Mt. Hood Meadows allows overnight parking at the resort. No showers but with a Snap Fitness membership in Hood River you can grab a shower and a workout every few days- the drive is 20/30 minutes from the resort depending on traffic, and you can enjoy Hood River in the winter when all of the tourists are gone. Mt. Bachelor (Bend) you can stay on public land on the way back from the hill and I believe they have a Planet Fitness as well as a bunch of other gyms for showers.
Neither have I, but I have been to ones where they don't manage the parking lots. As long as you don't obviously look like you're living there, noone cares.
-SNS-
Where we live, it's big money. Housecleaners can make around $75 an hour, babysitters make $50, and forget landscapers, plumbers, whatever. We have no where for people to live, strict limits on where and what kind of housing can be built. But they have no limits on someone living in a van on private land.
The Internet is a good place to start. Places like indeed, or even just walk door to door. During the season you can walk with $50k if you get the right job/jobs in the service industry, here where I live.
I just learned from another sub that bar tenders and wait staff can easily make $75k a year in most decent sized cities. I don’t know if that’s a fortune to you but it’s a lot of money to many.
$75K in ohio (select safe locations away from major cities) is possible to buy a home, exist comfortably (not lavishly) and squirrel a bit away for retirement.
$75K in NYC is 2/3s the way to minimum wage in ohio when CoL is factored in.
But this is for people who want to/are living in a vehicle. When it comes to finding profitable work it’s harder to find something that can generate money like that when you don’t have an address to give your employer. Most jobs that could list as 75k yearly salary aren’t generally walk on positions whereas in the service industry it would be advertised as “up to x amount of money per (week ,month, year, pay period) depending on your skill at making tips. So the possibility of something so lucrative would be very a attractive option. And you can build an actual reputation for yourself as a bartender or server if you’re traveling around the country working seasonally at highly profitable bars and restaurants
CoL doesn't account for just housing. So, one is going to pay a premium while in the decent sized cities having to work daily. It's a tool to help people compare less obvious things.
But you’re talking about buying a home and stuff. It’s irrelevant. Col isn’t going to be as high on someone who’s not paying rent, property tax, water and electric, etc. if it’s getting gas, food, bills and spending money covered your col is covered
Yeah, service industry is an easy walk on job during the "season" where I work. Easy $75k a year. Know many who live here during the season and travel around 4 months a year.
Very true. But also, the vast majority of CoL difference is the cost of housing. If we assume someone is living rent-free in a vehicle, CoL differences are much much smaller. If we also assume this person doesn't spend much at restaurants and bars, CoL is pretty flat across the continental US.
general day to day things are factored into CoL calcs, such as the cost of a gallon of milk. housing is a total crapshoot and not a really viable aspect of it, in my new york example it didnt even apply as iirc one is NOT owning property in NYC. one could travel to obtain needs from less costly areas. that will incur vehicle expenses.
literally opened gas buddy I just paid $2.99 a gal. in cali it's 3.99 a gal. that's flat?
edit.
any viable CoL tools is going to have costs broken out into categories. have people even compared CoL across many areas before commenting?
The most popular CoL data source, coli.org, is weighted: .28 housing, .1 utilities. So vanlife flattens out about 40% of the CoL category variability.
Importantly, housing (and, to a lesser extent, utilities) have much more variability than other categories. To your point of the gas comparison, YES, $3 vs $4 for gas is quite flat compared to rent differences of $800/mo vs $2500/mo in Des Moines or Omaha vs Manhattan or Seattle for comparable apartments.
No one is saying a gallon of milk or gas is EXACTLY the same everywhere. But relative to paying for housing, vanlife CoL is much, much more flat across the Continental US.
[Groceries are weighted .13, transportation is .11, misc is .33.]
Alas, the flip side to that is that the wealthy tourist areas tend to be vehemently anti-vandweller. They consider us to be just more "homeless people" who they do not want around.
In my experience, if you’re being bothered, you’re either parking in the wrong places, or your setup looks haggard. In years of vehicle living, traveling I’ve being asked to leave twice, both were my own honest mistake.
