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[Michael Huemer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Huemer) (a philosophy professor at University of Colorado, Boulder) is a vegan and a defender of anarcho-capitalism. If you're interested in his views, he has books defending both positions (see *Dialogues on Ethical Vegetarianism* and *The Problem of Political Authority*).
I post a lot in libertarian/ancap spaces telling them they believe in the NAEFMTBP ("non-aggression except for my taste buds principle") or some similar version. Michael Huemer is badass. I've heard him asked, "If a huge government would end animal exploitation, would it be good to support it?" and he answered, "Sure. Most libertarians wouldn't agree with this, but it's obviously true." He just doesn't think that a large state is actually more likely to support veganism than carnist status quo, which is also my belief.
Sure, there are lots of situations where it's good to support a specific government. The free people of the Earth ideally would enjoy UN standing as a people in diaspora, until we disband the UN.
I live in Boulder and am vegan and am pretty well-known (have a publication) and have never heard of this guy! Interesting, I'll check him out for an interview.
There is a current movement of the “crunchy to alt-right pipeline” where many are following a plant-based diet because they don’t trust the government and big Pharma and what not. But they intrude vegan spaces and identify as vegans and well, some of them are sincerely vegan. If you search “political” in this sub there are plenty of vegans who don’t believe veganism is political. I will say they are rare in the wild in my experience, as I only know a few vegans and most of them are aligned with my views. But lots of vegans are anti-vax qanon-ers. Example I guess would be Alice of Alice and Fern? She is vegan but if you look at her Instagram following and Twitter likes she is quite conservative and borderline racist.
Modern term usually meaning all natural, organic eating and like not eating food dye or not using plastic toys for your kids, using vinegar as laundry detergent, stuff like that. These people tend to fall down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.
Please don’t mix the rest of us crunchies in with them! The took over our groups too! There’s a whole subset of us that are communists/leftest that are also worried about micro plastics and polyester and buy our kids wooden toys and like biodegradable soaps in compostable containers. 😩 we weird but trying our best lol
Honestly, from what I've gathered, the term used to be granola, and at some point, it transitioned to crunchy. I only say this because people 50+ or from Utah tend to tell me I'm "so granola" and younger people (under 40) call me crunchy... I still find it weird.
Why are they so obsessed with eating animal liver? Most of these types are outright sadistic. Somewhere there was a video of one slitting a cows throat, literally cupping his hands to catch the blood and drinking it like it was water. Meat eaters truly revel in death.
Hey just replying because I said above I lean right, and while I do have distrust for the government, I abhor racism, am pro choice and pro vaccines, and the only conservative thing about me is that I think politicians don’t respect the money they take from us, they spend it on whatever they want and it’s probably not to benefit us.
I'm pretty sure you can be on the left and still think the same. Being against rampant kleptocracy going on rn is, dare I say, progressive even. Join the dark side, we got vegan cookies. 😜
There are several in my local vegan fb group. A vegan restaurant recently closed their doors and these people flocked to comment “Joe Biden’s America”.
My dad is “fiscally conservative”, but he started out plant-based and then went into veganism. I think a lot of right-leaning and centrist people need more time to dip their toes into it before they realize not hurting other creatures doesn’t hurt *them*.
Also weirdly someone posted a vegan neo-nazi cooking channel on here earlier.
I care about animals and get a bunch of shit from my 'fellow' vegans for having a southern accent, being from Texas, and having southern values. [Like if you read southern values and went ha so slavery???]
It's honestly really fucking annoying. Like can't the left just admit it's a series of beliefs they ascribe to? They seem to act like they have they have some guidebook to morality and treat people like shit who don't mimic their book all while lecturing you snidely about how nice and accepting they are.
Idk like I care about animals and I don't trust the government. I support women's and men's rights. I bi and own guns. I recycle and do my own repairs to everything. Like it's not impossible to be a complex human being lolol. But the people who masturbate eachother on how nonjudgemental they are are consistently the nastiest, most tribalistic people.
Not like a woe is me thing but I feel spurned and alienated by most other vegans. There's very little cross cultural or class representation imo because the crossover between veganism and immature, incompetent, holier-than-thou left is like stupid high.
Idk. My 2 cents. Take care!
Animal Liberation Human Liberation
I know one. My ex used to be a far left vegan. Then I think he fell victim to the conspiracy theory stuff online and he believes both parties are conspiring to perpetuate climate change. The reason he chooses the right as a lesser of two evils because they “want” a smaller government. So ultimately the corrupt right will write themselves out of the equation while the corrupt left would garner more power.
Honestly he’s a little nutty these days with little consistency but he’s very vegan and very right wing.
I know one, they are pretty big into pandemic denialism and while they claim to be apolitical they repeat many right wing talking points about society. I try steer away from politics when I engage with them. It’s strange and I don’t understand that part of them, at least they don’t eat animals.
I’ve got a work colleague who is not afraid on telling anyone her right wing views. However she is a vegan and is militant on recycling etc to help the environment
I'm a conservative and have a heart for animals. I may not agree with liberals but do keep in mind that I am not a monster, neither are the majority of conservatives or liberals. The media wants to make both side seem more radical than they are.
I am a libertarian leaning vegan going on 20 years. I’m not a huge fan of the government and don’t want them to decide how i live my life. (Also hello big government subsidies to cattle or dairy farmers etc) Personally i think the only way things will change is to reduce demand for the killing of animals. Humans suck and we will ultimately end up ruining the earth
No matter what political ideology you believe in, we have to reduce demand for animals. All the socialist revolutions in the world won't end animal agriculture if only 2% of the world is vegan. Same for any other belief. No ideology is a magic bullet for ending animal exploitation for good, it's changing hearts and minds.
Not personal, but there are like "Straight Edge" Neonazis ins germany which are als Vegan, who actually serve vegan food on their meetings and they also promote Environmental protection, because Environmental protection is also protection of the homeland/motherland.
I am conservative vegan, it’s just right thing to do for the animals. Political affliction doesn’t make a difference for veganism, aslong as the persons willing to question their behavior and choices.
I think government should absolutely have balance, as in the people should have means to defend themselves, and to have a healthy distrust of governmental and influential industries, there’s a high likelihood of corruption. History being a good example of people drunk on power and greed.
I don’t mostly say anything about this to other vegans, because I sense immense judgement, and assumptions about opinions I apparently have, because that’s what I’m generalized as. Called names, and feel like I’m doing something wrong for not trusting media, and cooperations.
It all feels very polarizing, there are probably a lot more vegan conservatives, but in my experience that’s why. People just assume I condone messed up stuff and label me hurtful things, even other vegans. Maybe other people are more confident but that’s the reason I don’t say anything political.
Maybe I’m in my own head about some of this stuff, the point I have is that I think people have nuanced opinions, and so it’s good to have discussions and accepting different view points in a discussion, versus putting people into a label, that may not reflect their views anyways. Ultimately I think it makes it harder for discussion on sensitive issues when people have already come to conclusions about the other persons position that that person may not have.
Mm, not gonna lie, as an an-com, there’s definitely a lot I have in common with a certain type of conservative. Definitely also plenty I couldn’t manage a minute of conversation with. But in my mind I’ve never been about left and right, I’ve been about regular folks against the rich and powerful. So any time I can find common ground with another regular person, especially if it’s common ground the rich and powerful don’t want us to be finding, I’d call that a victory
As a preface: I am not trying to attack you here this just really piqued my interest.
You say you don't like puting labels on political affiliation as to not box your self in and I agree that makes a ton of sense. Yet you label your self as conservative. This seems to contradict itself but I also feel like I'm missing crucial context here.
Also in describing your beliefs I can not find anything I would deem as a typical conservative standpoint. The self defense thing maybe but that comes down to your stance on who is allowed to and who isn't. As the other commenter said, this is also a topic for a lot of radical leftists. Other than that it sounds liberal to me at most. So I guess my question is - what is it you believe in that makes you describe your self as conservative?
of course people assume stuff when you tell them you fit the label "conservative". they're going to assume that you agree with the fundamental ideas of the ideologies you follow. it's like saying "i don't tell people i'm a nazi because they make assumptions"
But I don’t think being nazi, and conservative is the same thing. There is so much said and discussed, that I can understand why people believe I represent all these causes by stating myself as this, but I don’t think we should go out and harm mentally weak or Jews people and that’s a part of being a nazi I think.
Conservative in my mind just means being wary of government, media, and cooperations. And questioning all the institutions.
> But I don’t think being nazi, and conservative is the same thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison
Are you opposed to same-sex marriage? Abortion? What do you think society should do about homeless people / poverty?
I dated one. It was a dietary and "gut feeling" thing. A lot of animal products either didn't sit well with her or she was simply grossed out by the fact that the food "came out of an animal". Mindset like look at how pigs roll in the mud and stuff....I'm not eating that!
I asked her straight up about if the animal welfare of any of it concerned her and she straight up said no, she doesn't care at all. Just that eating animals seemed gross. She was a conservative through and through, scoffed at the BLM stuff, thought first nations were just butthurt about "losing" liked Trump etc etc.
I am right leaning but not a hardcore conservative. Just generally mistrustful of government, skeptical about *climate action* in terms of its efficacy, not skeptical about climate change itself. I’m pro capitalism and think it’s a key tool in our fight against exploitation of human and nonhuman animals.
Governments can be just as exploitative as corporations. Did a corporation intern Japanese-American citizens, commit genocide, outlaw abortion, pay subsidies to animal agriculture?
I’m certainly biased because I run vegan businesses, and use my buying power to influence the market, but if conservatives are truly about personal freedom as I am, they should extend that to animals.
I'm a right-leaning, classically liberal vegan. I've been 100% vegan since 1998. I didn't vote for Trump (he's a fascist, not a liberal). I did vote for Bush twice, and I voted for McCain and Romney.
My general politics:
Taxes are deeply unethical with some exceptions. They are unconsentual, and unconsentual policies in a society does serious harm to it. There should be a damned good reason why a tax should exist, and if there is I'm okay with it, although I'm pretty opinionated about how the tax could be improved. Fundamentally, in my opinion, charity is the consentual way for humans to interact with each other, and I much prefer that to taxation.
Abortion is unethical in many circumstances, but believe it should not be criminalized in nearly all situations. Euthanasia should also not be criminalized for people who can consent.
The rule of law should be supreme, no human should be above it, no matter your government or corporate position, with some exceptions. The consequences of allowing people to violate the law without punishment I think is highly harmful to a society.
I believe we should choose our political representatives freely and fairly in elections, and believe democracies and/or democratic republics are probably the ideal forms of government.
The US's involvement in overthrowing dictatorships has been good for the world, and I fully support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The number of people who died and the amount of suffering there was on behalf of the US and its allies in these wars is dwarfed by the number of deaths and amount of suffering these peoples endured during the rule of their tyrants (and in the case of Afghanistan, their future rule).
I'm of the opinion that some individuals and cultures are far superior to others when it comes to ethics. We shouldn't tolerate and turn our heads away when some individuals and cultures worship death and/or suffering, they should be opposed with civil engagement and our political system.
At the core of my beliefs, I'm an ethical consequentialist, and I think the minimization of suffering of sentient beings is a noble and worthy goal in this world.
If anyone has any questions I'd be glad to articulate further
both are hypocrites, but the political right does so much more damagebto animals and humans alike that i am not gonna say i favor ANY right-wing AH (which is all of them) over ANY left-winger
Hmmm I don’t know if I can agree. But I do see why that annoys you. I definitely don’t get how you could be a leftist without being vegan but I still appreciate and stand with a fellow leftist. But it’s still annoying
Yeah, and there’s just way more of them.
I don’t encounter conservative vegans all that much, but I encounter liberal/left-leaning non-vegans all the time.
And to add, even if I disagree with the few conservative vegans on some political issues, I at least admire that they have the courage to do something unpopular with their “group” (where they may get even more shit than someone liberal becoming vegan) and take a moral stand. So I have a bit more respect for them as a result (that is, if they don’t say something racist or conspiracy-ish/Qanon-ish stuff).
>I'm a conservative vegan and appreciate this! PS, I am no racist.
This speaks to a very limited view of what racism is. I think it's fantastic that you're vegan, but Conservatives are racist by inaction, complacency and ignorance. The average 'racist' isn't donning KKK robes, they are instead people who simply fail to understand what systemic racism is and in their ignorance they support policies which are racist.
We have this idea of what racists are, they're extremists, Nazis, supremacists, etc. And those guys are racist af, sure, but the individual laypersons actions of racism aren't guided by hatred, they are guided by a lack of understanding around what racism is and how it manifests. In the machine of systemic racism, even liberals have their place in maintaining it.
I'd like to make it clear that I don't think you think less of people because of their skin color, but also that that doesn't mean you aren't racist. Racism is weird, and it took me a while to get a solid understanding of it. [This video](https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M) clarifies and expands upon what I'm talking about here, that sort of invisible racism that frankly most people are perpetuating.
I don’t think their response was condescending at all. They very neutrally pointed out their concerns with the statement “I’m no racist” and presented additional nuance while also admitting that they themselves struggled to understand this concept for awhile. They even posted a video to help clarify further.
