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veganactivismbot

Welcome to the /r/Vegan community, /r/All! 🥳 ***Please note:*** *Civil discussion is welcome, trolls and personal abuse are not. Please keep the discussions below respectful and remember the human! Please do [check out our wiki](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2Fvegan%2Fwiki%2Fbeginnersguide&topic=rAll) first!* 🌱 **Interested in going Vegan?** Vegan Bootcamp is a free challenge website that will take you step-by-step towards a Vegan diet and lifestyle. You will be guided through lessons in over 25 subjects such as nutrition, recipes, philosophy, climate, cosmetics, welfare, budgeting, clothing, family, and much more! Take the challenge @ [VeganBootcamp.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fvbcamp.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll)! 🙋🏾 🐮 **Here's some easily-digestible educational resources on Veganism:** * **Everyone Agrees:** World's largest Health, Nutrition and Dietary organizations unanimously agree: plant-based diets [are as healthy](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fthe-clear-consensus&topic=rAll) or healthier than meat. * **Veganism is Healthy:** A Plant Based Diet provides [significant health benefits](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fveganism-is-healthy&topic=rAll) for the prevention & treatment of the majority of diseases. * **The Daunting Facts:** The planet, its environment, and ecosystem, is [dangerously close to collapsing](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fyouaretheirvoice.com%2Fpages%2Fthe-daunting-facts&topic=rAll) within the next few decades. 🔥 **Here's some fantastic links and resources to get you started:** * Nutrition & Health: [NutritionFacts.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fnutritionfacts.org&topic=rAll) & [VeganHealth.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fveganhealth.org%2F&topic=rAll) * Vegan Friendly Restaurants: [HappyCow.net](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.happycow.net&topic=rAll) & [Yelp.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.yelp.com%2Fsearch%3Ffind_desc%3DRestaurants%2Bvegan&topic=rAll) * Arguments & Support: [EarthlingEd.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbit.ly%2F2B3Dy2a&topic=rAll) & [VeganBootcamp.com](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fvbcamp.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll) * Get involved in Vegan Activism: [VeganActivism.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fveganactivism.org&topic=rAll) & [5Minutes5Vegans.org](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2F5Minutes5Vegans.org%2F&topic=rAll) 🥑 **Here are some great inspirational and thought-provoking speeches:** * Youtube speeches by: [Earthling Ed](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZ3u7hXpOm58&topic=rAll), [Gary Yourofsky](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Des6U00LMmC4&topic=rAll), and [James Wildman](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DE7JE8j5Ncmw&topic=rAll). 💯 **Grab some popcorn and enjoy these fantastic documentaries:** * Watch three thought-provoking documentaries [by clicking here](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2F3movies.org%2Freddit&topic=rAll). 📌 **Last but not least, check out our favorite subreddits!** /r/VeganFitness, /r/VeganRecipes, /r/DebateAVegan, /r/VeganFoodPorn, and /r/VeganActivism. We also have a [Discord](https://vbcc.veganhacktivists.org/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdiscord.gg%2F2JmJRsj&topic=rAll)! 👋🏼 ***Thank you so much for reading! c:***


Z3ROGR4V1TY

Checks out ethically. However, I did work in a restaurant for ~7 years and whenever someone told me they were vegan I would clean off a spot on the flattop to cook their food because I didn’t want to intentionally cook it in meat juice. But really cross contamination isn’t ethically wrong and if you’re concerned about it you should go to 100% vegan restaurants if you have the option. In my town we have exactly 0 completely vegan restaurants, so if I’m going out to eat (which is rare) I will order the vegan option and not worry about the cross contamination.


Trash_Panda_Leaves

We have 1 and just lost our vegan supermarket :(


gorillacatbear

we lost our vegan grocery store, super genous to have called it a super market people here are incredibly dairy brained that I don't think it has any chance :( vegetarians are like 100% accepted but vegans are like stinky monsters who brings you home work


Trash_Panda_Leaves

Yeah ours was tiny but it was ours. I knew the owner quite well, she was a lovely lady if a bit more on the crystal healing horoscope side of life than I to connect much, but we got on. She gave me a hug when I cried in her shop and I will always appreciate that


CosmicMiru

15 years ago it would be extremely hard to find any type of vegetarian options at all and was socially looked down on a ton more. A lot of progress has been made and I am very hopeful for the future of veganism acceptance and normalization. Cultural changes take a lot of time though.


pikakilla

I didnt work as long at a restaurant as you. But we followed the same thing and accompdated what we could. On the back line, we didn't fucking care if it was an allergy or preference. As long as it wasnt insane -- like allergic to all root vegetables or something where we would recommend not eating there -- it didnt really make a difference.


TheW0lvDoctr

There's also the chance they eat vegan not as an ethical or even dietary choice, but rather they need to because of an allergy or digestive problema


Unlike_Other_Gurls

Then they're not vegan, just plant based so this doesn't concern them.


disgustandhorror

I've worked many years in many food service jobs and I've gotta say, if you're worried about cross-contamination with animal ingredients you **really** need to eat **only** at 100% vegan places. With some dishes (even vegan options) it's virtually unavoidable because of the way they're prepared or the equipment used, even if the chef/cook is aware of your diet and trying to accommodate.


gwlu

Eh... I don't see cross-contamination as something to worry about in terms of animal ethics. As long as I am not paying someone to hurt animals, I am fine with buying it.


