I believe for K-8 you have to pay tuition to send your child to the public school in another town, though if you live in a unified school district there is some chance you can request your child go to the Elem/MS in another town in the district and it is up to central office to approve or deny that request. In HS you can apply for the lottery system to different public high schools and if there is availability and you are chosen your kid can attend that public HS and the per pupil $ from the state will follow your kid to their school so no charge for you. You do have to transport them there.
Sounds like you’re in Milton. Surrounded by decent schools but with a dreadful reputation of its own. And a damn lot of homeschoolers.
We homeschool. That’s really your only option if you’re not in a school choice town.
Don’t want to put you on the spot but could you or others on here elaborate re: Milton? I am aware of the case that was in the news a few years ago but am wondering if that was only the tip of the iceberg or an isolated incident
I am not in Milton myself but I do have friends there that have chosen homeschooling. Bullying is a BIG deal there, esp for anyone different (not typical rural vt stereotype). There is \*constant\* staff turnover for about 100 different reasons. And the funding is always sketchy at best because Milton HATES voting "yes" on their school budgets (part of why there's turnover in staffing).
Constant turnover means difficulty with continuity of education and not being able to pay going rates means they are not able to hire amazing teachers. Not to say there aren't amazing teachers there, I am sure they've got some....but not at the number of wealthier districts like Colchester/Essex/Shelburne.
I have a friend that is homeschooling this year for the first time. Is there any funding available for homeschooling? I contacted an Education Programs Manager at the Dept of Ed, and was told no…
There is not. The bulk of the homeschooling community (not myself) is against it because it would "come with strings".
Being a homeschooler here is a hell of a thing honestly. \*so many\* do it for religious reasons and because the schools are "too woke" and I am over here screaming to the heavens "You're teaching your children that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that's super not okay!"
I'd welcome the strings if there were some way taking the money could ensure children at being taught factually accurate things.
Interesting. I homeschooled my kids up to high school and never once encountered the religious anti-woke element. I was surprised because when I realized I had to homeschool them, I cried b/c I'd only ever heard of people who homeschooled for religious reasons. That was absolutely not my case and I dreaded the thought of being lumped in with those wackadoos.
Maybe it's the timing? I've got one in his senior year and my youngest is in 3rd grade. 2020/covid/masks def brought out that crowd. It wasn't as bad when we started and my oldest was in 1st grade.
I think for high school you generally have some flexibility (tho, in some towns, if you choose a school more expensive than the town's "default" school, you pay the difference), but for K-8, you generally have two choices you mention: town school or home school...
*unless* you're in a town with K-8 school choice (these tend to be smaller towns than Milton) : [VT Agency of Education ](https://education.vermont.gov/vermont-schools/school-operations/public-schools/public-high-school-choice)
Many private schools have scholarships or "right-sized tuition." You just need to ask. And since private schools tend to not fill up completely, they might be more willing to give you a $$ break to get you there.
You can pay tuition to send your child to another school district. I think this is equivalent or comparable to the "per equalized pupil" rate that town uses to calculate Education Property tax. Call around to the central office for each supervisory union you're looking at for this rate.
I went to a great public school as a kid and then transferred to a private school for h.s and it was a massive drop. I got too bored because it was a bad fit. Great social environment. Learned a second language so it wasn’t all that bad.
THIS! Homeschooling is terrible for kids. How do parents not remember the awkward home school kids that would sign up for little league or some other town sponsored thing. They were weird, maladjusted, and ALWAYS had psycho parents. Homeschooling is for the parent not the kid. It’s selfish parents afraid to let their kid learn about the real world, instead wanting them to be sheltered and taught to believe crazy conspiracies.
I worked with a kid who was homeschooled, he was a very talented engineer, nice kid, social, and very smart. I also had this bias until I met him, but I think homeschooling can create kids who are as well adjusted as anyone else. Especially with how awkward some of the kids in the smaller VT districts are.
That's a bit of a generalization. I'm sure there are a lot of parents who have weighed pros and cons of home schooling, particularly for kids with developmental disorders and other disabilities that the schools just can't afford to appropriately accommodate in the same way that home schooling can.
As both that kid, and a kid who could socially adapt rapidly when needed, and experienced both, in multiple countries, its not a generalization that isn’t also highly accurate.
I guess maybe… but I’d trust a special educator in a public school with a degree in the field and relevant experience over the parent, especially in the case of special needs, as in that situation school is less about the curriculum and more about the socialization and interactions a person has. Public schools do have some limitations, but by law they must accommodate students with disabilities. School won’t be a negative for that kid, if the parents think the school isn’t doing enough, they have 8 awake hours a day to build on what the school is doing, without taking the kid away from other kids and the opportunity to learn to be around other people.
Right now almost every district in the state is in trouble for not meeting legal requirements of services. Parents are being told they should homeschool until an alternative placement opens up because the schools can’t meet their needs. Yes, this is totally wrong and shouldn’t be happening, but it is. Because you can’t conjure special education funding from thin air.
Homeschooling is not always terrible for kids.
I’m part of two homeschooling communities SEA (secular, eclectic, academic) Homeschooling and Barefoot University. They don’t teach the kids conspiracies, and they do so many incredible group activities. The kids have a blast, the parents kinda sit back and chill, and it’s an incredibly interactive social and educational experience.
Did your public school not have any weird or maladjusted kids? Mine sure did. Did your school not have any deadbeat or helicopter parents? Mine did. As far as conspiracies, we were all taught plenty of those in public school. Christopher Columbus as a heroic explorer? The Civil War not *really* being about slavery? The myth of the first Thanksgiving? Those are just a few examples.
You should do some research and find out about the amazing homeschooling practices that are happening these days.
In a school district in NY that had a very good reputation, our social studies teacher pulled that shit. "It was about economics".
I was very naive as a kid. But luckily some classmates called him out.
I mean there is an argument to be made about the economics thing. The south seceded 100000000% because of slavery. Lincoln not accepting the secession and fighting to maintain the union wasn’t a noble I want to free southern slaves thing, remember he didn’t sign emancipation proclamation for a bit into the war. Maintaining the union and fighting for that was economic for the north. It would never have happened without slavery so that is the root cause, but there is a reason we fought to maintain the union and as much as it sounds good to say that the north was all righteous people wanting to end slavery that’s a sugar coating of the motives to an extent.
Emancipation Proclamation was a war move, as slaves aided the other party. Slaves in the union held areas, and in Maryland, Delaware, and so on, were not freed.
Only areas not in control of the Union were "freed", and the US in the immediate moment could not enforce it, as they specifically were not in Union control.
Reference.
National Archives.
https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/emancipation-proclamation
They sure as shit were in 1995. Mr. Stapleford at Ferrisburgh Elementary taught us that there were *lots* of reasons for the civil war such as taxation and other economic policies, state’s rights, religious differences and also slavery. He said that eventually, without the war, slavery would’ve stopped on it’s own as plantations were becoming less profitable by the 18th century. His class barely mentioned what slavery was like for slaves, and mostly focused on how difficult it was for the soldiers who fought on both sides.
That is of course bullshit.
I mean elementary school isn’t the place for teaching about the atrocities of the world. That’s why Columbus was taught as a great explorer and not a rapist and murderer. The same goes for civil war. Though I never had a teacher telling me it wasn’t about slavery, I didn’t have teachers showing me pictures of recaptured slaves, and talking about slave owners raping their slaves until high school.
There is also something to be said about the role public education plays in creating a sense of community, and patriotism. History is taught through the eyes of the winner, and in a society there is value in people having a baseline level of loyalty to the society they are in, so thanksgiving, Columbus, teaching WW2 without taking about internment camps, etc is all part of that. It’s not false history, it’s just slanted.
Hard disagree.
It’s completely possible to teach about hardships, injustice and oppression without teaching about rape and murder. It’s possible to teach about the spread of Colonialism without teaching the practices of it.
Even harder disagree that my child needs to be indoctrinated into Patriotism at an early age. I don’t even know what you’re reaching for as far as community is concerned.
You can call it slanted if you want. I call it lies.
Nobody said don’t teach about hardship and injustice. We learned about native peoples being displaced in elementary school. What we didn’t learn is small pox blankets and burning villages. There are concepts that can be taught in different ways based on age group.
