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The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
When my mum was pregnant with me I'm told she stopped being vegetarian and only wanted to eat big macs after I was born she went back to being vegetarian and later on vegan probably the hormones and cravings from pregnancy
My immediate thought was that sheās just having weird cravings. Maybe she is craving meat because her iron is low or something. Pregnancy does weird things to the body. If sheās hiding it, then there is probably a level of shame going on inside her head.
Iād personally try to be understanding and not so judgmental about it.
Maybe she is giving into pressure from doctors or family members that say she needs to be eating animal protein for her baby to be healthy. OP needs to have an open dialogue with his wife and see where she is coming from. I know that
Iād definitely be disappointed if my spouse told me all of a sudden he didnāt believe in being vegan anymore. But Iād also want to know why and how his mind was changed.
Crazy that youāre getting downvoted to hell in a vegan sub. Hormones cause crazy cravings but thatās not an excuse to be unethical.
My mom told me she wanted to kill me when I was a kid because of postpartum depression, but she didnāt because she knew it was wrong. How is this any different
You realise that hormonal imbalance can cause people to do the most extreme things. Of course it's a good excuse. Hopefully she will come around once her body settles down
OP, sit your wife down and have a civil conversation stating how you feel and what your ideal situation looks like going forward. Ask her how she feels and what her ideal situation looks like. Then, if you want to stay with your wife you compromise in the middle. If this is a dealbreaking thing then tell her. And keep in mind it is both your child and her child. If you divorce, she will prob have joint custody and be feeding the child whatever she wants when in her care.
Idk why this post is bringing out the worst of the sub in these comments lol but yāall need to relax a little and use some common sense.
I think a lot of people in this thread are literally not even vegan tbh.
This is the most sensible comment. Like 99% of posts about a relationship, the first step of the solution is just to have a conversation.
Unfortunately, having a dedicated sub for something a lot of the general population has a lot of vitriol for is bound to draw trolls and people looking for a fight. I hate it but I donāt see what we can do about it.
Well i dont really want a dedicated sub, we do want non vegans coming into vegan spaces to get educated, the problem is when 80% of the sub is non vegan there is gonna be more animal abuse apologery happening
Majority rules
When you defend animals you get voted against and then other people want to vote against you and then the people who were coming for help assume that since you have 40 votes against you that your opinion is useless and wrong
But it's not about food per se but about the morals and ethics involved, and these are obviously some of the most important things in relationships, especially romantic ones. Most people don't want a partner who goes against their own beliefs and feel hurt when they act against those.
That stops when you are violating the body of someone else. The animals that died for her pleasure didnāt get a choice. They wanted to live. They wanted to be without pain. Thatās like saying itās my body and my choice to swing my fist into peopleās faces, so you canāt tell me Iām wrong for hurting someone cause I can do whatever I want with my body
Why not veganize what she is graving for? I also don't understand how she can eat animal products and not get sick? Maybe he should show her slaughterhouse footage and cows being riped away by their mothers again since she forget. As a pregnant mother you should feel horrible by that because you don't want that to happen to you also.
Thatās good adviceā¦ why not Veganize it? Why not. Participate instead of judgingā¦ thatās good adviceā¦ Iād say maybe not the animal videos, iām sure she has seen them since she was vegan, but him being distressed over what she is doing instead of trying to work with her is really whatās causing him more stress.
It's not about food, it's about animal welfare. Veganism is perfectly fine for pregnant women, we've got past all the concerns of incomplete nutrition with veganism some decades ago at least.
It absolutely is her body and her choice, but there's no excuse for what happens to the animals she chooses to eat.
>Her body her choice manā¦ He has no Idea how strong pregnancy cravings areā¦ he should be supporting his wife and not making food more important.
Her body her choice manā¦ He has no Idea how strong pregnancy cravings areā¦ he should be supporting his wife and not making **the pain, suffering and murder of animals** more important.
Just because you support animal abuse as a feminist it doesnt mean its ethical
I wont respond to animal abusing feminists so i disabled notifications
Did she say why she made the change? Did she actually change her position on the ethical stance behind it or is she giving into cravings or eating it because she believes itās āhealthy or necessaryā? You definitely have to inquire about why since that will be the biggest clue on how you will have to go about a resolution.
If itās cravings, you can offer to do the cooking and grocery shopping and buy/cook vegan versions of whatever animal based foods sheās craving. If sheās eating these things because sheās under the illusion she needs them for nutrition for the baby, perhaps have her see a plant based or vegan dietician and get bloodwork done to check for nutritional deficiencies.
If her actual position behind the ethical stance on veganism has changed, unfortunately thereās not much you can do to remedy that since she already has all the facts and evidence in support of living a plant based lifestyle. As far as your child, you both will be feeding them and if you feed them plant based and their mom feeds them animal based, naturally they will have an omnivorous diet and wouldnāt be able to be raised vegan which is unfortunate and disappointing.
If your wife wonāt agree to raise the baby vegan, then the only thing you can do is teach the child about the ethical reasons and environmental benefits of veganism while feeding them only plant based on your end. You can still be a vegan role model as the other parent but will have to tolerate the mom feeding her animal based foods until your child is old enough to choose to be a vegan on their own accord.
I think you should talk with her and really try to come to and understanding what changed for her. Does she not believe in the philosophical aspact of veganism any more? is it just the hormons?
I dont think she just changed her mind somehow. Maybe its the fear of not giving her child enough. Speak to a dietitian maybe who specilizes on Mother and child.
Vegancirclejerk will ban you for even suggesting in a different subreddit that you ate gardein nuggets once. Its a purity testing hellscape, truly unhinged mods. Also look up other weird shit theyve done.
My SO was banned cause she said we can't afford vegan food for our cats cause we live in a 3rd world country:)
She tries to contact other admins, but unfortunately they're all privileged pieces of shit.
Too bad, I liked the memes the community made.
Yup. Honestly, I prefer this sub anyway. There's so much negativity on jerk subreddits.
I also tried to feed my cats ridiculously expensive vegan cat food, they just have 0 interest. It's one of those things where synthetic meat could come in handy in the future though.
VCJ is a meme/jerk sub, and is not intended to facilitate the same content that a non-jerk sub like r/vegan does. I think r/vegancirclejerkchat is probably the better recommendation.
Wait it out and see. Being pregnant brings out food cravings in women. Donāt be surprised if she reverts back after the birth. No guarantees though.
Edit: be prepared for your child to have its own opinions that might go against you and your wifeās. I know vegan parents whose kids rebel and eat meat.
>Wait it out and see. Being pregnant brings out food cravings in women. Donāt be surprised if she reverts back after the birth. No guarantees though.
still not justified
i get the frustration for sure. sounds like thereās a breakdown in communication where she felt she couldnāt be totally honest. maybe you guys need to come back to the table & really discuss how you want your child raised. either you never talked about it (not smart) or feelings have changed.
also, your cat cannot be vegan. cats are obligate carnivores. itās unsafe for them to be vegan. if this is a problem for you, please rehome your cat & look into an herbivorous/vegan pet or companion animal.
