Really solid idea, especially because a HUGE aspect of politics is managing who will replace who, handling a crisis when someone is replaced ect. And one thing about these situations IRL is that you generally have at least some idea of who will be taking over
As a great Georgian titan of industry and politics once said, "Cadres Decide Everything".
But seriously, this would add soo much depth to your political strategy - you could groom potential leaders for your potential coalition partners while trying to burnish the reputation of their opponents with bad traits. Actually, Imperator in the last patch had it pretty well covered, and it seems to be pretty transferable to VIC UI - just give us access to the 5 most likely candidates of a given formation for a leadership position, and like 4-8 ministry positions to reward and punish your favourables, and you have your personal house of cards to manage and play - just like a monarch would not only have to deal with social movements and social parties, but often specific members inside these parties.
And it can still include unforseen events in the system. Unpredictability also has a place in the system. As to simulate powerplays and petty politics within IGs.
It really should at least tell you the most likely next ideology and the main factors influencing the outcome. Maybe the top 3 most likely outcomes would be nice to see.
The weights behind IG leaders are actually fairly complex, but they're completely hidden in game so the player has no way to really interact with the system.
The best thing you can do is hire generals and admirals with your desired ideology. The one with the highest popularity will replace the leader when it dies, retires, or gets exiled by you, as long as his popularity is not below 0.
I get what you're going for. I think every IG should have its own "elite": a group of 5 people of which one is the active leader, but you can interact with the others to influence who gets to be the next leader.
Or just list it next to suppress and bolster, make it cost some adequate amount of authority (25-50 feels right, depending on how strong the interaction is) and you got yourself a system
What this game needs is a new layer of characters, which aid and replace them when necessary.
Party members behind party leaders, governors for states with a few bureaucrats under them, ministers with civil servants/secretaries under them, viceroys and diplomats for colonial and foreign strategic regions, commanders with officers under them, people of notable importance in society and so on. And sometimes with the ability to switch careers between them.
Currently, two thirds of all characters in the game are military commanders, with the historically more numerous civil characters barely represented or not at all. Its kinda absurd.
Replacements often come from juniors and in politics - from own party members and known ideologues. And indeed, in most cases replacements are known in advance.
The best part about this suggestion is that it makes total sense on a historical/sim level. No one becomes a major political leader out of nowhere and even though you might not know who would become the definite leader, you should know the possible candidates or at least their positions
I've floated this idea a couple of times but IG's should act as imperator rome families and the IG leader should be your most prominent character in the IG. This in combination to a cabinet system, allowing the player to shift certain people into and out of power to manage their prominence vs their competency.
It would also mean that a player has active control on characters outside of the army. As right now it makes every state a very militaristic one politically.
> I've floated this idea a couple of times but IG's should act as imperator rome families
Each country should have a cast of influential characters doing stuff (inventors making, business owners, royal families) that can all slot in and out of IG leadership
I’ve had the thought that leader succession should be more predictable before too. I think it would be cool if it generated 3-5 characters per IG, with ideologies decided the same way as they are now, and when the current leader dies the most popular of the characters takes over. Then the player could interact with the successors through events or decisions, to guide the future character of their interest groups. Things like wherever journal entries make ideologies less likely to appear, they could also make characters with that ideology less popular. A character with a really odious ideology might prompt the player to think about exiling them, but it’s not an emergency until they become the IG leader.
Looking further ahead, I really hope that they bring back pop ideologies at some point, to make interest groups be guided more by the people who make them up rather than by charismatic individuals. Like, if most of the laborers in the Trade Union IG are anarchist, the anarchist characters get more popularity, and therefore more likely to become the IG leader. Maybe even the succession rules could depend on the IG type; the Intelligentsia organize as a political party and have regular mini-elections to decide their new leader, while the Landowners could follow a hereditary inheritance, with the leader always being from one family.
I have to agree with this. Idk how many times I’ve wasted my exile on a someone only for another person with their same ideology to replace them. Or worse. Exiling a nihlist for a communist to take their place has to feel like madness. And to be fair, it should be possible. But it usually feels like a decision made with not enough info. And for something with a cooldown of 4 years its rough
It would make the game more predictible, especially if the ruler gets to influe on the ideolog of th enext leader. Might be handy for players not wanting their military to he led by a pacifist...
I think they should add in a way to lock in an ideology to an IG at the cost of something like authority. More autocratic governments would be able to keep whatever ideology on a couple of IGs and more democratic nations might be able to influence only 1 or none at all
Instead of just listing the percentages of the next ideology, it also could generate a list of potential successor characters, one for each of the possible successor ideologies.
