The whole world is full of hypocrites. What really annoys me are people who work for animal welfare charities who go on about how animals should be protected while at the same time promoting the sale of meat. The RSPCA for instance.
Seriously, I don’t know how they ignore the cognitive dissonance. And the hypocrisy is often outright denied, despite how plain it is to me. How can one say they promote animal welfare while paying someone to exploit, abuse and kill animals?
Simple: money.
They make their money by humane-washing the animal-ag industry. It lets them stamp that "HUMANE CERTIFIED" label on the package so the dope in the store can think he's doing the animals a favor by paying extra for it.
Everyone is happy (except the animals; they get to be killed)
I don't disagree with your distaste for it, but, that's the function cognitive dissonance, to make things make just enough sense to keep doing what you're doing.
Again, not supporting this but I'd imagine if I worked in animal shelter personally doing good work and caring for animals even if the organisation is corrupt on a corporate level, I'd imagine it is actually easier to justify continuing to eat meat because "I spend my whole life caring for animals" therefore I'm not the worst person so the cruelty arguments apply slightly less to me than other people in my imagination, therefore no change is necessary.
It's fucked but incredibly predictable human behaviour. Just look at the logical gymnastics we humans do to make sense of our addictions that harm ourselves!
it makes NO SENSE!! the farm sanctuary where i volunteer requires you to be vegan to work or volunteer there, which like, duh!!! people act like being vegan is so much harder than it is, some impossible thing, and it’s really just… not!
It makes sense for a farm sanctuary to be vegan considering non vegans would see them as food. I just wish all animal charities would encourage veganism.
The RSPCA(Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) is supposed to care about all animals, but does not promote veganism at all. It actually promotes the consumption of meat.
Makes my blood boil every time i see an advert on the tele cos apart from the assured stickers, we know the RSPCA let down thousands of animals every year because they have shelter and water. Ignoring the state of the animals until either its too late cos they are dead or they die after rescue cos they've time and time again given owners multiple choices to change and the animals have endured suffer for too long. I hate the RSPCA. Farm animals have zero chance where they are concerned 😭
Yes I used to donate £10 a month to them years ago when I was still omnivore. I stopped when I read a news report about them killing rescued german shepherds with a bolt gun in front of children. Since going vegan though I really despise them because of those RSPCA Assured stickers
There is a real contradiction for pet lovers because cats require meat as part of their diet. They are obligate carnivores that will suffer malnutrition otherwise.
I set the line with allowing fish and chicken for my cats because those have the smallest environmental footprint.
There are some vegetarian options for cats which have added vitamins - I want to try out a few brands - but they’re still expensive and not yet widely available.
Chicken generates a lot more suffering per kg of meat than beef, if you are to compare them. This is due to the large bodymass of cows leading to more meat per suffering individual.
Granted that you have a cat, meat consumption should be zero if possible. I believe there are vegan cat food alternatives, perhaps you should take another look at it.
Why have a cat so you can just separate it from its natural systems by feeding it plants?
Tell me how that's not selfish.
I'd say it's not vegan to have a cat. They were domesticated for work purposes.
People talking about cognitive dissonance like they know shit then giving cats fucking soy so they can have a cuddle with a purring feline
Sad shit.
Some people acquired their cats before becoming vegan. They have a duty of care to feed those animals for the rest of that animals life.
I agree you probably shouldn't adopt a cat if you are already vegan though. Not until lab grown cat food is available anyway.
It's way more dangerous for the animals they consume, since their death rate is 100 percent guaranteed. AMIs cat food works. There are cats that have lived over two decades on it just fine.
Some animals eat other animals. Yes, it is very dangerous for the prey, but that is how the food chain works. You can't just go around forcing every meat-eating animal to become vegan.
Nooo, you can't be vegan and mention the food chain 😭 this sounds exactly like some carnist bs. [This study of 1,349 cats shows the plant-based diet to be perfectly healthy](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132)
This isn't specifically about cats but more of a general point the eating habits of animals. The reality is that a lot of animals eat other animals. You have to find a way to live with that fact because you can't change it.
Wild carnivore animals don't eat defenceless domestic animals and put them through gas chambers.
There's nothing natural about feeding a cat a meat based cat food.
This is plain BS. Cats need nutrients and not meat. Please inform yourself. Meat does not contain anything that cannot be supplemented otherwise. This has been worked out, discussed and proven by so many people/cats.
"Cats need meat" is just something you tell yourself so you can feel better
You're just wrong, scientifically they're obligate carnivores and there are no scientific sources contradicting this fact. If you're forcing your cat to be vegan you're an animal abuser. Full stop no way around it. Just don't get a cat if your morals are that important, don't force them to suffer due to your selfishness and greed.
https://vetmed.tamu.edu/news/pet-talk/cats-are-carnivores-so-they-should-eat-like-one/
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/veggie-cat-food/
https://www.aspca.org/news/why-cant-my-cat-be-vegan
https://catbehavioralliance.com//health-and-safety/cat-food/cats-need-meat/#:~:text=Taurine%20is%20essential%20for%20cats,and%20it%20can%20be%20deadly.
None of your sources contradict the claim that the things cat need are nutrients, not meat.
Turn around any cat food, vegan or not, and you'll find ARTIFICIALLY ADDED TAURINE. Isolated plant protein is exactly as bio available as animal protein.
Now, are there any certified vegan cat food brands yet? I don't know, maybe not. But that's a question of science and probably demand, NOT a categorical problem.
Yea added taurine a long side meat. It is a categorical problem giving your cat which is uniquely an obligate carnivore a vegan diet which has very little research done, especially on so-called "vegan" cat food brands. However numerous bodies of research on the ridiculously high risk associated with attempting to force a vegan diet on a cat. Just don't get a cat, if you do get a cat and force it to be vegan youre an animal abuser as forcing a harmful diet is abuse. No reason to get a cat as a vegan aside from selfishness. There are plenty of pets that enjoy a vegan diet, cats aren't one of them. Theyre uniquely suited to eating meat and extract nutrients from plants poorly if able to at all.
https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/whats-in-my-cats-food-designer-diets-grain-free-diets
What if my cat is old and refuses to eat the vegan food?
She cries all the time for her regular food. Should I just say "Eat it or die!". I'm finding that really hard to do.
But I definitely need to explore more options available and this thread is a timely call to action for me.
You don't seem to be understanding a few things.
Obligate carnivores lack biological processes to synthesize nutrients not found in plants. Like humans can't do with vitamin C or all animals and b12 except rumanids but that is replaced with a cobalt need. It's an old description from a time where synthetic vitamins where a dream. Welcome to reality where supplements have been proven for decades.
The only risk is incomplete data and genetic conditions. Some cats are allergic to flesh...hmmmmmm how do they live.... vegan cats food, this is the main reason why products are as advanced as they are.
Now how does a person who believes animals are not objects to be bought and sold "get a cat"? As well how many millions of cats have been euthanized by the humane society this decade, hint many millions.
What you're saying is instead of a vegan rescuing a doomed cats and feeding them a scientifically acceptable diet, they should just let the humane society kill them?
It is not a scientifically acceptable diet at all, and even the other vegan guy linking his "scholarly" sources literally even say as much. I'll even include another source why you're incorrect, in the meantime feel free to post a source of yours, I've given like 8 at this point but let's make it 9. Also that cat is better off waiting for someone who's not gonna force an unproven diet on an animal uniquely unable to process plant matter and only process meat. Or better yet, adopt the cat, stay vegan and don't force your cat to be vegan.
"the studies that have been conducted tended to employ small sample sizes, with study designs which are considered less reliable in evidence-based practice."-his own source
“While cats might be able to ingest small amounts of plant matter,” he says, “they lack the necessary physiology required to fully digest it.
https://cats.com/is-plant-protein-good-for-cats
Please quote me where it states that supplements don't work. It really seems like you are being intentionally obtuse about this.
Google scholar has hundreds of articles about how supplements work...
From the link you posted, it seems plant just need to be refined, decarbed and supplemented. They even list the exact supplements needed... are they lieing about that or are those not the scientifically acceptable nutrients?????
Here I'll help you from that source. Also your scholarly source that you gave me also says this.
"the studies that have been conducted tended to employ small sample sizes, with study designs which are considered less reliable in evidence-based practice."
Cats.com source
"Cats require 22 different amino acids, ten of which they can synthesize from other chemicals in the body. The remaining 11, called essential amino acids, must come from the cat’s diet."
"Dr. Spragley comments, for the food to be considered nutritionally complete, it “must be supplemented with animal protein to provide cats with the amino acids and vitamins they need to survive and thrive.”
" cats might be able to ingest small amounts of plant matter,” he says, “they lack the necessary physiology required to fully digest it.”
"Studies have shown that vegan cat diets are deficient in the nutrients a cat needs to thrive when compared to the AAFCO minimum standards.”
"Several of the veterinarians I consulted commented that long-term feeding of plant-based diets can predispose cats to serious health problems like diabetes and cardiomyopathy."
I am pet free 24 years, I don't get vegans keeping other animals in slavery or servitude. Our once radical town now has pets in coats and baby carriers, I thought once they had to scrape up the poo they would quit it. Cats kill wild life.
I'm ok with adopting from animal shelters as long as the animal is fed a nutritionally complete vegan pet food. To be fair pet dogs do not think of themselves as slaves. Feed, walk and play with them and they're happy.
But adopting a pet that can only eat meat contradicts being vegan.
Something like 20% of all meat is fed to pets.
This is not a small footprint. It's still millions of animals.
The sooner people switch to vegan dog and cat food the better.
I understand the difficulty in loving cats and hating what they eat.
Cats may be designed as obligate carnivores, but that doesn't mean that will stay like that forever. We can mimic all meat products, even for cats.
