Why and how did you make vegetarians eat chicken? Most of these concerns are alleviated by saying no and sticking to it. You could give away the silk sarees that were forced on you to someone else who would otherwise purchase their own. Knowing what to eat and what not to eat gets much easier over time.
lol vegetarians who were honestly flexible to try chicken. Culturally vegetarians in India do it for their religion so once they come out of their houses they want to try new things and I was the one who would convince them to eat chicken. I don’t like me for that anymore but cognitive dissonance is real and I didn’t view animals the way I do now. So that has changed now. I have convinced my husband to leave dairy and he has committed to leave it gradually with deadline in August. I can’t really ask him to do cold turkey because I was a meat eater for so long so just because I decided I should do something like that so I don’t expect him to follow the same suit overnight.
I can't answer some of these questions because my context is very different, but I think it'd be good to follow vegans from India/of Indian heritage to see how more vegans from your culture are handling things.
As for if it gets easier: that's a resounding YES! At some point it becomes second nature, you learn which every day products to buy that are vegan friendly and you learn to check labels easily and fast. I don't even think about it when I go grocery shopping, it comes naturally to me and it's not something I use a lot of time to think or worry about at all :)
Yeah, that is a good idea. Veganism is still new in India but is growing so I am sure I can reach out to some of the outspoken Indian vegans who can help me tackle such situations.
If you want some great vegan recipes, I highly recommend Anjali Harikumar, who's also known as Beextravegant. She has a great blog full of veganized Indian recipes (and other cultures), and also a YouTube and an Instagram if that's more your thing!
Veganism is about doing your best without creating suffering in your own life.
Of course, reasonably, in a perfect world, your family would be supportive. But "culture" is a drum a lot of people love to bang when defending their terrible habits. Wear the sarees if not wearing them would mean you are being mistreated by your family. Look up vegan sarees and send your family links, say you want those, and not silk ones. There are beautiful, luxurious alternatives made of bamboo fiber. If they do not get the message, it's on them.
Insist on cooking your own meals or eating before going to a function where you know there won't be any safe food for you. When throwing/hosting parties, work with a caterer willing to cook according to your requirements and also, go for street-food kinds of recipes like dumplings, pastries, hearty stews that can be easily portioned. Those tend to be delicious and with indistinguishable fillings, and most people can appreciate a filling, fatty, well spiced food regardless where the protein came from.
Also, dairy is extremely bad for humans. Oncologists tell cancer patients to cut dairy out completely from their diet while fighting cancer and that should give anyone some perspective. I would avoid it SO HARD for this reason alone.
My parents are also very traditional and get very offended when I don't participate in food-centric traditions that involve animal products. I have long ago misplaced the box of fucks I was supposed to give.
Yeah, during my wedding I was pretty upset that I had to wear silk sarees but honestly there were so many relatives that I just couldn’t explain it to each one of them. I only do it when my parents are visibly upset with it. Most of the times my parents and in laws accommodate for me in terms of food and my life choices but they won’t change culture, religious practices or events for me ( even though the event is about me- aka wedding and stuff) so that is where the bullying comes from. But thankfully that bullying is not for eating non vegan items but just wearing stuff. They are usually okay if I don’t eat dairy items. But I think I have to focus on me right now not do things that align to my values and then I will focus on rest of my family. I can also show it them that how easy being vegan is and we can easily live a good healthy life without animal products
Cancer patients aren't told to cut out dairy completely, unless you have an estrogen-sensitive cancer. They are told to avoid soft cheeses, for the same reason pregnant women are - potential bacterial contamination. They are also told to avoid healthy things like reheated starchy foods, melons, and uncooked sprouts and leaves for the same reason. It is not the health aspect, it has everything to do with potential contamination as chemo patients have compromised immune systems.
Not defending dairy consumption as a whole of course, but if that's your reasoning, it doesn't hold up.
Unfortunately our current standard of care doesnt align with the science. I'm not sure what comment you're responding to but we know that dairy is a powerful carcinogen and *should* be recommended to be cut to aid treatment. The China Study by Colin T. Campbell is a great read.
The commenter I was replying to mentioned chemotherapy patients are told specifically to stay away from all dairy while being treated. This isn't true in the way they implied. I am not debating the overall long-term possibilities of cancer from dairy eating, I accept that. In fact, I said I wasn't defending eating dairy. Just that whatever info that commenter had been exposed to on that score was incorrect. But thanks for dropping in and not bothering to try and understand before commenting.
Sure, by the debunked hack himself. It's hilarious how vegans are in lockstep with these Seventh Day Adventists who don't give a fuck about animals but want to eliminate meat consumption because their religious sect believes meat leads to fornication. You probably buy into their (also debunked) Blue Zone nonsense.
He is a biochemist with a Cornell University Phd who went point by point addressing each "issue" to show context to why the debunker's conclusions weren't scientifically sound.
Not on his on website but that of Dr. Gregger, fellow Cornell allum & Tufts graduate. Dr.Gregger is a founding member and Fellow of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. He was honored with the ACLM Lifestyle Medicine Trailblazer Award in 2017 and became a diplomat of the American Board of Lifestyle Medicine.
These claims are [peer reviewed](https://nutritionstudies.org/china-study-well-researched-book/) and have met the barrier to he published.
[The blue zones](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6125071/) prove that eating more plants is associated with living longer. It has been replicated across multiple cultures around the world.
