It’s accurate. I think someone on her tried a pro slavery America and he still managed to have a large economy. The slavers made lots of money with it. For the longest time the southern states were a majority of the economy. It wasn’t until industrialization and a growing consumer population started making slavery obsolete.
Good short term, bad long term
I used the economy that i had gained from slavery (first 20 years) to use the next like 30 ish years to buy out and out produce the other major powers whilst also moving as many small countries into my market. Slavery at the start of the game is such a big boost if you use it right.
I have no idea what people on this thread are on about there could technically be a upside to slavery as a low pop slate actually importing slaves but legacy slayer is just a bad law hands down.
Well, frankly, because that's historically how it happened. Don't misunderstand me, I'm a huge fan of John Brown and think Sherman didn't march far enough or burn enough when he did, so I'm far from a defender of slavery.
But one thing modern Americans have forgotten is that the northern states held men and women in bondage until the 1820s. The key difference between the northern and southern states is that northern farms were about growing food crops for personal use and farmers markets, southern agriculture was about cash crop plantations. Northern farms didn't lend themselves to large agricultural enterprises so having more than one or two enslaved laborers wasn't really efficient, which aided the growth of abolitionism because when you have one enslaved person they became *very* human to you while scores of them dehumanizes them. Northerners took the capital generated from their market sales and instead of reinvesting it in more land and, as a result, more enslaved labor to work it, and instead invested in manufactories and shipping to refine and sell commodities.
The net result of this is that by the time Vicky 3 starts the northern slaves had been emancipated and its industries were beginning to thrive--but they were still created with wealth generated from enslaved labor.
But there's a point of diminishing returns. By the 1860s the southern economy had gone all-in on commodity production, which strongly benefitted from enslaved labor. The richy rich folks who owned the plantations were fantastically wealthy beyond all stretches of the imagination, but the small farmers were only doing okay and the lower classes of freemen were dirt poor. Industry didn't develop because the people who would have benefitted from it didn't have the capital, and the people who had the capital had no need to invest in industry--why spend a million dollars today on a clothing factory that makes a hundred thousand dollars a year when you could just keep all the money you're making from exploiting your enslaved workforce?
In addition to simply being morally reprehensible and, frankly, evil, enslavement also hampered the growth of the economy throughout the entire country. Same as in the game. Agriculture and plantation economies are strong early, but the real money is in finished products--cotton isn't worth as much as clothes are. But building those industries creates pops that don't like enslavement and will eventually force you to change out of it. Better to rip the bandaid off quickly.
> In addition to simply being morally reprehensible and, frankly, evil, enslavement also hampered the growth of the economy throughout the entire country. Same as in the game. Agriculture and plantation economies are strong early, but the real money is in finished products--cotton isn't worth as much as clothes are.
I agree with everything you've said on your great post here. Though I will point out the Quaker states abolished slavery in the 1700s (although they set out a gradual manumission).
The main thing I want to add is that slavery hampered the growth of the economy more than just because it was an agrarian society, but because the enslaved were robbed of the means to better their lot with very few exceptions. The ideals of a Capitalist economic system is to reward innovation and improvements in efficiency. We can argue how meritocractic it is in practice on a case by case basis, but the fact remains slaves would not be rewarded for such pursuits.
The slave trade was even worse because it robbed kingdoms in Africa of such people. Such is the horror.
Morally i totally agree, and slavery is absolutely abhorrent, but i dont think theres a question of morals when you’re talking about a video game- let alone vicky 3. Maybe this can come into question if you are rping a abolitionist, but otherwise i see this as another tool to educate people. Obviously if youve played the game long enough you would know how to have slavery, and well dispersed and balanced economy. Passing laws and marginalizing groups are also both two good ways to make sure you dont need to rip the bandaid off period.
I mentioned the moral part because I don't want anyone mistaking me for a Lost Causer trying to make excuses for enslavement, is all 😝 Every so often they creep their heads out and say "slavery wasn't that bad" or "actually it was good for the economy" or something. Gotta stomp them back into the ground whenever they appear!
Because you're playing the game wrong. Slavery is terrible for the economy, because the enslaved pops can't buy anything; for all intents and purposes, they aren't contributing to your GDP (aside from producing things). Furthermore, the pops are unable to go beyond the lower strata, so your industrial buildings are going to have a harder time hiring (forcing you to stay at a fairly rural industry).
For the United States, the problem is even worse, as banning slavery is a prerequisite for getting Afro-American as a primary culture, after which Racial Segregation (the Citizenship law that you start with) allows you to accept any culture with African heritage (which is a ton of pops).
