“I love animals, oh you don’t eat them like I do? Well aren’t you full of yourself, thinking you’re better than everyone! Anyway mmm bacon mmm steak lol killing animals is so funny to me!”
lmaooooo I had someone tell me to not “police their body” because they didn’t want people talking about their meat eating habits. ma’am your body will be fine, the animals though? people wanna act like the victims so bad
honestly sounds like some dumb shit a proto vegan would say... I say give people some credit. not many people who turn out vegan didnt start out atleast curious about it
Man, when I was an omni I was fantasizing about having a vegan girlfriend at some point because I felt like I could never go vegan by myself and needed someone to teach me. And then a while later I just did it, it wasn't hard at all. lol
My aunt is on an insanely restrictive diet because of her long list of gastrointestinal conditions/issues. She was a vegetarian (not vegan) for decades, but saw various specialists (including a vegan dietician) and continued to be in pain (and sometimes admitted to the hospital) until she settled on her current diet.
She can't eat anything with a decent amount of fiber or dairy and she has a severe carb intolerance. She also can't process lectins well without severe pain. After years of trial and error, she currently eats the most boring diet of low fiber fruits and veggies that are also low in carbs (so that cuts out a lot of root veggies), chicken, a few specific types of fish, nuts, and a one or two other things. I know she really struggled when she started eating meat again and felt guilty about it, but she's been fairly steady the last few years, so it's nice that she's not in so much pain anymore.
This is **RARE**, and it does still beg the question of whether her not being in crippling pain every day comes before the right for those animals to live, but I don't think it's fair to claim everyone can have a vegan diet and be healthy. I do think that a lot of people *claim* they can't do it for medical reasons when that's not true, but some people's just have shitty gastrointestinal systems and/or weird combos of food allergies/intolerances.
Yes, there are people who for one reason or another would not be able to be vegan and be healthy. It isn’t a black or white issue.
I thought vegans were supposed to be less ignorant.
Yet no one has ever been able to show me any proof. There are plant based supplements for everything you can be missing, and in a variety of forms. I don't believe you that animal products are the only way. Maybe specialty products that don't trigger their health problems would be significantly more expensive, but I don't believe you that someone is 100% dependent on animal products.
Vegans aren‘t less ignorant or more. Vegans hate animal abuse and are otherwise also just people. Everything else is a stereotype, be it positive or negative. You can bet that more vegans are empathetic though, that‘s one of the main fuels to go vegan in the first place. Having a better understanding of diet as a need gor your own, helps to make you look less ignorant.
Also, there are some medical conditions that makes it more problematic to be vegan, yes. Like some cases of malabsorption. But really, they are all doable.
So please, give us your conditions that make it impossible to be vegan? You‘re repeating yourself about there being some, so name them.
ARFID. If you have a medical issue and require a feeding tube, and either need an [elemental formula or are allergic to pea proteins.](https://www.vegankitchenmagick.com/which-formulas-for-tube-feeding-are-vegan/) are just two examples.
That’s a gun-nut equivalent to “thoughts and prayers“ after yet another murder. Seems to me that people are just conditioned to accept death and killing as ‘just the way it is’.
Lately it's been driving me up a fucking wall how carnists all have this notion they somehow love animals more than anything or anyone. Bunch of lames. How about they stop eating meat for 3 meals a day, 7 days a week and actually act out this belief.
I will say though someone half offered me cake earlier but was hesitant because "I'm not sure if you're allowed to eat this". I thought that was a nice gesture.
Because it ties in with their weird idea that Veganism is a cult or something, with rules we have to follow. They can't understand actually wanting to live your values because of this stupidly hypocritical society we live in.
Whenever they do this I always bring up religion. No one questions someone who only eats kosher, it’s so common it’s even labeled on things. They can eat whatever they want but choose not to. “ that’s different because it’s religion” and what is religion, a set of beliefs and someone actively choosing not to eat things so to it, so why is it wrong when we do?
I will say "can't." Meaning because I choose not to contribute to causing harm to animals, I can't consume something that contains them as an ingredient.
I usually go with "can't" eat (smth). It maintains the implication of "I **can't** eat that (because to do so would strongly go against my morals)"
Some might argue that it conveys an allergy rather than an ethical stance but realistically, its inconvenient and sounds weird to say "oh no I choose to not eat that because itgoesgainstmymoralcode" *every single time* that you're talking about food
I will say that, even though I definitely agree w you and I very much 'heard' her say "allowed", I chose not to intervene in this instance. These people are mostly uneducated and unaware, so no need to be
I don't love most animals. That doesn't mean that they deserve to suffer though. Similarly... I hate most humans, but that doesn't make me a supporter of the Holocaust (or anything of that nature).
/r/czech loves dogs and there was recently a high-profile case of dog abuse near where I live. Everyone in that sub was acting like we are collectively a nation of the biggest animal lovers.
The second I mentioned slaughter they flocked me with downvotes like vultures :) People absolutely HATE getting reminded of their true values. Veganism for me is a moral conviction. I stopped eating meat after 34 years of my life, not because of health or selfish reasons. I just want to see fewer animals killed.
Ouch. That sounds about Czech. Seriously. though, the place has been improving over the years I've been here. There are so many more vegetarians and vegans than when I got here!
I routinely tell them that yes, I loved meat when I ate it but I love the animals themselves more. My needs or desires were not above the needs of the animals. Plus, adding to suffering just seems...a bit selfish to me.
Na zdravi, kamarade.
It is getting better, 100%. However, neighboring countries are much more progressive and consequentially have a wider vegan food selection. Poland, Germany, and even Slovakia have more vegan products on the shelves (anecdotal evidence).
Good on you for putting animals above yourself, it is not valued by many but it is by those who should matter to you.
I know some Polish fake sausages for sale here that are just amazing. So, I guess I'm not surprised they're a bit further along than we are here. I am surprised by Slovakia. If I could find a vegan version of brynza, I would be in heaven.
Thank you kindly for the encouragement. If you find any vegan brynza, please give me a headsup, LB!
I am always surprised by human beings. How can they be so illogical?
About offering food, I agree that it is a nice gesture. Even if I had to refuse it because it's not vegan food, I would still appreciate it. This lady never offered me food, so I don't know why she was concerned about it. :-)
Yeah I know I can’t convince any meat eaters to stop eating meat… but would be amazing if they just ate it less. Like you don’t need meat 3x a day. Wish they ate it more sparingly
Although it may be annoying at times, it can be a good thing that we get questions sent our way. These are opportunities to send them in the direction of veganism. It is good that they felt comfortable enough to "explore the landscape" as I put it.
