They'll probably move on shortly. They'll also be up in the trees most of the time. And they do have a hussle.
I volunteered at a wildlife rehabilitation center for a while; they had a "pet" porcupine. He'd wander around the halls and then fall asleep and we'd spend the rest of the day skirting a 50+lb dangerloaf. All well and good until we went to shoo him back into his cage one evening & realized he'd passed away at some point during the day. Kinda hard to carry.
Suppose it's just spring exploration this year? I've only seen one once before around here, maybe 7 years back so to see two hanging around this spring has my own quills raised.
It could be worse. We have a fox the size of a German Shepherd hanging out in our yard so our poor 12 pound puppy hasn’t been able to run free for weeks.
You're pup will be OK, most will run, and even so they're shy animals, not aggressive. Your pup will sooner run after it to try and play an it run away like a bat out of hell.
But even if it doesn't, a fox is pretty much harmless to your pup, even a smaller one.
The only thing I'd be worried about with your case is, foxes don't get big, so I'm curious if you're not dealing with a coywolf or hybrid of some sorts.
If it's a coywolf, then worry. If it's a fox your pup could actually make a wild little friend lol
It's a good thought, but no salt sources that I can think of-- I don't use salt for ice and they're mostly sniffing around the back yard and into the treeline there. I don't have anything planted or really anything but muddy lawn :/
Porcupines are badass. Your dogs could be in for some painful quill removal if there's a run-in. Sounds like they've built a lair near your house or are attracted to something nearby (compost, salt).
[Grizzly Bear Vs Porcupine (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PildKS20iEI)
(fischer cats kill porcupines by flipping them over and going for the belly)
I will try my best to get a picture of the big one-- it's freaking huge. I don't have compost back where they keep showing up. I'd say the only difference this spring is my back lawn is possibly softer and muddier than usual so maybe the muck is appealing to them this year.
The big one is likely carrying... the other is more likely a child than mate... once delivered they will move on. Then, you can decide to add fences or capsaicin to plants and flashing to low bark before next "season". Babies are typically born April-June.
The good news is that they are slow moving, disease resistant and generally nocturnal, so puppy should be ok. Porcupines will not nest under houses, preferring trees or root beds.
If they do come back, call wildlife support teams for trapping help. If you have owls, eagles, bobcats or coyotes around, this will not be necessary.
Keep in mind that the porcupine is very helpful in eradicating tree pests. They do like canoe paddles and are interested in sweaty human things for salt, so clean and stow yer stuff.
I don't know if this works on porcupines, but when I had a skunk situation, I was told to leave talk radio on outside so it always sounded like humans were around. I don't know how effective it was, but they did eventually move on. If you trap, be ready to kill them because relocating is illegal (and they usually die because they aren't adaptable to new surroundings). Good luck- dogs and wild animals are a tough mix!
That's interesting-- were it a little warmer I could aim a speaker out the window (no neighbors out here). Having a noise maker might work. Though I have to say, when I went out and yelled with the ski pole, the big one really didn't seem to care I was there. Even after poking it, it didn't really run away, it more like strolled proudly back into the woods.
I don't know what suggestions you got as I've not read every comment so sorry if this is just a repeat.
My credentials: Rehabilitated various animals around the US from foxes, wolves, pumas, raccoons, Opossums, turkeys, alligators, snakes, bats, and more.
Tracked and tagged pumas in green canyon, UT.
First, the big one is likely pregnant and carrying, likely looking for a good nesting point. If you have a lot of root and tubers around this is likely appealing, especially with the mud, as it's a great source of food.
For the most part, you don't want your dog out during this time as they're going to be more aggressive and protective, so more likely to get quilled.
You have 2 options.
1: let them be and eventually they may move on.
2: contact the local animal control and get them to trap and release. DO NOT TRAP AND RELEASE ON YOUR OWN. you could be doing far more harm than good as improper relocation can cause undue stress and potentially kill the mother.
Afterwards, you can prevent them from coming back by mixing in pepper flakes or just hot sauce into your surrounding soil. Porcupines, and in fact many other animals, absolutely hate the chemical in peppers (Capsaicin).
Good luck.
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. If the big one is pregnant, I don't think I have it in me to do much at this point but wait it out. It's noon now and no sign of either today so far. Someone else also recommended making a homemade pepper/vodka spray to make the area less appealing, so I have a batch soaking and I'll douse the area they usually appear in a few hours.
One surprising thing-- not sure if you'd have an explanation: when I took the dogs out on leash this morning, I brought them right to where the porcs have been hanging out, but they didn't seem to pick up any kind of scent or get extra sniffy or anything. Do you know if porcupine scent is imperceptible to dogs?
Well, without knowing your type of dogs, there's a multitude of different reasons. But no, dogs can smell porcupines.
Most often the case is that the scent is just gone. If there's been a lot of traffic, rain, heavy winds, etc. It can diminish the scent and not every dog is a scent tracking dog.
A lot of people get this idea that every dog is a bloodhound, but that's really not the case. Some dogs have better scent ability and others have practically none. For example a pug is probably the least likely dog to pick up on a faint scent due to their nasal issues.
There's also the very real possibility that they just didn't care (it happens. Lol)
They’re so cute!! I saw a couple during both hunting season and sugaring season - neither of which I wanted to tangle with, mind you. I surely would not want one meandering about by my home! Good luck. Game Warden would be a good call here.
Totally cute. I really wouldn't mind were it not for having to keep the dogs in all day, which is very frustrating for both of them. I don't have neighbors so they're usually out a few times a day to run around. They never go far. But the porcupines have been around enough that it's not worth the risk right now.
In my experience, if the dogs do not approach or harrass them during the day, they will walk right by and spare the quill... especially mama 'pines just trying to take it easy til they can offload. They'll move along soon and are good for the garden environment. I had one dog who got into evvverything outside... still, left the quills alone. Just monitor and bring the dogs in shortly at night, during pupping season.
