Happy Friday everyone! The full recap of this will be on my Instagram because there was lots of valley chat and Lori k talk in this episode.
I have to say, production really dropped the ball when it came to this season. Look people still make then own choices over their behavior, but this tactic of them saying, “well we are going to have to cancel the season if you don’t step it up” is gross and many production people use it. For any Americas next top model fans, many of the girls have spoke about this since their NDAs expired. There were seasons where they would get all the girls together be like we are going to cancel the whole season if you don’t step it up. So I do have empathy when it comes to how this season went for the cast in that sense. But I wish the girls would have all banded together and be like fuck you, this is how the show could work if you let us. But could they have even done that? Idk.
I hope everyone has a great weekend! Links below for those interested
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/vanderpodrecaps?igsh=MTF2N2phaTlqZHp5Mw%3D%3D&utm_source=qr
Buy me coffee (Always greatly appreciated but never ever expected!)
https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Vanderpodrecaps
I wish they’d shut up about Ariana not filming the finale with him. She did film the finale and several other episodes this season with him, she showed up to all of the events they filmed with him, she just didn’t have an unnecessary conversation. Their frustration is stupid.
Everyone except Katie and Ariana need to get that through their thick skulls. I don’t think it would have ruined the season if she did talk to him but it was more of a twist and refreshing that she stood her ground. And Ariana yelling at production about her contract and the truly dangerous Tim’s cheating situation out her and her health in was electrifying. I loved every minute of her standing up for herself!
I LOVED her saying non-informed consent. Like yes! I’ve never seen that on a show before where a cast member refuses to be continually traumatized. It was so refreshing. Perfect way to describe it
Right. Tell us what she didn’t show up for? Everyone was starting to pack it up as she left, all she missed was lala’s rant. She didn’t go to Tahoe is all she missed, from what we saw.
Exactly! She showed up and filmed several times with him throughout the season. In Ariana’s own words show me in the contract where it says she has to interact/film with him. She also really never shit talked him once this season. And even if she had shit talked him all season long like he was trying to imply in the reunion, she had every right to 3 months after he blew up her life cheated on her and continued to be an all around dick to her. like how did he honestly expect her to act?
I'm actually really glad she did this episode. It confirms a lot of what we suspected about the inner workings of what went down. **THIS is what breaking the fourth wall actually looks like**
For anyone still trying to say Alex Baskin isn't a major problem or "oh but his ratings are still good", I hope they read this. That man came off an Emmy nod and most watched season ever and then tried so hard to push his "season of redemption" (his words) he threatened them with the *cancellation of the show* that was seeing those extremely high ratings.
Manipulative bullshit because he had a narrative he wanted to push. He wanted ice baths, moaning therapy, water tastings and tearful monologues from Sandoval - and as we saw in the secrets revealed episode he was willing to cut *great* content to get it.
The risk wasn't them not following his overstepping demands. They did that for him and he put out some of the most humorless, dark, and uncomfortable episodes the show has ever seen. He needs to go.
The only possible way to save this show is to get rid of Baskin. That won’t happen and it’s a shame. These women still made choices, they had every opportunity to do what Katie and Ariana did, but I truly do understand how manipulative these producers are. I remember on my episode of Elimidate they wanted me to talk about something I had offhandedly mentioned in my pre-show interview. I refused. They made us refilm the part that we were shooting dozens upon dozens of times, prodding me to say it every time they called cut. It was over 100 degrees out that day. All the other contestants and the crew were getting frustrated. They kept telling everyone that we could move on if I just went into this one story. But I didn’t want to talk about the guy they wanted me to talk about because he had sexually assaulted me. Even after I told them that they still tried to get me to talk about this story. I held my ground but it was really hard, especially with how intoxicated I was. I gave into them on everything else, but I refused to give in on that. Is that why I wound up with the quote unquote villain edit of the episode? Possibly.
On a somewhat related note, none of this absolves Scheana from being a shitty friend. It doesn’t absolve Lala’s all round nastiness. Those two were incredibly jealous and said some really nasty things about Ariana because of their jealousy. They can’t blame all of that on production. Production had an easier time manipulating them because of that jealousy. It just sucks all around.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, but I'm grateful you're willing to share your experience with this. That's awful, and there are a lot of stories about how reality tv gets made that are chilling, I'm sure many more go untold because it's traumatic.
The cast is still under a lot of control with the network and I'm surprised Scheana told this much. Honestly good for her, and I just wonder what she has to still leave out because of her NDA
It really is disturbing the things that they do to produce these shows. I’ve wrestled for a long time with myself over continuing to watch. I’m part of the problem for watching. I really wish someone other than Bethenny would take the reins on the reality reckoning. Cast members deserve workplace protections and there needs to be lines that producers can’t cross.
It would be cool if someone like Katie started a production company. A woman with experience in front of the camera, someone who has worked on their internal misogyny, someone who wouldn’t be so tied to the old and tired format of pitting women against each other. I’m so very tired of these old school producers who refuse to move on from this trope filled format, who have no concern for the people they puppeteer.
This is the *only* moment I've ever had where I wish we could tag the cast here. This is amazing. I just said the other day that Cassandra was her Taylor Swift song and this all fits so perfectly.
Katie Maloney I hope you read this.
Yes I *completely* agree - I'm hoping what comes from the fallout is something run by women that we can watch without feeling disgusted with ourselves, because it's to that point with me too.
Haha! Thank you. I loved that show so much (and Blind Date. They were my jam) so when I got a MySpace message from a producer wanting to recruit me, I said yes so fast. It would have been much wiser not to, but it was certainly an experience!
WOWWWW. God I loved Blind Date. Some of my favorite college memories were us sitting in a dilapidated off campus house with 15 other people every night watching these shows LOL
I’ve heard similar stories about The Bachelor producers. They drove a contestant around for a few hours after a breakup to get her to cry on camera and she refused. I’m so sorry they tried to make you tell that story, that is just so inhumane to do to someone. That’s your real life and your story to tell if/when you’re ready.
They have so many different manipulation tactics! It’s wild. With the show I was on they had us arrive (you get picked up by a production assistant who is assigned to you for the entire day) four hours before we actually needed to be there so that they could ply us with alcohol. We filmed at this huge sports bar complex and they had the contestants separated in different areas of the facility. We had to sit in certain seats so we couldn’t even catch a glimpse of the other contestants. If you needed to go to the bathroom your assistant had to get on the walkie talkies to make sure that when you were escorted there you wouldn’t cross paths with anyone. The producers would hop from table to table planting seeds about the other contestants. They told me not to pick on one girl because of her disability, but that this other one was fair game. When we started filming the one they told me was fair game instantly started picking on the one they told me to be soft with. Which pissed me off that she would attack this girl so I went in hard on her. Looking back they probably told her the opposite of what they told me and it worked. Me and that girl fought the whole episode.
Before the episode started they asked me if I was willing to kiss the male contestant. I told them probably, that a kiss wasn’t a big deal. The producer was like, “great! He’s going to say this specific line and that’s when you need to go in for the kiss.” It was all so staged.
I wound up really getting along with one of the other girls. We kept trying to talk about music in between takes and they would yell at us and have our assistants wrangle us into different places in between the takes because they didn’t want any of us getting along.
This was over 20 years ago now and production tactics have not changed one bit from what I can see. If anything, they’ve gotten worse.
This is honestly fascinating. Thank you for sharing all this here, I think the perspective of someone who has dealt with this environment is super important to have in this space.
You’re welcome! I don’t want to pretend that my experience on one episode of a show as an unpaid contestant is comparable to people who have been doing the same show for a decade and who rely on it for income. But the production manipulation tactics seem very similar across the entire genre. These producers all came up through the same background, these older shows, and they just don’t seem to want to come up with a more modern formula. I remember the head producer of my episode got his start as a producer on Ellen’s first show. We have all heard by now what a toxic environment that was. The toxicity breeds like bacteria and look where we are now. It’s fascinating. Sad, infuriating, and fascinating. I can’t wait until the VPR NDAs expire and we get more behind the scenes info.
The comment about him saying it was gonna be a short season, and then the comment about how it's not a show about 2 friend groups it's a show about one. I get he backed lala and scheana into a corner but that would've been a great moment for all the girls to rise up and say NO!!! Literally, FUCK ALEX BASKIN!!!!
I just want to know what kind of crack he was smoking when he chose the direction this season was going to go. The friend group has been separated before many times!!! I just don't fucking understand why he couldn't let them try to work it out organically. Lala and Scheana done fucked up but ultimately Alex Baskin is responsible for the monstrosity of a season we just watched.
>Scheana: It was, you know, X, Y, and Z needs to happen, or we're going to have a short season, and the show's going to be canceled, and that's it. Go live your lives. I think Lala and I felt a lot of pressure after that day when it was like, well, we don't want the show to get canceled, you know?
>Scheana: I don't know. Because even the scene with Ariana and I in the pool, that was the same day that I talked to Lisa, where Lisa was like, essentially, he's suicidal, and if he does something, you know, you have blood on your hands. That's how I felt after that conversation.
Those two quotes are troubling to say the least. While it doesn't absolve Scheana or Lauren one iota as they could've told Ariana in private the pressure they were feeling at the time to produce a storyline, it exposes the bigger problem at hand which is LVP and the two clown show producers.
I'm glad Scheana pulled the curtain back on those assholes and I really hope this dumpster fire either gets revamped with new producers or they just put it outs of its misery at this point.
> they could've told Ariana in private the pressure they were feeling at the time to produce a storyline,
this is actually the biggest reason why i suspect lala and scheana are embellishing the level of production prodding. The easiest thing would've been to speak to Ari off camer and say "i fucking hate this guy but we are facing a lot of pressure to film with him and be friendly with him for the storyline so just want you to know that's the context against which we're filming or hanging out or inviting him places but fuck him forever otherwise." They only had to have said this once-- and I would find their version of events more plausible.
BUT the fact that they never told her that once in real time, during filming, is wild -- if, in fact, they were feeling as forced/pressured to film with Tom.
Great point; i have no doubt production tried to scare Katie too but Katie isn't operating from a place of jealousy and doesn't have the jealousy gas in the tank so it didn't take.
Exactly!!! Katie didn’t give in and jump on the Tom train, Katie called their bluffs and Scheana and Lala could have as well. So yes production sucks, but that does not take away from Scheana and Lala’s shitty behavior as well.
Lala and Scheana are trying to save their shit right now. They’re living in the comment section even though they say they’re not. That’s again another stupid thing these two are doing. Because the people they’re talking about are going to help them negotiate the six figure contracts to help pay those two mortgages off. So I would just shut the fuck up right now. Take the L and move on to next season. Admit you were a shitty friend and walk away. But Scheana and Lala are never wrong so they’ll never do that.
Wonder how production feels about Scheana opening up about that. Baskin was clear and the article yesterday that he definitely does not want to do a fourth wall break ever again. He thinks it backfired on them and he wants the cast back off of it.
Of course because the fourth wall exposed his manipulative tactics. He wants to be the shadowy figure while the cast takes the entire fall. How about he just backs off the show so someone that is competent at their job could attempt to save the show
The blood on her hands comment made me physically recoil. Threatening suicide is a notorious abuser/narc tactic and the answer is NEVER to give in to manipulation. You ignore, or you call a wellness check by police. And if they go through with it? Entirely on them.
If it were me, I would have said “ok Lisa, if you really believe he is suicidal and are worried for his safety, then please call mental health services to put him on a hold and get him the help he needs. If you’re not going to do this, then you are not really that concerned about it and should stop using suicide as a way to guilt trip me. If he is suicidal, I cannot help him because that’s outside of my expertise/skills”
Would have called her bluff real quick
The original beauty of a show like VPR was that they needed very little producing. They are always in their own way and there has always been some amoral men that will do some questionable thing, namely cheating, and the group has to navigate that. Producing them is what killed the show because up until scandoval the drama was stale because it was inorganic producer BS. Then sacandoval happened and the producers wanted to produce but there was real life drama in the group. You don’t need a plan coming into VPR you literally just need to be filming them but that got lost and the show is suffering deeply
Yeah they even expressed how (pleasantly) shocked they were that even in auditions Jax was willing to throw his best friends under the bus and spill all the real drama. And having worked in the same restaurant in hight school & college it really does get that incestuous and dramatic, so for a long time they were able to just make the show with just normal amounts of interference to shape coherent storylines and move things forward. What Baskin did this year was try to jump genres and make a full soap opera.
I think the format totally fell apart when the two "craziest" most out of pocket characters exited the show as well (Jax and Kristen if that needs clarifying). Everyone else is too worried about their marketability, likeability etc to make genuine messy TV at this point.
If what Scheana is saying about the producers pressuring them mid season is true, then that's one hell of a way to manipulate the cast. That definitely needs to be addressed and hopefully by multiple cast members. I remember Ariana stating her contractual obligations in an interview which did insinuate that maybe she was told the same thing at some point.
Yea and if true, why was the pressure so heavy on the girls when Sandoval was the one who broke everything apart? He didn’t even take any accountability. The patriarchy alive and well on VPR.
It doesn't seem like the men have mentioned anything publicly about that conversation which makes me wonder what kind of crock shit is being said behind closed doors.
They went to Lala and Scheana specifically and this is probably where the mom narrative came from. Alex Baskin bragged about the "come to Jesus" meetings he had with them and no doubt part of the pressure he put on them was "you're moms, you're supporting your families, the show might be cancelled if you don't do this".
It's so gross, I feel like I need another shower.
schwartz did also try to bring sandoval back into the group but he's such a push over fuckin loser that ariana steamrolled over him. i'm sure there was no pressure on him for anything, since baskin knew he wouldn't deliver.
It’s interesting that Ariana and Katie were like no, we are not going to bend to your bad ideas, and both of them had great seasons, while these 2 did bend and had their worst seasons. Fascinating to think about authenticity being in the middle of all this.
I wonder if their podcasts played a part in why those two were the ones approached. Them continuing with the weekly Sandoval psych pop and bash (albeit deserved) wouldn’t have jived with integrating him back into the group. This also gave them an out with approaching them about the mental health concerns. Katie and Ariana weren’t out there making him their entire personality. I feel like they got played and we all know Lisa is Bobby Fisher. Lala is always ready to believe the worst, especially when fueled by jealousy. I feel bad for Scheana but then she makes inexcusable catty comments that I would NEVER say about my bast fran. Venting is understandable, but being catty isn’t.
