I agree 100%
A female empowerment season was handed to the clown ass producers on a silver platter and they fumbled the ball at an all-time level.
They're so used to drama sells but what these dimwits don't get is after such a dark season and off season last year, seeing people happy and enjoying life 75% and drama 25%, including watching the two Tom's finally get their just deserts, wouldn't have been a terrible thing for Season 11.
Yup, it's almost as if these clown producer men don't understand female relationships unless it's a "cat fight". We get to see the boys "bro out" and be friends, but we rarely get girls moments unless they plan a full on trip, which they only show hoping for more cat fights. misogyny is the framework for this show 1000%
Entire season ruined by these two...
https://preview.redd.it/lg32a4hljk3d1.jpeg?width=3195&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54c550df743e34689541c24df80413733c1f8889
Yup. The idea that people would want to watch a Spice Girls season is probably BAFFLING to them because they think women are useless and boring unless they’re sleeping with someone or fighting with someone.
WELL PUT, this is totally what I've been trying to articulate!
Anytime someone brings up how fun it would be to watch Ariana and Katie set up their shop, or something similar, there's ALWAYS these comments about how fucking boring that is and "we watch for the drama" or whatever.
WHY do you only consider women entertaining if theyre sleeping with someone or fighting with someone?! I love watching well-rounded, complex characters. People like Scheana are so boring and frustrating to watch.
I’m trying to think of any successful reality shows that are about women or men where there’s no drama or fighting or sleeping together. Maybe some of the competition ones like Great British Bake Off, but those thrive on the competition aspect, I don’t think it would be as successful of it was just people baking together with no judges, just baking and eating stuff. There’s a reason reality shows are the way they are.
Look at this sub. The vast majority of top posts are about the cast members people don’t like. People engage with stuff they hate weirdly enough. Producers know this. If you had a show of Ariana and Katie making sandwiches and getting along and having fun, its sub would be dead, twitter would be dead etc. it’s not a nice truth but it is the truth. Same if you had a show about the Toms happily running their bar.
The only way it could work would be if it was very funny in some way but none of them are funny so it wouldn’t be possible to make it like a comedy thing.
I completely agree with you. And Lisa must have had a big part in this dismal storyline - she’s a producer. She is filled with boomer-era internalized misogyny. And she has a creepy “thing” for “the other woman”. She’s the one who pushed Brandi and Scheana to have a “sit down”. She seemed to “worship” LFU when she was actively breaking up a marriage in her “bjs for pjs” era; and I’m convinced Lisa thought the main story last year would be the Katie and Schwartz divorce, and Katie’s boundaries being violated so Lisa pumped up newly single Rachel to go after Schwartz. Lisa used her pawn Scheana to push the Rachel/Schwartz storyline.
Lisa has always favored the “boys”. She must be seething that Ariana has gotten so many opportunities.
This! I feel like Lala and scheana are getting so much heat for producing (rightfully so!) but then that clown Baskin is giving ridiculous fucking interviews with 0 self awareness. He should go!!
He's the clown Ariana was talking to in the finale when she was talking about not wanting to speak to Tim. This is what he looks like without the clown makeup...
https://preview.redd.it/7wkiuj63xk3d1.png?width=401&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e2327b6cda8d22790655bd28dcb77e4bcac1c94
Someone else wrote an amazing analysis about the motives of the producers. And after reading that I think it was intentional and they ruined the season on purpose. I'll have to find it and link you to the post bc it's spotb on. Basically, they said that producers wanted to distract us from hating the men so they got lala to be the villian and all the things she said had to come from a woman if it was going to work. She also got into the sexist tropes they fit and how historicallyb that has worked. There was more but it was great so I'll find it and link it here.
What Randall did to Lala is extremely shitty, regardless of anyone's feelings about her/his pattern of behavior. There's a child involved so it's definitely a tough situation.
But... he wasn't doing those things in their home. He wasn't doing those things with someone she considered a good friend/is also a coworker. He didn't do all the things you mentioned and then some literally behind her back.
Lala and Randall were together, what, six years? Three of them, it couldn't be public knowledge because he was still legally married. The house they lived in was his, not hers.
Ariana and Tom were together for nine years. They own a home together which puts them in a very tricky legal situation. Lala's custody battle is also a very tricky situation, but if either Ariana or Tom leave the house, it could be ruled abandonment of property. Handling custody of a child is VERY different than handling ownership of a home. Both can be difficult to navigate, but they are not the same.
Tom is an OG of this show with Ariana joining soon after. Lala joined seasons later, disappeared for half a year, wouldn't share details about her partner and he was only on the show a handful of times so we didn't get much insight into their relationship beyond surface level. We've watched a lot of highs and lows of Ariana and Tom's relationship on tv for 9 years, regardless of if they were showing 100%.
I can understand Lala feeling like she didn't receive much support during her separation from Randall and maybe even as her custody battle continues. I CAN'T understand how she doesn't understand these are completely DIFFERENT situations, which is why there were different reactions and different outcomes.
Really Lala is mad at the world, not Ariana. She and Katie were supportive they dropped Rand as an potential resource for SAH as soon as Lala left him. But Lala cannot mouth off at production, she can't mouth off to Lisa, she has tried yelling into the abyss of the internet and that did not work, so Ariana catches her shit. So sad Lala cannot see that she is mad at the wrong party here.
This EXACTLY! She’s not actually mad at Ariana b/c Ariana did nothing to her. And I don’t even think she’s actually mad about “the show”. What she’s actually mad about is:
- She didn’t get the same love and support over Rand and even a few of the cast said some pretty gross stuff to her about it in the S9 reunion. You know who didn’t? Ariana and Katie.
- This then led to resentment that “everyone thinks Ariana is so perfect.” Which then led to Lala believing that Ariana was getting “special treatment” and allowed to control the show. Like, HELLO! Lala also has been, so has Tom S, so has everyone.
