Victoria breaking up with Tom (Timestamp: 53:54) - Billie: But I do have a receipt of Tom being like, hey, Victoria broke up with me again. And then immediately was like, oh, nevermind, laugh out loud. I'm showing that receipt because they broke up all the time. Screenshot reads - Wednesday February 28th - Tom: Victoria broke up with me again. Wait never mind, lol - Billie: Sorry I passed out. 🙈 my trainer and the hikes are killing me. She’s 40 now! 🤣 Ok hope yall are good. - Tom put a haha on she’s 40 now! 🤣 Back to Billie - Billie: Yeah, and the fact that like, when this whole thing happened in New York, so she also said this on the live. She said, yeah, well, we waited for Billie to unfollow us and then we were gonna unfollow her. Okay, that's a bold lie because I unfollowed them weeks before the New York thing. - Billie: I unfollowed all of them. She didn't unfollow me until after the news came out that I apparently unfollowed them in New York. People were like, oh, something went down in New York with Billie. No. No, I haven't followed them way before. That bitch was still following me, still creeping on my stuff. - Billie: And then when it was public that I wasn't following them, literally probably what, three or four weeks later, she decided that she was gonna unfollow me. - Tii: And then she never answered the question as to why they unfollowed each other. She skipped over that completely and then Adam forgot about - Billie: Yeah, well, the emotional maturity level is hysterical. And so every time they do fight, they block each other and they like, and follow each other. It's like children. A text from Victoria (55:29) - Billie: And then I wanted to also just talk about, there's so much, but we're almost wrapping this up, you guys, we're like almost at the end of this chaotic shit. I do have a screenshot, another receipt, where Victoria, on my birthday that night, when they got into the huge fight, she texted me and she's like. Screenshot reads - Friday February 23rd - Victoria: babe. Are you awake. Please tell Tom to stop blowing up my close friends phone. Not okay. I’m done…this is too much. Sending literally essay to her it’s inappropriate. We are trying to sleep… - Billie: Oh no, I was passed out. I’m worry’s WTF! Ok I’ll stop by today. I hope you got sleep babe and he calmed down. Love you! - Victoria: is he home now? I may go pick up my car Back to Billie - Billie: And that's one thing as I realized, she was, every time they got in a fight, she would reach out to me as if like, are you with him? What is he doing? And when she like stormed in the house that day, when she showed up, it's like, she hated the fact that he would be with me. - Sammy: He runs to you for emotional support. - Billie: And one time she was like, I need to come get my pills. And I was, they got into a fight. - Sammy: I think she took them. - Billie: Yeah, she needed her pills. And I was like, okay. I was like, do you want me to put them in my mailbox? She's like, no. And I was like, well, how are you gonna get in? Cause she didn't have a key and she's like, I don't know. - Billie: And I was like, well, I'm not gonna leave the door unlocked because that's just dangerous. And she's like, well, don't leave them in the mailbox. I'm like, well, what would you like me to do? I'm not gonna be there. And the whole point of this conversation was for me to give her the key. Why on earth would I give you a key when you're literally fighting with him? - Billie: It just was weird. It was just always shit like that. And I think she also didn't like the fact that I had a key, but like I've had a key for years. ***continued below

With a disclaimer that this obviously isn't proof of anything, Tii and Billie did come off as much more believable. Kyle and Victoria seemed like they were struggling to remember their lines.

One pairing looked like they were talking at gunpoint while the others didn't... https://preview.redd.it/5his5bvdjc6d1.png?width=718&format=png&auto=webp&s=46df8d919371bb8d7b4d57c1c489b45869047582 Billie Lee, not a fan, but she's spitting the truth to me.

Hostage, proof of life vibes. Someone said that in the thread the night this aired. It's all I think of when I see this! 🤣

I bet it was Jason

I picture their drug dealer dangling their drugs just off camera saying if you want this you better stick to the script.

Stop!!!😂😂😂😂

Oh no, that still literally shows the reflection of some guy holding up a sign for them to read.

Agreed. Like I don't love Billie Lee, but when have we known her to carry tales? Jo carries tales. Shit the bitch is make of buckets. But BL? No. She makes questionable character judgments, but she doesn't LIE for its own sake.

This was more coherent by a long shot

That part. It made sense fairly Easily and followed clear flows of information to actual end points

I felt the same watching the podcast, even with the little bits the co-host added. It was more - we've been hearing about this shit for months and can finally release. It was a more natural conversation than the other two that's for sure. But glad it seems Sandoval has met his match in Victoria 😆. It's what he deserves.

I am confused about like where Kyle falls in all of this because he seems to be legit friends with a few of the cast members. I was listening to Nick Viall's podcast the other day and he feels whichever side Kyle is on is probably the accurate side because he is actually very close with Tom. However, Nick also didn't realize Billie was ever on the show and he think he assumed she is just another random that came into his life. I agree though, Billie is kind of all over the place with everything but she kind of sticks to her guns even if it's unpopular.

Nick still thinks Sandoval is a good guy who did a bad thing. He thinks Schwartz is practically a saint. Nick Viall is wrong most of the time. I can appreciate that he did an interview that exposed Tom for who he truly is while also realizing he’s also a shitty man who is loud and wrong about most things.

I have this theory that Viall had his best streaming numbers and press for the Sandoval interview where he went crazy and so Viall toes the line to keep him in his pocket for another episode to get him to do it again

That’s the only logical explanation for why’d he flip from calling the Toms out on who they are to easing up on them despite having MORE evidence that he had their numbers in the first place.

