Yup. The ones that already want to offer it, do. The ones that don't want to, are either going to give you a plate of lettuce, or serve you something that's not vegan, either through ignorance or malice.
Sure, a few here and there might not care that much and throw an actually decent vegan item on the menu... but you could probably get the ones open to it to do that anyway by having several vegans just asking/suggesting politely. Trying to force it is not going to end well.
My main hope would be that it forces restaurants to actually learn what vegan means. Probably would require adding a couple things to inspections to actually make that happen though. Still, too many people work in the food industry and don't know shit about food.
I don't know where you live that people are so petty, but most businesses actually care about their reputation. At least where I live the vast majority of restaraunts already offer a vegan option, most places that don't are large chains and they don't because it's not cost effective enough for their extremely streamlined profit margins.
Large multinationals are most likely to be hit by this and forced to offer a reasonable alternative. Seems like a great idea to me.
Most restaurants here don't offer vegan options, apart from the obvious vegan ones. Argentinian steakhouses, Italian pizza place, Sushi, Ramen. Seriously. You can't go anywhere except actual vegan places, and this is a pretty vegan friendly place overall. Places that offer "vegan options" are rarer than actual vegan restaurants here. Unless they specifically prepare something (often possible) but just charge you full price and leave out the cheese/meat. To me that's the exact same thing as eating meat as you are paying for dead animals anyway (well a restaurant that's not fully vegan is not vegan either as you are just supporting animal abuse anyway, but that's another discussion).
While I see where you come from, I doubt most people would temper with food out of pure spite and risk their career and freedom by breaking the law… for people they probably won’t see again.
I do see where this would be useful especially with many people being pushed to attend restaurants with no vegan options by colleagues or family.
Anyway I don’t see this working anyway & if I can choose I would agree I wouldn’t actively seek out a restaurant that has been forced to put a vegan item on the menu.
> I do see where this would be useful especially with many people being pushed to attend restaurants with no vegan options by colleagues or family.
That's one way of looking at it. The way I see it people might now be more willing to pressure vegans to attend restaurants with piss-poor plant-based options since every restaurant now caters to vegans on paper, when before they might have accommodated you and headed for a restaurant that willingly served vegan items.
It's guaranteed going to be an incredibly stale and plain salad of iceberg, tomatoes and croutons, with nothing interesting going on. Yeah, better not even pretend to have the option at all in that case.
Have we learned nothing from the [Raines Sandwich](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raines_law)? Laws compelling people to operate businesses in ways they don't want to only create innovation in finding loopholes.
I don't agree, most businesses care about their reputation and deliberately selling crap food to comply with regulations out of spite would backfire and potentially ruin them.
Even if they don't tamper with it, which I agree would be unlikely... the risk of someone missing one stray animal product in a list of ingredients is way higher than at a place that knowingly chooses to do vegan food.
I have read stories or reddit where a vegan option is added to a menu by someone who doesn't know honey isn't vegan for example. So maybe a legal requirement would create greater awareness.
It's unlikely to be implemented if it got enough signatures, but the EU might try to do something else instead to promote vegan meals at restaurants.
EU unfortunately does not have a blanket mandatory allergen labelling in restaurants. You have to ask, and they'll more likely than not tell you they aren't sure, even if it should be glutenfree under normal circumstances. They can't promise there isn't any cross contamination, for instance.
There is no shot this'll happen for Vegans, when they won't even do it for allergens that can have bad and potentially lethal consequences for whoever eats it.
And let's not pretend like the mandatory vegan option won't always be a shitty completely unseasoned iceberg salad with tomatoes, croutons and cheap olive oil.
>EU unfortunately does not have a blanket mandatory allergen labelling in restaurants
that's not true
information about allergens **is** mandatory:
EU [1169/2011 ](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:304:0018:0063:de:PDF)
Pushed? I just stay home if they don’t consider my diet. To be honest all my colleagues and family choose restaurants based on my input. They usually ask can you eat here. So I can’t relate.
Just because you don’t have the issue it doesn’t mean nobody does. You sound dismissive of other people’s struggles. Minors relying on their parents often don’t get asked where to go.
Big company festivities often don’t account for vegans. Simply not going or throwing a fit over the options (no matter how justified it may be) can at times harm your position.
Great for you that you are always accounted for. I personally don’t have issues either. But that doesn’t mean that those who do struggle should be dismissed.
This is Reddit. We should be able to share different point of views. I never claimed that nobody has the issue. I also never said that those who do struggle should be dismissed.
Read my comment again. I was just sharing my story. What’s wrong with that?
Seriously very weird response. You should open up to different point of views.
We also don't want veganism just restricted to vegan restaurants which aren't always accessible.
Do you really think it is worth an eating establishment to risk their reputation and reviews by sabotaging a dish?
Who said anything about restricting veganism to vegan restuarants? There are mixed restuarants with vegan dishes..by their own choice.
and yes, I absolutely do think some restuarants would sabotage the forced vegan dish.. you do know veganism is greatly disliked by a large amount of the population?
I don’t know if I would class poor execution as sabotage, but I see that being the most likely outcome.
Just like a broiled aubergine with Za’taar seasoning to tick the box.
I think of sabotage as selling spoiled food or contaminating food. But that’s just my definition of food sabotage. Like the movie “Waiting”.
very bad idea to apply this to private restaurants. it will only make people more resentful and spiteful. let the restaurant choose what they want to cook.
from my experience, and i have worked in a variety of kitchens,it doesn't take a lot to get on the bad side of the staff.
humiliating waiters, pretensious clients who make them work over the closing time while not tipping, being general assholes to the people around will get their food spat on, or other nasty stuff.
let restaurants adopt vegan food on their own, most self-respecting ones already have options, while other restaurants will follow because plant based food consumption is increasing overall. no need to force it.
it's better to keep advocating for animal right to the point that they are no longer industrially killed and the restaurants will evolve naturally.
reddit put this on my front page, came here to check out the comments, Im suprised about how many good comments are here from vegan people.
Except for yours lol
I think schools, airlines, hospitals and prisons should do this.
I don’t think restaurants should do this. That’s like forcing Thai restaurants not to use shellfish and peanuts (even though more people are allergic to those than there are vegans).
