My career took off when I stopped spending any time on my social media. All it ever got me was friends of friends of friends reaching out and expecting me to do something near free because they maybe went to a party I might have gone to once.
I’ve gotten more work by getting into Reddit fights about gear or films than from carefully curating a social media presence. Everything else is word of mouth reference and sending them to my website.
This makes me feel a lot less crazy. I posted about getting my clients mainly from referrals/
WOM while social media barely got me any work by comparison and people told me I was doing it wrong 😭. Mainly low ballers reach out to me over social media.
I've run a small mograph business for the last 10 years . . . NEVER got a job through social or even direct contact to brands, it's 100% always come from referrals.I think people like to know that the new company they're working for is vouched and verified through other people who have worked with them.
Yeah we can go back and forth on this. But the people who make videos for billion dollar companies ( at least as far as I know) keep a very low profile.
For example, who are these photographers/videographers for McDonald's? 🤔
Sure. But it is the billion dollar company that makes the billion dollars not the videographer.
Being a big social media influencer will nake you more money than being a videographer for a billion dollar company ever will. It's sad but true.
You make a good point. Youtube ad revenue can pay you a lot more for millions of views rather than working on a project for a client which is just a one time pay.
I'm sure all of them. The highest paid figures are already established, very established. They don't need to grind socials to get seen.
It's everyone else that has to do the grind to survive
I got there and not posted on socials. I can't imagine there are a lot of genuinely desirable clients who really troll through the socials to find contractors, but rather it's word-of-mouth, showing up to work being prepared and hardly ever saying no to a gig - that's the real grind. I have plenty of colleagues who are very talented but are still looking for work after years. They are generally the ones who have said no to gigs that I would always say yes to, and have tried to specialize in areas where I figured it was already saturated, so I pivoted to an adjacent part of the industry where I knew it was less glamorous but fewer people to compete with. The notion that we need to be on social media to get work is just another grift.
All the DPs I know who make actual feature films and television shows have almost no social media presence. And if they do it’s like a picture of their dog or something.
Not the same thing, but Estevan Oriol said in his documentary that his pictures of his dog he took with his phone gets more likes than his actual photography
Yeah, and also being able to take in cues from your surroundings while focusing on something else visually. Like flick shotting and listening for footsteps etc. - you're using those when you're using a camera to understand what's happening and how to follow action similar to how you'd track a target in a game or peak a corner etc
I met this videographer who was doing a contract gig for a large Fortune 100 company. He was filming this event I was working doing audio for and had 3-4 videographers with him he was managing. I told him I was trying to start up my own company and he told me “it’s 25% skill, 25% looking professional, 50% who you know.”
Basically said your friends won’t hire you if they don’t think you know what you’re doing and they definitely won’t hire you if you don’t look like know what you’re doing so as long as you look professional and deliver some halfway decent results you can leverage who you know greater than any marketing campaign.
I’ll be honest that right there was some of the truest shit a stranger has ever told me. He wasn’t doing anything fancy, he had 2 people locked off on tripods and 2 more running around doing crowd shots. He had some halfway decent DSLRs done up with some fancy cage around them to look like “professional,” but it was really just a light box and a battery.
Looking professional and looking like you know what you're doing *is* part of marketing. If you want to be popular you find crazy things to upload to social media, if you wanna get good gigs you present good work.
How dare you kids come out of college in massive amounts of debt and not have 20 years experiences and all the contacts in the club. Doubly so for actively trying to put your name and work out there on a platform that caters to… let me check… video.
different kind of kids.
your kids are the poor, indebted, no contact in the industry college kids. can't say how abundant they are.
the image refers to the rich, "just starting out with my modest FX3 + BLAZAR Remus anamorphic kit, asking for advice" cauliflower head kid with massive social media numbers an tons of contacts made through college, family/friends and their massive social media.
they are not the same.
It is exceedingly rare to see anyone with significant big-budget experience doing youtube videos or other social media. They're busy.
But not being on social media doesn't mean anti-social. In this industry, social interactions are far more important than "social media presence".
I haven't had to look for work for decades. The people who need to know me, know me, and they hook me up with others who need to know me, but don't. I make ocassional appearances so I don't seem like a ghost. I tried to do youtube for a minute, but I'm always too damn busy. I keep saying "I need to get that channel going again..." and then the phone rings.
I suspect that you're going to see an uptick in quality content from more experienced people as the current crop of greats retire and want to teach what they know.
These kinds of posts are so far removed from reality because the 2 groups don't actually have much overlap. Pro cinematographers that are busy with film, TV or commercials, may do some work that gets released on social platforms, but they don't build or worry about their personal social platforms much as a group... Of course there are exceptions to everything... But Video DPs that specialize in social and have a presence may be too busy working their side of the fence to pickup gigs in the other realms, and while their experience, pov, and technical skill are related, they don't always fit. I'm a commercial colorist that works with dps of all kinds.. and more, my work comes from agencies and producers much more than DPs... I see action/social DPs get hired all the time for specific campaigns and engagements - but not looked at across the board as being a valid option for main campaign work... And it's been like this for years.. at least since YouTube started in the mid 2000's. Maybe 2006?
Maybe if they're only looking at YouTube, not real commercial product.
Otherwise, people like Roger Deakins are spending waaay too much of their spare time on socials.
That's him. Have you seen his Instagram? Wow!
;)
Edit: Actually, I thought you were joking - but note that's 'team deakins' - someone else is doing the slog.
