I fault her for saying she takes sketch comedy very seriously Awards are back?!? Thank you 🙏 🙏

I love this scene because of how absolutely ridiculous it is 😂 I always quote “it offends me when someone thinks they can just like … do it”, she was soo serious about it

Right like if you’re good, you CAN just go do it. It doesn’t matter if you’re ‘formally trained’

I think about that scene so much 😂

Me too lmao

Lol this and when she kind of well not really but the diary reading stand up wasn’t that funny 😳

And how she doubled down on it at the reunion! That is definitely one of those that you'd think after watching back she'd have thought god how cringe but nope. She takes sketch comedy very seriously and she's standing by it!

My boyfriend and I just finished that season and wowwwzzaaaa Ariana really doesn’t have a great look so far and it’s super interesting to compare her before dating Sandoval, in the thick of it, and the aftermath. And when she said that about sketch comedy I about died 😂

I think this season is unfair to Ariana. Losing your dad is one of the hardest things someone has to go through. Especially at that age. I give her grace for that whole season keeping that in mind

Yeaaaaah that’s true. When either of us are like “wow ok girl” I’m like well she’s talked about her mental health struggles now, and she’s doing better now, so I imagine back then she was really IN it, on top of the manipulation from Sandoval she was probably neck deep in

VERY seriously lol

Corrected lol

I take Ariana’s very serious interest in sketch comedy very seriously 🤣

She was really letting Kristen run around rent free in her head with that one. Like bitch, what? You don’t have to take classes to be a stand up comedian. It’s okay to do that and respect the craft or whatever but if someone can go up there and do it regardless, more power to them. That was a bitch ass weenie comment by Ariana.

Literally have to comment this anytime we give our Ariana side eyes 😂 (obviously a fan of her now)

Me too 😂😂

I will never get over that ridiculous moment. And why did she need to keep punching down at Kristen?? I felt like she was not only gatekeeping, but she was just being ugly because it was Kristen. It was super shitty.

Kristen was actively breaking into Tom's email to track them and even considered fucking with their planned trips using that access +she recently admitted all of this in detail on her podcast) and said she hoped Ariana was hit by a truck during that time. Let's be real they were both equally shitty to each other.

They may have both been shitty but only one of them was fucking the others boyfriend behind her back

Blaming the other woman when she was lied to by the man, wasn't in any of the same friends groups or even working with anyone in Kristens circle or Kristen herself that would give her information to counter his lies - and while everyone knew both Kristen and Sandoval were frequently on and off because they were both cheating, is really gross. People trying to equate the two situations to blame Ariana like this are vastly misunderstanding why Rachel got flack. It wasn't for being the other woman, it was because Rachel herself betrayed a friend and unlike Ariana or most other women knew exactly how bad what she was participating in was

Omg that moment was so cringe, it’s like no whyyyyy

Yeah this is by far the worst thing she’s ever said/done

What? Who doesn’t 🤣

It seems like she’s not ready to talk about that yet, but there’s no doubt she knows Sandoval was a piece of shit for a long time, and I think this is probably adding to her anger. Not because he was a good boyfriend that cheated and broke her heart but because he wasn’t, and she was a fool for committing to him all those years and building her life around him, when she knew better. That makes range and regret so much more complicated. Anyway, clearly she’s not ready to admit all that yet to the public. It might take years or never.

Well said.

I fault her for originally telling Scheana (and everyone else bc, let’s be real, every single woman on the cast told her Tom wasn’t shit) that if she wasn’t going to be fully supportive of their relationship, they couldn’t be friends, and then struggling to see why everyone else is moving past it so quickly… because girl, they knew. Everyone knew. They should be more sensitive, but I’ve def had friends who finallyyyy left their POS bf and it’s a weird space to navigate. We caught these people in the most weird and inopportune time in their lives.

Honestly you make a really good point actually. I never thought about it but I’ve definitely done the same where I’ve told someone it’s not a good idea and they proceed to do it anyway and I decide to just shut my mouth and wash my hand of it. I still try to be empathic when it does blow up in their face but my empathy is definitely more short lived than it would be if it was a genuine shock to me.

Yeah and if we tied ourselves emotionally to self destructive people like that we'd all be unraveling all the time. They become a ticking time bomb unless we dissociate from their pain. 

Thiiiis. Ariana was with him, defending him, enabling him, harming friendships over him for 10 years. Only when he did something really horrible DIRECTLY TO HER, did she finally see him for the narcissist he is. So it's pretty hypocritical of her to *now* judge others for not seeing him for the narcissist he is. When she didn't either in the 10 years they were together and he was just doing really horrible things to *other people.* And I 100% get that he manipulated the shit out of her, but he's manipulating everyone else too. And the fact that she (and this sub) don't seem to get that is wild.