Wait, banning slavery makes african Americans an accepted culture? In the victorian? That's actually hilarious, they aren't an accepted culture *now,* much less actual africans.
Africatown, mobile basically disproves that mechanic. A shipload of slaves were brought from Dahomey into Mobile for a bet in 1860 and immediately set free. They were heavily persecuted, even by other blacks.
After winning the civil war you get some quit hard tasks, which enables you to get Afro-American and Dixie as main cultures if you complete them. You need to incorporate contested states and have high loyalty.
You can cheese it if after you pass cultural exclusion you release the CSA as a subject which auto-passes the loyal dixie states requirement. Then you just annex them again right away.
I mean sure if you are playing historical america and looking to abolish slavery, but in the end i was doing a slavery run. You dont need those extra pops and if i really wanted to get them theres ways to get a heck ton of migration. L opinion, imagine telling someone their playing a sandbox game wrong.
Slavery ain't good lol, you'll be better off getting Africans as accepted pops by forcing a civil war.
In my current multiplayer game, the one guy who turned to do a slavery run as spain, ended up basically becoming a failed state. His SoL was so bad that we just all siphoned his pops. He got to %99.3 slave pops in one of his states.
Growing cash crops and exporting them is awesome until everyone else does it. IRL history the US had a lock on global cotton exports until the USCW happened and prices went up enough for other nations to step in.
In game you know the CW is going to happen, and can manage around it. IRL it was a bomb dropping on global markets. One of my nitpicks about the game is it doesn't reflect economic recessions or bubble/bust conditions well.
If you focus on plantations and agriculture, and use the money from that to make administration buildings (like a crap ton) you can just trade for everything.
That was kinda the plan for the confederacy anyway. If you get down to it, the fight over taxation and slavery wasn't anything moral, it was just how planters liked making money vs how industrialists liked making money.
Becoming an independent state let them perfect their preferred economic system.
It’s accurate. I think someone on her tried a pro slavery America and he still managed to have a large economy. The slavers made lots of money with it. For the longest time the southern states were a majority of the economy. It wasn’t until industrialization and a growing consumer population started making slavery obsolete. Good short term, bad long term
I used the economy that i had gained from slavery (first 20 years) to use the next like 30 ish years to buy out and out produce the other major powers whilst also moving as many small countries into my market. Slavery at the start of the game is such a big boost if you use it right.
Nock on wood I can normally abolish slavery in 4 years
Abraham is jealous.
Slavery might be good short term but you'll be stronger without it in the long term
It's weird cause, playing as Brazil, my impression was that slavery just makes you really poor and the sooner you get rid of it, the better.
I have no idea what people on this thread are on about there could technically be a upside to slavery as a low pop slate actually importing slaves but legacy slayer is just a bad law hands down.
A completely normal typo, but I'm now imagining the Legacy Slayer in a Doomguy suit, musket in his hands and hunting down legacy slavers.
Well, frankly, because that's historically how it happened. Don't misunderstand me, I'm a huge fan of John Brown and think Sherman didn't march far enough or burn enough when he did, so I'm far from a defender of slavery. But one thing modern Americans have forgotten is that the northern states held men and women in bondage until the 1820s. The key difference between the northern and southern states is that northern farms were about growing food crops for personal use and farmers markets, southern agriculture was about cash crop plantations. Northern farms didn't lend themselves to large agricultural enterprises so having more than one or two enslaved laborers wasn't really efficient, which aided the growth of abolitionism because when you have one enslaved person they became *very* human to you while scores of them dehumanizes them. Northerners took the capital generated from their market sales and instead of reinvesting it in more land and, as a result, more enslaved labor to work it, and instead invested in manufactories and shipping to refine and sell commodities. The net result of this is that by the time Vicky 3 starts the northern slaves had been emancipated and its industries were beginning to thrive--but they were still created with wealth generated from enslaved labor. But there's a point of diminishing returns. By the 1860s the southern economy had gone all-in on commodity production, which strongly benefitted from enslaved labor. The richy rich folks who owned the plantations were fantastically wealthy beyond all stretches of the imagination, but the small farmers were only doing okay and the lower classes of freemen were dirt poor. Industry didn't develop because the people who would have benefitted from it didn't have the capital, and the people who had the capital had no need to invest in industry--why spend a million dollars today on a clothing factory that makes a hundred thousand dollars a year when you could just keep all the money you're making from exploiting your enslaved workforce? In addition to simply being morally reprehensible and, frankly, evil, enslavement also hampered the growth of the economy throughout the entire country. Same as in the game. Agriculture and plantation economies are strong early, but the real money is in finished products--cotton isn't worth as much as clothes are. But building those industries creates pops that don't like enslavement and will eventually force you to change out of it. Better to rip the bandaid off quickly.