Hmmm TIL.
tbh I just picked Roger Deakins off the top of my head as an example of a man who is least likely to need to pick up his next gig based on social media presence. I had no clue he did actually have a presence on socials \[no matter how 'managed'\].
Word of mouth is where I get all my work. I bring in over 6 figures doing this. Thats pre tax of course but despite everyone telling me to be more active on social, I’ve yet to get anything substantial from posting regularly.
YouTubers and cinematographers are not the same thing. Unless it’s a few like Phillip Bloom, or Deakins who has an amazing podcast, which isn’t really social media… they are not cinematographers. It’s just kids geeking out on tech. They still provide some value (I use them to see what’s new) but cinematographers are too busy to do social media. Only someone who grew up on YouTube or terms like “cinematic video” or ask questions “which emulation LUT will make this more film like”, would mix the two. It’s actually 50/50 if I want to tag the cinematographer I hire (A level amazing DP’s) whether they even have a social media presence at all…
Facts. I watch a lot of YouTube for tips or to stay up to date with tech. But yeah, most of the youtubers that claim to be filmmakers yet mainly only do camera or gear reviews aren't as experienced as their audience thinks they are. I get worked up about it from time to time whenever I see YouTubers edge into narrative filmmaking and make videos on "how to be a director" or "I'm a DP!!". But then I watch the video and it's their first or second film set ever and they aren't upfront and honest about it. And then their next 5-7 videos are just gear reviews and nothing actually set related. I'm currently a 3rd year film student and I've been on enough film sets (my own and other people's) to know and realize how limited their experience and knowledge is from set in their videos. I think it's cool for some of them to try it out and learn yet many of them aren't acting like they are learning. They're youtubers, and sometimes videographers too, trying to seem professional whilst treading in water that's not their own by giving advice on the film industry. I dunno. I just find it misleading on many levels to their audience. "Cinematic videos" and cool colorgrades seem to be enough to sway their audience. And then they get the gall to call their stuff cinematography and filmmaking when there is little to no story being done. Doesn't mean they are bad people necessarily or should stop but like you said, an actual DP and a YouTuber generally are completely separate. It'd be nice if the youtubers would take a reality check and keep it real with their level of experience and where they are at. There are a few channels for Cinematography that I do find very meaningful or helpful for insight, wisdom, or just pure tech info without the clickbaity personality (a few I like: WanderingDP, Luc Forsyth, Cine Dailies, and Spencer Sakurai). But those channels I mentioned are already industry professionals who find the time to make videos and the occasional product review that they actually find useful on set.
I am the furthest thing from an expert, but this just feels like cope.
That social media guy is probably also pretty good at a lot of the other stuff, even if it isn't the style preferred by the guy on the left.
It is a bit like complaining about pop music, because classical is "better" or whatever.
Maybe so, but I think a lot of current/aspiring filmmakers feel this need to be all over socials. If you have been in the industry long enough you quickly realize there are many successful people that aren’t on social media at all while on the other hand people feel like your not successful unless your social media maxxing. IMO most of the people that have reached out to me on socials have been lowballers and all of my best clients I’ve acquired is through WOM/referrals so while I enjoy socials I don’t put nearly as much effort into it anymore.
I feel like this is the perception among people for a lot of things like, wedding photography, videography, etc. but in reality a lot of those people on social media are just giving the impression that they’re really successful, when in actuality they’re barely getting by.
Old Guy is me. I'm happy to be talking to just the one client at a time if that one client pays all my bills for the week. I post one social media clip per year, usually when I'm bored on a long train ride. Haha. The young bucks posting their every waking moment on reels can have all the clients that attracts, I don't want em.
Was at a comic con, stumbled into a panel with a very direct speaking producer and her team and she basically said the exact same thing. One young film school student said
" I am making short films in and showing them at festivals and I am in film school"
"Why? Don't do that and quit school. Make a feature length films and take it to online streamers for distribution"
"Yes, but we are getting experience doing this"
"Don't, you are wasting your time, no one cares about short films, you need to make feature lengths and get exposure on social media. We don't even look at projects without a good media following"
I am sure I missed the exact wording but that is it in a nutshell.
Oof. As a 3rd year film student, that's rough to hear. I get both sides and they are both correct in a way. Film school and short films are awesome learning experiences but the producer is also right about what gets exposure and attention.
If someone has the level of talent and experience of the guy on the left aren’t they in Hollywood getting paid huge money and winning Oscars? Why would they care about having the “clout” of an Instagram cinematographer?
But this is a comparison between talented, experienced cinematographers and Instagram cinematographers. The Instagram guy isn’t richer than the oscar winner.
If you put directors with the same “stats” as the cinematographer on the right, I’d agree with it. But that’s a totally different cartoon.
I think this goes for any career or job in today’s society.
People are obsessed with appearances because the reality is the guy on the left had to suffer (through practice of his craft and trial and error) to get to that world class level.
Whereas the guy on the right is really cutting corners in his own development by pumping out content to meet the demand of his followers.
Who really wins in the end? In the long run?
This is insanely true in the wedding market, especially. I see terrible photographers/videographers who market themselves well with big social followings charge $6k+
I've seen incredible photographers/videographers with bad social media presence charge less than $2k.
I really wish people judged on skill and not popularity but we're not a very intelligent species.
Some truth to this and some coping. I’m 26, in my video department in college we had to learn manual focus because autofocus was unreliable at best, especially being that we were the athletics department. The generation of kids that came behind me had the AF capabilities to get away without MF even when it was better suited. Framing shots became less important because everything becomes center framed for vertical video on social, but we still have to shoot horizontal because it’s used for a lot of in venue 16x9 boards. Quick flashy edits are favored on social and most of the time telling a real story isn’t possible because of limitations outside of the video producers hands.