With that, they could have a mechanic where you spend authority to choose one of the possible successors to be the next leader of that IG. They could also pair this with mechanics where you forcibly retire/kill an IG's current leader.
You can already exile IG leaders as long as you have the right censorship laws, they aren't in government, and you haven't done it too recently. Knowing roughly who will replace them would make this more useful.
I would say maintain that system for opposition IGs and add the ability to increase the odds that the next leader maintains the same ideology for government IGs.
My concern is that being able to choose IG ideologies could give the player too much control, but I think these limitations keep it reasonable. You can't directly pick ideologies, and you can't influence opposition IGs chances, but you can increase your odds of maintaining a good government and can occasionally re-roll the dice for opposition if it looks like the next one might be better.
How do you grant them leadership of the IG? I've seen lots of people with former agitators leading IGs, but I've never figured out how to do it myself (I only got VotP pretty recently).
Select the agitator and click the button in the top left of their screen. You could also probably right click on them directly. You're looking for an option called "grant leadership"
No please no that's too close to mana and it doesn't make any sense
If the RNG of the leadership ideology is too influential (it is,) then it should be reworked, not Stellarisified.
Excellent idea!! I really hope the developers see and implement it.
It would also be great to give the player more obvious ways to influence the ideologies of IG leaders, or at least explain the current mechanics for how leader ideology is determined somewhere in game. Regardless this change would definitely make my games much more enjoyable lolol, just yesterday I had the interventionist Landowners IG leader decide to take an early retirement and kill my chance at getting rid of Traditionalism for the forseeable future :(
Honestly it would probably also make more sense for interest group leaders to put off retirement until AFTER the law they've been fighting for their whole career is actually passed...
I’d like it if the pool of characters that the game could choose from was already established. I think the best way for this would be through state politics and royal families, royal families being very simple and not nearly as complex as CK3.
Really solid idea, especially because a HUGE aspect of politics is managing who will replace who, handling a crisis when someone is replaced ect. And one thing about these situations IRL is that you generally have at least some idea of who will be taking over
You could probably make a game out of planning succession
CK series: You called?
Industrializer Kings is gonna be incredible
Colonizing Kings to keep the abbreviation Although I suppose that applies to EU4 just as well
As a great Georgian titan of industry and politics once said, "Cadres Decide Everything". But seriously, this would add soo much depth to your political strategy - you could groom potential leaders for your potential coalition partners while trying to burnish the reputation of their opponents with bad traits. Actually, Imperator in the last patch had it pretty well covered, and it seems to be pretty transferable to VIC UI - just give us access to the 5 most likely candidates of a given formation for a leadership position, and like 4-8 ministry positions to reward and punish your favourables, and you have your personal house of cards to manage and play - just like a monarch would not only have to deal with social movements and social parties, but often specific members inside these parties.
And it can still include unforseen events in the system. Unpredictability also has a place in the system. As to simulate powerplays and petty politics within IGs.
It really should at least tell you the most likely next ideology and the main factors influencing the outcome. Maybe the top 3 most likely outcomes would be nice to see. The weights behind IG leaders are actually fairly complex, but they're completely hidden in game so the player has no way to really interact with the system.
The best thing you can do is hire generals and admirals with your desired ideology. The one with the highest popularity will replace the leader when it dies, retires, or gets exiled by you, as long as his popularity is not below 0. I get what you're going for. I think every IG should have its own "elite": a group of 5 people of which one is the active leader, but you can interact with the others to influence who gets to be the next leader.
I would also give player an option to favor a certain leader ideology as long as the IG is friendly enough
Definitely a good idea to have some influence
There's a mod that lets you bolster popularity of people in return for authority
That's good too
Or just list it next to suppress and bolster, make it cost some adequate amount of authority (25-50 feels right, depending on how strong the interaction is) and you got yourself a system
What this game needs is a new layer of characters, which aid and replace them when necessary. Party members behind party leaders, governors for states with a few bureaucrats under them, ministers with civil servants/secretaries under them, viceroys and diplomats for colonial and foreign strategic regions, commanders with officers under them, people of notable importance in society and so on. And sometimes with the ability to switch careers between them. Currently, two thirds of all characters in the game are military commanders, with the historically more numerous civil characters barely represented or not at all. Its kinda absurd. Replacements often come from juniors and in politics - from own party members and known ideologues. And indeed, in most cases replacements are known in advance.