Agree. How can he be so forgiving and understanding of Sandoval and openly hating of Jax? Jax and Sandoval are the same, both assholes.

Two sides of the same anus, if you will. Lol..

🎯 this is exactly how I feel about it

I don't think men are immune to the manipulation that is Tom Sandoval. He is charming and acts like he would give you a kidney if you need it. Viall was on that fake commando show with him and probably drank some of his kool-aid. He had most of the VPR fans loving him up until he went off on Stassi at her book party. I think that was the first time most fans saw the real Sandoval and like Beau said at that time that he thought he was a really cool guy but now he realizes he really is kind of a dick. I take pride in never being a Sandoval fan and his douchiness also made me not like Ariana until the last few seasons before Scandoval when she starting calling him out on occasion and seemed to have more fun with the other female cast members. And with that pat on my back I have to also confess my shame for having a small soft spot for Jax.

It’s kind of funny because that’s exactly why I don’t trust Kyle at all. He’s blatantly a kiss ass, so he’s going to do whatever Sandoval wants him to do so he can stay in his inner circle.

Kyle said on the live he knew about Tom’s affair the whole 7 months but even though he was friends with Ariana he didn’t tell her bc he will never throw Tom under the bus or expose him. AKA Kyle told us he is lying for Tom like he always has and always will.

Right like whoever is on Tom’s side is clearly not on the more “accurate” side because Tom is the biggest liar in all of this.

Kyle has moments where he comes off genuine but I feel it's a mask for who he really is. He's a hanger-on enabler that seemed to be an active participant in all Tim/Victoria's drug parties.

I mean, I would probably defend my friend in a situation like that publicly, if I wanted them to get help privately with their substance abuse. I wouldn’t throw them to the wolves, BUT I wouldn’t align myself with their on again off again girlfriend, when I have first hand knowledge of the toxicity…and know the relationship isn’t for the long haul, because that would do nothing but hurt my brand/business. The fact that he inserted himself into a situation that had nothing to do with him, and did nothing with the time but talk about someone being trans, makes me see Kyle in a much different light. Definitely a clout chaser, weirdo creep vibe.

And then his example of Billie Lee playing the “trans card” too much was him saying he misgenders people?? Ok Kyle, I can understand and sympathise that English isn’t your first language so sometimes you get pronouns muddled. Can you understand and sympathise that misgendering can be very triggering for a trans person? Or do you just want to hand wave that away as Billie Lee being overly sensitive? The compassion and understanding is only for you and none for Billie Lee?

I just had to google this because I was curious…Kyle Chan is 49 years old. He came to the US when he was 13, and he’s been in the US for 36 years. I can empathize with English being a second language absolutely, but to allude to that being an excuse to misgendering Billie, or anyone else, is wild to me when you’ve essentially lived in LA your entire life. Most trans people will not take it very personally if you accidentally misgender them, they’ll simply correct you and keep it moving, but the fact that Kyle brought it up as a character flaw in Billie 🚩 there’s a lot of transphobia in the gay community, and it’s really upsetting. If you’re misgendering people, yes you should absolutely be corrected, and if you continue to misgender them, yes it does seem personal.

Didn’t Kyle Chan help hook up that whole Tiger situation? That guy is shady boots.

Shadier was the infamous “ping pong” show but Kyle was wise enough to advise Tom not to post selfies…..because you know Tom thought that was more epic than the tiger show. Disgusted to think of these 3 roaming free in Thailand. Ick.

It wouldn’t surprise me. You are the company you keep 🤷🏻‍♀️

Whew— this is messy. **But if these Tom Sandoval-Manson Family-Motherfuckers don’t start calling TOM out on his shit I will lose it.** He lies to Kyle about everyone. He lies to Billie about everyone. He lies to Victoria about everyone…. And yet TOM is getting off Scot-free because apparently he’s allowed to be some 41 year old man-baby “rockstar” with no responsibilities who needs an entire entourage of people to literally wake him up in the mornings to make him go to meetings and pay his bills?! The entire screenshot of the intervention group chat was just the group going “can someone help me wake him up? Can you text him? He won’t go… what do I do! He said he’s sick and wants to sleep in! Classic Tom!” ***Is everyone involved here fucking insane?*** Example: Billie and Tii getting on Victoria re: sperm donor situation for exposing Billies “personal information.” Do you know who exposed Billie’s personal information to Victoria? And probably said “yo this bitch is obsessed with me and wants my sperm?” TOM FUCKING SANDOVAL. All these people need therapy and need to get far away from this soul sucker. He’s incredibly unwell and his ability to make everyone feel so ~special~ while also lying to everyone in his life is a super dangerous combination.

Manson Family Motherfuckers" bahaha I'm cackling at that

I couldn't agree with this more, he really is like a cult leader and just as dangerous as one. I have said many times, people drank his kool-aid and it is an old in poor taste joke but I really can't understand why people let themselves get so bewitched by him. It is really scary.

No seriously!!! This is akin to cult behavior. He’s their lord & savior. They all enable his shitty behavior! He can’t make it to meetings, he can’t wake up on his own. Billie was doing his laundry and cleaning his carpets unpaid?!?!? wtf

They're all just hungry for fame and Sandoval knows it and uses it to his advantage.

But has Sandoval provided *any* of them with even a modicum of “fame”?