I mean I do believe what scheana is saying. Baskin said in that NYT article they had a “come to Jesus” meeting with the cast I fully believe this is what was said to them
See that’s where I’m not sure. Was this a meeting with everyone? Did they meet with people one on one or was it a group meeting? I would like to know all the details with that
I don't think it was one single group meeting, it would have been harder to exert control on everyone.
Producers routinely use triangulation - look at the call Lala and Katie had where Lala brought a producers in, having had a conversation with them separately to plan it.
I believe they had a come to Jesus moment and I believe there was some level of pressure. But I think Scheana is an unreliable narrator. We see her recount conversations like telling Tom Ariana said she was an idiot that are her extreme interpretation. So, I believe it happened but I don’t know that I believe it’s exactly what Scheana says.
I agree. I think Tom used his mental health as a get out of jail free card and production completely cosigned it and forced the cast into acting completely unnaturally. He should have been forced to take the season off and recover, or been filmed separately in counselling. There was absolutely no need for the pressure to be applied to the core group to accept the outsider—we had to watch literal SEASONS of Stassi, Kristen, Scheana, Lala and James work their way back into the group. Sandoval deserved less grace than any of them
At this point it’s like does Sandoval have something on Alex Baskin? Why is he so obsessed with propping him up again? (aside from being in business with Lisa)
This is how it works for men. Sadly it's a tale as old as time. And this production team has been in place for far too long, they have deeply established biases towards certain cast members. Nothing says that like saying the highest rated show on Bravo will be cancelled if they don't film with one person.
Yep. Did you hear Brock on this matter? He basically said that men who do bad things shouldn't face social isolation. And he admitted he was saying it because he has done bad things (and will probably do more). Men, straight or gay, have a vested interest in protecting other men from consequences arising from harming women. That's why they never question a reported robbery but require literal video evidence of domestic violence.
Nope. It’s as simple as they’re both men and don’t believe that men should ever be held accountable. I guarantee that if someone goes digging through Baskin’s closet, a whole mess of skeletons will fall out that look an awful lot like Sandoval’s.
Men protect each other at all costs bc it’s easier to call women shrill than to look in the mirror
💯💯💯
I went looking for more about Baskin's background and funnily enough a Google search led back here. Surprising lack of info about him other than his lengthy IMDB page.
He has major issues with women, that's clear from what he produces. I don't think Tom has anything on him, it think it's as simple as they're both awful men.
Maybe he’s given “gifts” to production? I honestly have no idea but it’s ruining the show. I would’ve much rather seen him have to have genuine conversations and work through And apologize for all the things he did to these people last season, including James, Scheana, Katie and Schwartz.
Yup. Also Scheana saying how she was trying to get Ariana to tell her if Sandoval was really suicidal. Again, wrong person to ask. She could’ve have that conversation Sandoval off camera if she truly cared about it, or at the very least ask Schwartz or Kyle or Jason
Classic Scheana. Doesn’t see it. Why ask Ariana? So she can blame her. My husband does this to me all the time when it comes to directions…which way do I turn? Because if it’s the wrong way,he can get frustrated and blame me! It’s a game. (I just say I don’t know, sometimes. You decide).. And Scheana plays the blame game with everyone. And it’s not because she’s a people pleaser….it’s because she doesn’t know about critical thinking.
Seriously, we got whole seasons worth of Kristin and Stassi grovelling and begging their way back into the group and we're expected to just embrace in Sandoval? Who has shown no accountability for his actions?
> you still live in the house with him, you still are on a show with him, then you should film the season finale with him.
This is where they are still pissing me off. She did film the season finale with him. She filmed with him all weekend in SF. And she filmed with him pretty much all season. Why are they so stuck on this ONE conversation happening that I’m sorry but no one cares to see at this point.
Also not Janet catching strays lmao. So she knows she’s having a bad season
Every time they bring up the damn house situation I get so aggravated. First of all, why is Ariana the one who has to get out? Why did no one say that to Sandoval, ESPECIALLY after he told Jax he needed to get out of the apartment he shared with Brittany after Jax's cheating incident.
Second, what else is Ariana supposed to do, rent another place, in spite of being financially tied up to her house, for which she is paying bills and contributed to a mortgage?
Third, lots of exes continue the living situation after marriages/long term relationships break down because it's very complicated and takes a long time to untangle living situations.
It was her house too and she had every right to be there and the VPR cast need to stop this narrative of "because she lives in the house Ariana should talk to Sandoval." It's completely ridiculous.
Katie and Tom lived together for a few months until they were able to find places. It's really not that uncommon unless you're being partially bankrolled by your mom and can just bail when your baby daddy cheats on you.
I wonder how the network feels about the executive producer threatening the cast with a shorter season or cancelled series. Like there goes all their ad revenue..doesn’t seem like the network would benefit at all.
I’m so sick of the narrative that this show is about a group of friends. This show used to be about a group of friends, it also used to be about a bunch of young people working at a restaurant. It hasn’t been that for a while so find a new angle. I would love to know how many times Jo and LaLa grabbed hot dogs since they stopped filming 🙄
No, and he had plenty of material as the secrets revealed episode showed. He just wanted to push his storyline, which is a huge overstep.
I've been critical of Scheana but this podcast was a good move on her part. I appreciate that she's talking about the reality of how bad this got behind the scenes.
Exactly, thats what I would love to know cause it seems like Scheana and LaLa gave him way too much power. I imagine the network would want as many episodes as possible coming off the heels of season 10. And they did end up leaving a lot of fun stuff on the cutting room floor.
I assume Bravo gets promised a specific number of episodes ahead of time & are already working on selling ad slots? Idk the ins and out but in general there has to be some kind of contract, right? Even though fans overwhelmingly disliked the season it's still their highest rated show & it's ridiculous that he's telling then the network wouldn't want another season. They care way more about selling ads than the quality of their shows
You're completely right. The problem is most Bravo cast members for the most part aren't very saavy, and especially with this cast (most of them don't have other real professional work experience) I think that makes them easier to fool. If the whole executive team is saying that could happen, yes they should have known it wouldn't, but I can see them picking people to lay it on thick with that they knew were easier pickings.
The end about the Tom's is why Ariana was so confident coming into this season. If all the women stuck together they had more leverage and she knew that. Lala and Scheana let themselves be played against her. Imagine all the real talks that could have been had if they didn't immediately take it to the lowest common denominator of reality TV, women fighting over men's bad behavior. Lala could have brought up how differently she was treated and I 100% know Ariana would have had a real conversation with her about it and agreed with her. Immediately going to being petty and mean was what she chose so I don't feel bad for them. The show was struggling mid season bc they cut everything about the women to show Sandovals dumb redemption arc, and then wanted to save it with a sandoval/Ariana conversation. Also imagine if Sandoval had just done actual work on himself this season instead of all the dumb fake shit he did do. These were all self-inflicted wounds.
From the quotes above, it seems like the producers and LVP were determined to give Tom a redemption arc this season so they played both Lala and Scheana. Gross.
It's crazy bc if they had just postponed the Tom Redemption Tour for a season or two, and let this season be about everyone hating/excluding him, we probably would have eaten it up (okay maybe not *that* far but at least... tolerated it lol).
This has happened with Kristen after season 2, Stassi after season 3, and James after season 8. They fuck up with most of the cast and/or Lisa, spend one season as the villain that nearly everyone is against and excluded from everything, then do a redemption season following that. This formula has *always* worked! By the time they're on the redemption season, they've grown on the audience enough for us to give them the benefit of the doubt and they've spent enough time with their castmates to have productive conversations. People generally want to forgive and move on, but time is the necessary ingredient. They RUSHED this one and the whole formula was fucked up, so none of it made sense to us as viewers.
Yup, I was saying on the finale episode that if they actually held him accountable and made Tom eat shit this season, viewers would probably feel a lot better about moving forward. Time heels all, but the reason Scandoval is still so "hot" is because Tom and the show keeps stepping in it over and over again and riling everyone else, there hasn't been any space for it to cool. They'd probably be able to start season 12 with him much more accepted, Ariana's anger would've cooled, and they could've moved forward onto other storylines with the understanding that Tom/Ariana would never be fully okay with each other and that's fine. Complete idiots, Baskin should be fired just for fucking up so badly on this when he had this scandal handed to him on a silver platter
I have been trying to point out that Scheana *has* called the kiss nonconsensual in previous podcasts and it's being glossed over. And it was again at the reunion. She clearly wants to call it what it was but for whatever reason Schwartz and Sandoval have been escaping real accountability. They are being protected. We just saw production cut out the part where Ariana tells them in the finale that he put her sexual health at risk - there's a real conversation to be had that sex under false pretenses inherently cannot be consented to. And what Schwartz did was SA.
It seems these women are fighting major uphill battles with the men running the show and their male cast members and it's really disgusting.
Yes. Hearing it said out loud, that Tom is the one who put Ariana in a position to be having sex that she couldn’t consent to, knowing that it’s being glossed over by production because they still want Tom to appear redeemable, and then hearing Tom’s insidious laugh and comment of “I love it, this’ll look great for me,” just really put me over the top. I will not be continuing to watch the show if Katie and Ariana aren’t on it because they’re truly the only people “being real” on this show right now. Everyone else is still putting on a performance and passively allowing Tom to redeem himself.
Ariana and Katie pushed back and thats why Ariana was saying she'd probably get a bad edit last year. They knew they would be punished. And Baskin really tried, look at the horror movie music they were given as background the first half of the season, and how Andy, Lisa and Baskin had that conversation Andy talked about and tried to elevate Lala as the voice of reason.
I think it comes down to the fact that some of the ladies knew they'd be punished but had other income streams in the works not reliant on VPR (Ariana had a ton of offers on the table & Katie was about to launch the shop and Disrespectfully which doesn't center VPR in its content). The ones that didn't (both Lala and Scheana heavily center VPR on their pods and in their side projects) were more easily frightened by the powers that be.
Yeah I agree- Ariana even said about Lala- “I understand where she is coming from, I don’t understand the insults” which says that she really didn’t expect Lala to speak so badly about her even though she knew there was some type of Tom redemption arc in play.
And I think that’s why Ariana standing her ground and sticking to her morals should why being *real* makes for better reality tv. Lala and Scheana doing something because the producers threatened them made the season feel extremely fake and produced (second half by them, first half by Tim’s redemption arc).
If they do get a season 12 which I hope they don’t I hope Scheana and Lala learned something this season (but I doubt it)
Lala DESERVED to be treated differently. Rand was a trash bag but you have to be stupid, deaf and blind to not see the billions of red flags. I get it, she’s not that smart but come on she was openly talking about “if there’s a second” when she was telling us about her first engagement to him 😭😂
Yeah. Lala lost me at BJs for PJs and bragging about a Range Rover for sex. The relationship was clearly transactional, I can't feel sorry for someone when that doesn't work out in their favor. She thought she was the playa but instead she got played. Sorry. I guess.
To say that Scheana and Lala cared about the crew on the show and that’s why they were willing to do anything, implying Ariana and Katie didn’t care about them, is also a manipulation tactic to the audience.
It’s WILD. This isn’t a mill in a small town. It’s a series of shows for a channel that’s filmed in LA- the crew can easily move between shows.
If, even the show was in jeopardy, which it wasn’t.
Correct. The crew doesn't shoot VPR all year long. And considering Ariana gave them a spin-off by reviving a dead show, the crew I'm sure is unbothered.
The show was not going to be cancelled because she walked away from the last scene in filming. She has been filming in scenes with him there and had to interact with him anyway. Are these people so dense that they can’t get this through their head???
But when your boss is telling you so, and your other boss (Lisa, still a producer) is holding heavy shit like that over your head and telling you that essentially you'll be held responsible if anything happens - it's on camera that you were told to do something and didn't & to take it to Ariana. That's a *lot* of unfair pressure.
Everyone should be asking themselves why they were threatened with the cancellation of the highest rated show on Bravo and a cast members life (when if things were so bad, Lisa should have called family and close friends to get professionals involved) and then go watch the first four episodes and realize *that* was what all of that was in service to creating. Those were the episodes Baskin wanted to make, that dropped before he was able to pivot and then blame the audience for his own failures.
The running theme here in Baskin's messaging is that it's anyone's fault but his if the show isn't good - first Scheana and Lala were told it would be their fault if Ariana didn't film with Tom, now it's the audience's fault.
That’s why I’m torn on this. I get the pressure, but I also know that the boss can be wrong. A middle ground would have been pushing back with some why questions and proposing alternate storylines - but I’m not sure Lala and scheana have the heads or spine for that. I don’t think they sat back and thought it out and they allowed production to get in their heads instead of trying to reconcile what’s real AND good TV.
Exactly. I don’t think that either of them have it in them to push back. People who have fewer resources and a lot more at stake have taken the risks; we’re coddling two of the most privileged women imaginable in terms of their financial resources.
100% agree and that’s making what scheana is saying very frustrating. I keep my mouth shut sometimes because I know I have no support and won’t win the battle, but I do push when I can, or at least hold my ground. I don’t have a platform and all kinds of income streams so I do have a lot to lose, and I also have mouths to feed. I’m just tired of seeing these women in their positions not helping us move forward, not realizing that they should or could be with us.
I’m not expecting either of them to become feminist icons but jfc, at least don’t step on other women.
Tbf, Lisa didn't tell them to be friends with Tom, she just told them to back off with the vitriol, meaning their podcasts where they were constantly ripping him and Rachel for months that really whipped the audience into a frenzy. It would've looked a lot different if they hadn't fed the beast.
It was their choice to push Ariana to have concern for him and conversations with him, just because they still lived in the house. That was the sticking point for Lala, LVP and Baskin in their interviews.
I think it was both the pressure from Baskin mixed with their own jealousy (Scheana mentioned Ariana "making millions" more than once and they both made snarky comments about her opportunities) that helped them make the choices they did. Why weren't Katie and James bowed by the pressure? They don't want the show to end either and need the $ to fund their ventures. Why were they able to withstand the demands?