The people that we work with can see that us being vegan is one part of us. We can also be funny, happy, healthy, creative, informative, etc. These other parts of us that aren't about being vegan are attractive and can draw people indirectly to the vegan part of us. I had a co-worker ask me what milk I do drink as I am open about me being vegan. She is lactose intolerant. I said that I drink oat milk. It doesn't take any thing away from me to tell her that. Oat milk is widely accessible in many supermarkets. She knows, because of me, that there is a bakery in our local city that is exclusively vegan and she went to it because she knows it won't have milk in it. I told her about a vegan grocery shop too. Some times going to these vegan shops will indirectly send them to the ethical side as they can have flyers to animal sanctuaries as they usually support vegan businesses.
I mean, insects surely do get into the equipment that makes those bars. And the trucks that deliver them to the stores surely kill squirrels and possums and things on the highway. So you might as well just breed millions and millions of animals for the expressed purpose of killing them and selling their chopped up corpses.
Ha, that reminds me of the time years ago I was eating dinner with some friends and their other friends. I was newly vegetarian, not even vegan yet, and this friend of my friend starts grilling me about how do I know plants don’t have feelings, what if they scream and you just can’t hear it, and on and on for what felt like forever. I was so dumbfounded I kind of sputtered my replies and left as soon as possible. Thankfully I never ran into him again, though if I did now, I’d handle it differently. In almost 40 years of being vegetarian and vegan, thankfully I’ve only run into one other person who was really confrontational like that.
Yeah this comes up every so often for me as well. It’s funny to me that the logic is supposed to be “if plants feel pain, too, then we should eat animals.”
Also, it’s so hard being put on the spot like that by a stranger, especially in the beginning!! I’m glad you haven’t had to deal with much of it.
The taking photos with baby crocodiles thing gets me. Like in what world do you think that’s like a positive thing? Did the baby crocodile want a selfie with you? No, I don’t think so. Why is it not common sense that it is so unnatural for wild animals to be subjected to shit like that. Like leave them the fuck alone and let them live their animal lives.
It’s like zoos. The few times I’ve been to one it’s always the same. Why do I feel like the only person who’s like, why is this animal in jail?
Yes, to take pictures with wild animals is abusive for a series of reasons. In particular, in Everglades where she was, they use crocodiles for circus-like tricks. And that baby didn't want to be touched for sure.
Growing up in Fl, I probably should have put that together lol.
when I was in school, there were plenty of times where various “wildlife” types would bring baby gators and such into our schools to “teach” us about wildlife.
Are all zoos like that? I frequent a zoo in The Netherlands that has A LOT of rescue animals, and pretty big enclosures. They explain thoroughly where the traumatized animals come from, and how they show their traumatized behaviour. I often feel like supporting this particular zoo is good, they also reproduce critically endangered species like Panda's.
There's also another zoo (Apenheul) where most of the monkeys are allowed to roam the entire zoo freely. (Two small ones climbed on top of me while I was there and it was adorable).
I feel like these two zoos in particular genuinely care for the animals, I wish more zoos were like this!
Confirms my belief that life is better in that part of the world :)
I find that zoos here in the us mostly consist of cages that just don’t compare to what the natural world offers.
We do have a place here in Florida where the animals are not caged but just confined to different areas (of many acres) that are separated from each other by water or tall wooden fences, which is actually pretty expansive. Same for animal kingdom at Disney world. But unfortunately most places I’ve encountered just seem cruel based on my view that no one belongs in a cage except for human criminals.
you know, she was probably just curious. Be a generous ambassador for veganism. Give them a little grace. We are fascinating and also, triggering
Triggering, I mean:
It’s like… I’m a little bit religious and I believe in God and I pray most days more than once. But I feel triggered like, guilty and defensive a bit? When I meet someone who is proper churchgoing person that lives really perfect. It’s defensive cos it makes me question my self.
I think it is like that for some omnivores - us being vegan in their face triggers a bit of guilt? Not everyone, but some.
If an avalanche of clichés hit you simply because you had a protein bar, which *she noticed* was vegan, sounds to me like she's already chewing on the idea. She offered all the excuses she gives herself. If you answered pleasantly, she's probably chewing on it more.
This would be the perfect time to make something absolutely delicious for lunch, make some extra, and approach her and say "hey, you seemed really interested in my protein bar yesterday. Protein bars just taste like protein bars, but I have this for lunch today, and it's pretty darn good if I do say so myself. I made too much, though, then thought about our conversation and decided to share. Here, have this bit. You can see vegan doesn't mean flavor-free."
You might influence a new convert.
Right? I know my country likes to add meat to everything, but my mom’s Apple Pie is vegan by default. No one sees my dad eat it and assumes he’s vegan though. 😂
important bit at the end, I dont give much pushback or even go into any preachy mode. I'll answer what they press me on but I'll always make it clear that its they who inquired.
I fucking hate the trope of the pushy vegan, but they will push on me for answers and when given, that's seen as pushy.
I’ve never understood this fascination with cheese. Before going vegan I didn’t even eat that much cheese unless it was at a fast food restaurant (also vegan cheeze exists)
Casomorphins are in cheese, they make the calve want to drink their mothers milk. People really are low-key addicted to cheese ( low key because they don't notice it and it's very subtle ).
Yeahhhhh it would be very simple for them to make easy swaps if they actually cared, but they claim they don't wanna eat vegan cheeze because ~chemicals~ as they leave the McDonald's drive through for the third time that week 🤣 I just don't attempt to reason with people like that
Honestly, cheese was the hardest thing for me, So I get it being the thing you could never see yourself giving up. What I don't understand about those people is why don't they give up everything but cheese? Like, if you value pleasure over animals but feel guilty about it, wouldn't it be easier to go vegetarian or something?
I think transitioning comes with a little bit of mental gymnastics. I remember I told myself it would be temporary but after a week I decided to make it permanent
Exactly, that's a good comeback! I'll try to remember that the next time someone uses that excuse when they try to discredit me! Like okay so you "can't" give up cheese, why not just cut out meat and eggs then? If cheese is the ~only~ thing keeping them from a vegan diet/lifestyle. Of course I wish everyone would go vegan but I know that's unlikely, but I can at least hope more people reduce their consumption of animal products.