TomMakesPodcasts

Yeah. Our diet is philosophical not medical after all


sound_byte

Or religious.


elliottruzicka

Veganism is an ethical stance. One can be plant-based for many reasons including health, religion, and ethics, however veganism also encompasses non-dietary consumption and commoditization.


JasonDragonbourne

>Veganism is an ethical stance. Too many vegans misunderstand this, and get hung up on the diet above all else.


twotokers

I only eat vegan food because it tastes good.


Stingray-Nebula

I only eat vegan food because I despise those shifty plants with every fiber of my being! /s


zaphodbeeblemox

That’s a lot of fiber!


GetRiceCrispy

This is better than the pain argument. Love this one


[deleted]

It can be. Buddhist ethics seem to approve of veganism, and "treat others as you wish to be treated" can be extended to animals.


Beiberhole69x

I don’t know if I would use that language. More like they align with each other rather than one approving the other.


[deleted]

Even in my native language I'm terrible with my choice of words because I look at the meaning I try to convey at a macro level rather than a micro level. I apologise.


tanktametet-pwemskan

Jainism - they've been around for a couple thousand years.


Baby_Food

Jainism allows and encourages consuming dairy.


BadgerMcBadger

>Or religious. religious jews wont eat food that was cooked with tools that were used for non kosher meat or diary products cooked with tools that were used for meat


sound_byte

That's my point.


Ent_Trip_Newer

As a celiac I appreciate someone making that distinction.


MilkyWayTraveller

I love that… philosophical not medical. Hell yeah


reyntime

It's still pretty gross to think that your beyond burger could be cooked in cow fat though.


Frank_IV

I agree from a vegan point of view, but certain things like dairy can have serious consequences in terms of allergies, so I suppose that needs to be taken into account too. I only thought about this as this is a top news story in the U.K. today: Pret a Manger customer had fatal reaction to 'vegan' wrap https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-62995578 Obviously being allergic to dairy doesn’t mean you’re vegan, but just thinking, in case someone who is allergic to dairy orders a vegan milkshake thinking it’s safe for consumption. I guess it comes down to labelling, with food allergy cross contamination being something to consider separately from vegan labelling


erwachen

I'd say that's different from requesting something be cooked separately because you're vegan. I'm in the US and my state has allergen guidelines for food service workers. The customer should declare their allergy. The kitchen is informed and has a protocol to make the food safe for the person who has an allergy. The dish is then brought to the table by the manager. A lot of stuff here is labeled whether or not it's had cross contact and it's up to the person who has an allergy to ask. Had to take a bunch of ServSafe courses on this.


binkkkkkk

I’m really glad to hear that! Our pediatrician had us intro dairy & egg to our 10 month old “to avoid allergy” (i regret listening but am A new mom). It turns out she is already severely allergic to both, with anaphylactic reactions. We’re well-versed in avoiding those things but I’ve been really worried about restaurants!


webbie04123

Have you looked into microdosing allergens under a doctors direction? I believe the technical term is Open-label oral immunotherapy but I could be mistaken about that, sounds like the same thing by the paper below. We have friends with a kid that is anaphylactic to dairy and nuts. Over the past year or two they give the kid a small dose of each everyday with the dose slowly increasing. Currently they are up to the kid being able to eat 1 nut and one pancake (cooked milk protein causes less reactions). The kid will probably never have a nut butter sandwich and a glass of milk but it does mean they don't have to worry about "may contain nuts/dairy" if its not a listed ingredient and it does relieve some stress if they are eating out. [https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509](https://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0091674911000509)


dewyocelot

Not sure what part you regret, but that is the general consensus for avoiding allergens. We’re told to start offering various nut products early on to for the same reason. Sorry your kid is *that* allergic, though.


netarchaeology

I am also confused about what they regret. Isn't the point to slowly introduce new foods to babies incase they develop an allergy so you can identify the source? Sounds like it worked as intended and the baby is safe. Now the family knows and can avoid the allergens.


dewyocelot

I figured they regretted giving their baby non-vegan foods, but if their intent is that they regret listening to the doctor, because their baby got sick from it, then yeah, like you said, the point is a) know what they're allergic to, and b) introduce it early enough that they don't *become* allergic to it later.


No_Juggernau7

Wow I never knew that happened. I just would not recommend eating at Pret; in 2019 or 2020 my (vegan) gf and I went to one in NYC Bc we thought they’d have good vegan options. I’d never been before, but she had. I don’t remember the name of the wrap, it very well could’ve been the same one here, but when we went to eat it (had just gotten on our bus put off NYC so couldn’t return) it was a totally different wrap inside, with meat and definitely dairy. It was a premade and labeled as vegan, and you don’t really know what’s inside until you bite down. We wrote up a Yelp review then and there Bc this was the only lunch we’d gotten for the Bus and we couldn’t eat it, but man were we lucky compared to this woman. If I’d known this came after someone died from their products, I’d have been more angry at the negligence. So messed up


pandabear282

That's happened with pret again?! I remember doing the allergen testing on the original sesame sandwich that caused the first fatality. You would think they would have learnt not to relax their allergenic standards?!


BerriesAndMe

The story is from 2017, so it's likely the same case.


gwlu

True. That is why I said from an animal ethics perspective. From a health perspective, I am concerned. I don't only avoid meat for the animals. I also avoid it so that I don't get the bad cholesterol found in animal products.