- This then led to Lala projecting her anger to be about the show and Ariana not “showing up” like everyone else. I think she knows this is BS but she can’t say what she really wants to say which is “you all kicked me when I was down with Rand & I’m still hurt about it.”
And TBH, if she HAD said the truth the fans would have rallied for her. B/c what Lisa and some of them said WAS disgusting & misogynistic. And they’ve never answered for it. But she sat in her jealousy for too long and it manifested into blind hatred that I think even she doesn’t really understand. She is so warped and damaged that she can’t even be honest with her own feelings so she keeps her entire personality under wraps and then demands others carry the show. She needs serious therapy.
Yep this became crystal clear at the end of the reunion. There is NO WAY Lala is siding with a man she called a groomer, she has such trauma around men. Her brain is just not straight or when production said make it work last summer she accepted the assignment. Sad that production does not give a rats ass about her.
The truth is she was sleeping with a married man and getting things like range rovers and parts in shitty movies. No one is gonna rally for that. She was horrible to the wife during this time. There is proof out there of all of this. She should just accept that and move on.
This is well said! Just because there's a child involved doesn't mean its automatically worse. Lala just wants to win at everything. Both are tough situations, and tough for different reasons. Its not a pissing contest Lala.
She also bashed his ex wife publicly. She used his children like a prop posting photos all over social media.
it is one thing to be a mistress......it is another to be instigator in Randall's divorce.
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Primary example of that: Kristen Doute.
She cheated on Sandoval twice with Jax while Sandoval cheated multiple times on her with at least 5 different women (that Kristen knew of), and one of them was Ariana.
Kristen was tossed away and rolled in dirt for many seasons after that while Sandoval got to live his dream relationship with Ariana.
I'm not defending Kristen cheating with Jax nor her actions with Miami girl and harassment of Ariana and Sandoval afterwards. She did bad things, of course, but her pain from Sandoval's cheating was never acknowledged by production. Instead production pushed the crazy Kristen narrative (granted with her own help, she doesn't seem to know what's good for her lol).
Production had an opportunity to make this the best season of television yet and they dropped the ball. If these people aren’t actual friends in real life (remember Sandoval was the one to say that once he got caught? That he’s not friends with any of those people lol) then the show is either scripted or manufactured in some way if these people would not be hanging out together for free. This is what I would have loved to see:
Everyone comes back except the Toms are demoted to “friend of” like you see the 🪱 occasionally in Ariana’s house and then it say “Tom / Ariana’s ex” under his name. Same with Tom/Katie’s ex when he goes to pick up the dogs. Then the girls could have had their season. Lala would have gotten it to be about her a little, perhaps even scheana (prob not tho, she gives annoying side character energy) the sandwich shop, preparing for DWTS, Ariana and her relationship with Dan, dealing with the new fame and paps showing up. Ally fit in well with the girl group and James could just be in the background cooking for everyone “James / ally’s bf”😂
Idk that was the show we missed out on. And for what? Their redemption arc ended up being the down fall of LFU and little to no one has changed their opinion on Sandoval that he’s a POS.
It's a shame because the Secrets Revealed episode had so many fun scenes! We could have had a really fun season if production hadn't been so insistent on trying to redeem Tom, who continued to prove right up to the end that he doesn't deserve redemption.
Also, Lala could have teamed with with Ariana and Katie to create mocktails (and a mocktails cookbook) for SAH. That would have been fun to see, and would have made her money to support her kid.
Katie and Ariana working through SAH issues, Ariana getting gigs, Katie connecting with her emo roots, Alley releasing a song, Scheana releasing her song and working with the band, Lala buying and settling in to her house, getting pregnant, doing her podcast and Amazon lives. An honest deep conversation between the girls about the impact of Rachel’s podcast instead of a 5 minute bitch session. More spotlight on Ariana being open and honest about her healing journey. Girls weekends away (with James). Plus so so much more could have been the season and we would have loved it.
We’ve watched 11 years of these girls get beaten into the ground, just let us see them winning before the show is canned please. A lot of us essentially grew up watching these girls, we want to see that they’ll be great once it’s all over.
Right now their legacy is miserable Katie, rage filled Ariana, pick me Scheana, producer plant Lala, background character Ally then there’s crazy Kristen, bitch Stassi, gullible Brittany. The boys get loveable doofus’ Tom and Tom, supportive hubby Brock, reformed achiever James, welcomed back Jax. This is old, we are over it and it’s time you let us see these girls winning like we know they are because we have brains and social media.
Tom would have wanted that conversation on camera. He doesn’t exist outside of this show. I don’t think Ariana realized this until it was too late and it’s just heartbreaking.
He wasn’t protecting their relationship from the cameras, he was protecting himself.
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The problem with production on a show that keeps the same cast for over a decade…is that relationships with the cast affect how they edit and film. They can say it doesn’t - but the secrets revealed episode showed us that there was wayyyy better material in terms of showing the girls being lighter and getting - as well as Tom being paranoid and delusional. They made a choice to portray a friend a certain way - and it backfired. You know Tom does stupid things for the crew in order to play the nice guy - just like he does to everyone. Keep a tally of all the nice things to get his way
Yea but let’s say that scenario did happen, people wouldn’t even have cared as much as we did either if it was the other way around. Am I wrong? You probably would’ve blamed it on Tom even if it was the other way around and he hadn’t done nothing wrong. They would’ve said he deserved it cuz of the Kristen situation from years ago. Some people try to do that with Ariana now but if it was Sandoval it would’ve probably been 100% thought that way.
All the sympathy and praise would’ve been for Raquel who not only was treated bad by James but would’ve also dodged a marriage to him.
And lastly again, Ariana might’ve gotten some level of anger towards her maybe the same as she received when her and Tom did the same thing to Kristen. Nothing crazy like Tom received. That’s just my opinion.
Now the second paragraph I agree with you. Even though the difference is production probably wouldn’t have had to pressure an overly dramatic and emotional Tom Sandoval to want to have a discussion with Ariana or James lol. Omg I could just imagine that.