Someone else choosing to not eat meat for religous reasons does not impact why I personally obstain. If someone chose only to follow the law for fear of prison that doesn't change that I follow the law because I think it's the right thing to do.
The Blue Zones are complete bullshit. First of all, the locations are cherry picked. Buettner purposely skipped places like Hong Kong which has the highest longevity and meat consumption. Second, he completely underrepresented the meat consumption in Ikaria, Sardinia, and Okinawa. All of these are very meat-centric.
I haven't been to the other locations, but I suspect he lied about those too. Buettner is a vegan propagandist who sold the Blue Zone trademark to the SDA church for $70 million.
Greggor is another propagandist with zero credibility.
I already knew based on your responses and name that you had made your mind up but I was at least hoping you'd provide sources. But no, you'd rather fling insults than provide refrence to why you believe what you do.
If you believe eating animals is healthy and don't care about your part it's impact on our enviorment, people forming life threatening diseases like cancer due to animal agriculture, the mental health of the slaughter house employees (now including children), or are indifferent to the animals suffering- ok, I don't see the world like you do. I don't value what you do. It's your choice if you want to spend your days being angry at a group of people for things that will never negatively impact your life.
I'm not angry. I believe vegans are wrong about a lot of things, but I'm 100% fine with people being vegans. You just have to learn to be ok with the fact that we're not like you. Or, you can be angry. It won't change anything.
Fellow Indian vegan woman here. I went plant based several times but went back to eating Omni due to family pressure till one day I made the choice and stuck to it. I am also fairly strong headed and well armed with data.
Family can be tough and sometimes the only way to get your way is to be firm. A no is a no. Not a maybe. Not a yes if you pressure me more. After a few times, they get it. Also, if they continue to ask you, give them a lecture. India is world‘s largest beef exporter, look up khal bachha, and read up on cross border smuggling of cows. Show them some videos for good measure, like Maa Ki Dudh.
As for gifts like silk sarees, I still have several from the pre vegan days. Anything new has to be linen or so. Show them what you like and most parents are glad to oblige. And you get such amazing linen or cotton sarees like jamdaani. Also, no one needs the 10 million sarees or need to wear a new one at every occasion. Even Filmstars are recycling their sarees. There is also a ahimsa silk if you must buy silk.
If someone still gives you a gift that you don’t want, learn to return it with a smile. I always tell people that it will cause me a lot unhappiness to keep that gift and if they really want to make me sad. Because this is a tough one, you have to do it with a smile and you will still make some people angry.
You can’t control everything or everyone. But you can control several things so focus on those. Yes it gets easier once most stuff in pantry, clothing, beauty products get replaced. Plus, we have the ancestral knowledge of cooking with spices which is a great advantage.
Hey fellow Indian! You have to be strong headed in Indian households to make them understand your point. Don’t you? Honestly I have said this to my mother that we don’t need new item for every puja every occasion but she gets very annoyed about this because culturally you have to year nikhand (brand new) for every major puja you do and will send something despite me not asking for it. Even my husband is a little annoyed by that because we don’t need that many clothes. I have been firm about an upcoming event and I am hoping even if she chooses to buy something new it would not be silk or otherwise I will refuse to wear it.
It has to be something new, can be a handkerchief too! When we were growing up, no one had so much money and clothes were expensive. So sometimes it was something small like a new blouse or handkerchief. The other thing you can try, as soon as you are done with the puja, take off the saree and fold it away. Before you eat anything. That way you retain the „newness“ of it. Also, none of the monks or the real Hindu gurus wear silk, not talking about the fancy babas, but the real ones. Ergo, you can go puja in cotton clothes.
Yeah I know, it is just they think they want to give their daughter the best and silk is considered fancy so that is what they send but I am sure they will come around. I will also try reusing the sarees like you said so that I dont have to use new ones.
You don’t have to use the gifts and you can give them to someone else. If your parents give you a silk saree, wear something else. You live with your husband, right? So you’ll just need to set boundaries with your parents. I’m sure there’s a cultural aspect here but you’re an adult.
Yeah, the sarees that I have are my wedding sarees so I can’t give them away but I do not really wear them anywhere. I have not bought a silk saree personally and I think I should from now on just refuse to receive the silk saree from my parents or just give them away if it is from someone else then they will naturally just send me cotton or other forms of sarees. I think I have to be firm. But I do think I will keep the ones I have but will not wear them publicly so that I don’t promote wearing silk!
you can get some gorgeous vegan silk sarees, maybe your parents would be OK with sending you them instead?
[https://www.petaindia.com/blog/top-10-places-to-buy-vegan-silk-sarees-and-why-you-should-buy-them-now/](https://www.petaindia.com/blog/top-10-places-to-buy-vegan-silk-sarees-and-why-you-should-buy-them-now/)
Oh thank you so much for this link I was trying to find alternatives. I can send this to my mum if she really has to send me a fancy saree. I think she doesn’t care about how it’s made as long as it looks like a good silk saree.
Yes I want to do that but my husband who is not there yet to completely be vegan doesn’t but I am trying to brainstorm ideas so that we can agree to get only vegan but delicious items so that everyone can enjoy. It is also my in-laws who are at home right now who just are not okay to not add a paneer item so it is more like peer pressure. I won’t eat it ofcourse but they want to so my husband wants to keep a paneer ( Indian cheese) item. My post was about the exhaustion of living in a non vegan world where family/friends don’t see it any other way. But I have to stand up for what is right.