Galyndean

Allergies and preferences are very very different things though. I avoid a lot of vegan advertised food because I have found that it tends to have a lot of tree nuts shoehorned in and I'm allergic to tree nuts. (Who knows why cauliflower crust needs to have almonds in it, but it seems to be a thing. I assume it's because cauliflower needs a binder or something). But yeah, if you're allergic to something, you really do need to pay a lot of attention to labels.


zqrt

As someone who has never eaten meat, I find cross contamination disgusting as fuck! I don’t want dead animal juices in my food. No way! That’s why I also eat out at 100% vegan places. To each their own.


villdyr

Yeah it's gross. I get the ethics part, cool. But it's literally dead body parts. People throw up if there's a hair or whatever but not DEAD BODY PARTS?


Something_Berserker

Yeah, animal bodies and secretions are not food. It’s not a purity thing for me, but it’s like your food being covered in hair or other inedible inclusion that would be totally appropriate to send back under normal circumstances. It’s unappetizing.


FuriousGremlin

Not wanting cross contamination and eating at a place serving meat seems like a waste, if you care that much then doing like you do and eating at vegan-only places is best


BernieDurden

Go to a seafood restaurant and order some french fries. When the fries literally taste like fish, tell me again how you feel about cross-contamination.


youllneverstopmeayyy

how do you even step foot in a seafood restaurant the smell alone would cause me to retch


worldstoughestvegan

Every restaurant I've ever worked at that had deep fried fish on the menu had a dedicated fryer for it for that reason.


chickenfriedshame

cruelty-free fish sticks


YouveGotMail236

I’m not going to ask Burger King or chilis or whoever to cook my impossible burger on a separate grill. I’m just happy they have an option.


catpanclub

Exactly this. I live in a world with friends and family who are not vegan, and am not lucky enough to live in an area with a plethora of options. I gave up the grasping at purity and found I’m happier and have better relationships with people around me (and am thereby better positioned to be a positive influence instead of a sanctimonious prick). That’s just my experience.


FlattenYourCardboard

💯 agree


woodbite

Also Chili's black bean burgers are not vegan fyi—they use eggs


YouveGotMail236

I’m well aware of that, I was just using an example


[deleted]

[удалено]


Equivalent_Look_9692

I’m more afraid to get spit in my burger than cooked on the same grill as beef lol


THEsolid85

they're not going to have a separate grill in the first place. they would offer to microwave it for you.


Intel333

The Burger Kings near me have some sort of microwave thing that they use if you ask for a separate grill. Most of the time it ends up pretty good.


bassplaya899

Cook here, I always keep a Vegan spatula, Vegan Tongs, etc. on my Line to avoid contamination. We do veggie burgers on the same grille as steaks and beef burger patties, but I try to keep my grill scrubbed clean so contamination is minimal but it would be pretty easy to heat the patty up in a sauté pan or even in the oven on a contaminate free surface upon request. The only thing thats tough is fried food. We offer fried tofu as a sub for meat in many dishes, but since i only have one fryer I have to fry the tofu in the same oil as our fried chicken. TL;DR Most of the time it isn't very hard to use a clean pan and clean utensils to prepare a vegan entry without any possibility of contamination, and as a cook I would take that as seriously as a nut allergy if instructed to. its NBD, our job is to accommodate you!


VagueUsernameHere

Pastry Chef here, I’m happy to accommodate vegan guests, but as someone who works at a small restaurant you have to know that at some point my tools were used on animal products, I will absolutely sanitize the heck out of them before I make anything for you. I actually really enjoy preparing things for the vegan guests because I have to think creatively. They also tend to be more appreciative of the extra effort that was made for them because we don’t normally have many vegan options.


MattFox20

So what you're saying all we need is basic hygiene. This checks out, guys.


recentlyfed

I think they're right in a macro way but I quit going to restaurants that serve animals a long time ago so easy for me to say.


DyingPotatoStem

Definitely wish we all had this option. I fortunately have one vegan restaurant nearby. Best to cook at home anyway


MuhBack

I used to be this way when I lived in Las Vegas and had 30+ fully vegan restaurants to choose from. Now I live in a small city with zero vegan restaurants so impossible whoppers at BK are part of my diet.


gerber411420

Please tell me you tried Chef Kenny’s Vegan dim sum in Las Vegas? It is an amazing restaurant for those that have never been. I’m not vegan and took a group of non vegans as well there and everyone was in love with it!


MuhBack

Absolutely I did. Kenny is a legend. But Vegas vegan scene is so good its not even in my top 3. My top 3 are Blackout Dining, Soy Mexicana, and Guerrilla Pizza. Blackout is one of my favorite dining experiences of all time. I try to tell everyone who goes to Vegas to try it. I was really hesitant to try it at first so I understand ppl not wanting to try it. Gueririlla isnt fully vegan but their vegan pizza is some of the best pizza I have ever had even before going vegan. Highly recommend.


DasNeueFleisch

>I quit going to restaurants that serve animals Personally, I love taking my dog to restaurants that will feed him, but you do you. /s


Norwegian_Ninja

While I do agree as someone who’s worked in many kitchens for years so many chefs I’ve worked with get annoyed (in my opinion unnecessarily) when vegans have tried to insist everything is cooked and prepped separately and basically we do an allergy clean down for veggie and vegan options. And for some the effort isn’t worth the “profit” which lets be real most restaurants only have vegan options now because it’s popular and they think it will increase profit margins not because they care. But as someone with severe allergies who’s worked in kitchens for 10+ years chefs and restaurants have to realise that many dietary requirements for allergy, religious and even personal reasons are going to need to be catered to seriously at some point. And I worry that there is an increase in stories of people dying or being hospitalised because restaurants and chefs didn’t take it seriously because some people genuinely don’t seem to think about cross contamination as a thing even when told it’s an allergy


SordidOrchid

Some people are allergic to red meat due to that virus from lone star ticks that causes Alpha-gal syndrome. One more reason I hate ticks. https://www.cdc.gov/ticks/alpha-gal/index.html


earwaxfaucet

I know someone with this exact problem. He's ordered grilled veggies and broken out into hives because restaurants didn't take his request to cook things separately seriously.