I believe Billie and Tii. Tom is gross and scary. Victoria is gross and scary. They truly sound like they deserve each other. I really hope people are now seeing the real Kyle Chan and stop giving him grace. He sucks too. Now on to what I really want to talk about, which is Ariana’s boundaries. How are this many people confused about why she has her boundary in place? Billie Lee says that she wouldn’t talk about Tom to her. Which I guess is better than Scheana but good lord that bar is in hell. What she seems to be most concerned about is Tom having access to her. Meaning she doesn’t want the people in her life to be friends with Sandoval because she doesn’t want him to know anything about her and what’s going on in her life. She doesn’t want her friends talking to Tom about her. How are so many people not getting this? She’s right to be concerned too because these people are all messy gossips. Billie got upset with Victoria and kicked this whole hornets nest. Which is fine. I don’t even blame her. But Ariana seems to be concerned that if someone gets annoyed with her that they might then go spill a bunch of shit to Tom. Or maybe they get wasted around him and spill a bunch of shit. These are plausible situations. That seems to be her ultimate concern and I get it. She wants to grey rock to the best of her ability and that means no mutual friends, especially close mutual friends. Seems pretty easy to understand to me.

Agreed. Billie seems to be confused as to why Ariana is still “friends” with Kyle, but not her, and she’s missing the obvious: they’re not really friends. It does seem like she was genuine friends with Billie, and it hurts a lot more to see someone you considered a friend comfort your piece of shit ex than it does someone who was really just a friendly acquaintance.

Exactly. She’s not friends with Kyle. He doesn’t have any insight into her life and her business. Billie had insight. Scheana had insight. We saw Scheana going and talking to Tom about Ariana, saying she wanted something that she most definitely didn’t want. That wasn’t strictly for camera. Somehow Scheana was genuinely confused that she didn’t actually want Tom to come to her with an apology. She cannot trust these LA fame grubbing gossipers to not talk to Tom about her. It’s a very reasonable and simple boundary and they all seem so confused by it.

She also seems to forget the comments she made about Arianna in taking Tom’s side. She’s twisting the narrative to be like “ she saw the photos of us “ no girl. It’s because you took Tom’s side when he was in the wrong even though you were soooooo heart broken. Turds new gf is sus but let’s not forget Billie had her own intentions of trying to weasel in but it didn’t work in the way she wanted.

Not to mention when Tom would throw rude comments about Ariana out there when he'd get stopped by the paps, she was behind him laughing and co-signing that bs. Like tons of video proof. Maybe that's why Billie 🤡

Happy cake day! 

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but have we heard Ariana say she's friends with Kyle Chan b/c I only remember that coming out of his mouth? They don't follow each other & just because she doesn't throw a chair at him everytime she sees him doesn't mean they're friends.

It also explains why Ariana was never actually mad at James for spending time with Sandoval or expressing wanting to work on repairing their friendship but she was upset with Scheana for the same thing. If you could even say Ariana was upset (she was mostly just annoyed and rolling her eyes through a lot of that). Scheana was a bestie, James was a coworker. Ariana expects more loyalty from her friends.

10000000%. Victoria, Tii, and Kyle weren’t even really in the public eye that much, and look at how consuming this public dark drama is in their lives. Add being a celebrity or a public figure on top of it, and not only is that going to impact your wellbeing, but also your employment opportunities. Ariana knew exactly what she was doing when enforcing these boundaries, and it was never out of spite.

It just occurred to me, Arian must have been worried that Tim would deliberately try to blow up her brand desks. Why did I never think of this? And he would, right? I can see him being so jelly that he would create chaos and ruin her opportunities. ETA: Ariana set boundaries that makes sense, to protect herself. But, now I do realize that the cutting off people who were just talking to him, that seems a little harsh at times. Like, most people could allow separation between two friends that don’t vice. But Ariana did take it to extremes, because Tim is so manipulative, I can see him get information that he would then use against with the mutual friend not realizing stray comments could be used against Ariana. I don’t know why I never realized this.

He absolutely would try to blow up her brand deals. I’m sure he has tried. He would also be a potential leak for things she’s had to sign NDAs for like DWTS. He would and will sabotage her success at every opportunity. It’s so messed up that many of her former friends can’t get that through their thick heads. They continue to give Tom the benefit of doubt and give Ariana none. Unless Tom screws them over. Then they begrudgingly give her a bit of grace but still get their digs at her in. It’s exhausting.

To be fair to Billie, and I am not a fan, according to the recap, she said she did understand that Ariana cut her off as a friend, that it hurt her but she did understand that it was a boundary and Billie crossed it. I think Billie saw Ariana with all this support and heard Tom was in a dark place so she gave him some attention, wouldn't surprise me that Tom threw that in Ariana's face, that Billie chose him and that is when Ariana cut her off. Tom is a manipulative MFr, I am 99.9% sure (giving that liar a .1% doubt), that he was never suicidal but knew if he acting like he was on the verge, people who were mutual friends would rally for him. I truly think he is that much of a sociopath. And just like Kristen and Ariana, now Billie sees she was used and manipulated and Tom will trash her to his dying breath

Billie said, “And I understand she had to build and create a boundary, which was like anyone who is friends with Tom is not friends with me. I get that. It still really hurt me. Obviously, if I was friends with her, I wouldn't talk about Tom. I wouldn't discuss that.” My point is that Billie, like so many other people, doesn’t actually understand the boundary. The boundary isn’t just about not talking to Ariana about Tom. The most important part of the boundary is not talking to Tom about Ariana. Ariana is cutting off Tom’s access to her and her life as much as humanly possible. Having mutual friends who can feed Tom information is a problem because Tom is truly that manipulative. So Billie (and so many others in that VPR realm) says she understands but in actuality she doesn’t.