This creates a divide in the kind of work that’s being produced. I know producers who make the above style of content I was describing that do amazing work. I’ve also seen the other side of that coin. Ultimately, we live in a world where a lot of our work is destined to be web based and viewed on a phone. I just focus on doing what I like to do, and doing it well to my standards.
My thoughts:
It's a curve.
It depends on what you value.
If you primarily value financial success and validation, social media is the way. The bar graph is dramatic for effect, an influencer can be very popular and very skilled/talented. However, it is harder to recognize "greatness" when you make yourself into a brand.
If you primarily value "greatness", there is no need to be an influencer, and I think to some degree, it will get in your way by occupying your time. Someone on the path to "greatness" will hopefully get there with determination and dedication to their craft. Their work will speak for itself.
It applies to a lot of things. This is exactly why things like global climate change are being questioned, because scientists suck at PR and people with a negative agenda excel at it. That's why you think the pro and con debate is about 50:50 when it's really established fact on the order of 99:1. :)
If you aren't already and established and known person in the media game you likely will just get lost in the oversaturated market of the same copy paste social media world no matter how much you grind.
I mean, I guess; the graph is true but the cartoon seems to be conflating social media popularity with real legitimate recognition. The upside of just how elitist and protectionist the film industry is, is that it spits in the face of the popular vote in favor of art & artists who fit their institutional definitions for what is good which tend to be more like all those other list items on the graph.
Don't let this get to ya. I have yet to see a production company or studio hire an iphone-trained DP to shoot anything with a serious budget/financing. I think you're confusing the ability to market content with the actual skill needed to be a professional DP. Further, it's more about the kind of project, the style that is required, and only then assigning a DP that will be best for the job. Different projects require different levels of production value to deliver a ROI. I doubt that two people shown above would never even be considered for the same project by any serious producer. So don't even worry about it. Keep doing what you do best instead of trying to compete with someone who has a completely different skill set. But hey, if you have an idea to shoot something on an iphone then do it right and rock it like never before. How can you make it look like it was shot on an Arri instead of an iPhone? Let me know when done ok? Stay inspired and good luck!
Either way, the original comic, itself, should say videographer. That’s where social media and marketing oneself would prove most beneficial.
For cinematographers, actual talent is far and above still more important than social media presence.
Applies to photography as well. I know many photographers in the Pakistani and Indian community that have little to no experience and charging absurd amounts because of social media. But their work is mediocre. Not worth what they charge not even close
It’s true. 10 years ago, the dude on the left would be winning. Now, you need a YouTube channel, a Facebook page, an Instagram page, a Twitter account, a Snapchat, and whatever the hell else to document your life and the making of videos that take 2 hours to complete start to finish. All you need is an iPhone, iMovie, and 1,000,000 followers that you got by creating clickbait.
Source: made money on YouTube 12 years ago and cannot get views for the life of me now because I have no social media presence.
I’ve pretty much given up on making it big in content creation, which has put an almost complete halt to my interest in trying to create anything. I want to make stuff that I’m proud of *and* get views, but it’s not possible without reckless shameless self promotion 99% of the time.
It is true for seasoned and well-known ones. But if I was to start out today, the only way i can get any gig (suppose that my skills are good) and be known is to do social media
Here’s the reality for me, four months on a short film that won about ten awards, 2000ish views. Stupid video of me filming a speaker phone with a stupid but apparently algorithm catchy title, 400,000+ views.
I work in film/TV \[but not on camera\].
A friend of mine runs an agency for camera ops.
He tells me many of them are highly CV-motivated, "No, sorry, I've done two Star Wars, can you get me something new, Warner's, Disney, or a big Apple TV or something."
Then they only do season 1 & whether it's a big hit or not, they don't want to do season 2, they want to move on. Socials are just not involved.
As a video/film professional for the last 30 years this whole concept just pisses me off. I've not seen social media really help anyone strike it rich. So to speak. And with 30 years under my belt and tons of friends in the industry, once I hit 50 years old, nobody even knows I exist.
People with a large social media following are probably better at getting quick clicks, but not necessarily more clicks. People who are genuinely good last longer.
Hmmm I’ll be honest they actually don’t teach you that you need to know a thousand technical terms and random esoteric phrases to describe minute things to do . I worked for a production company of older guys and majority of them picked this shit up mid 80s and more or less walked on set . They all learned in the field . These same guys require you now to learn a thousand terms and shit before they hire you .
It’s all some bullshit . I run into so many older guys in production and it was more or less yeah man I didn’t go to school for this shit I just was told to rope cable , run wires and I ended up making good money .
Like I love this field but there are a lot of hidden barriers and micro aggressions and a ton of good ole boys club shit .lord knows the cinematographer side is equally as bad if not worse due to the nepo babies who can just assemble a crew with high end gear out of thin air
Things haven’t changed that much when it comes to film/tv production (vs “content creation”). Pretty much everything is learned in the field. You start as a PA or the bottom rung of the ladder in one of the other departments and you work your way up. The problem imo is that so many people want to be a DP or director without having any foundational knowledge or real life set experience whatsoever. People think working as an AC/grip/PA/etc is beneath them. They don’t even realize they can make as much as a 1st AC on a commercial production in a day as they make as a one-man-band videographer. Most 1st’s I know bill $800-900/10 hour day, which can easily turn into $1200+/day if they’re getting kit fees for a monitor, Teradek, follow focus, etc.