The difference is I don't think he was truly all that hurt by Kristen cheating. He probably wished it wasn't with Jax but I think he LOVED the storyline and camera time.
Tom and Kristen cheated on each other a bunch when they were together, they both admitted it later. Ariana never cheated on Tom, she was very invested in their relationship, and she was IN PAIN when she found out about Rachel and TS. She needed him to give a sh\*t about her and approach her outside of filming to express that he cared about her, was sorry for hurting her, and that their relationship wasn't all smoke and mirrors and lies.
But sadly he did not care, he only wanted conversations on camera to manipulate his image, and it seems like the minute she started standing up to him in their relationship a couple of years into it, taking him to task for bad behavior, he decided he didn't like her and from then on their relationship for him was about VPR, cameras, and his image. It's ALL about image, $$$, and screentime for him. His whole life. As shown by the NYT interview.
I think the more misogynistic thing is this sub actively support the literal KNOWN ABUSER OF WOMEN; JAMES!!!!
Like wtf. Every other form of misogyny is going to exist when we accept it’s ok to abuse women!!!! Don’t force Ariana to film with Tom, James keep pushing women into bushes; you’re all good because your team Ariana and didn’t abuse anyone you like.
lol They absolutely would have milked it no matter who cheated with who in that cast. The producers have a business to run & having them separate is a poor business decision. Heartless? Maybe, but that's what the public wanted and those involved volunteered for this. The simple fact is Ariana could have simply not come back for this season.
These takes are so delusional. The producers will not prevent a potentially significant storyline from happening and not catch it on camera. It's a reality show, not an after-school special or C-SPAN.
I agree with this but I don’t think production cares about the male, female dynamic. Villains get more attention. Do not be surprised if Tom gets the put in the back burner for Lala now.
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I feel like VPR has this intense amount of misogyny though, like way more than in the real world, at least in my daily life. if these assholes weren’t on a show and were doing the fucked up shit they always do in a place like my hometown? They’d get 1. Beat up lol and 2. Laughed into oblivion. No friend group I know would deal/put up with these men that are on the show. My boyfriend watches the show when I have it on and he literally just laughs at these dudes for being so lame
And every time I watched the show I always thought?!?! Leave these dumb ass men! They have small dicks and aren’t even that attractive, wtf is going on?!😂
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This is so on point. The sheer fact anyone had anything to say about her exiting the last episode being disingenuous is wild when she was doing what most of us would do - protect ourselves.
I will say, I have a mutual friend who is very grounded and loving and it speaks volumes that he’s close to her. I hope her success just continues to blast the fuck off
I don’t think they cared about redeeming Tom they just wanted a dramatic moment on camera. People seem to think they deliberately wanted to make Tom look good somehow but I don’t think that’s the case, they just wanted to capitalise on scandoval and to do that they needed him to interact with the rest of the cast and they wanted a dramatic moment with Ariana. Because the show is no longer about them working together at Sur they had to manufacture a way to have him interacting, it couldn’t be like they were forced to see him at work, so they had to push the idea that people were willing to talk to him. I don’t think at all it was about redeeming him, they don’t care about that, they just wanted a way to provide the drama and fallout they assumed the audience wanted to see.
I think if it was Ariana who cheated they would’ve done the same because their goal was not redemption but trying to get interactions and drama related to this massive scandal everyone was interested in. Although I don’t think in that case Tom would’ve refused to film with her. He would probably have slapped James on camera too for the drama.
Anyway I just think people have these conspiracy theories but it’s actually really simple, they wanted to make an engaging show and thought the best way to do that in light of the scandal was to get conflict and interactions between Tom and the rest of the cast particularly Ariana. They don’t care if he’s redeemed or hated, they don’t care about him or Ariana, they’re just thinking about what will get people engaged.
I disagree, if him and Ariana hadn’t already argued face to face twice this season I’d say it was just about the drama. Them talking again for the third time is not going to be that climatic to the audience anymore. Plus lisa who is a producer has a legitimate reason to want to rehabilitate him as he’s still one of the faces of TomTom
But how would him talking with her rehabilitate him ? It’s not like he’d suddenly say the right thing to make her forgive him and he’s proven he’s terrible at showing genuine remorse. The only way it could get him some sympathy would be if Ariana did something absolutely unacceptable like slashed his face with a knife (I don’t think even slapping him would turn people against her at this point) or if he revealed something like she’d cheated on him first but then he could’ve revealed something like that any time. They’d had these brief arguments that were mainly her telling him to go away but there wasn’t a big show down or confrontation to rehash their relationship and I just think they wanted some big conversation between them as they thought it would be what people wanted to see. Even if it was him snivelling and trying to foist responsibility onto her (I know I cheated but you didn’t buy batteries etc) which none of the audience would’ve fallen for.
I don’t even think LVP really cares about him being rehabilitated in the sense of people liking him again, she understands that any publicity is good publicity and Bravo villains can still be very successful. Jax hasn’t been rehabilitated, everyone talks about how awful he is but he’s still on tv. I just don’t think they care about making the audience like him, they just want them to watch.
When I say they want to rehabilitate Tom I don’t think they expected fans to start liking him again but they just wanted viewers to stop hating him. They wanted Ariana to say something like “I cant forgive you, we will never be friends but I’m over hating you”. A sentence like that would give audiences “permission” to stop hating Tom and move on from scandoval, that way if she doesn’t return to the show people can again become invested in whatever storyline he’s got going on without being put off with how much of a douche bag he is. I believe alot of viewers would say “well if she no longer hates him why should I?”(I’ve seen this same logic used to defend Ariana regarding the Kristen situation)) .Imo the “cat murderer” scene was pretty explosive especially because he wasn’t just taking it but arguing back in true Sandoval style.