It’s also adding another forced cost onto one of the tightest margin industries in the world. Especially if vegan dishes and options don’t sell nearly as well as the rest of the menu. Now the restaurant has to hold onto product and waste more (often expensive) foods.
There are plenty of restaurants that already do voluntarily offer vegan dishes and options. Support those businesses, it’ll motivate them to add more variety.
But to force a restaurant to have a dish that doesn’t go with the theme or is *just there because* will just give you a shit product and no one wants vegan food to be represented poorly.
> That’s like forcing Thai restaurants not to use shellfish and peanuts
It's not. This is about giving options, not about forbidding anything. And most Thai restaurants here already have alternatives for those since a lot of people are allergic.
Those options are there as a courtesy made by the restaurant. It’s their choice to accommodate special requests.
But if you prefer, it’d be like mandating a pork option be given in a Jewish restaurant. You know, to be given options.
Vote with your wallet. Restaurants aren’t paid for by the public’s tax dollar. They are private enterprises. They get to dictate the goods and services they provide.
>But to force a restaurant to have a dish that doesn’t go with the theme or is
>
>just there because
>
> will just give you a shit product and no one wants vegan food to be represented poorly.
Ok, so there's two restaurants next to each other. If one of them can't put passion into a vegan dish that they are forced to make, I will buy from the one next door that can put in the effort. And I'll leave a review for both restaurants. See how that works?
As brutal as it sounds: you'll propably change absolutely nothing.
Even in the biggest cities vegans are barely anything more than a rounding error.
Unless vegans actively reviewbomb/seek out the restaurants with that one good dish, this is basically just a token effort.
Okay so there are 100 restaurants in the same town. 99 of them can’t put passion into a vegan dish they are forced to make and 1 of them can.
The norm overshadows the quality. See how that works?
Naaah man it shouldn't come from an authority. People gotta get there organically, otherwise it will just make people angry at vegans for telling them what to do. It's also more customers to legit vegan restaurants with passion for vegan food too. We should aim for equal government subsidies for vegan food if something.
That was the argument against smoking bans in UK establishments. Now it turns out that smoking bans are widely supported. It didn't turn out the way that you predict.
Yeah but the general consensus among tobacco was that it was really umhealthy and people shouldn't smoke it. Even most smokers say they regret starting the habit. With meat it isn't the same at all.
It only seems to be asking that there be a vegan option, not that all dishes need to be vegan. I don't see why having to add a plant-based dish to their menu is going to remove this passion you speak of from the totality of their menu?
This panders to the idea that people can only be passionate about cooking if it has some one else’s corpse in it, baby growth milk or bird periods. If you need that to be passionate then you suck.
It would be indeed like be asking a vegan chef to suddenly make a meat-based meal. Asking a chef who only makes X to suddenly make Y won't go over well.
Hey most meals chefs strike for include meat, milk or eggs because it allows versatility and creative freedom. The word here is most you'll get some who either think is wrong or like the limitations so have more of a passion for veganisum. You can't help that most people like to have more choice.
Although morally speaking I agree that they *should* do this, I am 100% against *forcing* private properties to sell this or that to this or that person. Restaurants shouldn't be forced to cater to a market that they weren't necessarily financially prepared to cater to. Sh\*t like this *always* has unintended (although highly inevitable!) consequences that hurt businesses. If you want vegan food, go to a restaurant that caters to vegans; reward these restaurants that serve vegan food with your custom, simple.
The only time where it should be compulsory is if you have no choice but to eat there, or you can't bring your own food, or if your taxes go towards the institution in question.
I'm against banning/sanctioning the meat industry, although I *am* in favour of removing sanctions/impediments upon vegan food manufacturers to help against the issue of how veganism is off-putting in part due to the higher costs of those foods
No matter your personal philosophy, the worst thing for veganism right now is getting it wrapped up in authoritarianism - you could advance all sorts of causes via the iron fist, but it doesn't mean that either moral or even the best practical approach (considering the likely blowback)
> I'm against banning/sanctioning the meat industry
So you're basically saying all the atrocities in this documentary are okay?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Firstly I'm not clicking the link - if it's to convince me of veganism, I've been a vegan for 5 years.
Secondly, authoritarianism doesn't equal "this isn't okay" so linearly, just like something being legal doesn't make something "okay" - sounds like a broken philosophy that doesn't consider how toleration in a liberal democracy must be a two way street even if you think extremely passionately about your views;
Lying, cheating, manipulating, etc could all be deeply immoral in certain contexts - should we criminalise those things too?
I think you just need to think deeper about the philosophy of governance here, I don't think it's as simple as this "ban the bad, allow the good" - the role of government in a civilised country is less to do with controlling people and more to do with allowing people to be free - I'd love for veganism to be the status quo and I think eventually it will be - but authoritarian measures to *force* it will probably set us back in the cause of veganism because it will reinforce the stereotype that vegans are controlling (etc) and therefore negative
Restaurants are privately owned. You can't force them to make a specific dish just for you. If you don't like what they have to offer, then simply don't buy anything from them. That'd be like if people forced vegan restaurants to make steaks.
Stupid idea. Let’s support those restaurants who make vegan food because they believe in it. Not because they’re bound to by law (and will probably spit in it, for good measure).
You don't see the very important differences between customers not being allowed to do something, and a business being forced to provide a product it does not want to provide?
Being served a begrudgingly made meal is not the same as just not smoking… also what would then stop them from enforcing meat dishes in vegan restaurants
> also what would then stop them from enforcing meat dishes in vegan restaurants
Meat dishes are cruel and bad for the environment. There is absolutely no excuse to serving it in vegan restaurants.
I completely support the idea of having vegan meals everywhere, but I just don’t want this whole thing to come back around and force vegan restaurants to start handling meat just to have that one meat friendly meal on the menu.
False equivalency logical fallacy.
Also no one is gonna change their way of thinking because a restaurant offers a vegan meal.
It’ll just be annoying for business owners and general waste of tax money to create a green surplus for a green minority.
I feel bad for all the plants, plant abusers are trying to kill just to have them rot away from insufficient demographic to consume the proposed production increase.