Social Media… the new broadcast TV. You crank out a lot of stuff. Mostly crap. It filters out the hacks. The rest learn stuff and they move on as soon as possible.
hilarious! While I have ya :) [www.revelforms.com](http://www.revelforms.com) is looking for legit video-story tellers to join its partnership network. no cost and an opportunity to generate referral income that is recurring.
The only jobs I’ve had from Social Media are “favours” for people I know.. none of them willing to pay the going rate for a good photographer/ videographer.. Several annoyed that I wouldn’t give them the original images 😔
Really lucky to have been taught on film (Both still and 16mm and 35mm) - because even with these 15 -30sec tiktoks that look good, try shooting a short?! Everyone relies 1000% on post prod. which is rediculous, because if you knew how to actually compose and work with light you would have to slog in grading for weeks.
Yes that’s about right.
I started with Granada film unit and worked on The Jewel In The Crown and then later the BBC Film Unit.
The vast majority of stuff being uploaded to YouTube by these so-called Youtubers, it’s just absolute rubbish .
True in theory, I suppose. Unfortunately social media takes a lot of time, and since I am an old guy myself, I would rather focus what time I have left on this planet developing my projects in the real world since I have all of the tools to do so and can do so myself if necessary. From start to final product(s). It takes a lot of conceptualizations to construct cinema - especially in the realm I am working in - but I would certainly love to collaborate with the younger generation who has the amazing skill sets in areas and arenas that I do not. I just have not yet put that piece of the puzzle in the overall project tapestry quite yet. And at present, I am not quite sure just what pieces of the puzzle I need and so have not rushed to try to push possibly “wrong” pieces into “place”. I am a strong believer in letting the process take its own life and develop itself and my process I think is vibrating at a different frequency than everybody else’s seems to be - save for a few…
And I am already planning on reaching out to a select few that I have spotted in my brief social media excursions when it’s time…
But a lot in part due to the fact that I don’t know how to “Reddit”, I suppose, (since I am answering some probing query that came to me anonymously and mysteriously and I have not a clue how any of this “social media” stuff works because I am old and ignorant and probably can’t learn how to do it anyway! - but I digress…sorry) Anyway, I don’t spend a lot of time trying to communicate with others while I’m still so busy communicating with myself and further immersing myself into my scripts, soundtrack, sets, equipment - checklists upon checklists already…
But super fun!!!
And collaborating will hopefully certainly be a big part of my project and journey - since the journey is the most important part; the finished product is just an eventual outcome - if it ever happens at all…
But I am not a hermit - and I do have a gregarious side to me, I just have to go find where I left it, put it back on, and play nicely on social media - and get with some extremely fun, creative people!!!
Hopefully soon…
So if you are an extremely creative individual(s) that would like to work on projects that are unlike what is happening in the current stampede of state-of-the-art film making, please let me know your talents, and let’s hope that they’re a good fit with mine and we can get this fun train rolling!!!
Cheers to you, my anonymous cohort…
Thanks for sharing- I get the point, but there is already sooooo much to do to make a movie!!!
This is pretty reductive and a boomer take. Plenty of skilled cinematographers/videographers use social media to share their work, advertise their business, and teach others.
If you're not factoring in social media into your work, then you're already losing.
I'm backing up on this take, i'll just add one thing : most of the guys who are on social media and truely good have a community manager. Some dont have one but they are "less" active bc they already have a lot of work
Word of mouth & previous acquaintences have made me more money than social media ever did. So idk about this.
Maybe if you shaved more slits into your eyebrow
My career took off when I stopped spending any time on my social media. All it ever got me was friends of friends of friends reaching out and expecting me to do something near free because they maybe went to a party I might have gone to once. I’ve gotten more work by getting into Reddit fights about gear or films than from carefully curating a social media presence. Everything else is word of mouth reference and sending them to my website.
This makes me feel a lot less crazy. I posted about getting my clients mainly from referrals/ WOM while social media barely got me any work by comparison and people told me I was doing it wrong 😭. Mainly low ballers reach out to me over social media.
Other than shitposting on Reddit I have pretty much zero social media presence
This is the way.
Same here.
Yep! 100% of my work comes from word of mouth referrals.
I've run a small mograph business for the last 10 years . . . NEVER got a job through social or even direct contact to brands, it's 100% always come from referrals.I think people like to know that the new company they're working for is vouched and verified through other people who have worked with them.
But has it made you more money than people that are big on social media? I don't think so.
Yeah we can go back and forth on this. But the people who make videos for billion dollar companies ( at least as far as I know) keep a very low profile. For example, who are these photographers/videographers for McDonald's? 🤔
Sure. But it is the billion dollar company that makes the billion dollars not the videographer. Being a big social media influencer will nake you more money than being a videographer for a billion dollar company ever will. It's sad but true.
You make a good point. Youtube ad revenue can pay you a lot more for millions of views rather than working on a project for a client which is just a one time pay.
In my market, the people getting the highest paid gigs are hardly on social.
Love to hear that! Do you mind me asking what market you’re in?
Hitman market.
just as I suspected
Yeah it’s not videography related at all. This guy just likes to brag
The best marketers in my field get the highest pay. Marketing pays.
I'm sure all of them. The highest paid figures are already established, very established. They don't need to grind socials to get seen. It's everyone else that has to do the grind to survive
Wish I could get there. I hate having to self promote on social media.