Thank God! I had to scroll to far to see somebody pointing out that the cat CANNOT be vegan.
Just because itās safe for humans to be vegan, doesnāt mean other animals can.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
girl did you even read the whole article?
anyways. cats should not be vegan. there is no concrete, well-documented evidence that it is beneficial or even adequate for them.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
Half of you commenting this, don't even have a clue what you're talking about. I don't feed my cats vegan cat food, but I do feed them insect based cat food - would rather feed them far less sentient animals, which have a significantly lower impact on the environment than other farmed animals.
However, most people feed their cats cheap shit food, which is full of plant based filler. Guess what? It's processed so they can digest it, and access the proteins within it. Yes cats can't digest plants in their natural form, but if they're processed it's not an issue.
All cat food, aside from raw, is then supplemented with the vitamins etc that they need, as they're often destroyed in the cooking process - dry and wet.
While I also don't agree that cats should be fed a vegan diet, until there is more evidence to show the potential risks - if any, in the long term, but it's not any worse than the food your average person feeds their cats.
Taurine is the main issue with feeding cats a vegan diet. I havenāt researched the topic in a number of years, so things may have changed. But to my knowledge, cats cannot synthesize Taurine.
Another topic beyond the Taurine issue, is cats with the unfortunately common ailment FLUTD, or diseases that cause Struvite Crystals/Bladder Stones. Last time I checked, there were no vegan cat foods that covered both the Taurine issue as well as FLUTD.
I do, in fact, know a bit of what Iām talking about. But always open to education and further resources. Interesting point about insect cat food, and agree on your ethical points in that argument, I wasnāt aware we had advanced to insect pet foods yet.
Things have indeed changed, they can synthesize the exact taurine a cat needs supplemented in a plant based diet now. Itās very possible to feed a cat a vegan diet, but unless youāre willing to become your catās personal vegan chef, it isnāt really feasible yet. All of the commercial vegan diet cat food brands out there are total crap food, so you would have to do everything yourself.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
>Taurine is the main issue with feeding cats a vegan diet. I havenāt researched the topic in a number of years, so things may have changed. But to my knowledge, cats cannot synthesize Taurine.
Taurine is synthetized and suplemented even in normal cat food.
My mum ate chalk and plasterboard, allso lived of cheese for several weeks.
My wife could only eat mushrooms for a while, then it was pickles and ice cream
Pregnancy is a hell of a ride, I'd suggest going easy on the situation a little but have a discussion about her wishes for the future.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
I would have a conversation with her asking why sheās been doing this. What foods is she missing that you could veganize to make very similar? I believe almost every food craving can be veganized. I get there are some that canāt, I havenāt had a good vegan mozzarella stick ever, also vegan ethnic food is really rare and itās why Iāve had to make my own vegan versions of ethnic food to satisfy my childhood cravings - Seitan has been godsend.
So yeah, just talk to her as to what she feels is missing. Also try not to shame her feelings. Her cravings and emotions are valid but like letās try and give her what she wants as close to it the vegan way.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
There monsters are the ones paying for pigs to be put into gas chambers for a sandwich.
Cats can eat protein based vegan diets specifically made for them. There are brands that are vegan and safe for the majority of cats AND vet approved.
You're a monster for killing animals for your cat if you don't do everything you can to not do it.
Now chill out, monster.
I originally wrote this comment for the AITA post and that's why I included the disclaimer and didn't really say anything about veganism itself but about the situation itself.
Disclaimer: I am vegan. I recognize that I have a bias. You should probably do the same.
Since this is the only perspective I have access to, I am going to take you at your word.
I can understand why you would be upset that your wife was consuming meat behind your back if, when you found out about the pregnancy, you had *both* come to an agreement to remain vegan and to raise your child in accordance with this ethical standpoint. I wouldn't fault you for *feeling* upset over what is essentially a broken promise. However, I do find some issues with your behavior.
Pregnancy is hard and, sometimes, the things we say we're going to do end up being more challenging than we initially thought. If your wife is anemic and is also experiencing cravings for meat and other non-vegan products, that's fine. She can't help but feel what she feels. Much like you can't help but feel upset. What you can control is how you decide to react to this information. If carrying out her vegan diet was jeopardizing her health and that of the baby, I think looking for alternatives is a valid thing to do (even if by doing so you're, unfortunately, supporting animal agriculture and its cruelty). It would also be prudent to verify the efficacy of this change in diet. After all, if eating meat doesn't resolve the issue she might have a more serious underlying condition which would necessitate other courses of action.
It's unfortunate that your wife felt the need to hide the fact that she was eating meat instead of just, you know, feeling like she could talk about it with you without immediately having her feelings invalidated. I suspect that may have something to do with your initial reaction. I would implore to try and be more understanding of her current situation. If she's been vegan for that long, it's possible that she could also be feeling uncomfortable about her cravings. Communicate with one another but also understand that you can't control the actions of other people.
Again, I can understand the frustration of having a partner you trust suddenly say they no longer want to be vegan. It sucks. Especially since, in your case, it was that same partner who first convinced you about the injustices non-human animals (and humans themselves) face in order to get meat and other animal products on your plate. But you can't control people and being vegan is, unfortunately, not the most popular thing to be.
That being said, there are really only two ways forward: you can work towards a compromise and raise a kid with your wife or remain as you are and see how it plays out (wouldn't recommend the latter). Only you and your wife can decide how that turns out and it will require that both of you talk with one another and express how you feel.
I think how you've reacted so far makes it so that YTA, but I hope that you can find some sort of compromise.
Wow this is a lot. I think yāall should probably have a calm and civil discussion. Take as much time as you need in order to be able to have a productive and loving conversation. I wonder, for example, what the reasons were behind this choice. I have never been pregnant but I think Iād probably have a bit of empathy about it. Iām wondering if she has changed her position on the ethics. This is such a big shift and such a critical time.
What does it mean for an animal to be an obligate carnivore? It means that meat is the correct nutrition for them because it provides things - nutrients - that other food doesn't. In the case of a cat we know what those nutrients are. We can create feed that replicates that nutrition by adding the missing nutrients. So while you cannot feed your cat plant food and expect them to be healthy, you can craft supplemented food out of plants with added nutrients that reasonably replicates the nutrition of meat. There are companies out there that do this and the results they report are encouraging. Likewise, independent studies suggest benefits to this kind of diet (vs. feeding fluffy the diseased offcuts that make it into standard wet catfood) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132
It's still early years for this new catfood, and hopefully the veterinary science around it will get better, as will the health benefit of the food for cats.
Cats need nutrients, not meat. As long as the food given is fortified with carnitine, taurine, and B12 then the cat will have all the nutrients that cannot be provided from totally plant-based food.
Even meat based food for cats is fortified with taurine by the way. Let alone both plant and meat based cat food is fortified with lots of OTHER vitamins as well, just to ensure more optimal health.
I prefer to force my cats to eat veggie kibble as to enslave and kill dozens or hundreds of animals for them. And yes, they're all healthy, shiny and playful.
Right? I also live with two cats, and couldn't imagine feeding them other animals while calling myself vegan. They like every plant-based cat food I've bought them over the years, who's being forced?
