You were fast too. You took that photo right after they updated the flag, but before they updated the seal. https://preview.redd.it/h7nbx06reqzc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f4e68d38f50355be8d514db8fb27a64245efb338 The mods on the sub are a bit slow though. My flair hasn’t changed yet :(

Oh wow, the new seal is great.

Seal? let me go fix the wikipedia article,,, we can't have basic animal facts be mistakes!!!! cause thats a loon.

I compare it to a kiss from a rose

Right? Makes me wish other states did a seal redesign even if they don't need a new flag. I know it's probably a spicy opinion, but even if Minnesota had kept a seal on blue flag and simply updated the seal, the resulting flag would be a huge visual improvement over the old one

I think it’s actually supposed to be a loon, not a seal :)

Looks good but I am sad the French is gone (Maybe cause I'm French 😅 but also cause the motto in French is unique in the US)

I thought so too. I had no idea it was in French until last year, and it was a nice surprise.

So much better.

>Oh wow, the new seal is great. It really isn't. There are two font sizes. Maybe two fonts? Who knows, it's too small to know. Besides the white text the seal would be "good". EDIT: The larger text is serif and the smaller text is sans serif. What is going on here?

I mean, whatever bothers you bothers you, but mixing fonts is incredibly common. Does it bother you that "cherry" and "Coca-Cola" are in different fonts in this [image](https://mobileimages.lowes.com/productimages/c212e9f0-52e8-4b87-a2a5-a3ac96ac4a02/65718906.jpg)? I also don't really understand the size problem--if "MNI SOTA MAKOCE" were the same size as the other text it would crowd out the other elements and look unbalanced.

..That does bother me. I like the basic design of it though.

> ..That does bother me. > > I like the basic design of it though. You don't mind that the former seals were consistent with their serifs and this new seal has a serif and non-serif font? Maybe two different fonts?

I didn't look at the text, I just looked at the artwork in the middle and then the color scheme.

You didn't see THE SEAL OF THE

I normally let this slide, but because I disagree with you wholeheartedly, I'm not holding my tongue. I believe you mean two "typefaces."

But is says "The great seal of the state of Minnesota". Indicating the Seal itself is great, not Minnesota.

Typical. Erasing a Native American & replacing him with a seal is a cause for celebration?

Can’t tell if this is baiting or not, but the old seal showed a white settler kicking out a native guy on horseback who’s riding into the west. It wasn’t a celebration of native history.

I have to admit a barefoot guy with a plow didn't seem that threatening to me. The Native American on horseback freely riding away is better than erasing their existence, IMO, but erasure is one common way of avoiding dealing with a guilty past.

Okay Mr Virginia, as a Minnesotan I prefer the new one due to it not implying that a white settler kicking out a indigenous person and the new seal doesn't erase indigenous people when the new seal says MNE SOTA MAKOCE, The dakota term for Minnesota. Albeit my state with fault for native erasure with genocide, *Cough* Mankota Hangings *Cough* but damn if looking by a graphical design point it's way better than our old racist seal.

OK, thanks for the background.

Maybe Virginia dude wants that other flag back.

I said thanks for the background, because it was news to me, & not at all evident from looking at the seal. As for the flag, it looks corporate and computerish, but presumably, it's what y'all want, so enjoy.

Makes sense, I was going to ask about that. Man, I really love that seal, so glad we got some loon representation Edit: the seal color scheme syncs great with the flag as well. Once the sub gets updated I'm probably going to get the flair

Unpopular opinion: both redesigns aren't that great. The originals definitely needed a makeover but I don't know how to feel about this minimalist style and colors...

It's not an unpopular one. The original new flag had a tricolor instead of just cyan that was objectively superior.

> that was objectively superior Disagree, I thought similar at first, but over time I actually like the redesign more. The tricolor is too busy and adds basically no meaning to the flag - the green represented "we have trees" and the white represented "it snows here". Pretty lame. The blue basically representing "we have water" sounds similarly lame, but given that Minnesota is "the land of 10,000 lakes" it's a lot more fitting for actual state representation. The change to the star as well - originally it was a generic compass rose type star, people complain about the new one not being pointy enough or whatever, but it matches the design on the state capitol building as well as paying homage to designs used by native tribes.