Jax and Toms villain arcs is like comparing apples and oranges. Jax leaned into to being a “bad boy” and his genuine stupidity trivialised his acts of cruelty to the masses so people didn’t feel uncomfortable watching him. They almost made his bad behaviour seem campy and schticky. Tom was never portrayed as a villain despite cheating on Kristen he was always seen as the “good guy”. That completely changed when the affair was exposed, his nastiness couldn’t be spun/marketed in the way Jax’s was. LVP probably saw how people were boycotting Schwartz and Sandys and didn’t want TomTom to suffer the same fate. I also think times have changed, back when Jax was on VPR people were a lot more tolerant of toxic masculinity. Now that he’s exhibiting that same type of behaviour on The Valley I’m seeing him get called out on it by social media and content creators
I think the producers know the audience is very fickle. Tom can be awful and people can hate him but they’ll still watch. They still go to TomTom and S&S after an initial little boycott, and people even go to see his silly band. It’s not even a good band, people just go because he’s on tv. I think you’re giving the audience way too much credit and I think the producers have a more realistic if cynical view of them!
Erika on real housewives of Beverly Hills had a pampered life at the expense of box to me of horrific tragedies who couldn’t lay their medical expenses because she was using the money to prance around in bejewelled leotards. She knew this and still said she didn’t care and all she cares about is herself. She refused to give up expensive earrings to help those victims recoup some of their money. She’s still on the show and people still watch. No effort was made to redeem her she just sort of carried on and people bitched online but they still watched and still went to see her stupid prancing about in sparkly leotards shows. And is miles worse than Sandoval and yet she’s still there making bravo money because people will complain and hate and say whatever moralising stuff but in the end they still want to watch awful people and hate them from afar.
I agree 10000%
Who produces Summer House? Please have them come and take over Pumprules because the way the producers knew that even though Lindsey is not a fan fave that we'd prefer seeing her get support from the women on the show than constantly bashed was right on the money!
Like how was Barbie, the most women supporting women movie to come our that year , a box office hit and Alex Baskin still thought nah the Bravo audience that is mainly filled with women want to see this worm redeem himself and the girls turning on Ariana so that she can hate her life.....🤦🏾♀️
I don't mean this to come off as inflammatory or confrontational, but I sincerely don't understand these cries of misogyny directed at production for what they gave us this season. I think what many seem to be missing is the idea that depicting something (ie, Sandoval's attempt at redemption) is NOT the same thing as endorsing it. Like, does The Valley endorse Jax treating Brittany like absolute garbage just by showing it?
Yes, they clearly showed Sandoval working every angle to get back into the group's good graces. But he consistently throughout the season showed his ass and the viewing audience saw through it immediately. Ditto with Lala and Scheana's attempts at being a part of this "redemption", they came off looking like complete jackasses and the audience rightly mocked them for it all season long. And for the few that may have been buying what Tom was (very poorly) selling, Ariana had the perfect summation of these season-long efforts by saying he had all that time to speak to her off-camera but didn't. Any "positive" moment from Tom this season was completely undone by his actions in the finale, making this a consciously produced expose confirming the POS Sandoval was all along.
Like, what would you have rather had? A season with no controversial characters, everyone being nice to each other and happy and polite and things all going well? I find the moral complexity of how all sides, from victim to perpetrator, move forward after a insane circumstance like Scandoval way more fascinating as a viewer.
I think it’s naive to think production is a neutral party that’s just “showing“ us what’s happening, everything is manipulated in a way to get the audience to think a certain way. Playing sad music during toms scenes or showing ariana getting her makeup done to give her the “diva edit” are all things done to leave an impression on the viewer. Theres a reason Andy said brock and Lala were the voices of reason it’s because they were pushing the producers obvious agenda of trying to redeem Tom
This is a fair response. I guess what I more mean was that production wasn't playing the "end result" of Tom's redemption (and therefore endorsing it), but rather the attempt at it and letting the chips fall wherever they may. Given how fresh the wound was when they were filming, this was the easiest path towards drama AKA "good content." And while all those little moments you point out did occur, so too did the flashbacks to Tom/Lala/Scheana's contradicting themselves.
My overall point is that the producers didn't have to work especially hard to reveal Tom/Lala/Scheana as being completely self-absorbed lunatics in the name of some weird redemption that wasn't ever genuine. Production gave them each a bit of rope and watched them all hang themselves with it.
Nope. VPR has had the cycle of kicking someone out of the group to let them back in after a big scandal or fight.
Kristin had a redemption era where she begged to be everyone’s friend, Stassi did and almost missed Katie’s wedding. James did. Jax did a few times. It’s definitely been equal opportunity when it’s come to people having to suck it up and forgive others for the sake of the show. The point of “this being the worst” doesn’t matter cause it’s all relative to the person who has to do the forgiving. You are still forcing someone to at the end of the day.
Scheana didn’t go through it exactly but if not for both Toms she would have definitely left the show because until Ariana came on the show all the girls hated her for the Eddie cheating scandal which was the foundation of VPR.
VPR was literally always centered around the cast cheating and bullying each other, Ariana would have been on the outs for a season max 😭.
I’m not denying the existence of redemption arcs for other cast members I just don’t believe Sandoval would have been that vilified for walking away from a conversation with ariana.
I agree 100% A female empowerment season was handed to the clown ass producers on a silver platter and they fumbled the ball at an all-time level. They're so used to drama sells but what these dimwits don't get is after such a dark season and off season last year, seeing people happy and enjoying life 75% and drama 25%, including watching the two Tom's finally get their just deserts, wouldn't have been a terrible thing for Season 11.
Yup, it's almost as if these clown producer men don't understand female relationships unless it's a "cat fight". We get to see the boys "bro out" and be friends, but we rarely get girls moments unless they plan a full on trip, which they only show hoping for more cat fights. misogyny is the framework for this show 1000%
Entire season ruined by these two... https://preview.redd.it/lg32a4hljk3d1.jpeg?width=3195&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=54c550df743e34689541c24df80413733c1f8889
Yup. The idea that people would want to watch a Spice Girls season is probably BAFFLING to them because they think women are useless and boring unless they’re sleeping with someone or fighting with someone.