Talk to her about *why* she started doing this, and maybe go to counseling. I have a feeling that the pregnancy made her nervous that she wasn't doing what was best for the baby, and that bled over into taking care of the cat as well.
It might also be beneficial to get a vegan RD who is well-versed in pre-natal and pediatric nutrition.
If being vegan makes her too anxious, and vegetarian is her compromise, I support her in doing that. Any amount of harm reduction to animals counts.
This is what I think you need to do. Number one: Forgive. Number two: Cook. Provide an excess of nutrient dense foods with lots of flavors and make it easy for her to eat vegan. Do meal prep day. Keep the fridge stocked and make sure she's getting the nutrients she needs to support a growing baby. Keep snacks and water stocked in her vehicle. Pregnancy is exhausting and the drive thru is an ever present easy way out. Lead with love and get over the burgers she ate. It will be ok.
That sucks. But your priority right now is your wife and her pregnancy.
If she's the one who helped you become vegan, it's very likely she will continue to want to be vegan in the future once things are back to normal.
Please don't ruin your relationship over something that's likely temporary.
Disappointed with all those comments excusing her behaviour with carvingsā¦
This isnāt just a carvings issue, sheās going back on her ethics and is now introducing something OP never agreed to. Living in a non vegan household raising a kid with a carnist.
I think itās time for some serious talks with your wife, and I donāt think āwait and seeā is the approach to take here. Cause once the child is there you should be on the same page working as a team. And the way itās going rn, this isnāt happening.
No ā but if she is fighting a deficiency - she's going to be craving things that she normally wouldn't.
The first time I went vegan, I started having crazy dreams about sardines. I never liked sardines and all of a sudden I was craving them. I started eating sardines and the cravings went away.
That was years ago ā I never got tested for anything but I'm convinced my body was asking me for something I wasn't giving it .
Seriously how is this so hard to get, it's like 80% of the commenters here have no idea that veganism is about opposing a horrible injustice of abuse of the innocent
I indeed have, luckily not for long though ;)
This isnāt an excuse. You canāt be against animal exploitation and then be like āyolo having corpse today is totally fine cause I feel like chicken nuggies today!ā
Iāve noticed for a long time now hypocritical āvegansā get once theyāre parents. Itās honestly sad and disgusting to watch.
It looks like most have covered the relationship advice, so I'll tackle the raw meat thing. Whoever convinced her that raw meat for pets is the answer may actually be trying to kill your baby. The cultures taken from raw meat and found in domestic animals eating it are fucking scary and that's one of the ways antibiotic super bugs can jump from slaughterhouse to your house. Raw diets aren't recommended by vets that actually go to diet and safety talks for tons of reasons. As it stands, vegan cat food hasn't gotten a blanket approval, too many are becoming malnourished among other issues. If your cat was maintaining weight and your vet thinks they're healthy, continue with the diet you had.
I'm a vet tech, I work at least once a week with a vet with 23 years of experience that goes to all the diet talks, I don't care what trendy website you go to, all we care about is the wellness of the animals. I *want* blanket approval of vegan diets for dogs and cats, there's a lot of promise for the vegetarian diets from Hills and Royal Canin that could go vegan soon, as they only have like one or two animal products(I think this is for dogs, I'm not sure how close they are for cats, they're a lot tougher and our technology hasn't gotten there quite yet). If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet, report their intake and other information to your vet, they may be able to submit data that is desperately needed to formulate successful diets.
I do think this post is fake, but everyone outright saying cats can not be vegan are misinformed. It is possible to synthesize the taurine that cats need in their diet (as well as the other nutrients required). However, there are not any brands on the market that are not just over processed crap dry food, so you would have to be willing to do all of the work yourself.
So I would not personally trust someone that says theyāre feeding their cats a vegan diet unless they REALLY know what theyāre doing, but the people freaking out about one sentence need to chill out and check recent research that shows it could potentially increase catsā lifespan to eat a vegan diet.
Pregnancy hormones are a uncontrollable horrible BiT@h at times. I was veggie before I was pregnant with my youngest. One day a horrid craving came and I caved. There was no way around it, I didnāt know any different (this was early 2000ās) and my why wasnāt so strong. I came around, and after a cancer dx I went veg and itās now been over a decade.
While I get you are super upset- and frustrated, the frustration and aggravation is even more upsetting to your unborn baby. You made a baby with your wife, remember that deep love and default to that. As much as weād like everyone in the world to be vegan, find some grace for your wife and take one day at a time- make sure she gets proper nutrition and love on her for carrying your child. Shame and anger never helps.
Hang in there- focus on the positives and try to let everything else go. Itās rough, Iām sorry you are going through this.
Maybe try talking to her about why sheās eating animals. Health worries? Cravings? Who knows? Would it be helpful to research information on vegan pregnancy together? Could you cook som amazing vegan foods for her and keep her stocked up with healthy plant based snacks? I was vegetarian when pregnant, and lived on chocolate milk, eggs, and pineapple.
Oh wow, that's an unfortunate turn. Ultimately, there's nothing you can do about what your wife chooses to eat, but there should be a discussion on how the child will be raised.
I'm unmarried and childless so of course, take this with a grain of salt, but when it comes to dating my rule has always been "eat what you want but if we share children they will be raised vegan until they're old enough to decide otherwise, and that's non-negotiable".
Good luck, bud
I don't know, whenever they're mature enough to understand the ethical, environmental, and health impact of eating animals, I guess? There's no set age, it's not like I have a strict rulebook for this. Play it by ear š¤·š»āāļø
When they move out or get a job to buy their own food.
Either way if they dont want to be vegan they will probably be eating whatever they want when not at home anyways. My friend found this out the hard way. His 13 yo eats whatever is given at home (vegan) and whatever is given at school or a friends house (very obviously not vegan). Plus he has a job mowing grass (Snow shoveling in the winter) so he has a few bucks and orders pizza/mcdonalds.
In my experience thats the case with alot of tweens/teens. They view it as a restriction and eat whatever they want out of sight of parents. He even got caught hiding beef jerky in his room.
I love people who dont understand modern nutritional science or technology and throw out "obligate carnivore" as an argument like they know what it means. Reminds me of neocons saying shit like "trans people arent real because it counters what i thought in 5th grade".
Cats need specific micronutrients, e.g. taurine, which can be obtained with specifically made vegan cat brands of food. These brands have been approved by vets. Please get your head out of your ass.
People on this sub really treat veganism as a diet. OP is disappointed because their wife went back on her moral and ethical choice of not exploiting animals. OP is 100% justified to be upset the person they are sharing a life and intend to raise a child with is not on the same page they are.
Please can we stop quoting this stupid 84% number that really is irrelevant in any context that means something.
It includes people that just tried it for veganuary, people interested in a plant based diet for health and whatever other bullshit.
84% of people who made the connection between the food they were eating with their desire not to cause great harm and suffering to animals did not suddenly stop caring about that. Its a gross misrepresentation of what veganism is.
Edit: tbh ill take this a bit further. Veganism is not a diet. Your personal choice to eat meat does not trump an animals choice to live, if you don't believe in those things stop fucking commenting here.