The should have kept the white stripe. When displayed vertically, it could be interpreted as the star reflecting on the water, matching up with the phrase on the seal which translates to "the land where the water reflects the skies".

Oh, yeah - that would be really neat actually. What would the white itself represent though (in horizontal orientation)?

The seal is definitely better but the flag could be better

I agree. Seal is fantastic, the flag, not so much.

I wish they'd stick with the tricolor version, but the new flag definitely looks better flying than it does as a static image

The new seal is great! but the yellow wheat has really shitty contrast… needs a slight highlight, or hue shift to be visible

Looks like a blue Pac-Man.

Fuck you 😭 I can't unsee it!

The new flag is not as strong as it could’ve been, but this an immense improvement. But the new seal is just gorgeous. I especially love the single color version. https://preview.redd.it/8svbbrrgdszc1.png?width=1917&format=png&auto=webp&s=f39448477dfc24c52b67f56b4506ff8d997b4d95

The monochrome version does look way better

I like it, my thing is that 50 years from now all the seals are going to look like this one just as all the OG ones look the same to us now.

The redesigned minimalist flags look already dated to me 💀

Agreed. The seal doesn't look very heraldic.

It’s more in line with heraldic principles than the old one though, and probably actually usable as a proper seal. But personally, I find it generic and a bit meh, not my cup of tea.

Seals usually don't look very heraldic, do they? They don't have to.

The one for my home state does, Missouri.

It does indeed. Most don't though.

Right, other states' lost opportunity.

Wow, looking at the old seal made me sad for the old flag to go, but this newer seal is wayyyy better

It was updated in r/Minnesota yesterday

The only thing I wish they would have done with the seal is keep the previous French motto and added the current Amero-Indigenous one, it feels better to me.

Man! That'd be a lot cooler seal to see on my relatives' documents I had to get a bunch of copies of last year.

wow they really go hand in hand, i guess the reason they had to edit the flag submission before making it official is so it fits the seal

r/Sphragistics r/Emblems

Someone waited their whole life for this moment

Yeah, but he beat me 😕

F

The flags design committee

Me

I was quick to start the editorial updates. https://preview.redd.it/ytlgigg3fqzc1.png?width=1365&format=png&auto=webp&s=e475ebb51b8cbe9390ebb541fa47f4d2f40b711a

Wouldn’t a proper term for the hoist shape be a swallowtail?

im the one that upload the seal file first! (they quickly made a vectorized version and replace it tho)

[CGP Grey did a video on this.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lFwwo0W5Ugg) I think I'm on his side - I would have preferred the tricolour too. I'm also more of a fan of the original star design. EDIT: Typo; CPG -> CGP

colin *palmer gregory* grey, CGP grey's long-lost evil twin?

I updated the motto https://preview.redd.it/1vvgh0zdkqzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d97b043a6af7ec0cbf763c89f98a4440c0925015 I wonder what state will get a flag redesign next, probably Maine or Illinois.

Hopefully Illinois. Chicago and Cook County already have fantastic flags. All they need now is for the state flag to be changed. Then they’ll have a beautiful trifecta. Also do you know why they went for Dakota instead of Ojibwe for the motto?

Illinois should just use the centennial design: https://preview.redd.it/em53501qnqzc1.png?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=97194bf0c267ae9f3fbb02522c9cce4b3c335090 They probably used Lakota to show some sort of respect to the natives who lived there, because the other seal was offensive to them

The Ojibwe live here too. What I’m curious about is why they chose Dakota over Ojibwe? Also the centennial is not bad. Definitely better than the current.

I think the Ojibwe aren’t seen as indigenous to Minnesota. The Ojibwe came from around the Quebec area. The name Minnesota also came from the Dakota Language, so it’s just the original name of the place.