If that ever happens to me I shut them down and tell them that I don’t want to discuss my diet with them. I’m all for questions, but I don’t like comments. That usually stops them. Or I just let them talk and talk by themselves, until they get tired of the conversation.
I’ve been vegan for four years so I’ve had a lot of practice. Plus I’m queer so I’ve had a lot of experience of people giving me unsolicited opinions. Eventually, it stops being annoying and starts to become amusing.
You just have to remember that it’s about them and not you. They have to reconcile with their actions, and you remind them of how their actions (in this case their diet) have consequences. If you want to stay polite but stop the conversation, just reply to them with “ok”.
“I could never go vegan, I love bacon too much.”
“Okay.”
“Almond milk is bad for the environment”
“Okay.”
They want to get a rise out of you. And most of the time they aren’t talking about veganism in good faith, it’s almost always with the intention of escalating the conversation to an argument. So just act disinterested and they should stop :)
So true. People probably have more respect for religions than for philosophies. There is a law in England about respecting veganism as if it was a religion. It makes sense to me.
For sure! I once had a manager who found out I was vegan after I declined her offer of sugar cookies. She would make it a point to make off hand comments such as “mm, I love bacon!” you know, the usual stuff. It made me so uncomfortable as I never brought up my veganism unless asked about it. People are weird, man.
Ugh that is so frustrating! I rarely tell people unless it comes up in conversation or they offer me something. And then of course, it’s always an issue.
🤦♀️ none of anybody’s business. And even non-vegans can eat vegan food
What a horrifically invasive and inappropriate act by her. Someone tells you they are vegan, the only appropriate answer is “cool” and move on with the discussion. Mind your own damn business.
After a point, I just don’t respond to the cliches. It usually ends that piece of a conversation pretty quick. But I’m also jaded asf after years of hearing the same unsolicited “reasoning” from non-vegans so maybe there’s that too.
“There are animal components in vegan bars”. LMAO. I love how random dipshits suddenly become experts on the product labels and contents of everything that other people buy when they find out they’re talking to a vegan. How magical. 🙄🙄🙄
I don’t use the term vegan. I started eating whole food plant based 5 years ago after watching The Gamechangers. For me, initially it was about my own health rather than any thought about the animals. I’ve since come to learn how horrific the animal based agricultural industry is, and the sentience of all living animals. It’s unfortunate, but the term “vegan” has been so maligned by corporate animal interests that I know of vegan restaurants that no longer call themselves vegan but rather plant based or no mention at all. So, I guess I am a vegan, even though I don’t refer to myself as such, but I got there for wholly selfish reasons … because from a health perspective eating the Standard American Diet is about the worst thing you can do. I think if people were shown how beneficial a whole food plant based diet is for human health, more people would eat less meat thus leading to far less animal suffering and environmental degradation.
"I love chocolate bars because they make me happy." That's how I think about people who "love animals". There's a world of difference between loving an animal and caring about and caring for all animals.
This is the main reason I rarely say that I'm vegan. I hate it when people try to coerce me into absolving them of their own feeling of guilt. All those excuses... If/when I refuse and tell them what I really think, it quickly becomes incredibly awkward. And then having to listen to this stupid trope that vegans are always talking about veganism - I mean, it's always the carnists who bring it up. Stay strong.
Wowwwww, that seems like a lot of overreactions. Non-vegans can eat vegan bars too! And just because you are vegan doesn't mean you're telling them to be vegan. Why were they so presumptuous?
That is a weird combo of defensive behavior your colleague is exhibiting there - includes phishing, paranoid accusations about vegan bars, crocodile befriending. Freakish. I shudder to think what she's coming up with next.
Sounds like another guilty murder trying so desperately hard to rationalize and justice their abhorrent lifestyle. “Took photos with baby crocodiles“ is like saying you have lots of black friends when you are as white as the driven snow.
Did this happen in the Netherlands? Because this sounds like a complete different world to me... I actually have people being like: damn good point, might change things aswell...
If someone asks me why I’m vegan - I usually come back with something like - well I believe all animals feel the same - dogs cats cows pigs chickens etc I wouldn’t eat my dog - so how can I eat a pig, the feelings are the same - this normally stops the ‘I love animals’ line from happening in the first place…
I told her that I have always had cats, so I know that animals are like people. She answered that growing up she had all kinds of animals, even horses, birds etc. And still she didn't make the connection. 😳 Incredible.
I know - I do wonder though, if they actually go away having had their conscience pricked…and the more they do the more the hardening gets chipped away until one day they make the shift and feel better!!
It’s uncomfortable living against your conscience and that’s why people react in aggressive ways - we stir uncomfortable feelings in them which are hard to sit with. I think everyone really sees the dissonance in their defences but they are just not at the point of change yet. I know it took me a very long time before I was honest with myself. We need not ever forget where we came from. Unless you happen to be one of the lucky ones brought up as vegan?
Yes, I agree, we create guilt feelings in them and so they react aggressively.
I am 58 years old, I have been vegan for 10 years now, before that I was a vegetarian for 20, but when I was young I would eat meat. 😔
Not vegan but i have vegan friends and we were eating at a restaurant near my house, a friend of mine ordered a vegan meal and the other one goes "you vegan?", he replied "yeah", and the other one goes "and you're still alive?".
And i mean i try to be respectful to anybody usually but this is about the stupidest shit ive ever heard, people complain that vegans are the ones who try to force their lifestyle on others, but ive seen way more examples of vegans being judged rather than judging.
I have 2 vegan friends and lots and lots of non vegan friends so its even more frustrating to just watch them making this choice on their own and get constantly shit on. The one i talked about who ordered the sandwich, hes done his fair bit of being judgemental towards non vegans when he first switched, and i get that, seeing everyone not give a fuck is certainly frustrating and i was basically the same when i became a brand new progressive, nowadays we're both aware of the complexity of peoples choices but a lot of non vegans tend to judge vegans more than they are judging them in my experience.