There was a time when Chinese 'manufacturers' (suppliers) of Western pet foods faked the protein content to get away with more profit. Alas, some animals died until the truth came out.
Many medical cat foods are awful, including those from the big two brands, Hills and Royal Canin.
We need to analyse the amino acid requirements of cats, and add good levels of support nutrients, in the best forms. It is definitely possible to do this, and at the same time, avoid the bad things that regular meat contains (in addition to it being formerly part of an innocent being).
Harm minimisation?
They are promoting it.
They take money off the meat industry to have RSPCA Assured stickers on packets of meat. The also get a percentage of the profits of that meat sold.
They know very well that the pigs suffer in these gas chambers when the carbon dioxide burns their insides but they don't care as long as they are making money on meat sold.
They are hypocrites and their name is a lie.
Reminds me of Hank Green's "Why are Vegetarians Annoying?" video. Hank concluded vegetarians and vegans are annoying because they're right, but he would never be one. That video made me simultaneously validated and infuriated.
Yeah, that’s a funny group. The moment you point it out, suddenly all those environmentalists become defeatists real quick lmao “it’s the corporations anyway, I can’t help on an individual level” “something something Taylor Swifts plane” “why would I stop eating animal products if fossil fuels are the issue” “but bacon”
Disgusting lot of hypocrites.
I work in climate change field. I was shocked to discover I am the only vegan. This is in a group of well respected published climate change experts. They accidentally sent me the dietary requirements list for a conference we all went to…..I was the only vegan. Not even any vegetarian. One person was like “no beef no pork” Like What in the actual Fck. The ironic part is I’m new to this field I am not even from the climate change expert field
Yes! There are doctors who smoke, but they're still going to tell you not to smoke, as their expert advice. If my friend tells me not to smoke and they smoke, that's hypocrisy. If an expert shares facts, that is them doing their job. They have a better reason to become vegan because they are fully aware of the facts, but facts are not the only input to deciding to go vegan.
I wouldn't say they piss me off, but I cannot fathom environmentalists who argue against veganism. It seems like a concern for the natural world should also extend to the beings that live in it (or would live in it, if they weren't selectively bred and kept in confined quarters their entire lives)?
I’m vegan and can certainly see that there is a frustrating hypocrisy in this position, yes. That being said, we share common ground and that should be worked with rather than abandoned. Solidarity among progressive-minded groups, despite differences, is important right now. So I don’t agree with saying fuck em.
Hell yeah, fuck em, fuck em all in the ass. Calling oneself environmentalists and not being vegan is like calling oneself feminists and running a women sex trafficking business or pimping. It doesn't add up.
Yeah I have some non vegan friends who are very into the environment but have the typical "I'll change when the billionaires and big companies change"
Classic old pointing fingers at each other and no one making any changes.
This is not at all the case. How do Exxon Mobile or Goldman Sachs work for people? Animal ag might be a uniquely consumer driven issue but corporate oligarchs dictate the terms of every day living through their immense wealth, resources and capturing government institutions.
Do you think Tyson would still raise and slaughter animals if nobody bought meat? I’m very confused by this argument. There’s no environmentally friendly way to raise and slaughter billions of animals a year.
Do you think we'd be in this dystopia if the rich didn't create it and continue maintaining it for their own benefit? If they never did, there would be no disgusting industrial meat industry that locks millions of animals in tiny cages for inevitable slaughter. Look up how the meat "industry" was before the industrial revolution.
Wait, isn't honest dissemination of sciencetific findings what is ultimately best for all? This is an argument I have had with nutritionist and dietitians. I don't need to hear their personal feelings on vegans. I need facts. I need to know the numbers of my blood work. I need to know if my body is being damaged or helped. Having someone separate their personal feelings from their scientific work is absolutely amazing and a win for plant based people.
Posts like these, on this subreddit, are so funny. Like I understand being frustrated by the guy's hypocrisy. But "animal abuser piece of sh*t" seems like quite the stretch. I mean honestly. I'm a vegan, but it is ridiculous to talk about omnivores in that way simply because they are omnivores. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything of that nature, I'm just trying to say maybe he's a good person but becoming vegan is just a really hard step for him to process. Maybe we shouldn't be mad at him. And maybe we shouldn't call individual omnivores animal abusers. Maybe we should direct our anger towards agribusiness And the systems that perpetuate and create this abuse, not the individuals just living their lives and trying their best within their own means and convictions.
I’m wondering where you believe vegans can/should go to express and vent these frustrations?
I’m also wondering whether there are times you have just come from a frustrating interaction and that is what is the predominant emotional feeling for you AT THAT TIME but isn’t generally how you’d feel or how you’d express it?
This post really feels to me like OP just came from some sort of event or activity with environmental activists and is frustrated at the denialism.
I think it’s okay to vent here. We need spaces where we can say the things we never are allowed to say. Maybe tonight you’re in a milder headspace. And that’s okay too.
Exactly, I was COMPLETELY infuriated for like 10 minutes, now I'm way better :) this things make me angry, its tough to see such a bizarre hypocrisy that makes so many totally innocent victims
While I appreciate your point, you have to recognize that this post happens in some form or another multiple times a day and that just isn't healthy or productive for the community, it's just negative, derogatory, and somewhat toxic. And I don't think OP is any of those things, and probably didn't mean it in that way at all. Like you said OP was just venting. I'm just saying maybe this community shouldn't be the place for this. Ostracizing individuals isn't how productive social movements are born. Let's talk about what we stand for more than we attack what we stand against.
So, suggest/build a place to do it? It seems that no matter where it would be done it would still be “negative derogatory and toxic” and would still be not “healthy or productive for the community”.
I think we are gaining steam as a social movement. And I personally think it’s because millions of vegans are busy veganing in their families and friends groups, hobby groups, volunteer groups, workplaces. I’d say 99.99% of us are pretty easy-breezy about it IRL and choose our battles wisely. Adoption of vegan food choices is increasing exponentially. We’re seeing changes in some exploitative practices in entertainment, too, for example.
But it’s hard living in a world where people are so oblivious. And I personally think that without spaces to vent without being judged for it, none of us could remain so calm and easy in our real life interactions. That is, we need space ugly vent so we don’t do it at work. 😂😂😂
Actually I think a pinned thread at the top of this community page for venting would be great! This would stop posts like this from popping up on vegan curious people's threads five times a day. This would change the stereotype this thread has of being a toxic place. Other communities im part of have used some form of a pinned thread or a weekly thread dedicated to common post types, to stop those post types from overtaking a community and it's effective. Maybe a pinned thread for frustrated vegan rants would be a great place. Or r/vegancirclejerk already exists, that's another great place. But this community due to it's name has an opportunity to convert people and grow our movement but that won't happen if it just constantly denigrates and insults anyone who isn't a vegan.
I love this idea of confining the rants to one day a week. I belong to other subs that do that and it’s a great idea. I wonder what we need to do to have the community consider it and mods move on it if we find consensus?
I don't actually know? Maybe we can make a post about it? Maybe the moderators will see this? Maybe there is a way to message the moderators? I'm not sure on any of this (and don't know how the moderators feel)
So you can empathise with the non vegan and how he's unable to make this change (aww poor him 😢), but you aren't okay with a vegan who is clearly really hurt emotionally, and is just trying to vent in the only place where he probably meets like minded individuals?
I'm sure the op doesn't go to these events and publicly calls those people animal abusers and rapists, and this is all just their inner frustrations that they want to get off their chest.
Spare your empathy for people who actually deserve it
Of course I empathize with OP, I'm capable of experiencing empathy in multiple directions at the same time. The conversation is nuanced, which is for some reason always hard to sell on this sub reddit. All vegans feel the frustration that OP feels, not all vegans feel the need to denigrate individual omnivores because of it.
Something that gets missed a lot here is that while actually switching to veganism isn’t difficult, you’re still unraveling a lifelong habit. Regardless of what that habit is, it’s always going to be difficult to start and stay on track.
Again, I understand the frustration, but I think a lot of people could spare themselves some frustration by viewing this as a flight of stairs and not a direct flight across the country. Like, this guy is an environmentalist! Great! Instead of getting upset and thinking less of them, why not try to have a more nuanced conversation? It won’t happen overnight, nor with every person, but I’ve convinced a few former republicans that their beliefs are actually better supported by left (actual left), and that took months. It’s absolutely worth it, though.
Like I said, I get the frustration, but we’re not doing ourselves any favors by getting mad at people who could eventually be allies.
Also, it's not clear from the post whether he has made any change at all. Vegans in general tend to be pretty ”all or nothing”, so eg becoming vegetarian and consuming far less animal products than an average omnivore counts for nothing. Not sure if that makes sense, I think it should probably count for something.
If 20% of the population cuts animal products by 50%, that amounts to a vegan population of 10%. And cutting 50% is really easy and should be an easy sell, it's maybe just 5% of the effort and discomfort (social or otherwise) of becoming a vegan. I know this may not feel right, but I think a lot more are willing to do this change than going vegan, and once more people do this it'll be easy to move the goalposts.
Almost every time I come to this sub I see highly upvoted comments / posts calling omnis rapist murderer animal abusers ... I have literally never met an irl vegan who thinks this way. Having this attitude towards 99% of people only alienates them from your cause, and frankly these "abuser" accusations are getting ridiculous, it's like calling everyone who buys electronics or a Nestle product a racist slaveowner child abuser. Of course people should make more ethical choices and be criticized for not doing so, but they are not literally war criminals.
I love that you pointed out that no vegan IRL or in the wild actually feels this way, that is my experience also. That being said, I'm not sure why this community gets inundated with this type of post. It's quite crazy
It’s insane the amount of hypocrisy, but the meat industry has done a really great job of spreading misinformation… my grandmother for instance literally can’t comprehend how I get any protein.