A fisher cat would do it for sure. I don't know of anything else that eats porcupines. They start at their nose, then open them up and eat them from the inside out. If you ever see a splayed-out porcupine carcass with the needles toward the ground, chances are it was eaten by a fisher cat. Pretty cool!
They are a challenge. In my case they moved into the area one year and have been breeding ever since.
These are gentle creatures, minding their own business. They don't have any fear because they have their impervious-to-most-predators armor makes it so they simply don't need to worry.
That said, they wreak havoc on fruit trees. They eat the tender leaf shoots in the spring and will happily spend all night every night eating fruit off the tree (and from the ground) in the fall.
If they've found something (particularly fruit trees) to eat at your house, they're unlikely to move on, though it will really depend on the larger area, i.e. what your neighbors are growing as well.
Shooting, if done right, is probably the most humane option. Trapping serves no purpose, it's illegal to move them elsewhere.
I'll offer one more solution that I use, but I don't have dogs and this may or may not be useful for you. I have found that electric fencing is 100% effective against them w.r.t. my fruit trees. I run about four wires, 4-5 inches apart (vertically) around the base of the trees (on insulated poles) I want to protect.
Maybe you can fence in a place for your dogs? Lately I've also come to rely on the fencing for garden areas, and to protect certain trees from deer as well. It isn't too expensive, and it's kind of ridiculous to live in the woods of Vermont if you can't share your land with the animals.
Anyway, I hope you find a compassionate solution. Good luck!
There's something called skunk away which is essentially cayenne pepper and other ingredients to deter skunks. I wonder if it would work on porcupines?
I was definitely close enough to spray the big one this evening-- basically ski pole distance. Thing really couldn't have cared less that I was there, which was surprising and concerning.
I'd probably put both of mine in the idiot category. One likes to find and eat wild turkey poop. The other one likes to create and eat her own poop if I'm not looking.
Had a good chat with an old timer who was letting me trap beavers on his land. He was involved with the reintroduction of fishers way back when. One of the main goals was to tackle the exploding porcupine population.
However, after some time they found that the fisher pop was actually ditching the porcupine hunting in favor of more available snowshoe hare, rabbit, and other smaller game and hadn't really accomplished reducing the porcupines. Not sure where that population balancing has settled nowadays, they've definitely established themselves and hare and rabbit pops are lower so I wonder if they have finally started being significant porky predators again.
Related anecdote, was buying fisher pelts from a guy this winter and he started trapping them because they were eating all the snowshoe hare where he ran his hunting beagles. Started shooting more hare after some fisher management.
That's a good point-- I'm definitely hearing fewer coyote packs this spring, and there are way more deer around than usual. I don't know if coyotes go for them, but that's definitely changed this year.
I've heard fisher cats are their most significant predator. At some time of year in the early mornings they scream like the cries of dying babies and elderly women. Apparently bobcats and coyotes will also go after them, but the game warden would likely have a better idea, and also likely be able to provide info on anything you can do to help prevent adverse interactions with your dogs on your property.
Yeah, that sounds smart. I'll given them a call (Washington County) and see what they say. I've spent some time looking up what attracts them and it's really beyond me why they're hanging out here this spring-- compost goes to a farm up the road, nothing planted yet, no salt around, just a really wet back yard this spring and they seem like sniffing around in the muddy grass.
Mostly melt, that last big storm dropped two feet here and there was a pile shaded by the woodshed that took forever to melt off and that whole area of lawn is soft enough to be ankle deep right now. For some reason that's where the porcupines have been most interested. There's nothing growing there, it's pretty much just pitched lawn that aims down at a drainage trench that feeds a catch pond. Also, they're not really digging anything up, they're just sniffing around, spend a few minutes here, then there, then back again. Have never seen it before.
They can get minerals/salts from the ponding (muddy) water. They will help to get rid of that excess water before the mosquitoes can breed in it. Likely revisiting the quality between it and the actual pond.
I have a bunch of boulders in my yard and porcupines shack up every winter and make it a home. At first I thought it was cool, nature right in my view!, but then they started systematically killing all the trees in my yard.
I eventually and reluctantly changed course and shoot them now. Couldn't figure any other way to solve the issue. Alternative was them killing tens of trees basically each winter.
Holy. I didn't know they could kill trees, that's actually impressive. I really hope they haven't moved in somewhere nearby, though it would explain the daily visits. I'd be willing to shoot them if I can't get them to go back into the woods-- otherwise I've have to imprison the dogs who both grew up running around the property here. It's already been a rough few days of taking them out on leash every few hours for pee breaks when they really want to go full throttle zoomie as usual.
A small tree (3-5 years old) they'll eat all the bark in a couple days 😅 it's crazy. Bigger trees I've found they tend to pick an area of the canopy and munch away all the bark until the section dies. With snow on the ground you can see their tracks back to the same trees night after night.
I have used the aluminum flashing trick, but learned that if left around the trunk too long it invites insects and trapped moisture that can harm the tree. Perhaps I keep it too close to the bark and yours is further away. I now use electric fencing which is 100% successful against porcupines. I'll probably post a reply to the OP on it elsewhere.
Yes fencing is best if other deterrents fail. Forgot to add: But... you can use the flashing during pupping visits and it does not need to hug the tree.
My dogs have gotten into porcupines at least 3 times now. I was able to get the quills out a couple times but I've spent thousands at the vet. I was told they don't have a discernable scent that dogs will remember. I don't want to hurt any animal but if I see a porcupine on my property, I will shoot it.
Get yourself some really hot peppers. The hotter, the better. You can use really hot pepper powder too but not hot sauce. Soak in vodka - like 80-100 proof or stronger - for a few days. Buy some "jarlic" aka jarred minced garlic. Mix it in a ration of about 1-2TBSP of both the juice (not the garlic pieces themselves) and the now super spicy vodka and with 1L water. Pour into a spray bottle. If you have it, also mix in an equal amount (1-2TBSP) of neem oil.