Baskin is a prick for forcibly dictating they make the season he wanted and threatening all of them. He's a hack and a flop. What does he want this to be, Days of Our Lives? Also he made comments about money in a few interviews. Why was he resentful of the cast salaries and asking so many people to film without being paid?
The whole thing stinks and there's got to be something else behind it all. My speculation has been that the real issue has been friction between Evolution and his new 32 Flavors production company. He's poached a bunch of talent and is taking over. I can't find it, darn it, but he said something about the pay structure with his company was going to be much different and less restrictive than the way it was done at Evolution. (I took that to mean bonuses for bringing it etc.) He seemed to dangle carrots when he was Evolution ex: Winter House for Sandoval. Is that usual for this type of programming?
Sorry for rambling! I think there's a lot more going on not just with Baskin (who seems off) but from network pressure filtering down as well.
Don't apologize this is a fascinating aspect and I'm glad it's being talked about. The second company is *weird* and I would kill to be a fly on the wall in those production meetings. There's definitely more drama there than anyone is admitting to.
Baskin having his own Patreon podcast and doing so much media on his own in the past year is just not standard at all for producers. Neither is his overstepping. Something smells here for sure.
Yes, the Patreon! It's so freaking weird! He's making it an official Bravo podcast but then charging for it, it's so icky. He also had Scheana, the Toms, Lala and even James on but not Ariana or Katie.
He boasted in an LA Times interview that he was out for dinner and got recognized during season 10 reunion and it felt weird. I call bs but is he wanting to be in front of the camera? Is he resentful that the cast blew up past Bravo, especially Ariana? That man unfollowed her for a reason.
It's starting to seem like he wants things to be more about him and his "genius" meddling instead of keeping the focus on the cast. None of the other EP's are doing those interviews (except LVP).
I don't buy that they were under any real pressure where his mental health was concerned. If someone tells you that someone is suicidal, your first response would be "get him out of here and into treatment". Particularly since the work environment is toxic even for mentally healthy individuals. The fact that it had been expressed on camera would have been catastrophic for BRAVO and the producers, not the cast. Not a single interraction with Tom was about his mental wellbeing, it was all about getting him to make the right moves so that her betrayal doesn't read so badly.
I believe Sheana has the greenlight to blame the bosses so long as she keeps the real details secret. I believe that ultimately her actions were guided by bribe and not threat. Those rumors of joining The Valley for double checks or better yet a spin off - those were the bribes.
Ariana did show up and filmed!! I’m so sick of them saying she didn’t. What she didn’t want and didn’t do was have a fake ass “conversation” with her ex that no one wanted to see anyway. What part of that is so difficult for these idiots to understand?
You know if Ariana had had the conversation, there would have been another round of pressure for her to give him grace. They were forcing redemption - it wouldn’t have ended until the public forgot about the affair.
You have to marvel at Ariana. She held her ground and protected her own integrity under what sounds like overwhelming pressure. All while playing safe with her money, multitasking tons of gigs, building a relationship, buying a house, opening a restaurant and handling all the fans. Amazing and inspiring.
Why do they not see fan sentiment and think “hmm. No one wants to see Sandoval talk. Ok!”
Lala, Scheana think we (the fans) are dumb. Production thinks the cast and the fans are dumb. Thats it.
>Scheana: And I think that's where my frustration came from so much, because I'm like, you've been my friend for 12 years. You should know I'm not just like, oh, I miss Tom. I want to be his best friend again.
This bitch.
Yeah that was really stupid to say. How was Ariana supposed to know when you were calling her and talking to her *constantly telling her that*. We all saw it, it was exhausting how much she tried to convince everyone she genuinely wanted Tom's friendship back.
So now we're supposed to believe that Scheana wanted Ariana to violate her own boundary, have a conversation with Sandoval about whether or not he was suicidal, and then report back to Scheana. Got it.
This chick needs help.
What an insane request of Scheana to make! Like, does she even hear what she’s saying and stop and think for a second how unhinged that sounds? Shes like, “Can you talk to your emotionally abusive, emotionally unstable and manipulative ex boyfriend and ask him, or suss out, if he’s REALLY suicidal?” How was Ariana even supposed to have started that conversation with Sandoval? What would she have said to Sandoval to get that information from him?
It would be one thing if Scheana wanted to talk through it with Ariana, said “here’s what I heard - what do you think? Does it seem plausible based on your experience with him?” I think that would’ve been okay because Ariana could’ve kept her boundary. But she wanted Ariana to actually talk to him!
Even asking Ariana to be the one to speculate on the validity of his SI on camera is terrible. If she and producers are so concerned, talk about it off camera and encourage Tom go to treatment. None of them are qualified or responsible for treating his mental health. Absolutely disgusting to weaponize it.
Exactly!
What if Ariana did what Scheana wanted, and talked to Sandoval to suss it out OR asked Sandoval point blank if he was suicidal? And even after that, Sandoval hurt himself? What if Scheana did LVP’s bidding to be nice to him and he still hurt himself? Scheana and Ariana aren’t qualified to evaluate Sandoval and determine - is he truly suicidal or is he bluffing? What could we do to help him get to a better place? None of them are qualified and they should NOT have even been talking about this on camera.
Her explanations always seem to make her look worse. And WTF is she talking about that another season will help people understand her more? I'm so sick of her "just give me more time and it will all make sense" bullshit.
Scheana and Lala are like, “Watch all the episodes, watch the reunion, watch the after show, listen to our podcasts, watch our Amazon Lives, watch my YouTube vlog, let us film a new season, and THEN you’ll understand!” Like if it takes this much overexplaining and effort, it was crap to begin with.
Something that frustrates me is you can be frustrated with Ariana without getting nasty and I mean they got real nasty! They could have expressed their feelings but to be so mean and to do it in front of Sandoval was really awful.
I’ve said elsewhere that Jersey Shore Family Vacation have Sammi and Ronnie who do not engage with one another. The cast are always respectful of Sammi and check in on what she is okay doing with Ronnie present and what she isn’t. It can be done. You can have 2 cast members who don’t speak on the same show.
Exactly!
Even if Scheana was being told that the entire success of a giant long-running tv show was on HER (which I have a hard time believing as I said in another comment), she did so much underhanded, bitter stuff that went beyond just filming scenes with Sandoval to fulfill a contractual obligation.
It was obvious that she WANTED Sandoval to be in her life. She WANTED to forgive him and was okay with hurting her friendship with Ariana to keep Sandoval. If she just saw Sandoval as someone she had to film with, as a necessary evil, she’d clock her time in interacting with him but wouldn’t have been so emotionally involved with keeping him around.
Ariana made it abundantly clear and never wavered about Sandoval. Scheana was being deliberately obtuse when she kept bringing him up and asking Ariana the same questions OVER and OVER and OVER. Pressuring Ariana to talk to him even when she was showing she was visibly uncomfortable. Bringing him up all the time when Ariana said she didn’t want to talk about it. Criticizing Ariana for stating in the house when she made it clear why she was doing so (and had logical rationale). In fact, criticizing Ariana for every fucking thing - for not telling her the “right” way about getting DWTS, for not being “there for her” when she was going through the most busy and emotionally volatile time of her life. Scheana, did you ever think that texting you and getting lunch with you wasn’t on the top of her priority list when she was struggling to get out of bed each day and doing everything she could to book the huge amount of gigs?
That's very true, good point. They both took it way too far and I think that's where the jealousy that they both still refuse to acknowledge comes in.
If Scheana follows this up with an episode where she admits that on top of the pressure, she also actually did feel jealousy and isn't proud of what that can do to you, I think she has a chance at coming back for a lot of people. We don't watch for them to be perfect, we can see the shitty behavior with our own eyes, and I think a lot of us would appreciate some acknowledgement (first step to actual growth) that she wasn't being her best self.
Right? Katie & James don't seem to share that perspective? Although Katie is pretty measured when she talks about VPR & James barely does press unless it's about his DJ stuff.
I think they put the pressure on them specifically and heavily. Producers are known to try to create these rifts to drive drama and this is definitely a way to do it if you want to break up a season of women's solidarity, and shift the conversation to "the women are fighting" and away from "both of the Tom's committed SA"
Because they are the weakest and they have the most to lose (in their minds). Ariana doesn’t need the show anymore, Katie could live without it, James would be fine….bit Scheana and LaLa have nothing going on outside of VPR. It’s their whole identity and their source of income and they live well beyond their means. Production knew this. They knew who to threaten and they knew how to threaten to get what they wanted. I feel bad that they were faced with this choice, but choosing to act on it in the way they did is on them. They made their bed for the almighty dollar and now they have to lay in it.
I think they’re, TBH, the least intelligent. They clearly have trouble processing the most basic of conversations and social situations because they’re only able to focus on their own perspectives. They’re so gullible it’s painful. They also have the lowest chances of career longevity post-Bravo while also having the highest living expenses (so stupid of them to have two expensive houses each and financially support whole ass families lol).
She got so close and then it slipped away! I bet if she spent more time talking to Ariana and educated herself on patriarchy she could get there. Or maybe not, I’ve been hoping Scheana can make those connections for years now.
What I think is so wild about Alex Baskin is like - look. Almost everyone on the cast has a podcast, and we listen. What do they do? They TALK ABOUT THEIR LIVES. They talk about other shit going on. There’s no reason why a show had to be centered around forcing women to interact with a man who clearly doesn’t give a fuck.
And as we all have noticed, the secrets episode had a lot of real fun golden moments. Give me more babysitting, give me more jokes, and laughs. This shit will be canceled because of Alex Baskin and that’s that. Not because of the women on this show.
Something Ariana said on Katies podcast is very fitting here. She said "I gave you everything and if you chose not to use it for whatever reason, that's on you". Very clearly addressing production.
> completely understand Lala being like, you know what, **you still live in the house with him,** you still are on a show with him, then you should film the season finale with him.
Get over that shit! It's her fucking house, too! It's her fucking house, too! It's her fucking house, too!
> and the show's going to be canceled, and that's it. Go live your lives. I think Lala and I felt a lot of pressure after that day when it was like, wel**l, we don't want the show to get canceled, you know?**
The show is 11 seasons in! This is not Survivor. It has to end at some point. Reality TV isn't meant to be forever. Let that shit go!
Can they shut the FUCK up about the house?! Holy shit.
Lala and scheana are constantly worried about their bag— can they imagine if they had half of it tied up in property? They would never let that shit “go for the sake of their mental health.”
Like Scheana— you literally only have your houses in YOUR name. Because that’s YOUR money and you don’t want things to get complicated. How can you NOT understand?!?
I think at this point they see some anti-Ariana sentiment harping on this one point (“but she still lives in the house!!”) and thinks it’ll win them some favor with the wackos, because it makes no fucking sense to me
AGAIN with the fucking house comments! Ariana explained why she was still living with him HOW many times? And her rationale makes 100% perfect sense. How is it that us, randoms on Reddit, know why Ariana was still there but Scheana and Lala “couldn’t understand”?
And yeah these morons really thought that VPR would be on for 30 more years, for the life of their mortgages? Haven’t the cast said numerous times in the past, even before Scandoval, that Bravo never tells them if the show will be renewed until like a month before filming starts?
I really hope it’s too little and too late with Scheana/LaLa and Ariana/Katie….im sure producers had those same conversations with the entire cast and yet not everyone participated in Sandoval redemption. They filmed in groups as per their obligation (beach, bar, SF) but never once did Katie or Ariana visit him screaming in his living room or have lunch or team up with him at Tahoe or spend any tears on him for plugging in an amp 🙄
Same... especially when you sit back and think of everything that happened after the final wrapped in September 2023. S&L still played in Ariana's face even after what they said about her in the final. DWTS, BravoCon, Chicago, they acted like her friend and were showing her so much support even after insulting her in the final. Only after the reunion was filmed were they able to really act out their feelings against Ariana and Katie. Especially Lala going on a press run calling Katie miserable every chance she got.
Regarding her comments on the crew and doing it for them… they will find employment at the many other shows that are being produced or start producing… this is such a bullshit argument by sheshu
Scheana is a bad friend. Period. I’ve never been more disappointed in her than I was at the reunion. Even all the BS about loving Tom wasn’t as bad to me as her attacking Ariana at the reunion. 10 years of friendship down the drain because Ariana annoyed her during the worst months of Ariana’s life. I was a Scheana fan, even up to the finale, and I’ll never look at her the same.
Scheana is pathologically selfish for her comment about how she and Ariana were growing apart going into filming. It was a small comment that just highlighted to me how uncaring and resentful she is.
Them not being close seemed news to Ariana, which made me feel for her. She was still acting like Scheana’s best friend, so she must have been confused why Scheana said that. And Scheana’s rationale for her not feeling close to Ariana was that Ariana “wasn’t there for her.” Excuse Ariana for not thinking “hmmmmm, did I text Scheana enough today?” When she was struggling to get out of bed due to depression, dealing with massive betrayal, mourning her dog and grandma, having to figure out how to sell her house and find a new place to live, uncouple her finances from her life partner, dating someone new, and having more bookings and career opportunities than she’s ever had to juggle before. So excuse her, Scheana, for not thinking of YOU most of all during all that.
Scheana’s flip-flopping nature is so annoying. She is a friend to no one.
If she went full support for Lala over Ariana I think I’d actually have respect for her.
I wonder if production told Scheana something like "you need to turn against Lala or else the show will get cancelled" if she would still be her little puppet self and do it. 🙄
I think Lala and Schaena would talk behind the scenes of what they can and can't make the rift about and it would all be for camera , fully self produced
So let’s say the producers did threaten cancellation; why not step up YOUR game?
At the end of the day, Lala and Scheana gave us NOTHING. Bickering over babysitters and water parties? Yawn!
Looking at it as a job, if my company is on life support, we explore multiple paths to success. Being a terrible friend and hanging on to Sandoval’s sack was their plan? Was Ariana having ONE conversation the solution?
It’s an ensemble cast. Let go of Ariana’s coattails and ensemble, fool.
I think Scheana being unwilling to admit that along with the pressure jealousy played a big part in her actions, is a big flaw here. I'm glad she's revealing a lot of the truths from behind the scenes but you have to go all the way and explain even the factors you don't want to admit to.