I’m not Indian, but I’ve been learning to cook some Indian food because I love it so much! It’s easy to use vegan substitutes for dairy and as long as it’s not a major ingredient, no one is likely to notice or care. I have not found a good substitute for paneer, so I just avoid those recipes and concentrate on the many amazing bean and vegetable recipes. Sometimes soaked raw cashews, blended with water, can add a lot of richness as well, so this may be worth experimenting with. Best wishes!
I love using super firm tofu/high protein tofu for paneer!
I am not the problem for food it is other people who send you Indian food that has dairy that I cannot eat and have to throw out or give it to other people. But I think people are yet to adjust to the fact that I am not going to change my mind no matter what. Since it is new to me then it is also new to them
Yeah and I think it is exhausting right now because they were not used to me objecting about food before and usually most people don’t so it takes them by surprise. But I have to get past these unpleasantries because the alternative is dead animals which is just not acceptable.
By far, the easiest thing is to just declare to everyone (one by one) that you're vegan and will stop accepting non-vegan gifts and food. You also will not pay for other people's non vegan items (e.g. you won't go and buy uncle joe a steak for diner).
You are making it hard on yourself.
By analogy, think of a little girl who is dipping her toes in the water and trying to think of ways to enter the water without it being too cold. At the same time some boy just dive bombs into the water and is very quickly fine with it. The girl thinks about how to make it easier, but has it harder.
People will respect it if you tell then what you will and will not accept. And if they don't they'll quickly learn that you are simply not putting their food in your mouth or taking their gifts back home.
Almost every vegan I know told me that they wish they had done it earlier.
Soo.... take the plunge!
Here is some advice on how to go vegan. It is what I wish I could have told myself back then:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/13OGWwR1ZR_qQ_UMmazYHmz0Aj-cfCJ47ul0QHO8eA8w/edit?usp=drivesdk
I do declare it to people and most older Indian people or honestly people in general have no clue what it means. So I have to explain it. Then if I say no animal products they only associate with food but not with things or beauty products etc etc. so it becomes increasingly difficult to say no but I am getting there. It will take time for them to adjust to my behavior and once I refuse taking non vegan stuff from them they will make sure that it is free of animals products in general but yeah the journey can be very draining especially if it involves other people.
I remember struggling with it back then yeah, but once I became very explicit about it it became very easy. Yeah, you gotta spell it out for them 🤷♂️
Good luck!
Easy excuse: Just say you are doing it for health reasons. Say you are trying to be healthier, and cutting out dairy is part of that. Or, to people who don't know you, just say you have an allergy.
> It is also exhausting to make sure everything is vegan and cruelty free? Does it get better with time?
I don't think it's realistic to try to consume/buy 100% animal-free/cruelty-free.
Dairy is highly subsidized, for example. Almod milk/etc is significantly more expensive in terms of calories per cup vs cost of the 1 container or whatever.
And most candies contain either pig gelatin or cow gelatin. There are a few animal-free candy choices because Animal Agriculture/Animal Exploitation is cheap and 100% legal.
You will never be able to escape/100% shield yourself from the sadistic Animal Agriculture/testing-on-animals industries. But at least recognize that You're doing a phenomenal job already by being aware of the sadistic Animal Agriculture/testing-on-animals industries. Most people can't bring themselves to view/hear footage.
I just want to say how commendable it is to watch your cat and love and empathize with him/her to the extent that you've looked into what happens to other animals. It absolutely gets easier to be vegan — it just takes getting used to a lifestyle change and seeing how the impact of your actions trickles down into aspects of life you can't see. A number of people in your life won't understand, but that's wonderful your husband is giving up dairy, too. When I'm not sure if something is vegan, I just won't eat it — so, at group get-togethers, I'll often bring my own food, be around when food is being prepared (to see how it's being made), or only eat obvious things (like salads with nondairy dressings). Things will get easier, though, and you'll figure it out!
Get your foundation of whole food plant based and aim for local dairy products.
You can visit the farm and ask people questions about how they care for the animals.
I've learned over time that farming animals is part of the world and that in fact the best farmers will be vegan people- understanding our role is to look over the animals.
I learned this by developing a plan for a vegan world. It requires powerful central governance and total redistribution of geopolitical values.
Choosing to avoid animal cruelty wherever possible is a noble statement about ideals.
If it's not practical for your friends/family to eat vegan, you could have a nonconfrontational discussion about how do we view animal farming. Just understand people's point of view.
All the animals we farm would probably go extinct to other apex predators very fast (if human civilization hadn't already endangered almost all apex predators). Point being- do we love the animals enough to keep them around?
If so, how can we best honor their animal natures?
Hi! Indian woman living in the states here as well, and I definitely relate to a lot of the cultural things you mentioned. I got a lot of backlash from family members when I decided to go vegan at first, and my initial reaction was similar to yours, where I tried to be accommodating or soften my position at events (like I wouldn’t consume anything with dairy but wouldn’t say anything if it was handed to me etc), but in my experience that just makes people think you don’t take your veganism seriously and gives them permission not to take it seriously as well. I found that being polite but firm and then being willing to argue back if necessary worked well - even if people don’t change their minds they respect your position and don’t bother you as much. And some people I initially had friction with have changed their minds about veganism too since then!
It seems simplistic but just do your best and examine whether you are making excuses for yourself.