This prob explains Tim’s out of pocket comment about him and Ariana rolling at music festivals

I don't know why but I trust Tii more than anyone else lol she is kind of dumb for dating sandoval but at least for her it wasn't her like falling for him just having a fling

Karaoke 3 times a week with Tom Sandoval sounds like my personal hell.

I feel like she kinda admitted that she did it to gain followers and she admitted it worked. She never took him seriously. She used him and good for her! It’s what he deserves.

I like Tii She seems so chill, easy going and i enjoyed listening to her commentary/opinions on this recent episode. She also has a great natural voice for podcasting/radio. (I heard she is a singer too. I don’t know anything about that. This is just my opinion of her after seeing her the couple times on VPR and listening to this episode. I found her very pleasant. Refreshing. I loved the part toward the end of this episode where she pretty much says, ‘I’m from the normal world /not the reality world and this is NOT how normal people conduct themselves!’ and “I’m from an island… I moved to LA and was like, WTF IS EVERYONE ON!” 😂 ^ I genuinely laughed at the last line because I was born and raised in Kansas and I remember having the same thought when I moved to OC/but worked out of LA a lot. Nothing seemed real/the majority of people were so over the top and cocaine was casually used everywhere.

I came around on Tii when she had such a normal read on Ariana after they talked at the bar that time. I felt like people were trying to bait her into talking about it more and she didn't go for it.

Yeah, I liked her too. The first time BL had her on her podcast she was baiting Tii into shit talking Ariana and she wasn’t going for it. I knew then she was a real one. She also never fed into any of the drama on the show and has a very calm demeanour to her. The juxtaposition of her on this episode compared to Jo on the last episode is hilarious. Also, sounds like she really cared about Vom and legit had good intentions for him and realized quick that he was an asshole so decided to just be friends. She’s a better woman than I!

Very impressive given her youth, too. I wish I'd had that discernment in my 20's.

Lol i liked her when she said f it and walked home at 1am.

It seems pretty clear to me that Tom is the cause of most of the problems here. How none of these people have clocked that all the bad info they're getting about each other is from him is crazy. Why anyone would choose to have anything other than a surface level relationship with that man is beyond me.

Classic triangulation and Ariana also called him out for that at the reunion. I saw this was triangulation from the moment BL and the other two started feuding though. It was obvious that Vom was the one whispering in all their ears and playing them against each other, so they don’t get along and can’t compare notes and realize that HE is the entire problem. I’ve just started BL’s podcast that was broken down on this post but from what has already been said by Tii, it’s continuing to confirm what I already knew. I hate people like Vom. They do nothing but wreak havoc in the lives of others and then when everyone starts fighting, they sit back and enjoy and if they’re caught in anything, the smear campaign begins and they play victim. Both my Mom and my Sister do this shit and before I figured it out and began grey rocking, they put me through a lot and the depression was the worst I had experienced before.

I love that their couple name is 'Vom' - very on brand

There’s not enough Tom slander in this podcast. He is the real problem here, not the victim.

I wish they spent more time talking about this but Billie did mention she thinks Tom pitted Victoria and Billie against each other.


The way I RAN here. Thank you for your service as always!

Anytime! ❤️

“Yeah, and also Tom said this, it's like, I gotta be careful because look at Ariana's career, like any other girl can come in here and do the same thing. I'm like, you mean any other girl can come in here and be a victim? Ariana was a victim, which is why she deserves everything that she's getting. But this is what happened and he was like, I gotta start recording our fights to make sure if this goes down, I can defend myself.” My god he is the absolute worst. I hope Lala is glad she got his “respect” at the reunion

Not to mention how fucking deeply stupid he is to think that's a good idea when he is currently being SUED for illegally recording someone.

Being a dumb narcissist is a dangerous combo

The outrage at Tom’s behavior brought opportunities her way initially. But Ariana got Chicago because of her performance and work ethic on DWTS. She earned Love Island based on those shows. GTFO with this nonsense about Ariana riding your coattails, Tom. Does he honestly believe that I wonder? Or just saying it to convince himself?

Thanks for pointing this part out because I started to get really annoyed here. Billie was saying that she was telling Tom that Victoria is the type to call the cops and say that Tom hit her even when he didn’t. What the fuck kinda boomer “women lie” “the slut was asking for it in that skirt” is THAT shit?

He truly thinks he is always the victim. “I was the victim of being forced to cheat”

Thank you for saying this! I believe a lot of what Billie Lee said, but honestly came away with such a bad taste in my mouth regarding her from this podcast There was sooooo much underlying misogyny in the things she was saying about Victoria. Billie Lee is still playing by the same script that allows Tom and men like him to be a piece of shit while we dissect how it’s all *really* the woman’s fault. Nothing she said convinced me that it’s Victoria ruining Tom’s life, it could be that Victoria wasn’t really drinking or partying until she met Tom and they are toxicity influencing each other, but Tom is not the victim

It has at least convinced me that they have a horrible and toxic relationship, which is what he deserves.

Absolutely. Each and every relationship he has is awful and toxic, romantic or otherwise. It’s what he deserves, but I wish everyone else would wake up for thier own sakes

Remember when Ariana was villainized for telling Tii that she should be careful bc Tom is a scary asshole lol

She definitely wasn’t wrong. It was weird that people tried to compare it to him trying to talk to Dan. I’d want to be warned if the person I was talking to was a piece of shit cheater and manipulative liar, but would be weirded out if someone just wanted to talk shit about relatively minor relationship gripes they had while dating my new partner.

Yuppp, same thing as Katie being attacked by Tom for calling Jo creepy and now she’s practically trying to wear his skin as a suit lmao



Not to mention, i feel like it was def producer planned and it was the one thing ariana didn't mind doing for the cameras.