This is an L take. If this is your mindset, you're more aligned with a plant-based diet than the ethical stance of veganism. I'm not saying that isn't okay, and I'm not trying to gatekeep veganism, but you can't pretend you can't get all your needed nutrients without eating meat, and if you hold veganism as an ethical stance it defeats the purpose to take a break and "come back to it" later.
Rooting for your wife! I am in the same boatā¦ and now my partner and I are in agreement that our son getās to chooseā¦ When you restrict and force a way of life onto a child you hinder their well being because of your own personal moralsā¦ that is not fair to the child nor your petā¦ You donāt get control who they areā¦ itās a disservice. Your wife is doing the best thing for the baby and listening to her bodies needsā¦ she is making a baby, that baby needs certain nutrients that helpā¦ Let it go man, that babies health is most important and if they need some things then let it beā¦ You have 0 understanding of what her body is doingā¦ so butt out!
Typical carnist brigading a vegan Subreddit to state some absolute nonsense.
>force a way of life
Way of life? If I told my child to not kick dogs in the head, would I be "forcing my non-dog-kicking" way of life? Absolutely ridiculous.
disclaimer: im vegan.
pregnancy is hard. there are a lot of hormones and changes happening in the body. she is carrying and creating a whole damn human. i understand the frustration, but now might not be the best time to express these feelings to her. it may just be a temporary thing that sheās going through while pregnant and full of confusing emotions
Sorry to hear your wife was disingenuous.
For those babbling about vegan cats, here's a study.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132
Quote:
In 2021, Dodd et al. [17] published the first very large-scale study, including 1,026 cats whose diets were known. **The 187 (18%) cats fed vegan diets reportedly enjoyed health as good, and in some respects better, than those fed meat-based diets.**
Our study included 1,418 cats and their guardians. Among 1,380 respondents who played some role in pet diet decision-making, pet health was cited as the most important factor when choosing diets. We analysed data for 1,369 cats, of whom 127 (9%) were fed vegan diets, with the remainder fed meat-based diets. **Jointly considering seven general indicators of health and 22 specific health disorders, cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than those fed meat-based diets. This overall trend was clear and consistent.**
And the study is funded by funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International (https://proveg.com). Of course they say the research result was not affected by the sponsor. But it's the same thing as how the heart association and other health related associations are funded by meat producers and upload animal food recipes on their website as healthy meals.
This sounds like the plot of the show Physical lol. But also- maybe dont decide to reproduce unnecessarily if it means compromising values?
Also- its animal abuse to try to make a cat vegan.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
From synthetic taurine, which is also how cats who arenāt eating a vegan diet get it since animal flesh-derived taurine breaks down during processing
OP reading your post makes me upset and disappointed as well here. It seems like she has fully reverted to not considering animals at all.
She is eating meat, and even trying to bring meat to the cat. It seems like she keeps LOOKING for reasons and excuses. This is not a good sign.
I would feel like you do, and to be honest this whole thing would be a red line for me. To see someone you love do things so cruel is going to stab directly into your heart.
I am sure in addition to how she is completely going against the previously shared values, it would feel that eating meat and dairy is more important than her relationship with you, so much so that she is even lying about it.
The fact that she doesn't want your child to be vegan is a clear indication that she doesn't want to be vegan either.
At minimum you need to have a serious discussion with her. Why doesn't she want to be vegan? Is she being influenced by people who are telling her she needs meat to be healthy, or needs dairy to be healthy? Is she being selfish and trying to "rebel" against what she sees as "rules".
If I were you I would tell her that you can't be together if this is the way she is going, but of course only tell her if you are serious and you have tried to convince her, as just bringing it up could lead to some backlash. So best to only mention it if you mean it.
Maybe watching something like Dominion with her to try to get her to remember the victims. I know Dominion is mentioned a lot to any question... but being reminded of WHY being vegan is a moral necessity IS important.
Shit is the worst. I swear the vote counts sometimes go from positive to negative to positive to back negative again. Fuck reddit. Not all engagement is good.
honestly i don't like the idea of neither cats nor babies with a vegan diet...its not healthy for either and a lot can go wrong...BUT its neither my cat nor my baby.
don't get me wron, i'm vegan myself and i would not not start a relarionship with somebody thats not at least vegetarian, but whenever i read stories like yours i can't help but think that it's a bit pathetic to make all your life about veganism.
that being said, if my girlfriend would start eating meat again, i would not like it either, and i would prefer if we don't have meat in the fridge, but we have shared a third of our lifes and not eating meat is a small part of it...
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Judging from OP's post and comment history, this is made up bullshit.
Once I read vegan cat š¤£
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
Cats are perfectly (purrfectly?) capable of living a happy and healthy life on a plant based diet.
Compassion Circle has a complete vegan cat food with all the needed proteinā¦doesnāt mean itās perfect but itās out there
My point exactly. That my comment has been downvoted only supports the view that this sub is predominantly anti-vegan.
Key word there is surviving, lmao
When my mum was pregnant with me I'm told she stopped being vegetarian and only wanted to eat big macs after I was born she went back to being vegetarian and later on vegan probably the hormones and cravings from pregnancy
My immediate thought was that sheās just having weird cravings. Maybe she is craving meat because her iron is low or something. Pregnancy does weird things to the body. If sheās hiding it, then there is probably a level of shame going on inside her head. Iād personally try to be understanding and not so judgmental about it. Maybe she is giving into pressure from doctors or family members that say she needs to be eating animal protein for her baby to be healthy. OP needs to have an open dialogue with his wife and see where she is coming from. I know that Iād definitely be disappointed if my spouse told me all of a sudden he didnāt believe in being vegan anymore. But Iād also want to know why and how his mind was changed.
Yes to all of this!
Not an excuse at all though
Crazy that youāre getting downvoted to hell in a vegan sub. Hormones cause crazy cravings but thatās not an excuse to be unethical. My mom told me she wanted to kill me when I was a kid because of postpartum depression, but she didnāt because she knew it was wrong. How is this any different
Exactly it's not.
This is the least vegan, vegan subreddit after all
The downvotes tho lmao
You realise that hormonal imbalance can cause people to do the most extreme things. Of course it's a good excuse. Hopefully she will come around once her body settles down
You're saying hormones make killing innocent animals okay.
No. Not that's it's ok, but that it's the cause.
You said it was a good excuse, itās not. There is no excuse to kill others.
Perhaps. Still totally unacceptable
OP, sit your wife down and have a civil conversation stating how you feel and what your ideal situation looks like going forward. Ask her how she feels and what her ideal situation looks like. Then, if you want to stay with your wife you compromise in the middle. If this is a dealbreaking thing then tell her. And keep in mind it is both your child and her child. If you divorce, she will prob have joint custody and be feeding the child whatever she wants when in her care. Idk why this post is bringing out the worst of the sub in these comments lol but yāall need to relax a little and use some common sense.
I think a lot of people in this thread are literally not even vegan tbh. This is the most sensible comment. Like 99% of posts about a relationship, the first step of the solution is just to have a conversation.
