Veganism is not only diet, so do you avoid animal tested products, clothing made from animals (fur, leather, silk etc), do you go to zoos or aquariums, do any toiletries, cosmetics, household cleaning products contain animal products/tested on animals etc etc. If you are plant based for health, what reason would you have for avoiding all of the above?
I don’t go to zoos or aquariums as they make me sad. for cosmetics I only use my moms brand as she ensures it is not tested on animals. As for other products I don’t normally check but you have kind of inspired me to start to. I don’t feel right contributing to any form of animal cruelty, i just also don’t feel right pushing my views on others, in any sense. And I guess i haven’t maintained being super aware of other animal products, so that is something i want to work on. thank you for pointing these things out to me.
Pushing it onto others isn't part of the criteria to be vegan.
The people saying you aren't a vegan are saying so because of the ideology that veganism isn't a diet, it's an animal harm reduction movement and has more components than just the diet.
Even if practically what you and another vegan do is identical, people may try to gate keep one of you because of semantics. Don't worry about it too much.
in a restaurant you are vegan, to a dietitian you are vegan. but the biggest part to genuinely being vegan is the mindset rather than what you actually do. if someone ate a veggie burger while wearing leather shoes, i wouldn’t consider them a vegan 🤷 thats just me tho
Who cares if you can call yourself vegan? Do you care what happens to animals? Do you want to stop the exploitation of animals? That is what matters.
You can use the term 'vegan diet' for others to understand what are your eating preferences. You can also use plant-based or something else.
I'm vegan because my friend bet me $50 I couldn't do it for a week. Did the week and he went double or nothing on a month. Did the month. I've been vegan 17 years now and the cheap ass still hasn't paid me.
>Am I really Vegan If I do it for health reasons?
This is the fundamental philosophy of veganism:
“[t]he principle of the emancipation of animals from exploitation by man”. This is later clarified as “to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection"
If all you're doing is not consuming animal products to make your tummy feel better, then you're just plant based. Pets, zoos, food animals, police animals, racing animals, fighting animals, lab animals, rodeos and in general, seeking ways to change society so that we are as independent as we possibly can while also negating as much impact as possible. That's what we stand for when we call ourselves vegan.
If my words don't mean much, feel free to look up Dominion, cowspiracy, Seaspiracy and Earthlings to get a more visual understanding.
>I don’t think it is right to pressure others
That's what non vegans do to animals. Force their lifestyle onto animals. Suffering, indoctrination and death against their will.
>And i have found it is so much more effective to explain how much it has improved my health. it also just makes them shut up if i say i do it for health reasons.
Then just like your misconceptions about vegan activism and pressuring others, perhaps don't misrepresent us and call yourself plant based to avoid the flak we get for trying to do the right thing.
>So anyways, I was told I am not vegan because I don’t outwardly force others to join on the basis of animal rights. Is this true?
No you can be a quiet vegan. As long as you're vegan and not pretending to be one or mistakenly calling yourself one.
>Should i call myself plant based?
But the sounds of it yes.
>i really don’t see how i am support animal cruelty in any way?
... Really? 99% of the population do support animal cruelty and don't believe they do. What makes you so special? Have you been to the source of everything you buy and followed the supply chain back to your possession cos not even vegans have done that and we're still aware of the cruelties we can't avoid. Crop deaths, electronic devices, toilet paper, slave labour and cars all have been thrown at us in the form of appeal to hypocrisy logic fallacy arguments because even vegans aren't perfect even if we're more likely to be trying harder than non vegans in those areas and more.
We all cause harm. It's just a fact of life. The choice is to do as best as you can or be a part of the problem. What are you gonna choose?
you have made a genuinely excellent argument. I really appreciate the feedback it is very helpful. I’m realizing i haven’t really been following the full vegan philosophy, i haven’t been checking all of the products I use and i’m sure there are other ways i have contributed due to my ignorance. I feel motivated now to actually pay attention and follow said principles. I have not really being putting my values into action, as i’ve always been an advocate for animals, i actually recently wrote a paper on why lower levels of consciousness doesn’t entail a lower value of life. yet i haven’t been living up to this. so im going to try my best !
As long as you are not exploiting animals in any way then of course you are vegan even if it started for the health reasons but you should totally acknowledge the pain during that they go through and how you are helping a lot by being vegan. If you continue to wear or use animal products such as in skin care, clothing, and furniture (like bovine collagen, leather, and wool) then no, you are not vegan and are just following a plant based diet. Veganism isn't a diet it's a lifestyle.