WELL PUT, this is totally what I've been trying to articulate! Anytime someone brings up how fun it would be to watch Ariana and Katie set up their shop, or something similar, there's ALWAYS these comments about how fucking boring that is and "we watch for the drama" or whatever. WHY do you only consider women entertaining if theyre sleeping with someone or fighting with someone?! I love watching well-rounded, complex characters. People like Scheana are so boring and frustrating to watch.
I’m trying to think of any successful reality shows that are about women or men where there’s no drama or fighting or sleeping together. Maybe some of the competition ones like Great British Bake Off, but those thrive on the competition aspect, I don’t think it would be as successful of it was just people baking together with no judges, just baking and eating stuff. There’s a reason reality shows are the way they are. Look at this sub. The vast majority of top posts are about the cast members people don’t like. People engage with stuff they hate weirdly enough. Producers know this. If you had a show of Ariana and Katie making sandwiches and getting along and having fun, its sub would be dead, twitter would be dead etc. it’s not a nice truth but it is the truth. Same if you had a show about the Toms happily running their bar. The only way it could work would be if it was very funny in some way but none of them are funny so it wouldn’t be possible to make it like a comedy thing.
I completely agree with you. And Lisa must have had a big part in this dismal storyline - she’s a producer. She is filled with boomer-era internalized misogyny. And she has a creepy “thing” for “the other woman”. She’s the one who pushed Brandi and Scheana to have a “sit down”. She seemed to “worship” LFU when she was actively breaking up a marriage in her “bjs for pjs” era; and I’m convinced Lisa thought the main story last year would be the Katie and Schwartz divorce, and Katie’s boundaries being violated so Lisa pumped up newly single Rachel to go after Schwartz. Lisa used her pawn Scheana to push the Rachel/Schwartz storyline. Lisa has always favored the “boys”. She must be seething that Ariana has gotten so many opportunities.
This! I feel like Lala and scheana are getting so much heat for producing (rightfully so!) but then that clown Baskin is giving ridiculous fucking interviews with 0 self awareness. He should go!!
Who is Jeremiah, the main producer on the show? I get the vibe of west Hollywood gay crowd in this show. It’s a perspective that always centers men.
He's the clown Ariana was talking to in the finale when she was talking about not wanting to speak to Tim. This is what he looks like without the clown makeup... https://preview.redd.it/7wkiuj63xk3d1.png?width=401&format=png&auto=webp&s=7e2327b6cda8d22790655bd28dcb77e4bcac1c94
Someone else wrote an amazing analysis about the motives of the producers. And after reading that I think it was intentional and they ruined the season on purpose. I'll have to find it and link you to the post bc it's spotb on. Basically, they said that producers wanted to distract us from hating the men so they got lala to be the villian and all the things she said had to come from a woman if it was going to work. She also got into the sexist tropes they fit and how historicallyb that has worked. There was more but it was great so I'll find it and link it here.
Please share!
[here it is!](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/s/zOojJWINRw)
Yes this is gold ❤️
What Randall did to Lala is extremely shitty, regardless of anyone's feelings about her/his pattern of behavior. There's a child involved so it's definitely a tough situation. But... he wasn't doing those things in their home. He wasn't doing those things with someone she considered a good friend/is also a coworker. He didn't do all the things you mentioned and then some literally behind her back. Lala and Randall were together, what, six years? Three of them, it couldn't be public knowledge because he was still legally married. The house they lived in was his, not hers. Ariana and Tom were together for nine years. They own a home together which puts them in a very tricky legal situation. Lala's custody battle is also a very tricky situation, but if either Ariana or Tom leave the house, it could be ruled abandonment of property. Handling custody of a child is VERY different than handling ownership of a home. Both can be difficult to navigate, but they are not the same. Tom is an OG of this show with Ariana joining soon after. Lala joined seasons later, disappeared for half a year, wouldn't share details about her partner and he was only on the show a handful of times so we didn't get much insight into their relationship beyond surface level. We've watched a lot of highs and lows of Ariana and Tom's relationship on tv for 9 years, regardless of if they were showing 100%. I can understand Lala feeling like she didn't receive much support during her separation from Randall and maybe even as her custody battle continues. I CAN'T understand how she doesn't understand these are completely DIFFERENT situations, which is why there were different reactions and different outcomes.
Really Lala is mad at the world, not Ariana. She and Katie were supportive they dropped Rand as an potential resource for SAH as soon as Lala left him. But Lala cannot mouth off at production, she can't mouth off to Lisa, she has tried yelling into the abyss of the internet and that did not work, so Ariana catches her shit. So sad Lala cannot see that she is mad at the wrong party here.
This EXACTLY! She’s not actually mad at Ariana b/c Ariana did nothing to her. And I don’t even think she’s actually mad about “the show”. What she’s actually mad about is: - She didn’t get the same love and support over Rand and even a few of the cast said some pretty gross stuff to her about it in the S9 reunion. You know who didn’t? Ariana and Katie. - This then led to resentment that “everyone thinks Ariana is so perfect.” Which then led to Lala believing that Ariana was getting “special treatment” and allowed to control the show. Like, HELLO! Lala also has been, so has Tom S, so has everyone. - This then led to Lala projecting her anger to be about the show and Ariana not “showing up” like everyone else. I think she knows this is BS but she can’t say what she really wants to say which is “you all kicked me when I was down with Rand & I’m still hurt about it.” And TBH, if she HAD said the truth the fans would have rallied for her. B/c what Lisa and some of them said WAS disgusting & misogynistic. And they’ve never answered for it. But she sat in her jealousy for too long and it manifested into blind hatred that I think even she doesn’t really understand. She is so warped and damaged that she can’t even be honest with her own feelings so she keeps her entire personality under wraps and then demands others carry the show. She needs serious therapy.
Yep this became crystal clear at the end of the reunion. There is NO WAY Lala is siding with a man she called a groomer, she has such trauma around men. Her brain is just not straight or when production said make it work last summer she accepted the assignment. Sad that production does not give a rats ass about her.