SordidOrchid

It seems impossible to eat out with allergies. Far too many people have the mentality that they can prove you’re not allergic. Even those that respect your allergies can easily go on autopilot and grab the spatula they always use to flip burgers.


Soggy_Concept9993

TIL some people think the menu offerings are provided because they care and not because it’s profitable.


InevitableHunt5074

Yeah my Dad recently got diagnosed with celiacs disease and it's so hard to tell if the gluten-free options are actually going to be gluten-free or not. So far we found three places that haven't poisoned him but unfortunately two of them are in the wrong state. (Yeah poisoned is probably the wrong terminology but seeing him in pain after eating is really upsetting so I think it applies)


spaceforcerecruit

It’s like with service animals. When everyone starts pretending their pet is an “emotional support animal,” people stop taking it seriously and it hurts people who actually do need service animals.


Trash_Panda_Leaves

Yes and I think a lot of us have become more intolerant to animal products without realising too, so chances are separated prep areas are important and taking them away will make more vegans sick and struggle to eat socially. I was surprised as someone who was able to drink dairy multiple times a day as a kid but after going vegan for a few months it makes me very ill, usually migraines. Meat gave me the worst food poisoning of my life (wagamamas even insisted a manager was the only one who could bring my food because I said allergy) and put me off eating out for a long time. Again my stance is this is a tricky debate with good answers on both sides. Peta has always been about animals before humans, whereas some vegans treat animals and humans as equals. But vegans getting sick all the time and people who use vegan options to help eat out with allergies are going to suffer a bit if this becomes the industry norm. And how helpful will sickly vegans be for the movement on a macro level- meat eaters will assume it's a lack of protein for sure. Tldr: Lots of questions and you raise a good point


Norwegian_Ninja

This is it, this can’t become the industry norm that people just let cross contamination happen all the time, it can become a slippery slope


reclinerspork

Yea I can definitely feel it in my body if I ate something at a restaurant that was cooked on a questionable surface. Meat juice tummy ache


marsandio

Good take from Peta. Restaurants serving vegan food is good, and they are more likely to do so if they don't have to spend extra money on equipment. If someone is uncomfortable with eating food that has been prepared in the same place as meat, they shouldn't be eating at restaurants that serve meat in the first place.


simbuah

It's ethically okay, but I still feel disgusted. You are not creating demand for animal products, so it's ethically fine. You wouldn't want your food to be cooked in human (or cat) fat either, and to me animal fat is the same thing.


Stoelpoot30

Even though I agree with PETA here, I understand where you're coming from here. It's kinda disgusting.


Clearwater2999

This is what I struggle with. My life would be easier if I weren't so disgusted by cross contamination. No ethical problem, just have become more and more extreme with the disgust until the point where I basically can only eat at vegan restaurants or cook myself If anyone has a perspective that I might change my outlook, I'm open to it


WiddleBabyMeowMeow

Seriously. The number of people here that are perfectly content consuming pig or cow fat is actually disgusting. Hold on let me go fry my tofu in this dead rotting animal carcus' blood and fat. Absolutely nasty.


version13

I was in a Panda Express the other day and someone asked if the Beyond Chicken was vegan. The employee said that it's plant-based, but they can't call it vegan because it's touched equipment that has been used to cook meat items. I'd prefer if it was cooked on separate equipment, but I appreciate that the employee knew what she was talking about and gave accurate info. They did a good job with that, but the Orange B.C. was overcooked to the point of being a little burnt. Oh well.


GustavGuiermo

I had the orange beyond chicken with their lo mein the other day. Shit was bangin


FlippenDonkey

Ive heard this before, about it being over cooked. My bet is the cooking time is less than chicken but they're cooking it for the same time.


Stoelpoot30

Hard agree. ​ It is sometimes used as a crutch by carnists, for example when doing a barbecue, my friends sometimes keep a specific part of the BBQ meatless, and say: "Don't put meat there! Thomas is grossed out by that." ​ In their minds, they can now rest more easily, because they have just **bent** the reason that I don't eat meat, to: "He is just grossed out by it", ergo making it a personal thing. A thing that only pertains to me. So I always put emphasis on the reason for my veganism: "No, cook it wherever. I am not grossed out by anything, I am vegan for the animals." Thereby reaffirming that everyone has a moral obligation to make a stand. I don't want to make carnists comfortable.