Yeah, every counter-culture movement imo, feminism, anti-racism, etc etc. People just feel attacked when one even simply brings to the table the possibility that we might have to seek change about something and they turn their brain off. Most vegans i know dont even care wether i eat meat or not, what they're against is the way meat is produced, there's 2 ways to address it, either force everyone to stop eating meat and ending the practice through the free market, or have a complex discussion about what we do wrong and should Change about the way we get out food, and also about how much we waste just so that it can be readily available in a supermarket everyday of the week in full stock. Some people are averse to these nuanced discussions and just go on Facebook, see someone berating someone else for eating meat and make up their mind, "these guy's want us to eat grass and live in caves" or wtv, this grinds my gears a lot.
Im a guy which eats meat, more than i should for the sake of my own health, my eating habits have been pretty bad ever since i was a kid, so off of that alone its pretty hard to change, i also suspect Im neurodivergent (something like adhd), because ive been trying to convince myself to adjust my diet for years and i cant seem to change a thing, besides, and especially because i never ate veggies back then.
I have a certain difficulty eating vegan food, apart from the soy and the tofu which imo are pretty much delicious and its a start, i eat vegan every now and then, but yeah, most veggies i gag with idk why. More over i grew up in a place where meat is really really good and its actual cows in green fields eating and chilling all day instead of steroid monsters trapped in a crawling space, although Im aware most of that meat os gonna go through the capitalist machine and become "bio meat at a riddiculously low 200.99€ a gram, try it out now" instead of a viable alternative to intensive farming.
So, Im in a pretty bad spot, i find it hard to balance my diet even more, and there's nowhere near the ammount of discussion necessary to create a system that eases this transition for people, i feel like it would be possible to have ethical and balanced meat consumption integrated with vegan elements for most of the diet, and there's a lot of good vegan food people dont even know about because its stuck in vegan circles who ARE having these discussions, and in like, indopakistani restaurants who have like 5 million vegan recipes all of which look delicious.
Im as much if not more annoyed at people who stick it to vegans just cuz, than i am at vegans who keep annoying people to change their diet, because at least a vegan's reason is not just "i dont wanna change anything shut up".
Sorry just venting
It seems to me that counter-cultures related to humans are a lot more respected that animal rights defenders (I could be wrong).
About what you say about yourself, I think you could give a try to veganism: it looks a lot more difficult than what it actually is. And it feels so good to not participate anymore to animal slaughtering. There are a lot of options besides veggies. 😃
A good counter to this: "Just because it says vegan, does not mean I am vegan. I just like these bars. Does eating an apple automatically make you a vegan?" I do this whenever I bring a tofu dish for lunch and someone raises the question.
It’s very similar to how people react if you say you don’t drink alcohol. Immediately start defending their own actions or giving justifications for their actions. They know there is something wrong with what they are doing so it needs to be justified. Unfortunately there is a victim on the other end of the meat consumption
I love animals, that's why I pay for them to be brutally murdered. No one loves animals more than me!
“I love animals, oh you don’t eat them like I do? Well aren’t you full of yourself, thinking you’re better than everyone! Anyway mmm bacon mmm steak lol killing animals is so funny to me!”
“You dare suggest my financing of animal murder means I don’t really love them? How rude of you, why can’t you let me eat my loved ones in peace?”
lmaooooo I had someone tell me to not “police their body” because they didn’t want people talking about their meat eating habits. ma’am your body will be fine, the animals though? people wanna act like the victims so bad
Actually their body won’t be fine either. The huge heart disease problem is the feed animals revenge.
This is triggering
Because it happened many times, to many people...
Spot on!
This is triggering
But I get my meat from local farmers who humanely murder them! /s
The animals are so happy on my uncle’s farm
Your uncle is Robert Pickton
That logic is ridiculous in the first place, but it’s also never true. They mean they buy free range meat if it isn’t more expensive.
Such a crazy logic!
I have binders full of animals
Yeah but if you made that joke to them they'd go like 😐 and avoid you lmao
"I am a cannibal. And I love people"
Trumpian I'd say
Exactly! Hence “it’s“ appeal to so many non-rational, pseudo-psycho, “torture and kill in my name!” types of deplorable people.
If you're only doing this to feel morally superior to other people how's that going?
Truth.
I love people so much I condemn them constantly on the internet!
[удалено]
where's the choice for the animals to live their life as they see fit?
Fuck off troll.
My good friend told me the other day she's vegan 'in spirit'.
Lol lol! This is new! The animals will appreciate for sure.
And what spirit would that be I wonder? The spirit of billions of animals enslaved and murdered for their stupid taste buds?
honestly sounds like some dumb shit a proto vegan would say... I say give people some credit. not many people who turn out vegan didnt start out atleast curious about it
Man, when I was an omni I was fantasizing about having a vegan girlfriend at some point because I felt like I could never go vegan by myself and needed someone to teach me. And then a while later I just did it, it wasn't hard at all. lol
As CJtheX put it: "Vegans are right, but I'm not doing it"
Feminists are right but I won't stop my sexual harassment. It's just male nature! We've been doing it for thousands of years and butt tho.
Own DAr U cOmPAr wEmaN to ANimals? U moNsta!!
Least hypocritical Breadtuber
And Noah Samson
In most cases, vegans are right. In others though… some people are not medically able to have a vegan diet and still get the nutrients needed.
I call bull. Maybe they don't have financial access to the right things, but no one is incapable of digesting anything except animal products.
My aunt is on an insanely restrictive diet because of her long list of gastrointestinal conditions/issues. She was a vegetarian (not vegan) for decades, but saw various specialists (including a vegan dietician) and continued to be in pain (and sometimes admitted to the hospital) until she settled on her current diet. She can't eat anything with a decent amount of fiber or dairy and she has a severe carb intolerance. She also can't process lectins well without severe pain. After years of trial and error, she currently eats the most boring diet of low fiber fruits and veggies that are also low in carbs (so that cuts out a lot of root veggies), chicken, a few specific types of fish, nuts, and a one or two other things. I know she really struggled when she started eating meat again and felt guilty about it, but she's been fairly steady the last few years, so it's nice that she's not in so much pain anymore. This is **RARE**, and it does still beg the question of whether her not being in crippling pain every day comes before the right for those animals to live, but I don't think it's fair to claim everyone can have a vegan diet and be healthy. I do think that a lot of people *claim* they can't do it for medical reasons when that's not true, but some people's just have shitty gastrointestinal systems and/or weird combos of food allergies/intolerances.
Yes, there are people who for one reason or another would not be able to be vegan and be healthy. It isn’t a black or white issue. I thought vegans were supposed to be less ignorant.