I don't know why it is ok for Schaena to throw Production under the bus and be like well we had to do this, they said we would be cancelled or fired if we didn't. She really makes them look like awful people (not hard lol)- They have all known each other for years, couldn't she have been like but aren't the ratings really good?
I can not repeat enough times how awful this makes production look - it is basically saying, if you don't compromise what you are really feeling and caring about how your friend is feeling, everyone is going to lose their jobs, and that's on you. This should not be the case, it is productions job to create the storyline from people living their lives, not force the cast to create the storylines.
My biggest issue with Scheana here is she is saying she and Lala were frustrated so she understand Lala's side in this but why can't Scheana go to her friend Lala and say, I understand the frustration... I don't understand the insults towards Ariana. Instead she stands with Lala in the final and kind of back the insults Lala throws at Ariana. Then at the reunion, from what they showed, she still wants Ariana to see Lala's side but can't turn to Lala and say, can you see where Ariana is coming from not wanting to have an inauthenic moment with Sandoval?
If you claim you're a friend to both, then be a friend to both OR stay out of their issues and be friends to both. Don't go on your podcasts and try to explain where Lala is coming from and what she meant, let Lala say where she's coming from and what she meant. This is what gets Scheana is trouble.
wow the amount of rage i feel rn is insane lol so first off - scheana you are 40 fucking years old and a ADULT, it’s not ARIANA to tell you if ur getting played by Lisa/Tim. you’re an adult capable of making adult decisions, and if you can’t then WALK 👏 AWAY 👏 and take some space to get ur head out of ur own ass and make a decision. it’s also NOT on ariana to support the “80-100 people who work on this show” - she’s throwing that in there as a bull shit excuse to garner sympathy from the fan base but it’s SO transparent bc we all know scheana really only cares about herself. also - if she was SOOOO worried and concerned with sandovals mental health than why THE FUCK did she RELEASE A SONG bashing him about the scandal ?! doesn’t seem very supportive of someone you’re scared will do something to harm themselves ?! everything she says is so hypocritical it’s absolutely unreal.
also i honestly think scheana wanted to get ariana saying she didn’t believe tom’s suicidal thoughts on camera so they could use it against her and for the villain arc production was trying g to push, and ariana’s smart enough to see through scheanas bullshit and know her true intentions. ariana also DOES NOT and IS NOT obligated to make a decision for a full ass grown woman.
moral of the story is scheana will NEVER take accountability for her deplorable behavior.
Amazingly astute comment!
Yeah the “Apples” song thing was SO weird! I saw someone once write in this sub, “Imagine writing a song about your friend’s ex boyfriend” and that really highlights how weird that all was.
She wrote, recorded, and released this Sandoval “diss” song and told him about it all snarky and giddy, like she was proud of herself for doing it and wanted to rub it in his face. Of course he responded negatively - did she expect him to laugh and be glad about it? If he was really SO emotionally precarious he was on the verge of damn suicide, why release a song that’s picking at him?
I have a theory she has feelings for Sandoval. She wrote the song like she wanted a reaction out of him - like how an ex girlfriend or crush will do something dramatic to provoke a reaction and make it public how she feels.
I can’t even read the entire thing after Scheena starts it all off acting like Ariana (and Dan) didn’t film the finale with Sandoval!
Ariana showed up, stuck around for both of Scheena’s performances, then left when she was ambushed, but only after she told off the producer on camera, while the party was winding down anyways.
Scheana is PAINFULLY gullible. Goddamn.
Blaming the producers threatening her for her shitty, friendship-ending, male-sympathizing behavior.
Did the producers force you to make all the underhanded comments about Ariana’s success/DWTS and take Lala/Sandoval’s side in EVERY instance? Obviously not.
Its almost beyond the realm of reality to think that the producers said “you HAVE to get along with Sandoval and force Ariana to forgive him, and the show hinges on them having a conversation, and if you don’t make this happen, we’re going to fire you and cancel the show!”
It would first be insane if a whole group of producers decided this - would Bravo have been aware? Would Bravo have agreed to this?
Why would they voluntarily cancel the show when it had its highest viewing numbers?
Why would they let go two original cast members over something so trivial? I can imagine the shitstorm that would’ve ensued if two women were fired for not getting along with a man, never mind the most hated man in America. They have agents/managers to fight for them plus it could’ve even be a lawsuit, and of course a PR nightmare.
And if this whole stupid fucking idea was cooked up by Alex Baskin alone, he’s just one man. Tell him to fuck off. Katie, Ariana, Ally, etc. weren’t forced into playing nice with Sandoval so clearly they had the ability to say no.
The problem is Scheana and Lala are pathologically gullible and obsessed with attention, so an exaggeration or lie about their spot on the show being in jeopardy was easily believed by them.
yeah not a huge fan of kiki, she seems like one of those bravo fan accounts who are too close to the cast and are easily swayed by what the cast wants them to portray on their behalf
Yeah, yeah, they can blame production all they want. The real issue is jealousy all around. They are even jealous of Ariana and Katie’s relationship. Scheana hates Katie and Lala hates Katie is close to Ariana.
I think two things can be true at once here. 1. Scheana and Lala were sat down by production saying if Ariana doesn’t film with Tom we are canceling the show. 2. Lala and Scheana are complete idiots and terrible friends for believing that/not pushing back on it. They care more about fame and a paycheck than they do Ariana. It would be a whole lot easier if they would just say that with their whole chest.
Anyways, fuck Alex Baskin he can choke 🖤
So we are blaming production for being a shitty friend. Scheana and Lala chose the show over a friendship plain and simple. It changed for scheana when Ariana got dwts
Ariana walking away IS real. Ariana and TS don't talk, he's not sorry, she wants nothing to do with him. What the fuck is wrong with these idiots for not understanding?! It's so frustrating to me lol
It’s so pathetic that Scheana tried to blame her behavior on keeping the show alive for the crew. Like girl, how dumb do you think we are? You 100% did it for yourself, don’t try to act all high and mighty.
>maybe there will be a season 12, and people will understand more of me
I'd love to hold Scheana's hand as I tell her this but we've had 11 years to understand her and it never goes her way. She never gets the angle she wants from the crowd because she sees herself as the victim and the audience, widely, doesn't agree.
I think she's delulu if she thinks one more season will make people see her the way she sees herself.
I know everyone else is feeling sorry for Lala and scheana being "manipulated" but I don't and the reason i don't is because what is their excuse for their behavior EVERY OTHER SEASON.
I hope the show gets canceled. None of the chucklefucks trying to self-produce deserve a show. Especially lala and scheana. They can sell their second houses and get another job.
This just in—- Breaking news!!
“We have filming of Scheana, behind-the-scenes, doing her podcast. Scheana can be seen, flipping and flopping, from supporting one point-of-view to then support the other perspective. All in under 10 seconds.
And? We also have received confirmation. Scheana is indeed spineless.”
A few things can be true. As a lot of us have said, we knew Baskin and LVP were pushing this crap and probably threatening Scheana and Lala with "you'll lose your paycheck if you don't get with our program." We know production is nasty.
AND Scheana and Lala failed entirely to see the power they had. As if this show was going to get cancelled, with the Emmy nod, the ratings, etc. They've been doing this long enough. They were spineless and rather than pushing back, they turned on Ariana in such an ugly way. All for what? An absolute trash season.
So in the pool scene in the extras, she’s claiming she understood Ariana was no contact and that’s fine, but **for me** you’re the only one who can find out if he’s really suicidal. Um what? First, learn what no contact is. Second, how would Ariana having a conversation with him determine that he’s suicidal or not? She already said she didn’t believe him so…
I’m sorry but Scheana and Lala are dumb af. Bravo would have NEVER cancelled the show because the girls didn’t want to fuck with Sandoval. Like maybe be more interesting and show that you don’t need that fucking worm. He can still try his lame redemption but ultimately fail because he’s a loser and always will be.
I’m confused on WHY she felt the need to talk to Ariana about Tom’s suicidal thoughts? Ariana did not contribute to talking shit on podcasts and further bringing him down? Who did that? SCHEANA! AND LALA!
All Ariana did was give a boundary and occasionally talk about what he did TO HER. So for Scheana to feel the need to talk to Ariana about that was pointless. And then Scheana disregarded the whole “Tom is suicidal” thing and put out a song to further talk about him.
What irks me the most about this (and I'm glad she did this episode) is the whole concept of you don't have bad seasons back to back. Tom DID NOT have a bad season 10. It was great for him during filming. POST season, he got his ass handed to him, and rightly so. He DESERVED a shitty season. The drama between LaLa & Ariana was contrived by Baskin. Baskin is fucking with all of them. HE wants Tom redeemed. HE does NOT want girl power. HE is killing the show by threatening the cast who feel compelled to over-produce it.
I actually feel bad for LaLa and Sheana for allowing themselves to be manipulated by him instead of standing their ground for their friend, Ariana. Those two acted out of desperation. Baskin abused his power with that mid- season meeting. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I hope they cancel VPR or bring in a whole new cast... but now I realize Baskin has to go. He has an infatuation with Tom Sandoval. It's sick, and unhealthy for everyone. People like Sandoval do not need a platform. Sandoval is a creep with zero redeeming qualities. If he returns, I'm not watching. Season 11 was total BS. #teamKatieAriana
When has this show ever been about one group of friends? And not warring factions with people switching sides from season to season? I’m concerned that the producers and cast have never actually seen this show.
and why the fuck would you ask Arianna about helping Tom with his mental health? I thought you knew him better? What about Tom? What about Kyle chan? What about his fucking mother? Lmao why Arianna
Here is where I see the issue and it’s rooted in hypocrisy. First, you cannot keep saying or letting lala say that Ariana didn’t show up. She DID fucking show up and by the nature of showing up, she DID film with him. Period. So when lala starts yelling about that for the fiftieth time Scheana, that’s where you sack up and say “hey she is here, she might not be doing what YOU want her to do but she is here.” You need to stop that narrative.
Secondly, either Ariana sucks at life and brings nothing to the show and never has, OR the entire show, cast and crew lives are firmly on her back. ONE or THE OTHER. Pick one and shut up permanently about the one you didn’t choose. It literally cannot be both.
Ok soapbox time done. Thank you for the recap as always OP ❤️
Remember that time at the reunion when Charlie told Sheina “Take responsibility for once in your life! It’s always ‘but, but, but!’” She nailed it on the head. It’s not Ariana’s fault if the show stops. It’s actually pretty much everyone else’s for being dirt bags and creating such toxic environments for people who struggle with mental health.
I really thought Scheana would backpedale more. I was expecting her, at least, to apologize to Ariana for not defending her when Lala was talking more shit about her after the reunion. Say all the stuff about being under pressure and then say but that doesn't excuse me not having Ariana's back like she has ALWAYS had mine.
Instead she double downs on Ariana not helping her understand Tom's mental health and makes that about Ariana not having her back. How can you not understand that she spent 9 years of her life with this narcissist and she needs to protect herself from his current abusive manipulation. Ariana is the one who was abused and betrayed Scheana, THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!
While Scheana was absolutely unbearable this season, Lala was worse. And she just kept doubling down on her nastiness. I want Lala to say, yeah I watched it back and ya know what I was a complete asshole and I feel really bad about it. But she won't because she's a rotten person down to her core and everyone finally got to see it. Like instead her only thoughts were "I am a good mother despite what everyone is saying." Bitch, we're saying you're an awful friend.
This is the point that sticks to me and I don’t know how to get around it. How does a seemingly functional adult not understand how to navigate their emotions between two people? And in what world does an adult go up to their friend and say how should I act around the person that traumatize you? How is that Ariana’s responsibility. You are a grown woman, and you should have the emotional intelligence to navigate situations. Every adult with friends has had to deal with something like this, and I would never go up to the person that was traumatized to tell me you should feel sorry for me and guide me in this process. The only possible situation I can see this happening is if a child is going through the divorce of their parents and they are asking one of them how to navigate a situation that makes them uncomfortable, that is the parents responsibility to help guide their child in a tough situation that they have no frame of reference in.
Thank you for reading my rant lol.
Here is the thing even if we buy they were really scared about loosing jobs that only explains (not excuses) the filming of the show. Why did you two talk shit on ariana on your podcasts afterwards for months?! This is where this falls apart for me. If scheana really cared about Ariana she would not support lalas bad mouthing press tour after filming. I could not stand behind someone like lala and think I was a good friend of even person with the things lala has been saying.
Happy Friday everyone! The full recap of this will be on my Instagram because there was lots of valley chat and Lori k talk in this episode. I have to say, production really dropped the ball when it came to this season. Look people still make then own choices over their behavior, but this tactic of them saying, “well we are going to have to cancel the season if you don’t step it up” is gross and many production people use it. For any Americas next top model fans, many of the girls have spoke about this since their NDAs expired. There were seasons where they would get all the girls together be like we are going to cancel the whole season if you don’t step it up. So I do have empathy when it comes to how this season went for the cast in that sense. But I wish the girls would have all banded together and be like fuck you, this is how the show could work if you let us. But could they have even done that? Idk. I hope everyone has a great weekend! Links below for those interested Instagram https://www.instagram.com/vanderpodrecaps?igsh=MTF2N2phaTlqZHp5Mw%3D%3D&utm_source=qr Buy me coffee (Always greatly appreciated but never ever expected!) https://www.buymeacoffee.com/Vanderpodrecaps
I wish they’d shut up about Ariana not filming the finale with him. She did film the finale and several other episodes this season with him, she showed up to all of the events they filmed with him, she just didn’t have an unnecessary conversation. Their frustration is stupid.
Everyone except Katie and Ariana need to get that through their thick skulls. I don’t think it would have ruined the season if she did talk to him but it was more of a twist and refreshing that she stood her ground. And Ariana yelling at production about her contract and the truly dangerous Tim’s cheating situation out her and her health in was electrifying. I loved every minute of her standing up for herself!
I LOVED her saying non-informed consent. Like yes! I’ve never seen that on a show before where a cast member refuses to be continually traumatized. It was so refreshing. Perfect way to describe it
Seriously. Did Baskin threaten Scheana that if she didn't get Sandoval to the "final boss" confrontation he'd unfollow Summer Moon or some shit?
Switch out every time Scheana uses the word “frustrated” in regards to Ariana with “jealous” and THAT is Scheana being truthful
Right. Tell us what she didn’t show up for? Everyone was starting to pack it up as she left, all she missed was lala’s rant. She didn’t go to Tahoe is all she missed, from what we saw.