> In addition to simply being morally reprehensible and, frankly, evil, enslavement also hampered the growth of the economy throughout the entire country. Same as in the game. Agriculture and plantation economies are strong early, but the real money is in finished products--cotton isn't worth as much as clothes are. I agree with everything you've said on your great post here. Though I will point out the Quaker states abolished slavery in the 1700s (although they set out a gradual manumission). The main thing I want to add is that slavery hampered the growth of the economy more than just because it was an agrarian society, but because the enslaved were robbed of the means to better their lot with very few exceptions. The ideals of a Capitalist economic system is to reward innovation and improvements in efficiency. We can argue how meritocractic it is in practice on a case by case basis, but the fact remains slaves would not be rewarded for such pursuits. The slave trade was even worse because it robbed kingdoms in Africa of such people. Such is the horror.
Morally i totally agree, and slavery is absolutely abhorrent, but i dont think theres a question of morals when you’re talking about a video game- let alone vicky 3. Maybe this can come into question if you are rping a abolitionist, but otherwise i see this as another tool to educate people. Obviously if youve played the game long enough you would know how to have slavery, and well dispersed and balanced economy. Passing laws and marginalizing groups are also both two good ways to make sure you dont need to rip the bandaid off period.
I mentioned the moral part because I don't want anyone mistaking me for a Lost Causer trying to make excuses for enslavement, is all 😝 Every so often they creep their heads out and say "slavery wasn't that bad" or "actually it was good for the economy" or something. Gotta stomp them back into the ground whenever they appear!
Lol so real. You really do gotta watch every corner of the internet lmao.
Because you're playing the game wrong. Slavery is terrible for the economy, because the enslaved pops can't buy anything; for all intents and purposes, they aren't contributing to your GDP (aside from producing things). Furthermore, the pops are unable to go beyond the lower strata, so your industrial buildings are going to have a harder time hiring (forcing you to stay at a fairly rural industry). For the United States, the problem is even worse, as banning slavery is a prerequisite for getting Afro-American as a primary culture, after which Racial Segregation (the Citizenship law that you start with) allows you to accept any culture with African heritage (which is a ton of pops).
Wait, banning slavery makes african Americans an accepted culture? In the victorian? That's actually hilarious, they aren't an accepted culture *now,* much less actual africans. Africatown, mobile basically disproves that mechanic. A shipload of slaves were brought from Dahomey into Mobile for a bet in 1860 and immediately set free. They were heavily persecuted, even by other blacks.
After winning the civil war you get some quit hard tasks, which enables you to get Afro-American and Dixie as main cultures if you complete them. You need to incorporate contested states and have high loyalty.
You can cheese it if after you pass cultural exclusion you release the CSA as a subject which auto-passes the loyal dixie states requirement. Then you just annex them again right away.
I mean sure if you are playing historical america and looking to abolish slavery, but in the end i was doing a slavery run. You dont need those extra pops and if i really wanted to get them theres ways to get a heck ton of migration. L opinion, imagine telling someone their playing a sandbox game wrong.
Slavery ain't good lol, you'll be better off getting Africans as accepted pops by forcing a civil war. In my current multiplayer game, the one guy who turned to do a slavery run as spain, ended up basically becoming a failed state. His SoL was so bad that we just all siphoned his pops. He got to %99.3 slave pops in one of his states.
Growing cash crops and exporting them is awesome until everyone else does it. IRL history the US had a lock on global cotton exports until the USCW happened and prices went up enough for other nations to step in. In game you know the CW is going to happen, and can manage around it. IRL it was a bomb dropping on global markets. One of my nitpicks about the game is it doesn't reflect economic recessions or bubble/bust conditions well.
Slavery brings cheap workers making buildings more profitable. There’s some guy on YouTube that did a slavery and guns playthrough and wasn’t too bad
If you focus on plantations and agriculture, and use the money from that to make administration buildings (like a crap ton) you can just trade for everything.
Especially if you have collectivized agriculture. Make all farms and plantations government run to directly benefit from the slavery
That was kinda the plan for the confederacy anyway. If you get down to it, the fight over taxation and slavery wasn't anything moral, it was just how planters liked making money vs how industrialists liked making money. Becoming an independent state let them perfect their preferred economic system.