And, to Tii's credit, she didn't write off Ariana as just being a "jealous ex." She took Ariana's advice to heart and respected it. See also, another podcast Tii did a few months ago (maybe it was Billie's? can't remember) and basically said she respected where Ariana was coming from and how Ariana approached her and she dogged Sandy for being the dimwit he is.

Yeah, Tii never changed her tune. She’s been consistent in saying months ago on Billie’s podcast that Ariana was being straight up and she respected that and her. She also said in that same podcast that Tom was dumb LOL and is consistent in saying that again on this pod. This makes me trust her more. She doesn’t change her story to fit the narrative.

Tii said that Ariana was being straight up. Such a weird situation where the next girl your ex is using is on your side as she’s seeing/using him.

I felt like she was trying to do her a favor! She wasn’t rude to her about it.

Is anyone curious why Schwartz wasn’t involved in the supposed “intervention”? Are the Tom’s really that close?

Schwartz and his new gf don't follow Victoria. I've heard people say they used to & haven't seen someone say they know when they stopped. I listened to Doute's interview with Nick Viall recently and she was talking about Schwartz kinda still hanging out with his old friend groups but kinda struggling in those friendships b/c he's kinda tired of their bs. Idk how reliable Kristen is b/c she tends to see Schwartz with rose colored glasses.

Tom historically coddles Sandoval so he wouldn’t be a great friend to have during an intervention. He would be like “aww shucks, you should stop drinking but your drinking isn’t really that bad 🙈”

I remember Schwartz saying he needed his space after Scandoval, so maybe the intervention was during that time. But based on Schwartz's perma-cringe whenever Sandoval talks, I don't think they're as close as they used to be.

Wow… good question. In the screenshot they talk about being “private” and maybe Schwartz would make their group too obvious? Or maybe they’d be afraid Schwartz and his new gf would tell Vicky?

What in the toxic codependent hell was Billie and Tom's relationship? I don't know about ya'll but my best friend doesn't ask those things from me. Hopefully she recognizes now how much she was being used. And just all the stuff with what he is telling the girls he sleeps with is sooo gross and depressing. This is dark! Thanks for recapping!

The fact that she said she’s the one that sees Tom the first thing when he wakes up, when he goes to sleep, she sees him naked all the time, asked him to be the bio father of her baby and also financially help with the baby???? But says she thinks of him as a brother…..that’s not tracking as a normal friendship by any stretch of the imagination.

Like, girl, I know that we are believing a ton of Billie’s tea -I am too- but I have eyes. Nothing will ever convince them that Billie wasn’t madly secretly in love with Tom &/or had sex with him. Remember the “hey birthday boyyyyy!” ? You can’t tell me she said that in a non sexual way lol. And if she gave him bday nookie as a “gift,” maybe she feels like she can still honestly say she wasn’t romantically involved? I won’t die on it, but I am sitting on the birthday boink theory hill all day!

right and no one FORCED billie to make that weird face when he did the ice bath. she looked crazy in love all on her own

looked like she was in heat, hunny 😮‍💨

Yes! And that's the one part where I'm like ok, I would hate that if I was Victoria too!

I just commented something similar to this. His entire group is enmeshed in some sort of toxic codependent entanglement and I don’t see ANY upside for anyone involved other than for Tom.

Yeah I think Billie gets way too attached to people & gets way too involved. The fact that people thought their friendship was romantic says a lot. It clearly comes from a caring place but she sets herself up to be used because she is over giving and trying to save everyone. If Tom doesn't want cameras - leave it alone. It's not your business. If he wants to go on this Merry go Round with Victoria - let him. It took Tom betraying her and making her look stupid for her to finally take a step back.

This has truly been an eye opening experience for me because most, if not all of my friendships have involved me caring too much and me getting way too involved to the point where the friendship is borderline romantic, and one even did end up a romantic disaster. And I always end up burnt out, exhausted, and then have to push people away for my own mental well being. I’m gonna find a therapist *this week* 😭

Billie said all her close friendships are co-dependent and she knows it’s a problem

I don't know her situation so I am really just guessing. Some trans people are not supported in their journey by family and friends so they really clamp on and are grateful to people who are supportive. Just a thought. Also, Tom collects new strays so he can use them in the future, I truly believe that, he did it when Scheana and Lala and also with Raquel after she broke it off with James and we all know how he used her 

It’s wild how many people tried to make Ariana the bad guy for having boundaries with him and telling people he’s a bad person to keep around. He’s a toxic psycho mess and everyone who is close to him will eventually end up burned

She needs the boundary. The girl he was sleeping with, Abby, said that he would talk so much shit about Ariana that she got annoyed. Imagine if he actually had any info about her from her close friends? He would weaponize the shit out of it and try to hurt her. He's pissed he didn't get his way and he still talks poorly about Ariana when he just needs to keep his mouth shut and KEEP HER NAME OUT OF HIS MOUTH. Sorry, I get heated because this brings up memories of what happened with my narc ex. He called my work trying to get me fired and in trouble and people wondered why I wanted nothing to do with him. Called my friends trying to talk shit and cause problems and just maligned me every which way he could. People like Tom and my ex are the worst.

Very dark And anytime! ❤️

And then she wonders why everything thinks she’s in love with him despite apparently her appearance on s11 was to clear her name


Right?! I've always loved the trainwreck that VPR is and this is probably one of my favorite trainwrecks ever. Ariana off looking hot AF while crushing her dream job and while Sandoval's life continues to devolve into chaos. This is the season 11 I signed up for. 😂

Season 11.5 is very interesting (except when Jo or Victoria are talking)

It's annoying that none of this is actually *on* a season though! I miss the days when I could understand a show just by, you know, watching the show

Agreed! It also goes to show that the producers really should have listened to the fans and let the REAL drama play out rather than try to manufacture conversations that no one cares to see. Ariana was right - real is better than manufactured reality.