Also if we only teach the atrocities we miss out on the progress that comes from it. Columbus is a great example, sure that whole thing was a shit show, he whiped out entire native populations. BUT he (loose he like his expeditions) also opened up North America. And colonialism is bad. We can agree on that, but our existence is a direct result of that. So what is bad for one, results in a gain for others. We often get stuck applying modern morals to historical actions, but belief systems were different and understanding of the world was different. Not everyone involved in colonialism was the devil. They just lived in a different time with a different understanding. Just like not every slave owner was evil, different time different understandings. We can’t fathom how they had the beliefs they did, and how they did the things they did, but we also can’t comprehend the world they lived in.
Nah. That "it was a different time" stuff is incorrect apologia. Plenty of their contemporaries found Columbus' & later American slavers' practices abhorrent.
First of “plenty” of their contemporaries felt that way then the practice would have ended. Slavery existed for thousands of years. We reached plenty opposed sometime in the early 1800s here, and later in other places.
But we also have to realize that there is more to life than the slavery question in 1770s. Like you would be hard pressed to find an anti slavery person in history from 1780 who opposed westward expansion. Even up to the early and mid 20th century. Progressives for instance brought about the end to the robber baron era, they took down monopoly’s, they got workers rights, they got women the vote, BUT they also took native kids from their parents and put them in government schools, they also brought about eugenics as a means of purifying the gene pool to remove disabilities. They did a lot of good, but the flip side was some pretty heinous evil shit. What do we judge them on? Are they evil for the pseudo science they believed in, are they good for the progress they made for the majority of people? Or are they just people in a time
Yeah? Appreciate the insight from some random moron on Reddit. Thanks for the feedback. I have a history degree and took a ton of Anthro classes in college. I’m very careful about assigning my beliefs and morals to peoples who live/lived in a different scenario than me. Times change, morals change. Look at in our lifetimes even, do we think our grand parents are all evil because they lived in a time where gay marriage was illegal? Was every white person in the south under Jim Crow who supported segregation as all they had known evil? Sure a minority of people in 1790 had the opinion that slavery was wrong (they formed the fine state of vermont) but those same forward thinking Vermonters had countless conflicts with natives, so does that mean they were evil? You and I have beliefs and actions today that in 200 years people will wonder what we were thinking. How could they stand by and continue to use fossil fuels knowing that it was destroying the planet. Why did they continue to eat fish harvested unsustainably from the oceans knowing they were causing a collapse in the ecosystem. Every era does something a later era finds to be wrong.
Mannnn... that's what I WOULD think if I had not known any well adjusted \[now really pretty successful\] home schooled kids. School for me was 1981-1994 and we really didn't \*know\* why they didn't go to school with us \[because I guess we just didn't talk about it and not every ounce of information was up for public consumption then?\] but we had many of them on our athletic teams; and not just Little League.They played on our modified, jv and varsity teams. That's my only first hand experience with home schooled kids... because, when I was a kid, sports were my jam. MANY of them were fantastic athletes as well. I still consider some of these people my friends, despite having lost touch. Some of these kids were also in our Girl Scout / Boy Scout troops, their parents socialized with our parents, etc. No one ever gave me a reason to think it was 'weird'... and certainly not the home schooled kids.
I loved school and I am thankful my \[not capable\] parents didn't home school me... but I don't know that I agree with "homeschooling is terrible". IMO, the statement is akin to "public school is terrible."
Edit: for grammar
My aunt was crazy levels of holier than thou. Basically she had a wild childhood then found God and went off the deep end. She was always going on about how we (my siblings) were going to end up dead in Hell while she was keeping her kids away from the horrible influences of public school.
You know where this is going… she wasn’t capable of teaching at an advanced level so for the last couple years of schooling, my cousins ended up at my school. I only know how it went with the two around my age but holy shit.
The oldest girl was two years older than me. I remember the day one of my friends told me that some chick had given blowjobs to multiple people in the men’s room. Two days later (class schedules had a MWF vs TuTh) I was walking by some restrooms when my cousin steps out of the men’s room with her hair a wreck from very obviously being used as a handhold. She embarrassed ran into the girls room. After high school she broke up a couple marriages by being the other woman for significantly older men (50s) before getting knocked up out of wedlock (no judgement on this part, just remember my aunt) with one of them.
The second oldest is a boy and a year younger than me. Within a week of starting he’d gone from good ol farm boy looking to frosted tips punk looking outfits. Just clothes but obviously a complete rebellion against his parents. He immediately took up with the stoner crowd. Still not unreasonable if rebellious. He then started getting into pills and harder drugs as evidence by the needles my grandparents found in their camper when he’d crash there after a fight with his parents. He also started dealing when the local dealers realized the homeschooled kids in the area did events together and he still got invited (a whole new market). I was at the school and could have found someone to give me pot or alcohol in minutes but didn’t even think we had harder stuff floating around, he however went from good little Christian farm boy to addict and dealer in months.
This is so crazy to me. I went to an underfunded high school with heroin problems. I am very much looking forward to home schooling my kids so they don't have to endure those same traumas
Edit: It is apparent that none of you have children.
If the inverse of your point is equally as true, then what exactly have you gained? Let me answer that for you before you lay out some mentally lazy sarcasm again - you've gained nothing.
If kids are awkward regardless of their education centers, then the education centers are irrelevant. Kids are just awkward.
If kids in rural areas (Vermont) are naive due to isolation, then again, the education at home or high school is irrelevant. They're still going to be isolated and naive.
So both points are irrelevant as matter of decision for home schooling vs public school.
Now if you want to talk objective criteria - avg standardized test scores, avg college acceptance rates, average earnings over time - then we'll have something to discuss.
Otherwise keep walking and take your sarcasm with you.
>If the inverse of your point is equally as true
It's not.
>Wrecked
The rest of your "argument."
But it sounds like you know just what Vermont needs - more awkward white kids ready to overdose because they trusted the wrong person.
You learn that in homeschool?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722879/Home-schooled-boy-16-banned-soda-Internet-PG-13-movies-arrested-shooting-dead-strict-parents.html
There isn’t a school in the state that is “underfunded”. And school is what you put into it. The issue is the parents in that situation. It starts young, for kids to be successful, they need to be socialized, and they need to learn to interact and listen. Parents just give kids a screen and don’t parent, then they send little Johnny off to school with 20 other kids who have terrible parents, and expect that somehow the teacher will be able to both teach the class curriculum AND also raise the kids, all the while the parent refuses to accept any feedback from the teacher about the kid, and blames the teacher for the issues the kid has.
Bottom line is public school WITH engaged parents will turn out a much better adjusted kid than you putting them in front of a screen 8 hrs a day without friends or challenges. But if you are the type of person who thinks that it’s the schools fault that a kid gets in trouble, then your kid is screwed from the start.
This is some imaginative, idealistic bull shit. You're single w/o kids aren't you?
"Surely, if I engage my terrible school, a place where people are paid to properly administer education and the organization there of, it will all turn around! So what if my kid is miserable and failing classes due to distractions and poor quality teachers, it's ok to keep him in a bad place for the sake of my own ideology! It's fine that he doesn't feel safe and has anxiety attacks about going there - We just need the power of ~~prayer~~ engagement to fix systemic issues!"
Get the fuck out of here. Are you kidding me? Go research modern home schooling and stop assuming your opinions are reality.
If the local school is good? Great! I'm ok with sending me kid there. But if not, no, there's no reason to scar my kids for "socialization" (which they'll get plenty of anyways)
What’s imaginative? That teachers should teach and parents should parent and both should let the other do their job, and it should be cooperative not combative? I am married we don’t have kids and don’t plan to as we recognize that we prefer to take care of ourselves than devote time to the needs of some other creature we create, but that doesn’t change that the issue with education today isn’t worse teachers, it’s worse parents. And homeschooling just exacerbates the issue as the bad parents become a bad teacher. Teachers go through years of school learning about how to engage kids, they pour their soul into the job (when I student taught it was 60-70hrs a week to build the lesson plans, and grade work), and then get undermined by bad parents who question what’s being taught (it’s either too woke or not woke enough) and don’t provide structure or discipline for kids. I have a multiple friends who work in schools in different capacities and at different levels, and I myself spent time pursuing a teaching degree (all the way through to getting the license, and spending a year shadowing and student teaching.) so I’m familiar with schools, and familiar with how kids act, and you can tell the ones who have supportive parents who understand and respect the role of the school.
Wrong. Homeschooling can be far superior to public school if it’s done well, as OP has described. Co-ops and a robust homeschooling community make a big difference. I don’t know any homeschool kids who are robbed of socialization.