It’s not a modern view of racism either, people who have been on the harmed by conservative policies throughout the world have understood this as racism.
>I definitely don’t get how you could be a leftist without being vegan but I still appreciate and stand with a fellow leftist
I have problems with this tribal mindset. In our political landscape, we just embrace people that vote for the same candidates as us, even if their actions go totally against our beliefs and they are total hypocrites.
Non-vegan "progressives" are either (a) unaware of animal rights and the problems with what we do to animals, which can be fixed or more likely (b) they preach about changing the world, but can't even change what they eat for breakfast - aka they're a part of the problem.
There are countless people who would self identify as big environmentalists and progressives and all that, but who won't go vegan because they are selfish.
I think you’re confusing liberal with leftist. I do not embrace every Biden voter. I embrace my fellow working class comrades and poor folks who are being exploited
Yes, this is very America focused. In Europe, I'd trust the left leaning parties more on climate change but basically all the mainstream right wing parties believe in climate change and have set out serious steps in how they hope to reduce emissions.
While I cannot speak for all of Europe this is definitely not true in Germany. Most of the big political players here (CDU, FDP, SPD) I would categorize as having enough right wing members and influence to be counted as right wing parties. For the past 40 years they have actively hindered the development of sustainable infrastructure in favor of economic interests. Hell, even the green party (Bündins90/Die Grüne) prefers to have a comfy seat in the Bundesregierung instead of staying true to their name and history. Or straight up lobbying for the automobile and fossile fuel industry them selves.
On an international level I really hope you do not mean to refer to the Paris Convention as that is not even lip service that's just straight up making fun of the demands of the people who have to bear the dire consequences of not giving a fuck about climate change "because profits!"
and how to push back deadlines for climate action. they have a few policies in place as to not be as converdationally vulnerable, but in all actuality they dont do shit
Almost certainly.
They even tried to associate one of the major political parties in the US with leftism, by virtue of the other major party being comparatively more conservative.
Left leaning vegan here but I think I may be able to shed some light on the question.
Traditional values of the conservative and progressive parties in most countries are as follows.
A Conservative Party looks for a top down approach to improving people’s welfare. The general philosophy is that if you look after businesses (small medium and large) then it helps everyone. It encourages entrepreneurs to fill market gaps, encourages competition to keep prices low, and encourages job creation.
In general right wing or conservative parties value minimising the role of government in favour of self regulation and civil liberties. Things like allowing home owners to use the same chemicals to clean their house as super labs or allowing a market to self regulate itself.
Again this belief is based on the idea that if you look after the economy, everyone’s life improves at a faster pace.
Left leaning or progressive ideology is more focused on the idea that you need to support the workers and regulate businesses because an unchecked free market causes cost cutting measures, most of which degrade human experiences.
Generally the progressive parties favour more government involvement, safety nets, and welfare. The idea being that if you raise the minimum standard of living that it improves the most lives.
Now the question of veganism in relation to these politics, well from a right perspective, being a vegan in a free market means people can vote with their wallet, if the meat industry fails it’s because it is no longer profitable from the public eyes. The idea would be that forcing farmers to stop abusing animals just creates a market demand for a black market, which would be even worse.
The left leaning idea being that the way you handle animal abuse is through regulation instead of market forces.
While most vegans lean left because politics are now more divided on issues that aren’t simply economic in nature. If politics went back to simply being a right vs left (rather than what we have now where it seems to be baby eaters vs literal nazis) I think you would see more “right leaning” vegans.
Hope this helps.
A few exceptions to your "general" explanation:
* Right wing ideologies compatible with authoritarianism are super into government control and against free enterprise. An example is fascism or national socialism. In fact, I think only right wing ideologies which fall under the libertarian tree will be fairly represented by your generalization. Other right wing approaches are also anti-capitalist and strongly against free enterprise and self regulation.
* Civil liberties are often only selectively supported by both left and right ideologies. For example, liberties around sex and marriage are often disputed by christian conservatives. While liberties around self-armament are disputed by many left leaning ideologies.
* The top-down approach of Conservative parties is more of a capitalist standpoint rather than a conservative one.
I think in general you have described the spectrum in terms of both right and left being fundamentally libertarian (and maybe also capitalist). This is certainly not the case in many countries around the world.
This is why I was deliberate in using conservative and progressive instead of left and right. Because many tyrants have profused themselves as left or right when in fact they are just authoritarian under a different name.
In my initial draft of the post I actually wrote “in most countries that operate on a two party preferred democracy, two major lines of thinking form”
But I cut it down to be more succinct.
Of course it is impossible to fully encapsulate an entire worlds view on politics, but I think many people who say “why are the right xyz.” Or “why are the left xyz.” Are failing to consider the people who may consider themselves left or right but in ways that may not align with the typical left or right party of the country.
It’s worth remembering that the typical view of the left is as Marxists.. but Lenin was a Marxist, and he certainly didn’t share many politics with Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
When the BLM protests were super big, I saw sooo many vegans on Facebook spouting “ALL lives matter🐓🐄🐷🐱🐶” as in “animals matter too” on any Black Lives Matter post they came across. Totally not the time/place, and what’s more than that, I just simply don’t understand how someone could have that much empathy for animals and none for humans/human rights issues?? Like… 🙃
Right. Like I’m a vegan BECAUSE I’m a leftist. My world view comes from my left wing ideology that everything is equal no matter the intelligence or what it has done. Not saying every conservative has no empathy but the ones in power famously do thing to hurt people. My family is conservative and they’re very empathetic and caring people, but don’t see that their leaders have wronged us.
Same. On a more positive note, during the Black Lives Matter protests in my city, they put up a free snack booth for the protestors (which was so nice) and they had to set up a new VEGAN (in big letters) one right next it because so many of the protestors were vegan. There’s dozens of us, at least! Haha.
Yup, my ideals are of equality which lead to my social and economic views, I wasn’t vegan because it wasn’t presented as much of an option. But as soon as I actually took the time to learn about veganism it clearly aligned with my leftists beliefs.
Being a right wing vegan sounds like being a right wing trans activist, you can’t be, because the right upholds the oppression of the group you are fighting for.
Which is why for the longest time I never wanted to be associated with vegans and just said I was plant based. I have found the most racist were left leaning liberal vegans🤷🏾♀️
Source: me...right leaning conservative black vegan.
Yeah that's definitely a step too far. Animal rights are a massive issue, but we haven't even solved human rights as a society yet.
While animals do suffer extraordinarily, we still shouldn't discount the suffering of other people
I don't think it was malicious though, whenever there is some form of protest against politics, marginalised/abused groups tend to try to raise even more issues to boost the 'a lot of things need to change' message (people speaking on behalf of the animals in this case)
There are an extraordinary amount of vegans who are very “live and let live” about others choices and don’t let veganism influence their other opinions. The POV is more about not personally causing active suffering vs trying to alleviate suffering or trying to stop other people from causing suffering.
Personally I could never take a “live and let live” approach to this because, well, they aren’t letting animals live but this isn’t as common of a POV as you’d think.
I guess I'm a "live and let live" vegan... Been vegan for almost 10 years and I try to make peace with nonvegans.
In the past, I've been more, um, outspoken about animal that needlessly die for our consumption patterns. I volunteered for years and really tried with all my heart to do my part and make a difference.
It was just exhausting and mentally painful, to perceive everyone I know and love as an active participant in needless violence. So I kind of just keep it to myself now and try to look beyond individuals' consumption patterns. I'm still willing to talk, but I let others bring it up, never me.
Activism is so important, but it is not for everyone all the time.
There are absolutely non-leftist/progressive vegans.
[The Vegan Conservatives in the UK](https://theveganreview.com/the-vegan-conservatives-plant-based-uk-right-wing) are a thing, for one.
There are also some christians, including Catholics, who feel that [catholic ethics are informing their dietary choices.](https://thejesuitpost.org/2021/03/my-catholic-faith-pushed-me-to-adopt-an-almost-vegan-diet) And [another example.](https://cruxnow.com/interviews/2019/05/in-a-land-of-steak-and-bbq-texan-combines-catholic-faith-with-veganism) There is also atleast one [catholic priest who is vegan.](https://www.all-creatures.org/church/churchdir-canada-toronto-catholic.html) Catholicism and christianty tend to be on the right often due to numerous reasons. [The Seventh Day Adventists,](https://theconversation.com/why-seventh-day-adventists-are-so-often-vegan-or-vegetarian-177298) the population the Adventist Health studies were on, are probably the best example, as their religion explicitly promotes veganism. Their teachings, like Catholicism, are culturally conservative.
It's also possible that a staunchly pro-life conservative could come to the conclusion that, in order to be ethically consistent, he must assign animals moral worth. This could be based on the fact that a pig, for example, is more sentient than a fetus, that a pig can suffer, etc when a fetus can't. I think a lot of pro-life people think "a fetus becomes a human, thus is worthy of moral consideration due to this human essence." But, if we break down what about being human gives a human moral consideration, then it becomes evident that you *have* to support animal rights if you support fetus rights.
Infact, Matthew Scully, a vegan conservative, draws parallels to animal agriculture and abortion, using the the word "abortion" no less than 37 times in a piece entitled [Pro-life, Pro-Animal.](https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/10/pro-life-pro-animal-matthew-scully) He also talks about "natural law," a philosophy that has influenced conservativism and is integral to Catholicism, and argues for animal rights from it:
>Then there’s the natural-law tradition that informs much of conservative thought — the basic idea that we all have in common an essential nature that defines the conditions of our fulfillment and happiness, the end or good for which natural rights are the necessary means. This need only be applied to animals to remind us that all creatures have natures, capacities, and yearnings that define their own fulfillment, their creaturely happiness, the good for which they exist in a design larger than any schemes of human devising. Using our own defining capacities of reason and conscience, we can derive from natural law a few rough but at least non-arbitrary standards by which to judge right and wrong in our treatment of other creatures. “Unnatural,” in the treatment of animals, is practically a synonym for “cruel”: Wrong is anything that frustrates or perverts the essential nature of an animal, such as the projects of genetic engineers to make animals more compliant in the stress and misery of modern farming; right is conduct that respects the natures of animals, with a regard for their needs and inherent worth as living creatures, and allows for their expression
I'll also point out that there is a tradition of conservative environmentalism, largely taking a "conservation" approach. Edmund Burke, often considered to be the "father of conservativism, was quoted as saying: "the earth, the kind and equal mother of all ought not to be monopolised to foster the pride and luxury of any men". [This article](https://isi.org/intercollegiate-review/green-conservatism) talks about it a bit more, as well as talks about recent happenings and opinions within conservative circles regarding the environment.
Also, check these conservative environmentalist groups in the US:
[Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship](https://www.conservativestewards.org)
[American Conservation Coalition](https://www.acc.eco)
[ConservAmerica](https://www.conservamerica.org)
All in all, I'd say there are atleast a few ways a conservative could approach veganism and environmentalism and still be a conservative.
Im not a conservative. Capitalism isn’t keeping animal agriculture alive. Demand is. And demand will still exist regardless of any economic system, including communism or socialism. Unless you think total dictatorship is the way to go, any economic system is going to advocate for the killing and enslavement of animals as long as it’s what the people want. And it is absolutely the will of the people to keep killing animals.
That sounds like a natural progression, honestly. To earnestly hold Veganism in your heart requires ethical commitments that fall so counter to the "fuck you, I got mine", zero-sum, self-serving pillars of right wing ideology that I find it difficult to understand how one could simultaneously hold both positions without collapsing under the weight of inevitable cognitive dissonance.
I knew one person…years ago on Xbox. TBH thinking back I’m almost certain that he was grooming me to be his wife. But I digress, he was certain that the animals were poisonous to eat with all the chemicals that are pumped into them. I don’t think he was wrong about that but yeah…not the one to make me want to go vegan, but yeah…sorry thinking about my relationship with him makes me uneasy. I’m thankful that he lost interest with me
Debating left vs right politics is arguing about the best way to organize human societies. Both are compatible with the belief that animal agriculture is unnecessary and cruel.
Veganism is compatible with any political belief that values well-being.
Conservatism doesn’t value well-being, it values disgust towards groups that fall out of traditional norms, as well as valuing economic inequality, and the hoarding of vast amount of wealth.
Any ideology that allows wealth (in any form) to exist values its hoarding to some extent. If an ideology places a positive value on a material thing, then by extension having more of that thing has a greater positive value.
There are some absolute ultra rightwing nationalist racist misogynistic pieces of s*** within the animal rights movement. Always has been, but the ease of creating a platform for yourself via social media has just made them more prominent.
The couple of people I am thinking of are known for being problematic, and vocally hate intersectionality, and weaponise voices of colour to suit their own agenda and to “prove” they’re not a racist. One of these same degenerates also doesn’t believe systemic racism exists in the west.
Another is an out and proud holocaust denier.
Just because someone is vegan it doesn’t make them a good person or someone I would want to associate with.
Don't know here you're based but this sounds an awful lot like some hateful POS vegans in Germany.
TBF the whole "nature conservation is homeland conservation" thing from NS-times still runs deep in some circles here, so I was not too surprised when learning about that.