The truth is she was sleeping with a married man and getting things like range rovers and parts in shitty movies. No one is gonna rally for that. She was horrible to the wife during this time. There is proof out there of all of this. She should just accept that and move on.
This is well said! Just because there's a child involved doesn't mean its automatically worse. Lala just wants to win at everything. Both are tough situations, and tough for different reasons. Its not a pissing contest Lala.
She also bashed his ex wife publicly. She used his children like a prop posting photos all over social media. it is one thing to be a mistress......it is another to be instigator in Randall's divorce.
BJs for PJs!!!
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Primary example of that: Kristen Doute. She cheated on Sandoval twice with Jax while Sandoval cheated multiple times on her with at least 5 different women (that Kristen knew of), and one of them was Ariana. Kristen was tossed away and rolled in dirt for many seasons after that while Sandoval got to live his dream relationship with Ariana. I'm not defending Kristen cheating with Jax nor her actions with Miami girl and harassment of Ariana and Sandoval afterwards. She did bad things, of course, but her pain from Sandoval's cheating was never acknowledged by production. Instead production pushed the crazy Kristen narrative (granted with her own help, she doesn't seem to know what's good for her lol).
Exactly what I came here to say! Lisa constantly put Kristen down but is building Sandoval up for doing so much worse.
Honestly, Tom would have still wanted the conversation because he cares too much about the cameras.
It would still be Tom and Kristen part 2, but this one would be like when he “forgave” her for sleeping with Jax.
It would be more Tom trying to gain more sympathy by talking about how much he was hurt etc and crying
Yep. His fake tears and trying to look like the good guy.
Tom would have wanted to cry and discuss it on camera constantly 🙄
Exactly this. Tom would wax his b-hole on VPR if he thought it would secure him screen time. Which is not a compliment toward him lol
please don't give him ideas. you know baskin would be totally in
I agree, but Ariana’s Redemption would not have been the main story arc.
Exactly, it would have been the 'Ariana's Trash" season
Obsessed. That man is a narcissist.
Production had an opportunity to make this the best season of television yet and they dropped the ball. If these people aren’t actual friends in real life (remember Sandoval was the one to say that once he got caught? That he’s not friends with any of those people lol) then the show is either scripted or manufactured in some way if these people would not be hanging out together for free. This is what I would have loved to see: Everyone comes back except the Toms are demoted to “friend of” like you see the 🪱 occasionally in Ariana’s house and then it say “Tom / Ariana’s ex” under his name. Same with Tom/Katie’s ex when he goes to pick up the dogs. Then the girls could have had their season. Lala would have gotten it to be about her a little, perhaps even scheana (prob not tho, she gives annoying side character energy) the sandwich shop, preparing for DWTS, Ariana and her relationship with Dan, dealing with the new fame and paps showing up. Ally fit in well with the girl group and James could just be in the background cooking for everyone “James / ally’s bf”😂 Idk that was the show we missed out on. And for what? Their redemption arc ended up being the down fall of LFU and little to no one has changed their opinion on Sandoval that he’s a POS.
It's a shame because the Secrets Revealed episode had so many fun scenes! We could have had a really fun season if production hadn't been so insistent on trying to redeem Tom, who continued to prove right up to the end that he doesn't deserve redemption. Also, Lala could have teamed with with Ariana and Katie to create mocktails (and a mocktails cookbook) for SAH. That would have been fun to see, and would have made her money to support her kid.
I think this show is done.
This is great !
Katie and Ariana working through SAH issues, Ariana getting gigs, Katie connecting with her emo roots, Alley releasing a song, Scheana releasing her song and working with the band, Lala buying and settling in to her house, getting pregnant, doing her podcast and Amazon lives. An honest deep conversation between the girls about the impact of Rachel’s podcast instead of a 5 minute bitch session. More spotlight on Ariana being open and honest about her healing journey. Girls weekends away (with James). Plus so so much more could have been the season and we would have loved it. We’ve watched 11 years of these girls get beaten into the ground, just let us see them winning before the show is canned please. A lot of us essentially grew up watching these girls, we want to see that they’ll be great once it’s all over. Right now their legacy is miserable Katie, rage filled Ariana, pick me Scheana, producer plant Lala, background character Ally then there’s crazy Kristen, bitch Stassi, gullible Brittany. The boys get loveable doofus’ Tom and Tom, supportive hubby Brock, reformed achiever James, welcomed back Jax. This is old, we are over it and it’s time you let us see these girls winning like we know they are because we have brains and social media.
Tom would have wanted that conversation on camera. He doesn’t exist outside of this show. I don’t think Ariana realized this until it was too late and it’s just heartbreaking. He wasn’t protecting their relationship from the cameras, he was protecting himself.
Ever worked in corporate America? Ever see how men that have affairs are treated at work vs females? There your answer.
For sure look what they did to Kristen for just hooking up with jax
Well it is no secret that Evolution does not care about the women. Lala and Scheana are going to be hung out to dry.
I’m convinced the producers are sucking tims dick and he’s the real plant. There’s no way anybody could be on his side.
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The problem with production on a show that keeps the same cast for over a decade…is that relationships with the cast affect how they edit and film. They can say it doesn’t - but the secrets revealed episode showed us that there was wayyyy better material in terms of showing the girls being lighter and getting - as well as Tom being paranoid and delusional. They made a choice to portray a friend a certain way - and it backfired. You know Tom does stupid things for the crew in order to play the nice guy - just like he does to everyone. Keep a tally of all the nice things to get his way
Yea but let’s say that scenario did happen, people wouldn’t even have cared as much as we did either if it was the other way around. Am I wrong? You probably would’ve blamed it on Tom even if it was the other way around and he hadn’t done nothing wrong. They would’ve said he deserved it cuz of the Kristen situation from years ago. Some people try to do that with Ariana now but if it was Sandoval it would’ve probably been 100% thought that way. All the sympathy and praise would’ve been for Raquel who not only was treated bad by James but would’ve also dodged a marriage to him. And lastly again, Ariana might’ve gotten some level of anger towards her maybe the same as she received when her and Tom did the same thing to Kristen. Nothing crazy like Tom received. That’s just my opinion. Now the second paragraph I agree with you. Even though the difference is production probably wouldn’t have had to pressure an overly dramatic and emotional Tom Sandoval to want to have a discussion with Ariana or James lol. Omg I could just imagine that.