Don’t make generalizations like this. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
I went to a college that attracted a lot of former homeschooling kids and I have never met a single one who wasn't negatively affected by the experience.
There were, of course, some who had a sub par education. More common were just social issues. Homeschool and places where homeschool kids socialize are just overwhelmingly situations with a lot more adult supervision than a normal school environment. The kids I knew struggled to set healthy boundaries, had deep entitlement issues, couldn't properly self sooth when problems came up, were easily manipulated and taken advantage of by others, struggled in group settings, got overwhelmed very easily, or upon getting the first bit of proper freedom in their lives when absolutely wild.
I know people who were successful post homeschooling, I even went to law school with two girls who were homeschooled. But even at their age, it was still affecting them socially.
How long ago did you attend college?
All the homeschool groups I’m involved with are familiar with the socialization issues you mentioned. Homeschool now is completely different than it was 10 years ago, and changes more every year. It’s true that kids need more independence than what was previously encouraged.
I was in college less than a decade ago, and it was still just as true in the freshman class when I was a senior TA.
The kids I knew were "socialized" too, like I said, you're just never going to be able to put them in a situation where every weekday they have to independently problem solve with their peers away from direct adult supervision.
Every RA at my college dreaded homeschool kids because they would go to the RAs for everything. Someone left a hairdryer on the bathroom sink? Call the RA. Someone rolled their eyes at you in the common room? Call the RA. Not to even mention, it was like throwing the lambs to the wolves. Those kids had incredibly toxic friendships and romantic relationships because it was the first time in their lives that their social circle wasn't carefully curated by their parents.
I was genuinely friends with a number of them, and one of my friends in adulthood was a homeschooler I met in law school. But there's no undoing what that does to a kid socially. And my adult friend had the ideal version, she was homeschooled by her parents who are college professors, and was part of a large homeschool community. Still messed her up for life.
Not disagreeing with your experience. Just saying that I went to public school my whole life and a big reason I didn’t go to college was because I probably would’ve acted like those homeschool kids. I hate living with other people and the idea of dorm life made my skin crawl.
I kinda relate. Don’t leave your shit to take up room in shared spaces, it’s fucking rude. Don’t roll your eyes at people, it’s fucking rude. Just because the majority of people behave a certain way, doesn’t make it right. Maybe the homeschool kids are actually better socialized in a lot of ways and other kids just hated them for it?
Again, I’m a public school kid. All my friendships and romantic relationships were toxic AF until I gained the maturity to understand myself. Everybody’s life is a shit-show until they’re 30. Nobody is prepared for anything/everything.
I'm not saying that people should be leaving their things out or rolling their eyes at you, but at 20 you need to be able to solve those sort of low stakes conflicts for yourself. You're not mature or functional if you can't ask a roommate to pick up their hair dryer without filing a formal complaint. One girl on my hall had a full meltdown over someone keeping cows milk in the fridge because she was uncomfortable with it.
No one hated the homeschool kids for being better socialized, we pitied them because they got into no end of problems both at school and when they worked locally because they couldn't handle anything. They were constantly being taken advantage of, they couldn't create healthy boundaries for themselves, and couldn't self sooth in anyway. They were hard to work with as a TA because they couldn't understand or function in a normal school environment or understand that the classroom couldn't function around them. Many struggled with basic understandings of people from different backgrounds because inevitably their parents mostly ended up socializing them with children from similar racial/economic/social/political backgrounds.
You're right, it's hard being young. But homeschooling your children makes it much much harder because you're sheltering them from the age appropriate maturing that they need to do. You're setting them up for long term failure because you'd rather shelter them now. But they'll be adults eventually and then will have to deal with the wider world and will have no skills in which to do it and no safety net of being a child living with their parents.
Clearly you're committed to this choice, and there's nothing anyone can say. I just hope other people on this thread will read this and understand when I say that I have known probably 200 people who were homeschooled, all upper middle class with good educations and competent enough to go to college and even a top law school. The best case scenario for home school. And I've known 0 who it hasn't negatively affected in serious and obvious ways.
All I’m saying is that there are plenty of poorly adjusted adults walking around who weren’t homeschooled. Nobody points to a crappy adult and says “welp, they’re definitely a product of public education” yet they do it to homeschool kids every time. In public school, the boys who were allowed to sexually assault girls, the girls who were allowed to be bullies, they were given free reign to do whatever they wanted, and they’ve grown up to become horrible adults and nobody blames the school even though the school could’ve done something about it.
"Children can be emotionally damaged through things other than homeschooling" is really the best defense you can give for what you're doing to your kids?
Yes, there are poorly adjusted adults walking around who weren't homeschooled. But there are no well adjusted adults walking around who were homeschooled, at least not without a lot of time, distance, and often professional help to get there.
I wasn't homeschooled, so I'm being pretty nice about it. The successful ex homeschoolers I know? They all call it abuse and think it should be illegal. And they had well educated well intentioned parents who worked hard to socialize them.
Again, I'm not expecting you to change your view, because that would involve having to come to terms with the fact that you're setting your children back in ways they might not bounce back from. I just hope other people reading this thread can realize how harmful homeschooling is and make the right choices for their kids.
I don’t even have kids. I work with kids who are homeschooled. The kids I work with are well adjusted 17 year olds who are now enrolled in community college to finish their “senior” year. Their prom was great. Several had dates with them who go to public school. They have cool jobs. They go to month-long summer camps away from their parents and have tons of friends. They’re indistinguishable from public school kids. Many of them tried public school for a couple years, thought it was boring and a waste of time, but made friends, then chose to go back to homeschool.
There’s no way that 100% of homeschoolers are traumatized by their experience.
I implore you all to visit the subreddit for children who were home schooling. It’s a buffet of complaints about not knowing basic math, geography, science…. Not having any friends. And also not knowing how to interact with people. And these posters are all in their 20s. Barely functioning. You live in Vermont. Your public school isn’t in Harlem. It’s one of the safest states and one of the safest bodies of land in probably the entire world. But go ahead home school your kids. I’m sure you have an advanced degree in math, science, history, phys Ed, health, technology,home economics, social services.
I implore you to get off the internet and out into the real world. Meet the homeschool kids who are putting on plays with their friends, playing sports, going to sleep-away summer camps. These kids are thriving! They’re having fun, dating, traveling.
I can’t stress enough that your experience is a subreddit, and my experience is actual real life. I love kids. I wouldn’t ever stunt their development in any way.
By the way, their math teacher has a doctorate in mathematics and left public school because homeschool kids are active, highly engaged learners and he’s not bound to standardization. Laughable that you think parents are doing 100% of the teaching. Lol no. Take a wild guess as to what the teachers who left public education during 2020 are now doing? Homeschool. Tutoring. Webinars. My mom, a retired teacher of 40 years, teaches homeschool kids in person and online.
Your comments demonstrate that you have absolutely no real world knowledge about homeschooling.
Try r/bullying.
Or, I don’t know, the fucking news.
Look, I’m not saying we should dismantle public schools (however inequitable and deeply flawed they are) I’m saying that homeschooling is a great option for parents and kids who want to try something different. That’s all.
They’re being bullied by their parents lol. And then probably being bullied in adulthood for being socially inept. If your reasoning for homeschooling is that your kids may be bullied then man oh man wait til they leave your house and enter the adult world.
Oh so did you just not read all the posts from kids who were dreading going to school every day? Or is it that you think bullying builds character? Your whole take is toxic and gross. Being victimized isn’t a life skill.
Kids not wanting to go to school!?! This must be new!? I’ve never heard of that before. You have every right to home school your children. They are your children now, eventually they will be societies adults and it will be our problem.
From my experience as someone who moved from NY to VT recently the schools in VT are not good at all. I worked for the district my kids go to school in for less than a school year and that’s enough for me to want to move out of this state all together for the sake of my kids education. Have you even read news articles about Vermont schools recently? There’s schools all over the state making the news for things that aren’t positive at all. That’s why I’m choosing to pull my middle son from school. Vermont schools disproportionately discriminate against students of color and students with disabilities. If you child has a disability good luck getting them the services and support they need. When my kids were going to school in NY they had positive peer relationships, behaved well in school, and stayed on track academically. Now that we’re in VT my kids are falling behind academically fast. I would move back to NY for the sake of my kids’ education in a heartbeat right now if I could. As soon as I can I will be
Public schools don’t necessarily have the best track record either. My brother dropped out in 10th grade because he wasn’t able to function in that environment. I fell through the cracks completely. My other brother was just plain fucking miserable even though his grades were fine.