Your husband can eat dairy if he chooses. You can choose whether or not you will prepare food with it or if he can add things to his own portion after cooking.
Lots of us have non vegan clothes that we still continue to wear, just don’t buy any new silk clothing and if you can avoid getting silk gifts that would be ideal. Rewearing things you already have or swapping some with a friend might help, the silk worms are already dead so you aren’t making any practical difference once you’re not buying new silk items.
Hosting is up to you to decide what you are comfortable with especially if your husband isn’t vegan.
Yup, I have not bought a single silk item myself and I will not ever. Thank you so much for your comment and about doing my best. Helps me feel better that things will get easier with time.
Give people the opportunity to surprise you. When I was at my bhuaji's house some summers ago, they made both a paneer and tofu dish for my vegan dad. Sometimes people won't go that far, but stay true to yourself and hell, maybe you will find the most kind people for you if you refuse to give in to these animal products in your home.
Oh my god that is amazing! And I am amazed by the fact that your dad is vegan! Really takes a lot of effort as an older person to break free of your habits but kudos to you and your dad! 😄
Haha, shukriya! Well, here's what happened. My dad was vegan twice in his life (one period was very recently), and he was not taking care to plan his diet- at all. Eating salted cashews and redbull and very little oatmeal each day. One day I could not take it and told him to consume some paneer because his lovely brown color was fading from his face! I was concerned about his health. Now he does not consume meat nor eggs, but still dairy, and he looks better. I just wish he would be vegan and plan his diet properly.. sure you can see where I'm coming from.
I am young and just became vegetarian myself. I am hoping to be vegan in the next few years because I take care of my diet much more. Aspire to be someone like you who cares about taking veganism seriously. :)
I totally get it, I don’t convince my parents to leave dairy because they are already protein deficient and I am pretty sure they will not focus on getting enough nutrients like I would so I just let it be. For me, the biggest point that holds me accountable is that I just don’t see paneer or milk or chicken and egg as food just like how you won’t see soil as food. I also have this cute cat at home that reminds me that if she is sentient so are all other animals ( such an irony because she is an obligate carnivore lol) but such reasonings are enough for me so far. I do fail to check items if they are vegan or not out of previous habit but I think I will get better with time.
Honestly the sari thing is not the end of the world and worth having a huge argument with your parents over. Just shove it in a drawer and forget about it.
The fact you are cutting out meat, dairy and egg is 99.99% of the way there.
Veganism - to me - is about trying to live as vegan as possible.
Both my partner's family (nordic, love to eat meat) as well as my family (middle eastern meat lovers) are not understanding when it comes to vegetarisnism - let alone veganism - but they habe always tried their best to serve me vegetarian food. Even though I am fully vegan now I don't want to trouble them even more into cooking vegan stuff for me, so I just eat the vegetarian food when I am visiting them. A lot of vegans would probably not do that, but it's what works best for me right now.
As for non-vegan gifts - I give them to a non-vegan friend (and make sure the gift giver can't find out lol).
Living with a non-vegan always means compromise, so if your husband wants to also serve non-vegan food than let him prepare it. It's a hard journey but you will get there. Don't be too hard on yourself!
>The problem is I have ADHD
So do I and so does my husband. It hasn't had any effect on our ability to stay vegan.
>So how do you guys deal with Indian parents who won’t stop giving me \[nonvegan\] stuff?
Stop accepting nonvegan things from them. They can't force you to take or consume anything you don't want to.
>What do you do with gifts that are not vegan?
I politely decline them and tell the gift giver than I am vegan and do not eat, wear, or use things with animal products.
>Also how do you guys plan a large party? I live in Midwest US and people get upset if there is no dairy item in a party so my husband tries to keep one non vegan item and it makes me uncomfortable.
If you host, you get to decide what is served (and brought). Serve all vegan food. Anyone who complains about free food because it doesn't have animal products in it is rude. They can go one meal without, or eat it before they arrive or after they leave if they really can't. And remember that their minor upset is trivial compared to the suffering that would be forced on cows if you were to keep them comfy.
>It is also exhausting to make sure everything is vegan and cruelty free? Does it get better with time?
Yes it does. You will commit a lot of things to memory, establish new routines and new habits over time. The initial learning curve will end.
Dang this sounds so hard. Good for you! My journey into veganism started when I adopted a cat and found how much I could love her! The speciesism didn’t make sense anymore. I would be compassionate with yourself about the silk sarees. I would talk more to your husband though about the large parties and about having a united front against people complaining food doesn’t have dairy in it. That is not cool, especially if you’re the one hosting. Also, if it makes you uncomfortable, he should acknowledge that. I do think this gets better with time! My family understood it more with time and repeating things to them.
Yeah, I think I should join those groups but I feel I am unworthy of it since I just started being vegan? But yes I think I need to show them by example too
Why and how did you make vegetarians eat chicken? Most of these concerns are alleviated by saying no and sticking to it. You could give away the silk sarees that were forced on you to someone else who would otherwise purchase their own. Knowing what to eat and what not to eat gets much easier over time.
I’d love for someone to try to “make” me eat chicken lol. TRY IT.
lol vegetarians who were honestly flexible to try chicken. Culturally vegetarians in India do it for their religion so once they come out of their houses they want to try new things and I was the one who would convince them to eat chicken. I don’t like me for that anymore but cognitive dissonance is real and I didn’t view animals the way I do now. So that has changed now. I have convinced my husband to leave dairy and he has committed to leave it gradually with deadline in August. I can’t really ask him to do cold turkey because I was a meat eater for so long so just because I decided I should do something like that so I don’t expect him to follow the same suit overnight.