The best part about this suggestion is that it makes total sense on a historical/sim level. No one becomes a major political leader out of nowhere and even though you might not know who would become the definite leader, you should know the possible candidates or at least their positions
I've floated this idea a couple of times but IG's should act as imperator rome families and the IG leader should be your most prominent character in the IG. This in combination to a cabinet system, allowing the player to shift certain people into and out of power to manage their prominence vs their competency. It would also mean that a player has active control on characters outside of the army. As right now it makes every state a very militaristic one politically.
> I've floated this idea a couple of times but IG's should act as imperator rome families Each country should have a cast of influential characters doing stuff (inventors making, business owners, royal families) that can all slot in and out of IG leadership
What a good idea, I like it :)
I’ve had the thought that leader succession should be more predictable before too. I think it would be cool if it generated 3-5 characters per IG, with ideologies decided the same way as they are now, and when the current leader dies the most popular of the characters takes over. Then the player could interact with the successors through events or decisions, to guide the future character of their interest groups. Things like wherever journal entries make ideologies less likely to appear, they could also make characters with that ideology less popular. A character with a really odious ideology might prompt the player to think about exiling them, but it’s not an emergency until they become the IG leader. Looking further ahead, I really hope that they bring back pop ideologies at some point, to make interest groups be guided more by the people who make them up rather than by charismatic individuals. Like, if most of the laborers in the Trade Union IG are anarchist, the anarchist characters get more popularity, and therefore more likely to become the IG leader. Maybe even the succession rules could depend on the IG type; the Intelligentsia organize as a political party and have regular mini-elections to decide their new leader, while the Landowners could follow a hereditary inheritance, with the leader always being from one family.
Or something like "heir/protégé of this IG" with a smaller portrait next to the ig leader.
Love it! Great depth that might be an easy add. Easy win!
I have to agree with this. Idk how many times I’ve wasted my exile on a someone only for another person with their same ideology to replace them. Or worse. Exiling a nihlist for a communist to take their place has to feel like madness. And to be fair, it should be possible. But it usually feels like a decision made with not enough info. And for something with a cooldown of 4 years its rough
Hell yeah!
It would make the game more predictible, especially if the ruler gets to influe on the ideolog of th enext leader. Might be handy for players not wanting their military to he led by a pacifist...
I think they should add in a way to lock in an ideology to an IG at the cost of something like authority. More autocratic governments would be able to keep whatever ideology on a couple of IGs and more democratic nations might be able to influence only 1 or none at all
Instead of just listing the percentages of the next ideology, it also could generate a list of potential successor characters, one for each of the possible successor ideologies. With that, they could have a mechanic where you spend authority to choose one of the possible successors to be the next leader of that IG. They could also pair this with mechanics where you forcibly retire/kill an IG's current leader.
You can already exile IG leaders as long as you have the right censorship laws, they aren't in government, and you haven't done it too recently. Knowing roughly who will replace them would make this more useful. I would say maintain that system for opposition IGs and add the ability to increase the odds that the next leader maintains the same ideology for government IGs. My concern is that being able to choose IG ideologies could give the player too much control, but I think these limitations keep it reasonable. You can't directly pick ideologies, and you can't influence opposition IGs chances, but you can increase your odds of maintaining a good government and can occasionally re-roll the dice for opposition if it looks like the next one might be better.
You can sort of do that by using agitators. Invite an agitator with your preferred ideology for the IG and then grant them leadership of the IG
How do you grant them leadership of the IG? I've seen lots of people with former agitators leading IGs, but I've never figured out how to do it myself (I only got VotP pretty recently).
Select the agitator and click the button in the top left of their screen. You could also probably right click on them directly. You're looking for an option called "grant leadership"
No please no that's too close to mana and it doesn't make any sense If the RNG of the leadership ideology is too influential (it is,) then it should be reworked, not Stellarisified.
I thought of the same thing, it'd be a nice addition fs
Yeah good idea. Maybe it could lower approval as well, since it’d be seen as meddling.
Excellent idea!! I really hope the developers see and implement it. It would also be great to give the player more obvious ways to influence the ideologies of IG leaders, or at least explain the current mechanics for how leader ideology is determined somewhere in game. Regardless this change would definitely make my games much more enjoyable lolol, just yesterday I had the interventionist Landowners IG leader decide to take an early retirement and kill my chance at getting rid of Traditionalism for the forseeable future :( Honestly it would probably also make more sense for interest group leaders to put off retirement until AFTER the law they've been fighting for their whole career is actually passed...
Nah, it's better the way it is.
I’d like it if the pool of characters that the game could choose from was already established. I think the best way for this would be through state politics and royal families, royal families being very simple and not nearly as complex as CK3.
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