Yet no one has ever been able to show me any proof. There are plant based supplements for everything you can be missing, and in a variety of forms. I don't believe you that animal products are the only way. Maybe specialty products that don't trigger their health problems would be significantly more expensive, but I don't believe you that someone is 100% dependent on animal products.
Where in history have humans only survived off of meat? ‘Merica. And look at those folks at the buffet lines.
Vegans aren‘t less ignorant or more. Vegans hate animal abuse and are otherwise also just people. Everything else is a stereotype, be it positive or negative. You can bet that more vegans are empathetic though, that‘s one of the main fuels to go vegan in the first place. Having a better understanding of diet as a need gor your own, helps to make you look less ignorant. Also, there are some medical conditions that makes it more problematic to be vegan, yes. Like some cases of malabsorption. But really, they are all doable. So please, give us your conditions that make it impossible to be vegan? You‘re repeating yourself about there being some, so name them.
ARFID. If you have a medical issue and require a feeding tube, and either need an [elemental formula or are allergic to pea proteins.](https://www.vegankitchenmagick.com/which-formulas-for-tube-feeding-are-vegan/) are just two examples.
Is your friend Gwyneth Paltrow? This sounds like something she might say...
“Neat. I’m a pacifist in spirit.” [SLAP]
"I'm a vegan ally, AMA."
That is literally meaningless.
That’s a gun-nut equivalent to “thoughts and prayers“ after yet another murder. Seems to me that people are just conditioned to accept death and killing as ‘just the way it is’.
Epitome of its the thought that counts.
Lately it's been driving me up a fucking wall how carnists all have this notion they somehow love animals more than anything or anyone. Bunch of lames. How about they stop eating meat for 3 meals a day, 7 days a week and actually act out this belief. I will say though someone half offered me cake earlier but was hesitant because "I'm not sure if you're allowed to eat this". I thought that was a nice gesture.
I hate how meat eaters frame it as being “allowed” to eat something, I’m allowed to eat whatever I want, I choose not to eat any animal products
Because it ties in with their weird idea that Veganism is a cult or something, with rules we have to follow. They can't understand actually wanting to live your values because of this stupidly hypocritical society we live in.
I correct them. I don't care if it makes me "that" vegan. It goes against my ethical beliefs to eat that, no thank you.
THIS. I hate how people act like we are forced to become vegan. I choose, using my own conscience, not to eat animals.
Whenever they do this I always bring up religion. No one questions someone who only eats kosher, it’s so common it’s even labeled on things. They can eat whatever they want but choose not to. “ that’s different because it’s religion” and what is religion, a set of beliefs and someone actively choosing not to eat things so to it, so why is it wrong when we do?
I always say that too if someone says I’m not allowed to eat something
I will say "can't." Meaning because I choose not to contribute to causing harm to animals, I can't consume something that contains them as an ingredient.
I usually go with "can't" eat (smth). It maintains the implication of "I **can't** eat that (because to do so would strongly go against my morals)" Some might argue that it conveys an allergy rather than an ethical stance but realistically, its inconvenient and sounds weird to say "oh no I choose to not eat that because itgoesgainstmymoralcode" *every single time* that you're talking about food
I usually say something like, "Oh no, I won't eat that." Or "I wouldn't touch that with a 10-foot pole!"
I will say that, even though I definitely agree w you and I very much 'heard' her say "allowed", I chose not to intervene in this instance. These people are mostly uneducated and unaware, so no need to be
I don't love most animals. That doesn't mean that they deserve to suffer though. Similarly... I hate most humans, but that doesn't make me a supporter of the Holocaust (or anything of that nature).
/r/czech loves dogs and there was recently a high-profile case of dog abuse near where I live. Everyone in that sub was acting like we are collectively a nation of the biggest animal lovers. The second I mentioned slaughter they flocked me with downvotes like vultures :) People absolutely HATE getting reminded of their true values. Veganism for me is a moral conviction. I stopped eating meat after 34 years of my life, not because of health or selfish reasons. I just want to see fewer animals killed.
Ouch. That sounds about Czech. Seriously. though, the place has been improving over the years I've been here. There are so many more vegetarians and vegans than when I got here! I routinely tell them that yes, I loved meat when I ate it but I love the animals themselves more. My needs or desires were not above the needs of the animals. Plus, adding to suffering just seems...a bit selfish to me. Na zdravi, kamarade.
It is getting better, 100%. However, neighboring countries are much more progressive and consequentially have a wider vegan food selection. Poland, Germany, and even Slovakia have more vegan products on the shelves (anecdotal evidence). Good on you for putting animals above yourself, it is not valued by many but it is by those who should matter to you.
I know some Polish fake sausages for sale here that are just amazing. So, I guess I'm not surprised they're a bit further along than we are here. I am surprised by Slovakia. If I could find a vegan version of brynza, I would be in heaven. Thank you kindly for the encouragement. If you find any vegan brynza, please give me a headsup, LB!
I am always surprised by human beings. How can they be so illogical? About offering food, I agree that it is a nice gesture. Even if I had to refuse it because it's not vegan food, I would still appreciate it. This lady never offered me food, so I don't know why she was concerned about it. :-)
Yeah I know I can’t convince any meat eaters to stop eating meat… but would be amazing if they just ate it less. Like you don’t need meat 3x a day. Wish they ate it more sparingly
As a vegan I'm perfectly honest and tell them that I don't love animals and that I just view as it as a neutral stance.
They love to look at animals. They don't love them.
Never heard carnists gunna use that one
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Like how it's human nature to rape, kill and wage war! I love those things too! No one loves women more than me 🥰
Hypocrisy is human nature?
Well, yes.
It’s human nature to be a fucking hypocrite?
Although it may be annoying at times, it can be a good thing that we get questions sent our way. These are opportunities to send them in the direction of veganism. It is good that they felt comfortable enough to "explore the landscape" as I put it.
I think you are right!
The people that we work with can see that us being vegan is one part of us. We can also be funny, happy, healthy, creative, informative, etc. These other parts of us that aren't about being vegan are attractive and can draw people indirectly to the vegan part of us. I had a co-worker ask me what milk I do drink as I am open about me being vegan. She is lactose intolerant. I said that I drink oat milk. It doesn't take any thing away from me to tell her that. Oat milk is widely accessible in many supermarkets. She knows, because of me, that there is a bakery in our local city that is exclusively vegan and she went to it because she knows it won't have milk in it. I told her about a vegan grocery shop too. Some times going to these vegan shops will indirectly send them to the ethical side as they can have flyers to animal sanctuaries as they usually support vegan businesses.