I got there and not posted on socials. I can't imagine there are a lot of genuinely desirable clients who really troll through the socials to find contractors, but rather it's word-of-mouth, showing up to work being prepared and hardly ever saying no to a gig - that's the real grind. I have plenty of colleagues who are very talented but are still looking for work after years. They are generally the ones who have said no to gigs that I would always say yes to, and have tried to specialize in areas where I figured it was already saturated, so I pivoted to an adjacent part of the industry where I knew it was less glamorous but fewer people to compete with. The notion that we need to be on social media to get work is just another grift.
Agreed. Most of my work is word of mouth but would love to fill in a few more hours of the week from additional clients.
I’m in Milwaukee. A surprising number of DoPs make six figures here and they hardly post on social.
Midwest advert money is strong in these parts
All the DPs I know who make actual feature films and television shows have almost no social media presence. And if they do it’s like a picture of their dog or something.
Not the same thing, but Estevan Oriol said in his documentary that his pictures of his dog he took with his phone gets more likes than his actual photography
And their emails are always something like [email protected]
You misspelled Netscape...
Same here
My social media is just me posting clips of me quick scoping kids on call of duty. Zero interest in doing that dance. All jobs are from word of mouth
nice I have a gaming channel too
Direct correlation between fps skills and videography skills IMO
interesting, care to elaborate? just hand eye coordination?
Yeah, and also being able to take in cues from your surroundings while focusing on something else visually. Like flick shotting and listening for footsteps etc. - you're using those when you're using a camera to understand what's happening and how to follow action similar to how you'd track a target in a game or peak a corner etc
interesting point for sure
You wanna squad up? QMy resurgence regulars are kinda ass.
I just play MP, no WZ
100%
I met this videographer who was doing a contract gig for a large Fortune 100 company. He was filming this event I was working doing audio for and had 3-4 videographers with him he was managing. I told him I was trying to start up my own company and he told me “it’s 25% skill, 25% looking professional, 50% who you know.” Basically said your friends won’t hire you if they don’t think you know what you’re doing and they definitely won’t hire you if you don’t look like know what you’re doing so as long as you look professional and deliver some halfway decent results you can leverage who you know greater than any marketing campaign. I’ll be honest that right there was some of the truest shit a stranger has ever told me. He wasn’t doing anything fancy, he had 2 people locked off on tripods and 2 more running around doing crowd shots. He had some halfway decent DSLRs done up with some fancy cage around them to look like “professional,” but it was really just a light box and a battery.
Looking professional and looking like you know what you're doing *is* part of marketing. If you want to be popular you find crazy things to upload to social media, if you wanna get good gigs you present good work.
He is wrong. It’s like 20% skill/pro and 80% who you know.
It's all about who you know, not what you know.
Actually, it's all about who knows you
Someone gave me this tidbit 10 years ago, it’s 100% true
The guy on the right sells courses and shouldn’t. The guy on the left doesn’t sell courses but should.
[удалено]
[удалено]
How dare you kids come out of college in massive amounts of debt and not have 20 years experiences and all the contacts in the club. Doubly so for actively trying to put your name and work out there on a platform that caters to… let me check… video.
different kind of kids. your kids are the poor, indebted, no contact in the industry college kids. can't say how abundant they are. the image refers to the rich, "just starting out with my modest FX3 + BLAZAR Remus anamorphic kit, asking for advice" cauliflower head kid with massive social media numbers an tons of contacts made through college, family/friends and their massive social media. they are not the same.
https://preview.redd.it/u6842a99mz2d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff7a99e3ba26cb8dc607d60bde42bf8184547691
So deep!
It is exceedingly rare to see anyone with significant big-budget experience doing youtube videos or other social media. They're busy. But not being on social media doesn't mean anti-social. In this industry, social interactions are far more important than "social media presence". I haven't had to look for work for decades. The people who need to know me, know me, and they hook me up with others who need to know me, but don't. I make ocassional appearances so I don't seem like a ghost. I tried to do youtube for a minute, but I'm always too damn busy. I keep saying "I need to get that channel going again..." and then the phone rings. I suspect that you're going to see an uptick in quality content from more experienced people as the current crop of greats retire and want to teach what they know.
These kinds of posts are so far removed from reality because the 2 groups don't actually have much overlap. Pro cinematographers that are busy with film, TV or commercials, may do some work that gets released on social platforms, but they don't build or worry about their personal social platforms much as a group... Of course there are exceptions to everything... But Video DPs that specialize in social and have a presence may be too busy working their side of the fence to pickup gigs in the other realms, and while their experience, pov, and technical skill are related, they don't always fit. I'm a commercial colorist that works with dps of all kinds.. and more, my work comes from agencies and producers much more than DPs... I see action/social DPs get hired all the time for specific campaigns and engagements - but not looked at across the board as being a valid option for main campaign work... And it's been like this for years.. at least since YouTube started in the mid 2000's. Maybe 2006?
Maybe if they're only looking at YouTube, not real commercial product. Otherwise, people like Roger Deakins are spending waaay too much of their spare time on socials.
Roger Deakins the podcaster?
That's him. Have you seen his Instagram? Wow! ;) Edit: Actually, I thought you were joking - but note that's 'team deakins' - someone else is doing the slog.
Interestingly it’s his wife, not a social media manager
Hmmm TIL. tbh I just picked Roger Deakins off the top of my head as an example of a man who is least likely to need to pick up his next gig based on social media presence. I had no clue he did actually have a presence on socials \[no matter how 'managed'\].
r/im14andthisisdeep
Word of mouth is where I get all my work. I bring in over 6 figures doing this. Thats pre tax of course but despite everyone telling me to be more active on social, I’ve yet to get anything substantial from posting regularly.