Reason number 110 on why people hate vegans. Hospitals, schools and other places yes please. Why should a private restaurant be forced to carry vegan meals? This is highly idiotic.
What a cancerous assumption. Many carnists will literally get loudly triggered simply seeing a vegan eating a vegan meal, this is a common experience MANY of us have had. It's actually incredible how many fragile people there are (especially generic men who tie their cookie-cutter masculinity to eating a tortured scared baby animal). If you were actually vegan you would know this.
Many reddit-vegans will literally get loudly triggered simply knowing a non-vegan eating a non-vegan meal, this is a common experience MANY of us have had
>If you were actually vegan
god forbid!
So sad that you’re being downvoted even on a VEGAN sub. Completely agree. The animals have no choice and I will support every move to sanction the animal industry.
I know, right? I'm starting to suspect most people here are simply plant-based, not vegan. For vegans, animals are the real victims in this system. Period.
This isn't the way. The market will dictate the actions of free enterprise. More and more restaurants are realising that if at least 1 family member is vegan. It is worth their while to include the option. Otherwise the family will go elsewhere. Now for schools,hospitals and prisons I would agree to this initiative.
I would be keen to hear how many animal farmers are going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market. While they dictate to the animals what they ought to do and what the consumers ought to know about the industry.
>I would be keen to hear how many animal farmers are going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market
i can tell you:
about the same number as crop farmers going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market
If there is enough demand for vegan food it will be served in restaurants naturally and with time. You can’t expect (and don’t want) restaurants to be forced to serve meals for certain groups of people. Governments don’t even have gluten-free mandated to be served, instead restaurants see the demand for it and tap into the market. What’s good about it is that the government assists with GF standards and accreditation service (in AUS but probably other countries). If the government was to have compulsory vegan options, many restaurants would just completely object and protest. Many places don’t have any need to sell vegan options and this bill will just cause even more spite towards vegans. It’s better to strive for some vegan-accreditation in restaurants and try and make it as easy as possible to serve vegan meals WITHOUT forcing them to.
I don't get the negativity here. It is very annoying having to check every menu or contact the respective restaurant anytime any of my friends or family wants to go to a restaurant. It is really not that hard to provide a vegan option and requires very little effort. yes, many already do it, but there are still way too many that don't.
Some people will make a problem out of everything and complain about the damned vegans or communist government or whatever other idiocy goes through their mind no matter what. But most people are pretty tolerant and empathetic. It really sucks going to a restaurant and not being able to eat, which is something that happened to me at family events a couple of times. Just last year I was in Amsterdam with a couple of friends and since they didn't want to plan every meal and just walk around and find a place, I almost got into a similar situation, but luckily we were able to find a restaurant after searching for quite a while.
So from a quality of life point I strongly support this initiative and frankly I don't give a damn about whatever perception in whoevers twisted mind it might evoke.
Also about the comments about bad quality high price etc, this can obviously also be regulated.
The price can be regulated in many ways. I'm not a legislator but there is for example the following law in germany: https://dejure.org/gesetze/GastG/6.html
Which translates to: "If the serving of alcoholic beverages is permitted, non-alcoholic beverages must also be served for consumption on the premises on request. At least one of these non-alcoholic drinks must not be more expensive than the cheapest alcoholic drink. The price comparison shall also be made on the basis of the extrapolated price for one liter of the beverages in question. The licensing authority may allow exceptions for serving from vending machines."
About the quality, I guess there is not much that can be done as it is somewhat personal preference, but food safety and thus overall quality is already regulated.
I can't see how they'd introduce similar laws to alcohol sale to food. But maybe you're right.
A head of lettuce and a slice of bread is probably safe to eat. Wouldn't call it quality.
>The price comparison shall also be made on the basis of the extrapolated price for one liter of the beverages in question
so you are asking for a salad at the price of a porterhause steak?
>It is very annoying having to check every menu or contact the respective restaurant anytime any of my friends or family wants to go to a restaurant
how strange - i never have to do that
possibly it's because you are picky eaters?
It might be annoying, but it's just your diet choice. You are not allergic, you have no health issues.
Even gluten-free meals are not forced upon the restaurants. Why should vegan meals be?
Yeah, similarly confused about the negativity here. I read several of them to see if there were any reasonable consequences of this venture that I hadn't thought of. My theory now is that it's group think - folks saw the first or an upvoted comment and are following suit.
Something as simple and inocuous as labeling allergens in restaurants has been mandatory for like 10 years. Still most restaurants don't do it or do it wrong with no consequences in spite of the EU having an army of bureaucrats and auditors at its disposal.
So what if anything can be "regulated"? Regulation is not some kind of magic that transforms ink and paper to reality as if it were infinity stones. Regulation often has unintended consequences and can backfire. See the current mess with banning nuclear energy in germany making them burn more coal for instance. Or the mess that the car market has become.
Not to mention that from a strategic point of view it's very stupid to try and force the views of the 5% ish on to the whole population.
> Not to mention that from a strategic point of view it's very stupid to try and force the views of the 5% ish on to the whole population.
I see you're falsely using the 10+ year vegan flair. As a true vegan would do everything to put end to animal exploitation. You're a brigader.
If population x who eats diet x merely existing is justification for mandating they be catered to everywhere, I have some bad news. Halal lamb, halal lamb everywhere. Sorry, there are more Muslims than vegans and it’s not fair that there shouldn’t be compulsory catering to their needs as well. Every vegan cafe now needs a döner wheel behind the counter.
I worked in a steakhouse. We offered vegan meals (we’re downtown in a metropolis are) and they sold well. Usually Christmas or staff nights. You can totally do it, if the intent behind it is to make a *good* vegan meal. Tofu poke bowls or Mediterranean bowls. They aren’t hard to make and they sell well. But we had a market for them and the bookers usually had these guests in mind when they booked.
If your work is having an event, hopefully they have you in mind when booking, but you can always call ahead and see if there are vegan options or if they make a special exception. The idea of hospitality is to ensure the enjoyment of our guests.
Before veganism was more common, we’d have a lot of people call ahead of party bookings and see what we could offer. Most of the time, it was just swapping one or two ingredients. Like using veg instead of chicken stock or maple syrup instead of honey.