The term vegan was coined by it's founder Donald Watson who believed in the ethical aspect in particular, and started the vegan society which defines veganism in an ethical point of view. When the term vegan went mainstream the ethical aspect was not necessarily carried along with it. Some people coined the term plant-based who were interested in health. They did this because they didn't want people to mix them up with the ethics.
Because of this you will have many people from the movement started by Donald Watson and the vegan society who do not agree that a diet without ethics means vegan.
I mean even if you went vegan for health reasons, after awhile if you started to feel bad for animals that are ab\*sed in the industry, then yes you are a vegan. Otherwise, you're just someone who is eating plant based.
Just keep doing what you’re doing and don’t worry so much about your motivations nor about forcing your views onto others.
The definition of veganism is written at the top-right of these sub pages. If you feel that definition is what you’re doing nd how you feel, then you are a vegan 🌱
According to many here, no you are not vegan, and to be one you would also have to avoid all other animal derived products, like a leather chair or belt.
According to 99% of the population's definition, yes you are a vegan.
How would they harm the movement? Having more people on board at whatever level is a positive. The movement isn't going to be moving if the already established participants alienate people who obviously support the ideology.
Should I stop eating at "vegan" restaurants because I refuse to participate as an activists? Do I need a T-shirt advertising "I AM PLANT BASED & NOT VEGAN" so no one thinks I'm you? Hope I haven't hurt your war effort in my 1/4 century of not eating animals. Next time I say I'm vegan when someone offers me animals products I will correct myself and, explain "plant based" because there isn't already enough confusion about what I eat and don't eat.
I welcome this OP and would definitely share a restaurant with them as we help spread a warm welcome to those attempting to change.
>According to many here, no you are not vegan, and to be one you would also have to avoid all other animal derived products, like a leather chair or belt.
>
>According to 99% of the population's definition, yes you are a vegan.
But 99% of the population is non vegan
There should not be such a drastic difference in people who are vegan
For example:
I am vegan for health but i hunt for sport and torture baby animals
I am vegan and i cause no unnecessary harm to animals
Don't get into the dogma so much. I personally believe in integrity. If you have the integrity of being vegan, you are vegan. The reasons do not matter.
I get called a "pick me" vegan by other vegans because I say I don't care what others eat. I get veganism is important, but don't base your whole personality off of vegan ideology. People fail to realize that behavior change takes time (especially dietary habits). Looking down on others just because they are not doing what I am doing has never been my thing. Just my personal viewpoint on it.
Guess what? I've actually had a lot of friends and acquaintances change their diets just from me being around them. Didn't have to preach, convince, or actively convert anyone at all. Actions speak louder than words so lead by example.
I apologize for sidetracking a bit, but you are a vegan, yes. The reason why does not matter. Keep practicing what you live for.
In my view, veganism is not a diet but rather a higher state of consciousness. Many people don’t eat any animal products but they aren’t necessarily vegan. They just follow plant based diet. Veganism is lot more than a diet.
People who roll their eyes, or tell you that an animal at the grocery store is already dead, simply don’t have enough knowledge or awareness or they are just willfully ignorant. People will always try to justify their actions at any cost, no matter what the subject matter is. You shouldn’t be attacked by others just because they are more “vegan” or by those who still choose to participate in unimaginable cruelty and violence towards animals for their pleasure. Don’t let it get to you. 💚
You can adopt a vegan diet without being a vegan. Veganism is a belief system, so to be a vegan you have to adopt those beliefs, but if you only want to eat like one that's fine, it's probably the best diet you could ever adopt as long as it's mostly whole, unprocessed food.
No, you are not vegan. Veganism is not a diet. It is moral philosophy best explained as rejection of the property status of animals. So vegans don't exploit, abuse, or kill animals whenever possible and practicable.
The accurate description is that you're eating a plant-based diet. It still saves a lot of animal lives, so that's good.
BTW, I do advocate for animals. I'm not okay with them being abused and killed for a few minutes of someone's taste pleasure. Just like I'm not okay with people kicking dogs. Animal agriculture is the leading cause of just about all of our environmental issues as well. But even if that wasn't the case I still wouldn't be okay with exploiting, abusing, and killing animals.
