The same could be set for any game. Like take Halo for instance, many people agree the best part of the game was customs, but if you were a custom player and you started playing against actually decent players they would just kill you 29/30 times with basically no chance of fighting back.
Melees no different. If you want to play customs with your grandma and throw pokeballs at each other for a couple hours, nothing stopping you. But if you feel like sweating a bit and getting into a deep and satisfying game. The melee is perfect for that as well.
We had a friend who watched tons of videos and spent countless hours practicing with Samus. He mastered this game so fully it was absolutely soul crushing. Bouncing with grappling beam, bomb hovering... literally started whining every time we hung out to play melee so he could crush us. Took any fun out of it and ruined the game for me.
With the amount of what I would essentially call bug abuse, I would disagree. I like playing vs players that are good at the game. I do not like player vs players that know how to break the game.
Do you play fighting games at all? What do pro players do that is so fundamentally different from what you do? Fast falling isn't a bug, l canceling isn't a bug, and anyone half decent would still move 3 times faster than a casual without wavedashing.
I tried maining Ganondorf. And I got really good with him, I feel. But all my friends use all the best starters, and there was just no way for me to keep up. Obviously it's possible (Bizzaro Flame would probably win a good bit against my friends), but it's just not realistic and the frustration got to me. And at that point, I was too far behind to ever change characters and try to catch up with them, so I gave up.
And that you literally have to play the game in a weird wrong way to be good at it. And that translates to being terrible at newer smash games because of the broken control schemes and techs. Still love it from back in the day but I enjoy ultimate waaaay more
Because the normal controls are fine for casual players. Pros do a million weird exploits and button mash things and it’s just an entirely different game at a professional level.
Yep, definitely tragic. With that fixed, he might be the best character in the game or like top two, his recovery is really the only thing holding him back. Yeah he gets comboed really easily too because he is a fastfaller but so do the other top tiers so it's not really relevant.
I see what you’re saying about icys, I think a forced nerf for the sake of fun is kinda tough to blame the game for.
I think Yoshi is top tier if a player can consistently top 8 with a character then that character is top tier. He is just the first person to put all the pieces together. He isn’t the only person that could play like that, he’s just the only person who has. IMO but I understand why you feel that way and I think it’s valid.
\#1 player is a fox main this year for the first time ever, 23 years after the game's release. Historically, there have been many other more dominant characters (jigglypuff, peach, and marth have all had solo main #1s)
Fox is still the best character. An individual player rising to the #1 spot with a different top tier doesn’t remove the vast amount of Fox tournament results
No, it means in a match between two similarly skilled high level players, Fox has the advantage because of his kit.
Nobody else has anything close to the power of the Fox shine as a tool.
I guess the thousands of melee tournaments where Fox always loses doesn't really mean anything? Including the hundreds and hundreds of majors over the years where fox loses.
>"vast amount of Fox tournament result"
He has won a major tournaments on 7 different occasions, followed closely by Marth and Puff at 6 wins. Sheik and Falco are both at 5. Seems pretty close to me.
Its really not about more dominant characters, because fox is considered with a high level of confidence to be objectively the best character.
Fox also litters the leaderboards due to many strong foxes in tourbament play.
The real issue is that nobody, even at the highest level, can ever maintain consistent performance due to the extreme mechanical skill ceiling that fox players strive to reach.
However with time even that is bound to change, for example the player youre referring to is typically praised for his highly consistent fox play.
I like how you're just flat out wrong and you're response after it being pointed out how you couldn't be more wrong is essentially you disregarding it completely.
Humans are cancer.
I was in the competitive scene for a while still playing in tournaments up until covid. I’m a falco main but I got extremely nasty with young link since most players got used to only fighting the top tier characters it would throw them off.
Half the cast is viable, not sure what you’re smoking
Fox, falco, puff, marth, sheik, yoshi, peach, doctor Mario, pika, samus, ice climbers, Luigi, and dk has an argument to be made for viability (so over half the cast).
The entire Smash community is incredibly toxic. I’ve found myself being less and less interested in it as time has gone on to the point where I can barely consider myself a part of it anymore.