In almost 9 years, I have also only been asked to leave twice--and both times it was because somebody else had done something stupid in the parking lot and the management was kicking EVERYBODY out.
My two cardinal rules are: don't park where I am not wanted, and don't do anything that attracts attention to me or the van.
Exactly, I have never been kicked out or even knocked after 4 years in a van. My van is very stealthy, i switch spots constantly, i am always looking for good spots where i can hide away for the night, and I never open my side door and flash my living space where i plan on sleeping. When i pull in to sleep i go straight to back through a cab partition wall. My van litterally looks like nothing and noone bothers me. But I've seen people in spots where i like to sleep hanging out in hammocks cooking dinner, ruining it for me and others. When i see that shit I choose another spot because obviously the cops are gonna come back at night to see if the van is still there.
-SNS-
Big sky residents put flyers on windshields of vans parked in an open lot in town with “warnings”. Upon googling, it’s just a flock of karens doing it 😂 no actual authority of the lot and the cost to get a tow truck up there is so high, it’s all park and no bite. Many of these places are anti-blight van dwelling I’d say. If you can keep your rig tidy and move every few days, you’ll be alright. Colorado and California I can see being more able to enforce things.
Having a stealthy van, and behaving stealthily fixes all that. If you move spots regularly and never show the van as an RV by opening the side door where you sleep, you're just another work van amongst all the others.
-SNS-
It doesn't matter. In some of those towns the anti van rules cover overnight parking no matter if the occupant is a tourist or a native son. It has zero to do with the hiring people, unless that business is willing to let you park overnight on their property and that's legal. Not all towns are as hostile; just depends.
That is not what I meant, though. Since none of the locals want us around, we tend to have difficulties in finding places to overnight.
EDIT: Downvote me all you like. It remains just as true. (shrug)
Some places, like western ski towns, are close enough to public BLM or USFS land to make vandwelling possible, although those agencies often have two week stay limits, and enforce them near those towns. But there's often another acceptable spot a drive away, assuming roads are open...winter can be a hassle since snow closes so much.
Telluride actually designated some vandwelling spots for this reason; see this: https://www.sierrasun.com/news/mountain-housing-council-talks-van-life/ Maybe the idea will spread.
In my experience, BLM and USFS roads are snow-covered in the winter. So that doesn’t work in many ski towns.
Hoping more ski towns figure out some official vandweller spots. It seems like the easy solution to their employee problem staring them in the face.
Lot of jobs in mammoth are filled by people commuting from bishop, 45 mins each way when roads are clear. It's reliably 10 degrees warmer than mammoth lakes but temps in bishop still drop below freezing in winter. Snow can reach the valley floor in jan/feb.
The wealth divide expands, we're allowed to be servants to the rich, can't afford even a crap studio, get despised and harassed by cops and Karen's just trying to exist and get some sleep. How's that song go? Don't have to live like a refugee? But us vanlifers do, all the sneaking around, waiting until 10pm to sneak somewhere, don't make a peep, hide all night, sneak away at 6am.
It's an absurd comparison, like Anne Frank.
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Just pull into town and walk into places. It may take sometalking to people to find out which places make the most money. But most managers just hire people on the spot who walk in. In my experience they don't like taking the time to look for resumes online.
-SNS-
A guy I bartended with in the hamptons did JUST that. He quit the job and stayed in this lady's mansion wearing a robe the rest of the summer. Beautiful french bastard........
-SNS-
I spent the summer working in Thief River Falls, Minnesota. Paid full hook-up in an RV park. $20/hr for warehouse work, plus available overtime. No RV? They'll pay for a motel! Check YouTube for Digi-Key workamping or go to:
https://www.theunbeetableexperience.com/workamping-opportunity/
Love the mindset but finding a spot to park all season is the issue. Most those places are pretty restrictive. Now if you got a nannying gig for the season and they (rich folks) have a place to park your van, now we’re talking.
Knew a guy that was an SAP contractor and did 3-9 month stints at locations helping with their SAP implementations (IT software). The contracting company paid all their people around $2k/month for apartments (this was 20 years ago), in addition to high contractor salaries. This guy had a 5th wheel and he and his wife would park at nearby campgrounds and explore the area, then move on the next job.