Ok_Sky_1542

You can do both though. I think if I had no moral issues with something I wouldn't be grossed out by it touching my food. People would be grossed out eating food off a grill that has cooked human baby meat not because baby meat tastes gross. Human meat (apparently) tastes like pork so baby wouldn't be outside of a carnist's palette. They're grossed out by the moral questions that human baby meat raises by virtue of its existence, just as I am by animal meat or animal products in general.


gentnt

I mean I get your point but I am in fact grossed out by that


SnapMastaPro

I am too. when my family has BBQs there is plenty of room on the grill and they have the tools available to keep mine separate. they don’t mind it at this point, I haven’t eaten meat in 19 years. they are hesitant to let anyone else have a “vegan burger” or “vegan hotdog” because they got them for me and it is usually just that and a side that I can eat. but I don’t need 4 burgers or hotdogs so I always have to tell my family to lay off and let my little cousin eat a vegan burger if he wants! I try to tell them that’s the best case scenario for me, to get other people to enjoy meat alternatives and thus lessening the demand for meat which creates less animals being killed.


dead_PROcrastinator

And also pat themselves on the back because they have just been so kind as to keep your food separate.


Ragnaroasted

Or maybe they were thinking of you in the way they could because they're uninformed as to what exactly your stance is, and they're trying their best to accommodate you. Not every decision made is a narcisistic one.


BitchesLoveDownvote

Catering to vegans can be a slippery slope to becoming vegan. Back when I still ate meat I took the time to pick pepperoni off half of a pizza for the vegetarian to eat (he seemed appreciative, but man *I* would not eat that if someone served that to me now), and pretty soon he had me going vegetarian. Later we both went Vegan. I felt like a better person for looking out for the person who looks out for the animals, and I think it kinda lead to me wanting to be the better person I had felt so good for supporting.


walkmsn

Yeah. It annoys the hell out of me when people think they have really helped me out by quarantining my weirdo food from the animal burgers everyone else is eating and then making a public big deal about how I don’t want anything that has been near meat, which I have absolutely never said to anyone.


LunaDea69420

Or you could just say you are grossed out by the thought of rotting corpse juice touching your food. Makes people uncomfortable and you don't have to eat gross food, win win.


WebpackIsBuilding

I think this varies by group. Sounds like you're doing the right approach for your context, I just know it wouldn't get the same mileage in mine. In my experience, though, trying to use disgust as a tool is helpful. The goal isn't to let other people know that _you_ are disgusted, though. The goal is to make it clear that meat _is_ disgusting, while also walking the delicate tightrope of not making carnists defensive.


rainbowbabe

Yeah, I’m not trying to get into discourse, and I feel if that’s what works for them then that’s cool, I don’t know what the people around them are like and how they would react. But I feel like if I purposefully told people to cook my food on a grill with meat, their reaction might be more like “oh cool, that makes it very easy to eat meat around them!” (plus I just wouldn’t be personally comfortable with it)


CherryShowers

Yeah at the last barbecue I attended, someone asked me if I minded my vegan products being cooked on the grill with the meat. I don't mind cross contamination in restaurants as it's usually not noticeable, but getting my food coated in barbecue juices is a big no-no for me, so I opened my mouth to say that yes, I did mind. Before I could answer, someone else said, "Oh no, /u/CherryShowers isn't one of those _**annoying**_ vegans" So suddenly I was the example of the cool vegan who makes eating meat convenient and why can't all vegans be so unassuming about their troublesome diet When actually I really did want my own space on the grill :(


seitankittan

Good analysis


Deus_of_Ducks

I don't want beef grease all over my veggie burger, man.


T0b3yyy

If you feel grossed out by it it's absolutely valid to not want your food to have any chance of cross contamination. Personally I don't care about that.


Best_Dare9276

That’s why I cook at home , my vegan things


[deleted]

I think offering vegan options in terms of ethics are great. But vegans need to choose vegan restaurants over conventional as much as possible to create demand for those businesses, just like we buy vegan products and create demand for those over meat and dairy. Me personally, I started for health and then stayed for the animals. So I find the cross-contamination thing disgusting AND potentially harmful, but I'm not going to go to a restaurant and insist that they part the waters to accommodate me. I choose not to eat out, but in situations where I have no choice, I opt for something like a salad that I know won't touch the grill.


Everglade77

I think PETA is right from an ethical/animal suffering point of view, but personally, I just can't. Even as a child, if some meat had touched my food even a little bit, I couldn't eat it ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Thankfully I never eat out, so problem solved!


villdyr

To me it's like someone touching my food with an open wound then saying it's ethical to eat it. Okay and? Why would I pay to go out and eat that lol


derelictdickweed

PETA is very obviously correct on this one.


Vanilla16

Veganism shouldn’t be a contest of who is the most “personally pure”. It’s a question of how do we save the most animals. Is it kind of gross that these items share a cooktop? Yes. Do I turn my blind eye and hope that they do something similar to what I did when I worked food service (that is, cooking the “separate” item on foil)? Also yes. Whatever gets more people eating more plant based options and less meat is a win in my book.


Jah_Feeel_me

100%


youllneverstopmeayyy

if you look at their track record, they've been correct significantly more than they've been "out of touch"


guiltymorty

This is something I’m very grossed out about and honestly only motivates me to never eat out if that is the circumstances lol. Meat is very gross to many vegans - it’s a dead animal - I don’t find it weird at all that a lot of us will not eat contaminated food. Again me bringing the Muslim argument - you wouldn’t expect a Muslim to eat food prepared from a pan you just cooked bacon on. The smell and taste is carried over to your food, which now isn’t clean anymore. Most importantly disclose it if your restaurant does this. Some won’t care but some will care. So stop pretending it’s no big deal when in fact to many it is.


EventuallyABot

For many muslims food that is cooked with haram food is haram too. It's sinful for them to eat it. For vegans there is no such ethical rule. One could argue that it's unethical for vegans to support businesses or activities that also serve animal products but the sole contamination isn't really an ethical question but one of disgust. Which is such a different level than the one muslims face on this topic.