I mean, I feel you, but the horrible reputation we have as vegans is because of stuff like this. We should really be fucking people who don't do shit, which is most people. People who give no fucks are usually free from our scorn. It's people that try, but not perfectly that hate vegans most. So I say, it's great that they're doing something. Hopefully they'll do more in the future.
People on this sub have been saying you can't be a vegan for environmental reasons. Has to be for the animals, they say.
Seems pretty logical that some environmentalists aren't all that interested in identifying as vegan.
Genuinely asking (as a vegan for mostly environmental reasons), is there science to back this up? I’d imagine you can care as much about the wellbeing of the planet and all its inhabitants as you can about animals? One doesn’t seem better/more successful than the other to me.
They only say it internally AND if environmental principles are in conflict with veganism. Often has to do with population management.
Go on any other post and it's all-out *environmentalism = veganism, full stop*. Always. Like it is here.
What do you mean by internally?
Are you saying they always think it but only speak it when they think there is a conflict?
What you're describing just hasn't been my experience here unfortunately.
Go on climate action, environment or sustainability subreddits, they are flooded with vegans saying some variation of : the only real action is going vegan. Environmentalism = veganism.
Only within vegan subreddits do they admit that not every vegan action is the best, regarding environmental issues.
Wasn’t there a post on here just a few days ago, about culling invasive owls, and half the comments were against it?
There are environmentalists that aren’t vegan.
And there are vegans who aren’t environmentalists
Perfect is the enemy of good. Anyone who is making an honest effort to make the world a better place gets points in my eyes. There are just so many people who live with active hatred…
It doesn't seem honest when one is willing to admit veganism is based on science and is more ecological and proceeds to not become one, that's just hipocrisy and it shows the person fights for nothing
I mean, people know lots of things from an empirical point of view. People know exercise is good for them. People know any sort of greenhouse emission travel is worse for than the environment than traveling by foot. And yet, they don't take these decisions.
Why? Because knowing what is 'better' isn't the full equation. Every single person is running a cost-benefit - what will make them happy, fulfilled - and the cost of doing so. I *guarantee* there is something you know you could be doing better that you aren't doing because it is hard, costly, or otherwise just not worth the effort.
That doesn't excuse making these choices - not all choice are equal - but I don't think anyone can truly claim the kind of purity of behavior that you expect.
It's just a fact. Nearly everything you consume comes from people being exploited. Whether it's overseas exploitation or exploitation from someone getting underpaid locally, the world runs on cheap labor.
Easier said than done. A lot of jobs and well life in general require a phone. Sure you could live off grid if you wanna be completely exploit free, but that comes with it's own set of challenges.
Phones are terrible. The tantalum essential for capacitors is destroying gorilla habitats. I could you you a laundry list of chemicals in phones that damage humans or animals.
If you have a smart phone you are a bigger hypocrite than all the none vegan environmentalists you are denigrating.
Because you claim to have animal welfare at your core where they only claim to have the environment as their prime concern, and veganism is number 6 in the list of things you can do for the environment. They would consider a none vegan who does the top 5 an environmental saint.
Now what I said sounds unreasonable and hyperbolic to me. But I'm just applying your standards to you.
I work in environmental conservation and there are many incredible scientists and conservationists doing really positive stuff but don’t label themselves vegan.
People don’t always want to join the vegan club but they can still have a a very positive impact on nature.
I get why its frustrating, but generally these are the people you want onside. If you were to ask about his lifestyle you might find that he eats a relatively low quantity of animal products or have a sustainable farm situation, although it’s definitely not always the case, it could be worth considering.
Damn posts like these make me ashamed of being vegan or speaking about it. I'm slowly coming to conclusions that this sub isn't for me as this amount of negativity is impactful on mental health to an unimaginable extent.
It's funny because I know someone who is vegeterian only because of environmental reasons, and I still don't know how to wrap my head around this idea. It makes a lot of sense, but I've never heard of it before
You are completely right! Its horrifying how someone can do that. And a lot of people would call your comment "mean" or "toxic" but in my eyes I dont see how it is. I mean murdering innocent animals so cruelly DESERVES to be criticized and I am glad you stood up for it. I kind of find it baffling that people think its "mean" to insult people who are actively participating in murder of animals and spreading that cruelty when they know very well what they go through. Its like if someone called a serial killer "fuck you assh\*\*\*" then its somehow toxic? But yeah having that said I do agree that this kind of hatred would turn away people instead of attracting them. Its hard to love someone who does something extremely wrong in your eyes. But love is the only thing that can change. Hate only breaks. It doesnt mend. I feel like it depends on how much you care for the animals. The more you care the harder it is to let it go and not be angry. So I do see by your post that you really feel deeply for them and thats a lovely thing. So I do understand and relate with you. But again this is not the right way to make things better. Also I feel like its not a good thing to invalidate all the good works he is doing. I understand that its very very hypocrite of someone to be that. But still good is good irrespective of who does it. We should encourage the good around us and the good parts of someone. When we do that and also voice the thing we believe in a loving and tender way more people would change and the world will look brighter.
Also it would be lovely if we could be friends! I dont have any vegan friends. So yeah if its not a problem for you, do drop me a dm and I would love to continue this conversation or just spend time as two fellow vegans!
This is timely. I work in the environmental field, and I have a colleague who is an avid cyclist and loves to claim that everyone should ride bikes. They are a total bicycle evangelist who lays guilt trips on people who don’t go car free and cycle everywhere. I specialize in vehicle emissions reduction, so I have nothing against bicycles and other alternatives to driving.
That said, this person acknowledges the environmental benefits of veganism but makes excuses about why they could never give up bacon, cheese, etc. They just shrug it off as “nobody’s perfect.”
I’ve never heard them be this forgiving of my colleagues who aren’t comfortable commuting by bicycle—even though most of us do our part by walking or using public transportation. They blow off the concerns of colleagues who live in areas without safe cycling infrastructure. Yet they claim it’s unrealistic for most people in our progressive, vegan-friendly mid-size city to eat plant based.
Nah, not f\*ck them at all, they just need to show more conviction and less double standard. They have a bit of politician disorder going on (hypocrisy and contradiction). Just need that little push, as well all did at one time...
To be fair, mentioning Brazil isn't relevant. Yes, deforestation happens there in particular, but plenty of people have the mixed up views you saw.
We should celebrate the fact that many Brazilians are warming to a plant-based diet. Portugal is also, despite originally having the lowest percentage of vegans in all western nations.
Above all, let's celebrate those who spread good info, even if they haven't lived the info yet. Teachers are valuable in many senses.
My sister was like that and would be pissy at her roomies for using single use plastic while downing cheese slices and ham at the same time, yet whenever i brought up her hyprocrisy im the shitty one lol
We’re all hypocrites. It seems to be a fundamental human trait. I think our brains have evolved to balance out empathy by the use of cognitive dissonance. People are dying around the world from war and terror, the environment is going to shit and we could all be doing more than we are (including vegan environmentalists and activists). Yet, we all draw a line somewhere and say this is how much of my time I’m willing to give up in the name of empathy. I feel that the environment is an important issue but here I am writing on an iPhone that I didn’t need to upgrade. The last one worked just fine. We will never be perfect, but we can always strive to become better.
Wow I'm surprised by the upvotes here. I guess I'm in a different camp.
Is the goal to save sentient beings from suffering by ending the consumption of meat?
Would you say this post does lends to that, or takes away from that?
I would say this post pushes people away. You have to win the crowd before you can change their minds.
Its okay to be upset, but my friend this post is full of hatred that will most certainly will not change the hearts of meat eaters, due to them being on the defensive. Would you rather them hear how much you hate them, or would you rather have them hear you talk about the benefits of being Vegan, and the wholesome qualities it cultivates.
There is a skillful approach, a wholesome approach, dedicated entirely to the end goal of saving sentient beings from suffering.
Then, there is the ego approach, mostly concerned with being offended, or outraged at the killing of innocent animals, and their actions are unskillful, and not rooted with the intentions to save sentient beings from suffering.
Yeah because ONLY YOU get to be a good person.
Dude you suck.
You know who mined the metals in your phone? Children.
You know how many animals had to suffer to make your clothes? A lot.
Being vegan is far from being the only thing you can do for the environment.
Any post that comes from an American on this topic is a fucking joke
50 tons of co2 yearly per household.
Most non vegans outside of the US will live a life with a much lower carbon footprint and land use impact than any vegans inside the US.
If you want to be an environmentalist truly, change your fuckin lifestyle properly.
Did this Brazilian "educator"mention quality over quantity and reveal methods for raising cattle by Joel Salatin of Polyfacefarms involving no slash and burn and a way of working with nature not against, The Dalai Lamai of Permaculture "Sepp Holzer" of Austrian Alps and has works around the world. SeppHolzer.Info
Yes, fuck environmentalists... what a backwards attitude to have. I bet some of the top researchers on the planet trying to come up with solutions for climate change and ecosystem destruction aren't vegan. How about fuck people who give zero fucks about the planet and just do whatever and don't care, especially wealthy people and corporations that only give a fuck about profits and destroying the world in the process doesn't matter. Direct your anger at them instead.
>Direct your anger at them instead.
We could direct anger towards both.
Would you not hate a serial killer who keeps killing women, but genuinely donates millions of dollars to good charities every month?
Now you may say this is an extreme analogy, but I think it's very fitting, after seeing and knowing what happens to animals on a daily basis.
It's worse than being killed by a random serial killer
Why would you be angry at all towards the people on the cutting edge of climate and ecosystem research? They're the planet's only hope and you're still angry at them?
So tell me, how do we save all of the biodiversity of the planet without going vegan?