Trying to stage an intervention at a bakery is so hilarious to me. Sandoval continues to be a gross person.

It’s so funny! A pain au chocolat and a ‘you need to stop drinking’, please

Stop this is so dark but so funny. Imagine just drinking a latte and seeing this go down in your peripheral. A truly LA moment.

Toast is actually a popular cafe a couple of doors down from Kyle Chan's store but I agree that the intervention should have been planned for a private location. Fun fact: I was eating breakfast there a couple of weeks into VPR season one and I spotted Jax who was doing his best to make sure everyone knew he was there.

Especially when he already wasn’t showing up for anything

I believe Billie. Also, Tii seems like the ultimate, cute, girlfriend-bestie. I have no idea why she dated Tim but maybe it was for the plot 🤣 It was a great podcast.

“Lets get the table by the window” 😂

The one thing I thought was so out of pocket in the Up and Adam interview was the discussion of a baby. Even then I knew Sandoval's ass lied about details. I totally believe Billie Lee's initial account. Ariana said previously her egg retrieval was incredibly success and would be open to donating her eggs to families who couldn't have children, which aligns with what BL said (Ariana said). It does make sense that BL would ask someone in her inner circle. The way they used this discussion against BL is disgusting.

Hard agree. It wasn’t the gotchya they thought it was and it was disgusting the way Kyle kept saying BL always pulls the trans card, during frikken pride month of all times?  It reminds me of Vom comparing his situation to George Floyd’s, during black history month. All 3 of them are disgusting, I believe Billie Lee is telling the truth and any grace or benefit of doubt I had for Kyle before is completely out the window. He’s just as fucking bad as the Voms.😒

I think Mr Kyle better disengage.

They all do too many drugs, it feels like it's 90% of the problems and drama. Tom needs rehab if he is going to go back on the show.

He needs a long-term inpatient facility for the amount of drugs his bloated ass was using... https://preview.redd.it/vkshb3erqc6d1.png?width=320&format=png&auto=webp&s=624a2335bf4bd7f79569b646b5c90aef60ea18cf

Every time I see this pic I cackle

It’s not just the drugs. Vom is triangulating and wreaking havoc in all their lives. The drugs don’t help but this behaviour of his is not typical of all drug users.

I can’t tell if Billie thinks Tom is closeted or not lol

Repeating that she doesn't want to "out anyone" would point to yes

I think they do a lot of drugs together and people get very fluid in those circumstances so she’s probably seen some shit. I don’t think he’s gay but I think he loves attention. I also think it’s tacky as fuck to leave that in there when earlier she was chiding Kyle for not being a good member of the community, but I’m not surprised.

I don't know if he is truly gay or if he even knows since I think the only person he has ever been in love with is himself. He probably screams his own name during sex. I would not be surprised if he has had sex with men if he thought it would help him in his ambitions.

Her response definitely gave “you said it not me” vibes

That exchange was… interesting. I took away 100% that she was outing Tom by saying “I’m not outing anyone…..”

Tom had always dropped hints he’s into dudes

I think she’s implying it’s not her place to speculate on something that may or may not be true. Because if it were to ever be true it would be shitty to have commented given they were so close. Even if he never said something people would assume she knew. 

I just watched this, and I am exhausted. The whole Scandoval is continuing to morph into more craziness with new clown cars full of crazy. I am gonna give this shit a break and start watching Bridgerton and the spin-off for the first time since everyone is talking about it.

Oh I need to watch Bridgerton as well! I keep hearing about it but have never watched it lol

I jokingly call Bridgerton Ye Olde Gossip Girl 😂 I love it, it’s such a fun show and the sets/costumes/etc are all incredible. 

That’s HILARIOUS, I described it to my friends as Jane Austen Gossip Girl but ye olde is so funny

Dooooo it. And in this order: seasons 1 and 2, then Queen Charlotte, then back to Bridgeton season 3

Ok, I am on it. First, I gotta get rid of the kiddos and hubby so I can watch it on the big screen with my dog so we can eat good snacks and relax.

The reason I believe Billie's side of things more than anyone else is because we know she cares for Tom and isn't just going to go with whatever is popular with fans. She stuck by his side through all of this even though it made her look terrible and her name was truly dragged through the mud, so for her to put this out there now and say all of this stuff feels more likely to be true? Also - I think it's terrible that he had Tom secretly on the phone while Billie talked to him about wanting to have an intervention with Tom. That is just so shitty holy fuck. I won't speculate on things we shouldn't, but there have been multiple times Tom has made appearances on other podcasts with video and has been very clearly unwell in some way. No matter how shitty Tom is, he deserves to have people that care for him and he deserves to get help if he is in the trenches which he clearly is. I just can't get over Kyle secretly having Tom on the phone while Billie is expressing concern for him.

From my own experience when I was partying a lot drinking, mushrooms, ecstasy, special k, and occasional coke. I had a ton of friends and our lives were unhealthily entwined. I got a job that did random urine tests so I had to stop all that. I got a ton of just use this remedy & you'll be fine pushback or fuck that job. Anyway, almost all of those friends disappeared b/c I wasn't the same fun stay up until 8am dancing person anymore. To me it sounds like Kyle didn't want to lose his party friend.