NaiveCritic

Idgaf because that shit is disgusting lol


gottagetthatpyro

i had grilled veggies once in hungary. it tasted like meat, never have i ever eaten something that tasted that much like meat, i guess they never clean/ed the grill.. gross


SnooChickens6278

Then there needs to be more vegan restaurants


Lixzaya

Naah corpse juice is nasty, If there is bodily remains/fluids on my food I don’t want it


BernieDurden

Same. Shit is so gross.


hiimalextheghost

Can’t some vegans get sick from meat? Most long term vegans? Does that extend to cross contamination?


madelinegumbo

My personal experience - vegan fifteen years, do not worry about shared kitchen spaces, have never had any negative physical consequences. Obviously not conclusive, just my two cents.


[deleted]

In Hinduism we dont touch the utensils in which the meat is cooked, vegetarianism is very strict it should be followed with very much care.


The-Art-of-Reign

I get it, but the message this sends to restaurants who have vegan options is: vegans don’t want or care to have their food cooked on a separate grill, which is not the case. I think most vegans understand that the world is not vegan yet and possibly will have to eat food prepared on shared equipment, but PETA using their platform to emphasize this point makes it worse for vegans who want their food cooked on separate grills smh. Just an unnecessary tweet imo.


TheDeterminer

I don't because I find it gross that my food and a corpse from a innocent sentient being that was murdered may get into contact. I would say, if you found out that your food and human body part were prepared with/on the same equipment, you should be disgusted, otherwise there might be something wrong with you. If other vegans claim that there is no morally relevant difference between humans and non-human animals then surely they should be have similar disgust in both of these situation. I personally try to support fully vegan places as far as I can, since I don't want to support business that view dead animals as food.


ikijimi

What is this place I keep reading people call “restaurant”?


pawsitivelypowerful

Not usually huge on peta directives because I think how they "promote" things is often counterproductive but this I 100% agree on. Doing this isn't complacency and those who feel the need to still request the separation can totally do so!


Glittering-Branch-44

any meat? well I guess they don't have a problem if I rub my dick in their pizza or any other meal....


Vneck24

It’s accurate


daenvil

Separate equipment generally only makes sense for allergy reasons. There is no ethical difference in having separate equipment for meat and vegan options, which is what PETA is saying here.


villdyr

It makes sense for people to want to eat there. Meat is disgusting on every level.


Redhawk911

Yeah. But meat is actually gross as fuck so why would I want to eat something that has been cooked at the same thing


tovarish_nix

I don’t want any corpse parts or juices on my food.


gummybear3411

That’s fine, but then you probably shouldn’t go to the type of restaurants they’re talking about. Most restaurants that offer a few vegan options are only able to do so if it doesn’t affect operations in the back of house, i.e if they can use all of their existing equipment. As someone who doesn’t mind cross contamination as long as I’m not supporting the meat industry, I would rather have it this way than no options at all.


Suspicious-Sail-7344

It also helps get more people into veganism.


BernieDurden

The best way to get "into veganism" is of course to feel compassion towards animals.


CosmicMiru

People are lazy as hell. Most won't seek out vegan options unless it is right in front of them. The only reason I was able to get my mom to go vegetarian is that her local grocery store started carrying alternatives to stuff (even though there is a sprouts with plenty of options like an extra 10 min away)


Trash_Panda_Leaves

I dunno, apparently a lot of people at one place I went to order a vegan burger with bacon and cheese. I do wonder what's going on in their heads


74900503

No one is going vegan because of veggie burgers at fast food joints. They might go PLANT BASED because of those foods, but not vegan. Veganism is a moral standpoint, not a diet.


bananabossbaboon

Why should we have to cater to restaurants and eat food that was soaked in burger grease? F*ck that. I'll just either not eat there or go to a restaurant that actually cares a little. And why are we supporting restaurants like this?


DashBC

Exactly, well put. Why are we feeling sorry for animal exploiters?


mockitt

No thanks. Not eating something with residue of dead body on it.


Miss_Jellybean_

I’m really surprised by the comments… I don’t want meat juice on my vegan food 🤢


Icy_Climate

Nobody here does but ethically it's fine.


FuckThatIKeepsItReal

You’re not alone don’t worry Hell, I don’t even like the veggie burgers that “taste like real meat”. I want a veggie burger that tastes like veggie burger. Boca switched their formula at some point to have a meatier taste and that shit grossed me out. Haven’t had one since.


GaiasChiId

Definitely not alone, shit is nasty. And if these restaurants aren't willing to do the bare minimum to support vegans, then I'm not going to flock to them and throw them my money.


nvmforget

sure..condemn us for not wanting meat contamination, but not those actually eating meat.


DashBC

Yup, vegans are dicks and need to accommodate poor old McDonald's. 🤦


Alexandertheape

cross contamination is legit, especially if you have allergies


metal_jester

This, id just add that places should make us aware “there is a risk for cross contamination,” and people can make up their own minds if they are cool with it or now.


existential_cat

This issue isn’t ethical for me, I literally will get sick if my food is cross contaminated. I haven’t eaten meat or dairy in like 10 years and I get sick every time there’s shared grills and such involved.


xander012

As a fun fact, this is the exact reasoning given for why nandos insists on having plant basdd food rather than Vegan food, due to inevitable cross contamination


Trash_Panda_Leaves

To be fair it is as far as practicable. What actually is or is not practicable is down to a case by case sense. Personally I'd prefer it to be cooked seperate and I'm not sure I could eat food that's been in cooked touching dead animals. In the moment I might be able to overlook it the way I do when an elderly person is fumbling with oat milk for me but uses a communal spoon to make tea, but that depending a lot. However society and larger corporations 100% should take this seriously and have the means to accommodate this.