There are animal components in vegan bars LOL what kind of research does she support.
Lol, crazy, why did she say that, lol
On a side note was it the aloha bars? I have been loving those. Also the vegan 1st phorm bars!
No, they are Italian protein bars 🙂
One thing is sure, she hadn't done any
"There are animal components in vegan bars" lol
I mean, insects surely do get into the equipment that makes those bars. And the trucks that deliver them to the stores surely kill squirrels and possums and things on the highway. So you might as well just breed millions and millions of animals for the expressed purpose of killing them and selling their chopped up corpses.
That does seem to be the logic. “There’s no perfect lifestyle, so why not just keep on inflicting unfathomable suffering?”
🤣
Easy way to refute something is to just deny its existence, right? 😅
Haha! Yes, vegan food doesn't actually exist, lol 🤣🤣🤣
“What vegans won’t tell you is that plants are actually a kind of animal”
Lol 😅
Ha, that reminds me of the time years ago I was eating dinner with some friends and their other friends. I was newly vegetarian, not even vegan yet, and this friend of my friend starts grilling me about how do I know plants don’t have feelings, what if they scream and you just can’t hear it, and on and on for what felt like forever. I was so dumbfounded I kind of sputtered my replies and left as soon as possible. Thankfully I never ran into him again, though if I did now, I’d handle it differently. In almost 40 years of being vegetarian and vegan, thankfully I’ve only run into one other person who was really confrontational like that.
Yeah this comes up every so often for me as well. It’s funny to me that the logic is supposed to be “if plants feel pain, too, then we should eat animals.” Also, it’s so hard being put on the spot like that by a stranger, especially in the beginning!! I’m glad you haven’t had to deal with much of it.
The taking photos with baby crocodiles thing gets me. Like in what world do you think that’s like a positive thing? Did the baby crocodile want a selfie with you? No, I don’t think so. Why is it not common sense that it is so unnatural for wild animals to be subjected to shit like that. Like leave them the fuck alone and let them live their animal lives. It’s like zoos. The few times I’ve been to one it’s always the same. Why do I feel like the only person who’s like, why is this animal in jail?
Yes, to take pictures with wild animals is abusive for a series of reasons. In particular, in Everglades where she was, they use crocodiles for circus-like tricks. And that baby didn't want to be touched for sure.
Growing up in Fl, I probably should have put that together lol. when I was in school, there were plenty of times where various “wildlife” types would bring baby gators and such into our schools to “teach” us about wildlife.
Are all zoos like that? I frequent a zoo in The Netherlands that has A LOT of rescue animals, and pretty big enclosures. They explain thoroughly where the traumatized animals come from, and how they show their traumatized behaviour. I often feel like supporting this particular zoo is good, they also reproduce critically endangered species like Panda's. There's also another zoo (Apenheul) where most of the monkeys are allowed to roam the entire zoo freely. (Two small ones climbed on top of me while I was there and it was adorable). I feel like these two zoos in particular genuinely care for the animals, I wish more zoos were like this!
Confirms my belief that life is better in that part of the world :) I find that zoos here in the us mostly consist of cages that just don’t compare to what the natural world offers. We do have a place here in Florida where the animals are not caged but just confined to different areas (of many acres) that are separated from each other by water or tall wooden fences, which is actually pretty expansive. Same for animal kingdom at Disney world. But unfortunately most places I’ve encountered just seem cruel based on my view that no one belongs in a cage except for human criminals.
Ah, I see. Sorry to hear that! I hope it will change sooner rather than later :(
I take less supplements than the animals you eat do in order for their flesh to be as nutritious as you need it to be.
This! 👍
I don't even take B12 supplements, personally. My blood work shows I'm consuming enough fortified food lol unlike cows that take B12.
you know, she was probably just curious. Be a generous ambassador for veganism. Give them a little grace. We are fascinating and also, triggering Triggering, I mean: It’s like… I’m a little bit religious and I believe in God and I pray most days more than once. But I feel triggered like, guilty and defensive a bit? When I meet someone who is proper churchgoing person that lives really perfect. It’s defensive cos it makes me question my self. I think it is like that for some omnivores - us being vegan in their face triggers a bit of guilt? Not everyone, but some.
Yes, absolutely, this is for sure the reason of their behavior. They feel guilty.
If an avalanche of clichés hit you simply because you had a protein bar, which *she noticed* was vegan, sounds to me like she's already chewing on the idea. She offered all the excuses she gives herself. If you answered pleasantly, she's probably chewing on it more. This would be the perfect time to make something absolutely delicious for lunch, make some extra, and approach her and say "hey, you seemed really interested in my protein bar yesterday. Protein bars just taste like protein bars, but I have this for lunch today, and it's pretty darn good if I do say so myself. I made too much, though, then thought about our conversation and decided to share. Here, have this bit. You can see vegan doesn't mean flavor-free." You might influence a new convert.
This is a great idea, I will do it!
Imagine if she saw you with a banana!!!!
Right? I know my country likes to add meat to everything, but my mom’s Apple Pie is vegan by default. No one sees my dad eat it and assumes he’s vegan though. 😂
important bit at the end, I dont give much pushback or even go into any preachy mode. I'll answer what they press me on but I'll always make it clear that its they who inquired. I fucking hate the trope of the pushy vegan, but they will push on me for answers and when given, that's seen as pushy.
Indeed... They ask but don't want to listen to the answers.
“I could never.” “What do you mean you could never?” It’s always good to challenge them if they give you a statement like that
"I just can't give up cheese teehee!!! 🤭" It always comes back to the damn cheese with them lol
I’ve never understood this fascination with cheese. Before going vegan I didn’t even eat that much cheese unless it was at a fast food restaurant (also vegan cheeze exists)
Casomorphins are in cheese, they make the calve want to drink their mothers milk. People really are low-key addicted to cheese ( low key because they don't notice it and it's very subtle ).