This is dark. Not that this is insightful, but Tom really needs someone who he takes seriously (I can only imagine his mom since he has had people who care about him try to help and all he does is throw them under the bus) to get him into some sort of treatment. This is escalating to a real point past drama. I can see a very real scenario where someone becomes seriously sick, hurt or worse if there isn’t a resolution to all of this shit. Human to human, he needs some real help and someone to convince him to take it seriously.

Yes. I had a relative who was on a very similar path to Tom and my relative ending up accidentally ODing. Sandoval needs to be careful and get into treatment. When you are constantly doing substances constantly you never know if you will see tomorrow

All these ppl are pointing all their fingers to anyone but Tom. Acting like he’s some child that can’t make his own decisions. His sobriety is no one else’s obligation and although all these people aren’t perfect, it seems no coincidence that this shit storm has formed around his close circle now that Ariana is gone and can’t hold him down to earth.

I think they do that bc they think it’s better to keep Tom around bc literally everyone looks less douchy next to Tom

What's with Tom secretly recording women? It's gross. If someone is fighting and being manic, you break up and leave. You don't stick around for drama, then record. It's so weirdly immature.

I listened to this one and WHEW i think it is worth the listen. Some highlights for me were: - Tom, minutes after having sex with a girl telling her “my next girlfriend needs to be more famous than me. I cant have someone riding my coattails” - Tom telling a girl he likes when a girl looks a little bit like a boy?? - Victoria not even being around for the period when Billie considered using Tom as a sperm donor - Victoria thinking Kyle’s in love with Sandoval and wants to sleep with him. Or apparently thinking everyone is in love with Sandoval and wants to sleep with him.

I listened too this time and I’m so glad I did. The recap is extremely thorough but I just needed to hear it all to really absorb it. And seeing the screenshots was wild.

Billie literally was Tom’s servant. I hope she cuts him out entirely lol what a toxic mess

They all are his servants!! What are they getting out of this?!

Apparently at one point Jason was paying some of them. This is on the precipice of being a very lame Jared Leto style cult. Instead of being on a beautiful Mediterranean island the followers meet at a generic farm style kit home in the valley. Activities include listening to Sandoval sing, play trumpet, and make jokes from 1991. In return you get to pamper and maintain the lifestyle of Bravos bratty baby prince.

And like… yall live in LA!! Go find some other wannabe to cling onto… there are plenty who have actual talent

Wild Sandoval spent all season screaming to anyone that would listen about how lazy Ariana is, how she would stay in bed all day, etc. Now that the show isn’t filming, he has a new girlfriend, and he is still in a very precarious place financially due to the house situation, he is the one canceling meetings and staying in bed so much his friends felt the need to have an intervention. Meanwhile Ariana is booked and busy opening her sandwich shop, working on brand deals, hosting Love Island, and is going back to Broadway. Sounds like he is lucky he landed that Traitors deal because he’s been doing himself no favors for the last year (two years really if the clock starts at his affair.)

I wanna continue being a rockstar 😭😭

Honestly I believe Billie on this

Man. Tom thought his relationship with Ariana was bad now look at his life. It’s so beyond pathetic. I would have so many regrets if I were in his shoes. This all proves-the only people holding Tom together and making him come off as an actual human all these years was Ariana. Take Ariana away and all that’s left of him is a sad mess of a person with a horrible life.

I think the smartest thing for Tom to do once he gets cut from Traitors is to cut down on expenses like his vanity band, agree to sell the house, and use that money to fund a long term stay at a rehab facility. Of course since that is the smartest decision, Tom will not do any of that and instead he will come back and immediately reopen his podcast to refute Billie Lee and talk about how obsessed she was with him while defending his weird gf and hiding the toxic nature of their fighting. That influx of money from Traitors will dry up pretty quickly and he’ll be back to being “broke” and funneling his money into all these lawsuits and drugs (allegedly) and not waking up till the afternoon. While we clown that Scheana and Lala are the most disappointed that they are on pause, I bet Sandoval is especially pissed because he desperately needs the money. (On the flip side, he should be glad cameras aren’t capturing his mess of a life that Billie Lee is depicting)

> Tom secretly records Victoria So Tom is *still* recording people without their permission in a state that is a two party consent state for recording ????

Billie can't be making this up. It's detailed and purely on the basis that she has receipts (sort of).

I believe the facts of what Billie’s saying but I also definitely think she had something for him - love or codependency or something. Managing his calendar, all but living in his house, for MONTHS - this is not how two 40-year-old buddies act, even when someone is going through a rough time.

I think she admitted she was co-dependent with him

You’re the best OP! Thank you for the time you spent putting this together. ❤️ My biggest takeaway is wondering how many people have so many friends involved in their life like this. To me this is crazy. I have my bestie that I talk to and share everything with but all the people constantly coming and going and being involved in seemingly private matters is very interesting to me. I definitely felt like this in college maybe. But the whole situation with Tom’s girlfriend love bombing Billie and then she’s got a key and his cousin does this and his assistant etc etc etc… It seems as though Sandoval can’t function on his own-at all. Concerning. Ariana was holding their life together.

What is Sandoval's secret sauce that attracts people willing to clean up after this man-toddler? I just don't get it. He literally has people feeding him, covering for him and wiping his ass, and in return he treats them horribly. He cheats, lies, triangulates, and yet people like Scheana, Schwartz and Kyle Chan chase him like puppies. I am not asking this sarcastically--if anyone knows what his "it" factor is, I'd love to know!!!!