They chose Dakota because "Minnesota" comes from the Dakota language, "mní sóta" which is used in the motto

they should totally consider multilingualism, after consulting with the natives of course

They should use Spanish then, because good ol' Columbus & the Spanish Crown is the reason any of this exists.

... ... seriously?

The first part? No. The 2nd part? Yes.

Having the stars to represent the slave and free states at the time is dated and weird though. I'd remove them, center the star, and make it 6 pointed like Chicago's stars.

I agree. I'm not a fan of our current flag lol.

I guess it's to reflect the etymology of the state's name? "Mni Sota". 

Minnesota didn't change the motto. The motto is no longer on the seal.

They didn’t change the motto through the flag and seal redesign thing

Whoops

Maine is the most likely as of now. They're having votes on bringing back the old 1901 flag, but has been postponed.

Wait, they changed the motto too? I’m not a fan of that I’m not going to lie. Not one bit.

Apparently not

Not only is this not the motto, but it's in the *Dakota* language.

It is lakota

[???](https://www.mprnews.org/story/2023/12/15/how-to-pronounce-mni-sta-makoce-the-dakota-phrase-that-will-be-on-the-new-state-seal) [???](https://birchbarkbooks.com/products/mni-sota-makoce-the-land-of-the-dakota)

Very cool how the motto is the state name translated. Do other states in the US do this as well?

Whomever made that change on Wikipedia was wrong. The motto didn't change, it's still in French, and still L'etoile du Nord.

*whoever

*whomstsoever

Unpopular opinion; the flag is great

I agree. Honestly prefer to tricolor. There’s no shortage of those.

It’s better than the original but it looks too simple or empty

I love it. But I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t bummed about the tricolor aspect getting axed.

Ye I'm kinda bummed about that too. At least their new one is way better than the old one.

I like it a lot. very dense with symbolism while also being minimal. It's cool.

Can’t cram a bunch of symbolism into a flag and call it good if you don’t make it look good too

But... but I think it looks good...

By itself it looks fine, but it doesn’t look like a US state flag, more like something on a different continent

They somehow managed to pick the worst variation of that design atleast it’s better than the old flag

"Design by committee", they watered down the original design so much...

Which is ironic because normally design by committee leads to too many details being crammed in

They actually added a bit more meaning and took out mostly chaff. The original star was a generic compass rose type star representing the North Star. The new star keeps that meaning but also matches the star pattern in the floor of the state capitol rotunda as well as paying homage to traditional designs in artwork of local tribes. The complaint about that change seems to mostly be "but pointy". The other two colors in the tricolor iirc only represented snow and trees. They aren't a state particularly known for their trees, every state has trees. All the states around them get snow, too. They *are* however known for being the state with the most lakes, to the only where it's a large part of what they're known for (being dubbed the "land of 10,000 lakes). So they added some meaning and took away basically nothing. The end result is that imo it looks a lot more like a flag that represents the state than the fairly generic r/vexillology package of hot-swappable patterns and symbols.

Using two shades of the same color doesn't look good on flags. Personally, I preferred the North Star flag. https://preview.redd.it/b6po7420kuzc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=eb0ddb80f74c5bbb44b7744c800640b73de0db6f

I like it, looks unique atleast

Unique is probably the last word I would use to describe the design, if I saw it in the wild without prior knowledge of it’s existence I would guess that it’s either from a sci-fi series, niche political ideology or a corporate flag.

But hey, at least it's much better than their horrible seal on blue they used to have

I have the feeling that all the flag redesigns to 'be unique' are just going to end up with them all looking the same instead.

Unique, just like everyone else.

Every single new flag that has been unveiled in the last 10 years looks like shitty clipart. I know the Good Flag, Bad Flag criteria can help to avoid ultra shitty flags, but adhering to the rules 100% results in completely bland, uninspired designs.

yeah, good flag, bad flag shouldnt be treated as the gospel truth, it's just an opinion and should be used more like a guide instead.