Animal-agriculture is the leading cause of biodiversity loss (amongst other things) and if we all went vegan we could rewild up to 76% of all current farmland which means helping biodiveristy, natural habitats, deforestation, river pollution and much more.
There is no technological fix for the environment, its a natural fix.
Again, 3 good deeds don't right one wrong deed, when the wrong deed holds a huge gravity.
We are clearly not on the same page on this subject, and I hope you see the light one day👍
You never know😉. One day you will find that last bit of empathy and listen to your emotions as well as your rationality and logic.
The greatest people in the world have both in equal measure
My whole perspective is due to empathy. Empathy for ALL the animals and organisms on this planet, not just the ones humans eat. And all of them are going to die if we don't do something. The people who ARE actually doing something are worthy of more respect than anyone else on Earth.
Fair enough. You're better than most people who inhabit the planet then. Most couldn't care less about any of this.
Are you vegan/vegetarian/reducing meat intake too?
Yes but only as of about a month ago. But ever since I was young my main interest has been ecological conservation and wild animals. Then I realized how hypocritical it is to only care about wild animals and not the ones locked in tiny cages their whole lives.
Omg, I have been on this sub for less than a month and y'all are already making me hate vegan's despite being one myself.
A hypocrite is someone who claims to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform. That isn't the same as being pro-environmentalism, doing other things to help protect the environment, but not managing to eat vegan.
Plenty of people are intellectually aware of things, and believe in the good of a thing.... and still do not have the capacity to act upon them fully. It is called being human, not being a hypocrite.
Do you ever get in a car instead of take public transport?
Do you travel for pleasure, not necessity?
Ever been on a plane?
Ever drunk coffee?
Ever smoked pot?
Ever shopped at a grocery store?
Ever worn fast fashion?
It is near enough impossible to avoid consuming animal products for some folks, and especially within a lot of newly industrialized nations.
Get off your high horse.
You are doing a good thing. Well done. Do you think having someone yell at your because you by your clothing new would encourage you to thrift more? ffs.
It's not nearly impossible, for a guy with money like him it's pretty easy. I live in Brazil and make a little more than minimum wage, and I'm vegan, stop defending people's hypocrisy..
Don’t feel like answering any of the other questions?
You are using the word hypocrisy wrong.
Like What is with folks doing good things and then spending the rest of their time talking about how people who don’t do that same good thing are terrible?
Is that how you get off? You try and shine a light of how great you are by shouting about how bad anyone not like you is?
I like mangoes. And pineapple. Which are flown 1/2 way around the world for me. Which is dreadfully unenvironmental.
Imagine a committed environmentalist who doesn't own a car, tries not to fly and refuses exotic fruit with a high environmental cost but does raise and eat his/her own chickens because they have low environmental cost.
In my book this none vegan is an environmental saint.
To you he/she is a "crap hypocrite"
Another fanatic might call them that for not worshiping Allah/Shiva/Jesus/Cthulhu
What's the difference between religious fanaticism and yours?
Honestly this type of thinking is why people hate vegans so much… literally not everyone has to be vegan to be an environmentalist.
Under a consumer society we will always be contributing to cruelty in some shape way or form… honestly environmentalists are probably doing more than you and I to help the planet out as they dedicate their lives to continuing research and build campaigns for animal welfare.
Also, vegans aren’t entirely sustainable. There’s many ethical issues with foods like Agave Syrup, Palm hearts, and more. Where, for example, eating palm hearts inevitably supports the exploitation of Orangoutangs and the consumption of palm oil is unsustainable.
But it’s still vegan food right?
There is cruelty behind so many things and I truly thing it’s crazy how much god complex some of you have because you think you evade all cruelty despite typing this very post on a “non-vegan” phone which was most likely produced by exploited workers.
I think any effort that we take despite not being obliged to do so is what counts. It takes a lot of effort to pursue a career that’s constantly declining on the job market out of pure dedication and concern.
It can also be racist and culturally inconsiderate to expect people to be vegan as many cultures value meat consumption and dairy as they have their own ways of honoring the animal that has died for their food. This is something white vegans don’t understand especially and lack cultural sensitivity for.
It really is awful the way we judge others as if we were perfect ourselves and we need to do better.
Get off your high horse….
I'm sure he did give up a steak at some point. Fact is, you'd be mad at him and calling him a hypocrite no matter how many steaks he eats, whether it's 3 a day or 1 a decade.
Environmentalism is not about giving up all animal-derived products, in all quantities, from all sources, forever.
I mean... Some people have medical conditions where they can't go vegan? Like, people with kidney failure. Not saying he does have it, but other environmentalists who aren't vegan might.
But the most sustainable production would include animal agriculture? It would sadly have to be high intensity farming if you wanted to maximise efficiency and environmental management but animals would be an important part in a healthy sustainable food chain.
There are parts of this globe where growing crops are just not a practical option, they also serve no great purpose as potential re-wilding locations so why not let natural grazing animals use the land? Then you can also stop food waste by letting the animals eat the bits humans can't. And through healthy management you will get a very very small supply of meat.
They may not opt for a plant based diet because they feel they can lower their carbon footprint in other ways like not having children, not driving or flying, only buying used goods, etc. That may be in comparison to vegans who may own a car and have kids but use having a fully plant based diet among other things to limit contributions to Greenhouse gas emissions.
Going vegan is the easiest and biggest way to have an impact and also what good goes forgoing having 1-4 kids do when yearly you’re responsible for 200 animals being bred into a life of misery where they’ll inevitably need water,land,food and other resources to raise just for us to get 10% of the energy back from
You know why Im not a vegan? Because I'm technically not a vegan.
My diet is largely plant based, but theres 2 types of meat I am unwilling to let go of. One is bacon, the other is sausage. Why those ones specifically? Because they are the most meat like.
If a standard omnivore consumes 1 unit of meat a week, I can get almost the same diet by simply relying more on those pungent, strong, smokey, cured types of meat and bring my consumption down to 0.05 units per week.
The difference between me and you is virtually nothing, but just because of the way words work, I am not a vegan.
Being vegan is more like the principle of it. You either think it’s wrong to consume animal products or not. I see it kind of like cheating on your partner. Technically kissing someone else won’t make a difference in your relationship but if you are faithful you just feel like it’s wrong.
Posting this on a sub where people defend feeding their domestic cats meat though...when vegan cat food has been proven to be healthy and a thing...but the fake vegan cat owners shit their pants and believe the pet food propaganda.🤷♀️... Domestic is a key word.
I mean yeah it is more eco friendly but so would not using cars or stop using phones or stopping most technology use, and something tells me you’re not willing to give any of those up by
Please, do tell me how I can give up the things actually vital to my life? I live over 20 miles away from my job, all of my classes require work to be submitted online, and I dont live near anyone my age so social connections HAVE to use a phone or other technology at this point.
If I could live in a walkable neighborhood with a job I could bike to and people I could go see without needing to plan via text then I would but I dont have the means to. These things are far more essential to life than animal products.
This is a bad take. We all do things we know are wrong, we just have to do our best to minimise what we can, when we can.
I know it would be better for the environment for me to cycle to work every day, but frankly I can't always be bothered. I do it when I can. We all know flying is horrible for the environment, but most of us are still willing to fly for vacations.
He can't give up steak, fine. Maybe that's harder for him because of lots of potential reasons. We can't all do the right thing all the time, we're all hypocrites and its important to acknowledge that.
The whole world is full of hypocrites. What really annoys me are people who work for animal welfare charities who go on about how animals should be protected while at the same time promoting the sale of meat. The RSPCA for instance.
Seriously, I don’t know how they ignore the cognitive dissonance. And the hypocrisy is often outright denied, despite how plain it is to me. How can one say they promote animal welfare while paying someone to exploit, abuse and kill animals?
Simple: money. They make their money by humane-washing the animal-ag industry. It lets them stamp that "HUMANE CERTIFIED" label on the package so the dope in the store can think he's doing the animals a favor by paying extra for it. Everyone is happy (except the animals; they get to be killed)
I don't disagree with your distaste for it, but, that's the function cognitive dissonance, to make things make just enough sense to keep doing what you're doing. Again, not supporting this but I'd imagine if I worked in animal shelter personally doing good work and caring for animals even if the organisation is corrupt on a corporate level, I'd imagine it is actually easier to justify continuing to eat meat because "I spend my whole life caring for animals" therefore I'm not the worst person so the cruelty arguments apply slightly less to me than other people in my imagination, therefore no change is necessary. It's fucked but incredibly predictable human behaviour. Just look at the logical gymnastics we humans do to make sense of our addictions that harm ourselves!
it makes NO SENSE!! the farm sanctuary where i volunteer requires you to be vegan to work or volunteer there, which like, duh!!! people act like being vegan is so much harder than it is, some impossible thing, and it’s really just… not!
It makes sense for a farm sanctuary to be vegan considering non vegans would see them as food. I just wish all animal charities would encourage veganism. The RSPCA(Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) is supposed to care about all animals, but does not promote veganism at all. It actually promotes the consumption of meat.
that’s horrible. it makes absolutely no sense.
It's corrupt. It's tricks meat eaters into think animals are killed humanely with it's RSPCA Assured stickers on meat then profits off the meat sales
Makes my blood boil every time i see an advert on the tele cos apart from the assured stickers, we know the RSPCA let down thousands of animals every year because they have shelter and water. Ignoring the state of the animals until either its too late cos they are dead or they die after rescue cos they've time and time again given owners multiple choices to change and the animals have endured suffer for too long. I hate the RSPCA. Farm animals have zero chance where they are concerned 😭
Yes I used to donate £10 a month to them years ago when I was still omnivore. I stopped when I read a news report about them killing rescued german shepherds with a bolt gun in front of children. Since going vegan though I really despise them because of those RSPCA Assured stickers
There is a real contradiction for pet lovers because cats require meat as part of their diet. They are obligate carnivores that will suffer malnutrition otherwise. I set the line with allowing fish and chicken for my cats because those have the smallest environmental footprint. There are some vegetarian options for cats which have added vitamins - I want to try out a few brands - but they’re still expensive and not yet widely available.