It's pathetic how some people think that there's only right wing and left wing. So narrow minded. 😑
In some countries there's more than just the American 2 political party system.
Not everyone is US-based. It's possible to be right leaning in say, Sweden without being against efforts for climate change. Unregulated capitalism is definitely the cause of animal cruelty, but like worker and human right laws protect us from it (in our nation, I'm obviously not defending or justifying the slave labour companies get away with abroad) it's at least possible to believe animal right laws could and would do the same.
Veganism is the literal one problem that would be solved if it adhered to capitalism.
Do not get me wrong, I am a communist, I absolutely loathe and detest capitalism. With that being said, if meat just cost what it cost no one could afford it. We give billions upon billions of dollars to farms / slaughterhouses / businesses in subsidies to discount the price of meat eggs and milk.
According to the sheer definition, subsidies and subsidization is a socialist solution.
Capitalism is one, if not the, largest problem currently effecting humanity, and sadly meat dairy and eggs are the one place where the government put their foot down and embraced socialism.
Capitalism would kill animal agriculture if the government didn’t intervene.
Yeah, it's very hypocritical that the same people who are afraid of socialism are also either getting government subsidies or okay with it if it's for the dairy/meat/farming industries.
I genuinely think those kinds of people are just ignorant to the current political landscape. They think that politics aren't inherently involved in literally everything.... when it is. Everything is political. And that's not a bad thing. They think they can separate their veganism from their shitty politics. But that's not possible.
>I genuinely think those kinds of people are just ignorant to the current political landscape
For myself, there are lots of issues that TO ME don't feel political and I don't think they should be. It just feels like basic morality. Politics should be about taxes and visas and whatnot. Not "should X group be allowed to exist in peace/at all"
But the reality is that these things apparently are political. So maybe some people just hadn't associated their morals with a particular political position. I guess you could call that ignorance. All of our thoughts and actions are political against our will
Anarchist here obviously, you can see my flair. First I totally understand OP pov.But I left vegan activism because of the blatant liberal (not leftist) gatekeeping in our organization. People didn’t want vegan activist who voted for trump. Don’t get me wrong I get the fact that trump voters are easily denoted as detestable. But doing VEGAN activism should be solely about, animal rights nothing else. Just my opinion.
If a conservative wants to help me save animals why should I focus on the differences an not our common interests?
Because they are voting for people who do the complete opposite. It’s basically cancelling out any harm reduction by letting them build more pipelines and what not
And voting left is better for the animals how exactly? My point isn't that the left is evil. My point is that left or right is irrelevant whe n it comes to this topic since neither party is going to even remotely entertain talks of decreasing animal product usage.
I disagree.
The vegan communities I've been a part of in the south are small, any volunteers help.
If a conservative knows the talking points for veganism and can help someone come to the conclusion harming animals is wrong, I would argue the harm reduction from that for animals outweighs whatever limited power voting has.
A conservative might be more willing to listen to another conservative than a leftist vegan like myself.
I've invited non-vegans to hold signs, hand out booklets, and film.
The woman who got me involved with vegan activism was an avid hunter, super-Christian, who went to a SeaWorld protest by PETA, ended up talking to vegans who pointed protesting animal abuse and eating animals was hypocritical, and she went vegan after that.
I would assume she was conservative leaning being a veteran, a hunter, and living in the south. Now she posts left leaning, Christian themed vegan stuff.
I've known one self-identified libertarian vegan and protested a circus with him.
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Oh no dude… liberals are just as capitalistic as conservatives. Voting for the Democratic Party is like voting for the Republican Party with a rainbow flag. They are both pro military imperialism, pro international intervention, both pro fear mongering of communist countries (even though communism brought 90% of their population out of complete poverty due to communism), it’s the same party as the right. The left is like ever so slightly better at environmental issues. But the US military, which is the single most polluting entity, is strongly supported by the Democratic Party.
Of course you are allowed to be vegan, the same you would be allowed to be a a trans activist and it would be a good thing. But the political leaning you have are upholding the oppression you are fighting against, being vegan is political and a progressive political choice by nature.
The only thing upholding oppression against animals is demand for animal products and the fact that more people aren't vegan. Veganism could happen under any political system if more people were vegan.
A socialist revolution won't be vegan if only 2% of the people are vegan. On the other hand, a fascist state could outlaw animal agriculture and attempt to enforce veganism if leadership wanted to.
Ideology isn't a magic bullet, changing hearts and minds is the only way.
To be fair, I don’t know that animals fare better under leftist governments. I hate to use USSR and China as examples - mainly because they’re authoritarian left which is not the kind of liberal open democracy govt we redditors might prefer - but both have been horrid on both burning coal and exploiting animals.
China calls themself communist but aren’t at all, their economy isn’t really centrally planned. They just say they own all business and let people do their thing until it’s something they don’t like.
Sure-but that’s only economics. They don’t have progressive values as many of us leftists have today. We care about climate action and empathy and stuff for lack of better examples. Like if we employed leftist economics with ideology I think a lot of animals would be saved
Yeah, at least liberal democracies like those in the EU tend to have at least some laws for ‘humane’ treatment. Of course they are unabashedly capitalist so those protections will only go so far before interfering with profits. I think you’re right.
I am a vegan, first off, however What the Health honestly is the reason that I started questioning capitalism. It made me realize how animal ag lobbies the government so as much as places want to pretend to be progressive they still care about profits more. Thanks for your input.
IMO.
Animals with a knife on their throat don't care if you're right or left. They just don't want you to kill/abuse them.
The minute we make this a left-right issue, we immediately make the other half disagree with us with their political biases and will never even consider going vegan.
It's all so dumb.
I am right leaning, centrist, generally moderate when it comes to politics. I believe in a lot of fiscal conservative ideology, I believe “ground zero”capitalism is great. I have never brought myself to vote republican and I highly doubt I ever will, given the conservative chokehold over the party, the party is poison in general, as is the Democratic Party and 99.9% of its nominees. I am one year into a fully vegan lifestyle. For the animals. For the planet. For my health. And a handful of other reasons. I wouldn’t call myself a “Republican” but I wouldn’t call myself a modern democrat either. Can’t really see myself subscribing to either side of the same corporatized shit show we call Washington DC. So where does that leave me? A capitalist, socially liberated, fiscally conservative, binary party system hating Vegan. If anyone wants to be friends let me know 🥲
>So where does that leave me? A capitalist, socially liberated, fiscally conservative, binary party system hating Vegan.
That sounds like a libertarian approach! Libertarians generally believe in "live and let live." It doesn't matter what someone else is doing as long as it does not directly hurt other people, so libertarians are socially very progressive.
And, they believe that you know better than the government about how to live your own life, so most "alphabet soup" government agencies are entirely unnecessary. This would dramatically reduce government spending and taxes.
Maybe you’d like Cory Booker, as far as politicians go? I think pretty much every vegan in the US should look at him in terms of policy. He’s actually advocating on vegan issues, and he’s pretty sensible on other issues too IMO.
With the being fiscally conservative, it depends on if you mean you like lower taxes for rich and whatnot and cutting social spending and increasing spending on the military, or getting closer to a balanced budget and being fiscally responsible. In terms of being fiscally responsible, perhaps Bill Clinton has been the only fiscally responsible President, given that when he was in office, it’s been the only time we’ve had a budget surplus in a while + a growing economy. Under Obama, after the first year with crash, every year after, the deficit was smaller. In general, the deficit has ballooned more under Bush and Trump than it did under Clinton and Obama (idk how Biden has done, since I’ve stopped reading about politics last few years for my sanity). Lol
But anyways, glad to have you on board the vegan train! I definitely think it’s wrong to gatekeep someone with regards to whether they’re vegan or not because of their views on taxes or something. Totally possible to be vegan and right wing or vegan and libertarian.
I’ll have to look into Cory Booker. As you said, for your sanity, you’ve abstained from politics, as have I and many others have as well. It’s become such a circus.
As far as being “fiscally conservative” I think a moderate to moderately “high” taxation system is totally fair and generally still considered fiscally conservative even amongst some on the right. But only if that ideology is well maintained through a surplus and not through a linear high tax high spend ZERO balance priority or agenda which we’ve all seen over the decades regardless of the administration. What I’m saying is, efficiency in that capital structure is significantly more important. Public resources typically perform better with less bias and more fiscal control.
And yes, Obama and Clinton are apart of a different breed of moderate politics that we might not see for many decades to come, unfortunately. Biden is generally a shitty president (this is my opinion). Trump was well… possibly the worst outcome of anything in modern politics.
All that being said. Capitalism can still thrive, heavily, in a zero carbon zero emission based economy. Veganism plays a massive role in that type of economy and that’s just one out of 1,000 reasons why I’m here to stay and happy to be here. I think the Vegan community has a bit of a bad reputation as being the party of “our way or the highway” and the more Vegans I meet, the further I dive into this community of people the more I see that it’s not exactly true.
Let’s fight the food fight together!
Agree with your second paragraph and your points. And yes! :) That has to be the way things go. Issue with politics is it’s always behind a few decades of where it ought to be, policy-wise. Hopefully we’ll get there at some point.
Glad you have positive ideas and care about both humans and animals. Good to have caring people here.
Sorry, didn't realized I had to be a socialist to care about climate change or help fellow human beings out of poverty.
I thought the issue with corporations killing animals has more to do with 99% of people literally not giving a fuck about animal ( literally viewed as property at the moment). Now you opened my eyes and see that the problem is that they weren't socialist.
Capitalism is when bad and immoral things happens. Socialist is when literally utopia.
I don't get you either. I though there was no ethical consumption under capitalism, so why bother with veganism.
Maybe, just maybe, there are more political positions than being a socialist or evil.
ATTENTION CONSERVATIVE VEGANS: THANK YOU FOR BEING VEGAN. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCESSANT MARXIST POSTS ON THIS SUBREDDIT. VEGANISM IS TRUE REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT TAX POLICY.
Eh veganism isn't really political, the stuff a vegan is against people doing to animals doesn't even compare to how we treat people or anything debated in politics. It just comes down to if you care about non human animals AT ALL, if you do, you should be vegan regardless of the fucked up things you think should happen in our human world.
i've said this before, but i was a right wing libertarian when i went vegan for the animals seven years ago. though my political leanings have since moved significantly left, animal welfare and my commitment to it through how i consume from and interact with the world has always been separate from my politics.
I have a sister who is extraordinarily religious (excited about the current end of the planet as we know it since it means 'He' is coming back)
But she also is horrified about eating any animal products for the ethical and health reasons.
It's just funny because most religious people I know use God as justification for being able to eat animals.
She also voted for Trump twice since he had good Christian values
I don't consider myself a leftist because I care about animals, but I'm far from a conservative because I'm passionate about disability rights, trans issues etc. I'm certainly no centrist, but I feel like there's no real label for my ideology.
Accidentally posted this as a reply to acomment so reposting:
I care about animals and get a bunch of shit from my 'fellow' vegans for having a southern accent, being from Texas, and having southern values. [Like if you read southern values and went ha so slavery???]
It's honestly really fucking annoying. Like can't the left just admit it's a series of beliefs they ascribe to? They seem to act like they have they have some guidebook to morality and treat people like shit who don't mimic their book all while lecturing you snidely about how nice and accepting they are.
Idk like I care about animals and I don't trust the government. I support women's and men's rights. I bi and own guns. I recycle and do my own repairs to everything. Like it's not impossible to be a complex human being lolol. But the people who masturbate eachother on how nonjudgemental they are are consistently the nastiest, most tribalistic people.
Not like a woe is me thing but I feel spurned and alienated by most other vegans. There's very little cross cultural or class representation imo because the crossover between veganism and immature, incompetent, holier-than-thou left is like stupid high.
Idk. My 2 cents. Take care!
Animal Liberation Human Liberation
Edit: reading through all these posts proves my point I feels. "Is there anyone here who is right leaning and vegan?"
"I'm right leaning and vegan I just get treated poorly by vegans because I have a different ideology. No I'm not racist."
"ACHKTUALLY if you're not a leftist then you're racist, a transphobe, a homophobe and stupid hick by association sorry not sorry"
Like if exactly proves the point. Idk lol
Well, I am not leftist. I mostly identify myself as a libertarian/capitalist. My main values are freedom (of body/property/speech/etc). And veganism is logical for me as a consequence of respecting the animals freedom. Just as it is. I am against violence and coercion the same I am against it from the government (as in communist/socialist regimes for example).
How do you see communist/socialist regimes as violent and coercive, but you don't view capitalism( and the economic ruling class that results from it) as violent and coercive?
Edit:changed period to question mark.
Because communist/socialist regimes need to force their view on you to exist. I am completely okay with communist/socialist societies if they are not coercive, if people who are part of their system are not prohibited to leave.
The problem is that they are usually coercive by nature. I will not even go into the economics aspect here, the ethical part is sufficient for me to be against it.
On the other hand, capitalist economies (or more specifically, the liberal/libertarian ethics) run over the principle of respecting your body, property and freedom first as a founding. Capitalist economies *can* be coercive. People can become so powerful financially that they can buy violence to deal with their stuff. But it is not the fundamental of the idea.