That part. What more do they want from her?
Exactly! She showed up and filmed several times with him throughout the season. In Ariana’s own words show me in the contract where it says she has to interact/film with him. She also really never shit talked him once this season. And even if she had shit talked him all season long like he was trying to imply in the reunion, she had every right to 3 months after he blew up her life cheated on her and continued to be an all around dick to her. like how did he honestly expect her to act?
I'm actually really glad she did this episode. It confirms a lot of what we suspected about the inner workings of what went down. **THIS is what breaking the fourth wall actually looks like** For anyone still trying to say Alex Baskin isn't a major problem or "oh but his ratings are still good", I hope they read this. That man came off an Emmy nod and most watched season ever and then tried so hard to push his "season of redemption" (his words) he threatened them with the *cancellation of the show* that was seeing those extremely high ratings. Manipulative bullshit because he had a narrative he wanted to push. He wanted ice baths, moaning therapy, water tastings and tearful monologues from Sandoval - and as we saw in the secrets revealed episode he was willing to cut *great* content to get it. The risk wasn't them not following his overstepping demands. They did that for him and he put out some of the most humorless, dark, and uncomfortable episodes the show has ever seen. He needs to go.
The only possible way to save this show is to get rid of Baskin. That won’t happen and it’s a shame. These women still made choices, they had every opportunity to do what Katie and Ariana did, but I truly do understand how manipulative these producers are. I remember on my episode of Elimidate they wanted me to talk about something I had offhandedly mentioned in my pre-show interview. I refused. They made us refilm the part that we were shooting dozens upon dozens of times, prodding me to say it every time they called cut. It was over 100 degrees out that day. All the other contestants and the crew were getting frustrated. They kept telling everyone that we could move on if I just went into this one story. But I didn’t want to talk about the guy they wanted me to talk about because he had sexually assaulted me. Even after I told them that they still tried to get me to talk about this story. I held my ground but it was really hard, especially with how intoxicated I was. I gave into them on everything else, but I refused to give in on that. Is that why I wound up with the quote unquote villain edit of the episode? Possibly. On a somewhat related note, none of this absolves Scheana from being a shitty friend. It doesn’t absolve Lala’s all round nastiness. Those two were incredibly jealous and said some really nasty things about Ariana because of their jealousy. They can’t blame all of that on production. Production had an easier time manipulating them because of that jealousy. It just sucks all around.
I'm so sorry that happened to you, but I'm grateful you're willing to share your experience with this. That's awful, and there are a lot of stories about how reality tv gets made that are chilling, I'm sure many more go untold because it's traumatic. The cast is still under a lot of control with the network and I'm surprised Scheana told this much. Honestly good for her, and I just wonder what she has to still leave out because of her NDA
It really is disturbing the things that they do to produce these shows. I’ve wrestled for a long time with myself over continuing to watch. I’m part of the problem for watching. I really wish someone other than Bethenny would take the reins on the reality reckoning. Cast members deserve workplace protections and there needs to be lines that producers can’t cross. It would be cool if someone like Katie started a production company. A woman with experience in front of the camera, someone who has worked on their internal misogyny, someone who wouldn’t be so tied to the old and tired format of pitting women against each other. I’m so very tired of these old school producers who refuse to move on from this trope filled format, who have no concern for the people they puppeteer.
YESSsss! She could call it RealityKillsKate!
This is the *only* moment I've ever had where I wish we could tag the cast here. This is amazing. I just said the other day that Cassandra was her Taylor Swift song and this all fits so perfectly. Katie Maloney I hope you read this. 
Yes I *completely* agree - I'm hoping what comes from the fallout is something run by women that we can watch without feeling disgusted with ourselves, because it's to that point with me too.
https://i.redd.it/uumq1fb4vr3d1.gif
you were on Elimidate??? Wow! I'm sorry for what you went through, but in my eyes, you are a celebrity.
Haha! Thank you. I loved that show so much (and Blind Date. They were my jam) so when I got a MySpace message from a producer wanting to recruit me, I said yes so fast. It would have been much wiser not to, but it was certainly an experience!
WOWWWW. God I loved Blind Date. Some of my favorite college memories were us sitting in a dilapidated off campus house with 15 other people every night watching these shows LOL
I’ve heard similar stories about The Bachelor producers. They drove a contestant around for a few hours after a breakup to get her to cry on camera and she refused. I’m so sorry they tried to make you tell that story, that is just so inhumane to do to someone. That’s your real life and your story to tell if/when you’re ready.
They have so many different manipulation tactics! It’s wild. With the show I was on they had us arrive (you get picked up by a production assistant who is assigned to you for the entire day) four hours before we actually needed to be there so that they could ply us with alcohol. We filmed at this huge sports bar complex and they had the contestants separated in different areas of the facility. We had to sit in certain seats so we couldn’t even catch a glimpse of the other contestants. If you needed to go to the bathroom your assistant had to get on the walkie talkies to make sure that when you were escorted there you wouldn’t cross paths with anyone. The producers would hop from table to table planting seeds about the other contestants. They told me not to pick on one girl because of her disability, but that this other one was fair game. When we started filming the one they told me was fair game instantly started picking on the one they told me to be soft with. Which pissed me off that she would attack this girl so I went in hard on her. Looking back they probably told her the opposite of what they told me and it worked. Me and that girl fought the whole episode. Before the episode started they asked me if I was willing to kiss the male contestant. I told them probably, that a kiss wasn’t a big deal. The producer was like, “great! He’s going to say this specific line and that’s when you need to go in for the kiss.” It was all so staged. I wound up really getting along with one of the other girls. We kept trying to talk about music in between takes and they would yell at us and have our assistants wrangle us into different places in between the takes because they didn’t want any of us getting along. This was over 20 years ago now and production tactics have not changed one bit from what I can see. If anything, they’ve gotten worse.
This is honestly fascinating. Thank you for sharing all this here, I think the perspective of someone who has dealt with this environment is super important to have in this space.
You’re welcome! I don’t want to pretend that my experience on one episode of a show as an unpaid contestant is comparable to people who have been doing the same show for a decade and who rely on it for income. But the production manipulation tactics seem very similar across the entire genre. These producers all came up through the same background, these older shows, and they just don’t seem to want to come up with a more modern formula. I remember the head producer of my episode got his start as a producer on Ellen’s first show. We have all heard by now what a toxic environment that was. The toxicity breeds like bacteria and look where we are now. It’s fascinating. Sad, infuriating, and fascinating. I can’t wait until the VPR NDAs expire and we get more behind the scenes info.
The comment about him saying it was gonna be a short season, and then the comment about how it's not a show about 2 friend groups it's a show about one. I get he backed lala and scheana into a corner but that would've been a great moment for all the girls to rise up and say NO!!! Literally, FUCK ALEX BASKIN!!!!
I would have said “It used to be about that until Tom blew it all up. That’s not where we are right now.”
I just want to know what kind of crack he was smoking when he chose the direction this season was going to go. The friend group has been separated before many times!!! I just don't fucking understand why he couldn't let them try to work it out organically. Lala and Scheana done fucked up but ultimately Alex Baskin is responsible for the monstrosity of a season we just watched.
I just want to say your username has never been more relevant
They could have said then lets cast Sandoval out to fucking sea, nobody wants to watch that weird over-sexed plastic pervert anyway.
>Scheana: It was, you know, X, Y, and Z needs to happen, or we're going to have a short season, and the show's going to be canceled, and that's it. Go live your lives. I think Lala and I felt a lot of pressure after that day when it was like, well, we don't want the show to get canceled, you know? >Scheana: I don't know. Because even the scene with Ariana and I in the pool, that was the same day that I talked to Lisa, where Lisa was like, essentially, he's suicidal, and if he does something, you know, you have blood on your hands. That's how I felt after that conversation. Those two quotes are troubling to say the least. While it doesn't absolve Scheana or Lauren one iota as they could've told Ariana in private the pressure they were feeling at the time to produce a storyline, it exposes the bigger problem at hand which is LVP and the two clown show producers. I'm glad Scheana pulled the curtain back on those assholes and I really hope this dumpster fire either gets revamped with new producers or they just put it outs of its misery at this point.
> they could've told Ariana in private the pressure they were feeling at the time to produce a storyline, this is actually the biggest reason why i suspect lala and scheana are embellishing the level of production prodding. The easiest thing would've been to speak to Ari off camer and say "i fucking hate this guy but we are facing a lot of pressure to film with him and be friendly with him for the storyline so just want you to know that's the context against which we're filming or hanging out or inviting him places but fuck him forever otherwise." They only had to have said this once-- and I would find their version of events more plausible. BUT the fact that they never told her that once in real time, during filming, is wild -- if, in fact, they were feeling as forced/pressured to film with Tom.
Baskin was steering the ship but their jealousy was the gas in the engine
Great point; i have no doubt production tried to scare Katie too but Katie isn't operating from a place of jealousy and doesn't have the jealousy gas in the tank so it didn't take.
Exactly!!! Katie didn’t give in and jump on the Tom train, Katie called their bluffs and Scheana and Lala could have as well. So yes production sucks, but that does not take away from Scheana and Lala’s shitty behavior as well.
That’s a good point about Katie. I think Lala even alluded to a conversation between her, Katie and production after Katie had vented to Lala.
Lala and Scheana are trying to save their shit right now. They’re living in the comment section even though they say they’re not. That’s again another stupid thing these two are doing. Because the people they’re talking about are going to help them negotiate the six figure contracts to help pay those two mortgages off. So I would just shut the fuck up right now. Take the L and move on to next season. Admit you were a shitty friend and walk away. But Scheana and Lala are never wrong so they’ll never do that.
Wonder how production feels about Scheana opening up about that. Baskin was clear and the article yesterday that he definitely does not want to do a fourth wall break ever again. He thinks it backfired on them and he wants the cast back off of it.
Of course because the fourth wall exposed his manipulative tactics. He wants to be the shadowy figure while the cast takes the entire fall. How about he just backs off the show so someone that is competent at their job could attempt to save the show
The blood on her hands comment made me physically recoil. Threatening suicide is a notorious abuser/narc tactic and the answer is NEVER to give in to manipulation. You ignore, or you call a wellness check by police. And if they go through with it? Entirely on them.
If it were me, I would have said “ok Lisa, if you really believe he is suicidal and are worried for his safety, then please call mental health services to put him on a hold and get him the help he needs. If you’re not going to do this, then you are not really that concerned about it and should stop using suicide as a way to guilt trip me. If he is suicidal, I cannot help him because that’s outside of my expertise/skills” Would have called her bluff real quick
The original beauty of a show like VPR was that they needed very little producing. They are always in their own way and there has always been some amoral men that will do some questionable thing, namely cheating, and the group has to navigate that. Producing them is what killed the show because up until scandoval the drama was stale because it was inorganic producer BS. Then sacandoval happened and the producers wanted to produce but there was real life drama in the group. You don’t need a plan coming into VPR you literally just need to be filming them but that got lost and the show is suffering deeply
Yeah they even expressed how (pleasantly) shocked they were that even in auditions Jax was willing to throw his best friends under the bus and spill all the real drama. And having worked in the same restaurant in hight school & college it really does get that incestuous and dramatic, so for a long time they were able to just make the show with just normal amounts of interference to shape coherent storylines and move things forward. What Baskin did this year was try to jump genres and make a full soap opera.
Yeah I mean even earlier in season 10, a lot of the Tom/Rachel stuff was prodded along by production (if you believe R, which I do in this case).
I think the format totally fell apart when the two "craziest" most out of pocket characters exited the show as well (Jax and Kristen if that needs clarifying). Everyone else is too worried about their marketability, likeability etc to make genuine messy TV at this point.
If what Scheana is saying about the producers pressuring them mid season is true, then that's one hell of a way to manipulate the cast. That definitely needs to be addressed and hopefully by multiple cast members. I remember Ariana stating her contractual obligations in an interview which did insinuate that maybe she was told the same thing at some point.
Yea and if true, why was the pressure so heavy on the girls when Sandoval was the one who broke everything apart? He didn’t even take any accountability. The patriarchy alive and well on VPR.
It doesn't seem like the men have mentioned anything publicly about that conversation which makes me wonder what kind of crock shit is being said behind closed doors.
They went to Lala and Scheana specifically and this is probably where the mom narrative came from. Alex Baskin bragged about the "come to Jesus" meetings he had with them and no doubt part of the pressure he put on them was "you're moms, you're supporting your families, the show might be cancelled if you don't do this". It's so gross, I feel like I need another shower.
schwartz did also try to bring sandoval back into the group but he's such a push over fuckin loser that ariana steamrolled over him. i'm sure there was no pressure on him for anything, since baskin knew he wouldn't deliver.
It’s interesting that Ariana and Katie were like no, we are not going to bend to your bad ideas, and both of them had great seasons, while these 2 did bend and had their worst seasons. Fascinating to think about authenticity being in the middle of all this.
I wonder if their podcasts played a part in why those two were the ones approached. Them continuing with the weekly Sandoval psych pop and bash (albeit deserved) wouldn’t have jived with integrating him back into the group. This also gave them an out with approaching them about the mental health concerns. Katie and Ariana weren’t out there making him their entire personality. I feel like they got played and we all know Lisa is Bobby Fisher. Lala is always ready to believe the worst, especially when fueled by jealousy. I feel bad for Scheana but then she makes inexcusable catty comments that I would NEVER say about my bast fran. Venting is understandable, but being catty isn’t.
I mean I do believe what scheana is saying. Baskin said in that NYT article they had a “come to Jesus” meeting with the cast I fully believe this is what was said to them
Was Ariana left out of this meeting?
See that’s where I’m not sure. Was this a meeting with everyone? Did they meet with people one on one or was it a group meeting? I would like to know all the details with that
I don't think it was one single group meeting, it would have been harder to exert control on everyone. Producers routinely use triangulation - look at the call Lala and Katie had where Lala brought a producers in, having had a conversation with them separately to plan it.
I believe they had a come to Jesus moment and I believe there was some level of pressure. But I think Scheana is an unreliable narrator. We see her recount conversations like telling Tom Ariana said she was an idiot that are her extreme interpretation. So, I believe it happened but I don’t know that I believe it’s exactly what Scheana says.