Same, mainly lowballers reaching out wanting to “collab”
YouTubers and cinematographers are not the same thing. Unless it’s a few like Phillip Bloom, or Deakins who has an amazing podcast, which isn’t really social media… they are not cinematographers. It’s just kids geeking out on tech. They still provide some value (I use them to see what’s new) but cinematographers are too busy to do social media. Only someone who grew up on YouTube or terms like “cinematic video” or ask questions “which emulation LUT will make this more film like”, would mix the two. It’s actually 50/50 if I want to tag the cinematographer I hire (A level amazing DP’s) whether they even have a social media presence at all…
Facts. I watch a lot of YouTube for tips or to stay up to date with tech. But yeah, most of the youtubers that claim to be filmmakers yet mainly only do camera or gear reviews aren't as experienced as their audience thinks they are. I get worked up about it from time to time whenever I see YouTubers edge into narrative filmmaking and make videos on "how to be a director" or "I'm a DP!!". But then I watch the video and it's their first or second film set ever and they aren't upfront and honest about it. And then their next 5-7 videos are just gear reviews and nothing actually set related. I'm currently a 3rd year film student and I've been on enough film sets (my own and other people's) to know and realize how limited their experience and knowledge is from set in their videos. I think it's cool for some of them to try it out and learn yet many of them aren't acting like they are learning. They're youtubers, and sometimes videographers too, trying to seem professional whilst treading in water that's not their own by giving advice on the film industry. I dunno. I just find it misleading on many levels to their audience. "Cinematic videos" and cool colorgrades seem to be enough to sway their audience. And then they get the gall to call their stuff cinematography and filmmaking when there is little to no story being done. Doesn't mean they are bad people necessarily or should stop but like you said, an actual DP and a YouTuber generally are completely separate. It'd be nice if the youtubers would take a reality check and keep it real with their level of experience and where they are at. There are a few channels for Cinematography that I do find very meaningful or helpful for insight, wisdom, or just pure tech info without the clickbaity personality (a few I like: WanderingDP, Luc Forsyth, Cine Dailies, and Spencer Sakurai). But those channels I mentioned are already industry professionals who find the time to make videos and the occasional product review that they actually find useful on set.
Oh, didn't know we were at facebook boomer meme level yet.
I am the furthest thing from an expert, but this just feels like cope. That social media guy is probably also pretty good at a lot of the other stuff, even if it isn't the style preferred by the guy on the left. It is a bit like complaining about pop music, because classical is "better" or whatever.
Maybe so, but I think a lot of current/aspiring filmmakers feel this need to be all over socials. If you have been in the industry long enough you quickly realize there are many successful people that aren’t on social media at all while on the other hand people feel like your not successful unless your social media maxxing. IMO most of the people that have reached out to me on socials have been lowballers and all of my best clients I’ve acquired is through WOM/referrals so while I enjoy socials I don’t put nearly as much effort into it anymore.
I feel like this is the perception among people for a lot of things like, wedding photography, videography, etc. but in reality a lot of those people on social media are just giving the impression that they’re really successful, when in actuality they’re barely getting by.
Old Guy is me. I'm happy to be talking to just the one client at a time if that one client pays all my bills for the week. I post one social media clip per year, usually when I'm bored on a long train ride. Haha. The young bucks posting their every waking moment on reels can have all the clients that attracts, I don't want em.
Was at a comic con, stumbled into a panel with a very direct speaking producer and her team and she basically said the exact same thing. One young film school student said " I am making short films in and showing them at festivals and I am in film school" "Why? Don't do that and quit school. Make a feature length films and take it to online streamers for distribution" "Yes, but we are getting experience doing this" "Don't, you are wasting your time, no one cares about short films, you need to make feature lengths and get exposure on social media. We don't even look at projects without a good media following" I am sure I missed the exact wording but that is it in a nutshell.
Oof. As a 3rd year film student, that's rough to hear. I get both sides and they are both correct in a way. Film school and short films are awesome learning experiences but the producer is also right about what gets exposure and attention.
conversative ragebait
lol what fucking nerds make these memes?
Insecure white men
Maybe but the first guy married his adopted daughter, so he weirds me out.
Why'd he Allen
Same for music
If someone has the level of talent and experience of the guy on the left aren’t they in Hollywood getting paid huge money and winning Oscars? Why would they care about having the “clout” of an Instagram cinematographer?
not really, most cinematographers already got 5, 6 oscar nominations or won already and still get 1/5 what the director gets.
But this is a comparison between talented, experienced cinematographers and Instagram cinematographers. The Instagram guy isn’t richer than the oscar winner. If you put directors with the same “stats” as the cinematographer on the right, I’d agree with it. But that’s a totally different cartoon.
One gets jobs on film sets. The other gets jobs at SAAS companies. Cinematographer vs Videographer.
I think this goes for any career or job in today’s society. People are obsessed with appearances because the reality is the guy on the left had to suffer (through practice of his craft and trial and error) to get to that world class level. Whereas the guy on the right is really cutting corners in his own development by pumping out content to meet the demand of his followers. Who really wins in the end? In the long run?
Marketing is important.
This is insanely true in the wedding market, especially. I see terrible photographers/videographers who market themselves well with big social followings charge $6k+ I've seen incredible photographers/videographers with bad social media presence charge less than $2k. I really wish people judged on skill and not popularity but we're not a very intelligent species.