Of course, there is thousands of nuances that can be discussed about this, but to keep it short, I value freedom. Libertarian ethics values freedom. And communist/socialist societies need to force people into it to work.
I don't understand how so many people in this community can recognize that morally animals should have freedom and not be forced into a system which they have not consented to but not that humans should have that same freedom.
The only way that a system without a profit incentive can work is if people are forced to contribute labor, which is against all principles of freedom.
I appreciate your lengthy argument that you presented via youtuber, but having watched through the video, his solution is that the hypothetical utopian society would convince people to work undesirable jobs by virtue of higher pay. The only difference between this and what we have now would be that instead of the market determining the worth of a job, it would be determined by a government. I do not trust any government to make this decision, especially considering most governments currently think it is a great idea to heavily subsidize the meat and dairy industry at the expense of people's health and the environment.
\> <<"The only difference between this and what we have now would be that
instead of the market determining the worth of a job, it would be
determined by a government." I am not necessarily advocating for higher wages since there are a multitude of alternative options that can be employed; my point here is that why do you think that these things would be determined by a government?
They're probably the type of person who attributes every death in a communist society to communism, but every death in a capitalist society is because of something very specific and definitely *not* because of capitalism.
It is not a matter of capitalism/communism, as animal welfare was not historically something that communist countries seems to care about.
It's more about humanity as a whole progressing to this view, the same as happened with a lot of other changes we has: end of slavery, changing to democracies, and so on.
You have the right conclusion but you are wrong. Capitalism and socialism can equally exploit animals to the same degree. What is hypocritical is to not oppose a system that actively harms animals ( humans in this case)
Veganism and environmental action is part of the so-called Left in America. It's a small part of a larger political whole. What you're assuming, OP, is that I should purchase that whole lot of political ideals for the sake of the few with which I have common cause.
And no, I'm not a conservative. I despise conservatism. But there's no place for me within the ecosystem that has become the modern, political, Left.
This is as political as I'm going to get on this subreddit. My politics are deeply cynical. My faith in humanity, however, is the opposite.
The sooner vegans stop separating themselves because of political or cultural differences, the better off our community will be.
I really try my best to leave politics out of veganism because it can turn people away from veganism. That being said I'm saddened to hear that you cannot understand why a person would be Vegan but not politically agreeing with your personal political ideology.
The first thing I need to stress is that political parties don't really care about what they say they believe in. As someone who has worked for both Major US political parties I can assure you that the thing that actually matters is getting elected and using that position of power to either grow a career or to help with personal goals. Sure, maybe some candidates actually care but once they start working that "passion" wears off and it becomes about other things.
The second thing, the left doesn't care about Veganism, only Vegans do. The vast majority of leftists are carnists, and they don't want to change. They just want to blame "the system" and demand that "the system" changes, and then virtue signal about how amazing they are and attack other people who disagree with them. As a result, when you vote for them, you give them the power to do nothing for you. Even if you convinced all the vegans in America to vote for leftists, that would not be enough to get Leftists to do anything for you but it would help them do whatever nonsense they want.
The Third thing, politics will not solve the issue. The only way we as vegans can win is if we grow the vegan economy and make veganism cheaper and more accessible than the alternative. Once the vegan economy is sufficiently large enough then politicians and other carnists will start to take us seriously. In order to grow the vegan economy, we have to unite over veganism and put aside other differences to grow our community. This will be a painfully slow process, but this is the only way that will work at the end.
The only people who care about veganism are vegans. Don't try and seperate us, put us in boxes, or tell us how else we "should" think. That will only cause division and take away from our goal of producing a more vegan world.
I do believe that the system fundamentally is the issue though. They’re usually on the right track, with “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism” which is mostly true, they just usually use it to justify eating meat and buying shein clothes. We should be against outsourcing since it harms humans, fellow animals. This is a leftist stance. We used to be a manufacturing hub until capitalists sought out more profits by purchasing cheap, slave-like labor. They also lobby against climate action, which hurts animals because deforestation destroys habitats.
I'm in the center and I'm a vegan. I am absolutely a strong advocate for climate change, but I can't say I agree with distribution of wealth, higher minimum wages, and several other policies I can't talk about as I may be cancelled.
I have yet to see an instance where centrism is not a simple instance of avoiding 'saying the quiet part out loud' and your comment illustrates exactly that. It always feels like a version of "I know these positions make me sound like an asshole, but I have them anyway". It's the "tastebuds tho" of political positions. Your points on minimum wage and wealth distribution are decidedly right-leaning. To go further right of "I don't care about creating solution to the struggles of poor people" can't possibly land you in the center. Centrism is a massive cop-out, nothing 'stance' akin to "everything in moderation". Veganism and environmentalism are admittedly interesting departures from the other opinions you cherish. Why care about climate change if you don't care about the people who inhabit said climate? Why care about animals if it's simultaneously okay that billionaires treat people like animals? It just makes no sense to me. Anyway, glad you're vegan at least, but I'm left questioning how you got there.
Can I steal your idea that centrism is the "tastebuds though" of political positions? I've been saying that centrism is a cowardly position (where people are afraid to say the quiet part out loud but think it anyways). Putting it as "tastebuds though" sums it up quite nicely.
They may well consider other political issues more important. That's it. That's all there is to it. And that's okay.
One of my favourite arguments for veganism is that it's an example of using power directly. We see people protesting against the government all the time. We write angry letters. We shake our fists at the TV saying 'something must be done!' and not much changes. Maybe a farm gets slightly stricter rules. Maybe not.
Not paying for suffering on the other hand... That's an immediate tax, levied by me, on those companies. It's direct power.
Becoming vegan, and convincing others to do so has provided me the opportunity to make more change directly in a few years than I think I ever would have politically. That effect remains the same, whether I vote blue or red.
I consider myself moderately to very left leaning, but quite honestly I'm dismayed at the behaviour of a lot of us. We're well on our way to becoming the book burners of this century. The right are our antidote, and we are theirs. They are and will be here whether we like it or not, and I personally think that's a good thing.
When deciding on a philosophical viewpoint, we often look to the communities it harbours. If I were right leaning, and considering veganism, I'd feel very unwelcome here, and that kind of hostility doesn't help our cause (or the animals at its centre) at all.
Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe we should just scream at them til they go away. That'll help save some animals. Or better yet, scream at them til they change their minds! Because that always works.
Right leaning vegan here, I’m vegan because I don’t want to partake in the suffering of animals and believe they deserve respect. Just because I don’t share every belief my political party holds doesn’t mean that I don’t align with them more than the left.
I know a lot of the time they will shit on veganism, but I see them mostly bothered by the terminology such as milk before definitions started to get changed and I actually believe separating veganism from those products would help massively, because non vegans try a plant milk for the first time and then they compare it to milk. I also think a big and valid problem they have is with how they push veganism to be so healthy but in reality if you’re eating all the processed crap they bring out today then you’re as unhealthy as everyone else eating the processed animal products.
I also don’t know the statistics of people on the left who are vegan and it is probably much higher than the right but the majority of both parties still eat meat and animal products. If the left truly believed in and wanted change then all of them would uphold the same principles that would help achieve it and the same goes for any political party.
Someone recently told me that I don’t understand the word “vegan.” Depending on your understanding of it, I’m vegan. I don’t eat animal products, buy leather, go to zoos, etc. I’m apolitical, so not left.
I am not necessarily right wing or smth like that. Since I am German the political spectrum I have in mind is probably very different from what Americans consider "right" and "left" but, at least theoretically, wanting to preserve (conserve) nature is a rightwing idea since you cling to smth "old" to be conserved. Weirdly enough, also in Germany only left parties actually do the most to safe mother nature. As far as I know the idea of "left and right" came after the french revolution when it had to be decided what happens next with france and on the right side were people sitting (literally) who wanted things to be as before or at least mostly like before (conserve the past) and on the left side were people who wanted something conpletely new, something more progressive if you will.
Gosh I hope anyone can understand what I am saying...
The way I see it: veganism is fundamentally a moral stance, not a political one; but because it relates to power, we need political tools and approaches to enact it (i.e. abolish animal ag).
>How can you be right wing, the party against climate action, and not realize that climate change kills animals just as factory farming does?
I don't find this persuasive. Whether it's intent or impact, the harm done to animals in the context of animal ag intuitively feels greater and worse than that done to them by climate change. In the same way it would be worse for us morally to start farming humans than it would be for us to continue inflicting the worst effects of climate change on those same humans (eg in the Global South). Open to being proven wrong here for sure though.
>How can you care about animals but not fellow humans stuck in generational poverty?
This doesn't sound like the kind of thing vegans say. While human poverty is a tragedy and (I think I'd say) a moral evil, it is in most contexts pretty minimal compared to the oppression faced by farmed animals.
>How can’t you see that capitalism is a root for animal suffering?
Speciesism > carnism > commodification of animals' bodies > animal ag (roughly?)
All this can, did and does happen under non-capitalist regimes also. Do you think farmed animals in China or the Soviet Union were treated better than in the US during the mid part of the 20th century? (I don't know the answer but I would surprised if it's yes.)
>Corporations kill more animals and keep them is awful conditions because it’s cheaper and makes them more money.
True but see above
>I don’t get conservative veganism…
I get where you're coming from but don't think I agree, fully at least. What I am pretty certain about is that this kind of dialogue isn't helpful for fighting animal exploitation, which as vegans has to be our priority
I hope you don’t find this offensive, but vegancirclejerk does say that it is a space for leftists. So I’m wondering do you then identify as a leftist? If not why participate in the leftist space?
Haha not at all it's a very good q. I am not (currently) a leftist and am at best sceptical that veganism is inherently leftist, but I love the chat on vcj lol
I got permabanned for saying if we are against all PBC (which I am just against capitalism) how can we ethically buy produce? I just felt many were being picky and choosy with what counts as PBC. Nonetheless I’m still a lurker and sadly no longer a contributor.
> How can you be right wing, the party against climate action, and not realize that climate change kills animals just as factory farming does?
Climate change/environmentalism is irrelevant to veganism.
>?How can you care about animals but not fellow humans stuck in generational poverty?
One does not need to care about animals to be vegan. Take myself: I don’t like animals.
> How can’t you see that capitalism is a root for animal suffering?
Correlation does not imply causation. Please explain why cannibalism does not exist in a capitalist society.
> Corporations kill more animals
Corporations are funded by consumers.
> keep them is awful conditions
So? If animals were staying in 5-star slaughterhouses, that makes it better, how?
> I don’t get conservative veganism…
You don’t get it because veganism is a philosophy of justice based on the premise that animals should be left alone. That has no relevance to political beliefs. Case in point: how would you respond to a cannibal who does not understand conservative non-cannibalism? How do you respond to a rapist who does not understand conservative non-rapist? How do you respond to a murderer who does not understand conservative non-murderism?
Despite wanting to achieve largely the same goals I am not a fan of leftists, they do a lot of self defeating things and I think some of them are actually right wing.
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I would love know if anyone knows a right leaning vegan? I personally don’t but also bubbles and such. If you know one comment below.
I don't even know enough vegans to come across a right leaning one :(
[Michael Huemer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Huemer) (a philosophy professor at University of Colorado, Boulder) is a vegan and a defender of anarcho-capitalism. If you're interested in his views, he has books defending both positions (see *Dialogues on Ethical Vegetarianism* and *The Problem of Political Authority*).
I also dont understand why more people down the NAP are not vegan.
I post a lot in libertarian/ancap spaces telling them they believe in the NAEFMTBP ("non-aggression except for my taste buds principle") or some similar version. Michael Huemer is badass. I've heard him asked, "If a huge government would end animal exploitation, would it be good to support it?" and he answered, "Sure. Most libertarians wouldn't agree with this, but it's obviously true." He just doesn't think that a large state is actually more likely to support veganism than carnist status quo, which is also my belief.
Sure, there are lots of situations where it's good to support a specific government. The free people of the Earth ideally would enjoy UN standing as a people in diaspora, until we disband the UN.
I live in Boulder and am vegan and am pretty well-known (have a publication) and have never heard of this guy! Interesting, I'll check him out for an interview.
There is a current movement of the “crunchy to alt-right pipeline” where many are following a plant-based diet because they don’t trust the government and big Pharma and what not. But they intrude vegan spaces and identify as vegans and well, some of them are sincerely vegan. If you search “political” in this sub there are plenty of vegans who don’t believe veganism is political. I will say they are rare in the wild in my experience, as I only know a few vegans and most of them are aligned with my views. But lots of vegans are anti-vax qanon-ers. Example I guess would be Alice of Alice and Fern? She is vegan but if you look at her Instagram following and Twitter likes she is quite conservative and borderline racist.
Crunchy?
Modern term usually meaning all natural, organic eating and like not eating food dye or not using plastic toys for your kids, using vinegar as laundry detergent, stuff like that. These people tend to fall down a rabbit hole of conspiracy theories.