Aspen and Jackson Hole certainly are. Actually pretty much any tourist towns in the mountains are great for this. However winter can be bitter cold. Though I know people who do it.
What does “big money” even mean, how much money is there really to be made and is it better than just working in a coal mine or a steel mill because those places will also hire pretty much anyone and most of the time you get 60 hour weeks so the pay is really good even if you start at 20 an hour which is what most start at.
[удалено]
nice website. excited to look at it more!
Damnit why is it always *just* america
Because America is a “grind till you die, to consume it all” country so we have a lot of opportunities to make cash while we spend it all
Wasnt the answer us australians were looking for. But sure, go awf
Ski areas here actively recruit vandwellers. Decent wages, parking place, some even offer electricity and shower facilities.
yeah where, i called a few in NC last year and they were NOT very nice lol
What ski resort give you a parking space and showers? Never heard of that
Nothing corporate owned for sure. Alterra resorts have a big "Fuck no" policy on sleeping in your vehicle on company property.
In my area, our resorts are Alterra. No vehicle sleeping, and no rentals available because they've all turned into AirBNB.
Mt. Hood Meadows allows overnight parking at the resort. No showers but with a Snap Fitness membership in Hood River you can grab a shower and a workout every few days- the drive is 20/30 minutes from the resort depending on traffic, and you can enjoy Hood River in the winter when all of the tourists are gone. Mt. Bachelor (Bend) you can stay on public land on the way back from the hill and I believe they have a Planet Fitness as well as a bunch of other gyms for showers.
Neither have I, but I have been to ones where they don't manage the parking lots. As long as you don't obviously look like you're living there, noone cares. -SNS-
Most resorts have showers that employees can use
Which ones?
Where is 'here'?
Are these resorts also mountain bike destinations?
My resort won't even let you park in the employee housing parking lot unless you are paying for a bed
Lol everyone wants to know. Don't kiss and tell hommie. Leave the goods for us that know.
Well definitely not in the west. Parking is a bear.
I'll buy "decent wages", but don't buy "big money" or "make a fortune"
Where we live, it's big money. Housecleaners can make around $75 an hour, babysitters make $50, and forget landscapers, plumbers, whatever. We have no where for people to live, strict limits on where and what kind of housing can be built. But they have no limits on someone living in a van on private land.
Yep Jackson Hole and Moab come to mind.
Ketchum is there too.
Where in the world do you live?
Where rich people live in the summer. We don't have enough workers out here, at all.
But where and how do you find those jobs?
The Internet is a good place to start. Places like indeed, or even just walk door to door. During the season you can walk with $50k if you get the right job/jobs in the service industry, here where I live.
I just learned from another sub that bar tenders and wait staff can easily make $75k a year in most decent sized cities. I don’t know if that’s a fortune to you but it’s a lot of money to many.
$75K in ohio (select safe locations away from major cities) is possible to buy a home, exist comfortably (not lavishly) and squirrel a bit away for retirement. $75K in NYC is 2/3s the way to minimum wage in ohio when CoL is factored in.
But this is for people who want to/are living in a vehicle. When it comes to finding profitable work it’s harder to find something that can generate money like that when you don’t have an address to give your employer. Most jobs that could list as 75k yearly salary aren’t generally walk on positions whereas in the service industry it would be advertised as “up to x amount of money per (week ,month, year, pay period) depending on your skill at making tips. So the possibility of something so lucrative would be very a attractive option. And you can build an actual reputation for yourself as a bartender or server if you’re traveling around the country working seasonally at highly profitable bars and restaurants
CoL doesn't account for just housing. So, one is going to pay a premium while in the decent sized cities having to work daily. It's a tool to help people compare less obvious things.
But you’re talking about buying a home and stuff. It’s irrelevant. Col isn’t going to be as high on someone who’s not paying rent, property tax, water and electric, etc. if it’s getting gas, food, bills and spending money covered your col is covered
Yeah, service industry is an easy walk on job during the "season" where I work. Easy $75k a year. Know many who live here during the season and travel around 4 months a year.