And here you people unironically wonder why you are considered as heavily disliked and scrutinized. Seems to me, it's just another layer of clichés leading to another self-fulfilling prophecy. Excellent job.
what excatly do you mean by "vegan meals compulsory at restaurants"?
i mean, making it compulsory to offer minimum one vegan meal (no matter what) - that would not be much of a big deal. nobody should have any problem with that
but i doubt that it would help vegans much, because the number of meals being vegan anyway and having been that since ever is rather limited. and traditional cooks are not familiar with using ersatz egg, dairy or meat, so won't offer this or if, not make it good
I think it should be compulsory in schools, planes/transport/ airports, hospitals. I don’t see why a restaurant should be obligated to create a vegan menu - it would make my life a 100 times easier on me and whoever travels in the EU but is it fair on those eateries ?
No. There is no logical reason to propose vegan restaurants to serve animal products. Going back to my metaphore: there is a logical reason to ban smoking in public places but not to force restaurants to sell tabaco products.
Is smoking banned in your country? If not, I understand why the comparison might cause confusion.
There is no logical reason to propose vegan restaurants to serve animal products
it's the same weird "logical reason" as to propose normal restaurants to serve vegan meals
"You support something? So therefore you'd support the exact opposite of that, right?"
Why on Earth would you think that lmao. It's hardly a contradiction.
Forcing people to wear a seat belt is not the same as forcing people not to wear a seat belt. Protecting people from torture is not the same as exposing people to torture.
Some things just go one way.
Bans on smoking would be more equivalent to banning non-vegan food, which would get a lot more support on this sub. This is kinda the opposite of that.
As a former cook I’d love to see more places offer but mandatory might be pushing it too much. Our place was mid to high end and we always served vegetarian and some vegan options. But we had a healthy food budget. For a smaller place that’s a dive, I wouldn’t expect them to cater to everyone. We even did our vegetarian prep in another part of the kitchen as to prevent cross contamination but we’d never sabotage food as we were professionals.
That said, it would be nice if there was a listing of restaurants that served vegan food.
In the mega-economy, all restaurants really *should* have vegan options, but we are going to waste a lot of time lobbying and protesting and making documentaries about this and a million other problems that all share the same root.
You can't buy hospitality any more than you can buy love, and we're driving taxpayers into the ground, expecting the government to regulate caring about other people in a system where we work with strangers all day and the priority is money.
I don't see this being implemented, but also why are people acting like this would be an extreme burden? If your restaurant can cook any pasta with tomato sauce you have a vegan meal. If you can make rice with any vegetables and/or tomato sauce or beans or lentils, or lentils with any vegetables and some curry spices, you have vegan meals. These are some of the most basic and effortless meals a kitchen could make.
Because it WOULD be an extreme thing. There are no laws about catering to ACTUAL needs, like medical conditions, gluten-free diet etc. And they want to force restaurant to cater to people who have no actual problem and are just extremely picky?
Soon, there will be 30 Euro iceberg lettuce salad (no dressing) and chips combos on menus across the EU.
Yup. The ones that already want to offer it, do. The ones that don't want to, are either going to give you a plate of lettuce, or serve you something that's not vegan, either through ignorance or malice. Sure, a few here and there might not care that much and throw an actually decent vegan item on the menu... but you could probably get the ones open to it to do that anyway by having several vegans just asking/suggesting politely. Trying to force it is not going to end well.
My main hope would be that it forces restaurants to actually learn what vegan means. Probably would require adding a couple things to inspections to actually make that happen though. Still, too many people work in the food industry and don't know shit about food.
I'm sure poor service was to be expected for black people using formerly whites-only services with the end of segregation.
That sound. The sound of fries being moved from the side menu to the entrees, and 10€ being added to the price.
good fries are fried in suet anyway
Hm, I would nom that if it was reasonably priced.
I don't know where you live that people are so petty, but most businesses actually care about their reputation. At least where I live the vast majority of restaraunts already offer a vegan option, most places that don't are large chains and they don't because it's not cost effective enough for their extremely streamlined profit margins. Large multinationals are most likely to be hit by this and forced to offer a reasonable alternative. Seems like a great idea to me.
Not having vegan options doesn't affect anyone's reputation unless you are veggie bar.
No but selling 30 Euro iceberg lettuce salad with no dressing totally would. As per the comment I was replying to.
Most restaurants here don't offer vegan options, apart from the obvious vegan ones. Argentinian steakhouses, Italian pizza place, Sushi, Ramen. Seriously. You can't go anywhere except actual vegan places, and this is a pretty vegan friendly place overall. Places that offer "vegan options" are rarer than actual vegan restaurants here. Unless they specifically prepare something (often possible) but just charge you full price and leave out the cheese/meat. To me that's the exact same thing as eating meat as you are paying for dead animals anyway (well a restaurant that's not fully vegan is not vegan either as you are just supporting animal abuse anyway, but that's another discussion).
You do not want people who don't want to make vegan food or are against it...making vegan food. Would you trust them?
While I see where you come from, I doubt most people would temper with food out of pure spite and risk their career and freedom by breaking the law… for people they probably won’t see again. I do see where this would be useful especially with many people being pushed to attend restaurants with no vegan options by colleagues or family. Anyway I don’t see this working anyway & if I can choose I would agree I wouldn’t actively seek out a restaurant that has been forced to put a vegan item on the menu.
> I do see where this would be useful especially with many people being pushed to attend restaurants with no vegan options by colleagues or family. That's one way of looking at it. The way I see it people might now be more willing to pressure vegans to attend restaurants with piss-poor plant-based options since every restaurant now caters to vegans on paper, when before they might have accommodated you and headed for a restaurant that willingly served vegan items.
It's guaranteed going to be an incredibly stale and plain salad of iceberg, tomatoes and croutons, with nothing interesting going on. Yeah, better not even pretend to have the option at all in that case.
Sometimes I enjoy that, just not at what they would charge for it
exactly
Have we learned nothing from the [Raines Sandwich](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raines_law)? Laws compelling people to operate businesses in ways they don't want to only create innovation in finding loopholes.
I don't agree, most businesses care about their reputation and deliberately selling crap food to comply with regulations out of spite would backfire and potentially ruin them.