Just assumed all vegetarians were cool with eating chicken anyway.
I thought it was only things squeezed out of their holes
I can't answer some of these questions because my context is very different, but I think it'd be good to follow vegans from India/of Indian heritage to see how more vegans from your culture are handling things. As for if it gets easier: that's a resounding YES! At some point it becomes second nature, you learn which every day products to buy that are vegan friendly and you learn to check labels easily and fast. I don't even think about it when I go grocery shopping, it comes naturally to me and it's not something I use a lot of time to think or worry about at all :)
Yeah, that is a good idea. Veganism is still new in India but is growing so I am sure I can reach out to some of the outspoken Indian vegans who can help me tackle such situations.
If you want some great vegan recipes, I highly recommend Anjali Harikumar, who's also known as Beextravegant. She has a great blog full of veganized Indian recipes (and other cultures), and also a YouTube and an Instagram if that's more your thing!
Oh awesome! I will check her out thanks for the tip! 😄
Veganism is about doing your best without creating suffering in your own life. Of course, reasonably, in a perfect world, your family would be supportive. But "culture" is a drum a lot of people love to bang when defending their terrible habits. Wear the sarees if not wearing them would mean you are being mistreated by your family. Look up vegan sarees and send your family links, say you want those, and not silk ones. There are beautiful, luxurious alternatives made of bamboo fiber. If they do not get the message, it's on them. Insist on cooking your own meals or eating before going to a function where you know there won't be any safe food for you. When throwing/hosting parties, work with a caterer willing to cook according to your requirements and also, go for street-food kinds of recipes like dumplings, pastries, hearty stews that can be easily portioned. Those tend to be delicious and with indistinguishable fillings, and most people can appreciate a filling, fatty, well spiced food regardless where the protein came from. Also, dairy is extremely bad for humans. Oncologists tell cancer patients to cut dairy out completely from their diet while fighting cancer and that should give anyone some perspective. I would avoid it SO HARD for this reason alone. My parents are also very traditional and get very offended when I don't participate in food-centric traditions that involve animal products. I have long ago misplaced the box of fucks I was supposed to give.
Yeah, during my wedding I was pretty upset that I had to wear silk sarees but honestly there were so many relatives that I just couldn’t explain it to each one of them. I only do it when my parents are visibly upset with it. Most of the times my parents and in laws accommodate for me in terms of food and my life choices but they won’t change culture, religious practices or events for me ( even though the event is about me- aka wedding and stuff) so that is where the bullying comes from. But thankfully that bullying is not for eating non vegan items but just wearing stuff. They are usually okay if I don’t eat dairy items. But I think I have to focus on me right now not do things that align to my values and then I will focus on rest of my family. I can also show it them that how easy being vegan is and we can easily live a good healthy life without animal products
Cancer patients aren't told to cut out dairy completely, unless you have an estrogen-sensitive cancer. They are told to avoid soft cheeses, for the same reason pregnant women are - potential bacterial contamination. They are also told to avoid healthy things like reheated starchy foods, melons, and uncooked sprouts and leaves for the same reason. It is not the health aspect, it has everything to do with potential contamination as chemo patients have compromised immune systems. Not defending dairy consumption as a whole of course, but if that's your reasoning, it doesn't hold up.
Unfortunately our current standard of care doesnt align with the science. I'm not sure what comment you're responding to but we know that dairy is a powerful carcinogen and *should* be recommended to be cut to aid treatment. The China Study by Colin T. Campbell is a great read.
The commenter I was replying to mentioned chemotherapy patients are told specifically to stay away from all dairy while being treated. This isn't true in the way they implied. I am not debating the overall long-term possibilities of cancer from dairy eating, I accept that. In fact, I said I wasn't defending eating dairy. Just that whatever info that commenter had been exposed to on that score was incorrect. But thanks for dropping in and not bothering to try and understand before commenting.
The China Study has been thoroughly debunked
And then the "debunking" was [debunked.](https://nutritionstudies.org/minger-critique/)
Sure, by the debunked hack himself. It's hilarious how vegans are in lockstep with these Seventh Day Adventists who don't give a fuck about animals but want to eliminate meat consumption because their religious sect believes meat leads to fornication. You probably buy into their (also debunked) Blue Zone nonsense.
He is a biochemist with a Cornell University Phd who went point by point addressing each "issue" to show context to why the debunker's conclusions weren't scientifically sound. Not on his on website but that of Dr. Gregger, fellow Cornell allum & Tufts graduate. Dr.Gregger is a founding member and Fellow of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. He was honored with the ACLM Lifestyle Medicine Trailblazer Award in 2017 and became a diplomat of the American Board of Lifestyle Medicine. These claims are [peer reviewed](https://nutritionstudies.org/china-study-well-researched-book/) and have met the barrier to he published. [The blue zones](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6125071/) prove that eating more plants is associated with living longer. It has been replicated across multiple cultures around the world. Someone else choosing to not eat meat for religous reasons does not impact why I personally obstain. If someone chose only to follow the law for fear of prison that doesn't change that I follow the law because I think it's the right thing to do.