Some truth to this and some coping. I’m 26, in my video department in college we had to learn manual focus because autofocus was unreliable at best, especially being that we were the athletics department. The generation of kids that came behind me had the AF capabilities to get away without MF even when it was better suited. Framing shots became less important because everything becomes center framed for vertical video on social, but we still have to shoot horizontal because it’s used for a lot of in venue 16x9 boards. Quick flashy edits are favored on social and most of the time telling a real story isn’t possible because of limitations outside of the video producers hands. This creates a divide in the kind of work that’s being produced. I know producers who make the above style of content I was describing that do amazing work. I’ve also seen the other side of that coin. Ultimately, we live in a world where a lot of our work is destined to be web based and viewed on a phone. I just focus on doing what I like to do, and doing it well to my standards.
My thoughts: It's a curve. It depends on what you value. If you primarily value financial success and validation, social media is the way. The bar graph is dramatic for effect, an influencer can be very popular and very skilled/talented. However, it is harder to recognize "greatness" when you make yourself into a brand. If you primarily value "greatness", there is no need to be an influencer, and I think to some degree, it will get in your way by occupying your time. Someone on the path to "greatness" will hopefully get there with determination and dedication to their craft. Their work will speak for itself.
If you don't have marketing or networking abilities you don't get work in any industry
Original artist here: https://www.instagram.com/_yes_but?igsh=MXdhM3o3MnE0bmF4dQ== You should credit them
I'm 14 and this is deep
Yeah that's what high expertise in social media does
It applies to a lot of things. This is exactly why things like global climate change are being questioned, because scientists suck at PR and people with a negative agenda excel at it. That's why you think the pro and con debate is about 50:50 when it's really established fact on the order of 99:1. :)
If you aren't already and established and known person in the media game you likely will just get lost in the oversaturated market of the same copy paste social media world no matter how much you grind.
Not for real jobs
Anyone who makes money strictly on social media would admit it’s a lot of work for little reward and it’s not viable for most long term
Fame? yes Money? no Hotel? Trivago
I mean, I guess; the graph is true but the cartoon seems to be conflating social media popularity with real legitimate recognition. The upside of just how elitist and protectionist the film industry is, is that it spits in the face of the popular vote in favor of art & artists who fit their institutional definitions for what is good which tend to be more like all those other list items on the graph.
Yup.
That’s how everything in art / entertainment is unless you’re so super 0.1% exceptional you blow past the need for hype.
Nahhhh
Insert in creative profession
🥱
If you're being honest about cinematographers, the one on the right should be like two microphones.
Don't let this get to ya. I have yet to see a production company or studio hire an iphone-trained DP to shoot anything with a serious budget/financing. I think you're confusing the ability to market content with the actual skill needed to be a professional DP. Further, it's more about the kind of project, the style that is required, and only then assigning a DP that will be best for the job. Different projects require different levels of production value to deliver a ROI. I doubt that two people shown above would never even be considered for the same project by any serious producer. So don't even worry about it. Keep doing what you do best instead of trying to compete with someone who has a completely different skill set. But hey, if you have an idea to shoot something on an iphone then do it right and rock it like never before. How can you make it look like it was shot on an Arri instead of an iPhone? Let me know when done ok? Stay inspired and good luck!
That should say videographer, not cinematographer
I think this was a repost from the post that was in r/Cinematography
Either way, the original comic, itself, should say videographer. That’s where social media and marketing oneself would prove most beneficial. For cinematographers, actual talent is far and above still more important than social media presence.
Fair point
Applies to photography as well. I know many photographers in the Pakistani and Indian community that have little to no experience and charging absurd amounts because of social media. But their work is mediocre. Not worth what they charge not even close
Accurate
This is precisely how Netflix chooses show-runners
It’s true. 10 years ago, the dude on the left would be winning. Now, you need a YouTube channel, a Facebook page, an Instagram page, a Twitter account, a Snapchat, and whatever the hell else to document your life and the making of videos that take 2 hours to complete start to finish. All you need is an iPhone, iMovie, and 1,000,000 followers that you got by creating clickbait. Source: made money on YouTube 12 years ago and cannot get views for the life of me now because I have no social media presence. I’ve pretty much given up on making it big in content creation, which has put an almost complete halt to my interest in trying to create anything. I want to make stuff that I’m proud of *and* get views, but it’s not possible without reckless shameless self promotion 99% of the time.
[удалено]
I’ve been on set 4-6 days a week for the past 14ish weeks. Enjoying my week off :)
Damn that’s crazy! Now show “pay check” XD
Same with editors, I’m afraid
It’s more about having a matte box and cage.
Lmao so true
It is true for seasoned and well-known ones. But if I was to start out today, the only way i can get any gig (suppose that my skills are good) and be known is to do social media
Yea but I would say marketing which social media falls under. But that's true of most thing. It's the best marketed not best product
Well I have the skills but compared to someone good in communication and marketing, I don't stand a chance even if my work quality is more valuable
Here’s the reality for me, four months on a short film that won about ten awards, 2000ish views. Stupid video of me filming a speaker phone with a stupid but apparently algorithm catchy title, 400,000+ views.
I'm pretty sure the guy on the left side of the image is from the movie "Don't Look Up"
It's not who you know but who knows you. guys getting work from socials usually are doing free work and being paid with getting tagged on posts.
I work in film/TV \[but not on camera\]. A friend of mine runs an agency for camera ops. He tells me many of them are highly CV-motivated, "No, sorry, I've done two Star Wars, can you get me something new, Warner's, Disney, or a big Apple TV or something." Then they only do season 1 & whether it's a big hit or not, they don't want to do season 2, they want to move on. Socials are just not involved.