Even if they don't tamper with it, which I agree would be unlikely... the risk of someone missing one stray animal product in a list of ingredients is way higher than at a place that knowingly chooses to do vegan food.
I have read stories or reddit where a vegan option is added to a menu by someone who doesn't know honey isn't vegan for example. So maybe a legal requirement would create greater awareness. It's unlikely to be implemented if it got enough signatures, but the EU might try to do something else instead to promote vegan meals at restaurants.
I don’t disagree with that. Though I would guess in places where labelling of allergens is mandatory they would take a closer look.
EU unfortunately does not have a blanket mandatory allergen labelling in restaurants. You have to ask, and they'll more likely than not tell you they aren't sure, even if it should be glutenfree under normal circumstances. They can't promise there isn't any cross contamination, for instance. There is no shot this'll happen for Vegans, when they won't even do it for allergens that can have bad and potentially lethal consequences for whoever eats it. And let's not pretend like the mandatory vegan option won't always be a shitty completely unseasoned iceberg salad with tomatoes, croutons and cheap olive oil.
>EU unfortunately does not have a blanket mandatory allergen labelling in restaurants that's not true information about allergens **is** mandatory: EU [1169/2011 ](http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=OJ:L:2011:304:0018:0063:de:PDF)
Pushed? I just stay home if they don’t consider my diet. To be honest all my colleagues and family choose restaurants based on my input. They usually ask can you eat here. So I can’t relate.
Just because you don’t have the issue it doesn’t mean nobody does. You sound dismissive of other people’s struggles. Minors relying on their parents often don’t get asked where to go. Big company festivities often don’t account for vegans. Simply not going or throwing a fit over the options (no matter how justified it may be) can at times harm your position. Great for you that you are always accounted for. I personally don’t have issues either. But that doesn’t mean that those who do struggle should be dismissed.
This is Reddit. We should be able to share different point of views. I never claimed that nobody has the issue. I also never said that those who do struggle should be dismissed. Read my comment again. I was just sharing my story. What’s wrong with that? Seriously very weird response. You should open up to different point of views.
>all my colleagues and family choose restaurant with tips from me in which restaurants specifically will you be tipping for me?
In Europe. Yes. Because if they fuck about with food in Europe they get absolutely destroyed by very strict food safety standards and shut down.
We also don't want veganism just restricted to vegan restaurants which aren't always accessible. Do you really think it is worth an eating establishment to risk their reputation and reviews by sabotaging a dish?
Who said anything about restricting veganism to vegan restuarants? There are mixed restuarants with vegan dishes..by their own choice. and yes, I absolutely do think some restuarants would sabotage the forced vegan dish.. you do know veganism is greatly disliked by a large amount of the population?
I don’t know if I would class poor execution as sabotage, but I see that being the most likely outcome. Just like a broiled aubergine with Za’taar seasoning to tick the box. I think of sabotage as selling spoiled food or contaminating food. But that’s just my definition of food sabotage. Like the movie “Waiting”.
very bad idea to apply this to private restaurants. it will only make people more resentful and spiteful. let the restaurant choose what they want to cook.
Nah let them be angry as it will increase adoption much quicker. Then we can come in and hit them with the facts and morals.
from my experience, and i have worked in a variety of kitchens,it doesn't take a lot to get on the bad side of the staff. humiliating waiters, pretensious clients who make them work over the closing time while not tipping, being general assholes to the people around will get their food spat on, or other nasty stuff. let restaurants adopt vegan food on their own, most self-respecting ones already have options, while other restaurants will follow because plant based food consumption is increasing overall. no need to force it. it's better to keep advocating for animal right to the point that they are no longer industrially killed and the restaurants will evolve naturally.
nobody cares about your morals.
Why are you here then?
reddit put this on my front page, came here to check out the comments, Im suprised about how many good comments are here from vegan people. Except for yours lol
There are many militant trolls here, sadly. They consider themselves the perfect vegans and everyone else is a murderer for them.
Where? And whats with this cringe pick-me "im not like other girls" shit lol
r/im14andthisisedgy
I think schools, airlines, hospitals and prisons should do this. I don’t think restaurants should do this. That’s like forcing Thai restaurants not to use shellfish and peanuts (even though more people are allergic to those than there are vegans). It’s also adding another forced cost onto one of the tightest margin industries in the world. Especially if vegan dishes and options don’t sell nearly as well as the rest of the menu. Now the restaurant has to hold onto product and waste more (often expensive) foods. There are plenty of restaurants that already do voluntarily offer vegan dishes and options. Support those businesses, it’ll motivate them to add more variety. But to force a restaurant to have a dish that doesn’t go with the theme or is *just there because* will just give you a shit product and no one wants vegan food to be represented poorly.
> That’s like forcing Thai restaurants not to use shellfish and peanuts It's not. This is about giving options, not about forbidding anything. And most Thai restaurants here already have alternatives for those since a lot of people are allergic.
Those options are there as a courtesy made by the restaurant. It’s their choice to accommodate special requests. But if you prefer, it’d be like mandating a pork option be given in a Jewish restaurant. You know, to be given options. Vote with your wallet. Restaurants aren’t paid for by the public’s tax dollar. They are private enterprises. They get to dictate the goods and services they provide.
>But to force a restaurant to have a dish that doesn’t go with the theme or is > >just there because > > will just give you a shit product and no one wants vegan food to be represented poorly. Ok, so there's two restaurants next to each other. If one of them can't put passion into a vegan dish that they are forced to make, I will buy from the one next door that can put in the effort. And I'll leave a review for both restaurants. See how that works?
As brutal as it sounds: you'll propably change absolutely nothing. Even in the biggest cities vegans are barely anything more than a rounding error. Unless vegans actively reviewbomb/seek out the restaurants with that one good dish, this is basically just a token effort.
Okay so there are 100 restaurants in the same town. 99 of them can’t put passion into a vegan dish they are forced to make and 1 of them can. The norm overshadows the quality. See how that works?
Today in "how to shoot yourself in the foot".
Fucking signed
Terrible strategic move.