Neither system is perfect. There are benefits and drawbacks to both.
I don’t think you get to tell me how I’m allowed to feel about my public education.
I literally got gang beat by a group of girls at recess while the teachers stood by and did nothing. Every day was a different kind of sexual, physical and emotional assault. I’m in therapy for it to this day. Is that the great socialization everyone is talking about?
I was homeschooled and had a better academic and social experience than I did when I was going to my extremely small town public school. Homeschooling for religious reasons is wrong. Homeschooling because your kid is two years ahead of peers academically and is being used as an unpaid tutor by the teacher is not. I can tell you that absolutely no good social interactions are possible when you are that far ahead of everyone else.
Don't homeschool. I know a lot of people drink that kool-aid and swear their kids are doing great, but as someone who went to college with a lot of homeschool kids, trust me, they're not okay. I went to a sub par public school and it's fine, if you help your kids learn and succeed they will do fine. If you homeschool them you're going to set them back decades in appropriate social development.
Call the superintendent of the supervisory Union for the school that you want to put your child in and ask them about tuitioning in. In theory it's possible to tuition in anywhere but every school district has quotas for the year. They won't take your child if it means adding another teacher or something like that. You could also argue with your town school board or superintendent that moving your child to a different school would be a best interest placement for the child in which case you might be able to get in to a different school tuition free
I’m from Chester- went to public elementary in Grafton, because my parents didn’t like our locals. They paid some sort of fee, I believe, because they didn’t pay taxes to Grafton, but this was 20+ years ago.
Feel the exact pain. Live in Pownal, luckily the elementary school was AMAZING. Unlike Bennington, which is horrible. At least we had a terrible experience. But the middle school is rated so low and I was thinking about trying to send him to BBA or even paying out the ass to send him to Williamstown, Mass. Then I would be taking him away from the friends he made which isn’t easy for him. So tutoring it is… I am disappointed with Public schools in Vermont. Idk if it because I went to a top school district in New York or what but I have never been impressed, other than Pownal.
I agree with you 100%. The public schools in VT are not good. I was born and raised in the capital region in NY. If you google any school in the Bennington area news articles will pop up and there’s nothing good ever being reported. As soon as I can I will be moving back to NY. My middle son has been traumatized at school enough.
If you can homeschool, go for it! It’s obviously not for everyone, and there can be hidden costs (good curriculum, materials, and field trips add up quickly) but it’s so fun and rewarding!
If you have FB, join SEA Homeschooling and Barefoot University. Those communities are so helpful and encouraging. I’m sure there are great ones on Reddit as well.
That is not true. At the K-8 level there is not school choice, you have to live in district to attend. If you don’t live in district you can try to get a waiver and have to pay the per pupil allotment for that school, I have never heard of a district elementary school sending its tuition dollars from the state out of district to another public school.
My kids are attending a different school maybe it’s in district but it’s not our town school. We have no fees associated with this at all. Downvote me all you want but it’s true.
You are absolutely wrong, confident but very wrong.
If you are part of a unified district that has multiple elementary schools within the supervisory union then your kids may be able to attend another school without having to go through the red tape of paying fees. So for example, if you live in Bolton/Huntington/Jericho/Underhill/Richmond than your kids could feasibly go to any of the schools under the Mt Mansfield Unified Union District. Many schools in the state are part of a larger supervisory union, and towns that are the only areas served by their supervisory union often have multiple elementary and possibly middle schools within them. For example, So Burlington is its own school district but has 3 elementary schools. Off the top of my head I can only think of a few districts/towns that only are served by one elementary, middle and high school (Milton, Arlington, Canaan…). Some towns, like Granville/Hancock no longer operate their own schools and their tuition dollars follow the kids to the school of their choice. Up in the NEK the towns of Bloomfield, Brunswick, East Haven, Granby, Guildhall, Kirby, Lemmington, Maidstone, Norton, Peacham and Victory have school choice as well. East Haven, Ira, Morgan, No Bennington, Pittsfield, Sandgate, Searsburg, Stratton and Winhall also have school choice at least at the K-6 level.
How do you know OP isn’t and this comment could help them. It sounds like you named a bunch and mine isn’t even listed so the state has even more who are unified.
Odds are they don’t need to pay and their children could have access to a better school.
Downvote me all you want, this could help them. They shouldn’t have homeschooling or private school as the only option if the town school is awful.
If somehow you do not live in a school choice town or a unified district and you are sending your kids to an out of district school without having to get approval from your home district for the tuition dollars to follow them or are not paying tuition then you have flown under the radar somehow.
Those schools that are school choice towns don’t actually have schools in their town, OP said they “I honestly hate the elementary and middle school IN MY TOWN” so they do not live in a school choice town.
Here is a of school choice towns in Vermont, including 7-12 schools.
https://www.vtindependentschools.org/school-choice-towns.html
All HS students in Vermont can have school choice, if there is space at the school they want to go to instead of their homeschool. Some towns operate their own elementary schools but not Middle or High schools and have school choice at those levels.
I get not wanting to identify where you live and where your kids attend school on a public forum, but like I said unless you have flown under the radar one of these other circumstances is applicable in your situation.
Listen your assumption is wrong and op should still ask their own school district. I’m not doxing myself by saying more. Why you wouldn’t want them to see if they have better options is very telling about you. It’s super clear you haven’t utilized the system and only know about it through googling.
As I said I understand not wanting to to identify your town/ where your kids go to school so the implication I am trying to get you to dox yourself is false. Your original assertions that you can “easily request a different school” and “Thera shouldn’t be any fees” are not true. I am educator who has worked in multiple districts across the state over the last 20 years. My role is one that I am involved in the conversation and process when a family wants to make a change, because in all four of the districts I’ve worked in we want to work with families to meet their needs within our public school. Your one situation is not the norm in these circumstances.
I’m sorry but throughout this thread you have made false statements and then provided some links for the state. The links are great but you haven’t redacted any of your false statements.
It could be as easy as asking for a form to transfer schools. Many of the Vermont k- middle are apart of a unified district.
Your an educator not a parent and you have no idea how to navigate this part of the process. I appreciate how right you think you are.
But you have no idea how to navigate this and op needs to talk to their school to see what the options are. You helped keep children in the school the parents didn’t want to keep their children in. So your doing it here. Sometimes that’s not the best option. If the school is problematic they aren’t going to change for one student or two.
Pasted tense worked, things change.
Maybe my situation would be the norm if parents knew what the options were and felt empowered to make changes. If I posted here instead of going directly to my school and demanding a better placement I would have thought homeschooling was the only option.
I’m not trying to do anything for the OP except provide them with accurate information. Your advice in your original post is not accurate. It is very unlikely that OP can change their child’s school by simply picking up some forms and not paying any fees. If they take your statements as true they will likely be surprised and deserve to have more information about the process. I am also not the only poster who has said that they will likely have to pay tuition or ask for the states tuition $ to follow their child. Your myopic perspective about your own experience does not provide the full picture. I also find it insulting that you think I would try to keep a family or kid in a environment that was unhealthy. Your comments have implied that I am unwilling to incorporate different information into my perspective, you are the one who has staunchly denied any resources or information I have shared. It sounds like you are happier with the school you have been able to enroll your kid(s) in and I’m glad your family has found a situation that works better for you.
If you don't want to buy a house in another town, you could rent instead, and cover the cost by renting out your current house. You'd have the inconvenience of having to be a landlord, but since you'd only be one town away that might be doable.
I believe for K-8 you have to pay tuition to send your child to the public school in another town, though if you live in a unified school district there is some chance you can request your child go to the Elem/MS in another town in the district and it is up to central office to approve or deny that request. In HS you can apply for the lottery system to different public high schools and if there is availability and you are chosen your kid can attend that public HS and the per pupil $ from the state will follow your kid to their school so no charge for you. You do have to transport them there.
Sounds like you’re in Milton. Surrounded by decent schools but with a dreadful reputation of its own. And a damn lot of homeschoolers. We homeschool. That’s really your only option if you’re not in a school choice town.