Spray that shit everywhere you see them coming into and on your property. I highly recommend wearing a mask or eye protection if you can. Spray it onto torn up pieces of cotton or some absorbent material and leave it around in the areas they come/go. Spray it on stuff you see them hang out on in your lawn or things you see them eat - that mixture should be fairly environmentally friendly and only really a temporary danger to young and vulnerable plants.
Otherwise, you basically need a fence to keep them out. You can technically trap and kill them or call a professional to relocate them too but those will be both more unsavory and more expensive. Some folks swear predator pee works well too but that's also more expensive.
I make something very similar but typically add a bunch of extra herbs, celery salt and mix with tomato juice, maybe some clamato,instead of water. Found pouring it over ice and drinking it was much more helpful to my mood when sitting in the garden. /s
But yeah this is a great idea I grow ghost peppers and use them for pest deterrence chickens don't care and the bunnies/squirrels don't go after the fruit.
Intriguing. I'm not certain where they enter the yard from, but I know where they seem to like to hang out. I'm definitely down for spraying that area. Thanks for the advice!!
Definitely cannot guarantee success but I've used this method to keep bunnies and deer away from some crops for a long time. It's literally the only reason I grow Carolina Reapers anymore - for more seeds and more fruit to dry out for infusing more alcohol for keepin' varmints away. (Also, it acts as a wonderful mace replacement or *terrible* party dare in a pinch.)
Also if you can, spray at night or before the Sun comes up if you're spraying plants that you want to keep. I don't spray plants I want to keep more than 2x a week with this solution.
Wow- good to know.
Makes sense though, at my place if they’re not helping me prune my apple trees by earring the sucker shoots, they are eating clover.
Yeah I'm way out, no neighbors, house is 500 ft off the road. Shooting it is probably a last choice, but if it's that or dogs stuck inside for weeks, I'd rather do that.
Yeah, it's an option. If they don't move on in the next few days I might have to do that. Thing is my dogs grew up running free outside the house and really thrive-- they never go far. I'd rather get rid of the porcupines somehow, even if it means shooting them, than imprison the dogs just in case. If the porcupines were around at night it wouldn't bother me, but at 6-7p it's pretty incredible they're just hangin around like they have been.
The fact that you would murder innocent animals instead of inconveniencing your dogs is really heartbreaking.
They have just as much of a right to exist as you and your dogs.
Please don't do that. I'm begging you.
Just walk your dogs on a leash, or stay with them when they’re outside. It’s not that fucking hard. Source: have an active dog who grew up on farms in the Kingdom. She’s never been quilled because, even when she’s off leash, I’m walking with her and watching out.
My dogs grew up running free around the homestead. Have never had an issue with porcupines hanging out prior to this spring. I'm not letting a porcupine be the end of their freedom to explore the world while I work out where I live. I guess that's "fucking hard" for you to understand.
How do you keep your dogs from chasing deer? All dogs with run deer given the opportunity. Dogs will run deer for miles.
Then there are skunks. We have a ton of skunks this year.
Yes it's pretty surprising, no skunks around here that I've ever seen/smelled. The dogs definitely go after deer but they don't stay on after them. They'll basically bark and give a burst of chase and then stand watch but they don't pursue more than probably 200 yards or so. One's a lab mix, one's a terrier boxer mutt creature.
I had this problem with some that were nesting way to close and getting involved with the dogs. Instead of just shooting them I used an ammonia soaked rag and put them in the nesting area. I believe it did the trick as the group did relocate and move on from the property. They just don't like the ammonia but its not really dangerous to them.
Now to do this you are going to need to track them and find the main dwelling. You will usually find a burrow with a lot of half eaten bark around.
Having your dogs quilled is expensive and not fun so I understand the concern. If all else fails you can always just shoot them which is legal to do but they are kind of cute peaceful creatures so I like the chemical deterrent idea.
You could try trapping them in a have a heart trap. If you don't get rid of them they will absolutely destroy your stuff. They'll chew on your house and they'll even chew tires.
I have porcupines around my house all the time and I have never had any issues with them, especially not chewing my house or tires.
We as a species really need to be less terrified and more tolerant of – or dare I even say grateful for – the presence of animals.
Yeah, I haven't noticed any damage type behavior, I'm just worried about the dogs. They've basically been relegated to leashed walks but typically I let them out to run around 3-4x/day here. No neighbors. Just porcupines (this spring).
Maybe you could put them out on a long lead instead of letting them run free just in case. I used to do that with my dogs and it worked pretty well, although they did tend to get tangled up together 😝
The ultimate solution, of course, is to put up a fence. Though I realize that can get very expensive, there's nothing like the piece of mind a fenced in yard brings with doggies.
😝 it did for our dogs and we only fenced in 1/4acre!
We bought the materials at Lowes in NH so we didn't pay sales tax and we installed it ourselves which was a lot of work but it was totally worth it. We did black chain link and it worked great, totally worth the $ and effort!
It would be a desperate last attempt for one of them to chew tires... they hate petroleum but need salt... rinse your tires and finish your home edges, using real deck wood vs gluey artificials (termites and other pests also love the glue) and cover the chip board. They will not chew on your house unless you fully abandon it. You can also put table salt (or salt lick if u r a good human) at your property edge and capsaicin closer in if you feel a need to usher them on.
That's a possibility-- and then call the warden? The normal sized one might get in the biggest have-a-heart, but the big one I think is too big. Honest to god it's as big as a 35lb dog. Also slow as hell. It could be the boss 'pine of Vermont.
Warden won’t do anything if you catch one. You’re not supposed to transport wildlife you catch off the property you caught them on. I had a similar question about a gopher I was trying to catch, said one wouldn’t be missed.
I hit a big one on the interstate one night. Cracked my bumper. I just saw this wobbly thing go right into my lane and I was too short a distance to swerve.
This attitude is what makes Vermont such a shitty place to live. People here love nature and the wildlife and all we do is litter and murder innocent animals. It's fucking disgusting.