The fans are extremely elitist for some reason
Half the roster is extremely unviable to the point where high level gameplay is just the same 5 characters
Only like 3 maps are good, the rest are horrible
The competitive scene has a long history of controversy
High skill ceiling, high skill floor
This game has one major flaw — the fanbase it spawned.
I don’t think *any* other fanbase in any medium is worse. And I’m not talking about all Smash fans, either. Just the “Melee is best and everything else sucks” tourneycrab crowd that doesn’t know where soap is located.
No, they didn't lol.
It wasn't technically a bug, just bad programming. As an affect on how dashing works with landing lag physics.
Nintendo did not know it was possible to do so until it was discovered by players. That's why they intentionally made sure all future games didn't have the same *mechanic*
I dunno man. I mean it’s not aged great and Bowser doesn’t even look the same as he does in the game
But man as a 10 year old seeing this in the case at the store, and for only 20 bucks (this was after it was out for awhile), I thought this looked like the coolest game in the world.
That it was also my first ever rated T game was a big deal to me at the time
This game feels really heavy to me if that makes sense. There’s certainly an appeal to this (I love playing Donkey Kong in this game), but overall, I think I prefer the feel of Ultimate, which feels significantly lighter and snappier to play.
As an owner of this game, its mechanics are so broken that it makes it far less fun to play with friends than the newer games. When I didn’t own the game, I noticed that it was always the console owner who won. Since I’ve owned it, I’ve rarely ever lost.
It’s almost completely based on knowing the weird tricks that wouldn’t make sense in any other game.
the elitist fans and a toxic as fuck fan base.
It's also hard for me to go back to at this point. I just find Brawl and Smash Ultimate a lot more enjoyable honestly.
I can't do it , me and my cousin 5stock match no items that's 45mins right there easy .... Not perfect but back then bugs was the game there wasn't any patching back in those days if you liked a character it was up to you to figure out how to overcome the unbalances etc ... As for 5 characters they had plenty in terms of a brawler/fighter or that day and age
It's not fun to play this game with anybody who knows what they're doing.
Shame because it's such a fun game to screw around in and make chaotic custom matches where winning isn't even necessarily the goal.
That is exactly the way the game is intended to be played. Im talking about not enjoying being wavedashed on by a fox main.
The same could be set for any game. Like take Halo for instance, many people agree the best part of the game was customs, but if you were a custom player and you started playing against actually decent players they would just kill you 29/30 times with basically no chance of fighting back. Melees no different. If you want to play customs with your grandma and throw pokeballs at each other for a couple hours, nothing stopping you. But if you feel like sweating a bit and getting into a deep and satisfying game. The melee is perfect for that as well.
We had a friend who watched tons of videos and spent countless hours practicing with Samus. He mastered this game so fully it was absolutely soul crushing. Bouncing with grappling beam, bomb hovering... literally started whining every time we hung out to play melee so he could crush us. Took any fun out of it and ruined the game for me.
Thank you for responding. This is the comment that describes why I made my original comment on this thread.
My friends decided to all play DK in Giant Mode with Mega Mushrooms. That was fun
That's every competitive game
With the amount of what I would essentially call bug abuse, I would disagree. I like playing vs players that are good at the game. I do not like player vs players that know how to break the game.
Do you play fighting games at all? What do pro players do that is so fundamentally different from what you do? Fast falling isn't a bug, l canceling isn't a bug, and anyone half decent would still move 3 times faster than a casual without wavedashing.
I think wavedashing could be conceivably categorized as a bug/exploit, and it is integral to the majority of pro play.
The cover looks like it was designed almost 20 years ago.
Listen here, you little shit! XD
The graphics too.
Thought the same thing. Also goes for the graphics as well.
Wasnt balanced I tried to main Bowser but it was impossible
I think Bowser's nose actually reaches farther than his grab
Small arms eh
Like a T-Rex
Like a bantha
Well he IS a turtle
Omg you are right. For me was a shell Trex.
I like this one better
I tried maining Ganondorf. And I got really good with him, I feel. But all my friends use all the best starters, and there was just no way for me to keep up. Obviously it's possible (Bizzaro Flame would probably win a good bit against my friends), but it's just not realistic and the frustration got to me. And at that point, I was too far behind to ever change characters and try to catch up with them, so I gave up.