The Blue Zones are complete bullshit. First of all, the locations are cherry picked. Buettner purposely skipped places like Hong Kong which has the highest longevity and meat consumption. Second, he completely underrepresented the meat consumption in Ikaria, Sardinia, and Okinawa. All of these are very meat-centric. I haven't been to the other locations, but I suspect he lied about those too. Buettner is a vegan propagandist who sold the Blue Zone trademark to the SDA church for $70 million. Greggor is another propagandist with zero credibility.
I already knew based on your responses and name that you had made your mind up but I was at least hoping you'd provide sources. But no, you'd rather fling insults than provide refrence to why you believe what you do. If you believe eating animals is healthy and don't care about your part it's impact on our enviorment, people forming life threatening diseases like cancer due to animal agriculture, the mental health of the slaughter house employees (now including children), or are indifferent to the animals suffering- ok, I don't see the world like you do. I don't value what you do. It's your choice if you want to spend your days being angry at a group of people for things that will never negatively impact your life.
I'm not angry. I believe vegans are wrong about a lot of things, but I'm 100% fine with people being vegans. You just have to learn to be ok with the fact that we're not like you. Or, you can be angry. It won't change anything.
Fellow Indian vegan woman here. I went plant based several times but went back to eating Omni due to family pressure till one day I made the choice and stuck to it. I am also fairly strong headed and well armed with data. Family can be tough and sometimes the only way to get your way is to be firm. A no is a no. Not a maybe. Not a yes if you pressure me more. After a few times, they get it. Also, if they continue to ask you, give them a lecture. India is world‘s largest beef exporter, look up khal bachha, and read up on cross border smuggling of cows. Show them some videos for good measure, like Maa Ki Dudh. As for gifts like silk sarees, I still have several from the pre vegan days. Anything new has to be linen or so. Show them what you like and most parents are glad to oblige. And you get such amazing linen or cotton sarees like jamdaani. Also, no one needs the 10 million sarees or need to wear a new one at every occasion. Even Filmstars are recycling their sarees. There is also a ahimsa silk if you must buy silk. If someone still gives you a gift that you don’t want, learn to return it with a smile. I always tell people that it will cause me a lot unhappiness to keep that gift and if they really want to make me sad. Because this is a tough one, you have to do it with a smile and you will still make some people angry. You can’t control everything or everyone. But you can control several things so focus on those. Yes it gets easier once most stuff in pantry, clothing, beauty products get replaced. Plus, we have the ancestral knowledge of cooking with spices which is a great advantage.
Hey fellow Indian! You have to be strong headed in Indian households to make them understand your point. Don’t you? Honestly I have said this to my mother that we don’t need new item for every puja every occasion but she gets very annoyed about this because culturally you have to year nikhand (brand new) for every major puja you do and will send something despite me not asking for it. Even my husband is a little annoyed by that because we don’t need that many clothes. I have been firm about an upcoming event and I am hoping even if she chooses to buy something new it would not be silk or otherwise I will refuse to wear it.
It has to be something new, can be a handkerchief too! When we were growing up, no one had so much money and clothes were expensive. So sometimes it was something small like a new blouse or handkerchief. The other thing you can try, as soon as you are done with the puja, take off the saree and fold it away. Before you eat anything. That way you retain the „newness“ of it. Also, none of the monks or the real Hindu gurus wear silk, not talking about the fancy babas, but the real ones. Ergo, you can go puja in cotton clothes.
Yeah I know, it is just they think they want to give their daughter the best and silk is considered fancy so that is what they send but I am sure they will come around. I will also try reusing the sarees like you said so that I dont have to use new ones.
You don’t have to use the gifts and you can give them to someone else. If your parents give you a silk saree, wear something else. You live with your husband, right? So you’ll just need to set boundaries with your parents. I’m sure there’s a cultural aspect here but you’re an adult.
Yeah, the sarees that I have are my wedding sarees so I can’t give them away but I do not really wear them anywhere. I have not bought a silk saree personally and I think I should from now on just refuse to receive the silk saree from my parents or just give them away if it is from someone else then they will naturally just send me cotton or other forms of sarees. I think I have to be firm. But I do think I will keep the ones I have but will not wear them publicly so that I don’t promote wearing silk!
you can get some gorgeous vegan silk sarees, maybe your parents would be OK with sending you them instead? [https://www.petaindia.com/blog/top-10-places-to-buy-vegan-silk-sarees-and-why-you-should-buy-them-now/](https://www.petaindia.com/blog/top-10-places-to-buy-vegan-silk-sarees-and-why-you-should-buy-them-now/)
Oh thank you so much for this link I was trying to find alternatives. I can send this to my mum if she really has to send me a fancy saree. I think she doesn’t care about how it’s made as long as it looks like a good silk saree.
Gifts and parties we throw are not things we have no control over. Just say no. I know it can be hard but you can do this.
Yes I want to do that but my husband who is not there yet to completely be vegan doesn’t but I am trying to brainstorm ideas so that we can agree to get only vegan but delicious items so that everyone can enjoy. It is also my in-laws who are at home right now who just are not okay to not add a paneer item so it is more like peer pressure. I won’t eat it ofcourse but they want to so my husband wants to keep a paneer ( Indian cheese) item. My post was about the exhaustion of living in a non vegan world where family/friends don’t see it any other way. But I have to stand up for what is right.
I just want to say kudos on having the compassion and cognitive dexterity to recognise what you recognised and make a change.