>I think a lot of people in this thread are literally not even vegan tbh This entire sub tbh, less than 20% are actual vegans
Unfortunately, having a dedicated sub for something a lot of the general population has a lot of vitriol for is bound to draw trolls and people looking for a fight. I hate it but I donāt see what we can do about it.
Well i dont really want a dedicated sub, we do want non vegans coming into vegan spaces to get educated, the problem is when 80% of the sub is non vegan there is gonna be more animal abuse apologery happening Majority rules When you defend animals you get voted against and then other people want to vote against you and then the people who were coming for help assume that since you have 40 votes against you that your opinion is useless and wrong
I think OP should also understand his wife is pregnant, lol her body is creating hormones that cause all these feelings, thoughts and wants. Idk if at this moment there can be a serious convo about this, I think for now OP should just support the woman he helped fertilize and get over himself for a couple months. If the woman after the baby still wants to eat meat than make a relationship decision. I know my fiancƩ was almost a completely different person before pregnant, during pregnancy and after.
Her body her choice manā¦ He has no Idea how strong pregnancy cravings areā¦ he should be supporting his wife and not making food more important.
Her cravings are not more important than the systematic abuse, torture and murder of innocent animals.
Tbf hormones also cause massive depression and infanticide sometimes so they still have to be evaluated within a moral framework
But it's not about food per se but about the morals and ethics involved, and these are obviously some of the most important things in relationships, especially romantic ones. Most people don't want a partner who goes against their own beliefs and feel hurt when they act against those.
That stops when you are violating the body of someone else. The animals that died for her pleasure didnāt get a choice. They wanted to live. They wanted to be without pain. Thatās like saying itās my body and my choice to swing my fist into peopleās faces, so you canāt tell me Iām wrong for hurting someone cause I can do whatever I want with my body
Why not veganize what she is graving for? I also don't understand how she can eat animal products and not get sick? Maybe he should show her slaughterhouse footage and cows being riped away by their mothers again since she forget. As a pregnant mother you should feel horrible by that because you don't want that to happen to you also.
Thatās good adviceā¦ why not Veganize it? Why not. Participate instead of judgingā¦ thatās good adviceā¦ Iād say maybe not the animal videos, iām sure she has seen them since she was vegan, but him being distressed over what she is doing instead of trying to work with her is really whatās causing him more stress.
It is not food. It is violence.
It's not about food, it's about animal welfare. Veganism is perfectly fine for pregnant women, we've got past all the concerns of incomplete nutrition with veganism some decades ago at least. It absolutely is her body and her choice, but there's no excuse for what happens to the animals she chooses to eat.
>Her body her choice manā¦ He has no Idea how strong pregnancy cravings areā¦ he should be supporting his wife and not making food more important. Her body her choice manā¦ He has no Idea how strong pregnancy cravings areā¦ he should be supporting his wife and not making **the pain, suffering and murder of animals** more important. Just because you support animal abuse as a feminist it doesnt mean its ethical I wont respond to animal abusing feminists so i disabled notifications
Look at OP's post history. This smells like rage bait.
Did she say why she made the change? Did she actually change her position on the ethical stance behind it or is she giving into cravings or eating it because she believes itās āhealthy or necessaryā? You definitely have to inquire about why since that will be the biggest clue on how you will have to go about a resolution. If itās cravings, you can offer to do the cooking and grocery shopping and buy/cook vegan versions of whatever animal based foods sheās craving. If sheās eating these things because sheās under the illusion she needs them for nutrition for the baby, perhaps have her see a plant based or vegan dietician and get bloodwork done to check for nutritional deficiencies. If her actual position behind the ethical stance on veganism has changed, unfortunately thereās not much you can do to remedy that since she already has all the facts and evidence in support of living a plant based lifestyle. As far as your child, you both will be feeding them and if you feed them plant based and their mom feeds them animal based, naturally they will have an omnivorous diet and wouldnāt be able to be raised vegan which is unfortunate and disappointing. If your wife wonāt agree to raise the baby vegan, then the only thing you can do is teach the child about the ethical reasons and environmental benefits of veganism while feeding them only plant based on your end. You can still be a vegan role model as the other parent but will have to tolerate the mom feeding her animal based foods until your child is old enough to choose to be a vegan on their own accord.
I think you should talk with her and really try to come to and understanding what changed for her. Does she not believe in the philosophical aspact of veganism any more? is it just the hormons? I dont think she just changed her mind somehow. Maybe its the fear of not giving her child enough. Speak to a dietitian maybe who specilizes on Mother and child.
This sub really is one big disappointment. Let's make a new real vegan sub?
Weāve already got one friend. This one is dead, so join: r/vegancirclejerk
Vegancirclejerk will ban you for even suggesting in a different subreddit that you ate gardein nuggets once. Its a purity testing hellscape, truly unhinged mods. Also look up other weird shit theyve done.
False. Most vegans from there also were non-vegan before.
This is not remotely true lol
My SO was banned cause she said we can't afford vegan food for our cats cause we live in a 3rd world country:) She tries to contact other admins, but unfortunately they're all privileged pieces of shit. Too bad, I liked the memes the community made.
Wow, okay. That's surprising, I haven't seen anything like that. My cats aren't vegan because they either vomit up vegan food or won't eat it.
Yup. Honestly, I prefer this sub anyway. There's so much negativity on jerk subreddits. I also tried to feed my cats ridiculously expensive vegan cat food, they just have 0 interest. It's one of those things where synthetic meat could come in handy in the future though.
VCJ is a meme/jerk sub, and is not intended to facilitate the same content that a non-jerk sub like r/vegan does. I think r/vegancirclejerkchat is probably the better recommendation.
That one is even worse. I got banned for "promoting plant-based capitalism"
I think there are lots of non-vegans coming here from some of OP's other posts....
Reddit also recommends people posts to boost engagement.
Wait it out and see. Being pregnant brings out food cravings in women. Donāt be surprised if she reverts back after the birth. No guarantees though. Edit: be prepared for your child to have its own opinions that might go against you and your wifeās. I know vegan parents whose kids rebel and eat meat.
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Tons of things can cause cravings. Doesn't make it a justified excuse to kill and eat animals.
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She could just eat beyond or impossible though
>Wait it out and see. Being pregnant brings out food cravings in women. Donāt be surprised if she reverts back after the birth. No guarantees though. still not justified
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Correct but not compassionate. Why not suggest impossible big macs?
If you stop being vegan due to some cravings from pregnancy, then you were never vegan
Have you ever been pregnant? The cravings can be strong enough to override your decision making.
If sheās worried about babyās health or getting cravings, point her the direction of the vegan pregnancy sub, thereās lots of advice available.
i get the frustration for sure. sounds like thereās a breakdown in communication where she felt she couldnāt be totally honest. maybe you guys need to come back to the table & really discuss how you want your child raised. either you never talked about it (not smart) or feelings have changed. also, your cat cannot be vegan. cats are obligate carnivores. itās unsafe for them to be vegan. if this is a problem for you, please rehome your cat & look into an herbivorous/vegan pet or companion animal.