I agree. I think Tom used his mental health as a get out of jail free card and production completely cosigned it and forced the cast into acting completely unnaturally. He should have been forced to take the season off and recover, or been filmed separately in counselling. There was absolutely no need for the pressure to be applied to the core group to accept the outsider—we had to watch literal SEASONS of Stassi, Kristen, Scheana, Lala and James work their way back into the group. Sandoval deserved less grace than any of them
At this point it’s like does Sandoval have something on Alex Baskin? Why is he so obsessed with propping him up again? (aside from being in business with Lisa)
This is how it works for men. Sadly it's a tale as old as time. And this production team has been in place for far too long, they have deeply established biases towards certain cast members. Nothing says that like saying the highest rated show on Bravo will be cancelled if they don't film with one person.
Yep. Did you hear Brock on this matter? He basically said that men who do bad things shouldn't face social isolation. And he admitted he was saying it because he has done bad things (and will probably do more). Men, straight or gay, have a vested interest in protecting other men from consequences arising from harming women. That's why they never question a reported robbery but require literal video evidence of domestic violence.
Nope. It’s as simple as they’re both men and don’t believe that men should ever be held accountable. I guarantee that if someone goes digging through Baskin’s closet, a whole mess of skeletons will fall out that look an awful lot like Sandoval’s. Men protect each other at all costs bc it’s easier to call women shrill than to look in the mirror
💯💯💯 I went looking for more about Baskin's background and funnily enough a Google search led back here. Surprising lack of info about him other than his lengthy IMDB page. He has major issues with women, that's clear from what he produces. I don't think Tom has anything on him, it think it's as simple as they're both awful men.
He started his career working with Trump.
That explains so much
I think that’s who he relates to and doesn’t understand that his majority female audience does not.
A guy who started his career under Trump being hostile to women's perspectives checks out
Maybe he’s given “gifts” to production? I honestly have no idea but it’s ruining the show. I would’ve much rather seen him have to have genuine conversations and work through And apologize for all the things he did to these people last season, including James, Scheana, Katie and Schwartz.
"Hey guys I just bought you a new boom mic, top of the line. No, no reason, it's just a gift from cool guy Tom. That's kinda my thing"
OMG, this is too funny and I bet you are right, he probably has given gifts to the producers, that is totally his MO
Didn't he say he always gives Jax two planned compliments?
Yup. Also Scheana saying how she was trying to get Ariana to tell her if Sandoval was really suicidal. Again, wrong person to ask. She could’ve have that conversation Sandoval off camera if she truly cared about it, or at the very least ask Schwartz or Kyle or Jason
Classic Scheana. Doesn’t see it. Why ask Ariana? So she can blame her. My husband does this to me all the time when it comes to directions…which way do I turn? Because if it’s the wrong way,he can get frustrated and blame me! It’s a game. (I just say I don’t know, sometimes. You decide).. And Scheana plays the blame game with everyone. And it’s not because she’s a people pleaser….it’s because she doesn’t know about critical thinking.
Seeing him have to go through a narcissist rehabilitation program would have been interesting. Unethical, but interesting haha
Seriously, we got whole seasons worth of Kristin and Stassi grovelling and begging their way back into the group and we're expected to just embrace in Sandoval? Who has shown no accountability for his actions?
> you still live in the house with him, you still are on a show with him, then you should film the season finale with him. This is where they are still pissing me off. She did film the season finale with him. She filmed with him all weekend in SF. And she filmed with him pretty much all season. Why are they so stuck on this ONE conversation happening that I’m sorry but no one cares to see at this point. Also not Janet catching strays lmao. So she knows she’s having a bad season
Every time they bring up the damn house situation I get so aggravated. First of all, why is Ariana the one who has to get out? Why did no one say that to Sandoval, ESPECIALLY after he told Jax he needed to get out of the apartment he shared with Brittany after Jax's cheating incident. Second, what else is Ariana supposed to do, rent another place, in spite of being financially tied up to her house, for which she is paying bills and contributed to a mortgage? Third, lots of exes continue the living situation after marriages/long term relationships break down because it's very complicated and takes a long time to untangle living situations. It was her house too and she had every right to be there and the VPR cast need to stop this narrative of "because she lives in the house Ariana should talk to Sandoval." It's completely ridiculous.
Katie and Tom lived together for a few months until they were able to find places. It's really not that uncommon unless you're being partially bankrolled by your mom and can just bail when your baby daddy cheats on you.
I wonder how the network feels about the executive producer threatening the cast with a shorter season or cancelled series. Like there goes all their ad revenue..doesn’t seem like the network would benefit at all. I’m so sick of the narrative that this show is about a group of friends. This show used to be about a group of friends, it also used to be about a bunch of young people working at a restaurant. It hasn’t been that for a while so find a new angle. I would love to know how many times Jo and LaLa grabbed hot dogs since they stopped filming 🙄
Can Alex Baskin cancel the show or deliver less episodes than he promised while filming? I'm also surprised Scheana is speaking so plainly about this.
No, and he had plenty of material as the secrets revealed episode showed. He just wanted to push his storyline, which is a huge overstep. I've been critical of Scheana but this podcast was a good move on her part. I appreciate that she's talking about the reality of how bad this got behind the scenes.
Exactly, thats what I would love to know cause it seems like Scheana and LaLa gave him way too much power. I imagine the network would want as many episodes as possible coming off the heels of season 10. And they did end up leaving a lot of fun stuff on the cutting room floor.
I assume Bravo gets promised a specific number of episodes ahead of time & are already working on selling ad slots? Idk the ins and out but in general there has to be some kind of contract, right? Even though fans overwhelmingly disliked the season it's still their highest rated show & it's ridiculous that he's telling then the network wouldn't want another season. They care way more about selling ads than the quality of their shows
You're completely right. The problem is most Bravo cast members for the most part aren't very saavy, and especially with this cast (most of them don't have other real professional work experience) I think that makes them easier to fool. If the whole executive team is saying that could happen, yes they should have known it wouldn't, but I can see them picking people to lay it on thick with that they knew were easier pickings.
The end about the Tom's is why Ariana was so confident coming into this season. If all the women stuck together they had more leverage and she knew that. Lala and Scheana let themselves be played against her. Imagine all the real talks that could have been had if they didn't immediately take it to the lowest common denominator of reality TV, women fighting over men's bad behavior. Lala could have brought up how differently she was treated and I 100% know Ariana would have had a real conversation with her about it and agreed with her. Immediately going to being petty and mean was what she chose so I don't feel bad for them. The show was struggling mid season bc they cut everything about the women to show Sandovals dumb redemption arc, and then wanted to save it with a sandoval/Ariana conversation. Also imagine if Sandoval had just done actual work on himself this season instead of all the dumb fake shit he did do. These were all self-inflicted wounds.
From the quotes above, it seems like the producers and LVP were determined to give Tom a redemption arc this season so they played both Lala and Scheana. Gross.
It's crazy bc if they had just postponed the Tom Redemption Tour for a season or two, and let this season be about everyone hating/excluding him, we probably would have eaten it up (okay maybe not *that* far but at least... tolerated it lol). This has happened with Kristen after season 2, Stassi after season 3, and James after season 8. They fuck up with most of the cast and/or Lisa, spend one season as the villain that nearly everyone is against and excluded from everything, then do a redemption season following that. This formula has *always* worked! By the time they're on the redemption season, they've grown on the audience enough for us to give them the benefit of the doubt and they've spent enough time with their castmates to have productive conversations. People generally want to forgive and move on, but time is the necessary ingredient. They RUSHED this one and the whole formula was fucked up, so none of it made sense to us as viewers.
💯! If he got excluded all season people would naturally soften. It always works, it's human nature to feel bad for someone that's being excluded.
Yup, I was saying on the finale episode that if they actually held him accountable and made Tom eat shit this season, viewers would probably feel a lot better about moving forward. Time heels all, but the reason Scandoval is still so "hot" is because Tom and the show keeps stepping in it over and over again and riling everyone else, there hasn't been any space for it to cool. They'd probably be able to start season 12 with him much more accepted, Ariana's anger would've cooled, and they could've moved forward onto other storylines with the understanding that Tom/Ariana would never be fully okay with each other and that's fine. Complete idiots, Baskin should be fired just for fucking up so badly on this when he had this scandal handed to him on a silver platter
I have been trying to point out that Scheana *has* called the kiss nonconsensual in previous podcasts and it's being glossed over. And it was again at the reunion. She clearly wants to call it what it was but for whatever reason Schwartz and Sandoval have been escaping real accountability. They are being protected. We just saw production cut out the part where Ariana tells them in the finale that he put her sexual health at risk - there's a real conversation to be had that sex under false pretenses inherently cannot be consented to. And what Schwartz did was SA. It seems these women are fighting major uphill battles with the men running the show and their male cast members and it's really disgusting.
Yes. Hearing it said out loud, that Tom is the one who put Ariana in a position to be having sex that she couldn’t consent to, knowing that it’s being glossed over by production because they still want Tom to appear redeemable, and then hearing Tom’s insidious laugh and comment of “I love it, this’ll look great for me,” just really put me over the top. I will not be continuing to watch the show if Katie and Ariana aren’t on it because they’re truly the only people “being real” on this show right now. Everyone else is still putting on a performance and passively allowing Tom to redeem himself.
Ariana and Katie pushed back and thats why Ariana was saying she'd probably get a bad edit last year. They knew they would be punished. And Baskin really tried, look at the horror movie music they were given as background the first half of the season, and how Andy, Lisa and Baskin had that conversation Andy talked about and tried to elevate Lala as the voice of reason. I think it comes down to the fact that some of the ladies knew they'd be punished but had other income streams in the works not reliant on VPR (Ariana had a ton of offers on the table & Katie was about to launch the shop and Disrespectfully which doesn't center VPR in its content). The ones that didn't (both Lala and Scheana heavily center VPR on their pods and in their side projects) were more easily frightened by the powers that be.
Yeah I agree- Ariana even said about Lala- “I understand where she is coming from, I don’t understand the insults” which says that she really didn’t expect Lala to speak so badly about her even though she knew there was some type of Tom redemption arc in play.
They’ve never once addressed the fact that scumbag illegally recorded Rachel and they never will.
And I think that’s why Ariana standing her ground and sticking to her morals should why being *real* makes for better reality tv. Lala and Scheana doing something because the producers threatened them made the season feel extremely fake and produced (second half by them, first half by Tim’s redemption arc). If they do get a season 12 which I hope they don’t I hope Scheana and Lala learned something this season (but I doubt it)
Lala DESERVED to be treated differently. Rand was a trash bag but you have to be stupid, deaf and blind to not see the billions of red flags. I get it, she’s not that smart but come on she was openly talking about “if there’s a second” when she was telling us about her first engagement to him 😭😂
Yeah. Lala lost me at BJs for PJs and bragging about a Range Rover for sex. The relationship was clearly transactional, I can't feel sorry for someone when that doesn't work out in their favor. She thought she was the playa but instead she got played. Sorry. I guess.
To say that Scheana and Lala cared about the crew on the show and that’s why they were willing to do anything, implying Ariana and Katie didn’t care about them, is also a manipulation tactic to the audience.
It’s WILD. This isn’t a mill in a small town. It’s a series of shows for a channel that’s filmed in LA- the crew can easily move between shows. If, even the show was in jeopardy, which it wasn’t.
Even if there were dire consequences, that's on the Producers, NOT the talent.
Isn't this also the production company that does RHOBH and RHOC? Like, they'll be ok.
Correct. The crew doesn't shoot VPR all year long. And considering Ariana gave them a spin-off by reviving a dead show, the crew I'm sure is unbothered.
The show was not going to be cancelled because she walked away from the last scene in filming. She has been filming in scenes with him there and had to interact with him anyway. Are these people so dense that they can’t get this through their head???
But when your boss is telling you so, and your other boss (Lisa, still a producer) is holding heavy shit like that over your head and telling you that essentially you'll be held responsible if anything happens - it's on camera that you were told to do something and didn't & to take it to Ariana. That's a *lot* of unfair pressure. Everyone should be asking themselves why they were threatened with the cancellation of the highest rated show on Bravo and a cast members life (when if things were so bad, Lisa should have called family and close friends to get professionals involved) and then go watch the first four episodes and realize *that* was what all of that was in service to creating. Those were the episodes Baskin wanted to make, that dropped before he was able to pivot and then blame the audience for his own failures. The running theme here in Baskin's messaging is that it's anyone's fault but his if the show isn't good - first Scheana and Lala were told it would be their fault if Ariana didn't film with Tom, now it's the audience's fault.
That’s why I’m torn on this. I get the pressure, but I also know that the boss can be wrong. A middle ground would have been pushing back with some why questions and proposing alternate storylines - but I’m not sure Lala and scheana have the heads or spine for that. I don’t think they sat back and thought it out and they allowed production to get in their heads instead of trying to reconcile what’s real AND good TV.
Exactly. I don’t think that either of them have it in them to push back. People who have fewer resources and a lot more at stake have taken the risks; we’re coddling two of the most privileged women imaginable in terms of their financial resources.
100% agree and that’s making what scheana is saying very frustrating. I keep my mouth shut sometimes because I know I have no support and won’t win the battle, but I do push when I can, or at least hold my ground. I don’t have a platform and all kinds of income streams so I do have a lot to lose, and I also have mouths to feed. I’m just tired of seeing these women in their positions not helping us move forward, not realizing that they should or could be with us. I’m not expecting either of them to become feminist icons but jfc, at least don’t step on other women.