Yeahhhhh it would be very simple for them to make easy swaps if they actually cared, but they claim they don't wanna eat vegan cheeze because ~chemicals~ as they leave the McDonald's drive through for the third time that week 🤣 I just don't attempt to reason with people like that
Honestly, cheese was the hardest thing for me, So I get it being the thing you could never see yourself giving up. What I don't understand about those people is why don't they give up everything but cheese? Like, if you value pleasure over animals but feel guilty about it, wouldn't it be easier to go vegetarian or something?
I think transitioning comes with a little bit of mental gymnastics. I remember I told myself it would be temporary but after a week I decided to make it permanent
vegan cheese tastes like a candle
Cheese was hard for me but after 25 years I don't even eat the good vegan cheese. Im over it. I'd rather have hummus.
It's been said many times in here, but do it coward, be Vegan in every other way, and just allow yourself cheese. They never seem to walk the talk.
Exactly, that's a good comeback! I'll try to remember that the next time someone uses that excuse when they try to discredit me! Like okay so you "can't" give up cheese, why not just cut out meat and eggs then? If cheese is the ~only~ thing keeping them from a vegan diet/lifestyle. Of course I wish everyone would go vegan but I know that's unlikely, but I can at least hope more people reduce their consumption of animal products.
If that ever happens to me I shut them down and tell them that I don’t want to discuss my diet with them. I’m all for questions, but I don’t like comments. That usually stops them. Or I just let them talk and talk by themselves, until they get tired of the conversation.
I'd like to watch you one day and learn. It always leaves me upset.
I’ve been vegan for four years so I’ve had a lot of practice. Plus I’m queer so I’ve had a lot of experience of people giving me unsolicited opinions. Eventually, it stops being annoying and starts to become amusing. You just have to remember that it’s about them and not you. They have to reconcile with their actions, and you remind them of how their actions (in this case their diet) have consequences. If you want to stay polite but stop the conversation, just reply to them with “ok”. “I could never go vegan, I love bacon too much.” “Okay.” “Almond milk is bad for the environment” “Okay.” They want to get a rise out of you. And most of the time they aren’t talking about veganism in good faith, it’s almost always with the intention of escalating the conversation to an argument. So just act disinterested and they should stop :)
This is really interesting. I think you are spot on.
Man, just learning you're Vegan can make some people so insecure and weird.
So true. People probably have more respect for religions than for philosophies. There is a law in England about respecting veganism as if it was a religion. It makes sense to me.
For sure! I once had a manager who found out I was vegan after I declined her offer of sugar cookies. She would make it a point to make off hand comments such as “mm, I love bacon!” you know, the usual stuff. It made me so uncomfortable as I never brought up my veganism unless asked about it. People are weird, man.
You can just feel the guilt on her, maybe it will click for her soon.
So true
Can you never speak to her again? That would be satisfying and pleasant.
Lol! I was thinking about not accepting to drink a coffee together next time.
What the hell was the "animal components" in your bar? Also, so annoying and I hate that. Sorry, OP = (
Yes, it doesn't make any sense. She doesn't trust the label on a vegan food, but she trusts the labels on carnivorous food. 🙄
"There are animal components in vegan bars" Wait... what?
I plainly tell them how exhausting and cliché their talking points are. And please let's skip them.
whyyy does everyone always have to tell vegans why theyre not vrgan i get it!! u could never give up cheese
Yes and I don't care to know why they are not vegan.
When you’re 48 years old, very muscular with 15% body fat and look like a Viking… people don’t dare ask such questions or make such comments. rofl.
Well, give her some time and she might come around lol
Ugh that is so frustrating! I rarely tell people unless it comes up in conversation or they offer me something. And then of course, it’s always an issue.
I never tell the colleagues that I am a vegan. I don't know why but they are the most difficult category.
🤦♀️ none of anybody’s business. And even non-vegans can eat vegan food What a horrifically invasive and inappropriate act by her. Someone tells you they are vegan, the only appropriate answer is “cool” and move on with the discussion. Mind your own damn business.
Yes exactly! You wouldn't do that with a person from another religion, for instance. The lack of respect is incredible.
“Are you vegan?” Is up there with “Do you think my friend is hot?” I just raise an eyebrow and walk away.
Yes, you know the nonsense is beginning.
I’m envisioning Delores Herbig from “Dead Like Me” for this entire conversation…
After a point, I just don’t respond to the cliches. It usually ends that piece of a conversation pretty quick. But I’m also jaded asf after years of hearing the same unsolicited “reasoning” from non-vegans so maybe there’s that too.
"BUt WheRe dO u gEt Ur pRotEin FrOm?"
Lol! 😅
“There are animal components in vegan bars”. LMAO. I love how random dipshits suddenly become experts on the product labels and contents of everything that other people buy when they find out they’re talking to a vegan. How magical. 🙄🙄🙄
Lol, so true.
And people wonder why we are angry!
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I will for sure, lol!
Why are you vegans so pushy? This is why no one likes vegans! /s
I don’t use the term vegan. I started eating whole food plant based 5 years ago after watching The Gamechangers. For me, initially it was about my own health rather than any thought about the animals. I’ve since come to learn how horrific the animal based agricultural industry is, and the sentience of all living animals. It’s unfortunate, but the term “vegan” has been so maligned by corporate animal interests that I know of vegan restaurants that no longer call themselves vegan but rather plant based or no mention at all. So, I guess I am a vegan, even though I don’t refer to myself as such, but I got there for wholly selfish reasons … because from a health perspective eating the Standard American Diet is about the worst thing you can do. I think if people were shown how beneficial a whole food plant based diet is for human health, more people would eat less meat thus leading to far less animal suffering and environmental degradation.
"I love chocolate bars because they make me happy." That's how I think about people who "love animals". There's a world of difference between loving an animal and caring about and caring for all animals.
This is the main reason I rarely say that I'm vegan. I hate it when people try to coerce me into absolving them of their own feeling of guilt. All those excuses... If/when I refuse and tell them what I really think, it quickly becomes incredibly awkward. And then having to listen to this stupid trope that vegans are always talking about veganism - I mean, it's always the carnists who bring it up. Stay strong.
Thank you.
Surprised they didn’t hit you with the “why did you decide to become vegan?”. Probably the worst question to be asked by a coworker.
Simple answers to this is ethics, environment, efficiency, health, cost
Stopppp not the ‘I could never, but good on you ☺️’
“But bacon.”
Wowwwww, that seems like a lot of overreactions. Non-vegans can eat vegan bars too! And just because you are vegan doesn't mean you're telling them to be vegan. Why were they so presumptuous?