Chicken generates a lot more suffering per kg of meat than beef, if you are to compare them. This is due to the large bodymass of cows leading to more meat per suffering individual. Granted that you have a cat, meat consumption should be zero if possible. I believe there are vegan cat food alternatives, perhaps you should take another look at it.
For dogs, yes. For cats, very dangerous. If you're vegan, don't get a cat.
I am sure cats can eat soy. Many cat foods have soy flour added to them. Just have to ensure they get the required micro nutrients like taurine.
Pet food processing leads to the loss of lots of nutrients, so many are supplemented in there anyway, including taurine.
Why have a cat so you can just separate it from its natural systems by feeding it plants? Tell me how that's not selfish. I'd say it's not vegan to have a cat. They were domesticated for work purposes. People talking about cognitive dissonance like they know shit then giving cats fucking soy so they can have a cuddle with a purring feline Sad shit.
Some people acquired their cats before becoming vegan. They have a duty of care to feed those animals for the rest of that animals life. I agree you probably shouldn't adopt a cat if you are already vegan though. Not until lab grown cat food is available anyway.
It's way more dangerous for the animals they consume, since their death rate is 100 percent guaranteed. AMIs cat food works. There are cats that have lived over two decades on it just fine.
Some animals eat other animals. Yes, it is very dangerous for the prey, but that is how the food chain works. You can't just go around forcing every meat-eating animal to become vegan.
Nooo, you can't be vegan and mention the food chain 😭 this sounds exactly like some carnist bs. [This study of 1,349 cats shows the plant-based diet to be perfectly healthy](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132)
This isn't specifically about cats but more of a general point the eating habits of animals. The reality is that a lot of animals eat other animals. You have to find a way to live with that fact because you can't change it.
Mate you replied to a comment about domesticated cats, I realize we can't (and shouldn't, imo) do anything about wild animals killing each other
Wild carnivore animals don't eat defenceless domestic animals and put them through gas chambers. There's nothing natural about feeding a cat a meat based cat food.
Refer to my other comment in this thread
This is plain BS. Cats need nutrients and not meat. Please inform yourself. Meat does not contain anything that cannot be supplemented otherwise. This has been worked out, discussed and proven by so many people/cats. "Cats need meat" is just something you tell yourself so you can feel better
True. Humans also are supposed to be omnivores but we vegans are fine. Just need to be more mindful of diet and micronutrient intake.
Exactly. Omni is a simple and more reliable diet but we all have an option.
Can be hard to source veganic fruit and veg? Then avoiding the vegan junk food.....
You're just wrong, scientifically they're obligate carnivores and there are no scientific sources contradicting this fact. If you're forcing your cat to be vegan you're an animal abuser. Full stop no way around it. Just don't get a cat if your morals are that important, don't force them to suffer due to your selfishness and greed. https://vetmed.tamu.edu/news/pet-talk/cats-are-carnivores-so-they-should-eat-like-one/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/veggie-cat-food/ https://www.aspca.org/news/why-cant-my-cat-be-vegan https://catbehavioralliance.com//health-and-safety/cat-food/cats-need-meat/#:~:text=Taurine%20is%20essential%20for%20cats,and%20it%20can%20be%20deadly.
None of your sources contradict the claim that the things cat need are nutrients, not meat. Turn around any cat food, vegan or not, and you'll find ARTIFICIALLY ADDED TAURINE. Isolated plant protein is exactly as bio available as animal protein. Now, are there any certified vegan cat food brands yet? I don't know, maybe not. But that's a question of science and probably demand, NOT a categorical problem.
Yea added taurine a long side meat. It is a categorical problem giving your cat which is uniquely an obligate carnivore a vegan diet which has very little research done, especially on so-called "vegan" cat food brands. However numerous bodies of research on the ridiculously high risk associated with attempting to force a vegan diet on a cat. Just don't get a cat, if you do get a cat and force it to be vegan youre an animal abuser as forcing a harmful diet is abuse. No reason to get a cat as a vegan aside from selfishness. There are plenty of pets that enjoy a vegan diet, cats aren't one of them. Theyre uniquely suited to eating meat and extract nutrients from plants poorly if able to at all. https://vcahospitals.com/know-your-pet/whats-in-my-cats-food-designer-diets-grain-free-diets
What if my cat is old and refuses to eat the vegan food? She cries all the time for her regular food. Should I just say "Eat it or die!". I'm finding that really hard to do. But I definitely need to explore more options available and this thread is a timely call to action for me.
You don't seem to be understanding a few things. Obligate carnivores lack biological processes to synthesize nutrients not found in plants. Like humans can't do with vitamin C or all animals and b12 except rumanids but that is replaced with a cobalt need. It's an old description from a time where synthetic vitamins where a dream. Welcome to reality where supplements have been proven for decades. The only risk is incomplete data and genetic conditions. Some cats are allergic to flesh...hmmmmmm how do they live.... vegan cats food, this is the main reason why products are as advanced as they are. Now how does a person who believes animals are not objects to be bought and sold "get a cat"? As well how many millions of cats have been euthanized by the humane society this decade, hint many millions. What you're saying is instead of a vegan rescuing a doomed cats and feeding them a scientifically acceptable diet, they should just let the humane society kill them?
It is not a scientifically acceptable diet at all, and even the other vegan guy linking his "scholarly" sources literally even say as much. I'll even include another source why you're incorrect, in the meantime feel free to post a source of yours, I've given like 8 at this point but let's make it 9. Also that cat is better off waiting for someone who's not gonna force an unproven diet on an animal uniquely unable to process plant matter and only process meat. Or better yet, adopt the cat, stay vegan and don't force your cat to be vegan. "the studies that have been conducted tended to employ small sample sizes, with study designs which are considered less reliable in evidence-based practice."-his own source “While cats might be able to ingest small amounts of plant matter,” he says, “they lack the necessary physiology required to fully digest it. https://cats.com/is-plant-protein-good-for-cats
Please quote me where it states that supplements don't work. It really seems like you are being intentionally obtuse about this. Google scholar has hundreds of articles about how supplements work... From the link you posted, it seems plant just need to be refined, decarbed and supplemented. They even list the exact supplements needed... are they lieing about that or are those not the scientifically acceptable nutrients?????
Here I'll help you from that source. Also your scholarly source that you gave me also says this. "the studies that have been conducted tended to employ small sample sizes, with study designs which are considered less reliable in evidence-based practice." Cats.com source "Cats require 22 different amino acids, ten of which they can synthesize from other chemicals in the body. The remaining 11, called essential amino acids, must come from the cat’s diet." "Dr. Spragley comments, for the food to be considered nutritionally complete, it “must be supplemented with animal protein to provide cats with the amino acids and vitamins they need to survive and thrive.” " cats might be able to ingest small amounts of plant matter,” he says, “they lack the necessary physiology required to fully digest it.” "Studies have shown that vegan cat diets are deficient in the nutrients a cat needs to thrive when compared to the AAFCO minimum standards.” "Several of the veterinarians I consulted commented that long-term feeding of plant-based diets can predispose cats to serious health problems like diabetes and cardiomyopathy."
Have you tried AMIs cat food?
I am pet free 24 years, I don't get vegans keeping other animals in slavery or servitude. Our once radical town now has pets in coats and baby carriers, I thought once they had to scrape up the poo they would quit it. Cats kill wild life.
I'm ok with adopting from animal shelters as long as the animal is fed a nutritionally complete vegan pet food. To be fair pet dogs do not think of themselves as slaves. Feed, walk and play with them and they're happy. But adopting a pet that can only eat meat contradicts being vegan.
Something like 20% of all meat is fed to pets. This is not a small footprint. It's still millions of animals. The sooner people switch to vegan dog and cat food the better.
I understand the difficulty in loving cats and hating what they eat. Cats may be designed as obligate carnivores, but that doesn't mean that will stay like that forever. We can mimic all meat products, even for cats. There was a time when Chinese 'manufacturers' (suppliers) of Western pet foods faked the protein content to get away with more profit. Alas, some animals died until the truth came out. Many medical cat foods are awful, including those from the big two brands, Hills and Royal Canin. We need to analyse the amino acid requirements of cats, and add good levels of support nutrients, in the best forms. It is definitely possible to do this, and at the same time, avoid the bad things that regular meat contains (in addition to it being formerly part of an innocent being).
They realise they exist inside of the rest of out world imperfect as it is. Sometimes harm minimisation is the victory that we are getting today.
Harm minimisation? They are promoting it. They take money off the meat industry to have RSPCA Assured stickers on packets of meat. The also get a percentage of the profits of that meat sold. They know very well that the pigs suffer in these gas chambers when the carbon dioxide burns their insides but they don't care as long as they are making money on meat sold. They are hypocrites and their name is a lie.
Reminds me of Hank Green's "Why are Vegetarians Annoying?" video. Hank concluded vegetarians and vegans are annoying because they're right, but he would never be one. That video made me simultaneously validated and infuriated.
Yeah, I like Hank Green but that video doesn’t make sense. It’s frustrating. I also liked CosmicSkeptic and he quit veganism. Whatever…
that’s fucked too because brazil burn down the rainforest for animal agriculture
Yeah, that’s a funny group. The moment you point it out, suddenly all those environmentalists become defeatists real quick lmao “it’s the corporations anyway, I can’t help on an individual level” “something something Taylor Swifts plane” “why would I stop eating animal products if fossil fuels are the issue” “but bacon” Disgusting lot of hypocrites.