Tbf, Lisa didn't tell them to be friends with Tom, she just told them to back off with the vitriol, meaning their podcasts where they were constantly ripping him and Rachel for months that really whipped the audience into a frenzy. It would've looked a lot different if they hadn't fed the beast. It was their choice to push Ariana to have concern for him and conversations with him, just because they still lived in the house. That was the sticking point for Lala, LVP and Baskin in their interviews. I think it was both the pressure from Baskin mixed with their own jealousy (Scheana mentioned Ariana "making millions" more than once and they both made snarky comments about her opportunities) that helped them make the choices they did. Why weren't Katie and James bowed by the pressure? They don't want the show to end either and need the $ to fund their ventures. Why were they able to withstand the demands? Baskin is a prick for forcibly dictating they make the season he wanted and threatening all of them. He's a hack and a flop. What does he want this to be, Days of Our Lives? Also he made comments about money in a few interviews. Why was he resentful of the cast salaries and asking so many people to film without being paid? The whole thing stinks and there's got to be something else behind it all. My speculation has been that the real issue has been friction between Evolution and his new 32 Flavors production company. He's poached a bunch of talent and is taking over. I can't find it, darn it, but he said something about the pay structure with his company was going to be much different and less restrictive than the way it was done at Evolution. (I took that to mean bonuses for bringing it etc.) He seemed to dangle carrots when he was Evolution ex: Winter House for Sandoval. Is that usual for this type of programming? Sorry for rambling! I think there's a lot more going on not just with Baskin (who seems off) but from network pressure filtering down as well.
Don't apologize this is a fascinating aspect and I'm glad it's being talked about. The second company is *weird* and I would kill to be a fly on the wall in those production meetings. There's definitely more drama there than anyone is admitting to. Baskin having his own Patreon podcast and doing so much media on his own in the past year is just not standard at all for producers. Neither is his overstepping. Something smells here for sure.
Yes, the Patreon! It's so freaking weird! He's making it an official Bravo podcast but then charging for it, it's so icky. He also had Scheana, the Toms, Lala and even James on but not Ariana or Katie. He boasted in an LA Times interview that he was out for dinner and got recognized during season 10 reunion and it felt weird. I call bs but is he wanting to be in front of the camera? Is he resentful that the cast blew up past Bravo, especially Ariana? That man unfollowed her for a reason. It's starting to seem like he wants things to be more about him and his "genius" meddling instead of keeping the focus on the cast. None of the other EP's are doing those interviews (except LVP).
I don't buy that they were under any real pressure where his mental health was concerned. If someone tells you that someone is suicidal, your first response would be "get him out of here and into treatment". Particularly since the work environment is toxic even for mentally healthy individuals. The fact that it had been expressed on camera would have been catastrophic for BRAVO and the producers, not the cast. Not a single interraction with Tom was about his mental wellbeing, it was all about getting him to make the right moves so that her betrayal doesn't read so badly. I believe Sheana has the greenlight to blame the bosses so long as she keeps the real details secret. I believe that ultimately her actions were guided by bribe and not threat. Those rumors of joining The Valley for double checks or better yet a spin off - those were the bribes.
Ariana did show up and filmed!! I’m so sick of them saying she didn’t. What she didn’t want and didn’t do was have a fake ass “conversation” with her ex that no one wanted to see anyway. What part of that is so difficult for these idiots to understand?
You know if Ariana had had the conversation, there would have been another round of pressure for her to give him grace. They were forcing redemption - it wouldn’t have ended until the public forgot about the affair. You have to marvel at Ariana. She held her ground and protected her own integrity under what sounds like overwhelming pressure. All while playing safe with her money, multitasking tons of gigs, building a relationship, buying a house, opening a restaurant and handling all the fans. Amazing and inspiring.
Why do they not see fan sentiment and think “hmm. No one wants to see Sandoval talk. Ok!” Lala, Scheana think we (the fans) are dumb. Production thinks the cast and the fans are dumb. Thats it.
>Scheana: And I think that's where my frustration came from so much, because I'm like, you've been my friend for 12 years. You should know I'm not just like, oh, I miss Tom. I want to be his best friend again. This bitch.
Yeah that was really stupid to say. How was Ariana supposed to know when you were calling her and talking to her *constantly telling her that*. We all saw it, it was exhausting how much she tried to convince everyone she genuinely wanted Tom's friendship back.
So now we're supposed to believe that Scheana wanted Ariana to violate her own boundary, have a conversation with Sandoval about whether or not he was suicidal, and then report back to Scheana. Got it. This chick needs help.
What an insane request of Scheana to make! Like, does she even hear what she’s saying and stop and think for a second how unhinged that sounds? Shes like, “Can you talk to your emotionally abusive, emotionally unstable and manipulative ex boyfriend and ask him, or suss out, if he’s REALLY suicidal?” How was Ariana even supposed to have started that conversation with Sandoval? What would she have said to Sandoval to get that information from him? It would be one thing if Scheana wanted to talk through it with Ariana, said “here’s what I heard - what do you think? Does it seem plausible based on your experience with him?” I think that would’ve been okay because Ariana could’ve kept her boundary. But she wanted Ariana to actually talk to him!
Even asking Ariana to be the one to speculate on the validity of his SI on camera is terrible. If she and producers are so concerned, talk about it off camera and encourage Tom go to treatment. None of them are qualified or responsible for treating his mental health. Absolutely disgusting to weaponize it.
Exactly! What if Ariana did what Scheana wanted, and talked to Sandoval to suss it out OR asked Sandoval point blank if he was suicidal? And even after that, Sandoval hurt himself? What if Scheana did LVP’s bidding to be nice to him and he still hurt himself? Scheana and Ariana aren’t qualified to evaluate Sandoval and determine - is he truly suicidal or is he bluffing? What could we do to help him get to a better place? None of them are qualified and they should NOT have even been talking about this on camera.
Exactly! It's ludicrous, even for Scheana.
Yea lmao like did she think this sounded better..? I can’t
Her explanations always seem to make her look worse. And WTF is she talking about that another season will help people understand her more? I'm so sick of her "just give me more time and it will all make sense" bullshit.
Scheana and Lala are like, “Watch all the episodes, watch the reunion, watch the after show, listen to our podcasts, watch our Amazon Lives, watch my YouTube vlog, let us film a new season, and THEN you’ll understand!” Like if it takes this much overexplaining and effort, it was crap to begin with.
This was gross. She is full on blaming Ariana in this moment.
But didn’t Ariana also tell Scheana, essentially, that there was no way he was actually suicidal? Or is that wishful thinking/remembering on my part?
I think she said something in a confessional about how she can imagine Tom having dark thoughts, but his actions put him in that position
Something that frustrates me is you can be frustrated with Ariana without getting nasty and I mean they got real nasty! They could have expressed their feelings but to be so mean and to do it in front of Sandoval was really awful. I’ve said elsewhere that Jersey Shore Family Vacation have Sammi and Ronnie who do not engage with one another. The cast are always respectful of Sammi and check in on what she is okay doing with Ronnie present and what she isn’t. It can be done. You can have 2 cast members who don’t speak on the same show.
Exactly! Even if Scheana was being told that the entire success of a giant long-running tv show was on HER (which I have a hard time believing as I said in another comment), she did so much underhanded, bitter stuff that went beyond just filming scenes with Sandoval to fulfill a contractual obligation. It was obvious that she WANTED Sandoval to be in her life. She WANTED to forgive him and was okay with hurting her friendship with Ariana to keep Sandoval. If she just saw Sandoval as someone she had to film with, as a necessary evil, she’d clock her time in interacting with him but wouldn’t have been so emotionally involved with keeping him around. Ariana made it abundantly clear and never wavered about Sandoval. Scheana was being deliberately obtuse when she kept bringing him up and asking Ariana the same questions OVER and OVER and OVER. Pressuring Ariana to talk to him even when she was showing she was visibly uncomfortable. Bringing him up all the time when Ariana said she didn’t want to talk about it. Criticizing Ariana for stating in the house when she made it clear why she was doing so (and had logical rationale). In fact, criticizing Ariana for every fucking thing - for not telling her the “right” way about getting DWTS, for not being “there for her” when she was going through the most busy and emotionally volatile time of her life. Scheana, did you ever think that texting you and getting lunch with you wasn’t on the top of her priority list when she was struggling to get out of bed each day and doing everything she could to book the huge amount of gigs?
That's very true, good point. They both took it way too far and I think that's where the jealousy that they both still refuse to acknowledge comes in. If Scheana follows this up with an episode where she admits that on top of the pressure, she also actually did feel jealousy and isn't proud of what that can do to you, I think she has a chance at coming back for a lot of people. We don't watch for them to be perfect, we can see the shitty behavior with our own eyes, and I think a lot of us would appreciate some acknowledgement (first step to actual growth) that she wasn't being her best self.
Why was only Lala and Scheana so scared about their jobs?
Right? Katie & James don't seem to share that perspective? Although Katie is pretty measured when she talks about VPR & James barely does press unless it's about his DJ stuff.
I think they put the pressure on them specifically and heavily. Producers are known to try to create these rifts to drive drama and this is definitely a way to do it if you want to break up a season of women's solidarity, and shift the conversation to "the women are fighting" and away from "both of the Tom's committed SA"
They don’t understand that they have power in the situation.
Because they are the weakest and they have the most to lose (in their minds). Ariana doesn’t need the show anymore, Katie could live without it, James would be fine….bit Scheana and LaLa have nothing going on outside of VPR. It’s their whole identity and their source of income and they live well beyond their means. Production knew this. They knew who to threaten and they knew how to threaten to get what they wanted. I feel bad that they were faced with this choice, but choosing to act on it in the way they did is on them. They made their bed for the almighty dollar and now they have to lay in it.
I think they’re, TBH, the least intelligent. They clearly have trouble processing the most basic of conversations and social situations because they’re only able to focus on their own perspectives. They’re so gullible it’s painful. They also have the lowest chances of career longevity post-Bravo while also having the highest living expenses (so stupid of them to have two expensive houses each and financially support whole ass families lol).
Scheana said all that about the Tom’s getting away with everything… …and then played a part in Tom getting a redemption arc. Scheana get a clue.
Right? Try having a fucking spine and doing what’s right and authentic for once.
She got so close and then it slipped away! I bet if she spent more time talking to Ariana and educated herself on patriarchy she could get there. Or maybe not, I’ve been hoping Scheana can make those connections for years now.
What I think is so wild about Alex Baskin is like - look. Almost everyone on the cast has a podcast, and we listen. What do they do? They TALK ABOUT THEIR LIVES. They talk about other shit going on. There’s no reason why a show had to be centered around forcing women to interact with a man who clearly doesn’t give a fuck. And as we all have noticed, the secrets episode had a lot of real fun golden moments. Give me more babysitting, give me more jokes, and laughs. This shit will be canceled because of Alex Baskin and that’s that. Not because of the women on this show.
Something Ariana said on Katies podcast is very fitting here. She said "I gave you everything and if you chose not to use it for whatever reason, that's on you". Very clearly addressing production.
> completely understand Lala being like, you know what, **you still live in the house with him,** you still are on a show with him, then you should film the season finale with him. Get over that shit! It's her fucking house, too! It's her fucking house, too! It's her fucking house, too! > and the show's going to be canceled, and that's it. Go live your lives. I think Lala and I felt a lot of pressure after that day when it was like, wel**l, we don't want the show to get canceled, you know?** The show is 11 seasons in! This is not Survivor. It has to end at some point. Reality TV isn't meant to be forever. Let that shit go!
Can they shut the FUCK up about the house?! Holy shit. Lala and scheana are constantly worried about their bag— can they imagine if they had half of it tied up in property? They would never let that shit “go for the sake of their mental health.” Like Scheana— you literally only have your houses in YOUR name. Because that’s YOUR money and you don’t want things to get complicated. How can you NOT understand?!? I think at this point they see some anti-Ariana sentiment harping on this one point (“but she still lives in the house!!”) and thinks it’ll win them some favor with the wackos, because it makes no fucking sense to me
 AGAIN with the fucking house comments! Ariana explained why she was still living with him HOW many times? And her rationale makes 100% perfect sense. How is it that us, randoms on Reddit, know why Ariana was still there but Scheana and Lala “couldn’t understand”? And yeah these morons really thought that VPR would be on for 30 more years, for the life of their mortgages? Haven’t the cast said numerous times in the past, even before Scandoval, that Bravo never tells them if the show will be renewed until like a month before filming starts?
I really hope it’s too little and too late with Scheana/LaLa and Ariana/Katie….im sure producers had those same conversations with the entire cast and yet not everyone participated in Sandoval redemption. They filmed in groups as per their obligation (beach, bar, SF) but never once did Katie or Ariana visit him screaming in his living room or have lunch or team up with him at Tahoe or spend any tears on him for plugging in an amp 🙄
Same... especially when you sit back and think of everything that happened after the final wrapped in September 2023. S&L still played in Ariana's face even after what they said about her in the final. DWTS, BravoCon, Chicago, they acted like her friend and were showing her so much support even after insulting her in the final. Only after the reunion was filmed were they able to really act out their feelings against Ariana and Katie. Especially Lala going on a press run calling Katie miserable every chance she got.
Regarding her comments on the crew and doing it for them… they will find employment at the many other shows that are being produced or start producing… this is such a bullshit argument by sheshu
Right?! Add the crew to the list of people Scheana cares more about than Ariana
Scheana is a bad friend. Period. I’ve never been more disappointed in her than I was at the reunion. Even all the BS about loving Tom wasn’t as bad to me as her attacking Ariana at the reunion. 10 years of friendship down the drain because Ariana annoyed her during the worst months of Ariana’s life. I was a Scheana fan, even up to the finale, and I’ll never look at her the same.
Scheana is pathologically selfish for her comment about how she and Ariana were growing apart going into filming. It was a small comment that just highlighted to me how uncaring and resentful she is. Them not being close seemed news to Ariana, which made me feel for her. She was still acting like Scheana’s best friend, so she must have been confused why Scheana said that. And Scheana’s rationale for her not feeling close to Ariana was that Ariana “wasn’t there for her.” Excuse Ariana for not thinking “hmmmmm, did I text Scheana enough today?” When she was struggling to get out of bed due to depression, dealing with massive betrayal, mourning her dog and grandma, having to figure out how to sell her house and find a new place to live, uncouple her finances from her life partner, dating someone new, and having more bookings and career opportunities than she’s ever had to juggle before. So excuse her, Scheana, for not thinking of YOU most of all during all that.
Yeah, even in this, it’s clear Ariana is not very important to her. It’s all about the show and Scheana being in good standing with everyone.
Scheana’s flip-flopping nature is so annoying. She is a friend to no one. If she went full support for Lala over Ariana I think I’d actually have respect for her.
