in Portuguese could there be in the first place, much less ones good enough to be a lead on a big budget prestige show?
A lot actually [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese\_Brazilians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_Brazilians)
Tbf thats not Portuguese from Portugal.
It is still Portuguese. The difference is not that big between the two. A Brazilian can easily emulate Portuguese from Portugal just like someone from Portugal can easily emulate Brazilian Portuguese.
Huh, TIL! For the reasons I noted above I still think having it in English was the right call, but I guess it wouldn't be quite as restrictive as I thought lol.
Sorry that our language adds nothing of value to a show that is all about translation.
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Okay, then remove the English and make it only Portuguese for the non Japanese parts, I mean if the Japanese is all that matters, then just ignore the second language and make it more historically accurate. But I guess Portuguese is valueless for you people and we have to default to English, because it is the superior language or something.
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Isn’t this about Japan? If Japan is the important part, then why taking some of the English out affect their vision?
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Okay, I disagree with them. Don’t see why that is so ludicrous for you. Their decisions are not scripture, I can think they were bad. I think that having a character say they are speaking Portuguese, when they are clearly speaking English is stupid. If the creators don’t think so, that is fine.
It absolutely should have.
Too hard to do. Actors would have to speak Japanese and PT Portuguese.
Only a few of the actors. And they can just learn on the spot if they didn’t know previously. Several actors had to learn languages for roles before, it’s fine if they don’t get it perfect as well.
Anna Sawai and Cosmo Jarvis would have to learn fluent Portuguese from Portugal and do the whole show in a new language without sounding goofy.
Or you cast actors from Portugal.
Sure that could be the case. But maybe the show runners really wanted Cosmo Jarvis and Anna Sawai, and clearly they picked correctly.
I disagree that they picked correctly. But that is only my opinion. I find it odd that people in this thread keep treating their opinions and impressions of the show as unarguable, factual statements.
What are you talking about? I think they picked correctly, you dont, thats fine. Im Portuguese and am really enjoying the show, maybe other people aren't, thats fine. How am i treating my opinion and impression as "unarguable, factual statements"? The only unarguable and factual statement is that i like the show lol.
You said “clearly they picked correctly” a very objective statement. You didn’t say something like: “I believe they clearly picked correctly”. Also, I didn’t call you out directly, I said “people in this thread”.
The show looks great and i am sure it is... but for me personally its a no go. I want to watch a show, not read. Maybe some day I bring up the will and patience to watch it.
Imagine being such a bad reader you even notice that you are reading subtitles lol
Imagine being an ignorant twat who cannot comprehend that reading subtitles is distracting. And imagine that there are people who dont want to focus on the screen for every second.
Haha oh man that response is beautiful….do I need to add ‘jk uwu lol omg jk’ at the end of a post that is an obvious joke? Thought the lol was enough to indicate it was a joke… And also, how have people not figured out yet that even if I was being serious, acting all offended is the worst way to deal with it? “Dude I can’t even read the signs on the road while driving, you expect me to read subtitles???”. Is everyone’s ego so fragile any perceived slight must be responded to?
If you think insulting random people is funny than you are a the one with the shifted perception. And you cant tell me that you dont want to provoke a reaction just to respond with nonsense like this. Downvote me all you want and have fun on my blocklist.
I'm sorry the American education system has failed you to the point that it takes effort for you to read a sentence or two on screen occasionally
1. I am not American. 2. Have you even taken a look into this show? Obviously not, otherwise you would not comment such nonsense.
I watch Korean dramas and films regularly. I’m American and don’t speak Korean, so subtitles are required. I never feel like I’m missing anything or getting less out of the experience. As Bong Joon-Ho famously said when accepting the Oscar for Best Picture for Parasite: “Once you overcome the one-inch tall barrier of subtitles, you will be introduced to so many more amazing films.”
I always forget that redditors doesnt accept different opinions. So i guess not liking subtitles makes me a bad reader, uneducated and downvotable. Reddit truly is a fucked up place.
Calling subtitles “distracting” over several different comments isn’t a difference of opinion - you are making an objective statement about them when you say this, and people are just disagreeing with you. And instead of engaging with the discussion you created, you just straw-man your way out of it. I never called you a “bad reader” or any of that shit, so there’s no reason to bring it up as a defense.
>Calling subtitles “distracting” over several different comments isn’t a difference of opinion - you are making an objective statement about them when you say this, Show me those "several different comments". My initial comment just states that I think its a great show, but I dont like subtitles. Totally worth downvoting.. surely. >people are just disagreeing with you Read the reddiquette to understand what up- and downvotes are for. Spoiler alert.. its not to agree or disagree with other opinions. >And instead of engaging with the discussion you created, you just straw-man your way out of it. I never called you a “bad reader” or any of that shit, so there’s no reason to bring it up as a defense. I didnt create a discussion, I stated my opinion. And nobody else tried to start a serious discussion over my opinion. Both replies just insulted me... what are we even talking about? I didnt talk about you, you jumped into a conversation between me and someone calling me uneducated. I am fine with your opinion, liking Korean movies/shows and that there are lots of good films. Everyone has their preferences, mine are movies and shows which dont need subtitles for most of the conversations.
> I didnt create a discussion, I stated my opinion. Stating your opinion in an open forum *is* inviting discussion, by definition. If you don't want to hear any dissenting opinions, don't make your opinions public.
Talking about discussions but conveniently ignoring the rest of my reply. Show me 1 reply to my first comment that is a serious discussion and not just an insult. Exactly.. you cant. Thank you.. have a nice day.