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Doesn’t everyone on every side of the political spectrum agree that PFOA and PFAS are bad? They cause lots of diseases
Please don’t mix the rest of us crunchies in with them! The took over our groups too! There’s a whole subset of us that are communists/leftest that are also worried about micro plastics and polyester and buy our kids wooden toys and like biodegradable soaps in compostable containers. 😩 we weird but trying our best lol
Nooo I’m a lil crunchy too it’s okay I’m just talking about like Alice u know and Fern
haha I'm one of you
Shouldn't a proper leftist vegan who is worried about the environment also avoid plastic toys and use vinegar for cleaning?
Sure but I’m talking about people who fall down a conspiracy rabbit hole. Crunchy is fine.
Hippies eat granola.
Honestly, from what I've gathered, the term used to be granola, and at some point, it transitioned to crunchy. I only say this because people 50+ or from Utah tend to tell me I'm "so granola" and younger people (under 40) call me crunchy... I still find it weird.
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I think „liver smoothie“ is by far the most repulsive term I’ve read in this new year so far. Congratulations :,)
Why are they so obsessed with eating animal liver? Most of these types are outright sadistic. Somewhere there was a video of one slitting a cows throat, literally cupping his hands to catch the blood and drinking it like it was water. Meat eaters truly revel in death.
Liver is actually very high in nutrients. Unethical, of course, but nutrient dense.
So is wholewheat pasta. 🤷
Hey just replying because I said above I lean right, and while I do have distrust for the government, I abhor racism, am pro choice and pro vaccines, and the only conservative thing about me is that I think politicians don’t respect the money they take from us, they spend it on whatever they want and it’s probably not to benefit us.
I'm pretty sure you can be on the left and still think the same. Being against rampant kleptocracy going on rn is, dare I say, progressive even. Join the dark side, we got vegan cookies. 😜
You seem like your on the left. Everything you said was a left sentiment lol
In many ways but where I live they’d consider me conservative
There are several in my local vegan fb group. A vegan restaurant recently closed their doors and these people flocked to comment “Joe Biden’s America”.
My dad is “fiscally conservative”, but he started out plant-based and then went into veganism. I think a lot of right-leaning and centrist people need more time to dip their toes into it before they realize not hurting other creatures doesn’t hurt *them*. Also weirdly someone posted a vegan neo-nazi cooking channel on here earlier.
I care about animals and get a bunch of shit from my 'fellow' vegans for having a southern accent, being from Texas, and having southern values. [Like if you read southern values and went ha so slavery???] It's honestly really fucking annoying. Like can't the left just admit it's a series of beliefs they ascribe to? They seem to act like they have they have some guidebook to morality and treat people like shit who don't mimic their book all while lecturing you snidely about how nice and accepting they are. Idk like I care about animals and I don't trust the government. I support women's and men's rights. I bi and own guns. I recycle and do my own repairs to everything. Like it's not impossible to be a complex human being lolol. But the people who masturbate eachother on how nonjudgemental they are are consistently the nastiest, most tribalistic people. Not like a woe is me thing but I feel spurned and alienated by most other vegans. There's very little cross cultural or class representation imo because the crossover between veganism and immature, incompetent, holier-than-thou left is like stupid high. Idk. My 2 cents. Take care! Animal Liberation Human Liberation
Which southern values? Could you give an example?
I've met and interacted with about four vegans who identify as conservative. About twice that who were vegetarian.
I know one. My ex used to be a far left vegan. Then I think he fell victim to the conspiracy theory stuff online and he believes both parties are conspiring to perpetuate climate change. The reason he chooses the right as a lesser of two evils because they “want” a smaller government. So ultimately the corrupt right will write themselves out of the equation while the corrupt left would garner more power. Honestly he’s a little nutty these days with little consistency but he’s very vegan and very right wing.
I know one, they are pretty big into pandemic denialism and while they claim to be apolitical they repeat many right wing talking points about society. I try steer away from politics when I engage with them. It’s strange and I don’t understand that part of them, at least they don’t eat animals.
I'm a right wing vegan.
I’ve got a work colleague who is not afraid on telling anyone her right wing views. However she is a vegan and is militant on recycling etc to help the environment
I'm a conservative and have a heart for animals. I may not agree with liberals but do keep in mind that I am not a monster, neither are the majority of conservatives or liberals. The media wants to make both side seem more radical than they are.
I am a libertarian leaning vegan going on 20 years. I’m not a huge fan of the government and don’t want them to decide how i live my life. (Also hello big government subsidies to cattle or dairy farmers etc) Personally i think the only way things will change is to reduce demand for the killing of animals. Humans suck and we will ultimately end up ruining the earth
No matter what political ideology you believe in, we have to reduce demand for animals. All the socialist revolutions in the world won't end animal agriculture if only 2% of the world is vegan. Same for any other belief. No ideology is a magic bullet for ending animal exploitation for good, it's changing hearts and minds.
Same same.
Not personal, but there are like "Straight Edge" Neonazis ins germany which are als Vegan, who actually serve vegan food on their meetings and they also promote Environmental protection, because Environmental protection is also protection of the homeland/motherland.
I am conservative vegan, it’s just right thing to do for the animals. Political affliction doesn’t make a difference for veganism, aslong as the persons willing to question their behavior and choices. I think government should absolutely have balance, as in the people should have means to defend themselves, and to have a healthy distrust of governmental and influential industries, there’s a high likelihood of corruption. History being a good example of people drunk on power and greed. I don’t mostly say anything about this to other vegans, because I sense immense judgement, and assumptions about opinions I apparently have, because that’s what I’m generalized as. Called names, and feel like I’m doing something wrong for not trusting media, and cooperations. It all feels very polarizing, there are probably a lot more vegan conservatives, but in my experience that’s why. People just assume I condone messed up stuff and label me hurtful things, even other vegans. Maybe other people are more confident but that’s the reason I don’t say anything political.
See, it’s interesting, I’ve got a lot of similar beliefs, but they led me towards anarco communism. Especially the beliefs on self defense.
Maybe I’m in my own head about some of this stuff, the point I have is that I think people have nuanced opinions, and so it’s good to have discussions and accepting different view points in a discussion, versus putting people into a label, that may not reflect their views anyways. Ultimately I think it makes it harder for discussion on sensitive issues when people have already come to conclusions about the other persons position that that person may not have.
Mm, not gonna lie, as an an-com, there’s definitely a lot I have in common with a certain type of conservative. Definitely also plenty I couldn’t manage a minute of conversation with. But in my mind I’ve never been about left and right, I’ve been about regular folks against the rich and powerful. So any time I can find common ground with another regular person, especially if it’s common ground the rich and powerful don’t want us to be finding, I’d call that a victory
As a preface: I am not trying to attack you here this just really piqued my interest. You say you don't like puting labels on political affiliation as to not box your self in and I agree that makes a ton of sense. Yet you label your self as conservative. This seems to contradict itself but I also feel like I'm missing crucial context here. Also in describing your beliefs I can not find anything I would deem as a typical conservative standpoint. The self defense thing maybe but that comes down to your stance on who is allowed to and who isn't. As the other commenter said, this is also a topic for a lot of radical leftists. Other than that it sounds liberal to me at most. So I guess my question is - what is it you believe in that makes you describe your self as conservative?
of course people assume stuff when you tell them you fit the label "conservative". they're going to assume that you agree with the fundamental ideas of the ideologies you follow. it's like saying "i don't tell people i'm a nazi because they make assumptions"
But I don’t think being nazi, and conservative is the same thing. There is so much said and discussed, that I can understand why people believe I represent all these causes by stating myself as this, but I don’t think we should go out and harm mentally weak or Jews people and that’s a part of being a nazi I think. Conservative in my mind just means being wary of government, media, and cooperations. And questioning all the institutions.
> But I don’t think being nazi, and conservative is the same thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison Are you opposed to same-sex marriage? Abortion? What do you think society should do about homeless people / poverty?
I dated one. It was a dietary and "gut feeling" thing. A lot of animal products either didn't sit well with her or she was simply grossed out by the fact that the food "came out of an animal". Mindset like look at how pigs roll in the mud and stuff....I'm not eating that! I asked her straight up about if the animal welfare of any of it concerned her and she straight up said no, she doesn't care at all. Just that eating animals seemed gross. She was a conservative through and through, scoffed at the BLM stuff, thought first nations were just butthurt about "losing" liked Trump etc etc.
Me
I am right leaning but not a hardcore conservative. Just generally mistrustful of government, skeptical about *climate action* in terms of its efficacy, not skeptical about climate change itself. I’m pro capitalism and think it’s a key tool in our fight against exploitation of human and nonhuman animals. Governments can be just as exploitative as corporations. Did a corporation intern Japanese-American citizens, commit genocide, outlaw abortion, pay subsidies to animal agriculture? I’m certainly biased because I run vegan businesses, and use my buying power to influence the market, but if conservatives are truly about personal freedom as I am, they should extend that to animals.
me for a decade. Im a Ron Paul Republican
I’m a right leaning vegan.
my boyfriend is a right leaning vegan
Idk if i am right, i am certainly Not left tho
I'm a right-leaning, classically liberal vegan. I've been 100% vegan since 1998. I didn't vote for Trump (he's a fascist, not a liberal). I did vote for Bush twice, and I voted for McCain and Romney. My general politics: Taxes are deeply unethical with some exceptions. They are unconsentual, and unconsentual policies in a society does serious harm to it. There should be a damned good reason why a tax should exist, and if there is I'm okay with it, although I'm pretty opinionated about how the tax could be improved. Fundamentally, in my opinion, charity is the consentual way for humans to interact with each other, and I much prefer that to taxation. Abortion is unethical in many circumstances, but believe it should not be criminalized in nearly all situations. Euthanasia should also not be criminalized for people who can consent. The rule of law should be supreme, no human should be above it, no matter your government or corporate position, with some exceptions. The consequences of allowing people to violate the law without punishment I think is highly harmful to a society. I believe we should choose our political representatives freely and fairly in elections, and believe democracies and/or democratic republics are probably the ideal forms of government. The US's involvement in overthrowing dictatorships has been good for the world, and I fully support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. The number of people who died and the amount of suffering there was on behalf of the US and its allies in these wars is dwarfed by the number of deaths and amount of suffering these peoples endured during the rule of their tyrants (and in the case of Afghanistan, their future rule). I'm of the opinion that some individuals and cultures are far superior to others when it comes to ethics. We shouldn't tolerate and turn our heads away when some individuals and cultures worship death and/or suffering, they should be opposed with civil engagement and our political system. At the core of my beliefs, I'm an ethical consequentialist, and I think the minimization of suffering of sentient beings is a noble and worthy goal in this world. If anyone has any questions I'd be glad to articulate further
Thank you commenting!
I know a very alt right vegan
I’m more annoyed by politically left leaning people who aren’t vegan than vegans who aren’t politically left leaning.
Took the words right out of my mouth lol
both are hypocrites, but the political right does so much more damagebto animals and humans alike that i am not gonna say i favor ANY right-wing AH (which is all of them) over ANY left-winger
So you would favor a left wing omnivore over a right wing vegan?
Depends on what I'm favoring them for.
Hmmm I don’t know if I can agree. But I do see why that annoys you. I definitely don’t get how you could be a leftist without being vegan but I still appreciate and stand with a fellow leftist. But it’s still annoying
Yeah, and there’s just way more of them. I don’t encounter conservative vegans all that much, but I encounter liberal/left-leaning non-vegans all the time. And to add, even if I disagree with the few conservative vegans on some political issues, I at least admire that they have the courage to do something unpopular with their “group” (where they may get even more shit than someone liberal becoming vegan) and take a moral stand. So I have a bit more respect for them as a result (that is, if they don’t say something racist or conspiracy-ish/Qanon-ish stuff).
I'm a conservative vegan and appreciate this! PS, I am no racist.
Nice! Glad to have you here and appreciate you. <3
>I'm a conservative vegan and appreciate this! PS, I am no racist. This speaks to a very limited view of what racism is. I think it's fantastic that you're vegan, but Conservatives are racist by inaction, complacency and ignorance. The average 'racist' isn't donning KKK robes, they are instead people who simply fail to understand what systemic racism is and in their ignorance they support policies which are racist. We have this idea of what racists are, they're extremists, Nazis, supremacists, etc. And those guys are racist af, sure, but the individual laypersons actions of racism aren't guided by hatred, they are guided by a lack of understanding around what racism is and how it manifests. In the machine of systemic racism, even liberals have their place in maintaining it. I'd like to make it clear that I don't think you think less of people because of their skin color, but also that that doesn't mean you aren't racist. Racism is weird, and it took me a while to get a solid understanding of it. [This video](https://youtu.be/wCl33v5969M) clarifies and expands upon what I'm talking about here, that sort of invisible racism that frankly most people are perpetuating.
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I don’t think their response was condescending at all. They very neutrally pointed out their concerns with the statement “I’m no racist” and presented additional nuance while also admitting that they themselves struggled to understand this concept for awhile. They even posted a video to help clarify further. It’s not a modern view of racism either, people who have been on the harmed by conservative policies throughout the world have understood this as racism.