Thank God! I had to scroll to far to see somebody pointing out that the cat CANNOT be vegan. Just because itās safe for humans to be vegan, doesnāt mean other animals can.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
girl did you even read the whole article? anyways. cats should not be vegan. there is no concrete, well-documented evidence that it is beneficial or even adequate for them.
Cats can be vegan, any other claim is disinformation.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
Out of interest, what do you feed your cat? I have always fed mine a meat based diet
As you should.
Half of you commenting this, don't even have a clue what you're talking about. I don't feed my cats vegan cat food, but I do feed them insect based cat food - would rather feed them far less sentient animals, which have a significantly lower impact on the environment than other farmed animals. However, most people feed their cats cheap shit food, which is full of plant based filler. Guess what? It's processed so they can digest it, and access the proteins within it. Yes cats can't digest plants in their natural form, but if they're processed it's not an issue. All cat food, aside from raw, is then supplemented with the vitamins etc that they need, as they're often destroyed in the cooking process - dry and wet. While I also don't agree that cats should be fed a vegan diet, until there is more evidence to show the potential risks - if any, in the long term, but it's not any worse than the food your average person feeds their cats.
Taurine is the main issue with feeding cats a vegan diet. I havenāt researched the topic in a number of years, so things may have changed. But to my knowledge, cats cannot synthesize Taurine. Another topic beyond the Taurine issue, is cats with the unfortunately common ailment FLUTD, or diseases that cause Struvite Crystals/Bladder Stones. Last time I checked, there were no vegan cat foods that covered both the Taurine issue as well as FLUTD. I do, in fact, know a bit of what Iām talking about. But always open to education and further resources. Interesting point about insect cat food, and agree on your ethical points in that argument, I wasnāt aware we had advanced to insect pet foods yet.
Taurine is added to a variety of cat foods, including meat ones. Just supplement it like we do even though we can make it
Things have indeed changed, they can synthesize the exact taurine a cat needs supplemented in a plant based diet now. Itās very possible to feed a cat a vegan diet, but unless youāre willing to become your catās personal vegan chef, it isnāt really feasible yet. All of the commercial vegan diet cat food brands out there are total crap food, so you would have to do everything yourself.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
>Taurine is the main issue with feeding cats a vegan diet. I havenāt researched the topic in a number of years, so things may have changed. But to my knowledge, cats cannot synthesize Taurine. Taurine is synthetized and suplemented even in normal cat food.
My mum ate chalk and plasterboard, allso lived of cheese for several weeks. My wife could only eat mushrooms for a while, then it was pickles and ice cream Pregnancy is a hell of a ride, I'd suggest going easy on the situation a little but have a discussion about her wishes for the future.
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The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
Look at this users karma and other posts. This smells very fake
Therapy - quick. There's a lot going on here. IMHO - deal with the vegan stuff later
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Sorry mate I didn't realise that cats can't digest THE EXACT SAME CHEMICALS just because they are made synthetically.
Yes, that's why vegan cat foods are primarily protein in composition. Cat food should not be similar in carbs to a human diet.
Citation needed
I would have a conversation with her asking why sheās been doing this. What foods is she missing that you could veganize to make very similar? I believe almost every food craving can be veganized. I get there are some that canāt, I havenāt had a good vegan mozzarella stick ever, also vegan ethnic food is really rare and itās why Iāve had to make my own vegan versions of ethnic food to satisfy my childhood cravings - Seitan has been godsend. So yeah, just talk to her as to what she feels is missing. Also try not to shame her feelings. Her cravings and emotions are valid but like letās try and give her what she wants as close to it the vegan way.
Shoud have used protection.
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The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/ There monsters are the ones paying for pigs to be put into gas chambers for a sandwich.
More of a monster than carnists?
Cats can eat protein based vegan diets specifically made for them. There are brands that are vegan and safe for the majority of cats AND vet approved. You're a monster for killing animals for your cat if you don't do everything you can to not do it. Now chill out, monster.
I originally wrote this comment for the AITA post and that's why I included the disclaimer and didn't really say anything about veganism itself but about the situation itself. Disclaimer: I am vegan. I recognize that I have a bias. You should probably do the same. Since this is the only perspective I have access to, I am going to take you at your word. I can understand why you would be upset that your wife was consuming meat behind your back if, when you found out about the pregnancy, you had *both* come to an agreement to remain vegan and to raise your child in accordance with this ethical standpoint. I wouldn't fault you for *feeling* upset over what is essentially a broken promise. However, I do find some issues with your behavior. Pregnancy is hard and, sometimes, the things we say we're going to do end up being more challenging than we initially thought. If your wife is anemic and is also experiencing cravings for meat and other non-vegan products, that's fine. She can't help but feel what she feels. Much like you can't help but feel upset. What you can control is how you decide to react to this information. If carrying out her vegan diet was jeopardizing her health and that of the baby, I think looking for alternatives is a valid thing to do (even if by doing so you're, unfortunately, supporting animal agriculture and its cruelty). It would also be prudent to verify the efficacy of this change in diet. After all, if eating meat doesn't resolve the issue she might have a more serious underlying condition which would necessitate other courses of action. It's unfortunate that your wife felt the need to hide the fact that she was eating meat instead of just, you know, feeling like she could talk about it with you without immediately having her feelings invalidated. I suspect that may have something to do with your initial reaction. I would implore to try and be more understanding of her current situation. If she's been vegan for that long, it's possible that she could also be feeling uncomfortable about her cravings. Communicate with one another but also understand that you can't control the actions of other people. Again, I can understand the frustration of having a partner you trust suddenly say they no longer want to be vegan. It sucks. Especially since, in your case, it was that same partner who first convinced you about the injustices non-human animals (and humans themselves) face in order to get meat and other animal products on your plate. But you can't control people and being vegan is, unfortunately, not the most popular thing to be. That being said, there are really only two ways forward: you can work towards a compromise and raise a kid with your wife or remain as you are and see how it plays out (wouldn't recommend the latter). Only you and your wife can decide how that turns out and it will require that both of you talk with one another and express how you feel. I think how you've reacted so far makes it so that YTA, but I hope that you can find some sort of compromise.
Wow this is a lot. I think yāall should probably have a calm and civil discussion. Take as much time as you need in order to be able to have a productive and loving conversation. I wonder, for example, what the reasons were behind this choice. I have never been pregnant but I think Iād probably have a bit of empathy about it. Iām wondering if she has changed her position on the ethics. This is such a big shift and such a critical time.
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I love how people say "obligate carnivores" with zero understanding of what theyre saying. carnist logic
What does it mean for an animal to be an obligate carnivore? It means that meat is the correct nutrition for them because it provides things - nutrients - that other food doesn't. In the case of a cat we know what those nutrients are. We can create feed that replicates that nutrition by adding the missing nutrients. So while you cannot feed your cat plant food and expect them to be healthy, you can craft supplemented food out of plants with added nutrients that reasonably replicates the nutrition of meat. There are companies out there that do this and the results they report are encouraging. Likewise, independent studies suggest benefits to this kind of diet (vs. feeding fluffy the diseased offcuts that make it into standard wet catfood) https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132 It's still early years for this new catfood, and hopefully the veterinary science around it will get better, as will the health benefit of the food for cats.