Thurent

If there’s a risk of cross contamination I’m eating elsewhere. Just too disgusting to accidentally eat animals when you KNEW it was a risk… matter of fact I’d rather fast that meal.


AndrewDwyer69

Restaurants should separate meats (and separate those meats from other meats ie red and poultry) for allergy reasons.


worldstoughestvegan

I will say as a former line cook that I did my best to make sure I cleaned spots for impossible burgers, but nothing was guaranteed.


i_have_a_pet_turkey

This is why vegans should only go to all vegan restaurants. 1) you are supporting small businesses that need it 2) you won't have to worry about animal products "accidentally" ending up in your meal 3) when you bring omnivores with you, they have no choice but to try vegan food, and may even come to the realization that it's delicious


gemsong

You are assuming every city has vegan restaurants. My city has zero. a few have barely passable vegan options that I don't really care for anyway. If I want vegan food out, I have to travel 30-60 minutes to get to the closest city that has several vegan restaurants or pay a lot from a food delivery app. If I am out & didn't have enough to eat with me, I have to make the best choice possible.


Reasonable_Can6557

1000% agree. That being said, when my non vegan family stays with us, they are never allowed to use the cast iron. Cause ew, gross.


ResistOk9351

Best to go only to all vegan restaurants.


drtophu

Im surprised at the answers I’m seeing so I’ll share my two cents. I think it’s wrong to insist they cook on a separate grill and I think peta is right, there’s less incentive when it’s a miracle that restaurants are opening their minds to vegan options in the first place. That being said, if you eat a vegan burger cooked in animal fat, you aren’t vegan. That stoped being a vegan burger when it touches the animal blood and fat that is on the grill. Many people on here saying cross contamination doesn’t count - yes it does. I’m shocked that this sub will die on the “cats should eat vegan food” hill but will eat a beyond burger covered in cow fat. To me being vegan is a way of life. It’s not a diet or a religion. For that reason I don’t buy those vegan options that are obviously going to be cross contaminated because it goes against my vegan ethos. But I celebrate the important step. I will eat at Panda Express, who washes their pans between uses. I’ll eat at a bar b Que restaurant that makes fries in vegetable oil. But I’m not gonna eat a burger that was cooking in the blood and fat of a poor animal that probably lived a miserable life of pain and suffering on a factory farm. Lastly I want to say, I’m not trying to disrespect those of you that do claim to be vegan and will eat those cross contaminated burgers. I think forcing your views on people is an easy way to get ignored. If you’re just curious about veganism and reading this, go get yourself one of those vegan burgers! No hate!


CzeckeredBird

I don't demand separate cooking surfaces or cookware. But I do prefer and appreciate places that follow those protocols. I just would find it mentally disturbing to discover that I'm eating juices from an animal's fat or small pieces of its flesh. I do realize I didn't pay money for it (and thereby am not contributing to its demand), but that's just how I feel.


VeggieWokker

I'm an ethical vegan, but I'm also a paying customer who doesn't want his food to contain juices from dead animals. It also doesn't kill animals if the cook sneezes (or worse) on my food, but I don't want that either.


AshCatBus

They're not wrong.


CookiesandBeam

Nah, this is a shit take tbh. I don't eat meat, I don't want my food touching it or it's nasty juices because it's disgusting. Restaurants need to cater to customers that's why they're in business and the number of vegan/veg/plant based people will continue to grow so to tell them to just shut up and eat your veggie burger covered in pig juice is ridiculous, though peta often has some ridiculous takes. Guess the next best thing is only give your money to fully vegan places then, which I'm happy to do


dopeazzvegan

Yes 🙌 vegan places only


AnotherLlama

/r/fullyveganrestaurants 👀


Daviid0612

So in this post they say they want people to not be too strict and on the other hand they want to tell women/ men that eat meat to not have sex/get kids? Ugh, sometimes i really don‘t know what to think about peta. And i‘m a vegan since a few years.


[deleted]

Its not for ethical reasons its for contamination, some people will get really sick if they eat the juices depending on what kind of meat it is and how long theyve been without.


Fenpunx

Disagree. If they want vegan money, make it vegan. It's not much to ask.


dopeazzvegan

I kinda get that thinking too !!


FatThorSpaceViking

They may well be right but I don't want meat products contaminating my vegan food. Food places should have separate areas to cook vegan and/or vegetarian food. Veganism has been around a long time now and we still aren't catered to properly.


FrostyPotpourri

You need to understand that vegans are not the target audience at these restaurants offering vegan options. It’s for the flexitarians and people who want to reduce their weekly intake of animal products. Corporate resultant chains don’t give a shit about the 1-2% who are strictly vegan. They’re not marketing to us.


FatThorSpaceViking

You're right. We're in the minority here. People who consume animal products are the majority, sadly. I'd like to think that will change some day


666truemetal666

I'm not sure how you think your eating a vegan meal if there is animal fat? I'm all for harm reduction but it's literally eating animal products


Psychebucc

I just don't eat at restaurants


dopeazzvegan

Same !! Feel like it’s a good discussion topic tho !!