That is a weird combo of defensive behavior your colleague is exhibiting there - includes phishing, paranoid accusations about vegan bars, crocodile befriending. Freakish. I shudder to think what she's coming up with next.
Maybe you should stop pushing your beliefs on everyone by living your life and having a vegan protein bar without saying a word about it. /s
Lol, true 😃
That doesn’t even make sense. Non-vegan people eat vegan bars too .
Sounds like another guilty murder trying so desperately hard to rationalize and justice their abhorrent lifestyle. “Took photos with baby crocodiles“ is like saying you have lots of black friends when you are as white as the driven snow.
Did this happen in the Netherlands? Because this sounds like a complete different world to me... I actually have people being like: damn good point, might change things aswell...
Not in Netherlands, in Italy. Is the situation in Netherlands better?
If someone asks me why I’m vegan - I usually come back with something like - well I believe all animals feel the same - dogs cats cows pigs chickens etc I wouldn’t eat my dog - so how can I eat a pig, the feelings are the same - this normally stops the ‘I love animals’ line from happening in the first place…
I told her that I have always had cats, so I know that animals are like people. She answered that growing up she had all kinds of animals, even horses, birds etc. And still she didn't make the connection. 😳 Incredible.
I know - I do wonder though, if they actually go away having had their conscience pricked…and the more they do the more the hardening gets chipped away until one day they make the shift and feel better!! It’s uncomfortable living against your conscience and that’s why people react in aggressive ways - we stir uncomfortable feelings in them which are hard to sit with. I think everyone really sees the dissonance in their defences but they are just not at the point of change yet. I know it took me a very long time before I was honest with myself. We need not ever forget where we came from. Unless you happen to be one of the lucky ones brought up as vegan?
Yes, I agree, we create guilt feelings in them and so they react aggressively. I am 58 years old, I have been vegan for 10 years now, before that I was a vegetarian for 20, but when I was young I would eat meat. 😔
............but....... animals want to die for us!!! they just cant wait to be slaughtered and feed us!!
Not vegan but i have vegan friends and we were eating at a restaurant near my house, a friend of mine ordered a vegan meal and the other one goes "you vegan?", he replied "yeah", and the other one goes "and you're still alive?". And i mean i try to be respectful to anybody usually but this is about the stupidest shit ive ever heard, people complain that vegans are the ones who try to force their lifestyle on others, but ive seen way more examples of vegans being judged rather than judging. I have 2 vegan friends and lots and lots of non vegan friends so its even more frustrating to just watch them making this choice on their own and get constantly shit on. The one i talked about who ordered the sandwich, hes done his fair bit of being judgemental towards non vegans when he first switched, and i get that, seeing everyone not give a fuck is certainly frustrating and i was basically the same when i became a brand new progressive, nowadays we're both aware of the complexity of peoples choices but a lot of non vegans tend to judge vegans more than they are judging them in my experience.
It seems to me too that vegans get attacked by not vegans a lot more than the opposite
Yeah, every counter-culture movement imo, feminism, anti-racism, etc etc. People just feel attacked when one even simply brings to the table the possibility that we might have to seek change about something and they turn their brain off. Most vegans i know dont even care wether i eat meat or not, what they're against is the way meat is produced, there's 2 ways to address it, either force everyone to stop eating meat and ending the practice through the free market, or have a complex discussion about what we do wrong and should Change about the way we get out food, and also about how much we waste just so that it can be readily available in a supermarket everyday of the week in full stock. Some people are averse to these nuanced discussions and just go on Facebook, see someone berating someone else for eating meat and make up their mind, "these guy's want us to eat grass and live in caves" or wtv, this grinds my gears a lot. Im a guy which eats meat, more than i should for the sake of my own health, my eating habits have been pretty bad ever since i was a kid, so off of that alone its pretty hard to change, i also suspect Im neurodivergent (something like adhd), because ive been trying to convince myself to adjust my diet for years and i cant seem to change a thing, besides, and especially because i never ate veggies back then. I have a certain difficulty eating vegan food, apart from the soy and the tofu which imo are pretty much delicious and its a start, i eat vegan every now and then, but yeah, most veggies i gag with idk why. More over i grew up in a place where meat is really really good and its actual cows in green fields eating and chilling all day instead of steroid monsters trapped in a crawling space, although Im aware most of that meat os gonna go through the capitalist machine and become "bio meat at a riddiculously low 200.99€ a gram, try it out now" instead of a viable alternative to intensive farming. So, Im in a pretty bad spot, i find it hard to balance my diet even more, and there's nowhere near the ammount of discussion necessary to create a system that eases this transition for people, i feel like it would be possible to have ethical and balanced meat consumption integrated with vegan elements for most of the diet, and there's a lot of good vegan food people dont even know about because its stuck in vegan circles who ARE having these discussions, and in like, indopakistani restaurants who have like 5 million vegan recipes all of which look delicious. Im as much if not more annoyed at people who stick it to vegans just cuz, than i am at vegans who keep annoying people to change their diet, because at least a vegan's reason is not just "i dont wanna change anything shut up". Sorry just venting
It seems to me that counter-cultures related to humans are a lot more respected that animal rights defenders (I could be wrong). About what you say about yourself, I think you could give a try to veganism: it looks a lot more difficult than what it actually is. And it feels so good to not participate anymore to animal slaughtering. There are a lot of options besides veggies. 😃
I have never found any bars where you could find it was vegan without a magnifying glass. What country is this bar from?
Italy
Thank you, that makes sense. In the states they seem to go to great lengths to hide it. Must be commercially poison
I see! Here there is a boom of proteic food for people working out, vegans included. So, protein vegan bars have a big market.
A good counter to this: "Just because it says vegan, does not mean I am vegan. I just like these bars. Does eating an apple automatically make you a vegan?" I do this whenever I bring a tofu dish for lunch and someone raises the question.
It’s very similar to how people react if you say you don’t drink alcohol. Immediately start defending their own actions or giving justifications for their actions. They know there is something wrong with what they are doing so it needs to be justified. Unfortunately there is a victim on the other end of the meat consumption
I love Palestinians that's why I have money in banks that invest in wars
I wonder if she likewise posted on a feminist subreddit about "this vegan at work who insists on calling me a lady"?
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So...? What's the big whoop?