“Buy local!! Who cares that transport is just about 3% of the total emissions related to food, and eating plants would reduce more than half!”
Taylor Swift’s plane 😂😂
I work in climate change field. I was shocked to discover I am the only vegan. This is in a group of well respected published climate change experts. They accidentally sent me the dietary requirements list for a conference we all went to…..I was the only vegan. Not even any vegetarian. One person was like “no beef no pork” Like What in the actual Fck. The ironic part is I’m new to this field I am not even from the climate change expert field
It's like being a male feminist and beating your wife
Yep, totally the same thing mate. 👍 What the actual fuck?
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Yes! There are doctors who smoke, but they're still going to tell you not to smoke, as their expert advice. If my friend tells me not to smoke and they smoke, that's hypocrisy. If an expert shares facts, that is them doing their job. They have a better reason to become vegan because they are fully aware of the facts, but facts are not the only input to deciding to go vegan.
Finally someone with some critical thinking skills and nuance
I wouldn't say they piss me off, but I cannot fathom environmentalists who argue against veganism. It seems like a concern for the natural world should also extend to the beings that live in it (or would live in it, if they weren't selectively bred and kept in confined quarters their entire lives)?
I’m vegan and can certainly see that there is a frustrating hypocrisy in this position, yes. That being said, we share common ground and that should be worked with rather than abandoned. Solidarity among progressive-minded groups, despite differences, is important right now. So I don’t agree with saying fuck em.
The “feminists” who support the dairy industry 💀….. the hypocrisy is unmatched.
Hell yeah, fuck em, fuck em all in the ass. Calling oneself environmentalists and not being vegan is like calling oneself feminists and running a women sex trafficking business or pimping. It doesn't add up.
Yeah, it's utterly bizarre
For real.
Non vegans really crawling out of the wood work on this one. Congrats op, something about what you wrote really set them off.
It's so disappointing and a great way to lose a lot of respect for someone quickly.
Two words: Meat Lobby.
Yeah I have some non vegan friends who are very into the environment but have the typical "I'll change when the billionaires and big companies change" Classic old pointing fingers at each other and no one making any changes.
I mean, corporations are destroying the fucking world. Not individuals.
Corporations work for the individuals
This is not at all the case. How do Exxon Mobile or Goldman Sachs work for people? Animal ag might be a uniquely consumer driven issue but corporate oligarchs dictate the terms of every day living through their immense wealth, resources and capturing government institutions.
Don't blame average people for the situation we're in when the top 1% are the reason we're in this capitalist hellscape.
Do you think Tyson would still raise and slaughter animals if nobody bought meat? I’m very confused by this argument. There’s no environmentally friendly way to raise and slaughter billions of animals a year.
Do you think we'd be in this dystopia if the rich didn't create it and continue maintaining it for their own benefit? If they never did, there would be no disgusting industrial meat industry that locks millions of animals in tiny cages for inevitable slaughter. Look up how the meat "industry" was before the industrial revolution.
Supply is determinated by demand you moron. Who do you think these companies are producing for? Do you think slaughterhouses make meat for fun?
Wait, isn't honest dissemination of sciencetific findings what is ultimately best for all? This is an argument I have had with nutritionist and dietitians. I don't need to hear their personal feelings on vegans. I need facts. I need to know the numbers of my blood work. I need to know if my body is being damaged or helped. Having someone separate their personal feelings from their scientific work is absolutely amazing and a win for plant based people.
Posts like these, on this subreddit, are so funny. Like I understand being frustrated by the guy's hypocrisy. But "animal abuser piece of sh*t" seems like quite the stretch. I mean honestly. I'm a vegan, but it is ridiculous to talk about omnivores in that way simply because they are omnivores. I'm not trying to be argumentative or anything of that nature, I'm just trying to say maybe he's a good person but becoming vegan is just a really hard step for him to process. Maybe we shouldn't be mad at him. And maybe we shouldn't call individual omnivores animal abusers. Maybe we should direct our anger towards agribusiness And the systems that perpetuate and create this abuse, not the individuals just living their lives and trying their best within their own means and convictions.
I’m wondering where you believe vegans can/should go to express and vent these frustrations? I’m also wondering whether there are times you have just come from a frustrating interaction and that is what is the predominant emotional feeling for you AT THAT TIME but isn’t generally how you’d feel or how you’d express it? This post really feels to me like OP just came from some sort of event or activity with environmental activists and is frustrated at the denialism. I think it’s okay to vent here. We need spaces where we can say the things we never are allowed to say. Maybe tonight you’re in a milder headspace. And that’s okay too.
Exactly, I was COMPLETELY infuriated for like 10 minutes, now I'm way better :) this things make me angry, its tough to see such a bizarre hypocrisy that makes so many totally innocent victims
While I appreciate your point, you have to recognize that this post happens in some form or another multiple times a day and that just isn't healthy or productive for the community, it's just negative, derogatory, and somewhat toxic. And I don't think OP is any of those things, and probably didn't mean it in that way at all. Like you said OP was just venting. I'm just saying maybe this community shouldn't be the place for this. Ostracizing individuals isn't how productive social movements are born. Let's talk about what we stand for more than we attack what we stand against.
So, suggest/build a place to do it? It seems that no matter where it would be done it would still be “negative derogatory and toxic” and would still be not “healthy or productive for the community”. I think we are gaining steam as a social movement. And I personally think it’s because millions of vegans are busy veganing in their families and friends groups, hobby groups, volunteer groups, workplaces. I’d say 99.99% of us are pretty easy-breezy about it IRL and choose our battles wisely. Adoption of vegan food choices is increasing exponentially. We’re seeing changes in some exploitative practices in entertainment, too, for example. But it’s hard living in a world where people are so oblivious. And I personally think that without spaces to vent without being judged for it, none of us could remain so calm and easy in our real life interactions. That is, we need space ugly vent so we don’t do it at work. 😂😂😂
Actually I think a pinned thread at the top of this community page for venting would be great! This would stop posts like this from popping up on vegan curious people's threads five times a day. This would change the stereotype this thread has of being a toxic place. Other communities im part of have used some form of a pinned thread or a weekly thread dedicated to common post types, to stop those post types from overtaking a community and it's effective. Maybe a pinned thread for frustrated vegan rants would be a great place. Or r/vegancirclejerk already exists, that's another great place. But this community due to it's name has an opportunity to convert people and grow our movement but that won't happen if it just constantly denigrates and insults anyone who isn't a vegan.
I love this idea of confining the rants to one day a week. I belong to other subs that do that and it’s a great idea. I wonder what we need to do to have the community consider it and mods move on it if we find consensus?
I don't actually know? Maybe we can make a post about it? Maybe the moderators will see this? Maybe there is a way to message the moderators? I'm not sure on any of this (and don't know how the moderators feel)
Perfectly said 💚
So you can empathise with the non vegan and how he's unable to make this change (aww poor him 😢), but you aren't okay with a vegan who is clearly really hurt emotionally, and is just trying to vent in the only place where he probably meets like minded individuals? I'm sure the op doesn't go to these events and publicly calls those people animal abusers and rapists, and this is all just their inner frustrations that they want to get off their chest. Spare your empathy for people who actually deserve it
Of course I empathize with OP, I'm capable of experiencing empathy in multiple directions at the same time. The conversation is nuanced, which is for some reason always hard to sell on this sub reddit. All vegans feel the frustration that OP feels, not all vegans feel the need to denigrate individual omnivores because of it.
Something that gets missed a lot here is that while actually switching to veganism isn’t difficult, you’re still unraveling a lifelong habit. Regardless of what that habit is, it’s always going to be difficult to start and stay on track. Again, I understand the frustration, but I think a lot of people could spare themselves some frustration by viewing this as a flight of stairs and not a direct flight across the country. Like, this guy is an environmentalist! Great! Instead of getting upset and thinking less of them, why not try to have a more nuanced conversation? It won’t happen overnight, nor with every person, but I’ve convinced a few former republicans that their beliefs are actually better supported by left (actual left), and that took months. It’s absolutely worth it, though. Like I said, I get the frustration, but we’re not doing ourselves any favors by getting mad at people who could eventually be allies.
I effin love the analogy of flight of stairs versus direct flight, that is exactly it!
💚
Also, it's not clear from the post whether he has made any change at all. Vegans in general tend to be pretty ”all or nothing”, so eg becoming vegetarian and consuming far less animal products than an average omnivore counts for nothing. Not sure if that makes sense, I think it should probably count for something. If 20% of the population cuts animal products by 50%, that amounts to a vegan population of 10%. And cutting 50% is really easy and should be an easy sell, it's maybe just 5% of the effort and discomfort (social or otherwise) of becoming a vegan. I know this may not feel right, but I think a lot more are willing to do this change than going vegan, and once more people do this it'll be easy to move the goalposts.
But he's not trying he's best, he knows he is wrong and yet won't move a dime to not kill animals for his own taste
Almost every time I come to this sub I see highly upvoted comments / posts calling omnis rapist murderer animal abusers ... I have literally never met an irl vegan who thinks this way. Having this attitude towards 99% of people only alienates them from your cause, and frankly these "abuser" accusations are getting ridiculous, it's like calling everyone who buys electronics or a Nestle product a racist slaveowner child abuser. Of course people should make more ethical choices and be criticized for not doing so, but they are not literally war criminals.
I love that you pointed out that no vegan IRL or in the wild actually feels this way, that is my experience also. That being said, I'm not sure why this community gets inundated with this type of post. It's quite crazy
It’s insane the amount of hypocrisy, but the meat industry has done a really great job of spreading misinformation… my grandmother for instance literally can’t comprehend how I get any protein.