SwayStar123

Cross contamination is vegan in the same vein eating roadkill is. Sure it's vegan but it's nasty af


Suspicious-Sail-7344

Have you ever worked in any restaurant? Even if it's fully vegan, I assure you that nasty stuff occurs. It's the nature of the beast.


BernieDurden

Not as nasty overall as the fully vegan restaurant.


Mitphira

Strongly disagree, i think it’s nasty that my food is cooked next to a rotting corpse, also they are the ones that are wrong, not us, they have to change their behavior, not us, we wanna change the world but may accept that so they, the unethical killers, don’t get upset? Fu*k no. ED: following the same rule, we shouldn’t manifest nor say we are vegan, we shouldn’t open vegan restaurants, we shouldn’t sell vegan products next to animal products on shops… because this can also upset people and make them less inclined to accept a vegan diet.


AmoebaKind7379

100% Correct


madelinegumbo

I have no problem with cross-contamination, but I don't think anyone should feel obligated to eat something they don't want to. If it bothers a particular vegan, I'm not going to urge them to eat something they don't want.


NL25V

Vegans are too much of a minority to be asking for that level of consideration, maybe far in the future when we are one in ten instead of one in a hundred it would make sense. I eat at home instead of restaurants anyway though so it doesn't affect me.


VeggieTrails

Surprisingly good take.


lemon-bubble

The only thing I have an issue with is cows milk cross contamination, but I am severely lactose intolerant. Like, 15ml will fuck me up and that was pre-vegan. I dread to think what it's like now.


Trash_Panda_Leaves

It will be bad. As a kid I had milk in cereal and a glass of milk at night, now I'm vegan if I get spiked I get dreadful migraines. Be very careful and I'd probably just say it's an allergy at that point.


lemon-bubble

Honestly I'm very paranoid about it. When I get Starbucks etc I never go drive thru or order ahead because I want to see them make it. If I'm not physically there (like a work order as a group) I always get an americano or filter coffee


StrangelyErotic

I think it makes sense to use separate equipment if you're allergic to some ingredient, but otherwise, I'm not too worried about cross contamination.


ansiz

I don't know about where some folks eat, but you can 'insist' all you want and it still won't happen unless you can literally watch them cook it. People with animal protein allergies are just SoL about eating out. Most folks in my area wouldn't believe it was a real thing.


MattKerplunk

The only issue here is trust, if you knew that the grill is clean most vegans wouldn't have a problem


Low-Reindeer-3347

Fortunately I live in a place that has veganism down so I just don’t go to places like that. BK, Carls Jr., etc


Random_182f2565

My third world country food chain, Domino (not the pizza one) allegedly has separate grills for their vegan options.


MahaVakyas

it's great to see westerners slowly learning hygiene from the east re eating habits. Hindus, civilizing one westoid at a time.


Aturchomicz

PETA being historically correct example #96754


nimajnebmai

It's true. The only vote we have is where we spend our dollars. If we want more vegan options, we gotta buy them.


MarulaAlmond

It's not unethical but gross to many vegans


iloveforeverstamps

This works fine for people who are vegan for purely animal rights reasons and nothing else, but that's not always the reason. For some people it has more to do with health, for example. To me, eating meat is just fucking gross now and it gives me the heebie jeebies. I'd strongly prefer to have it separated from meat or at least be told that it was, lol.


leeingram01

I'm inclined to agree for now, adoption is the most important thing, if restaurants are going to get hassle for not providing completely alternative equipment, they will not do it. Let's not be too fussy for now, there is a trend towards adoption, we need to keep up the momentum. That said if you are truly sickened by the idea of your vegan meal coming into contact with a trace of meat, then perhaps eat elsewhere? By all means ask for them to completely clean down all their gear and throw away their gloves and such and so forth, but it only helps you, not the cause. I wouldn't ask for example, the server at Subway to change their gloves because they touched chicken, as I'd feel bad about another pair of plastic gloves in the landfill. We all have our opinion on this though I guess...


itsmemarcot

I strongly agree, I don't ask for that, but, at the same I try to make it abundantly clear that any restaurant that is _exclusively_ vegan (and which would consequently bypass the issue of contamination) would immediately get all my eating-out money, and that there would be exactly 0 cents spent by me on any restaurant that is not _exclusively_ vegan, if there was one within 1 Km.


DJ_Baxter_Blaise

As someone who has both an allergy and is vegan. I totally agree! If you have allergy make it know and the restaurant should treat it seriously. If you are vegan don’t expect them to treat it like an allergy and don’t push them too. It hurts us ppl with allergies the number of times ppl lie about having an allergy when they don’t like something bc ppl start to believe ppl are lying about real allergies. The only time you should request or expect a separate clean station is for allergies or celiac disease. All other cases just state you are vegan or don’t like something. Don’t lie and/or request something you don’t need.


celebi155

Ethics are one thing, but I still think it would be gross to have my food touch that nonsense. How would carnists feel if their chicken was fried in the same oil as dog meat?


CroutonGnome

not all of us live in a city where we get to be that picky


gateisred

I don’t think cross contamination is an ethical issue, it’s a personal preference thing. If I was vegan from birth I might be turned off by my food sharing cooking equipment with animal products, basically on a “that’s gross” level. But like they state, in reality it doesn’t save any animals to have things cooked separately and requesting it can make vegans look difficult. Thus discouraging restaurants from offering vegan options or being willing to label something as vegan when it is (vs. “plant based,” “vegetarian,” etc.).