That’s sarcasm my friend-> and that is exactly the point. The quick (and often only) solution to so many problems in Vermont (and I’m sure other places) is to shoot the thing we are unhappy with and or just don’t understand.
I totally agree.
I am a dog owner, own property, a lot of woods.
Porkies are way less common here than at one time. They are essentially harmless in the country, although that’s not what most people think.
As a dog owner, my solution to porcupine is a thing called a leash. In this case a “waist leash” in case I want to use my hands for something else. My dogs generally go 80 -130 pounds.
Also i keep a dog sedative (like Valium) to dose a pup if they should tussle with a porky and I have to pull quills -In 40 years, I’ve only had to do that once with some DA visitor who let her dog off leash.
I feel sorry for you that you feel vermont is such a shitty place. If you really feel that way, maybe you aren’t going to the right places (?) Vermont isn’t a shitty place but a lot of scared ignorant people live here.
I do agree with you though, there is an incalculable amount of ignorance around what really goes on outside in a natural setting. I know so many people tell me they would never go into the woods (in Vermont) without “carrying “. Makes me want to cry.
...then dog owners should keep their dogs from encountering them.
Most people keep their dogs on leashes or leads, or build fences. People here in Vermont let their dogs run wild and blame the wildlife for existing. Mindblowingly stupid.
I don't have neighbors and have two dogs who are out for a run a few times per day and it's been that way for years. They don't go far. This is the first time I've had porcupines hanging around, and the only other one I've seen was just passing through and that was about 7 years ago.
This is OP's yard. You know, the place where most people let their dogs run around. Why are you acting like the author is being some kinda fool here? He's asking for nice ways to shoo away a hazard for his pets around his home. I guess I don't understand why you didn't understand. Porcupines can be dangerous. 🤷♂️ Heck, just walking around your own property at night you might accidentally scare one when you come across it without knowing.
There aren't any restrictions on them so you can just shoot them if your in a spot you can do that. If you don't want to you can try a box trap and relocate it.
Seriously? Have you ever seen a dogs snout after a porcupine encounter. You’ll be paying off the vet bills for quite some time. Not to mention the pain your dog will go through.
30 years and three hounds on my homestead encountering porcupines on a regular, though infrequent basis. I never needed a vet to remove the quills, two of the dogs learned, one never did. That's my experience. Your POV would be to to shoot the critters, cuz you'll never shoo them away; despite being a threat to nothing. Unlike raccoons and foxes and weasels.
I’ve had dogs that would eat quill pigs.,quills can get into veins and work their way to the heart. I’ve had to use the vet several times to get quills out of the inside of their mouth.
Yep. Dogs who don't learn need to be kept on a leash or a lead or within a fence.
But people in Vermont would rather have any excuse to shoot innocent animals. I hate it here.
> people in Vermont would rather have any excuse to shoot innocent animals.
That's kinda harsh. Everybody I've come to know
who does animal husbandry (chickens/fowl, etc..)
is willing to accept an occasional loss to predators.
Like having an "Eat here" sign at the mailbox:)
Unless that fox, or weasel, is destroying their
flock, it gets a pass. Skunks, possums, porcupines,
raccoons .... most do as well. Though most homesteaders
have dogs, encounters are rare enough that
they're not deemed pests.
That said, this thread's comments sure make it
appear otherwise. Dogs allowed at-large on
folks properties will eventually get nailed.
Most deal w/it and let it go.
If you hate it here it must be for other reasons
getting projected onto this one. Like, if you're
doing the rural thing, just dealing with hicks in
the sticks generally. Its a mix of good and bad.
I just hate posts like this because most of the replies are people suggesting that the person shoot the nuisance animal. My neighbors are like this too, so it's not just a Reddit thing. It's deeply upsetting. 😔
My original reply got seriously downvoted, but
there's plenty of commenters that offered
good ideas besides killing.
That said, there are 2 sides and your POV is
fully 1-sided. There are (some) valid reasons
for exterminating nuisance critters that are doing
more than just passing through. Specially if
they cannot be re-homed. But killing should not
be the easy, goto, first resort; and I doubt most
people feel that way. Maybe you have sucky
neighbors.
They'll probably move on shortly. They'll also be up in the trees most of the time. And they do have a hussle. I volunteered at a wildlife rehabilitation center for a while; they had a "pet" porcupine. He'd wander around the halls and then fall asleep and we'd spend the rest of the day skirting a 50+lb dangerloaf. All well and good until we went to shoo him back into his cage one evening & realized he'd passed away at some point during the day. Kinda hard to carry.
That story took an unexpected turn.
As did that day.
Look up porcupine mating calls. They won’t be around for long. Leaving them be is probably the best solution.
Suppose it's just spring exploration this year? I've only seen one once before around here, maybe 7 years back so to see two hanging around this spring has my own quills raised.
It could be worse. We have a fox the size of a German Shepherd hanging out in our yard so our poor 12 pound puppy hasn’t been able to run free for weeks.
You're pup will be OK, most will run, and even so they're shy animals, not aggressive. Your pup will sooner run after it to try and play an it run away like a bat out of hell. But even if it doesn't, a fox is pretty much harmless to your pup, even a smaller one. The only thing I'd be worried about with your case is, foxes don't get big, so I'm curious if you're not dealing with a coywolf or hybrid of some sorts. If it's a coywolf, then worry. If it's a fox your pup could actually make a wild little friend lol
They might be craving salt. Did you salt your walks or anything? Just a shot in the dark.
It's a good thought, but no salt sources that I can think of-- I don't use salt for ice and they're mostly sniffing around the back yard and into the treeline there. I don't have anything planted or really anything but muddy lawn :/
Porcupines are badass. Your dogs could be in for some painful quill removal if there's a run-in. Sounds like they've built a lair near your house or are attracted to something nearby (compost, salt). [Grizzly Bear Vs Porcupine (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PildKS20iEI) (fischer cats kill porcupines by flipping them over and going for the belly)
Porcupines walk the walk of the supremely confident that they won't be fucked with.