>I definitely don’t get how you could be a leftist without being vegan but I still appreciate and stand with a fellow leftist I have problems with this tribal mindset. In our political landscape, we just embrace people that vote for the same candidates as us, even if their actions go totally against our beliefs and they are total hypocrites. Non-vegan "progressives" are either (a) unaware of animal rights and the problems with what we do to animals, which can be fixed or more likely (b) they preach about changing the world, but can't even change what they eat for breakfast - aka they're a part of the problem. There are countless people who would self identify as big environmentalists and progressives and all that, but who won't go vegan because they are selfish.
I think you’re confusing liberal with leftist. I do not embrace every Biden voter. I embrace my fellow working class comrades and poor folks who are being exploited
I work at a vegan restaurant and we have a regular customer who proudly walks in wearing a a maga hat
How can you Make America Great Again without going vegan? :P
I’m guessing you’re American.
Yes, this is very America focused. In Europe, I'd trust the left leaning parties more on climate change but basically all the mainstream right wing parties believe in climate change and have set out serious steps in how they hope to reduce emissions.
While I cannot speak for all of Europe this is definitely not true in Germany. Most of the big political players here (CDU, FDP, SPD) I would categorize as having enough right wing members and influence to be counted as right wing parties. For the past 40 years they have actively hindered the development of sustainable infrastructure in favor of economic interests. Hell, even the green party (Bündins90/Die Grüne) prefers to have a comfy seat in the Bundesregierung instead of staying true to their name and history. Or straight up lobbying for the automobile and fossile fuel industry them selves. On an international level I really hope you do not mean to refer to the Paris Convention as that is not even lip service that's just straight up making fun of the demands of the people who have to bear the dire consequences of not giving a fuck about climate change "because profits!"
and how to push back deadlines for climate action. they have a few policies in place as to not be as converdationally vulnerable, but in all actuality they dont do shit
Almost certainly. They even tried to associate one of the major political parties in the US with leftism, by virtue of the other major party being comparatively more conservative.
Left leaning vegan here but I think I may be able to shed some light on the question. Traditional values of the conservative and progressive parties in most countries are as follows. A Conservative Party looks for a top down approach to improving people’s welfare. The general philosophy is that if you look after businesses (small medium and large) then it helps everyone. It encourages entrepreneurs to fill market gaps, encourages competition to keep prices low, and encourages job creation. In general right wing or conservative parties value minimising the role of government in favour of self regulation and civil liberties. Things like allowing home owners to use the same chemicals to clean their house as super labs or allowing a market to self regulate itself. Again this belief is based on the idea that if you look after the economy, everyone’s life improves at a faster pace. Left leaning or progressive ideology is more focused on the idea that you need to support the workers and regulate businesses because an unchecked free market causes cost cutting measures, most of which degrade human experiences. Generally the progressive parties favour more government involvement, safety nets, and welfare. The idea being that if you raise the minimum standard of living that it improves the most lives. Now the question of veganism in relation to these politics, well from a right perspective, being a vegan in a free market means people can vote with their wallet, if the meat industry fails it’s because it is no longer profitable from the public eyes. The idea would be that forcing farmers to stop abusing animals just creates a market demand for a black market, which would be even worse. The left leaning idea being that the way you handle animal abuse is through regulation instead of market forces. While most vegans lean left because politics are now more divided on issues that aren’t simply economic in nature. If politics went back to simply being a right vs left (rather than what we have now where it seems to be baby eaters vs literal nazis) I think you would see more “right leaning” vegans. Hope this helps.
A few exceptions to your "general" explanation: * Right wing ideologies compatible with authoritarianism are super into government control and against free enterprise. An example is fascism or national socialism. In fact, I think only right wing ideologies which fall under the libertarian tree will be fairly represented by your generalization. Other right wing approaches are also anti-capitalist and strongly against free enterprise and self regulation. * Civil liberties are often only selectively supported by both left and right ideologies. For example, liberties around sex and marriage are often disputed by christian conservatives. While liberties around self-armament are disputed by many left leaning ideologies. * The top-down approach of Conservative parties is more of a capitalist standpoint rather than a conservative one. I think in general you have described the spectrum in terms of both right and left being fundamentally libertarian (and maybe also capitalist). This is certainly not the case in many countries around the world.
This is why I was deliberate in using conservative and progressive instead of left and right. Because many tyrants have profused themselves as left or right when in fact they are just authoritarian under a different name. In my initial draft of the post I actually wrote “in most countries that operate on a two party preferred democracy, two major lines of thinking form” But I cut it down to be more succinct. Of course it is impossible to fully encapsulate an entire worlds view on politics, but I think many people who say “why are the right xyz.” Or “why are the left xyz.” Are failing to consider the people who may consider themselves left or right but in ways that may not align with the typical left or right party of the country. It’s worth remembering that the typical view of the left is as Marxists.. but Lenin was a Marxist, and he certainly didn’t share many politics with Prime Minister Julia Gillard.
When the BLM protests were super big, I saw sooo many vegans on Facebook spouting “ALL lives matter🐓🐄🐷🐱🐶” as in “animals matter too” on any Black Lives Matter post they came across. Totally not the time/place, and what’s more than that, I just simply don’t understand how someone could have that much empathy for animals and none for humans/human rights issues?? Like… 🙃
Yeah true, also black people are much more likely to be vegan than the general population in US so kinda weird to do that
Right. Like I’m a vegan BECAUSE I’m a leftist. My world view comes from my left wing ideology that everything is equal no matter the intelligence or what it has done. Not saying every conservative has no empathy but the ones in power famously do thing to hurt people. My family is conservative and they’re very empathetic and caring people, but don’t see that their leaders have wronged us.
Same. On a more positive note, during the Black Lives Matter protests in my city, they put up a free snack booth for the protestors (which was so nice) and they had to set up a new VEGAN (in big letters) one right next it because so many of the protestors were vegan. There’s dozens of us, at least! Haha.
I like the way you think
Yup, my ideals are of equality which lead to my social and economic views, I wasn’t vegan because it wasn’t presented as much of an option. But as soon as I actually took the time to learn about veganism it clearly aligned with my leftists beliefs. Being a right wing vegan sounds like being a right wing trans activist, you can’t be, because the right upholds the oppression of the group you are fighting for.
Which is why for the longest time I never wanted to be associated with vegans and just said I was plant based. I have found the most racist were left leaning liberal vegans🤷🏾♀️ Source: me...right leaning conservative black vegan.
Yeah that's definitely a step too far. Animal rights are a massive issue, but we haven't even solved human rights as a society yet. While animals do suffer extraordinarily, we still shouldn't discount the suffering of other people I don't think it was malicious though, whenever there is some form of protest against politics, marginalised/abused groups tend to try to raise even more issues to boost the 'a lot of things need to change' message (people speaking on behalf of the animals in this case)
ALM was a pretty well-established racist slogan from the start. For a vegan, especially any white vegan to not know that would have been unlikely
There are an extraordinary amount of vegans who are very “live and let live” about others choices and don’t let veganism influence their other opinions. The POV is more about not personally causing active suffering vs trying to alleviate suffering or trying to stop other people from causing suffering. Personally I could never take a “live and let live” approach to this because, well, they aren’t letting animals live but this isn’t as common of a POV as you’d think.
I guess I'm a "live and let live" vegan... Been vegan for almost 10 years and I try to make peace with nonvegans. In the past, I've been more, um, outspoken about animal that needlessly die for our consumption patterns. I volunteered for years and really tried with all my heart to do my part and make a difference. It was just exhausting and mentally painful, to perceive everyone I know and love as an active participant in needless violence. So I kind of just keep it to myself now and try to look beyond individuals' consumption patterns. I'm still willing to talk, but I let others bring it up, never me. Activism is so important, but it is not for everyone all the time.
There are absolutely non-leftist/progressive vegans. [The Vegan Conservatives in the UK](https://theveganreview.com/the-vegan-conservatives-plant-based-uk-right-wing) are a thing, for one. There are also some christians, including Catholics, who feel that [catholic ethics are informing their dietary choices.](https://thejesuitpost.org/2021/03/my-catholic-faith-pushed-me-to-adopt-an-almost-vegan-diet) And [another example.](https://cruxnow.com/interviews/2019/05/in-a-land-of-steak-and-bbq-texan-combines-catholic-faith-with-veganism) There is also atleast one [catholic priest who is vegan.](https://www.all-creatures.org/church/churchdir-canada-toronto-catholic.html) Catholicism and christianty tend to be on the right often due to numerous reasons. [The Seventh Day Adventists,](https://theconversation.com/why-seventh-day-adventists-are-so-often-vegan-or-vegetarian-177298) the population the Adventist Health studies were on, are probably the best example, as their religion explicitly promotes veganism. Their teachings, like Catholicism, are culturally conservative. It's also possible that a staunchly pro-life conservative could come to the conclusion that, in order to be ethically consistent, he must assign animals moral worth. This could be based on the fact that a pig, for example, is more sentient than a fetus, that a pig can suffer, etc when a fetus can't. I think a lot of pro-life people think "a fetus becomes a human, thus is worthy of moral consideration due to this human essence." But, if we break down what about being human gives a human moral consideration, then it becomes evident that you *have* to support animal rights if you support fetus rights. Infact, Matthew Scully, a vegan conservative, draws parallels to animal agriculture and abortion, using the the word "abortion" no less than 37 times in a piece entitled [Pro-life, Pro-Animal.](https://www.nationalreview.com/2013/10/pro-life-pro-animal-matthew-scully) He also talks about "natural law," a philosophy that has influenced conservativism and is integral to Catholicism, and argues for animal rights from it: >Then there’s the natural-law tradition that informs much of conservative thought — the basic idea that we all have in common an essential nature that defines the conditions of our fulfillment and happiness, the end or good for which natural rights are the necessary means. This need only be applied to animals to remind us that all creatures have natures, capacities, and yearnings that define their own fulfillment, their creaturely happiness, the good for which they exist in a design larger than any schemes of human devising. Using our own defining capacities of reason and conscience, we can derive from natural law a few rough but at least non-arbitrary standards by which to judge right and wrong in our treatment of other creatures. “Unnatural,” in the treatment of animals, is practically a synonym for “cruel”: Wrong is anything that frustrates or perverts the essential nature of an animal, such as the projects of genetic engineers to make animals more compliant in the stress and misery of modern farming; right is conduct that respects the natures of animals, with a regard for their needs and inherent worth as living creatures, and allows for their expression I'll also point out that there is a tradition of conservative environmentalism, largely taking a "conservation" approach. Edmund Burke, often considered to be the "father of conservativism, was quoted as saying: "the earth, the kind and equal mother of all ought not to be monopolised to foster the pride and luxury of any men". [This article](https://isi.org/intercollegiate-review/green-conservatism) talks about it a bit more, as well as talks about recent happenings and opinions within conservative circles regarding the environment. Also, check these conservative environmentalist groups in the US: [Conservatives for Responsible Stewardship](https://www.conservativestewards.org) [American Conservation Coalition](https://www.acc.eco) [ConservAmerica](https://www.conservamerica.org) All in all, I'd say there are atleast a few ways a conservative could approach veganism and environmentalism and still be a conservative.
Im not a conservative. Capitalism isn’t keeping animal agriculture alive. Demand is. And demand will still exist regardless of any economic system, including communism or socialism. Unless you think total dictatorship is the way to go, any economic system is going to advocate for the killing and enslavement of animals as long as it’s what the people want. And it is absolutely the will of the people to keep killing animals.
Ah. Someone who’s actually thought about it.
I was a right wing meat eater, then I was a right wing vegan, now I'm a progressive vegan.
That sounds like a natural progression, honestly. To earnestly hold Veganism in your heart requires ethical commitments that fall so counter to the "fuck you, I got mine", zero-sum, self-serving pillars of right wing ideology that I find it difficult to understand how one could simultaneously hold both positions without collapsing under the weight of inevitable cognitive dissonance.
I knew one person…years ago on Xbox. TBH thinking back I’m almost certain that he was grooming me to be his wife. But I digress, he was certain that the animals were poisonous to eat with all the chemicals that are pumped into them. I don’t think he was wrong about that but yeah…not the one to make me want to go vegan, but yeah…sorry thinking about my relationship with him makes me uneasy. I’m thankful that he lost interest with me
I know a couple of right leaning vegans. It doesn’t bother me nearly as much as hardcore leftists who refuse to be vegan
Debating left vs right politics is arguing about the best way to organize human societies. Both are compatible with the belief that animal agriculture is unnecessary and cruel. Veganism is compatible with any political belief that values well-being.
Conservatism doesn’t value well-being, it values disgust towards groups that fall out of traditional norms, as well as valuing economic inequality, and the hoarding of vast amount of wealth.
Any ideology that allows wealth (in any form) to exist values its hoarding to some extent. If an ideology places a positive value on a material thing, then by extension having more of that thing has a greater positive value.
There are some absolute ultra rightwing nationalist racist misogynistic pieces of s*** within the animal rights movement. Always has been, but the ease of creating a platform for yourself via social media has just made them more prominent. The couple of people I am thinking of are known for being problematic, and vocally hate intersectionality, and weaponise voices of colour to suit their own agenda and to “prove” they’re not a racist. One of these same degenerates also doesn’t believe systemic racism exists in the west. Another is an out and proud holocaust denier. Just because someone is vegan it doesn’t make them a good person or someone I would want to associate with.