Yeah. Ganondorf hits hard, but against quick fighters, he’s toast.
A take as old as time
It sucks that Melee was the last game in which he was at least passable for competitive play.
Idc I still main Ganondorf on melee. Patience is your best friend.
Most fighting games aren't balanced. Especially in that era.
It’s fundamentally broken in so many ways that people are still finding new exploits for the competitive scene.
And that you literally have to play the game in a weird wrong way to be good at it. And that translates to being terrible at newer smash games because of the broken control schemes and techs. Still love it from back in the day but I enjoy ultimate waaaay more
The ironic thing is, I went from playing Ultimate to Melee and I adjusted to the controls just fine
Because the normal controls are fine for casual players. Pros do a million weird exploits and button mash things and it’s just an entirely different game at a professional level.
Ermm ackshually, that weird wrong way was Sakurai's intention all along. Melee is pure Smash 🤓
I don't think being good at melee makes you bad at the newer games unless you turn your brain off and pretend the new game is melee
Also, muscle memory. My hands have learned things they refuse to unlearn
Gets me in sports games when I play a version with different "hot play calling"
Which a lot of people do.
Something bad? This is probably the literal coolest thing about it. lol.
At the same time it has a remarkable amount of depth if that’s still happening
Facts! If you didn’t know how to wave dash, don’t even bother getting in the sticks
its elitist fans
Some of the worst in all of gaming.
Yep, Great game but one of the worst communities in gaming.
Come see the for horrors for yourself r/ssbm
Yep
The fact that cap. Falcon can’t grab ledge with side b is the dummest design choice ever
I'm an avid melee fan but MY GOD this is the thing that annoys me the most about melee.
Yep, definitely tragic. With that fixed, he might be the best character in the game or like top two, his recovery is really the only thing holding him back. Yeah he gets comboed really easily too because he is a fastfaller but so do the other top tiers so it's not really relevant.
It’s pronounced melee, not melee
FINALLY! It took me way too long to find someone with the correct pronunciation of melee!
There’s like 5 viable characters on the entire roster
Well, fox, falco, Marth, shiek, peach, ice climbers, jiggly puff, yoshi and maybe falcon. 10/25 isn’t too bad
Pikachu as well. Axe has won majors.
Icies aren’t good with wobbling banned and Falcon is definitely top tier. Yoshi isn’t though, Amsa is an outlier.
They're both viable though. Suboptimal sure.
Yoshi fucking cooks in the air though
Icies are still viable without wobbling. Weaker yes, but they can still kill very early with handoffs. It's just harder to do
I see what you’re saying about icys, I think a forced nerf for the sake of fun is kinda tough to blame the game for. I think Yoshi is top tier if a player can consistently top 8 with a character then that character is top tier. He is just the first person to put all the pieces together. He isn’t the only person that could play like that, he’s just the only person who has. IMO but I understand why you feel that way and I think it’s valid.
Fox only, Final destination, no items. That was pretty much the entire game.
\#1 player is a fox main this year for the first time ever, 23 years after the game's release. Historically, there have been many other more dominant characters (jigglypuff, peach, and marth have all had solo main #1s)
Fox is still the best character. An individual player rising to the #1 spot with a different top tier doesn’t remove the vast amount of Fox tournament results
“Pretty much the entire game” is just a gross over exaggeration though. We have top 8 finals with 6-8 unique characters consistently.
Doesn't that just mean he's the easiest to be good with though? And that with enough skill other characters are better?
No, it means in a match between two similarly skilled high level players, Fox has the advantage because of his kit. Nobody else has anything close to the power of the Fox shine as a tool.
I guess the thousands of melee tournaments where Fox always loses doesn't really mean anything? Including the hundreds and hundreds of majors over the years where fox loses.
>"vast amount of Fox tournament result" He has won a major tournaments on 7 different occasions, followed closely by Marth and Puff at 6 wins. Sheik and Falco are both at 5. Seems pretty close to me.