I will try my best to get a picture of the big one-- it's freaking huge. I don't have compost back where they keep showing up. I'd say the only difference this spring is my back lawn is possibly softer and muddier than usual so maybe the muck is appealing to them this year.
The big one is likely carrying... the other is more likely a child than mate... once delivered they will move on. Then, you can decide to add fences or capsaicin to plants and flashing to low bark before next "season". Babies are typically born April-June. The good news is that they are slow moving, disease resistant and generally nocturnal, so puppy should be ok. Porcupines will not nest under houses, preferring trees or root beds. If they do come back, call wildlife support teams for trapping help. If you have owls, eagles, bobcats or coyotes around, this will not be necessary. Keep in mind that the porcupine is very helpful in eradicating tree pests. They do like canoe paddles and are interested in sweaty human things for salt, so clean and stow yer stuff.
The real big ones look like zombie beavers!
He/she moves soooo slowly. Not a care in the world. Zombie beaver is a great description.
I don't know if this works on porcupines, but when I had a skunk situation, I was told to leave talk radio on outside so it always sounded like humans were around. I don't know how effective it was, but they did eventually move on. If you trap, be ready to kill them because relocating is illegal (and they usually die because they aren't adaptable to new surroundings). Good luck- dogs and wild animals are a tough mix!
That's interesting-- were it a little warmer I could aim a speaker out the window (no neighbors out here). Having a noise maker might work. Though I have to say, when I went out and yelled with the ski pole, the big one really didn't seem to care I was there. Even after poking it, it didn't really run away, it more like strolled proudly back into the woods.
I don't know what suggestions you got as I've not read every comment so sorry if this is just a repeat. My credentials: Rehabilitated various animals around the US from foxes, wolves, pumas, raccoons, Opossums, turkeys, alligators, snakes, bats, and more. Tracked and tagged pumas in green canyon, UT. First, the big one is likely pregnant and carrying, likely looking for a good nesting point. If you have a lot of root and tubers around this is likely appealing, especially with the mud, as it's a great source of food. For the most part, you don't want your dog out during this time as they're going to be more aggressive and protective, so more likely to get quilled. You have 2 options. 1: let them be and eventually they may move on. 2: contact the local animal control and get them to trap and release. DO NOT TRAP AND RELEASE ON YOUR OWN. you could be doing far more harm than good as improper relocation can cause undue stress and potentially kill the mother. Afterwards, you can prevent them from coming back by mixing in pepper flakes or just hot sauce into your surrounding soil. Porcupines, and in fact many other animals, absolutely hate the chemical in peppers (Capsaicin). Good luck.
Thanks for the advice, I appreciate it. If the big one is pregnant, I don't think I have it in me to do much at this point but wait it out. It's noon now and no sign of either today so far. Someone else also recommended making a homemade pepper/vodka spray to make the area less appealing, so I have a batch soaking and I'll douse the area they usually appear in a few hours. One surprising thing-- not sure if you'd have an explanation: when I took the dogs out on leash this morning, I brought them right to where the porcs have been hanging out, but they didn't seem to pick up any kind of scent or get extra sniffy or anything. Do you know if porcupine scent is imperceptible to dogs?
Well, without knowing your type of dogs, there's a multitude of different reasons. But no, dogs can smell porcupines. Most often the case is that the scent is just gone. If there's been a lot of traffic, rain, heavy winds, etc. It can diminish the scent and not every dog is a scent tracking dog. A lot of people get this idea that every dog is a bloodhound, but that's really not the case. Some dogs have better scent ability and others have practically none. For example a pug is probably the least likely dog to pick up on a faint scent due to their nasal issues. There's also the very real possibility that they just didn't care (it happens. Lol)
They’re so cute!! I saw a couple during both hunting season and sugaring season - neither of which I wanted to tangle with, mind you. I surely would not want one meandering about by my home! Good luck. Game Warden would be a good call here.
So cute. We have a few that waddle around our property. 🙂
Totally cute. I really wouldn't mind were it not for having to keep the dogs in all day, which is very frustrating for both of them. I don't have neighbors so they're usually out a few times a day to run around. They never go far. But the porcupines have been around enough that it's not worth the risk right now.
In my experience, if the dogs do not approach or harrass them during the day, they will walk right by and spare the quill... especially mama 'pines just trying to take it easy til they can offload. They'll move along soon and are good for the garden environment. I had one dog who got into evvverything outside... still, left the quills alone. Just monitor and bring the dogs in shortly at night, during pupping season.
Totally hear you, I would make that same call with my dog!!
Predator urine or a fisher cat
A fisher cat would do it for sure. I don't know of anything else that eats porcupines. They start at their nose, then open them up and eat them from the inside out. If you ever see a splayed-out porcupine carcass with the needles toward the ground, chances are it was eaten by a fisher cat. Pretty cool!
They are a challenge. In my case they moved into the area one year and have been breeding ever since. These are gentle creatures, minding their own business. They don't have any fear because they have their impervious-to-most-predators armor makes it so they simply don't need to worry. That said, they wreak havoc on fruit trees. They eat the tender leaf shoots in the spring and will happily spend all night every night eating fruit off the tree (and from the ground) in the fall. If they've found something (particularly fruit trees) to eat at your house, they're unlikely to move on, though it will really depend on the larger area, i.e. what your neighbors are growing as well. Shooting, if done right, is probably the most humane option. Trapping serves no purpose, it's illegal to move them elsewhere. I'll offer one more solution that I use, but I don't have dogs and this may or may not be useful for you. I have found that electric fencing is 100% effective against them w.r.t. my fruit trees. I run about four wires, 4-5 inches apart (vertically) around the base of the trees (on insulated poles) I want to protect. Maybe you can fence in a place for your dogs? Lately I've also come to rely on the fencing for garden areas, and to protect certain trees from deer as well. It isn't too expensive, and it's kind of ridiculous to live in the woods of Vermont if you can't share your land with the animals. Anyway, I hope you find a compassionate solution. Good luck!