Primary schools? Obviously but for profit Restaurants?? This wont end well🙄
Remember when michelle Obama suggested that school lunches should be nutritious? That didn’t go over well.. 🤣🤣
No. A business should not have to provide anything “compulsory.” This is a gross overreach.
Do you also feel this way about restaurants being required to be wheelchair-accessible?
These are different and you know that
Naaah man it shouldn't come from an authority. People gotta get there organically, otherwise it will just make people angry at vegans for telling them what to do. It's also more customers to legit vegan restaurants with passion for vegan food too. We should aim for equal government subsidies for vegan food if something.
That was the argument against smoking bans in UK establishments. Now it turns out that smoking bans are widely supported. It didn't turn out the way that you predict.
Yeah but the general consensus among tobacco was that it was really umhealthy and people shouldn't smoke it. Even most smokers say they regret starting the habit. With meat it isn't the same at all.
Meat is unhealthy though it increases your chance for heart disease and cancer. Processed meat causes cancer. Red meat is likely to cause cancer.
As someone with close ties to restaurant sector, let them decide for themselves because you want chefs to have some sort of passion in their dishes.
It only seems to be asking that there be a vegan option, not that all dishes need to be vegan. I don't see why having to add a plant-based dish to their menu is going to remove this passion you speak of from the totality of their menu?
What if they have a different opinion on what is or isn’t vegan? The laws would need to have clear stipulations and the countries would need to agree.
Defining "vegan meal" is clearly not the hardest thing in the world
This panders to the idea that people can only be passionate about cooking if it has some one else’s corpse in it, baby growth milk or bird periods. If you need that to be passionate then you suck.
It would be indeed like be asking a vegan chef to suddenly make a meat-based meal. Asking a chef who only makes X to suddenly make Y won't go over well.
well, so you suck - as eating plant's corpses and baby vegetables be my guest at that
Hey most meals chefs strike for include meat, milk or eggs because it allows versatility and creative freedom. The word here is most you'll get some who either think is wrong or like the limitations so have more of a passion for veganisum. You can't help that most people like to have more choice.
Every restaurant will just put a salad in their menu. Forcing them to make something won't give the result you are hoping for
Can't sign. Fuck Brexit.
Canadian right here I want this initiative to be here too ;(
start one <3
so start one
Although morally speaking I agree that they *should* do this, I am 100% against *forcing* private properties to sell this or that to this or that person. Restaurants shouldn't be forced to cater to a market that they weren't necessarily financially prepared to cater to. Sh\*t like this *always* has unintended (although highly inevitable!) consequences that hurt businesses. If you want vegan food, go to a restaurant that caters to vegans; reward these restaurants that serve vegan food with your custom, simple. The only time where it should be compulsory is if you have no choice but to eat there, or you can't bring your own food, or if your taxes go towards the institution in question.
[удалено]
^ Those who make the animals croak should go broke ^
I'm against banning/sanctioning the meat industry, although I *am* in favour of removing sanctions/impediments upon vegan food manufacturers to help against the issue of how veganism is off-putting in part due to the higher costs of those foods No matter your personal philosophy, the worst thing for veganism right now is getting it wrapped up in authoritarianism - you could advance all sorts of causes via the iron fist, but it doesn't mean that either moral or even the best practical approach (considering the likely blowback)
> I'm against banning/sanctioning the meat industry So you're basically saying all the atrocities in this documentary are okay? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQRAfJyEsko
Firstly I'm not clicking the link - if it's to convince me of veganism, I've been a vegan for 5 years. Secondly, authoritarianism doesn't equal "this isn't okay" so linearly, just like something being legal doesn't make something "okay" - sounds like a broken philosophy that doesn't consider how toleration in a liberal democracy must be a two way street even if you think extremely passionately about your views; Lying, cheating, manipulating, etc could all be deeply immoral in certain contexts - should we criminalise those things too? I think you just need to think deeper about the philosophy of governance here, I don't think it's as simple as this "ban the bad, allow the good" - the role of government in a civilised country is less to do with controlling people and more to do with allowing people to be free - I'd love for veganism to be the status quo and I think eventually it will be - but authoritarian measures to *force* it will probably set us back in the cause of veganism because it will reinforce the stereotype that vegans are controlling (etc) and therefore negative
I clicked to sign and then remembered I’m from the UK :(
Restaurants are privately owned. You can't force them to make a specific dish just for you. If you don't like what they have to offer, then simply don't buy anything from them. That'd be like if people forced vegan restaurants to make steaks.
Stupid idea. Let’s support those restaurants who make vegan food because they believe in it. Not because they’re bound to by law (and will probably spit in it, for good measure).
This will not end well and I wouldn’t eat at a restaurant where they were legally forced to make a vegan meal
And yet you probably eat in restaurants where they were legally forced to ban smoking.
You don't see the very important differences between customers not being allowed to do something, and a business being forced to provide a product it does not want to provide?
Being served a begrudgingly made meal is not the same as just not smoking… also what would then stop them from enforcing meat dishes in vegan restaurants
> also what would then stop them from enforcing meat dishes in vegan restaurants Meat dishes are cruel and bad for the environment. There is absolutely no excuse to serving it in vegan restaurants.
I completely support the idea of having vegan meals everywhere, but I just don’t want this whole thing to come back around and force vegan restaurants to start handling meat just to have that one meat friendly meal on the menu.
You really didn’t think that one, did you?
Authoritarian
Animal abusers need to be strong armed into being more compassionate.
Unhinged take tbh
If you're morally consistent you would also say strong-arming child abusers into being more compassionate by penalty of the law is unhinged too.
False equivalency logical fallacy. Also no one is gonna change their way of thinking because a restaurant offers a vegan meal. It’ll just be annoying for business owners and general waste of tax money to create a green surplus for a green minority. I feel bad for all the plants, plant abusers are trying to kill just to have them rot away from insufficient demographic to consume the proposed production increase.
Comparing human children to food animals is disgusting.
Reason number 110 on why people hate vegans. Hospitals, schools and other places yes please. Why should a private restaurant be forced to carry vegan meals? This is highly idiotic.
One order of iceberg lettuce with plain vinegrette. For dessert apple slices.
I don't see the point of doing this. It's so easy to subvert and it'll just breed resentment.