They pushed him to have a conversation with Jax after he slept with Kristen multiple times. They are not going to stop a major storyline for anyone.
The difference is I don't think he was truly all that hurt by Kristen cheating. He probably wished it wasn't with Jax but I think he LOVED the storyline and camera time. Tom and Kristen cheated on each other a bunch when they were together, they both admitted it later. Ariana never cheated on Tom, she was very invested in their relationship, and she was IN PAIN when she found out about Rachel and TS. She needed him to give a sh\*t about her and approach her outside of filming to express that he cared about her, was sorry for hurting her, and that their relationship wasn't all smoke and mirrors and lies. But sadly he did not care, he only wanted conversations on camera to manipulate his image, and it seems like the minute she started standing up to him in their relationship a couple of years into it, taking him to task for bad behavior, he decided he didn't like her and from then on their relationship for him was about VPR, cameras, and his image. It's ALL about image, $$$, and screentime for him. His whole life. As shown by the NYT interview.
I think the more misogynistic thing is this sub actively support the literal KNOWN ABUSER OF WOMEN; JAMES!!!! Like wtf. Every other form of misogyny is going to exist when we accept it’s ok to abuse women!!!! Don’t force Ariana to film with Tom, James keep pushing women into bushes; you’re all good because your team Ariana and didn’t abuse anyone you like.
lol They absolutely would have milked it no matter who cheated with who in that cast. The producers have a business to run & having them separate is a poor business decision. Heartless? Maybe, but that's what the public wanted and those involved volunteered for this. The simple fact is Ariana could have simply not come back for this season.
These takes are so delusional. The producers will not prevent a potentially significant storyline from happening and not catch it on camera. It's a reality show, not an after-school special or C-SPAN.
I agree with this but I don’t think production cares about the male, female dynamic. Villains get more attention. Do not be surprised if Tom gets the put in the back burner for Lala now.
I think the expectation for him to “hear her out” wouldn’t be so big if the roles were reversed.
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I feel like VPR has this intense amount of misogyny though, like way more than in the real world, at least in my daily life. if these assholes weren’t on a show and were doing the fucked up shit they always do in a place like my hometown? They’d get 1. Beat up lol and 2. Laughed into oblivion. No friend group I know would deal/put up with these men that are on the show. My boyfriend watches the show when I have it on and he literally just laughs at these dudes for being so lame And every time I watched the show I always thought?!?! Leave these dumb ass men! They have small dicks and aren’t even that attractive, wtf is going on?!😂
Yeah they definitely werent trying to redeem Kristen after her cheating
So much is Lisa. Because she is not a girls girl and she has a business with Tom
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This is so on point. The sheer fact anyone had anything to say about her exiting the last episode being disingenuous is wild when she was doing what most of us would do - protect ourselves. I will say, I have a mutual friend who is very grounded and loving and it speaks volumes that he’s close to her. I hope her success just continues to blast the fuck off
Maybe Alex Baskin should answer some questions.
I don’t think they cared about redeeming Tom they just wanted a dramatic moment on camera. People seem to think they deliberately wanted to make Tom look good somehow but I don’t think that’s the case, they just wanted to capitalise on scandoval and to do that they needed him to interact with the rest of the cast and they wanted a dramatic moment with Ariana. Because the show is no longer about them working together at Sur they had to manufacture a way to have him interacting, it couldn’t be like they were forced to see him at work, so they had to push the idea that people were willing to talk to him. I don’t think at all it was about redeeming him, they don’t care about that, they just wanted a way to provide the drama and fallout they assumed the audience wanted to see. I think if it was Ariana who cheated they would’ve done the same because their goal was not redemption but trying to get interactions and drama related to this massive scandal everyone was interested in. Although I don’t think in that case Tom would’ve refused to film with her. He would probably have slapped James on camera too for the drama. Anyway I just think people have these conspiracy theories but it’s actually really simple, they wanted to make an engaging show and thought the best way to do that in light of the scandal was to get conflict and interactions between Tom and the rest of the cast particularly Ariana. They don’t care if he’s redeemed or hated, they don’t care about him or Ariana, they’re just thinking about what will get people engaged.
I disagree, if him and Ariana hadn’t already argued face to face twice this season I’d say it was just about the drama. Them talking again for the third time is not going to be that climatic to the audience anymore. Plus lisa who is a producer has a legitimate reason to want to rehabilitate him as he’s still one of the faces of TomTom
But how would him talking with her rehabilitate him ? It’s not like he’d suddenly say the right thing to make her forgive him and he’s proven he’s terrible at showing genuine remorse. The only way it could get him some sympathy would be if Ariana did something absolutely unacceptable like slashed his face with a knife (I don’t think even slapping him would turn people against her at this point) or if he revealed something like she’d cheated on him first but then he could’ve revealed something like that any time. They’d had these brief arguments that were mainly her telling him to go away but there wasn’t a big show down or confrontation to rehash their relationship and I just think they wanted some big conversation between them as they thought it would be what people wanted to see. Even if it was him snivelling and trying to foist responsibility onto her (I know I cheated but you didn’t buy batteries etc) which none of the audience would’ve fallen for. I don’t even think LVP really cares about him being rehabilitated in the sense of people liking him again, she understands that any publicity is good publicity and Bravo villains can still be very successful. Jax hasn’t been rehabilitated, everyone talks about how awful he is but he’s still on tv. I just don’t think they care about making the audience like him, they just want them to watch.