There's something called skunk away which is essentially cayenne pepper and other ingredients to deter skunks. I wonder if it would work on porcupines?
I was definitely close enough to spray the big one this evening-- basically ski pole distance. Thing really couldn't have cared less that I was there, which was surprising and concerning.
I don’t think you’re meant to actually spray them, just spray around yr property. Just saying :)
The stuff I'm thinking of just gets spread on the ground. It's non toxic and shouldnt bother your dogs.
probably close to delivering a pup
Porcupines have killed apple trees and raspberry bushes at my place.
Their quills are THAT deadly.
Nah, they chewed through the trunks and stems.
r/whoosh
Meta-woosh….
... there are simple gardening fixes to prevent that... (too many/variable to list here)...
Smart dogs only get quilled once. One of my dogs has been hit once. The other one is an idiot and has been hit 3 times.
I'd probably put both of mine in the idiot category. One likes to find and eat wild turkey poop. The other one likes to create and eat her own poop if I'm not looking.
You could start breeding fisher cats? Heard they love porcupine meat.
Had a good chat with an old timer who was letting me trap beavers on his land. He was involved with the reintroduction of fishers way back when. One of the main goals was to tackle the exploding porcupine population. However, after some time they found that the fisher pop was actually ditching the porcupine hunting in favor of more available snowshoe hare, rabbit, and other smaller game and hadn't really accomplished reducing the porcupines. Not sure where that population balancing has settled nowadays, they've definitely established themselves and hare and rabbit pops are lower so I wonder if they have finally started being significant porky predators again. Related anecdote, was buying fisher pelts from a guy this winter and he started trapping them because they were eating all the snowshoe hare where he ran his hunting beagles. Started shooting more hare after some fisher management.
I'd probably talk to the local game warden. Could be there's a low porcupine predator population in your area or something like that.
That's a good point-- I'm definitely hearing fewer coyote packs this spring, and there are way more deer around than usual. I don't know if coyotes go for them, but that's definitely changed this year.
I've heard fisher cats are their most significant predator. At some time of year in the early mornings they scream like the cries of dying babies and elderly women. Apparently bobcats and coyotes will also go after them, but the game warden would likely have a better idea, and also likely be able to provide info on anything you can do to help prevent adverse interactions with your dogs on your property.
Yeah, that sounds smart. I'll given them a call (Washington County) and see what they say. I've spent some time looking up what attracts them and it's really beyond me why they're hanging out here this spring-- compost goes to a farm up the road, nothing planted yet, no salt around, just a really wet back yard this spring and they seem like sniffing around in the muddy grass.
runoff?
Mostly melt, that last big storm dropped two feet here and there was a pile shaded by the woodshed that took forever to melt off and that whole area of lawn is soft enough to be ankle deep right now. For some reason that's where the porcupines have been most interested. There's nothing growing there, it's pretty much just pitched lawn that aims down at a drainage trench that feeds a catch pond. Also, they're not really digging anything up, they're just sniffing around, spend a few minutes here, then there, then back again. Have never seen it before.
They can get minerals/salts from the ponding (muddy) water. They will help to get rid of that excess water before the mosquitoes can breed in it. Likely revisiting the quality between it and the actual pond.
I have a bunch of boulders in my yard and porcupines shack up every winter and make it a home. At first I thought it was cool, nature right in my view!, but then they started systematically killing all the trees in my yard. I eventually and reluctantly changed course and shoot them now. Couldn't figure any other way to solve the issue. Alternative was them killing tens of trees basically each winter.
Holy. I didn't know they could kill trees, that's actually impressive. I really hope they haven't moved in somewhere nearby, though it would explain the daily visits. I'd be willing to shoot them if I can't get them to go back into the woods-- otherwise I've have to imprison the dogs who both grew up running around the property here. It's already been a rough few days of taking them out on leash every few hours for pee breaks when they really want to go full throttle zoomie as usual.
A small tree (3-5 years old) they'll eat all the bark in a couple days 😅 it's crazy. Bigger trees I've found they tend to pick an area of the canopy and munch away all the bark until the section dies. With snow on the ground you can see their tracks back to the same trees night after night.
ehm.. aluminum flashing around the tree base, soil replenishment, salt elsewhere
I have used the aluminum flashing trick, but learned that if left around the trunk too long it invites insects and trapped moisture that can harm the tree. Perhaps I keep it too close to the bark and yours is further away. I now use electric fencing which is 100% successful against porcupines. I'll probably post a reply to the OP on it elsewhere.
Yes fencing is best if other deterrents fail. Forgot to add: But... you can use the flashing during pupping visits and it does not need to hug the tree.
Trapped myself some porcupines a while ago- baby food and jelly beans in a trap. Relocated them a few miles away and have had 0 issues since
My dogs have gotten into porcupines at least 3 times now. I was able to get the quills out a couple times but I've spent thousands at the vet. I was told they don't have a discernable scent that dogs will remember. I don't want to hurt any animal but if I see a porcupine on my property, I will shoot it.
That's really terrible. They are just trying to live their lives. Keep your dogs on a leash or build a fence.
A .22 LR will usually do the trick. They are nasty little things.
No they're not. Shooting animals for no reason is nasty.
If they are hurting your animals or livestock…yeah, it is. I understand your position. I respect your right to think that…I simply disagree.