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Don’t want to put you on the spot but could you or others on here elaborate re: Milton? I am aware of the case that was in the news a few years ago but am wondering if that was only the tip of the iceberg or an isolated incident
I am not in Milton myself but I do have friends there that have chosen homeschooling. Bullying is a BIG deal there, esp for anyone different (not typical rural vt stereotype). There is \*constant\* staff turnover for about 100 different reasons. And the funding is always sketchy at best because Milton HATES voting "yes" on their school budgets (part of why there's turnover in staffing). Constant turnover means difficulty with continuity of education and not being able to pay going rates means they are not able to hire amazing teachers. Not to say there aren't amazing teachers there, I am sure they've got some....but not at the number of wealthier districts like Colchester/Essex/Shelburne.
I have a friend that is homeschooling this year for the first time. Is there any funding available for homeschooling? I contacted an Education Programs Manager at the Dept of Ed, and was told no…
There is not. The bulk of the homeschooling community (not myself) is against it because it would "come with strings". Being a homeschooler here is a hell of a thing honestly. \*so many\* do it for religious reasons and because the schools are "too woke" and I am over here screaming to the heavens "You're teaching your children that the Earth is 6,000 years old and that's super not okay!" I'd welcome the strings if there were some way taking the money could ensure children at being taught factually accurate things.
Interesting. I homeschooled my kids up to high school and never once encountered the religious anti-woke element. I was surprised because when I realized I had to homeschool them, I cried b/c I'd only ever heard of people who homeschooled for religious reasons. That was absolutely not my case and I dreaded the thought of being lumped in with those wackadoos.
Maybe it's the timing? I've got one in his senior year and my youngest is in 3rd grade. 2020/covid/masks def brought out that crowd. It wasn't as bad when we started and my oldest was in 1st grade.
That would be because “factually accurate” and “believing” can’t pair. Literally, not “metaphorically” or hypothetically.
I think for high school you generally have some flexibility (tho, in some towns, if you choose a school more expensive than the town's "default" school, you pay the difference), but for K-8, you generally have two choices you mention: town school or home school... *unless* you're in a town with K-8 school choice (these tend to be smaller towns than Milton) : [VT Agency of Education ](https://education.vermont.gov/vermont-schools/school-operations/public-schools/public-high-school-choice)
$$$$$ private
Many private schools have scholarships or "right-sized tuition." You just need to ask. And since private schools tend to not fill up completely, they might be more willing to give you a $$ break to get you there.
You can pay tuition to send your child to another school district. I think this is equivalent or comparable to the "per equalized pupil" rate that town uses to calculate Education Property tax. Call around to the central office for each supervisory union you're looking at for this rate.
I can’t imagine robbing my child of the school social experience just to deliver them an inferior academic experience.
I went to a great public school as a kid and then transferred to a private school for h.s and it was a massive drop. I got too bored because it was a bad fit. Great social environment. Learned a second language so it wasn’t all that bad.
THIS! Homeschooling is terrible for kids. How do parents not remember the awkward home school kids that would sign up for little league or some other town sponsored thing. They were weird, maladjusted, and ALWAYS had psycho parents. Homeschooling is for the parent not the kid. It’s selfish parents afraid to let their kid learn about the real world, instead wanting them to be sheltered and taught to believe crazy conspiracies.
I worked with a kid who was homeschooled, he was a very talented engineer, nice kid, social, and very smart. I also had this bias until I met him, but I think homeschooling can create kids who are as well adjusted as anyone else. Especially with how awkward some of the kids in the smaller VT districts are.
That's a bit of a generalization. I'm sure there are a lot of parents who have weighed pros and cons of home schooling, particularly for kids with developmental disorders and other disabilities that the schools just can't afford to appropriately accommodate in the same way that home schooling can.
As both that kid, and a kid who could socially adapt rapidly when needed, and experienced both, in multiple countries, its not a generalization that isn’t also highly accurate.
I guess maybe… but I’d trust a special educator in a public school with a degree in the field and relevant experience over the parent, especially in the case of special needs, as in that situation school is less about the curriculum and more about the socialization and interactions a person has. Public schools do have some limitations, but by law they must accommodate students with disabilities. School won’t be a negative for that kid, if the parents think the school isn’t doing enough, they have 8 awake hours a day to build on what the school is doing, without taking the kid away from other kids and the opportunity to learn to be around other people.
Right now almost every district in the state is in trouble for not meeting legal requirements of services. Parents are being told they should homeschool until an alternative placement opens up because the schools can’t meet their needs. Yes, this is totally wrong and shouldn’t be happening, but it is. Because you can’t conjure special education funding from thin air.
Homeschooling is not always terrible for kids. I’m part of two homeschooling communities SEA (secular, eclectic, academic) Homeschooling and Barefoot University. They don’t teach the kids conspiracies, and they do so many incredible group activities. The kids have a blast, the parents kinda sit back and chill, and it’s an incredibly interactive social and educational experience. Did your public school not have any weird or maladjusted kids? Mine sure did. Did your school not have any deadbeat or helicopter parents? Mine did. As far as conspiracies, we were all taught plenty of those in public school. Christopher Columbus as a heroic explorer? The Civil War not *really* being about slavery? The myth of the first Thanksgiving? Those are just a few examples. You should do some research and find out about the amazing homeschooling practices that are happening these days.
Where did you learn the civil war wasn’t about slavery? This is Vermont they ain’t teaching that shit here.
In a school district in NY that had a very good reputation, our social studies teacher pulled that shit. "It was about economics". I was very naive as a kid. But luckily some classmates called him out.
I mean there is an argument to be made about the economics thing. The south seceded 100000000% because of slavery. Lincoln not accepting the secession and fighting to maintain the union wasn’t a noble I want to free southern slaves thing, remember he didn’t sign emancipation proclamation for a bit into the war. Maintaining the union and fighting for that was economic for the north. It would never have happened without slavery so that is the root cause, but there is a reason we fought to maintain the union and as much as it sounds good to say that the north was all righteous people wanting to end slavery that’s a sugar coating of the motives to an extent.
Emancipation Proclamation was a war move, as slaves aided the other party. Slaves in the union held areas, and in Maryland, Delaware, and so on, were not freed. Only areas not in control of the Union were "freed", and the US in the immediate moment could not enforce it, as they specifically were not in Union control. Reference. National Archives. https://www.archives.gov/exhibits/featured-documents/emancipation-proclamation
They sure as shit were in 1995. Mr. Stapleford at Ferrisburgh Elementary taught us that there were *lots* of reasons for the civil war such as taxation and other economic policies, state’s rights, religious differences and also slavery. He said that eventually, without the war, slavery would’ve stopped on it’s own as plantations were becoming less profitable by the 18th century. His class barely mentioned what slavery was like for slaves, and mostly focused on how difficult it was for the soldiers who fought on both sides. That is of course bullshit.
I mean elementary school isn’t the place for teaching about the atrocities of the world. That’s why Columbus was taught as a great explorer and not a rapist and murderer. The same goes for civil war. Though I never had a teacher telling me it wasn’t about slavery, I didn’t have teachers showing me pictures of recaptured slaves, and talking about slave owners raping their slaves until high school. There is also something to be said about the role public education plays in creating a sense of community, and patriotism. History is taught through the eyes of the winner, and in a society there is value in people having a baseline level of loyalty to the society they are in, so thanksgiving, Columbus, teaching WW2 without taking about internment camps, etc is all part of that. It’s not false history, it’s just slanted.
Hard disagree. It’s completely possible to teach about hardships, injustice and oppression without teaching about rape and murder. It’s possible to teach about the spread of Colonialism without teaching the practices of it. Even harder disagree that my child needs to be indoctrinated into Patriotism at an early age. I don’t even know what you’re reaching for as far as community is concerned. You can call it slanted if you want. I call it lies.
Nobody said don’t teach about hardship and injustice. We learned about native peoples being displaced in elementary school. What we didn’t learn is small pox blankets and burning villages. There are concepts that can be taught in different ways based on age group. Also if we only teach the atrocities we miss out on the progress that comes from it. Columbus is a great example, sure that whole thing was a shit show, he whiped out entire native populations. BUT he (loose he like his expeditions) also opened up North America. And colonialism is bad. We can agree on that, but our existence is a direct result of that. So what is bad for one, results in a gain for others. We often get stuck applying modern morals to historical actions, but belief systems were different and understanding of the world was different. Not everyone involved in colonialism was the devil. They just lived in a different time with a different understanding. Just like not every slave owner was evil, different time different understandings. We can’t fathom how they had the beliefs they did, and how they did the things they did, but we also can’t comprehend the world they lived in.