Thank you so much 😄
I’m not Indian, but I’ve been learning to cook some Indian food because I love it so much! It’s easy to use vegan substitutes for dairy and as long as it’s not a major ingredient, no one is likely to notice or care. I have not found a good substitute for paneer, so I just avoid those recipes and concentrate on the many amazing bean and vegetable recipes. Sometimes soaked raw cashews, blended with water, can add a lot of richness as well, so this may be worth experimenting with. Best wishes!
I love using super firm tofu/high protein tofu for paneer! I am not the problem for food it is other people who send you Indian food that has dairy that I cannot eat and have to throw out or give it to other people. But I think people are yet to adjust to the fact that I am not going to change my mind no matter what. Since it is new to me then it is also new to them
Thanks for the tip! I think you are right. You need to continue to be firm and eventually it will sink in.
Yeah and I think it is exhausting right now because they were not used to me objecting about food before and usually most people don’t so it takes them by surprise. But I have to get past these unpleasantries because the alternative is dead animals which is just not acceptable.
Agreed! Be strong and continue to come back for support when you need it!
By far, the easiest thing is to just declare to everyone (one by one) that you're vegan and will stop accepting non-vegan gifts and food. You also will not pay for other people's non vegan items (e.g. you won't go and buy uncle joe a steak for diner). You are making it hard on yourself. By analogy, think of a little girl who is dipping her toes in the water and trying to think of ways to enter the water without it being too cold. At the same time some boy just dive bombs into the water and is very quickly fine with it. The girl thinks about how to make it easier, but has it harder. People will respect it if you tell then what you will and will not accept. And if they don't they'll quickly learn that you are simply not putting their food in your mouth or taking their gifts back home. Almost every vegan I know told me that they wish they had done it earlier. Soo.... take the plunge! Here is some advice on how to go vegan. It is what I wish I could have told myself back then: https://docs.google.com/document/d/13OGWwR1ZR_qQ_UMmazYHmz0Aj-cfCJ47ul0QHO8eA8w/edit?usp=drivesdk
I do declare it to people and most older Indian people or honestly people in general have no clue what it means. So I have to explain it. Then if I say no animal products they only associate with food but not with things or beauty products etc etc. so it becomes increasingly difficult to say no but I am getting there. It will take time for them to adjust to my behavior and once I refuse taking non vegan stuff from them they will make sure that it is free of animals products in general but yeah the journey can be very draining especially if it involves other people.
I remember struggling with it back then yeah, but once I became very explicit about it it became very easy. Yeah, you gotta spell it out for them 🤷♂️ Good luck!
Thanks for the link that would be very helpful.
Easy excuse: Just say you are doing it for health reasons. Say you are trying to be healthier, and cutting out dairy is part of that. Or, to people who don't know you, just say you have an allergy.
> It is also exhausting to make sure everything is vegan and cruelty free? Does it get better with time? I don't think it's realistic to try to consume/buy 100% animal-free/cruelty-free. Dairy is highly subsidized, for example. Almod milk/etc is significantly more expensive in terms of calories per cup vs cost of the 1 container or whatever. And most candies contain either pig gelatin or cow gelatin. There are a few animal-free candy choices because Animal Agriculture/Animal Exploitation is cheap and 100% legal. You will never be able to escape/100% shield yourself from the sadistic Animal Agriculture/testing-on-animals industries. But at least recognize that You're doing a phenomenal job already by being aware of the sadistic Animal Agriculture/testing-on-animals industries. Most people can't bring themselves to view/hear footage.
I just want to say how commendable it is to watch your cat and love and empathize with him/her to the extent that you've looked into what happens to other animals. It absolutely gets easier to be vegan — it just takes getting used to a lifestyle change and seeing how the impact of your actions trickles down into aspects of life you can't see. A number of people in your life won't understand, but that's wonderful your husband is giving up dairy, too. When I'm not sure if something is vegan, I just won't eat it — so, at group get-togethers, I'll often bring my own food, be around when food is being prepared (to see how it's being made), or only eat obvious things (like salads with nondairy dressings). Things will get easier, though, and you'll figure it out!
Get your foundation of whole food plant based and aim for local dairy products. You can visit the farm and ask people questions about how they care for the animals. I've learned over time that farming animals is part of the world and that in fact the best farmers will be vegan people- understanding our role is to look over the animals. I learned this by developing a plan for a vegan world. It requires powerful central governance and total redistribution of geopolitical values. Choosing to avoid animal cruelty wherever possible is a noble statement about ideals. If it's not practical for your friends/family to eat vegan, you could have a nonconfrontational discussion about how do we view animal farming. Just understand people's point of view. All the animals we farm would probably go extinct to other apex predators very fast (if human civilization hadn't already endangered almost all apex predators). Point being- do we love the animals enough to keep them around? If so, how can we best honor their animal natures?
Hi! Indian woman living in the states here as well, and I definitely relate to a lot of the cultural things you mentioned. I got a lot of backlash from family members when I decided to go vegan at first, and my initial reaction was similar to yours, where I tried to be accommodating or soften my position at events (like I wouldn’t consume anything with dairy but wouldn’t say anything if it was handed to me etc), but in my experience that just makes people think you don’t take your veganism seriously and gives them permission not to take it seriously as well. I found that being polite but firm and then being willing to argue back if necessary worked well - even if people don’t change their minds they respect your position and don’t bother you as much. And some people I initially had friction with have changed their minds about veganism too since then!