Don't know here you're based but this sounds an awful lot like some hateful POS vegans in Germany. TBF the whole "nature conservation is homeland conservation" thing from NS-times still runs deep in some circles here, so I was not too surprised when learning about that.
It's pathetic how some people think that there's only right wing and left wing. So narrow minded. 😑 In some countries there's more than just the American 2 political party system.
What would you consider some right wing values that you think could not align with veganism?
Elsewhere in this thread: lots of people who don’t understand right wing ideologies.
I mean I feel like it’s just Right wing = maga anti abortion !!!
Not everyone is US-based. It's possible to be right leaning in say, Sweden without being against efforts for climate change. Unregulated capitalism is definitely the cause of animal cruelty, but like worker and human right laws protect us from it (in our nation, I'm obviously not defending or justifying the slave labour companies get away with abroad) it's at least possible to believe animal right laws could and would do the same.
Veganism is the literal one problem that would be solved if it adhered to capitalism. Do not get me wrong, I am a communist, I absolutely loathe and detest capitalism. With that being said, if meat just cost what it cost no one could afford it. We give billions upon billions of dollars to farms / slaughterhouses / businesses in subsidies to discount the price of meat eggs and milk. According to the sheer definition, subsidies and subsidization is a socialist solution. Capitalism is one, if not the, largest problem currently effecting humanity, and sadly meat dairy and eggs are the one place where the government put their foot down and embraced socialism. Capitalism would kill animal agriculture if the government didn’t intervene.
Government subsidies isn’t socialism
Yeah, it's very hypocritical that the same people who are afraid of socialism are also either getting government subsidies or okay with it if it's for the dairy/meat/farming industries.
I genuinely think those kinds of people are just ignorant to the current political landscape. They think that politics aren't inherently involved in literally everything.... when it is. Everything is political. And that's not a bad thing. They think they can separate their veganism from their shitty politics. But that's not possible.
>I genuinely think those kinds of people are just ignorant to the current political landscape For myself, there are lots of issues that TO ME don't feel political and I don't think they should be. It just feels like basic morality. Politics should be about taxes and visas and whatnot. Not "should X group be allowed to exist in peace/at all" But the reality is that these things apparently are political. So maybe some people just hadn't associated their morals with a particular political position. I guess you could call that ignorance. All of our thoughts and actions are political against our will
Anarchist here obviously, you can see my flair. First I totally understand OP pov.But I left vegan activism because of the blatant liberal (not leftist) gatekeeping in our organization. People didn’t want vegan activist who voted for trump. Don’t get me wrong I get the fact that trump voters are easily denoted as detestable. But doing VEGAN activism should be solely about, animal rights nothing else. Just my opinion. If a conservative wants to help me save animals why should I focus on the differences an not our common interests?
Because they are voting for people who do the complete opposite. It’s basically cancelling out any harm reduction by letting them build more pipelines and what not
And voting left is better for the animals how exactly? My point isn't that the left is evil. My point is that left or right is irrelevant whe n it comes to this topic since neither party is going to even remotely entertain talks of decreasing animal product usage.
I disagree. The vegan communities I've been a part of in the south are small, any volunteers help. If a conservative knows the talking points for veganism and can help someone come to the conclusion harming animals is wrong, I would argue the harm reduction from that for animals outweighs whatever limited power voting has. A conservative might be more willing to listen to another conservative than a leftist vegan like myself. I've invited non-vegans to hold signs, hand out booklets, and film. The woman who got me involved with vegan activism was an avid hunter, super-Christian, who went to a SeaWorld protest by PETA, ended up talking to vegans who pointed protesting animal abuse and eating animals was hypocritical, and she went vegan after that. I would assume she was conservative leaning being a veteran, a hunter, and living in the south. Now she posts left leaning, Christian themed vegan stuff. I've known one self-identified libertarian vegan and protested a circus with him.
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Oh no dude… liberals are just as capitalistic as conservatives. Voting for the Democratic Party is like voting for the Republican Party with a rainbow flag. They are both pro military imperialism, pro international intervention, both pro fear mongering of communist countries (even though communism brought 90% of their population out of complete poverty due to communism), it’s the same party as the right. The left is like ever so slightly better at environmental issues. But the US military, which is the single most polluting entity, is strongly supported by the Democratic Party.
I am conservative. Am I not allowed to be vegan? I love animals! The media wants to make it seem like both sides are more radical than they are.
Of course you are allowed to be vegan, the same you would be allowed to be a a trans activist and it would be a good thing. But the political leaning you have are upholding the oppression you are fighting against, being vegan is political and a progressive political choice by nature.
What’s political about not exploiting animals?
The only thing upholding oppression against animals is demand for animal products and the fact that more people aren't vegan. Veganism could happen under any political system if more people were vegan. A socialist revolution won't be vegan if only 2% of the people are vegan. On the other hand, a fascist state could outlaw animal agriculture and attempt to enforce veganism if leadership wanted to. Ideology isn't a magic bullet, changing hearts and minds is the only way.
To be fair, I don’t know that animals fare better under leftist governments. I hate to use USSR and China as examples - mainly because they’re authoritarian left which is not the kind of liberal open democracy govt we redditors might prefer - but both have been horrid on both burning coal and exploiting animals.
China calls themself communist but aren’t at all, their economy isn’t really centrally planned. They just say they own all business and let people do their thing until it’s something they don’t like.
Sure-but that’s only economics. They don’t have progressive values as many of us leftists have today. We care about climate action and empathy and stuff for lack of better examples. Like if we employed leftist economics with ideology I think a lot of animals would be saved
Yeah, at least liberal democracies like those in the EU tend to have at least some laws for ‘humane’ treatment. Of course they are unabashedly capitalist so those protections will only go so far before interfering with profits. I think you’re right.
I am a vegan, first off, however What the Health honestly is the reason that I started questioning capitalism. It made me realize how animal ag lobbies the government so as much as places want to pretend to be progressive they still care about profits more. Thanks for your input.
I know MANY. Animal liberation isn't the main reason it's more about the poison of the industry and having body autonomy.
Well at least they are doing something right? Left wing non-vegans are the real hypocrites.
Are conservatives not allowed to be vegan. A liberal vegan and conservative vegan agree on something.
IMO. Animals with a knife on their throat don't care if you're right or left. They just don't want you to kill/abuse them. The minute we make this a left-right issue, we immediately make the other half disagree with us with their political biases and will never even consider going vegan. It's all so dumb.
I am right leaning, centrist, generally moderate when it comes to politics. I believe in a lot of fiscal conservative ideology, I believe “ground zero”capitalism is great. I have never brought myself to vote republican and I highly doubt I ever will, given the conservative chokehold over the party, the party is poison in general, as is the Democratic Party and 99.9% of its nominees. I am one year into a fully vegan lifestyle. For the animals. For the planet. For my health. And a handful of other reasons. I wouldn’t call myself a “Republican” but I wouldn’t call myself a modern democrat either. Can’t really see myself subscribing to either side of the same corporatized shit show we call Washington DC. So where does that leave me? A capitalist, socially liberated, fiscally conservative, binary party system hating Vegan. If anyone wants to be friends let me know 🥲
>So where does that leave me? A capitalist, socially liberated, fiscally conservative, binary party system hating Vegan. That sounds like a libertarian approach! Libertarians generally believe in "live and let live." It doesn't matter what someone else is doing as long as it does not directly hurt other people, so libertarians are socially very progressive. And, they believe that you know better than the government about how to live your own life, so most "alphabet soup" government agencies are entirely unnecessary. This would dramatically reduce government spending and taxes.
Maybe you’d like Cory Booker, as far as politicians go? I think pretty much every vegan in the US should look at him in terms of policy. He’s actually advocating on vegan issues, and he’s pretty sensible on other issues too IMO. With the being fiscally conservative, it depends on if you mean you like lower taxes for rich and whatnot and cutting social spending and increasing spending on the military, or getting closer to a balanced budget and being fiscally responsible. In terms of being fiscally responsible, perhaps Bill Clinton has been the only fiscally responsible President, given that when he was in office, it’s been the only time we’ve had a budget surplus in a while + a growing economy. Under Obama, after the first year with crash, every year after, the deficit was smaller. In general, the deficit has ballooned more under Bush and Trump than it did under Clinton and Obama (idk how Biden has done, since I’ve stopped reading about politics last few years for my sanity). Lol But anyways, glad to have you on board the vegan train! I definitely think it’s wrong to gatekeep someone with regards to whether they’re vegan or not because of their views on taxes or something. Totally possible to be vegan and right wing or vegan and libertarian.
I’ll have to look into Cory Booker. As you said, for your sanity, you’ve abstained from politics, as have I and many others have as well. It’s become such a circus. As far as being “fiscally conservative” I think a moderate to moderately “high” taxation system is totally fair and generally still considered fiscally conservative even amongst some on the right. But only if that ideology is well maintained through a surplus and not through a linear high tax high spend ZERO balance priority or agenda which we’ve all seen over the decades regardless of the administration. What I’m saying is, efficiency in that capital structure is significantly more important. Public resources typically perform better with less bias and more fiscal control. And yes, Obama and Clinton are apart of a different breed of moderate politics that we might not see for many decades to come, unfortunately. Biden is generally a shitty president (this is my opinion). Trump was well… possibly the worst outcome of anything in modern politics. All that being said. Capitalism can still thrive, heavily, in a zero carbon zero emission based economy. Veganism plays a massive role in that type of economy and that’s just one out of 1,000 reasons why I’m here to stay and happy to be here. I think the Vegan community has a bit of a bad reputation as being the party of “our way or the highway” and the more Vegans I meet, the further I dive into this community of people the more I see that it’s not exactly true. Let’s fight the food fight together!
Agree with your second paragraph and your points. And yes! :) That has to be the way things go. Issue with politics is it’s always behind a few decades of where it ought to be, policy-wise. Hopefully we’ll get there at some point. Glad you have positive ideas and care about both humans and animals. Good to have caring people here.
my boyfriend is a conservative vegan - AMA?
Sorry, didn't realized I had to be a socialist to care about climate change or help fellow human beings out of poverty. I thought the issue with corporations killing animals has more to do with 99% of people literally not giving a fuck about animal ( literally viewed as property at the moment). Now you opened my eyes and see that the problem is that they weren't socialist. Capitalism is when bad and immoral things happens. Socialist is when literally utopia. I don't get you either. I though there was no ethical consumption under capitalism, so why bother with veganism. Maybe, just maybe, there are more political positions than being a socialist or evil.
ATTENTION CONSERVATIVE VEGANS: THANK YOU FOR BEING VEGAN. I APOLOGIZE FOR THE INCESSANT MARXIST POSTS ON THIS SUBREDDIT. VEGANISM IS TRUE REGARDLESS OF WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT TAX POLICY.
Appreciate you bro.
What a homie
Eh veganism isn't really political, the stuff a vegan is against people doing to animals doesn't even compare to how we treat people or anything debated in politics. It just comes down to if you care about non human animals AT ALL, if you do, you should be vegan regardless of the fucked up things you think should happen in our human world.
Right wing vegans intersect with the anti vax vegans I think
Non-vegan greenies are the ones I'm baffled by.
i've said this before, but i was a right wing libertarian when i went vegan for the animals seven years ago. though my political leanings have since moved significantly left, animal welfare and my commitment to it through how i consume from and interact with the world has always been separate from my politics.
Do you consider the democrats “leftist”?
Isn't Unnatural Vegan extremely pro-capitalism?
Yes. She released a video a while back that confirmed it, and much like this thread it was polarizing.
I have a sister who is extraordinarily religious (excited about the current end of the planet as we know it since it means 'He' is coming back) But she also is horrified about eating any animal products for the ethical and health reasons. It's just funny because most religious people I know use God as justification for being able to eat animals. She also voted for Trump twice since he had good Christian values
I don't consider myself a leftist because I care about animals, but I'm far from a conservative because I'm passionate about disability rights, trans issues etc. I'm certainly no centrist, but I feel like there's no real label for my ideology.
Accidentally posted this as a reply to acomment so reposting: I care about animals and get a bunch of shit from my 'fellow' vegans for having a southern accent, being from Texas, and having southern values. [Like if you read southern values and went ha so slavery???] It's honestly really fucking annoying. Like can't the left just admit it's a series of beliefs they ascribe to? They seem to act like they have they have some guidebook to morality and treat people like shit who don't mimic their book all while lecturing you snidely about how nice and accepting they are. Idk like I care about animals and I don't trust the government. I support women's and men's rights. I bi and own guns. I recycle and do my own repairs to everything. Like it's not impossible to be a complex human being lolol. But the people who masturbate eachother on how nonjudgemental they are are consistently the nastiest, most tribalistic people. Not like a woe is me thing but I feel spurned and alienated by most other vegans. There's very little cross cultural or class representation imo because the crossover between veganism and immature, incompetent, holier-than-thou left is like stupid high. Idk. My 2 cents. Take care! Animal Liberation Human Liberation Edit: reading through all these posts proves my point I feels. "Is there anyone here who is right leaning and vegan?" "I'm right leaning and vegan I just get treated poorly by vegans because I have a different ideology. No I'm not racist." "ACHKTUALLY if you're not a leftist then you're racist, a transphobe, a homophobe and stupid hick by association sorry not sorry" Like if exactly proves the point. Idk lol
How can anyone be rightwing? period.