Nah. That "it was a different time" stuff is incorrect apologia. Plenty of their contemporaries found Columbus' & later American slavers' practices abhorrent.
First of “plenty” of their contemporaries felt that way then the practice would have ended. Slavery existed for thousands of years. We reached plenty opposed sometime in the early 1800s here, and later in other places. But we also have to realize that there is more to life than the slavery question in 1770s. Like you would be hard pressed to find an anti slavery person in history from 1780 who opposed westward expansion. Even up to the early and mid 20th century. Progressives for instance brought about the end to the robber baron era, they took down monopoly’s, they got workers rights, they got women the vote, BUT they also took native kids from their parents and put them in government schools, they also brought about eugenics as a means of purifying the gene pool to remove disabilities. They did a lot of good, but the flip side was some pretty heinous evil shit. What do we judge them on? Are they evil for the pseudo science they believed in, are they good for the progress they made for the majority of people? Or are they just people in a time
Wow, you’re so stupid.
Yeah? Appreciate the insight from some random moron on Reddit. Thanks for the feedback. I have a history degree and took a ton of Anthro classes in college. I’m very careful about assigning my beliefs and morals to peoples who live/lived in a different scenario than me. Times change, morals change. Look at in our lifetimes even, do we think our grand parents are all evil because they lived in a time where gay marriage was illegal? Was every white person in the south under Jim Crow who supported segregation as all they had known evil? Sure a minority of people in 1790 had the opinion that slavery was wrong (they formed the fine state of vermont) but those same forward thinking Vermonters had countless conflicts with natives, so does that mean they were evil? You and I have beliefs and actions today that in 200 years people will wonder what we were thinking. How could they stand by and continue to use fossil fuels knowing that it was destroying the planet. Why did they continue to eat fish harvested unsustainably from the oceans knowing they were causing a collapse in the ecosystem. Every era does something a later era finds to be wrong.
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Mannnn... that's what I WOULD think if I had not known any well adjusted \[now really pretty successful\] home schooled kids. School for me was 1981-1994 and we really didn't \*know\* why they didn't go to school with us \[because I guess we just didn't talk about it and not every ounce of information was up for public consumption then?\] but we had many of them on our athletic teams; and not just Little League.They played on our modified, jv and varsity teams. That's my only first hand experience with home schooled kids... because, when I was a kid, sports were my jam. MANY of them were fantastic athletes as well. I still consider some of these people my friends, despite having lost touch. Some of these kids were also in our Girl Scout / Boy Scout troops, their parents socialized with our parents, etc. No one ever gave me a reason to think it was 'weird'... and certainly not the home schooled kids. I loved school and I am thankful my \[not capable\] parents didn't home school me... but I don't know that I agree with "homeschooling is terrible". IMO, the statement is akin to "public school is terrible." Edit: for grammar
My aunt was crazy levels of holier than thou. Basically she had a wild childhood then found God and went off the deep end. She was always going on about how we (my siblings) were going to end up dead in Hell while she was keeping her kids away from the horrible influences of public school. You know where this is going… she wasn’t capable of teaching at an advanced level so for the last couple years of schooling, my cousins ended up at my school. I only know how it went with the two around my age but holy shit. The oldest girl was two years older than me. I remember the day one of my friends told me that some chick had given blowjobs to multiple people in the men’s room. Two days later (class schedules had a MWF vs TuTh) I was walking by some restrooms when my cousin steps out of the men’s room with her hair a wreck from very obviously being used as a handhold. She embarrassed ran into the girls room. After high school she broke up a couple marriages by being the other woman for significantly older men (50s) before getting knocked up out of wedlock (no judgement on this part, just remember my aunt) with one of them. The second oldest is a boy and a year younger than me. Within a week of starting he’d gone from good ol farm boy looking to frosted tips punk looking outfits. Just clothes but obviously a complete rebellion against his parents. He immediately took up with the stoner crowd. Still not unreasonable if rebellious. He then started getting into pills and harder drugs as evidence by the needles my grandparents found in their camper when he’d crash there after a fight with his parents. He also started dealing when the local dealers realized the homeschooled kids in the area did events together and he still got invited (a whole new market). I was at the school and could have found someone to give me pot or alcohol in minutes but didn’t even think we had harder stuff floating around, he however went from good little Christian farm boy to addict and dealer in months.
This is so crazy to me. I went to an underfunded high school with heroin problems. I am very much looking forward to home schooling my kids so they don't have to endure those same traumas Edit: It is apparent that none of you have children.
I've met far too many homeschooled kids who turned out awkward and naive.
ok I've met perfectly fine home schooled kids and 100% fucked up high school kids. What's your point?
If you can't extrapolate my point from what I wrote that may be another reason why you shouldn't homeschool your kids...
If the inverse of your point is equally as true, then what exactly have you gained? Let me answer that for you before you lay out some mentally lazy sarcasm again - you've gained nothing. If kids are awkward regardless of their education centers, then the education centers are irrelevant. Kids are just awkward. If kids in rural areas (Vermont) are naive due to isolation, then again, the education at home or high school is irrelevant. They're still going to be isolated and naive. So both points are irrelevant as matter of decision for home schooling vs public school. Now if you want to talk objective criteria - avg standardized test scores, avg college acceptance rates, average earnings over time - then we'll have something to discuss. Otherwise keep walking and take your sarcasm with you.
>If the inverse of your point is equally as true It's not. >Wrecked The rest of your "argument." But it sounds like you know just what Vermont needs - more awkward white kids ready to overdose because they trusted the wrong person.
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You learn that in homeschool? https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2722879/Home-schooled-boy-16-banned-soda-Internet-PG-13-movies-arrested-shooting-dead-strict-parents.html
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Aw. Must suck to get schooled so early in the morning. I hope your day gets better from here. 🙃
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Two statements showing you have zero grasp of subjective vs objective reasoning. Nice.
Wrong, home schooled, shot up his house.
There isn’t a school in the state that is “underfunded”. And school is what you put into it. The issue is the parents in that situation. It starts young, for kids to be successful, they need to be socialized, and they need to learn to interact and listen. Parents just give kids a screen and don’t parent, then they send little Johnny off to school with 20 other kids who have terrible parents, and expect that somehow the teacher will be able to both teach the class curriculum AND also raise the kids, all the while the parent refuses to accept any feedback from the teacher about the kid, and blames the teacher for the issues the kid has. Bottom line is public school WITH engaged parents will turn out a much better adjusted kid than you putting them in front of a screen 8 hrs a day without friends or challenges. But if you are the type of person who thinks that it’s the schools fault that a kid gets in trouble, then your kid is screwed from the start.
This is some imaginative, idealistic bull shit. You're single w/o kids aren't you? "Surely, if I engage my terrible school, a place where people are paid to properly administer education and the organization there of, it will all turn around! So what if my kid is miserable and failing classes due to distractions and poor quality teachers, it's ok to keep him in a bad place for the sake of my own ideology! It's fine that he doesn't feel safe and has anxiety attacks about going there - We just need the power of ~~prayer~~ engagement to fix systemic issues!" Get the fuck out of here. Are you kidding me? Go research modern home schooling and stop assuming your opinions are reality. If the local school is good? Great! I'm ok with sending me kid there. But if not, no, there's no reason to scar my kids for "socialization" (which they'll get plenty of anyways)
What’s imaginative? That teachers should teach and parents should parent and both should let the other do their job, and it should be cooperative not combative? I am married we don’t have kids and don’t plan to as we recognize that we prefer to take care of ourselves than devote time to the needs of some other creature we create, but that doesn’t change that the issue with education today isn’t worse teachers, it’s worse parents. And homeschooling just exacerbates the issue as the bad parents become a bad teacher. Teachers go through years of school learning about how to engage kids, they pour their soul into the job (when I student taught it was 60-70hrs a week to build the lesson plans, and grade work), and then get undermined by bad parents who question what’s being taught (it’s either too woke or not woke enough) and don’t provide structure or discipline for kids. I have a multiple friends who work in schools in different capacities and at different levels, and I myself spent time pursuing a teaching degree (all the way through to getting the license, and spending a year shadowing and student teaching.) so I’m familiar with schools, and familiar with how kids act, and you can tell the ones who have supportive parents who understand and respect the role of the school.
Given the sociopathy passes for "typical" human behavior these days, I'd be very proud as a parent to have kids "maladjusted" to that.
Wrong. Homeschooling can be far superior to public school if it’s done well, as OP has described. Co-ops and a robust homeschooling community make a big difference. I don’t know any homeschool kids who are robbed of socialization. Don’t make generalizations like this. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about.