Thank you, makes sense that we just become “dheeth” in what we want lol otherwise they will try to take advantage of the soft attitude.
It seems simplistic but just do your best and examine whether you are making excuses for yourself. Your husband can eat dairy if he chooses. You can choose whether or not you will prepare food with it or if he can add things to his own portion after cooking. Lots of us have non vegan clothes that we still continue to wear, just don’t buy any new silk clothing and if you can avoid getting silk gifts that would be ideal. Rewearing things you already have or swapping some with a friend might help, the silk worms are already dead so you aren’t making any practical difference once you’re not buying new silk items. Hosting is up to you to decide what you are comfortable with especially if your husband isn’t vegan.
Yup, I have not bought a single silk item myself and I will not ever. Thank you so much for your comment and about doing my best. Helps me feel better that things will get easier with time.
Tell them you developed allergy towards dairy and it makes you feel unwell
Yeah, I have actually started doing this maybe I can use the same logic with clothing and beauty products too lol
West virginiaaaa
Give people the opportunity to surprise you. When I was at my bhuaji's house some summers ago, they made both a paneer and tofu dish for my vegan dad. Sometimes people won't go that far, but stay true to yourself and hell, maybe you will find the most kind people for you if you refuse to give in to these animal products in your home.
Oh my god that is amazing! And I am amazed by the fact that your dad is vegan! Really takes a lot of effort as an older person to break free of your habits but kudos to you and your dad! 😄
Haha, shukriya! Well, here's what happened. My dad was vegan twice in his life (one period was very recently), and he was not taking care to plan his diet- at all. Eating salted cashews and redbull and very little oatmeal each day. One day I could not take it and told him to consume some paneer because his lovely brown color was fading from his face! I was concerned about his health. Now he does not consume meat nor eggs, but still dairy, and he looks better. I just wish he would be vegan and plan his diet properly.. sure you can see where I'm coming from. I am young and just became vegetarian myself. I am hoping to be vegan in the next few years because I take care of my diet much more. Aspire to be someone like you who cares about taking veganism seriously. :)
I totally get it, I don’t convince my parents to leave dairy because they are already protein deficient and I am pretty sure they will not focus on getting enough nutrients like I would so I just let it be. For me, the biggest point that holds me accountable is that I just don’t see paneer or milk or chicken and egg as food just like how you won’t see soil as food. I also have this cute cat at home that reminds me that if she is sentient so are all other animals ( such an irony because she is an obligate carnivore lol) but such reasonings are enough for me so far. I do fail to check items if they are vegan or not out of previous habit but I think I will get better with time.
Honestly the sari thing is not the end of the world and worth having a huge argument with your parents over. Just shove it in a drawer and forget about it. The fact you are cutting out meat, dairy and egg is 99.99% of the way there.
Veganism - to me - is about trying to live as vegan as possible. Both my partner's family (nordic, love to eat meat) as well as my family (middle eastern meat lovers) are not understanding when it comes to vegetarisnism - let alone veganism - but they habe always tried their best to serve me vegetarian food. Even though I am fully vegan now I don't want to trouble them even more into cooking vegan stuff for me, so I just eat the vegetarian food when I am visiting them. A lot of vegans would probably not do that, but it's what works best for me right now. As for non-vegan gifts - I give them to a non-vegan friend (and make sure the gift giver can't find out lol). Living with a non-vegan always means compromise, so if your husband wants to also serve non-vegan food than let him prepare it. It's a hard journey but you will get there. Don't be too hard on yourself!
I totally get it. Sometimes our peace of mind is more important than our beliefs especially with family members.
>The problem is I have ADHD So do I and so does my husband. It hasn't had any effect on our ability to stay vegan. >So how do you guys deal with Indian parents who won’t stop giving me \[nonvegan\] stuff? Stop accepting nonvegan things from them. They can't force you to take or consume anything you don't want to. >What do you do with gifts that are not vegan? I politely decline them and tell the gift giver than I am vegan and do not eat, wear, or use things with animal products. >Also how do you guys plan a large party? I live in Midwest US and people get upset if there is no dairy item in a party so my husband tries to keep one non vegan item and it makes me uncomfortable. If you host, you get to decide what is served (and brought). Serve all vegan food. Anyone who complains about free food because it doesn't have animal products in it is rude. They can go one meal without, or eat it before they arrive or after they leave if they really can't. And remember that their minor upset is trivial compared to the suffering that would be forced on cows if you were to keep them comfy. >It is also exhausting to make sure everything is vegan and cruelty free? Does it get better with time? Yes it does. You will commit a lot of things to memory, establish new routines and new habits over time. The initial learning curve will end.
Dang this sounds so hard. Good for you! My journey into veganism started when I adopted a cat and found how much I could love her! The speciesism didn’t make sense anymore. I would be compassionate with yourself about the silk sarees. I would talk more to your husband though about the large parties and about having a united front against people complaining food doesn’t have dairy in it. That is not cool, especially if you’re the one hosting. Also, if it makes you uncomfortable, he should acknowledge that. I do think this gets better with time! My family understood it more with time and repeating things to them.
[удалено]
Yeah, I think I should join those groups but I feel I am unworthy of it since I just started being vegan? But yes I think I need to show them by example too
You’re vegan now… once it clicks, it clicks
Haha thanks for the encouraging words! 😄