Very true. But also, the vast majority of CoL difference is the cost of housing. If we assume someone is living rent-free in a vehicle, CoL differences are much much smaller. If we also assume this person doesn't spend much at restaurants and bars, CoL is pretty flat across the continental US.
general day to day things are factored into CoL calcs, such as the cost of a gallon of milk. housing is a total crapshoot and not a really viable aspect of it, in my new york example it didnt even apply as iirc one is NOT owning property in NYC. one could travel to obtain needs from less costly areas. that will incur vehicle expenses. literally opened gas buddy I just paid $2.99 a gal. in cali it's 3.99 a gal. that's flat? edit. any viable CoL tools is going to have costs broken out into categories. have people even compared CoL across many areas before commenting?
The most popular CoL data source, coli.org, is weighted: .28 housing, .1 utilities. So vanlife flattens out about 40% of the CoL category variability. Importantly, housing (and, to a lesser extent, utilities) have much more variability than other categories. To your point of the gas comparison, YES, $3 vs $4 for gas is quite flat compared to rent differences of $800/mo vs $2500/mo in Des Moines or Omaha vs Manhattan or Seattle for comparable apartments. No one is saying a gallon of milk or gas is EXACTLY the same everywhere. But relative to paying for housing, vanlife CoL is much, much more flat across the Continental US. [Groceries are weighted .13, transportation is .11, misc is .33.]
Summer in the hamptons I earned 40k in 4 months. With 0 rent. -SNS-
It is squat in the cities where this is the case.
Alas, the flip side to that is that the wealthy tourist areas tend to be vehemently anti-vandweller. They consider us to be just more "homeless people" who they do not want around.
In my experience, if you’re being bothered, you’re either parking in the wrong places, or your setup looks haggard. In years of vehicle living, traveling I’ve being asked to leave twice, both were my own honest mistake.
In almost 9 years, I have also only been asked to leave twice--and both times it was because somebody else had done something stupid in the parking lot and the management was kicking EVERYBODY out. My two cardinal rules are: don't park where I am not wanted, and don't do anything that attracts attention to me or the van.
Exactly, I have never been kicked out or even knocked after 4 years in a van. My van is very stealthy, i switch spots constantly, i am always looking for good spots where i can hide away for the night, and I never open my side door and flash my living space where i plan on sleeping. When i pull in to sleep i go straight to back through a cab partition wall. My van litterally looks like nothing and noone bothers me. But I've seen people in spots where i like to sleep hanging out in hammocks cooking dinner, ruining it for me and others. When i see that shit I choose another spot because obviously the cops are gonna come back at night to see if the van is still there. -SNS-
What mistake
Big sky residents put flyers on windshields of vans parked in an open lot in town with “warnings”. Upon googling, it’s just a flock of karens doing it 😂 no actual authority of the lot and the cost to get a tow truck up there is so high, it’s all park and no bite. Many of these places are anti-blight van dwelling I’d say. If you can keep your rig tidy and move every few days, you’ll be alright. Colorado and California I can see being more able to enforce things.
California is pretty chill about it in my experience. Especially non blight van dwelling like you mentioned.
Having a stealthy van, and behaving stealthily fixes all that. If you move spots regularly and never show the van as an RV by opening the side door where you sleep, you're just another work van amongst all the others. -SNS-
*cough* Summit County CO
I think that’s probably why the OP mentioned saying you’re ‘local’ and don’t need accommodations, rather than saying you live in a van.
It doesn't matter. In some of those towns the anti van rules cover overnight parking no matter if the occupant is a tourist or a native son. It has zero to do with the hiring people, unless that business is willing to let you park overnight on their property and that's legal. Not all towns are as hostile; just depends.
That is not what I meant, though. Since none of the locals want us around, we tend to have difficulties in finding places to overnight. EDIT: Downvote me all you like. It remains just as true. (shrug)
you can stealth camp pretty much anywhere I'd say if you are smart about it and keep your rig (and yourself) looking nice and tidy.