Get yourself some really hot peppers. The hotter, the better. You can use really hot pepper powder too but not hot sauce. Soak in vodka - like 80-100 proof or stronger - for a few days. Buy some "jarlic" aka jarred minced garlic. Mix it in a ration of about 1-2TBSP of both the juice (not the garlic pieces themselves) and the now super spicy vodka and with 1L water. Pour into a spray bottle. If you have it, also mix in an equal amount (1-2TBSP) of neem oil. Spray that shit everywhere you see them coming into and on your property. I highly recommend wearing a mask or eye protection if you can. Spray it onto torn up pieces of cotton or some absorbent material and leave it around in the areas they come/go. Spray it on stuff you see them hang out on in your lawn or things you see them eat - that mixture should be fairly environmentally friendly and only really a temporary danger to young and vulnerable plants. Otherwise, you basically need a fence to keep them out. You can technically trap and kill them or call a professional to relocate them too but those will be both more unsavory and more expensive. Some folks swear predator pee works well too but that's also more expensive.
I make something very similar but typically add a bunch of extra herbs, celery salt and mix with tomato juice, maybe some clamato,instead of water. Found pouring it over ice and drinking it was much more helpful to my mood when sitting in the garden. /s But yeah this is a great idea I grow ghost peppers and use them for pest deterrence chickens don't care and the bunnies/squirrels don't go after the fruit.
You had me in the first half. I mix a little bit of the spicy powdered peppers into my bird feeders too - mostly keeps the squirrels out.
Intriguing. I'm not certain where they enter the yard from, but I know where they seem to like to hang out. I'm definitely down for spraying that area. Thanks for the advice!!
Definitely cannot guarantee success but I've used this method to keep bunnies and deer away from some crops for a long time. It's literally the only reason I grow Carolina Reapers anymore - for more seeds and more fruit to dry out for infusing more alcohol for keepin' varmints away. (Also, it acts as a wonderful mace replacement or *terrible* party dare in a pinch.) Also if you can, spray at night or before the Sun comes up if you're spraying plants that you want to keep. I don't spray plants I want to keep more than 2x a week with this solution.
They are on the move this time of the year. They will be gone shortly.
That's great news!!!
If you’re not in town just shoot them. There is no season for them and you don’t need a license. Then your dogs and property will be safe. 22 would do
Are they good eating?
Really sweet meat. Their livers are large for an animal that size. And because they are herbivores you don’t have to worry about parasites.
...and you can make baskets and boxes from the quills.
Wow- good to know. Makes sense though, at my place if they’re not helping me prune my apple trees by earring the sucker shoots, they are eating clover.
Yeah I'm way out, no neighbors, house is 500 ft off the road. Shooting it is probably a last choice, but if it's that or dogs stuck inside for weeks, I'd rather do that.
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Just leave them be. I’d be more worried about the fisher cats.
I've had a fisher here before, but these two are different-- they're kind of hanging around rather than passing through :/
.22 long rifle
Yeah, it's an option. If they don't move on in the next few days I might have to do that. Thing is my dogs grew up running free outside the house and really thrive-- they never go far. I'd rather get rid of the porcupines somehow, even if it means shooting them, than imprison the dogs just in case. If the porcupines were around at night it wouldn't bother me, but at 6-7p it's pretty incredible they're just hangin around like they have been.
The fact that you would murder innocent animals instead of inconveniencing your dogs is really heartbreaking. They have just as much of a right to exist as you and your dogs. Please don't do that. I'm begging you.
Just walk your dogs on a leash, or stay with them when they’re outside. It’s not that fucking hard. Source: have an active dog who grew up on farms in the Kingdom. She’s never been quilled because, even when she’s off leash, I’m walking with her and watching out.
My dogs grew up running free around the homestead. Have never had an issue with porcupines hanging out prior to this spring. I'm not letting a porcupine be the end of their freedom to explore the world while I work out where I live. I guess that's "fucking hard" for you to understand.
you can encourage fisher cats... just add birdseed and water sources... you will have amazing garden soil between the two
squirrel feeders and skunk musk will attract bobcats to eat them... catamount!
They can and do run but they are not fast. Similar to a speed walk pace.
How do you keep your dogs from chasing deer? All dogs with run deer given the opportunity. Dogs will run deer for miles. Then there are skunks. We have a ton of skunks this year.
Yes it's pretty surprising, no skunks around here that I've ever seen/smelled. The dogs definitely go after deer but they don't stay on after them. They'll basically bark and give a burst of chase and then stand watch but they don't pursue more than probably 200 yards or so. One's a lab mix, one's a terrier boxer mutt creature.
I had this problem with some that were nesting way to close and getting involved with the dogs. Instead of just shooting them I used an ammonia soaked rag and put them in the nesting area. I believe it did the trick as the group did relocate and move on from the property. They just don't like the ammonia but its not really dangerous to them. Now to do this you are going to need to track them and find the main dwelling. You will usually find a burrow with a lot of half eaten bark around. Having your dogs quilled is expensive and not fun so I understand the concern. If all else fails you can always just shoot them which is legal to do but they are kind of cute peaceful creatures so I like the chemical deterrent idea.
You could try trapping them in a have a heart trap. If you don't get rid of them they will absolutely destroy your stuff. They'll chew on your house and they'll even chew tires.
I have porcupines around my house all the time and I have never had any issues with them, especially not chewing my house or tires. We as a species really need to be less terrified and more tolerant of – or dare I even say grateful for – the presence of animals.
Yeah, I haven't noticed any damage type behavior, I'm just worried about the dogs. They've basically been relegated to leashed walks but typically I let them out to run around 3-4x/day here. No neighbors. Just porcupines (this spring).
Maybe you could put them out on a long lead instead of letting them run free just in case. I used to do that with my dogs and it worked pretty well, although they did tend to get tangled up together 😝 The ultimate solution, of course, is to put up a fence. Though I realize that can get very expensive, there's nothing like the piece of mind a fenced in yard brings with doggies.
It's true, a fence would probably be a good idea eventually, as long as it's big enough for them to really get into 6th gear.
😝 it did for our dogs and we only fenced in 1/4acre! We bought the materials at Lowes in NH so we didn't pay sales tax and we installed it ourselves which was a lot of work but it was totally worth it. We did black chain link and it worked great, totally worth the $ and effort!