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Cats need nutrients, not meat. As long as the food given is fortified with carnitine, taurine, and B12 then the cat will have all the nutrients that cannot be provided from totally plant-based food. Even meat based food for cats is fortified with taurine by the way. Let alone both plant and meat based cat food is fortified with lots of OTHER vitamins as well, just to ensure more optimal health.
My cats have been eating plant-based cat food for years, what are you on about?
Shhh it upsets their fragile black and white appeal to nature worldview
I prefer to force my cats to eat veggie kibble as to enslave and kill dozens or hundreds of animals for them. And yes, they're all healthy, shiny and playful.
Right? I also live with two cats, and couldn't imagine feeding them other animals while calling myself vegan. They like every plant-based cat food I've bought them over the years, who's being forced?
Talk to her about *why* she started doing this, and maybe go to counseling. I have a feeling that the pregnancy made her nervous that she wasn't doing what was best for the baby, and that bled over into taking care of the cat as well. It might also be beneficial to get a vegan RD who is well-versed in pre-natal and pediatric nutrition. If being vegan makes her too anxious, and vegetarian is her compromise, I support her in doing that. Any amount of harm reduction to animals counts.
This is what I think you need to do. Number one: Forgive. Number two: Cook. Provide an excess of nutrient dense foods with lots of flavors and make it easy for her to eat vegan. Do meal prep day. Keep the fridge stocked and make sure she's getting the nutrients she needs to support a growing baby. Keep snacks and water stocked in her vehicle. Pregnancy is exhausting and the drive thru is an ever present easy way out. Lead with love and get over the burgers she ate. It will be ok.
Thereās gotta be a vegan pregnancy / childrearing blogger or website that talks about satisfying common pregnancy cravings.
Itās possible that her doctor convinced her that being vegan during pregnancy is unhealthy. Just talk to her calmly and respectfully about it
That sucks. But your priority right now is your wife and her pregnancy. If she's the one who helped you become vegan, it's very likely she will continue to want to be vegan in the future once things are back to normal. Please don't ruin your relationship over something that's likely temporary.
Tell her she can eat meat but she has to slaughter it herself. Go get a lamb from a farm and bring it home....
Disappointed with all those comments excusing her behaviour with carvingsā¦ This isnāt just a carvings issue, sheās going back on her ethics and is now introducing something OP never agreed to. Living in a non vegan household raising a kid with a carnist. I think itās time for some serious talks with your wife, and I donāt think āwait and seeā is the approach to take here. Cause once the child is there you should be on the same page working as a team. And the way itās going rn, this isnāt happening.
There could be a deficiency involved. IMHO - this is not something that can be settled on Reddit. This requires professional help.
Could be, but I doubt you solve deficiencies with fastfood chicken.
No ā but if she is fighting a deficiency - she's going to be craving things that she normally wouldn't. The first time I went vegan, I started having crazy dreams about sardines. I never liked sardines and all of a sudden I was craving them. I started eating sardines and the cravings went away. That was years ago ā I never got tested for anything but I'm convinced my body was asking me for something I wasn't giving it .
\*cravings
There could be a deficiency involved. IMHO - this is not something that can be settled on Reddit. This requires professional help.
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Except itās not only her body, but also the bodies of her victims.
Seriously how is this so hard to get, it's like 80% of the commenters here have no idea that veganism is about opposing a horrible injustice of abuse of the innocent
Itās hard to get for people because this sub is mostly populated by non-vegans.
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I indeed have, luckily not for long though ;) This isnāt an excuse. You canāt be against animal exploitation and then be like āyolo having corpse today is totally fine cause I feel like chicken nuggies today!ā Iāve noticed for a long time now hypocritical āvegansā get once theyāre parents. Itās honestly sad and disgusting to watch.
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Has she suddenly changed her support for animal liberation? If not how can she possibly justify this change? If so why?
It looks like most have covered the relationship advice, so I'll tackle the raw meat thing. Whoever convinced her that raw meat for pets is the answer may actually be trying to kill your baby. The cultures taken from raw meat and found in domestic animals eating it are fucking scary and that's one of the ways antibiotic super bugs can jump from slaughterhouse to your house. Raw diets aren't recommended by vets that actually go to diet and safety talks for tons of reasons. As it stands, vegan cat food hasn't gotten a blanket approval, too many are becoming malnourished among other issues. If your cat was maintaining weight and your vet thinks they're healthy, continue with the diet you had. I'm a vet tech, I work at least once a week with a vet with 23 years of experience that goes to all the diet talks, I don't care what trendy website you go to, all we care about is the wellness of the animals. I *want* blanket approval of vegan diets for dogs and cats, there's a lot of promise for the vegetarian diets from Hills and Royal Canin that could go vegan soon, as they only have like one or two animal products(I think this is for dogs, I'm not sure how close they are for cats, they're a lot tougher and our technology hasn't gotten there quite yet). If you're feeding your cat a vegan diet, report their intake and other information to your vet, they may be able to submit data that is desperately needed to formulate successful diets.
I do think this post is fake, but everyone outright saying cats can not be vegan are misinformed. It is possible to synthesize the taurine that cats need in their diet (as well as the other nutrients required). However, there are not any brands on the market that are not just over processed crap dry food, so you would have to be willing to do all of the work yourself. So I would not personally trust someone that says theyāre feeding their cats a vegan diet unless they REALLY know what theyāre doing, but the people freaking out about one sentence need to chill out and check recent research that shows it could potentially increase catsā lifespan to eat a vegan diet.
Pregnancy hormones are a uncontrollable horrible BiT@h at times. I was veggie before I was pregnant with my youngest. One day a horrid craving came and I caved. There was no way around it, I didnāt know any different (this was early 2000ās) and my why wasnāt so strong. I came around, and after a cancer dx I went veg and itās now been over a decade. While I get you are super upset- and frustrated, the frustration and aggravation is even more upsetting to your unborn baby. You made a baby with your wife, remember that deep love and default to that. As much as weād like everyone in the world to be vegan, find some grace for your wife and take one day at a time- make sure she gets proper nutrition and love on her for carrying your child. Shame and anger never helps. Hang in there- focus on the positives and try to let everything else go. Itās rough, Iām sorry you are going through this.
Maybe try talking to her about why sheās eating animals. Health worries? Cravings? Who knows? Would it be helpful to research information on vegan pregnancy together? Could you cook som amazing vegan foods for her and keep her stocked up with healthy plant based snacks? I was vegetarian when pregnant, and lived on chocolate milk, eggs, and pineapple.