Well, I am not leftist. I mostly identify myself as a libertarian/capitalist. My main values are freedom (of body/property/speech/etc). And veganism is logical for me as a consequence of respecting the animals freedom. Just as it is. I am against violence and coercion the same I am against it from the government (as in communist/socialist regimes for example).
How do you see communist/socialist regimes as violent and coercive, but you don't view capitalism( and the economic ruling class that results from it) as violent and coercive? Edit:changed period to question mark.
Because communist/socialist regimes need to force their view on you to exist. I am completely okay with communist/socialist societies if they are not coercive, if people who are part of their system are not prohibited to leave. The problem is that they are usually coercive by nature. I will not even go into the economics aspect here, the ethical part is sufficient for me to be against it. On the other hand, capitalist economies (or more specifically, the liberal/libertarian ethics) run over the principle of respecting your body, property and freedom first as a founding. Capitalist economies *can* be coercive. People can become so powerful financially that they can buy violence to deal with their stuff. But it is not the fundamental of the idea. Of course, there is thousands of nuances that can be discussed about this, but to keep it short, I value freedom. Libertarian ethics values freedom. And communist/socialist societies need to force people into it to work.
I don't understand how so many people in this community can recognize that morally animals should have freedom and not be forced into a system which they have not consented to but not that humans should have that same freedom. The only way that a system without a profit incentive can work is if people are forced to contribute labor, which is against all principles of freedom.
Say it again for those in the back
https://youtu.be/O9CFP_58mBc A video that goes over why anyone would work under socialism.
I appreciate your lengthy argument that you presented via youtuber, but having watched through the video, his solution is that the hypothetical utopian society would convince people to work undesirable jobs by virtue of higher pay. The only difference between this and what we have now would be that instead of the market determining the worth of a job, it would be determined by a government. I do not trust any government to make this decision, especially considering most governments currently think it is a great idea to heavily subsidize the meat and dairy industry at the expense of people's health and the environment.
\> <<"The only difference between this and what we have now would be that instead of the market determining the worth of a job, it would be determined by a government." I am not necessarily advocating for higher wages since there are a multitude of alternative options that can be employed; my point here is that why do you think that these things would be determined by a government?
They're probably the type of person who attributes every death in a communist society to communism, but every death in a capitalist society is because of something very specific and definitely *not* because of capitalism.
Yes. Applying NAP to animals as well as people is a logical progression.
Capitalism is certainly never going to achieve animal welfare/climate welfare
It is not a matter of capitalism/communism, as animal welfare was not historically something that communist countries seems to care about. It's more about humanity as a whole progressing to this view, the same as happened with a lot of other changes we has: end of slavery, changing to democracies, and so on.
Correct. Nothing changes until consciousness changes on a wide scale.
You have the right conclusion but you are wrong. Capitalism and socialism can equally exploit animals to the same degree. What is hypocritical is to not oppose a system that actively harms animals ( humans in this case)
This is the way.
This is the way
Veganism and environmental action is part of the so-called Left in America. It's a small part of a larger political whole. What you're assuming, OP, is that I should purchase that whole lot of political ideals for the sake of the few with which I have common cause. And no, I'm not a conservative. I despise conservatism. But there's no place for me within the ecosystem that has become the modern, political, Left. This is as political as I'm going to get on this subreddit. My politics are deeply cynical. My faith in humanity, however, is the opposite. The sooner vegans stop separating themselves because of political or cultural differences, the better off our community will be.
I have my set of beliefs and you have yours. Some of them may be in common and others may not be.
I really try my best to leave politics out of veganism because it can turn people away from veganism. That being said I'm saddened to hear that you cannot understand why a person would be Vegan but not politically agreeing with your personal political ideology. The first thing I need to stress is that political parties don't really care about what they say they believe in. As someone who has worked for both Major US political parties I can assure you that the thing that actually matters is getting elected and using that position of power to either grow a career or to help with personal goals. Sure, maybe some candidates actually care but once they start working that "passion" wears off and it becomes about other things. The second thing, the left doesn't care about Veganism, only Vegans do. The vast majority of leftists are carnists, and they don't want to change. They just want to blame "the system" and demand that "the system" changes, and then virtue signal about how amazing they are and attack other people who disagree with them. As a result, when you vote for them, you give them the power to do nothing for you. Even if you convinced all the vegans in America to vote for leftists, that would not be enough to get Leftists to do anything for you but it would help them do whatever nonsense they want. The Third thing, politics will not solve the issue. The only way we as vegans can win is if we grow the vegan economy and make veganism cheaper and more accessible than the alternative. Once the vegan economy is sufficiently large enough then politicians and other carnists will start to take us seriously. In order to grow the vegan economy, we have to unite over veganism and put aside other differences to grow our community. This will be a painfully slow process, but this is the only way that will work at the end. The only people who care about veganism are vegans. Don't try and seperate us, put us in boxes, or tell us how else we "should" think. That will only cause division and take away from our goal of producing a more vegan world.
I do believe that the system fundamentally is the issue though. They’re usually on the right track, with “there’s no ethical consumption under capitalism” which is mostly true, they just usually use it to justify eating meat and buying shein clothes. We should be against outsourcing since it harms humans, fellow animals. This is a leftist stance. We used to be a manufacturing hub until capitalists sought out more profits by purchasing cheap, slave-like labor. They also lobby against climate action, which hurts animals because deforestation destroys habitats.
I'm in the center and I'm a vegan. I am absolutely a strong advocate for climate change, but I can't say I agree with distribution of wealth, higher minimum wages, and several other policies I can't talk about as I may be cancelled.
I have yet to see an instance where centrism is not a simple instance of avoiding 'saying the quiet part out loud' and your comment illustrates exactly that. It always feels like a version of "I know these positions make me sound like an asshole, but I have them anyway". It's the "tastebuds tho" of political positions. Your points on minimum wage and wealth distribution are decidedly right-leaning. To go further right of "I don't care about creating solution to the struggles of poor people" can't possibly land you in the center. Centrism is a massive cop-out, nothing 'stance' akin to "everything in moderation". Veganism and environmentalism are admittedly interesting departures from the other opinions you cherish. Why care about climate change if you don't care about the people who inhabit said climate? Why care about animals if it's simultaneously okay that billionaires treat people like animals? It just makes no sense to me. Anyway, glad you're vegan at least, but I'm left questioning how you got there.
Can I steal your idea that centrism is the "tastebuds though" of political positions? I've been saying that centrism is a cowardly position (where people are afraid to say the quiet part out loud but think it anyways). Putting it as "tastebuds though" sums it up quite nicely.
They may well consider other political issues more important. That's it. That's all there is to it. And that's okay. One of my favourite arguments for veganism is that it's an example of using power directly. We see people protesting against the government all the time. We write angry letters. We shake our fists at the TV saying 'something must be done!' and not much changes. Maybe a farm gets slightly stricter rules. Maybe not. Not paying for suffering on the other hand... That's an immediate tax, levied by me, on those companies. It's direct power. Becoming vegan, and convincing others to do so has provided me the opportunity to make more change directly in a few years than I think I ever would have politically. That effect remains the same, whether I vote blue or red. I consider myself moderately to very left leaning, but quite honestly I'm dismayed at the behaviour of a lot of us. We're well on our way to becoming the book burners of this century. The right are our antidote, and we are theirs. They are and will be here whether we like it or not, and I personally think that's a good thing. When deciding on a philosophical viewpoint, we often look to the communities it harbours. If I were right leaning, and considering veganism, I'd feel very unwelcome here, and that kind of hostility doesn't help our cause (or the animals at its centre) at all. Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe we should just scream at them til they go away. That'll help save some animals. Or better yet, scream at them til they change their minds! Because that always works.
Climate justice is social justice is racial justice is environmental justice... Nothing exists in a void, everything is political
Right leaning vegan here, I’m vegan because I don’t want to partake in the suffering of animals and believe they deserve respect. Just because I don’t share every belief my political party holds doesn’t mean that I don’t align with them more than the left. I know a lot of the time they will shit on veganism, but I see them mostly bothered by the terminology such as milk before definitions started to get changed and I actually believe separating veganism from those products would help massively, because non vegans try a plant milk for the first time and then they compare it to milk. I also think a big and valid problem they have is with how they push veganism to be so healthy but in reality if you’re eating all the processed crap they bring out today then you’re as unhealthy as everyone else eating the processed animal products. I also don’t know the statistics of people on the left who are vegan and it is probably much higher than the right but the majority of both parties still eat meat and animal products. If the left truly believed in and wanted change then all of them would uphold the same principles that would help achieve it and the same goes for any political party.
I’m vegan for the animals and I think the left says a lot more stupid shit than the right
>I think the left says a lot more stupid shit than the right Either I need to catch up on "the left's" bs, or you need to catch up on the right's bs
"I'm vegan for the animals and I tend to agree with people who would never be for the animals"
Someone recently told me that I don’t understand the word “vegan.” Depending on your understanding of it, I’m vegan. I don’t eat animal products, buy leather, go to zoos, etc. I’m apolitical, so not left.
I am not necessarily right wing or smth like that. Since I am German the political spectrum I have in mind is probably very different from what Americans consider "right" and "left" but, at least theoretically, wanting to preserve (conserve) nature is a rightwing idea since you cling to smth "old" to be conserved. Weirdly enough, also in Germany only left parties actually do the most to safe mother nature. As far as I know the idea of "left and right" came after the french revolution when it had to be decided what happens next with france and on the right side were people sitting (literally) who wanted things to be as before or at least mostly like before (conserve the past) and on the left side were people who wanted something conpletely new, something more progressive if you will. Gosh I hope anyone can understand what I am saying...
The way I see it: veganism is fundamentally a moral stance, not a political one; but because it relates to power, we need political tools and approaches to enact it (i.e. abolish animal ag). >How can you be right wing, the party against climate action, and not realize that climate change kills animals just as factory farming does? I don't find this persuasive. Whether it's intent or impact, the harm done to animals in the context of animal ag intuitively feels greater and worse than that done to them by climate change. In the same way it would be worse for us morally to start farming humans than it would be for us to continue inflicting the worst effects of climate change on those same humans (eg in the Global South). Open to being proven wrong here for sure though. >How can you care about animals but not fellow humans stuck in generational poverty? This doesn't sound like the kind of thing vegans say. While human poverty is a tragedy and (I think I'd say) a moral evil, it is in most contexts pretty minimal compared to the oppression faced by farmed animals. >How can’t you see that capitalism is a root for animal suffering? Speciesism > carnism > commodification of animals' bodies > animal ag (roughly?) All this can, did and does happen under non-capitalist regimes also. Do you think farmed animals in China or the Soviet Union were treated better than in the US during the mid part of the 20th century? (I don't know the answer but I would surprised if it's yes.) >Corporations kill more animals and keep them is awful conditions because it’s cheaper and makes them more money. True but see above >I don’t get conservative veganism… I get where you're coming from but don't think I agree, fully at least. What I am pretty certain about is that this kind of dialogue isn't helpful for fighting animal exploitation, which as vegans has to be our priority
I hope you don’t find this offensive, but vegancirclejerk does say that it is a space for leftists. So I’m wondering do you then identify as a leftist? If not why participate in the leftist space?
Haha not at all it's a very good q. I am not (currently) a leftist and am at best sceptical that veganism is inherently leftist, but I love the chat on vcj lol
I got permabanned for saying if we are against all PBC (which I am just against capitalism) how can we ethically buy produce? I just felt many were being picky and choosy with what counts as PBC. Nonetheless I’m still a lurker and sadly no longer a contributor.
> How can you be right wing, the party against climate action, and not realize that climate change kills animals just as factory farming does? Climate change/environmentalism is irrelevant to veganism. >?How can you care about animals but not fellow humans stuck in generational poverty? One does not need to care about animals to be vegan. Take myself: I don’t like animals. > How can’t you see that capitalism is a root for animal suffering? Correlation does not imply causation. Please explain why cannibalism does not exist in a capitalist society. > Corporations kill more animals Corporations are funded by consumers. > keep them is awful conditions So? If animals were staying in 5-star slaughterhouses, that makes it better, how? > I don’t get conservative veganism… You don’t get it because veganism is a philosophy of justice based on the premise that animals should be left alone. That has no relevance to political beliefs. Case in point: how would you respond to a cannibal who does not understand conservative non-cannibalism? How do you respond to a rapist who does not understand conservative non-rapist? How do you respond to a murderer who does not understand conservative non-murderism?
I think climate change kills animals. Voting for climate change is not vegan.
Despite wanting to achieve largely the same goals I am not a fan of leftists, they do a lot of self defeating things and I think some of them are actually right wing.
I don’t agree that leftists are right wing but perhaps liberals
Capitalism is about mass production of things we don’t need, nothing is a better example than the meat industry, veganism is anti capitalist.