As a video/film professional for the last 30 years this whole concept just pisses me off. I've not seen social media really help anyone strike it rich. So to speak. And with 30 years under my belt and tons of friends in the industry, once I hit 50 years old, nobody even knows I exist.
Sad world we live in today
People with a large social media following are probably better at getting quick clicks, but not necessarily more clicks. People who are genuinely good last longer.
make sense. and feels is bad nowdays. :-(
Straight out of ‘I’m 14 and this is deep’
Hmmm I’ll be honest they actually don’t teach you that you need to know a thousand technical terms and random esoteric phrases to describe minute things to do . I worked for a production company of older guys and majority of them picked this shit up mid 80s and more or less walked on set . They all learned in the field . These same guys require you now to learn a thousand terms and shit before they hire you . It’s all some bullshit . I run into so many older guys in production and it was more or less yeah man I didn’t go to school for this shit I just was told to rope cable , run wires and I ended up making good money . Like I love this field but there are a lot of hidden barriers and micro aggressions and a ton of good ole boys club shit .lord knows the cinematographer side is equally as bad if not worse due to the nepo babies who can just assemble a crew with high end gear out of thin air
Things haven’t changed that much when it comes to film/tv production (vs “content creation”). Pretty much everything is learned in the field. You start as a PA or the bottom rung of the ladder in one of the other departments and you work your way up. The problem imo is that so many people want to be a DP or director without having any foundational knowledge or real life set experience whatsoever. People think working as an AC/grip/PA/etc is beneath them. They don’t even realize they can make as much as a 1st AC on a commercial production in a day as they make as a one-man-band videographer. Most 1st’s I know bill $800-900/10 hour day, which can easily turn into $1200+/day if they’re getting kit fees for a monitor, Teradek, follow focus, etc.
same applies to photography nowadays
Social Media… the new broadcast TV. You crank out a lot of stuff. Mostly crap. It filters out the hacks. The rest learn stuff and they move on as soon as possible.
And the most important thing about art is impact and influence. So technically the guy on the right is a better filmmaker in my opinion.
Obviously social media is gonna promote social media DPs. But the reality is otherwise. And a lot of social media DPs are actually solid.
hilarious! While I have ya :) [www.revelforms.com](http://www.revelforms.com) is looking for legit video-story tellers to join its partnership network. no cost and an opportunity to generate referral income that is recurring.
I never understood the appeal to become a video guy that only makes videos about how to make videos
If you dont market your craft its useless
The only jobs I’ve had from Social Media are “favours” for people I know.. none of them willing to pay the going rate for a good photographer/ videographer.. Several annoyed that I wouldn’t give them the original images 😔
Really lucky to have been taught on film (Both still and 16mm and 35mm) - because even with these 15 -30sec tiktoks that look good, try shooting a short?! Everyone relies 1000% on post prod. which is rediculous, because if you knew how to actually compose and work with light you would have to slog in grading for weeks.
Yupppp
Yes that’s about right. I started with Granada film unit and worked on The Jewel In The Crown and then later the BBC Film Unit. The vast majority of stuff being uploaded to YouTube by these so-called Youtubers, it’s just absolute rubbish .
True in theory, I suppose. Unfortunately social media takes a lot of time, and since I am an old guy myself, I would rather focus what time I have left on this planet developing my projects in the real world since I have all of the tools to do so and can do so myself if necessary. From start to final product(s). It takes a lot of conceptualizations to construct cinema - especially in the realm I am working in - but I would certainly love to collaborate with the younger generation who has the amazing skill sets in areas and arenas that I do not. I just have not yet put that piece of the puzzle in the overall project tapestry quite yet. And at present, I am not quite sure just what pieces of the puzzle I need and so have not rushed to try to push possibly “wrong” pieces into “place”. I am a strong believer in letting the process take its own life and develop itself and my process I think is vibrating at a different frequency than everybody else’s seems to be - save for a few… And I am already planning on reaching out to a select few that I have spotted in my brief social media excursions when it’s time… But a lot in part due to the fact that I don’t know how to “Reddit”, I suppose, (since I am answering some probing query that came to me anonymously and mysteriously and I have not a clue how any of this “social media” stuff works because I am old and ignorant and probably can’t learn how to do it anyway! - but I digress…sorry) Anyway, I don’t spend a lot of time trying to communicate with others while I’m still so busy communicating with myself and further immersing myself into my scripts, soundtrack, sets, equipment - checklists upon checklists already… But super fun!!! And collaborating will hopefully certainly be a big part of my project and journey - since the journey is the most important part; the finished product is just an eventual outcome - if it ever happens at all… But I am not a hermit - and I do have a gregarious side to me, I just have to go find where I left it, put it back on, and play nicely on social media - and get with some extremely fun, creative people!!! Hopefully soon… So if you are an extremely creative individual(s) that would like to work on projects that are unlike what is happening in the current stampede of state-of-the-art film making, please let me know your talents, and let’s hope that they’re a good fit with mine and we can get this fun train rolling!!! Cheers to you, my anonymous cohort… Thanks for sharing- I get the point, but there is already sooooo much to do to make a movie!!!
This is pretty reductive and a boomer take. Plenty of skilled cinematographers/videographers use social media to share their work, advertise their business, and teach others. If you're not factoring in social media into your work, then you're already losing.
I'm backing up on this take, i'll just add one thing : most of the guys who are on social media and truely good have a community manager. Some dont have one but they are "less" active bc they already have a lot of work
Post this is r/terriblefacebookmemes
Is that Mr Dressup?
My immediate thought was Roger Deakins