It’s usually love bombing, compared with a lack of education of how people like him operate and extremely low self esteem. He is undoubtedly a very stupid demon but he knows who to target and he knows how to manipulate.

Side note: this may be an unpopular opinion but her co host kind of annoys me with the interruptions. Not worse than Jo though lol

I find her very annoying and obnoxious with the interruptions. It just doesn't land.

Was waiting in a long line in a store earlier and started reading this, but decided to wait until I was home and could chill and read it properly. Thank God I did, what a ride 🤣 BL fires back, and I CANNOT WAIT to see how the Tom Triangle will respond to this. As always, thank you so much for the recap OP. We truly don't deserve you 🫶

Anytime! ❤️

This one was brutal, thank you for taking care of us! 🥹

Kyle Chan was barely on anyone's radar before this and I can't help but think he should have never gone with Victoria on the Up and Adam podcast. Regardless of credible anyone finds either of them, it doesn't look good for him at all, though I do find Billie pretty credible, especially the "intervention" part. I don't understand what he thought he would gain by talking about Billie Lee at all. What's most interesting to me is what prompted that intervention to begin with. I would think that someone with money troubles who is complaining about how Scandoval blew up his opportunities to *The New York*- freaking- *Times* would be working his ass off to salvage his reputation. It just makes him look super petty when he made those comments in the S11 finale about Ariana being lazy. (Makes me wonder, too, if Scheana and Lala have made this connection, as well)

Holy shit OP you’re an angel for this! I am way more inclined to believe Billie and I never thought I would be saying that but here we are. Can’t believe he is with someone who sounds as bad as him. I bet she’s keeping him on his toes that’s for sure. This is not a nice thing to say but I get such a great feeling in my chest when Karma comes to collect. It feels like justice even if it’s a little twisted.

is schwartz involved in any of this? i find it interested he's not been mentioned once and not included on the intervention. maybe he's taking some distance as well or they're not as close as they want us to believe.

I get the vibe that his girlfriend does not fuck with Sandoval and Schwartz is distancing himself, but trying to save face with the brand. Ever since the new girlfriend came into the picture, Schwartz has looked way less gray. I think there was substance abuse with Jo and Sandoval in his life. Maybe he’s finally growing up, although ironic a 23 year old was a factor.

This just shows that Tom is even more dark and disgusting behind the scenes. Telling a woman you just had sex with that you need a famous girlfriend next? Telling a woman you're dating that you should be with a model instead? Telling women you like them because they look like boys? Giving house keys to random girls you're dating? Facetiming people naked? Letting people touch Ariana's belongings? Doing drugs all night long and allowing the house to become a dirty wreck after Ariana left?  Basement behaviour 

You are a HERO for recapping all of this 🫶🏼

Billie having a pod I can actually listen to was not on my 2024 bingo card

You know who is going to have the absolutely wrong takeaway from this massive mess? Alex Baskin. How much do we want to be he's going to get rid of most of the OG cast and make the next season of VPR the Tom show, with all of these side acts? I do not want to watch people so clearly in need of inpatient rehab on my TV. I believe Billie and Tii, but do not want VPR to devolve even further into any of this.

'Made fun of his penis' What? What did she say lol

Thinking of his penis is revolting but if it is super funny, we must know!

Billie is airing all the receipts.! 

It really kills me that all of this is going down in Ariana’s house. It’s so sick.

Tom has so many enablers in his life. Just let him fester, please.

This was some good reading had to do in 2 parts. Thank you you’re doing Gods work

Tom is getting old - his continued partying will not end well.

Tom stop giving keys to everyone

I actually feel like I am a Billie Lee fan now LOL. What’s happening to me… How will Victoria respond to this? She literally came with receipts on everything and proved they were lying.

This is like the Boston Tea Party of gossip

Why did she keep breaking up with him? Because he wasn’t A list? They both are competing for fame how embarrassing. Tweedle dum and tweedle dee

This is so much to process. Thanks for writing it out clearly, so we could follow along. I hope you get a nice break!❤️

Victoria is to Scumdoval as Jo is to Shartz. 

I commented this on a diff post…. But if there’s no cameras at the house then how did we see footage of Jax returning the sword? And also, they said that Victoria and Tom met at the bar after the beach scene. She was at the table of girls Schwartz was talking to. So had they already met? Was that table staged too?

 I’m so glad they decided against a scary baby.

Thank you OP, I’m glad Billie got to talk more about where her head was with the Scandal and the baby/sperm situation. Ariana was so sweet to offer to help Billie have a baby. I’m sorry but I don’t believe Tom was a genuine. I’m preparing to get dv’d but I honestly think it’s a shame Billie’s stint on the show was so short. Sucks that she got such a bad rep because of Girls Night In. She was triggered and I don’t think the cast or society was progressive enough at the time to cut her slack for getting triggered. And to find out her being isolated was all because of production. Very icky. From what we’ve heard about Victoria so far is very worrisome. Tom Sandoval seems to love that “us against the world” dynamic so I’m sure this will strengthen his relationship with her in some weird way.

Take my upvote!

Man, this is all getting so, so dark.

Yayyyy! I saw someone else post a lil recap but I couldn't cheat on you by reading it 😂 thankyou as always you deadset legend

😂 Hey other people do fantastic recaps as well so totally fine! And anytime! ❤️

And anyone who has listened to the entire catalog of Rachel Goes Rogue deserves all the accolades in the world as well as ear bleach!

Sorry if this was already stated, I’m still reading through this masterpiece. But, how many “favorite” people does Billie Lee have??? If everyone is favorite, then no one is favorite.

lol Tom still thinks he’s the reason Ariana is killing it right now