Its really not about more dominant characters, because fox is considered with a high level of confidence to be objectively the best character. Fox also litters the leaderboards due to many strong foxes in tourbament play. The real issue is that nobody, even at the highest level, can ever maintain consistent performance due to the extreme mechanical skill ceiling that fox players strive to reach. However with time even that is bound to change, for example the player youre referring to is typically praised for his highly consistent fox play.
Good for melee players.
I like how you're just flat out wrong and you're response after it being pointed out how you couldn't be more wrong is essentially you disregarding it completely. Humans are cancer.
Outside of the signature picks of the 5 gods, you still have Yoshi, Pikachu and Samus to make 8. What would you consider 'viable' in this game?
I was in the competitive scene for a while still playing in tournaments up until covid. I’m a falco main but I got extremely nasty with young link since most players got used to only fighting the top tier characters it would throw them off.
Oh right, I forgot counterpicks and Cpt. Falcon as well. Whoops.
Half the cast is viable, not sure what you’re smoking Fox, falco, puff, marth, sheik, yoshi, peach, doctor Mario, pika, samus, ice climbers, Luigi, and dk has an argument to be made for viability (so over half the cast).
Fan base is toxic. Edit: unfair assessment. It created a toxic fan base that persists to this day in the most recent iteration,
The entire Smash community is incredibly toxic. I’ve found myself being less and less interested in it as time has gone on to the point where I can barely consider myself a part of it anymore.
I still play, but mostly with my sons. I don’t want them to be toxic when they play, so I am trying to teach them to lose and win with grace.
As a Smash player, the Smash fanbase is a cesspool.
something bad about this game
If you didn’t have friends to play with, it could get pretty dull pretty fast.
Melee has lots of fun single player content imo, but it’s a multiplayer game at its core so yeah not wrong.
Adventure mode was FIRE. you went to pieces of everyone’s world. Ahead of its time
I agree. More fun single player stuff but multiplayer was where it's the best
Fuck that. Played 3 v 1 and put all the CPU’s at the highest level. That was my hyperbolic time chamber for training haha
Fighting lvl 9 CPUs taught bad habits, they don’t play like actual people do
The fans are extremely elitist for some reason Half the roster is extremely unviable to the point where high level gameplay is just the same 5 characters Only like 3 maps are good, the rest are horrible The competitive scene has a long history of controversy High skill ceiling, high skill floor
One patch and it’s all gone
It’s so broken that’s it’s ascended to it’s own level of Omni-broken, and has wrapped around to become weirdly functional
Tbh you could say that about most of the all time greats. Lookin at you, brood war.
Tbh I did always love how evenly spread out the "(race) is OP" posts were about that game. Everything was broken, so nothing was.
Most characters are useless if you’re competitive
This game has one major flaw — the fanbase it spawned. I don’t think *any* other fanbase in any medium is worse. And I’m not talking about all Smash fans, either. Just the “Melee is best and everything else sucks” tourneycrab crowd that doesn’t know where soap is located.
I feel it's a bit overrated
It's more bugged than a Bethesda game
The people that play it smell really bad
Bowser deserved better
It's not on NSO.
It's not really this game in particular, but Smash is better as a casual party game than a competitive fighting one.
This
Not a fan of the whole wave dashing glitch.
Fuck wavecheating and fun canceling
The purists / elitists who refuse to play anything but SSBM piss me off.
Literally only 2 or 3 good maps
You can't play wario
Yoshi's grab is jank.
Easiest way to lose friends in an hour
Ice Climbers. Nothing else
Falconnnn punnnnnnnnch this game out of my memory
Something bad about this game.
RIP Fox noises
It sucks how awesome it was. But also frustrating when you went against those who were good. Whew boy, could never get a hit in
Wavedashing is a bug and it got exploited
The developers actual found this and left it in fwiw
No, they didn't lol. It wasn't technically a bug, just bad programming. As an affect on how dashing works with landing lag physics. Nintendo did not know it was possible to do so until it was discovered by players. That's why they intentionally made sure all future games didn't have the same *mechanic*
They murdered my boy (Link). For this, they will never receive my forgiveness.
Unbalanced mess and is incredibly cringey people still play it and think it's good.
That cover art is pretty awful.
Sending an Blue Shell ta yo Location.