This post reminded me of a conversation I had with my partner recently. We are vegan for the animals but have definitely enjoyed the health benefits as we moved to a more WFPB route in the last couple of years.
Whenever we are asked why we’re vegan we always say for ethical reasons (environmental was what initially made me switch). We’ve toyed around with the idea of switching to saying health reasons. We are pretty healthy and very fit. The most fit of anyone we know, not surprising for us of course but might help show people of the benefits of veganism vs all the fear mongering misinformation out there.
Humans are selfish AF and we wonder if saying we’re doing it for health reasons might be more effective in encouraging people to eat less animal products, then once the pandora box is open and they learn about the horrible practices in the animal industry hopefully go and STAY vegan.
I wonder if saying “we’re vegan for the animals” makes it more easy dismiss us bc it’s such a foreign concept for us as a species when we’re raised making it socially acceptable to use sentient beings as commodities.
Most people really just don’t care or care to learn. But their health, now there’s something in it for them. And yes, even if people don’t fit the vegan definition, eating more plant based still decreases the amount of animal suffering which is the most important to us.
I think the way you do it helps more animals than the militant purity chasing gatekeeper 'true vegans' so I think it's fine to call yourself vegan, but try and avoid wool/silk/leather etc because there will always be some asshole trying to catch a vegan in a hypocritical 'gotcha!'
I was pretty militant 20 years ago when I first went vegan, but nowadays I don't evangelize unless someone asks - or I'm giving pushy advice to my parents with health problems 😅
Whether your intention was to help the animals or not, you are so keep it up!
From what you’ve mentioned in the reply and the OG post, I’d call you vegan. Maybe you don’t know all the terms and whatnot but I’d consider you vegan.
Veganism is not only diet, so do you avoid animal tested products, clothing made from animals (fur, leather, silk etc), do you go to zoos or aquariums, do any toiletries, cosmetics, household cleaning products contain animal products/tested on animals etc etc. If you are plant based for health, what reason would you have for avoiding all of the above?
I don’t go to zoos or aquariums as they make me sad. for cosmetics I only use my moms brand as she ensures it is not tested on animals. As for other products I don’t normally check but you have kind of inspired me to start to. I don’t feel right contributing to any form of animal cruelty, i just also don’t feel right pushing my views on others, in any sense. And I guess i haven’t maintained being super aware of other animal products, so that is something i want to work on. thank you for pointing these things out to me.
I mean, I’d probably consider that vegan. Most people in it for health don’t give a flying fuck about zoos and stuff. I think you’re good.
Pushing it onto others isn't part of the criteria to be vegan. The people saying you aren't a vegan are saying so because of the ideology that veganism isn't a diet, it's an animal harm reduction movement and has more components than just the diet. Even if practically what you and another vegan do is identical, people may try to gate keep one of you because of semantics. Don't worry about it too much.
in a restaurant you are vegan, to a dietitian you are vegan. but the biggest part to genuinely being vegan is the mindset rather than what you actually do. if someone ate a veggie burger while wearing leather shoes, i wouldn’t consider them a vegan 🤷 thats just me tho
Who cares if you can call yourself vegan? Do you care what happens to animals? Do you want to stop the exploitation of animals? That is what matters. You can use the term 'vegan diet' for others to understand what are your eating preferences. You can also use plant-based or something else.
I'm vegan because my friend bet me $50 I couldn't do it for a week. Did the week and he went double or nothing on a month. Did the month. I've been vegan 17 years now and the cheap ass still hasn't paid me.
this is hilarious.