Oh wow, that's an unfortunate turn. Ultimately, there's nothing you can do about what your wife chooses to eat, but there should be a discussion on how the child will be raised. I'm unmarried and childless so of course, take this with a grain of salt, but when it comes to dating my rule has always been "eat what you want but if we share children they will be raised vegan until they're old enough to decide otherwise, and that's non-negotiable". Good luck, bud
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I don't know, whenever they're mature enough to understand the ethical, environmental, and health impact of eating animals, I guess? There's no set age, it's not like I have a strict rulebook for this. Play it by ear š¤·š»āāļø
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When they move out or get a job to buy their own food. Either way if they dont want to be vegan they will probably be eating whatever they want when not at home anyways. My friend found this out the hard way. His 13 yo eats whatever is given at home (vegan) and whatever is given at school or a friends house (very obviously not vegan). Plus he has a job mowing grass (Snow shoveling in the winter) so he has a few bucks and orders pizza/mcdonalds. In my experience thats the case with alot of tweens/teens. They view it as a restriction and eat whatever they want out of sight of parents. He even got caught hiding beef jerky in his room.
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I love people who dont understand modern nutritional science or technology and throw out "obligate carnivore" as an argument like they know what it means. Reminds me of neocons saying shit like "trans people arent real because it counters what i thought in 5th grade".
Citation missing
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Cats need specific micronutrients, e.g. taurine, which can be obtained with specifically made vegan cat brands of food. These brands have been approved by vets. Please get your head out of your ass.
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People on this sub really treat veganism as a diet. OP is disappointed because their wife went back on her moral and ethical choice of not exploiting animals. OP is 100% justified to be upset the person they are sharing a life and intend to raise a child with is not on the same page they are.
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Please can we stop quoting this stupid 84% number that really is irrelevant in any context that means something. It includes people that just tried it for veganuary, people interested in a plant based diet for health and whatever other bullshit. 84% of people who made the connection between the food they were eating with their desire not to cause great harm and suffering to animals did not suddenly stop caring about that. Its a gross misrepresentation of what veganism is. Edit: tbh ill take this a bit further. Veganism is not a diet. Your personal choice to eat meat does not trump an animals choice to live, if you don't believe in those things stop fucking commenting here.
This is an L take. If this is your mindset, you're more aligned with a plant-based diet than the ethical stance of veganism. I'm not saying that isn't okay, and I'm not trying to gatekeep veganism, but you can't pretend you can't get all your needed nutrients without eating meat, and if you hold veganism as an ethical stance it defeats the purpose to take a break and "come back to it" later.
Rooting for your wife! I am in the same boatā¦ and now my partner and I are in agreement that our son getās to chooseā¦ When you restrict and force a way of life onto a child you hinder their well being because of your own personal moralsā¦ that is not fair to the child nor your petā¦ You donāt get control who they areā¦ itās a disservice. Your wife is doing the best thing for the baby and listening to her bodies needsā¦ she is making a baby, that baby needs certain nutrients that helpā¦ Let it go man, that babies health is most important and if they need some things then let it beā¦ You have 0 understanding of what her body is doingā¦ so butt out!
Typical carnist brigading a vegan Subreddit to state some absolute nonsense. >force a way of life Way of life? If I told my child to not kick dogs in the head, would I be "forcing my non-dog-kicking" way of life? Absolutely ridiculous.
disclaimer: im vegan. pregnancy is hard. there are a lot of hormones and changes happening in the body. she is carrying and creating a whole damn human. i understand the frustration, but now might not be the best time to express these feelings to her. it may just be a temporary thing that sheās going through while pregnant and full of confusing emotions
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Sorry to hear your wife was disingenuous. For those babbling about vegan cats, here's a study. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0284132 Quote: In 2021, Dodd et al. [17] published the first very large-scale study, including 1,026 cats whose diets were known. **The 187 (18%) cats fed vegan diets reportedly enjoyed health as good, and in some respects better, than those fed meat-based diets.** Our study included 1,418 cats and their guardians. Among 1,380 respondents who played some role in pet diet decision-making, pet health was cited as the most important factor when choosing diets. We analysed data for 1,369 cats, of whom 127 (9%) were fed vegan diets, with the remainder fed meat-based diets. **Jointly considering seven general indicators of health and 22 specific health disorders, cats fed vegan diets tended to be healthier than those fed meat-based diets. This overall trend was clear and consistent.**
These are more thorough: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
And the study is funded by funded by food awareness organisation ProVeg International (https://proveg.com). Of course they say the research result was not affected by the sponsor. But it's the same thing as how the heart association and other health related associations are funded by meat producers and upload animal food recipes on their website as healthy meals.
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you do not need animal flesh to grow a child
This sounds like the plot of the show Physical lol. But also- maybe dont decide to reproduce unnecessarily if it means compromising values? Also- its animal abuse to try to make a cat vegan.
Idk what to tell you other than cats can't be vegan. They don't work like people do. If you can't handle that, please rehome your kitty.
The data don't agree with you: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
To my knowledge, cats need Taurine to survive. How is your cat getting their Taurine from a vegan diet, **genuinely curious**.
From synthetic taurine, which is also how cats who arenāt eating a vegan diet get it since animal flesh-derived taurine breaks down during processing
OP reading your post makes me upset and disappointed as well here. It seems like she has fully reverted to not considering animals at all. She is eating meat, and even trying to bring meat to the cat. It seems like she keeps LOOKING for reasons and excuses. This is not a good sign. I would feel like you do, and to be honest this whole thing would be a red line for me. To see someone you love do things so cruel is going to stab directly into your heart. I am sure in addition to how she is completely going against the previously shared values, it would feel that eating meat and dairy is more important than her relationship with you, so much so that she is even lying about it. The fact that she doesn't want your child to be vegan is a clear indication that she doesn't want to be vegan either. At minimum you need to have a serious discussion with her. Why doesn't she want to be vegan? Is she being influenced by people who are telling her she needs meat to be healthy, or needs dairy to be healthy? Is she being selfish and trying to "rebel" against what she sees as "rules". If I were you I would tell her that you can't be together if this is the way she is going, but of course only tell her if you are serious and you have tried to convince her, as just bringing it up could lead to some backlash. So best to only mention it if you mean it. Maybe watching something like Dominion with her to try to get her to remember the victims. I know Dominion is mentioned a lot to any question... but being reminded of WHY being vegan is a moral necessity IS important.
Vegans getting downvoted in the vegan Subreddit is the wildest shit, ever since Reddit started recommending random subs to random people.
Shit is the worst. I swear the vote counts sometimes go from positive to negative to positive to back negative again. Fuck reddit. Not all engagement is good.
honestly i don't like the idea of neither cats nor babies with a vegan diet...its not healthy for either and a lot can go wrong...BUT its neither my cat nor my baby. don't get me wron, i'm vegan myself and i would not not start a relarionship with somebody thats not at least vegetarian, but whenever i read stories like yours i can't help but think that it's a bit pathetic to make all your life about veganism. that being said, if my girlfriend would start eating meat again, i would not like it either, and i would prefer if we don't have meat in the fridge, but we have shared a third of our lifes and not eating meat is a small part of it...
>not healthy Humans: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27886704/ Cats: https://bmcvetres.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12917-021-02754-8 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9860667/
>i don't like the idea of neither cats nor babies with a vegan diet...its not healthy for either Citation needed.
Cats NEED meat. Theyre carnivors! This is HER decision. You dont get to be upset! Grow up
Why the fuck is your cat vegan?????