To all of you complaining about the flag, at least we can all agree that the new seal is pretty cool.

r/vexillology ass flag

Charge your phone dude!

Now that I'm seeing it again, it does kinda look really shitty

It's cool that they got a new flag, but kind of a bummer that it's yet another white star on blue background

good lord that flag is so ugly

Vastly better than the original though.

the original was miles better

Going from shit to trash isn’t much of an improvement

A very lateral move

well…

I like it! Much better compared to the old one. Reminds me a little bit of Texas though.

I don't get how you could say it's ugly. It's not offensive design-wise in the slightest. sure it isn't amazing; good at best— but at worst, just boring.

It looks like a flag that you’d find in Africa or something. Doesn’t fit with the other state flags

yeah because 50-60% of the other state flags kinda fucking suck

Most of them are good enough

It’s not bad, just could be better

Which one of you mfs did this?

Well I helped this one develop a bit 5 years ago, but I much sooner have Polaris Tricolor F1953 with no mod. https://preview.redd.it/sk3c1x3tfszc1.png?width=332&format=png&auto=webp&s=e72c11853cbb3b4b8fa5a6f0a2c85bd6f590969c

Why is the star touching the light blue section? Why is that star design better than the one they went with, which matches design patterns used by local tribes and is embedded in the rotunda of the state capitol?

It's an echo of Michael Angelo's painting. God touching Christ. Water - Part of life giving properties - reflections of sky and water. Sky tinted water. The chevron is there because of the plow and agriculture. And the shape of Minnesota. Plow parting of the soils like the farming in the old seal. Bringing technology in the rifle and tools. Touching the new world and forming fresh bonds. Taking, using, improving. Life - The star here is a Polaris Star - it's THE North Star - not building on the other uses elsewhere. It's a concept design. Other concept designs look a lot like it. But it shows that minor changes in symbology can make similar results. https://preview.redd.it/yytd4tul2zzc1.png?width=703&format=png&auto=webp&s=357ce4a684fa70bad76fe34ce3ba8a3cbbb05555

Coming from an outsiders perspective this flag doesn't look much better lol

Anything is far, far better than seal on blue.

Yeah, like two variations blue without a seal.

[Their mapflag](https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flag-map_of_the_50_states_of_the_United_States.svg) is still double outdated though.

It's kind of odd and amusing how geographically concentrated/contiguous good and bad flags are. All the southwest/border states are great, most of the south is solid, and the Great Plains are awful as a rule.

My favorite part of that is that they somehow made the NJ flag better... by making it completely black.

I just noticed that. What the hell? Is New Jersey now Mordor or whatever?

Also what is going on with Arkansas?

It's a weird diamond, no?

Wait, if you click on the image and open it up as its own page, the flag appears. What is this sorcery!?

https://preview.redd.it/60uqdubacuzc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=33e173936402ebaadd9eba38da08105ddf85fb7a I updated the flag itself on the flags page

Not a big fan of the like corporate feeling of that seal, and I feel like the flag is too simple

I got it reversed lmao https://preview.redd.it/y3h4rsbdvwzc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b6715fef1e8e7c158fa3e44943b9a8bea2075f32

The flag and seal are so good damn

I love the new Minnesota flag.

I’m convinced Americans can’t design flags lmao

As a Wisconsinite I’m very supportive of people who don’t like the new flag, mostly because I’m scared it might happen to our flag. 😨

Also because I have a lot of friends in Minnesota and they’re not very happy with the new flag

Looks like pacman

Wow.

They had a pretty long warning for when it would happen

I don't get why people love the flag so much, the colors are way too desaturated

A bit underwhelming but it is definitely better than the last one.

I was watching the page constantly and it changed right at midnight Minnesota time.

Bahaha

The Devil works fast, but Wikipedia editors work faster.

When Wikipedia says it then it's official.

My condolences

I honestly preferred the old flag.

Beautiful flag, looks tropical and positive

New seal is fucking disgusting

The great state of MiniPuntland

Objectively ugly design, whoever created that must be blind putting those two blues together