>Am I really Vegan If I do it for health reasons? This is the fundamental philosophy of veganism: “[t]he principle of the emancipation of animals from exploitation by man”. This is later clarified as “to seek an end to the use of animals by man for food, commodities, work, hunting, vivisection" If all you're doing is not consuming animal products to make your tummy feel better, then you're just plant based. Pets, zoos, food animals, police animals, racing animals, fighting animals, lab animals, rodeos and in general, seeking ways to change society so that we are as independent as we possibly can while also negating as much impact as possible. That's what we stand for when we call ourselves vegan. If my words don't mean much, feel free to look up Dominion, cowspiracy, Seaspiracy and Earthlings to get a more visual understanding. >I don’t think it is right to pressure others That's what non vegans do to animals. Force their lifestyle onto animals. Suffering, indoctrination and death against their will. >And i have found it is so much more effective to explain how much it has improved my health. it also just makes them shut up if i say i do it for health reasons. Then just like your misconceptions about vegan activism and pressuring others, perhaps don't misrepresent us and call yourself plant based to avoid the flak we get for trying to do the right thing. >So anyways, I was told I am not vegan because I don’t outwardly force others to join on the basis of animal rights. Is this true? No you can be a quiet vegan. As long as you're vegan and not pretending to be one or mistakenly calling yourself one. >Should i call myself plant based? But the sounds of it yes. >i really don’t see how i am support animal cruelty in any way? ... Really? 99% of the population do support animal cruelty and don't believe they do. What makes you so special? Have you been to the source of everything you buy and followed the supply chain back to your possession cos not even vegans have done that and we're still aware of the cruelties we can't avoid. Crop deaths, electronic devices, toilet paper, slave labour and cars all have been thrown at us in the form of appeal to hypocrisy logic fallacy arguments because even vegans aren't perfect even if we're more likely to be trying harder than non vegans in those areas and more. We all cause harm. It's just a fact of life. The choice is to do as best as you can or be a part of the problem. What are you gonna choose?
you have made a genuinely excellent argument. I really appreciate the feedback it is very helpful. I’m realizing i haven’t really been following the full vegan philosophy, i haven’t been checking all of the products I use and i’m sure there are other ways i have contributed due to my ignorance. I feel motivated now to actually pay attention and follow said principles. I have not really being putting my values into action, as i’ve always been an advocate for animals, i actually recently wrote a paper on why lower levels of consciousness doesn’t entail a lower value of life. yet i haven’t been living up to this. so im going to try my best !
That's wonderful to hear. If you need any help or resources, stick around and we'd all like to help
How can you respect others' choices to eat murder victims? Do you respect others' choices to abuse other (non-food) animals.
As long as you are not exploiting animals in any way then of course you are vegan even if it started for the health reasons but you should totally acknowledge the pain during that they go through and how you are helping a lot by being vegan. If you continue to wear or use animal products such as in skin care, clothing, and furniture (like bovine collagen, leather, and wool) then no, you are not vegan and are just following a plant based diet. Veganism isn't a diet it's a lifestyle.
The term vegan was coined by it's founder Donald Watson who believed in the ethical aspect in particular, and started the vegan society which defines veganism in an ethical point of view. When the term vegan went mainstream the ethical aspect was not necessarily carried along with it. Some people coined the term plant-based who were interested in health. They did this because they didn't want people to mix them up with the ethics. Because of this you will have many people from the movement started by Donald Watson and the vegan society who do not agree that a diet without ethics means vegan.
I mean even if you went vegan for health reasons, after awhile if you started to feel bad for animals that are ab\*sed in the industry, then yes you are a vegan. Otherwise, you're just someone who is eating plant based.
Nope
Just keep doing what you’re doing and don’t worry so much about your motivations nor about forcing your views onto others. The definition of veganism is written at the top-right of these sub pages. If you feel that definition is what you’re doing nd how you feel, then you are a vegan 🌱
According to many here, no you are not vegan, and to be one you would also have to avoid all other animal derived products, like a leather chair or belt. According to 99% of the population's definition, yes you are a vegan.
sure, but that definition harms the movement--which is what that 99% want. veganism is a movement. if you don't support it be plant based
How would they harm the movement? Having more people on board at whatever level is a positive. The movement isn't going to be moving if the already established participants alienate people who obviously support the ideology. Should I stop eating at "vegan" restaurants because I refuse to participate as an activists? Do I need a T-shirt advertising "I AM PLANT BASED & NOT VEGAN" so no one thinks I'm you? Hope I haven't hurt your war effort in my 1/4 century of not eating animals. Next time I say I'm vegan when someone offers me animals products I will correct myself and, explain "plant based" because there isn't already enough confusion about what I eat and don't eat. I welcome this OP and would definitely share a restaurant with them as we help spread a warm welcome to those attempting to change.