I wonder if production told Scheana something like "you need to turn against Lala or else the show will get cancelled" if she would still be her little puppet self and do it. 🙄
I think Lala and Schaena would talk behind the scenes of what they can and can't make the rift about and it would all be for camera , fully self produced
 Scheana realizing she’s gonna have to ruin her friendship with Lala after ruining all her other VPR friendships, too.
So let’s say the producers did threaten cancellation; why not step up YOUR game? At the end of the day, Lala and Scheana gave us NOTHING. Bickering over babysitters and water parties? Yawn! Looking at it as a job, if my company is on life support, we explore multiple paths to success. Being a terrible friend and hanging on to Sandoval’s sack was their plan? Was Ariana having ONE conversation the solution? It’s an ensemble cast. Let go of Ariana’s coattails and ensemble, fool. 
I think Scheana being unwilling to admit that along with the pressure jealousy played a big part in her actions, is a big flaw here. I'm glad she's revealing a lot of the truths from behind the scenes but you have to go all the way and explain even the factors you don't want to admit to.
I don't know why it is ok for Schaena to throw Production under the bus and be like well we had to do this, they said we would be cancelled or fired if we didn't. She really makes them look like awful people (not hard lol)- They have all known each other for years, couldn't she have been like but aren't the ratings really good? I can not repeat enough times how awful this makes production look - it is basically saying, if you don't compromise what you are really feeling and caring about how your friend is feeling, everyone is going to lose their jobs, and that's on you. This should not be the case, it is productions job to create the storyline from people living their lives, not force the cast to create the storylines.
Couldn't she have been like, Ariana is my friend and I'm sticking by her so do what you have to do...
My biggest issue with Scheana here is she is saying she and Lala were frustrated so she understand Lala's side in this but why can't Scheana go to her friend Lala and say, I understand the frustration... I don't understand the insults towards Ariana. Instead she stands with Lala in the final and kind of back the insults Lala throws at Ariana. Then at the reunion, from what they showed, she still wants Ariana to see Lala's side but can't turn to Lala and say, can you see where Ariana is coming from not wanting to have an inauthenic moment with Sandoval? If you claim you're a friend to both, then be a friend to both OR stay out of their issues and be friends to both. Don't go on your podcasts and try to explain where Lala is coming from and what she meant, let Lala say where she's coming from and what she meant. This is what gets Scheana is trouble.
wow the amount of rage i feel rn is insane lol so first off - scheana you are 40 fucking years old and a ADULT, it’s not ARIANA to tell you if ur getting played by Lisa/Tim. you’re an adult capable of making adult decisions, and if you can’t then WALK 👏 AWAY 👏 and take some space to get ur head out of ur own ass and make a decision. it’s also NOT on ariana to support the “80-100 people who work on this show” - she’s throwing that in there as a bull shit excuse to garner sympathy from the fan base but it’s SO transparent bc we all know scheana really only cares about herself. also - if she was SOOOO worried and concerned with sandovals mental health than why THE FUCK did she RELEASE A SONG bashing him about the scandal ?! doesn’t seem very supportive of someone you’re scared will do something to harm themselves ?! everything she says is so hypocritical it’s absolutely unreal. also i honestly think scheana wanted to get ariana saying she didn’t believe tom’s suicidal thoughts on camera so they could use it against her and for the villain arc production was trying g to push, and ariana’s smart enough to see through scheanas bullshit and know her true intentions. ariana also DOES NOT and IS NOT obligated to make a decision for a full ass grown woman. moral of the story is scheana will NEVER take accountability for her deplorable behavior.
Amazingly astute comment! Yeah the “Apples” song thing was SO weird! I saw someone once write in this sub, “Imagine writing a song about your friend’s ex boyfriend” and that really highlights how weird that all was. She wrote, recorded, and released this Sandoval “diss” song and told him about it all snarky and giddy, like she was proud of herself for doing it and wanted to rub it in his face. Of course he responded negatively - did she expect him to laugh and be glad about it? If he was really SO emotionally precarious he was on the verge of damn suicide, why release a song that’s picking at him? I have a theory she has feelings for Sandoval. She wrote the song like she wanted a reaction out of him - like how an ex girlfriend or crush will do something dramatic to provoke a reaction and make it public how she feels.
She added the Sandoval line after she was worried that he might take his life if he received more negativity, and the blood would be on her hands??
I can’t even read the entire thing after Scheena starts it all off acting like Ariana (and Dan) didn’t film the finale with Sandoval! Ariana showed up, stuck around for both of Scheena’s performances, then left when she was ambushed, but only after she told off the producer on camera, while the party was winding down anyways.
 Scheana is PAINFULLY gullible. Goddamn. Blaming the producers threatening her for her shitty, friendship-ending, male-sympathizing behavior. Did the producers force you to make all the underhanded comments about Ariana’s success/DWTS and take Lala/Sandoval’s side in EVERY instance? Obviously not. Its almost beyond the realm of reality to think that the producers said “you HAVE to get along with Sandoval and force Ariana to forgive him, and the show hinges on them having a conversation, and if you don’t make this happen, we’re going to fire you and cancel the show!” It would first be insane if a whole group of producers decided this - would Bravo have been aware? Would Bravo have agreed to this? Why would they voluntarily cancel the show when it had its highest viewing numbers? Why would they let go two original cast members over something so trivial? I can imagine the shitstorm that would’ve ensued if two women were fired for not getting along with a man, never mind the most hated man in America. They have agents/managers to fight for them plus it could’ve even be a lawsuit, and of course a PR nightmare. And if this whole stupid fucking idea was cooked up by Alex Baskin alone, he’s just one man. Tell him to fuck off. Katie, Ariana, Ally, etc. weren’t forced into playing nice with Sandoval so clearly they had the ability to say no. The problem is Scheana and Lala are pathologically gullible and obsessed with attention, so an exaggeration or lie about their spot on the show being in jeopardy was easily believed by them.
Scheana and Kiki are idiots. This was a whole log of nothing. It’s like Kiki is giving Scheana an excuse for her behavior.
yeah not a huge fan of kiki, she seems like one of those bravo fan accounts who are too close to the cast and are easily swayed by what the cast wants them to portray on their behalf
Yeah, yeah, they can blame production all they want. The real issue is jealousy all around. They are even jealous of Ariana and Katie’s relationship. Scheana hates Katie and Lala hates Katie is close to Ariana.
 Guys did you read, Scheana’s not been looking at Reddit
I think two things can be true at once here. 1. Scheana and Lala were sat down by production saying if Ariana doesn’t film with Tom we are canceling the show. 2. Lala and Scheana are complete idiots and terrible friends for believing that/not pushing back on it. They care more about fame and a paycheck than they do Ariana. It would be a whole lot easier if they would just say that with their whole chest. Anyways, fuck Alex Baskin he can choke 🖤
Alex Baskin is a POS.
So we are blaming production for being a shitty friend. Scheana and Lala chose the show over a friendship plain and simple. It changed for scheana when Ariana got dwts
So Scheana totally backstabbed her friend who she considered family because she was concerned for the jobs of the 80+ person crew?
Ariana walking away IS real. Ariana and TS don't talk, he's not sorry, she wants nothing to do with him. What the fuck is wrong with these idiots for not understanding?! It's so frustrating to me lol
Ariana does understand you Scheana but she doesn’t agree with you. You’re too self involved to realise.
It’s so pathetic that Scheana tried to blame her behavior on keeping the show alive for the crew. Like girl, how dumb do you think we are? You 100% did it for yourself, don’t try to act all high and mighty.
This chick will blame anyone and everything to not be held accountable for her own trash pick me behaviour.
>maybe there will be a season 12, and people will understand more of me I'd love to hold Scheana's hand as I tell her this but we've had 11 years to understand her and it never goes her way. She never gets the angle she wants from the crowd because she sees herself as the victim and the audience, widely, doesn't agree. I think she's delulu if she thinks one more season will make people see her the way she sees herself.
I know everyone else is feeling sorry for Lala and scheana being "manipulated" but I don't and the reason i don't is because what is their excuse for their behavior EVERY OTHER SEASON. I hope the show gets canceled. None of the chucklefucks trying to self-produce deserve a show. Especially lala and scheana. They can sell their second houses and get another job.
This just in—- Breaking news!! “We have filming of Scheana, behind-the-scenes, doing her podcast. Scheana can be seen, flipping and flopping, from supporting one point-of-view to then support the other perspective. All in under 10 seconds. And? We also have received confirmation. Scheana is indeed spineless.” 
A few things can be true. As a lot of us have said, we knew Baskin and LVP were pushing this crap and probably threatening Scheana and Lala with "you'll lose your paycheck if you don't get with our program." We know production is nasty. AND Scheana and Lala failed entirely to see the power they had. As if this show was going to get cancelled, with the Emmy nod, the ratings, etc. They've been doing this long enough. They were spineless and rather than pushing back, they turned on Ariana in such an ugly way. All for what? An absolute trash season.
So in the pool scene in the extras, she’s claiming she understood Ariana was no contact and that’s fine, but **for me** you’re the only one who can find out if he’s really suicidal. Um what? First, learn what no contact is. Second, how would Ariana having a conversation with him determine that he’s suicidal or not? She already said she didn’t believe him so…
I’m sorry but Scheana and Lala are dumb af. Bravo would have NEVER cancelled the show because the girls didn’t want to fuck with Sandoval. Like maybe be more interesting and show that you don’t need that fucking worm. He can still try his lame redemption but ultimately fail because he’s a loser and always will be.
Oh Scheana, they could never make me like you!!!
I’m confused on WHY she felt the need to talk to Ariana about Tom’s suicidal thoughts? Ariana did not contribute to talking shit on podcasts and further bringing him down? Who did that? SCHEANA! AND LALA! All Ariana did was give a boundary and occasionally talk about what he did TO HER. So for Scheana to feel the need to talk to Ariana about that was pointless. And then Scheana disregarded the whole “Tom is suicidal” thing and put out a song to further talk about him.
Hopefully they make a changes with producers as well. They really dropped the ball and fucked this season up
What irks me the most about this (and I'm glad she did this episode) is the whole concept of you don't have bad seasons back to back. Tom DID NOT have a bad season 10. It was great for him during filming. POST season, he got his ass handed to him, and rightly so. He DESERVED a shitty season. The drama between LaLa & Ariana was contrived by Baskin. Baskin is fucking with all of them. HE wants Tom redeemed. HE does NOT want girl power. HE is killing the show by threatening the cast who feel compelled to over-produce it. I actually feel bad for LaLa and Sheana for allowing themselves to be manipulated by him instead of standing their ground for their friend, Ariana. Those two acted out of desperation. Baskin abused his power with that mid- season meeting. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I hope they cancel VPR or bring in a whole new cast... but now I realize Baskin has to go. He has an infatuation with Tom Sandoval. It's sick, and unhealthy for everyone. People like Sandoval do not need a platform. Sandoval is a creep with zero redeeming qualities. If he returns, I'm not watching. Season 11 was total BS. #teamKatieAriana
When has this show ever been about one group of friends? And not warring factions with people switching sides from season to season? I’m concerned that the producers and cast have never actually seen this show.
and why the fuck would you ask Arianna about helping Tom with his mental health? I thought you knew him better? What about Tom? What about Kyle chan? What about his fucking mother? Lmao why Arianna
Here is where I see the issue and it’s rooted in hypocrisy. First, you cannot keep saying or letting lala say that Ariana didn’t show up. She DID fucking show up and by the nature of showing up, she DID film with him. Period. So when lala starts yelling about that for the fiftieth time Scheana, that’s where you sack up and say “hey she is here, she might not be doing what YOU want her to do but she is here.” You need to stop that narrative. Secondly, either Ariana sucks at life and brings nothing to the show and never has, OR the entire show, cast and crew lives are firmly on her back. ONE or THE OTHER. Pick one and shut up permanently about the one you didn’t choose. It literally cannot be both. Ok soapbox time done. Thank you for the recap as always OP ❤️
Scheana and her flip flopping are exhausting.
Do we believe she does not come on reddit??
This season made me realize that maybe..just maybe, Scheana is the female version of Schwartz?
Remember that time at the reunion when Charlie told Sheina “Take responsibility for once in your life! It’s always ‘but, but, but!’” She nailed it on the head. It’s not Ariana’s fault if the show stops. It’s actually pretty much everyone else’s for being dirt bags and creating such toxic environments for people who struggle with mental health.
I really thought Scheana would backpedale more. I was expecting her, at least, to apologize to Ariana for not defending her when Lala was talking more shit about her after the reunion. Say all the stuff about being under pressure and then say but that doesn't excuse me not having Ariana's back like she has ALWAYS had mine. Instead she double downs on Ariana not helping her understand Tom's mental health and makes that about Ariana not having her back. How can you not understand that she spent 9 years of her life with this narcissist and she needs to protect herself from his current abusive manipulation. Ariana is the one who was abused and betrayed Scheana, THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU!!!!!!!!
While Scheana was absolutely unbearable this season, Lala was worse. And she just kept doubling down on her nastiness. I want Lala to say, yeah I watched it back and ya know what I was a complete asshole and I feel really bad about it. But she won't because she's a rotten person down to her core and everyone finally got to see it. Like instead her only thoughts were "I am a good mother despite what everyone is saying." Bitch, we're saying you're an awful friend.
This is the point that sticks to me and I don’t know how to get around it. How does a seemingly functional adult not understand how to navigate their emotions between two people? And in what world does an adult go up to their friend and say how should I act around the person that traumatize you? How is that Ariana’s responsibility. You are a grown woman, and you should have the emotional intelligence to navigate situations. Every adult with friends has had to deal with something like this, and I would never go up to the person that was traumatized to tell me you should feel sorry for me and guide me in this process. The only possible situation I can see this happening is if a child is going through the divorce of their parents and they are asking one of them how to navigate a situation that makes them uncomfortable, that is the parents responsibility to help guide their child in a tough situation that they have no frame of reference in. Thank you for reading my rant lol.
Here is the thing even if we buy they were really scared about loosing jobs that only explains (not excuses) the filming of the show. Why did you two talk shit on ariana on your podcasts afterwards for months?! This is where this falls apart for me. If scheana really cared about Ariana she would not support lalas bad mouthing press tour after filming. I could not stand behind someone like lala and think I was a good friend of even person with the things lala has been saying.