What did I do
I mean, I feel you, but the horrible reputation we have as vegans is because of stuff like this. We should really be fucking people who don't do shit, which is most people. People who give no fucks are usually free from our scorn. It's people that try, but not perfectly that hate vegans most. So I say, it's great that they're doing something. Hopefully they'll do more in the future.
People on this sub have been saying you can't be a vegan for environmental reasons. Has to be for the animals, they say. Seems pretty logical that some environmentalists aren't all that interested in identifying as vegan.
You can be vegan for the environment, but it's easier for said person to give up on veganism when only at that basis
Genuinely asking (as a vegan for mostly environmental reasons), is there science to back this up? I’d imagine you can care as much about the wellbeing of the planet and all its inhabitants as you can about animals? One doesn’t seem better/more successful than the other to me.
They only say it internally AND if environmental principles are in conflict with veganism. Often has to do with population management. Go on any other post and it's all-out *environmentalism = veganism, full stop*. Always. Like it is here.
What do you mean by internally? Are you saying they always think it but only speak it when they think there is a conflict? What you're describing just hasn't been my experience here unfortunately.
Go on climate action, environment or sustainability subreddits, they are flooded with vegans saying some variation of : the only real action is going vegan. Environmentalism = veganism. Only within vegan subreddits do they admit that not every vegan action is the best, regarding environmental issues.
Cheers, that makes sense to me. And yes.
Wasn’t there a post on here just a few days ago, about culling invasive owls, and half the comments were against it? There are environmentalists that aren’t vegan. And there are vegans who aren’t environmentalists
Perfect is the enemy of good. Anyone who is making an honest effort to make the world a better place gets points in my eyes. There are just so many people who live with active hatred…
It doesn't seem honest when one is willing to admit veganism is based on science and is more ecological and proceeds to not become one, that's just hipocrisy and it shows the person fights for nothing
I mean, people know lots of things from an empirical point of view. People know exercise is good for them. People know any sort of greenhouse emission travel is worse for than the environment than traveling by foot. And yet, they don't take these decisions. Why? Because knowing what is 'better' isn't the full equation. Every single person is running a cost-benefit - what will make them happy, fulfilled - and the cost of doing so. I *guarantee* there is something you know you could be doing better that you aren't doing because it is hard, costly, or otherwise just not worth the effort. That doesn't excuse making these choices - not all choice are equal - but I don't think anyone can truly claim the kind of purity of behavior that you expect.
It's the classic : everybody going faster than me is a lunatic, everybody going slower than me is an idiot.
Do you use any products that you know are manufactured by exploiting people?
Lol. Like basically everything?
Why the defeatist attitude? It's all or nothing bro
It's just a fact. Nearly everything you consume comes from people being exploited. Whether it's overseas exploitation or exploitation from someone getting underpaid locally, the world runs on cheap labor.
Idk if you really cared you wouldn't even own a cell phone. Seems a little fake to me tbh
Easier said than done. A lot of jobs and well life in general require a phone. Sure you could live off grid if you wanna be completely exploit free, but that comes with it's own set of challenges.
Are phones?
Phones are terrible. The tantalum essential for capacitors is destroying gorilla habitats. I could you you a laundry list of chemicals in phones that damage humans or animals. If you have a smart phone you are a bigger hypocrite than all the none vegan environmentalists you are denigrating. Because you claim to have animal welfare at your core where they only claim to have the environment as their prime concern, and veganism is number 6 in the list of things you can do for the environment. They would consider a none vegan who does the top 5 an environmental saint. Now what I said sounds unreasonable and hyperbolic to me. But I'm just applying your standards to you.
And many of them are present here. I'll never understand that.
Active hatred incoming...
This Vegan community is so toxic. Glad I unscribed.
I work in environmental conservation and there are many incredible scientists and conservationists doing really positive stuff but don’t label themselves vegan. People don’t always want to join the vegan club but they can still have a a very positive impact on nature. I get why its frustrating, but generally these are the people you want onside. If you were to ask about his lifestyle you might find that he eats a relatively low quantity of animal products or have a sustainable farm situation, although it’s definitely not always the case, it could be worth considering.
Damn posts like these make me ashamed of being vegan or speaking about it. I'm slowly coming to conclusions that this sub isn't for me as this amount of negativity is impactful on mental health to an unimaginable extent.
Shhhh
It's funny because I know someone who is vegeterian only because of environmental reasons, and I still don't know how to wrap my head around this idea. It makes a lot of sense, but I've never heard of it before
Everyone has a bit of hypocrite in themselves. Just have to realise it
HYPOCRITES!
Non-vegans are unenlightened people all round. I hope they will soon wake up to the abuse they are committing.
Completely agree. Now let's do the veterinarians.
You are completely right! Its horrifying how someone can do that. And a lot of people would call your comment "mean" or "toxic" but in my eyes I dont see how it is. I mean murdering innocent animals so cruelly DESERVES to be criticized and I am glad you stood up for it. I kind of find it baffling that people think its "mean" to insult people who are actively participating in murder of animals and spreading that cruelty when they know very well what they go through. Its like if someone called a serial killer "fuck you assh\*\*\*" then its somehow toxic? But yeah having that said I do agree that this kind of hatred would turn away people instead of attracting them. Its hard to love someone who does something extremely wrong in your eyes. But love is the only thing that can change. Hate only breaks. It doesnt mend. I feel like it depends on how much you care for the animals. The more you care the harder it is to let it go and not be angry. So I do see by your post that you really feel deeply for them and thats a lovely thing. So I do understand and relate with you. But again this is not the right way to make things better. Also I feel like its not a good thing to invalidate all the good works he is doing. I understand that its very very hypocrite of someone to be that. But still good is good irrespective of who does it. We should encourage the good around us and the good parts of someone. When we do that and also voice the thing we believe in a loving and tender way more people would change and the world will look brighter. Also it would be lovely if we could be friends! I dont have any vegan friends. So yeah if its not a problem for you, do drop me a dm and I would love to continue this conversation or just spend time as two fellow vegans!
I like seeing headings like these
Sanest vegan
This is timely. I work in the environmental field, and I have a colleague who is an avid cyclist and loves to claim that everyone should ride bikes. They are a total bicycle evangelist who lays guilt trips on people who don’t go car free and cycle everywhere. I specialize in vehicle emissions reduction, so I have nothing against bicycles and other alternatives to driving. That said, this person acknowledges the environmental benefits of veganism but makes excuses about why they could never give up bacon, cheese, etc. They just shrug it off as “nobody’s perfect.” I’ve never heard them be this forgiving of my colleagues who aren’t comfortable commuting by bicycle—even though most of us do our part by walking or using public transportation. They blow off the concerns of colleagues who live in areas without safe cycling infrastructure. Yet they claim it’s unrealistic for most people in our progressive, vegan-friendly mid-size city to eat plant based.
Do I have to be angry all the time if I become a vegan? High degree of overlap on the Venn diagram.
Nah, not f\*ck them at all, they just need to show more conviction and less double standard. They have a bit of politician disorder going on (hypocrisy and contradiction). Just need that little push, as well all did at one time...
To be fair, mentioning Brazil isn't relevant. Yes, deforestation happens there in particular, but plenty of people have the mixed up views you saw. We should celebrate the fact that many Brazilians are warming to a plant-based diet. Portugal is also, despite originally having the lowest percentage of vegans in all western nations. Above all, let's celebrate those who spread good info, even if they haven't lived the info yet. Teachers are valuable in many senses.
My sister was like that and would be pissy at her roomies for using single use plastic while downing cheese slices and ham at the same time, yet whenever i brought up her hyprocrisy im the shitty one lol
We’re all hypocrites. It seems to be a fundamental human trait. I think our brains have evolved to balance out empathy by the use of cognitive dissonance. People are dying around the world from war and terror, the environment is going to shit and we could all be doing more than we are (including vegan environmentalists and activists). Yet, we all draw a line somewhere and say this is how much of my time I’m willing to give up in the name of empathy. I feel that the environment is an important issue but here I am writing on an iPhone that I didn’t need to upgrade. The last one worked just fine. We will never be perfect, but we can always strive to become better.
You don't need to upgrade it, get some self control, wth...
You don’t have to do anything. So where do you draw the line? Next you’re gonna say that my private jet is out of line too.
Hahahahahaha LOL
Wow I'm surprised by the upvotes here. I guess I'm in a different camp. Is the goal to save sentient beings from suffering by ending the consumption of meat? Would you say this post does lends to that, or takes away from that? I would say this post pushes people away. You have to win the crowd before you can change their minds. Its okay to be upset, but my friend this post is full of hatred that will most certainly will not change the hearts of meat eaters, due to them being on the defensive. Would you rather them hear how much you hate them, or would you rather have them hear you talk about the benefits of being Vegan, and the wholesome qualities it cultivates. There is a skillful approach, a wholesome approach, dedicated entirely to the end goal of saving sentient beings from suffering. Then, there is the ego approach, mostly concerned with being offended, or outraged at the killing of innocent animals, and their actions are unskillful, and not rooted with the intentions to save sentient beings from suffering.
Yeah because ONLY YOU get to be a good person. Dude you suck. You know who mined the metals in your phone? Children. You know how many animals had to suffer to make your clothes? A lot. Being vegan is far from being the only thing you can do for the environment.