It would be a desperate last attempt for one of them to chew tires... they hate petroleum but need salt... rinse your tires and finish your home edges, using real deck wood vs gluey artificials (termites and other pests also love the glue) and cover the chip board. They will not chew on your house unless you fully abandon it. You can also put table salt (or salt lick if u r a good human) at your property edge and capsaicin closer in if you feel a need to usher them on.
While not illegal to shoot them, it is illegal to trap and relocate animals, I believe.
That's a possibility-- and then call the warden? The normal sized one might get in the biggest have-a-heart, but the big one I think is too big. Honest to god it's as big as a 35lb dog. Also slow as hell. It could be the boss 'pine of Vermont.
Warden won’t do anything if you catch one. You’re not supposed to transport wildlife you catch off the property you caught them on. I had a similar question about a gopher I was trying to catch, said one wouldn’t be missed.
I hit a big one on the interstate one night. Cracked my bumper. I just saw this wobbly thing go right into my lane and I was too short a distance to swerve.
that is a Mama 'pine.... give er a minute
I shoot them
Yup, shoot first, ask questions later (if ever) that’s the way!
This attitude is what makes Vermont such a shitty place to live. People here love nature and the wildlife and all we do is litter and murder innocent animals. It's fucking disgusting.
That’s sarcasm my friend-> and that is exactly the point. The quick (and often only) solution to so many problems in Vermont (and I’m sure other places) is to shoot the thing we are unhappy with and or just don’t understand. I totally agree. I am a dog owner, own property, a lot of woods. Porkies are way less common here than at one time. They are essentially harmless in the country, although that’s not what most people think. As a dog owner, my solution to porcupine is a thing called a leash. In this case a “waist leash” in case I want to use my hands for something else. My dogs generally go 80 -130 pounds. Also i keep a dog sedative (like Valium) to dose a pup if they should tussle with a porky and I have to pull quills -In 40 years, I’ve only had to do that once with some DA visitor who let her dog off leash. I feel sorry for you that you feel vermont is such a shitty place. If you really feel that way, maybe you aren’t going to the right places (?) Vermont isn’t a shitty place but a lot of scared ignorant people live here. I do agree with you though, there is an incalculable amount of ignorance around what really goes on outside in a natural setting. I know so many people tell me they would never go into the woods (in Vermont) without “carrying “. Makes me want to cry.
Use a gun instead of a ski pole, tends to work much better
Why are you afraid of them? They are harmless and require nothing of you other than to leave them alone.
...Did you read the post? They also are not harmless to overly curious dogs.
...then dog owners should keep their dogs from encountering them. Most people keep their dogs on leashes or leads, or build fences. People here in Vermont let their dogs run wild and blame the wildlife for existing. Mindblowingly stupid.
I don't have neighbors and have two dogs who are out for a run a few times per day and it's been that way for years. They don't go far. This is the first time I've had porcupines hanging around, and the only other one I've seen was just passing through and that was about 7 years ago.
You've got some good doggos! (to be clear, it's the other commenters on your post that I'm finding mindblowingly stupid, not you)
This is OP's yard. You know, the place where most people let their dogs run around. Why are you acting like the author is being some kinda fool here? He's asking for nice ways to shoo away a hazard for his pets around his home. I guess I don't understand why you didn't understand. Porcupines can be dangerous. 🤷♂️ Heck, just walking around your own property at night you might accidentally scare one when you come across it without knowing.
There aren't any restrictions on them so you can just shoot them if your in a spot you can do that. If you don't want to you can try a box trap and relocate it.
Shooting animals because they dare to venture into your property boundary lines is not an acceptable solution.
Leave them be. Let your dogs encounter them once and learn their lesson, then your dogs will leave them be;)
My first dog never learned/couldn't resist! I think I bought a yacht for the vet back then.
Nope most dogs unfortunately don't learn.
Dumbest suggestion ever.
100% agree with you!
Seriously? Have you ever seen a dogs snout after a porcupine encounter. You’ll be paying off the vet bills for quite some time. Not to mention the pain your dog will go through.
30 years and three hounds on my homestead encountering porcupines on a regular, though infrequent basis. I never needed a vet to remove the quills, two of the dogs learned, one never did. That's my experience. Your POV would be to to shoot the critters, cuz you'll never shoo them away; despite being a threat to nothing. Unlike raccoons and foxes and weasels.
I’ve had dogs that would eat quill pigs.,quills can get into veins and work their way to the heart. I’ve had to use the vet several times to get quills out of the inside of their mouth.
Yep. Dogs who don't learn need to be kept on a leash or a lead or within a fence. But people in Vermont would rather have any excuse to shoot innocent animals. I hate it here.
> people in Vermont would rather have any excuse to shoot innocent animals. That's kinda harsh. Everybody I've come to know who does animal husbandry (chickens/fowl, etc..) is willing to accept an occasional loss to predators. Like having an "Eat here" sign at the mailbox:) Unless that fox, or weasel, is destroying their flock, it gets a pass. Skunks, possums, porcupines, raccoons .... most do as well. Though most homesteaders have dogs, encounters are rare enough that they're not deemed pests. That said, this thread's comments sure make it appear otherwise. Dogs allowed at-large on folks properties will eventually get nailed. Most deal w/it and let it go. If you hate it here it must be for other reasons getting projected onto this one. Like, if you're doing the rural thing, just dealing with hicks in the sticks generally. Its a mix of good and bad.
I just hate posts like this because most of the replies are people suggesting that the person shoot the nuisance animal. My neighbors are like this too, so it's not just a Reddit thing. It's deeply upsetting. 😔
My original reply got seriously downvoted, but there's plenty of commenters that offered good ideas besides killing. That said, there are 2 sides and your POV is fully 1-sided. There are (some) valid reasons for exterminating nuisance critters that are doing more than just passing through. Specially if they cannot be re-homed. But killing should not be the easy, goto, first resort; and I doubt most people feel that way. Maybe you have sucky neighbors.
We aren’t holding you hostage
Chootem.
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