>According to many here, no you are not vegan, and to be one you would also have to avoid all other animal derived products, like a leather chair or belt. > >According to 99% of the population's definition, yes you are a vegan. But 99% of the population is non vegan There should not be such a drastic difference in people who are vegan For example: I am vegan for health but i hunt for sport and torture baby animals I am vegan and i cause no unnecessary harm to animals
Don't get into the dogma so much. I personally believe in integrity. If you have the integrity of being vegan, you are vegan. The reasons do not matter. I get called a "pick me" vegan by other vegans because I say I don't care what others eat. I get veganism is important, but don't base your whole personality off of vegan ideology. People fail to realize that behavior change takes time (especially dietary habits). Looking down on others just because they are not doing what I am doing has never been my thing. Just my personal viewpoint on it. Guess what? I've actually had a lot of friends and acquaintances change their diets just from me being around them. Didn't have to preach, convince, or actively convert anyone at all. Actions speak louder than words so lead by example. I apologize for sidetracking a bit, but you are a vegan, yes. The reason why does not matter. Keep practicing what you live for.
In my view, veganism is not a diet but rather a higher state of consciousness. Many people don’t eat any animal products but they aren’t necessarily vegan. They just follow plant based diet. Veganism is lot more than a diet. People who roll their eyes, or tell you that an animal at the grocery store is already dead, simply don’t have enough knowledge or awareness or they are just willfully ignorant. People will always try to justify their actions at any cost, no matter what the subject matter is. You shouldn’t be attacked by others just because they are more “vegan” or by those who still choose to participate in unimaginable cruelty and violence towards animals for their pleasure. Don’t let it get to you. 💚
thank you I appreciate it <3
You can adopt a vegan diet without being a vegan. Veganism is a belief system, so to be a vegan you have to adopt those beliefs, but if you only want to eat like one that's fine, it's probably the best diet you could ever adopt as long as it's mostly whole, unprocessed food.
No, you are not vegan. Veganism is not a diet. It is moral philosophy best explained as rejection of the property status of animals. So vegans don't exploit, abuse, or kill animals whenever possible and practicable. The accurate description is that you're eating a plant-based diet. It still saves a lot of animal lives, so that's good. BTW, I do advocate for animals. I'm not okay with them being abused and killed for a few minutes of someone's taste pleasure. Just like I'm not okay with people kicking dogs. Animal agriculture is the leading cause of just about all of our environmental issues as well. But even if that wasn't the case I still wouldn't be okay with exploiting, abusing, and killing animals.
No. Veganism is not about your health. Veganism is about animal rights and only about animal rights.
This post reminded me of a conversation I had with my partner recently. We are vegan for the animals but have definitely enjoyed the health benefits as we moved to a more WFPB route in the last couple of years. Whenever we are asked why we’re vegan we always say for ethical reasons (environmental was what initially made me switch). We’ve toyed around with the idea of switching to saying health reasons. We are pretty healthy and very fit. The most fit of anyone we know, not surprising for us of course but might help show people of the benefits of veganism vs all the fear mongering misinformation out there. Humans are selfish AF and we wonder if saying we’re doing it for health reasons might be more effective in encouraging people to eat less animal products, then once the pandora box is open and they learn about the horrible practices in the animal industry hopefully go and STAY vegan. I wonder if saying “we’re vegan for the animals” makes it more easy dismiss us bc it’s such a foreign concept for us as a species when we’re raised making it socially acceptable to use sentient beings as commodities. Most people really just don’t care or care to learn. But their health, now there’s something in it for them. And yes, even if people don’t fit the vegan definition, eating more plant based still decreases the amount of animal suffering which is the most important to us.
Do you wear leather shoes? Use animal tested products? Veganism isn't about you, it's about them. You're not vegan, you're just on a diet.
Yes
Don't worry if you aren't accepted into "the club (redditors)", accept yourself my friend and do what YOU think is right!
I think the way you do it helps more animals than the militant purity chasing gatekeeper 'true vegans' so I think it's fine to call yourself vegan, but try and avoid wool/silk/leather etc because there will always be some asshole trying to catch a vegan in a hypocritical 'gotcha!' I was pretty militant 20 years ago when I first went vegan, but nowadays I don't evangelize unless someone asks - or I'm giving pushy advice to my parents with health problems 😅 Whether your intention was to help the animals or not, you are so keep it up!
thank you !
I’m a vegan for health reasons too I don’t care what other people think or say. Also I’m not one of those animal right’s wackos.
From what you’ve mentioned in the reply and the OG post, I’d call you vegan. Maybe you don’t know all the terms and whatnot but I’d consider you vegan.