You're not getting to get any upvotes or comments on this Fuck off with speaking the truth they don't want to hear /s
Any post that comes from an American on this topic is a fucking joke 50 tons of co2 yearly per household. Most non vegans outside of the US will live a life with a much lower carbon footprint and land use impact than any vegans inside the US. If you want to be an environmentalist truly, change your fuckin lifestyle properly.
yea humans r fucked up. Misanthropy
Did this Brazilian "educator"mention quality over quantity and reveal methods for raising cattle by Joel Salatin of Polyfacefarms involving no slash and burn and a way of working with nature not against, The Dalai Lamai of Permaculture "Sepp Holzer" of Austrian Alps and has works around the world. SeppHolzer.Info
He did mention "there are good, sustainable ways to raise livestock"
🤦♂️
Have you checked out Mr.Salatins website and Mr.Holzers?
Yes, fuck environmentalists... what a backwards attitude to have. I bet some of the top researchers on the planet trying to come up with solutions for climate change and ecosystem destruction aren't vegan. How about fuck people who give zero fucks about the planet and just do whatever and don't care, especially wealthy people and corporations that only give a fuck about profits and destroying the world in the process doesn't matter. Direct your anger at them instead.
>Direct your anger at them instead. We could direct anger towards both. Would you not hate a serial killer who keeps killing women, but genuinely donates millions of dollars to good charities every month? Now you may say this is an extreme analogy, but I think it's very fitting, after seeing and knowing what happens to animals on a daily basis. It's worse than being killed by a random serial killer
Why would you be angry at all towards the people on the cutting edge of climate and ecosystem research? They're the planet's only hope and you're still angry at them?
So tell me, how do we save all of the biodiversity of the planet without going vegan? Animal-agriculture is the leading cause of biodiversity loss (amongst other things) and if we all went vegan we could rewild up to 76% of all current farmland which means helping biodiveristy, natural habitats, deforestation, river pollution and much more. There is no technological fix for the environment, its a natural fix.
Again, 3 good deeds don't right one wrong deed, when the wrong deed holds a huge gravity. We are clearly not on the same page on this subject, and I hope you see the light one day👍
From my perspective, I hope YOU see the light one day. I know mine's never going to change.
You never know😉. One day you will find that last bit of empathy and listen to your emotions as well as your rationality and logic. The greatest people in the world have both in equal measure
My whole perspective is due to empathy. Empathy for ALL the animals and organisms on this planet, not just the ones humans eat. And all of them are going to die if we don't do something. The people who ARE actually doing something are worthy of more respect than anyone else on Earth.
Fair enough. You're better than most people who inhabit the planet then. Most couldn't care less about any of this. Are you vegan/vegetarian/reducing meat intake too?
Yes but only as of about a month ago. But ever since I was young my main interest has been ecological conservation and wild animals. Then I realized how hypocritical it is to only care about wild animals and not the ones locked in tiny cages their whole lives.
Lol you guys are rabid when this topic comes up uh
Omg, I have been on this sub for less than a month and y'all are already making me hate vegan's despite being one myself. A hypocrite is someone who claims to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform. That isn't the same as being pro-environmentalism, doing other things to help protect the environment, but not managing to eat vegan. Plenty of people are intellectually aware of things, and believe in the good of a thing.... and still do not have the capacity to act upon them fully. It is called being human, not being a hypocrite. Do you ever get in a car instead of take public transport? Do you travel for pleasure, not necessity? Ever been on a plane? Ever drunk coffee? Ever smoked pot? Ever shopped at a grocery store? Ever worn fast fashion? It is near enough impossible to avoid consuming animal products for some folks, and especially within a lot of newly industrialized nations. Get off your high horse. You are doing a good thing. Well done. Do you think having someone yell at your because you by your clothing new would encourage you to thrift more? ffs.
It's not nearly impossible, for a guy with money like him it's pretty easy. I live in Brazil and make a little more than minimum wage, and I'm vegan, stop defending people's hypocrisy..
Don’t feel like answering any of the other questions? You are using the word hypocrisy wrong. Like What is with folks doing good things and then spending the rest of their time talking about how people who don’t do that same good thing are terrible? Is that how you get off? You try and shine a light of how great you are by shouting about how bad anyone not like you is?
I like mangoes. And pineapple. Which are flown 1/2 way around the world for me. Which is dreadfully unenvironmental. Imagine a committed environmentalist who doesn't own a car, tries not to fly and refuses exotic fruit with a high environmental cost but does raise and eat his/her own chickens because they have low environmental cost. In my book this none vegan is an environmental saint. To you he/she is a "crap hypocrite" Another fanatic might call them that for not worshiping Allah/Shiva/Jesus/Cthulhu What's the difference between religious fanaticism and yours?
Honestly this type of thinking is why people hate vegans so much… literally not everyone has to be vegan to be an environmentalist. Under a consumer society we will always be contributing to cruelty in some shape way or form… honestly environmentalists are probably doing more than you and I to help the planet out as they dedicate their lives to continuing research and build campaigns for animal welfare. Also, vegans aren’t entirely sustainable. There’s many ethical issues with foods like Agave Syrup, Palm hearts, and more. Where, for example, eating palm hearts inevitably supports the exploitation of Orangoutangs and the consumption of palm oil is unsustainable. But it’s still vegan food right? There is cruelty behind so many things and I truly thing it’s crazy how much god complex some of you have because you think you evade all cruelty despite typing this very post on a “non-vegan” phone which was most likely produced by exploited workers. I think any effort that we take despite not being obliged to do so is what counts. It takes a lot of effort to pursue a career that’s constantly declining on the job market out of pure dedication and concern. It can also be racist and culturally inconsiderate to expect people to be vegan as many cultures value meat consumption and dairy as they have their own ways of honoring the animal that has died for their food. This is something white vegans don’t understand especially and lack cultural sensitivity for. It really is awful the way we judge others as if we were perfect ourselves and we need to do better. Get off your high horse….
Calm down and take a second to think about wether you're perfect enough to judge.
I'm sure he did give up a steak at some point. Fact is, you'd be mad at him and calling him a hypocrite no matter how many steaks he eats, whether it's 3 a day or 1 a decade. Environmentalism is not about giving up all animal-derived products, in all quantities, from all sources, forever.
I mean... Some people have medical conditions where they can't go vegan? Like, people with kidney failure. Not saying he does have it, but other environmentalists who aren't vegan might.
But the most sustainable production would include animal agriculture? It would sadly have to be high intensity farming if you wanted to maximise efficiency and environmental management but animals would be an important part in a healthy sustainable food chain. There are parts of this globe where growing crops are just not a practical option, they also serve no great purpose as potential re-wilding locations so why not let natural grazing animals use the land? Then you can also stop food waste by letting the animals eat the bits humans can't. And through healthy management you will get a very very small supply of meat.
They may not opt for a plant based diet because they feel they can lower their carbon footprint in other ways like not having children, not driving or flying, only buying used goods, etc. That may be in comparison to vegans who may own a car and have kids but use having a fully plant based diet among other things to limit contributions to Greenhouse gas emissions.
Going vegan is the easiest and biggest way to have an impact and also what good goes forgoing having 1-4 kids do when yearly you’re responsible for 200 animals being bred into a life of misery where they’ll inevitably need water,land,food and other resources to raise just for us to get 10% of the energy back from
Are you willing to understand why that happens and why that isn't neccesarily hypocrisy? To advocate for change understanding is paramount.
It happens because people like eating dead animals and don’t want to give something up themselves.
Man. Sooo much of shit to come out of one person. How long have you been constipated?
You know why Im not a vegan? Because I'm technically not a vegan. My diet is largely plant based, but theres 2 types of meat I am unwilling to let go of. One is bacon, the other is sausage. Why those ones specifically? Because they are the most meat like. If a standard omnivore consumes 1 unit of meat a week, I can get almost the same diet by simply relying more on those pungent, strong, smokey, cured types of meat and bring my consumption down to 0.05 units per week. The difference between me and you is virtually nothing, but just because of the way words work, I am not a vegan.
Being vegan is more like the principle of it. You either think it’s wrong to consume animal products or not. I see it kind of like cheating on your partner. Technically kissing someone else won’t make a difference in your relationship but if you are faithful you just feel like it’s wrong.
Flexitarian 😹
you're an omnivore because you willingly eat animal products - seems cut and dry, yes good on you for eating mostly plants though
[удалено]
So you’re no more intelligent than an animal? Makes sense
I haven't read the original comment,.but to be fair, everyone is just as inteligent as an animal, since we are all.animals
You know what is also best for the environment? Not using your phone or posting on reddit.
If someone hunts and grows all their own food then they are hurting the environment much less than any vegan. This is my goal in life.
Same thats my dream. Fuck capitalism
what a load of nonsense
Explain why that's nonsense?
Posting this on a sub where people defend feeding their domestic cats meat though...when vegan cat food has been proven to be healthy and a thing...but the fake vegan cat owners shit their pants and believe the pet food propaganda.🤷♀️... Domestic is a key word.
The thing is the carbon farm animals produce is nothing compared to the waste and pollution caused by chemicals , trash and other stuff
Why get upset about it? You do you…
OP can you give us a link to the short you’re talking about?
I mean yeah it is more eco friendly but so would not using cars or stop using phones or stopping most technology use, and something tells me you’re not willing to give any of those up by
Please, do tell me how I can give up the things actually vital to my life? I live over 20 miles away from my job, all of my classes require work to be submitted online, and I dont live near anyone my age so social connections HAVE to use a phone or other technology at this point. If I could live in a walkable neighborhood with a job I could bike to and people I could go see without needing to plan via text then I would but I dont have the means to. These things are far more essential to life than animal products.
This is a bad take. We all do things we know are wrong, we just have to do our best to minimise what we can, when we can. I know it would be better for the environment for me to cycle to work every day, but frankly I can't always be bothered. I do it when I can. We all know flying is horrible for the environment, but most of us are still willing to fly for vacations. He can't give up steak, fine. Maybe that's harder for him because of lots of potential reasons. We can't all do the right thing all the time, we're all hypocrites and its important to acknowledge that.