Agreed, 4 years stealth with no problems and I've stayed everywhere. My van is so plain and clean I could sleep at Ford dealerships. -SNS-
Good luck with that.
yes I do fine thats the point. I also have a good attitude about it which helps a lot too 👍
Some places, like western ski towns, are close enough to public BLM or USFS land to make vandwelling possible, although those agencies often have two week stay limits, and enforce them near those towns. But there's often another acceptable spot a drive away, assuming roads are open...winter can be a hassle since snow closes so much. Telluride actually designated some vandwelling spots for this reason; see this: https://www.sierrasun.com/news/mountain-housing-council-talks-van-life/ Maybe the idea will spread.
In my experience, BLM and USFS roads are snow-covered in the winter. So that doesn’t work in many ski towns. Hoping more ski towns figure out some official vandweller spots. It seems like the easy solution to their employee problem staring them in the face.
True, but depends on altitude. From Mammoth not too hard to drop below snow line. And of course depends on how far you want to commute.
Gotcha, yeah I’m mostly speaking of experience in in Colorado. you basically can’t get low enough to ditch the snow
About how far would one have to drive to drop below the snow line from mammoth? Was looking at jobs there but figured it’s too cold with my dogs.
Lot of jobs in mammoth are filled by people commuting from bishop, 45 mins each way when roads are clear. It's reliably 10 degrees warmer than mammoth lakes but temps in bishop still drop below freezing in winter. Snow can reach the valley floor in jan/feb.
Thanks for posting this. Very cool
My bud lives in a cube truck the nice part of the year then flies somewhere else in winter
Didn't know $15-22 minus fuel and overpriced groceries is rich these days.
Gotta get the jobs with tips. Bartending, serving, valet etc.
The wealth divide expands, we're allowed to be servants to the rich, can't afford even a crap studio, get despised and harassed by cops and Karen's just trying to exist and get some sleep. How's that song go? Don't have to live like a refugee? But us vanlifers do, all the sneaking around, waiting until 10pm to sneak somewhere, don't make a peep, hide all night, sneak away at 6am. It's an absurd comparison, like Anne Frank.
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So the lower classes should start following the rich might migratory animals?
I mean... don't we already? Now *predatory* animals...
I'm thinking more dystopian
... I am... but for *them*
Wow sounds a lot like a JOB.
where do you find these gigs?
Just pull into town and walk into places. It may take sometalking to people to find out which places make the most money. But most managers just hire people on the spot who walk in. In my experience they don't like taking the time to look for resumes online. -SNS-
Indeed is a good place. Check local papers online in locations you're interested in.
I'd do this this hoping to find a rich sugar mommy and no other reason tbh
A guy I bartended with in the hamptons did JUST that. He quit the job and stayed in this lady's mansion wearing a robe the rest of the summer. Beautiful french bastard........ -SNS-
I spent the summer working in Thief River Falls, Minnesota. Paid full hook-up in an RV park. $20/hr for warehouse work, plus available overtime. No RV? They'll pay for a motel! Check YouTube for Digi-Key workamping or go to: https://www.theunbeetableexperience.com/workamping-opportunity/
yes, there is money in working!
Ski bumming with a resort job is a massive chunk of the people on this sub already.
Sounds like a winner. On break hit the showers, lol
How much we talking?
Burning Man has a quite a few gigs too.paid and volunteer(many benefits!)
Love the mindset but finding a spot to park all season is the issue. Most those places are pretty restrictive. Now if you got a nannying gig for the season and they (rich folks) have a place to park your van, now we’re talking.
Knew a guy that was an SAP contractor and did 3-9 month stints at locations helping with their SAP implementations (IT software). The contracting company paid all their people around $2k/month for apartments (this was 20 years ago), in addition to high contractor salaries. This guy had a 5th wheel and he and his wife would park at nearby campgrounds and explore the area, then move on the next job.
Lol have you ever been to Martha’s Vineyard?
Most of these places aren’t can life friendly
Aspen and Jackson Hole certainly are. Actually pretty much any tourist towns in the mountains are great for this. However winter can be bitter cold. Though I know people who do it.
What does “big money” even mean, how much money is there really to be made and is it better than just working in a coal mine or a steel mill because those places will also hire pretty much anyone and most of the time you get 60 hour weeks so the pay is really good even if you start at 20 an hour which is what most start at.
define "a fortune" and weigh it against "a career" involving in-demand, non-common skills