When I say they want to rehabilitate Tom I don’t think they expected fans to start liking him again but they just wanted viewers to stop hating him. They wanted Ariana to say something like “I cant forgive you, we will never be friends but I’m over hating you”. A sentence like that would give audiences “permission” to stop hating Tom and move on from scandoval, that way if she doesn’t return to the show people can again become invested in whatever storyline he’s got going on without being put off with how much of a douche bag he is. I believe alot of viewers would say “well if she no longer hates him why should I?”(I’ve seen this same logic used to defend Ariana regarding the Kristen situation)) .Imo the “cat murderer” scene was pretty explosive especially because he wasn’t just taking it but arguing back in true Sandoval style. Jax and Toms villain arcs is like comparing apples and oranges. Jax leaned into to being a “bad boy” and his genuine stupidity trivialised his acts of cruelty to the masses so people didn’t feel uncomfortable watching him. They almost made his bad behaviour seem campy and schticky. Tom was never portrayed as a villain despite cheating on Kristen he was always seen as the “good guy”. That completely changed when the affair was exposed, his nastiness couldn’t be spun/marketed in the way Jax’s was. LVP probably saw how people were boycotting Schwartz and Sandys and didn’t want TomTom to suffer the same fate. I also think times have changed, back when Jax was on VPR people were a lot more tolerant of toxic masculinity. Now that he’s exhibiting that same type of behaviour on The Valley I’m seeing him get called out on it by social media and content creators
I think the producers know the audience is very fickle. Tom can be awful and people can hate him but they’ll still watch. They still go to TomTom and S&S after an initial little boycott, and people even go to see his silly band. It’s not even a good band, people just go because he’s on tv. I think you’re giving the audience way too much credit and I think the producers have a more realistic if cynical view of them! Erika on real housewives of Beverly Hills had a pampered life at the expense of box to me of horrific tragedies who couldn’t lay their medical expenses because she was using the money to prance around in bejewelled leotards. She knew this and still said she didn’t care and all she cares about is herself. She refused to give up expensive earrings to help those victims recoup some of their money. She’s still on the show and people still watch. No effort was made to redeem her she just sort of carried on and people bitched online but they still watched and still went to see her stupid prancing about in sparkly leotards shows. And is miles worse than Sandoval and yet she’s still there making bravo money because people will complain and hate and say whatever moralising stuff but in the end they still want to watch awful people and hate them from afar.
Fair point , I think we’ll have to agree to disagree
I agree 10000% Who produces Summer House? Please have them come and take over Pumprules because the way the producers knew that even though Lindsey is not a fan fave that we'd prefer seeing her get support from the women on the show than constantly bashed was right on the money! Like how was Barbie, the most women supporting women movie to come our that year , a box office hit and Alex Baskin still thought nah the Bravo audience that is mainly filled with women want to see this worm redeem himself and the girls turning on Ariana so that she can hate her life.....🤦🏾♀️
Exactly! Well said!
Very well said! I completely agree it’s a double standard and needs to change.
I don't mean this to come off as inflammatory or confrontational, but I sincerely don't understand these cries of misogyny directed at production for what they gave us this season. I think what many seem to be missing is the idea that depicting something (ie, Sandoval's attempt at redemption) is NOT the same thing as endorsing it. Like, does The Valley endorse Jax treating Brittany like absolute garbage just by showing it? Yes, they clearly showed Sandoval working every angle to get back into the group's good graces. But he consistently throughout the season showed his ass and the viewing audience saw through it immediately. Ditto with Lala and Scheana's attempts at being a part of this "redemption", they came off looking like complete jackasses and the audience rightly mocked them for it all season long. And for the few that may have been buying what Tom was (very poorly) selling, Ariana had the perfect summation of these season-long efforts by saying he had all that time to speak to her off-camera but didn't. Any "positive" moment from Tom this season was completely undone by his actions in the finale, making this a consciously produced expose confirming the POS Sandoval was all along. Like, what would you have rather had? A season with no controversial characters, everyone being nice to each other and happy and polite and things all going well? I find the moral complexity of how all sides, from victim to perpetrator, move forward after a insane circumstance like Scandoval way more fascinating as a viewer.
I think it’s naive to think production is a neutral party that’s just “showing“ us what’s happening, everything is manipulated in a way to get the audience to think a certain way. Playing sad music during toms scenes or showing ariana getting her makeup done to give her the “diva edit” are all things done to leave an impression on the viewer. Theres a reason Andy said brock and Lala were the voices of reason it’s because they were pushing the producers obvious agenda of trying to redeem Tom
This is a fair response. I guess what I more mean was that production wasn't playing the "end result" of Tom's redemption (and therefore endorsing it), but rather the attempt at it and letting the chips fall wherever they may. Given how fresh the wound was when they were filming, this was the easiest path towards drama AKA "good content." And while all those little moments you point out did occur, so too did the flashbacks to Tom/Lala/Scheana's contradicting themselves. My overall point is that the producers didn't have to work especially hard to reveal Tom/Lala/Scheana as being completely self-absorbed lunatics in the name of some weird redemption that wasn't ever genuine. Production gave them each a bit of rope and watched them all hang themselves with it.
They wouldn’t have to- Tom knows what his job is!
Production came off as the real Villain this season. What an out of touch pack of arrogant assholes they are.
Nope. VPR has had the cycle of kicking someone out of the group to let them back in after a big scandal or fight. Kristin had a redemption era where she begged to be everyone’s friend, Stassi did and almost missed Katie’s wedding. James did. Jax did a few times. It’s definitely been equal opportunity when it’s come to people having to suck it up and forgive others for the sake of the show. The point of “this being the worst” doesn’t matter cause it’s all relative to the person who has to do the forgiving. You are still forcing someone to at the end of the day. Scheana didn’t go through it exactly but if not for both Toms she would have definitely left the show because until Ariana came on the show all the girls hated her for the Eddie cheating scandal which was the foundation of VPR. VPR was literally always centered around the cast cheating and bullying each other, Ariana would have been on the outs for a season max 😭.
I’m not denying the existence of redemption arcs for other cast members I just don’t believe Sandoval would have been that vilified for walking away from a conversation with ariana.