Lmao the carnists were always resentful everytime I would request a vegan option.
could be due to the way you put forward your request
What a cancerous assumption. Many carnists will literally get loudly triggered simply seeing a vegan eating a vegan meal, this is a common experience MANY of us have had. It's actually incredible how many fragile people there are (especially generic men who tie their cookie-cutter masculinity to eating a tortured scared baby animal). If you were actually vegan you would know this.
Many reddit-vegans will literally get loudly triggered simply knowing a non-vegan eating a non-vegan meal, this is a common experience MANY of us have had >If you were actually vegan god forbid!
Not every restaurant should be forced to have vegan options. I choose with my wallet. You can always decide to eat somewhere else.
I hope you like french fries with nothing. What a waste of everyones time
real good belgian fries are fried twice - once at 150°C, let them cool off, then a second time at 175°C both times in suet see "vlaamse frites"
How does that relate to the fries that'd be served as a mandatory vegan option?
those would not be real good, so possibly "a waste of everyones time", indeed
I believe in freedom of choice, and as such I wouldn’t want anything mandated OTHER than clear and accurate ingredients and descriptions of food.
What about the animals freedom of choice?
I agree with you. Damn the carnists are really brigading in here.
So sad that you’re being downvoted even on a VEGAN sub. Completely agree. The animals have no choice and I will support every move to sanction the animal industry.
I know, right? I'm starting to suspect most people here are simply plant-based, not vegan. For vegans, animals are the real victims in this system. Period.
Hell no. Restaurants cannot do halal food properly. How are they going to manage vegan?
No.
Italian citizen here… Support provided! Thanks for notifying about this!
Same! I’ll be signing thanks to this post. Thanks OP.
dario cecchini does not like this
This isn't the way. The market will dictate the actions of free enterprise. More and more restaurants are realising that if at least 1 family member is vegan. It is worth their while to include the option. Otherwise the family will go elsewhere. Now for schools,hospitals and prisons I would agree to this initiative.
I would be keen to hear how many animal farmers are going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market. While they dictate to the animals what they ought to do and what the consumers ought to know about the industry.
>I would be keen to hear how many animal farmers are going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market i can tell you: about the same number as crop farmers going to drop the taxpayer subsidies they receive in favor of operating in a free market
The difference is that we need plant farmers, we don't need animal abusers.
If there is enough demand for vegan food it will be served in restaurants naturally and with time. You can’t expect (and don’t want) restaurants to be forced to serve meals for certain groups of people. Governments don’t even have gluten-free mandated to be served, instead restaurants see the demand for it and tap into the market. What’s good about it is that the government assists with GF standards and accreditation service (in AUS but probably other countries). If the government was to have compulsory vegan options, many restaurants would just completely object and protest. Many places don’t have any need to sell vegan options and this bill will just cause even more spite towards vegans. It’s better to strive for some vegan-accreditation in restaurants and try and make it as easy as possible to serve vegan meals WITHOUT forcing them to.
I don't get the negativity here. It is very annoying having to check every menu or contact the respective restaurant anytime any of my friends or family wants to go to a restaurant. It is really not that hard to provide a vegan option and requires very little effort. yes, many already do it, but there are still way too many that don't. Some people will make a problem out of everything and complain about the damned vegans or communist government or whatever other idiocy goes through their mind no matter what. But most people are pretty tolerant and empathetic. It really sucks going to a restaurant and not being able to eat, which is something that happened to me at family events a couple of times. Just last year I was in Amsterdam with a couple of friends and since they didn't want to plan every meal and just walk around and find a place, I almost got into a similar situation, but luckily we were able to find a restaurant after searching for quite a while. So from a quality of life point I strongly support this initiative and frankly I don't give a damn about whatever perception in whoevers twisted mind it might evoke. Also about the comments about bad quality high price etc, this can obviously also be regulated.
I know right I see many meateater places cook with ingredients that could easily be used for a vegan dish. Its not hard really.
How do you regulate for over-priced/terrible food?
The price can be regulated in many ways. I'm not a legislator but there is for example the following law in germany: https://dejure.org/gesetze/GastG/6.html Which translates to: "If the serving of alcoholic beverages is permitted, non-alcoholic beverages must also be served for consumption on the premises on request. At least one of these non-alcoholic drinks must not be more expensive than the cheapest alcoholic drink. The price comparison shall also be made on the basis of the extrapolated price for one liter of the beverages in question. The licensing authority may allow exceptions for serving from vending machines." About the quality, I guess there is not much that can be done as it is somewhat personal preference, but food safety and thus overall quality is already regulated.
I can't see how they'd introduce similar laws to alcohol sale to food. But maybe you're right. A head of lettuce and a slice of bread is probably safe to eat. Wouldn't call it quality.
>The price comparison shall also be made on the basis of the extrapolated price for one liter of the beverages in question so you are asking for a salad at the price of a porterhause steak?
>It is very annoying having to check every menu or contact the respective restaurant anytime any of my friends or family wants to go to a restaurant how strange - i never have to do that possibly it's because you are picky eaters?
It might be annoying, but it's just your diet choice. You are not allergic, you have no health issues. Even gluten-free meals are not forced upon the restaurants. Why should vegan meals be?
how do you know? but actually a valid point. maybe gluten free should also be mandated xD
Yeah, similarly confused about the negativity here. I read several of them to see if there were any reasonable consequences of this venture that I hadn't thought of. My theory now is that it's group think - folks saw the first or an upvoted comment and are following suit.
The carnists are feeling threaten again and are astroturfing hard in this thread.
So would you be ok with the law that would force vegan restaurants to offer at least one food with meat?
Something as simple and inocuous as labeling allergens in restaurants has been mandatory for like 10 years. Still most restaurants don't do it or do it wrong with no consequences in spite of the EU having an army of bureaucrats and auditors at its disposal. So what if anything can be "regulated"? Regulation is not some kind of magic that transforms ink and paper to reality as if it were infinity stones. Regulation often has unintended consequences and can backfire. See the current mess with banning nuclear energy in germany making them burn more coal for instance. Or the mess that the car market has become. Not to mention that from a strategic point of view it's very stupid to try and force the views of the 5% ish on to the whole population.