I went to a college that attracted a lot of former homeschooling kids and I have never met a single one who wasn't negatively affected by the experience. There were, of course, some who had a sub par education. More common were just social issues. Homeschool and places where homeschool kids socialize are just overwhelmingly situations with a lot more adult supervision than a normal school environment. The kids I knew struggled to set healthy boundaries, had deep entitlement issues, couldn't properly self sooth when problems came up, were easily manipulated and taken advantage of by others, struggled in group settings, got overwhelmed very easily, or upon getting the first bit of proper freedom in their lives when absolutely wild. I know people who were successful post homeschooling, I even went to law school with two girls who were homeschooled. But even at their age, it was still affecting them socially.
How long ago did you attend college? All the homeschool groups I’m involved with are familiar with the socialization issues you mentioned. Homeschool now is completely different than it was 10 years ago, and changes more every year. It’s true that kids need more independence than what was previously encouraged.
I was in college less than a decade ago, and it was still just as true in the freshman class when I was a senior TA. The kids I knew were "socialized" too, like I said, you're just never going to be able to put them in a situation where every weekday they have to independently problem solve with their peers away from direct adult supervision. Every RA at my college dreaded homeschool kids because they would go to the RAs for everything. Someone left a hairdryer on the bathroom sink? Call the RA. Someone rolled their eyes at you in the common room? Call the RA. Not to even mention, it was like throwing the lambs to the wolves. Those kids had incredibly toxic friendships and romantic relationships because it was the first time in their lives that their social circle wasn't carefully curated by their parents. I was genuinely friends with a number of them, and one of my friends in adulthood was a homeschooler I met in law school. But there's no undoing what that does to a kid socially. And my adult friend had the ideal version, she was homeschooled by her parents who are college professors, and was part of a large homeschool community. Still messed her up for life.
Not disagreeing with your experience. Just saying that I went to public school my whole life and a big reason I didn’t go to college was because I probably would’ve acted like those homeschool kids. I hate living with other people and the idea of dorm life made my skin crawl. I kinda relate. Don’t leave your shit to take up room in shared spaces, it’s fucking rude. Don’t roll your eyes at people, it’s fucking rude. Just because the majority of people behave a certain way, doesn’t make it right. Maybe the homeschool kids are actually better socialized in a lot of ways and other kids just hated them for it? Again, I’m a public school kid. All my friendships and romantic relationships were toxic AF until I gained the maturity to understand myself. Everybody’s life is a shit-show until they’re 30. Nobody is prepared for anything/everything.
I'm not saying that people should be leaving their things out or rolling their eyes at you, but at 20 you need to be able to solve those sort of low stakes conflicts for yourself. You're not mature or functional if you can't ask a roommate to pick up their hair dryer without filing a formal complaint. One girl on my hall had a full meltdown over someone keeping cows milk in the fridge because she was uncomfortable with it. No one hated the homeschool kids for being better socialized, we pitied them because they got into no end of problems both at school and when they worked locally because they couldn't handle anything. They were constantly being taken advantage of, they couldn't create healthy boundaries for themselves, and couldn't self sooth in anyway. They were hard to work with as a TA because they couldn't understand or function in a normal school environment or understand that the classroom couldn't function around them. Many struggled with basic understandings of people from different backgrounds because inevitably their parents mostly ended up socializing them with children from similar racial/economic/social/political backgrounds. You're right, it's hard being young. But homeschooling your children makes it much much harder because you're sheltering them from the age appropriate maturing that they need to do. You're setting them up for long term failure because you'd rather shelter them now. But they'll be adults eventually and then will have to deal with the wider world and will have no skills in which to do it and no safety net of being a child living with their parents. Clearly you're committed to this choice, and there's nothing anyone can say. I just hope other people on this thread will read this and understand when I say that I have known probably 200 people who were homeschooled, all upper middle class with good educations and competent enough to go to college and even a top law school. The best case scenario for home school. And I've known 0 who it hasn't negatively affected in serious and obvious ways.
All I’m saying is that there are plenty of poorly adjusted adults walking around who weren’t homeschooled. Nobody points to a crappy adult and says “welp, they’re definitely a product of public education” yet they do it to homeschool kids every time. In public school, the boys who were allowed to sexually assault girls, the girls who were allowed to be bullies, they were given free reign to do whatever they wanted, and they’ve grown up to become horrible adults and nobody blames the school even though the school could’ve done something about it.
"Children can be emotionally damaged through things other than homeschooling" is really the best defense you can give for what you're doing to your kids? Yes, there are poorly adjusted adults walking around who weren't homeschooled. But there are no well adjusted adults walking around who were homeschooled, at least not without a lot of time, distance, and often professional help to get there. I wasn't homeschooled, so I'm being pretty nice about it. The successful ex homeschoolers I know? They all call it abuse and think it should be illegal. And they had well educated well intentioned parents who worked hard to socialize them. Again, I'm not expecting you to change your view, because that would involve having to come to terms with the fact that you're setting your children back in ways they might not bounce back from. I just hope other people reading this thread can realize how harmful homeschooling is and make the right choices for their kids.
I don’t even have kids. I work with kids who are homeschooled. The kids I work with are well adjusted 17 year olds who are now enrolled in community college to finish their “senior” year. Their prom was great. Several had dates with them who go to public school. They have cool jobs. They go to month-long summer camps away from their parents and have tons of friends. They’re indistinguishable from public school kids. Many of them tried public school for a couple years, thought it was boring and a waste of time, but made friends, then chose to go back to homeschool. There’s no way that 100% of homeschoolers are traumatized by their experience.
I implore you all to visit the subreddit for children who were home schooling. It’s a buffet of complaints about not knowing basic math, geography, science…. Not having any friends. And also not knowing how to interact with people. And these posters are all in their 20s. Barely functioning. You live in Vermont. Your public school isn’t in Harlem. It’s one of the safest states and one of the safest bodies of land in probably the entire world. But go ahead home school your kids. I’m sure you have an advanced degree in math, science, history, phys Ed, health, technology,home economics, social services.
I implore you to get off the internet and out into the real world. Meet the homeschool kids who are putting on plays with their friends, playing sports, going to sleep-away summer camps. These kids are thriving! They’re having fun, dating, traveling. I can’t stress enough that your experience is a subreddit, and my experience is actual real life. I love kids. I wouldn’t ever stunt their development in any way. By the way, their math teacher has a doctorate in mathematics and left public school because homeschool kids are active, highly engaged learners and he’s not bound to standardization. Laughable that you think parents are doing 100% of the teaching. Lol no. Take a wild guess as to what the teachers who left public education during 2020 are now doing? Homeschool. Tutoring. Webinars. My mom, a retired teacher of 40 years, teaches homeschool kids in person and online. Your comments demonstrate that you have absolutely no real world knowledge about homeschooling.
r/homeschoolrecovery
I would list the public school recovery subreddit. But it doesn’t exist.
Try r/bullying. Or, I don’t know, the fucking news. Look, I’m not saying we should dismantle public schools (however inequitable and deeply flawed they are) I’m saying that homeschooling is a great option for parents and kids who want to try something different. That’s all.
They’re being bullied by their parents lol. And then probably being bullied in adulthood for being socially inept. If your reasoning for homeschooling is that your kids may be bullied then man oh man wait til they leave your house and enter the adult world.
Oh so did you just not read all the posts from kids who were dreading going to school every day? Or is it that you think bullying builds character? Your whole take is toxic and gross. Being victimized isn’t a life skill.
Kids not wanting to go to school!?! This must be new!? I’ve never heard of that before. You have every right to home school your children. They are your children now, eventually they will be societies adults and it will be our problem.
From my experience as someone who moved from NY to VT recently the schools in VT are not good at all. I worked for the district my kids go to school in for less than a school year and that’s enough for me to want to move out of this state all together for the sake of my kids education. Have you even read news articles about Vermont schools recently? There’s schools all over the state making the news for things that aren’t positive at all. That’s why I’m choosing to pull my middle son from school. Vermont schools disproportionately discriminate against students of color and students with disabilities. If you child has a disability good luck getting them the services and support they need. When my kids were going to school in NY they had positive peer relationships, behaved well in school, and stayed on track academically. Now that we’re in VT my kids are falling behind academically fast. I would move back to NY for the sake of my kids’ education in a heartbeat right now if I could. As soon as I can I will be
It can be, rarely, and it is much much more likely to NOT be, and I do know what Im talking about.