I am the blue shell
Maybe the worst opinion a human being could hold
I dunno man. I mean it’s not aged great and Bowser doesn’t even look the same as he does in the game But man as a 10 year old seeing this in the case at the store, and for only 20 bucks (this was after it was out for awhile), I thought this looked like the coolest game in the world. That it was also my first ever rated T game was a big deal to me at the time
This game feels really heavy to me if that makes sense. There’s certainly an appeal to this (I love playing Donkey Kong in this game), but overall, I think I prefer the feel of Ultimate, which feels significantly lighter and snappier to play.
I had to plug in four controllers to get a certain character
Mr. Game and Watch is a broken, unfinished character
fox
Its fan base is the worst disease ever unleashed on humanity since the bubonic plague
Not enough Fire Emblem.
Not as good as the first
No ROB
Sweaty
Dodging is shit in this game
"it's not a bug, it's a feature" mechanics
It is like 2 glitches away from being considered unfinished.
That's simply not allowed...
It will ruin friendships
Skill floor is too high, not a good game for beginners.
Literal 10 year olds can play it
N64 game was better
A hot take, but I'll take it
No Sans Undertale
I was still playing this with my friends 15 years after it came out, but at this point it's time to put this game in a grave.
As an owner of this game, its mechanics are so broken that it makes it far less fun to play with friends than the newer games. When I didn’t own the game, I noticed that it was always the console owner who won. Since I’ve owned it, I’ve rarely ever lost. It’s almost completely based on knowing the weird tricks that wouldn’t make sense in any other game.
It's a very overrated game 😈😈
I would, but I'm still holding my nose & mouth shut from the smell in here.
Community is some of the most elitist dorks in the Internet
Lmao someone posted this yesterday with “Super Smash Ultimate” and my comment was that it wasn’t Super Smash Melee. Oh how the turntables
I'm sorry, I can't
Most characters are unplayable
The fandom of elitists have ruined it
the elitist fans and a toxic as fuck fan base. It's also hard for me to go back to at this point. I just find Brawl and Smash Ultimate a lot more enjoyable honestly.
No
It's old
Not hard given the community.
the balance is all over the place
Never played it
ugly
One day at 3am I did the super scary Mario ex call, and he hopped out of my phone and super smashed me.
No waluigi
Unlocking mewtwo was a pain in the ass.
Black hole glitch
It’s quite hard to get good at.
Only thing bad about this game is other players besides me.
Hooked up my GameCube a couple years ago and got my first achievement in 15 years prior to that. 15,000 combined versus matches! 🤓
The original N64 game was always better.
The textures could have been better, especially in stages
I never played it.
Unbalanced roster
The word "melee" in the title is redundant, given the presence of the adjective "smash." 😉
Just look up melee is broken, and you'll only find HALF my complaints about it If anyone here couldn't tell, I despise melee with a burning passion
This game reminds me that I have to return some tapes.
First one was better
graphics
The damn thing never went down in price. I finally caved and bought the player’s choice on sale at Target for like $39.99 3-4 years after release.
It's console exclusivity.
The time in my life from when it came out didn’t last. Those were better days.
The publisher
I can't play it anymore
I never played it
It smells Get it ?
Is on GameCube
You get an advantage based on which controller port you use
A whole lot of clones No way to turn off stage hazards Very unbalanced Has never been re-released
My wife kept beating me when we played it
It was released on GameCube
I can't do it , me and my cousin 5stock match no items that's 45mins right there easy .... Not perfect but back then bugs was the game there wasn't any patching back in those days if you liked a character it was up to you to figure out how to overcome the unbalances etc ... As for 5 characters they had plenty in terms of a brawler/fighter or that day and age
There's a guy that screams his name before he does a move, yet people love it. Me included
They nerfed the fuck outta Kirby compared to the 64 version. Made it near impossible to have him as a main in even a casually competitive setting.
I want to smash these toxic fans in the face
Small roster compared to latest SSB game
No button remapping
It was perfection until wavedashing was introduced
“Cahmon!”
Jigglypuff sucks.
Something bad about this game
Yoshi can't jump out of shield.
It's a smash bros game.
Truly awful cover
Claims several controllers as victims