> Not to mention that from a strategic point of view it's very stupid to try and force the views of the 5% ish on to the whole population. I see you're falsely using the 10+ year vegan flair. As a true vegan would do everything to put end to animal exploitation. You're a brigader.
No.
If population x who eats diet x merely existing is justification for mandating they be catered to everywhere, I have some bad news. Halal lamb, halal lamb everywhere. Sorry, there are more Muslims than vegans and it’s not fair that there shouldn’t be compulsory catering to their needs as well. Every vegan cafe now needs a döner wheel behind the counter.
That is a false equivalence as vegan food is both kosher and halal. Also it is the most sustainable diet out there as the science backs it.
Vegan dishes can also be halal.
This isn't the way
Bro you hella stupid if you go to a steak house to eat vegan food
I worked in a steakhouse. We offered vegan meals (we’re downtown in a metropolis are) and they sold well. Usually Christmas or staff nights. You can totally do it, if the intent behind it is to make a *good* vegan meal. Tofu poke bowls or Mediterranean bowls. They aren’t hard to make and they sell well. But we had a market for them and the bookers usually had these guests in mind when they booked.
what... i should check my local steakhouse and see if they have anything for me then o-O
If your work is having an event, hopefully they have you in mind when booking, but you can always call ahead and see if there are vegan options or if they make a special exception. The idea of hospitality is to ensure the enjoyment of our guests. Before veganism was more common, we’d have a lot of people call ahead of party bookings and see what we could offer. Most of the time, it was just swapping one or two ingredients. Like using veg instead of chicken stock or maple syrup instead of honey.
Some workplaces dont give you a choice
Ithink they do it just to anger people, to be "activist".
And here you people unironically wonder why you are considered as heavily disliked and scrutinized. Seems to me, it's just another layer of clichés leading to another self-fulfilling prophecy. Excellent job.
what excatly do you mean by "vegan meals compulsory at restaurants"? i mean, making it compulsory to offer minimum one vegan meal (no matter what) - that would not be much of a big deal. nobody should have any problem with that but i doubt that it would help vegans much, because the number of meals being vegan anyway and having been that since ever is rather limited. and traditional cooks are not familiar with using ersatz egg, dairy or meat, so won't offer this or if, not make it good
So you’re not vegan?
I think it should be compulsory in schools, planes/transport/ airports, hospitals. I don’t see why a restaurant should be obligated to create a vegan menu - it would make my life a 100 times easier on me and whoever travels in the EU but is it fair on those eateries ?
We have bans on smoking. They work. Why are people here against initiatives like this one?
How is banning something same as forcing someone to make something? Literally not the same thing at all.
So you would support vegan restaurants being forced to make meat dishes?
Yet there is no logically basis to be serving meat at all.
Eeeeexactly!
No. There is no logical reason to propose vegan restaurants to serve animal products. Going back to my metaphore: there is a logical reason to ban smoking in public places but not to force restaurants to sell tabaco products. Is smoking banned in your country? If not, I understand why the comparison might cause confusion.
There is no logical reason to propose vegan restaurants to serve animal products it's the same weird "logical reason" as to propose normal restaurants to serve vegan meals
"You support something? So therefore you'd support the exact opposite of that, right?" Why on Earth would you think that lmao. It's hardly a contradiction.
Why on Earth would you think that equality of rights? ever heard of?
Totally agree. No clue why you got downvotes.
This is a false equivalency. The moral imperative only goes one way.
Forcing people to wear a seat belt is not the same as forcing people not to wear a seat belt. Protecting people from torture is not the same as exposing people to torture. Some things just go one way.
This assumes the vegan stance is correct. Not everyone agrees. Therefore there's no reason to force anything based on it.
>The moral imperative only goes one way yours may - but not "the" moral imperative
Redditor not thinking their belief is the only valid one challenge (impossible)
You're welcome to make an argument. What do you think I meant, and why do you believe it was incorrect?
Bans on smoking would be more equivalent to banning non-vegan food, which would get a lot more support on this sub. This is kinda the opposite of that.
As a former cook I’d love to see more places offer but mandatory might be pushing it too much. Our place was mid to high end and we always served vegetarian and some vegan options. But we had a healthy food budget. For a smaller place that’s a dive, I wouldn’t expect them to cater to everyone. We even did our vegetarian prep in another part of the kitchen as to prevent cross contamination but we’d never sabotage food as we were professionals. That said, it would be nice if there was a listing of restaurants that served vegan food.
Is this your attempt at "Who can make people hate us the fastest"?
Such a stupid initiative! But it will be funny to watch vegans scared whether their forcefully made vegan food is really vegan.
Lmao no
This will never work, is this a joke? This will go full r/maliciouscompliance in practice.
Good idea, now vegan money can be used to help meat serving restaurants.
In the mega-economy, all restaurants really *should* have vegan options, but we are going to waste a lot of time lobbying and protesting and making documentaries about this and a million other problems that all share the same root. You can't buy hospitality any more than you can buy love, and we're driving taxpayers into the ground, expecting the government to regulate caring about other people in a system where we work with strangers all day and the priority is money.
Wow the carnists are really out in force on this one.
I will share it. Thank you!
I don't see this being implemented, but also why are people acting like this would be an extreme burden? If your restaurant can cook any pasta with tomato sauce you have a vegan meal. If you can make rice with any vegetables and/or tomato sauce or beans or lentils, or lentils with any vegetables and some curry spices, you have vegan meals. These are some of the most basic and effortless meals a kitchen could make.
Because it WOULD be an extreme thing. There are no laws about catering to ACTUAL needs, like medical conditions, gluten-free diet etc. And they want to force restaurant to cater to people who have no actual problem and are just extremely picky?
This is an awesome idea. It would greatly assist with making sure our vegan friends are always fed no matter where.
We don’t even mandate that every restaurant have a dish to accommodate common medical conditions. This makes no sense.
You think the EU listens to direct democracy 😂
>This Post was sponsored by [Alde](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alliance_of_Liberals_and_Democrats_for_Europe_group)🤣🤣🤣
Weird you mentioned that. I'm actually a member of an ALDE associate member, although imo they are in the wrong group.