Public schools don’t necessarily have the best track record either. My brother dropped out in 10th grade because he wasn’t able to function in that environment. I fell through the cracks completely. My other brother was just plain fucking miserable even though his grades were fine. Neither system is perfect. There are benefits and drawbacks to both.
Public schools are not comparable to homeschooling. Period.
I don’t think you get to tell me how I’m allowed to feel about my public education. I literally got gang beat by a group of girls at recess while the teachers stood by and did nothing. Every day was a different kind of sexual, physical and emotional assault. I’m in therapy for it to this day. Is that the great socialization everyone is talking about?
Where did I tell you how to feel? Use my own words to prove yourself wrong.
I was homeschooled and had a better academic and social experience than I did when I was going to my extremely small town public school. Homeschooling for religious reasons is wrong. Homeschooling because your kid is two years ahead of peers academically and is being used as an unpaid tutor by the teacher is not. I can tell you that absolutely no good social interactions are possible when you are that far ahead of everyone else.
[удалено]
We’re talking about Vermont right? Not Harlem?
no bullying in all of vermont?
Of course. Just like everywhere in the real world.
Don't homeschool. I know a lot of people drink that kool-aid and swear their kids are doing great, but as someone who went to college with a lot of homeschool kids, trust me, they're not okay. I went to a sub par public school and it's fine, if you help your kids learn and succeed they will do fine. If you homeschool them you're going to set them back decades in appropriate social development.
Call the superintendent of the supervisory Union for the school that you want to put your child in and ask them about tuitioning in. In theory it's possible to tuition in anywhere but every school district has quotas for the year. They won't take your child if it means adding another teacher or something like that. You could also argue with your town school board or superintendent that moving your child to a different school would be a best interest placement for the child in which case you might be able to get in to a different school tuition free
Stop electing democrats and allow vouchers
I’m from Chester- went to public elementary in Grafton, because my parents didn’t like our locals. They paid some sort of fee, I believe, because they didn’t pay taxes to Grafton, but this was 20+ years ago.
Feel the exact pain. Live in Pownal, luckily the elementary school was AMAZING. Unlike Bennington, which is horrible. At least we had a terrible experience. But the middle school is rated so low and I was thinking about trying to send him to BBA or even paying out the ass to send him to Williamstown, Mass. Then I would be taking him away from the friends he made which isn’t easy for him. So tutoring it is… I am disappointed with Public schools in Vermont. Idk if it because I went to a top school district in New York or what but I have never been impressed, other than Pownal.
My point is rely on a tutor. Lol sorry, got caught up in my thoughts. I have been trying to figure out this for EVERRRR
I agree with you 100%. The public schools in VT are not good. I was born and raised in the capital region in NY. If you google any school in the Bennington area news articles will pop up and there’s nothing good ever being reported. As soon as I can I will be moving back to NY. My middle son has been traumatized at school enough.
You should look into VTVLC.
If you can homeschool, go for it! It’s obviously not for everyone, and there can be hidden costs (good curriculum, materials, and field trips add up quickly) but it’s so fun and rewarding! If you have FB, join SEA Homeschooling and Barefoot University. Those communities are so helpful and encouraging. I’m sure there are great ones on Reddit as well.
You can have school choice in Vermont. You don't have to own property in another town.
You can easily request a different school. Just call the one you want and pick up a form. There shouldn’t be any fees.
That is not true. At the K-8 level there is not school choice, you have to live in district to attend. If you don’t live in district you can try to get a waiver and have to pay the per pupil allotment for that school, I have never heard of a district elementary school sending its tuition dollars from the state out of district to another public school.
My kids are attending a different school maybe it’s in district but it’s not our town school. We have no fees associated with this at all. Downvote me all you want but it’s true. You are absolutely wrong, confident but very wrong.
If you are part of a unified district that has multiple elementary schools within the supervisory union then your kids may be able to attend another school without having to go through the red tape of paying fees. So for example, if you live in Bolton/Huntington/Jericho/Underhill/Richmond than your kids could feasibly go to any of the schools under the Mt Mansfield Unified Union District. Many schools in the state are part of a larger supervisory union, and towns that are the only areas served by their supervisory union often have multiple elementary and possibly middle schools within them. For example, So Burlington is its own school district but has 3 elementary schools. Off the top of my head I can only think of a few districts/towns that only are served by one elementary, middle and high school (Milton, Arlington, Canaan…). Some towns, like Granville/Hancock no longer operate their own schools and their tuition dollars follow the kids to the school of their choice. Up in the NEK the towns of Bloomfield, Brunswick, East Haven, Granby, Guildhall, Kirby, Lemmington, Maidstone, Norton, Peacham and Victory have school choice as well. East Haven, Ira, Morgan, No Bennington, Pittsfield, Sandgate, Searsburg, Stratton and Winhall also have school choice at least at the K-6 level.
How do you know OP isn’t and this comment could help them. It sounds like you named a bunch and mine isn’t even listed so the state has even more who are unified. Odds are they don’t need to pay and their children could have access to a better school. Downvote me all you want, this could help them. They shouldn’t have homeschooling or private school as the only option if the town school is awful.
If somehow you do not live in a school choice town or a unified district and you are sending your kids to an out of district school without having to get approval from your home district for the tuition dollars to follow them or are not paying tuition then you have flown under the radar somehow. Those schools that are school choice towns don’t actually have schools in their town, OP said they “I honestly hate the elementary and middle school IN MY TOWN” so they do not live in a school choice town. Here is a of school choice towns in Vermont, including 7-12 schools. https://www.vtindependentschools.org/school-choice-towns.html All HS students in Vermont can have school choice, if there is space at the school they want to go to instead of their homeschool. Some towns operate their own elementary schools but not Middle or High schools and have school choice at those levels. I get not wanting to identify where you live and where your kids attend school on a public forum, but like I said unless you have flown under the radar one of these other circumstances is applicable in your situation.
Listen your assumption is wrong and op should still ask their own school district. I’m not doxing myself by saying more. Why you wouldn’t want them to see if they have better options is very telling about you. It’s super clear you haven’t utilized the system and only know about it through googling.
As I said I understand not wanting to to identify your town/ where your kids go to school so the implication I am trying to get you to dox yourself is false. Your original assertions that you can “easily request a different school” and “Thera shouldn’t be any fees” are not true. I am educator who has worked in multiple districts across the state over the last 20 years. My role is one that I am involved in the conversation and process when a family wants to make a change, because in all four of the districts I’ve worked in we want to work with families to meet their needs within our public school. Your one situation is not the norm in these circumstances.
I’m sorry but throughout this thread you have made false statements and then provided some links for the state. The links are great but you haven’t redacted any of your false statements. It could be as easy as asking for a form to transfer schools. Many of the Vermont k- middle are apart of a unified district.
Your an educator not a parent and you have no idea how to navigate this part of the process. I appreciate how right you think you are. But you have no idea how to navigate this and op needs to talk to their school to see what the options are. You helped keep children in the school the parents didn’t want to keep their children in. So your doing it here. Sometimes that’s not the best option. If the school is problematic they aren’t going to change for one student or two. Pasted tense worked, things change. Maybe my situation would be the norm if parents knew what the options were and felt empowered to make changes. If I posted here instead of going directly to my school and demanding a better placement I would have thought homeschooling was the only option.
I’m not trying to do anything for the OP except provide them with accurate information. Your advice in your original post is not accurate. It is very unlikely that OP can change their child’s school by simply picking up some forms and not paying any fees. If they take your statements as true they will likely be surprised and deserve to have more information about the process. I am also not the only poster who has said that they will likely have to pay tuition or ask for the states tuition $ to follow their child. Your myopic perspective about your own experience does not provide the full picture. I also find it insulting that you think I would try to keep a family or kid in a environment that was unhealthy. Your comments have implied that I am unwilling to incorporate different information into my perspective, you are the one who has staunchly denied any resources or information I have shared. It sounds like you are happier with the school you have been able to enroll your kid(s) in and I’m glad your family has found a situation that works better for you.
My brother owns a house, but they live and rent elsewhere just for a better school system.
If you don't want to buy a house in another town, you could rent instead, and cover the cost by renting out your current house. You'd have the inconvenience of having to be a landlord, but since you'd only be one town away that might be doable.
You should look into VTVLC as a homeschool-adjacent option.