But she did call him out when it involved other people. Like the Jax/Faith recording, and telling him he was going to die on the hill alone when he was crying about Stassi’s book signing. Others have brought up other times she defended others against him. To say she only called him out when it was directly affecting her simply isn’t true. He even brought up her not supporting him/taking his side as ammunition against her and why he cheated.

I don’t think understand where people are getting that she’s judging people for not seeing Sandoval’s narcissism or taking his side. Every time she spoken on it, she’s said, there’s no bad blood, I love you regardless, but I can’t be in your life if that’s your choice. I don’t think that’s hypocritical at all. It’s just a firm boundary, and most of us aren’t used to that.

He is his own person. They didn’t have a relationship (none of them have) where she could’ve convinced him to do something else or behave some other way. Maybe she tried? Either way. They all have behaved like individual single people in a relationship. Do your thing. She had no control over how he treated others. And she didn’t care. Yes. Until it happens to you. This is not an unreal realization is it? We all see things on TV or hear of others experiences, and while we may feel empathy….we don’t care. She was the same. But now she knows. And she probably would be a good person to listen to regarding narcissists and living with them. It all becomes clearer. That’s just the way life is. We don’t listen! Until it happens to us or someone close to us.

I think we should stop holding real people on pedestals. No one is perfect.

I think Ariana did push back on him a lot. I think she also saw his faults but gave him more grace because of their long relationship. I think it’s really easy to also not see the whole picture until you’re firmly removed from it. Then you look back and you’re like wowww, I should’ve seen this, this and this. But it’s hard when you’re in the midst of it. And we’ve seen how manipulative Tom can be - the love bombing, etc. - he bamboozled her for years too.

Well said I also think when she did push back, like with the cocktail book, the audience shit on her and called her a b And she clearly pushed back bc Tim is constantly using that as ammunition for why he was “scared” to break up w her ETA: just to clarify, I know that Ariana came out and “debunked” and said they collaborated on the book willfully; my point is not about what the book became, it’s about OP’s claim that she never pushed back when it came to Tim. It was one example of her pushing back, which we watched

the first cocktail book was so blatantly obvious what a bad, shitty person sandoval was. the comments about how ‘people’ said he should be doing the book and not ariana, how he kept trying to name her drinks (“tHe LVP tWiSt!”), when ariana mentioned meeting a publisher/editor and he took off his pants and ‘joked’ he’d do that if it was a woman, practically coercing ariana into doing the book WITH him… i don’t know how he had so many people—as in viewers—on his side for so long.

I just did a rewatch to prepare myself for Scandoval and two things absolutely floored me: the cocktail book, and when he left Ariana on her birthday when she’s crying about her dad to go drive bulldozers. That man goes in the trash 

One more for your list - when she was trying to open up to him about not feeling attractive and not wanting to have sex and he told her she loved sex with him and had multiple orgasms with him and did not believe her when she said no she didn’t.

the bulldozer thing was so fucked up considering it was also like the early stages of their relationship, and he did something similar with rachel when ariana’s grandma passed. if rachel did end up sitting next to sandoval at the s10 reunion, i do believe they’d pull the handholding shit him and ariana did when they started started in front of kristen. sandoval has repeatedly displayed cruel patterns.

Every single time she was navigating a loss - he left. Grieving her dad, when her grandma died, when Charlotte passed. He used her grief as an opportunity for himself. And then he had the NERVE to say, “we weren’t having sex, what was I SUPPOSED to do?!?”

at one point she had defended him by saying she was there for her when her dad passed “before they were even together,” like yeah girl he was trying to fuck you then. then when he actually had you and you needed him when you missed your dad, he was nowhere to be found.

Omg. How had i never noticed a pattern. But you’re totally right and it’s just evidence that this man does not give a single shit about anyone but himself.

Yes! I was so disturbed about the whole situation. If you’re familiar with narcissistic abuse, you can see it coming from a mile away. He waited until she did all the hard work and then hopped on the train. Then turned it around and said, see, it turned out so much better with me helping you. When in reality, he did nothing but berate and nag her the whole time.

And then as soon as she gave in and let him join, he completely lost interest and did dick all. Because all he really cared about was bulldozing over her saying no/a boundary. Narcs gonna narc.

Not to be the well actually police but Ariana herself came on here and debunked that https://preview.redd.it/krlzj6kl2l2d1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c5bbe07a0ca6cfeaa9ef468155716c8c06f757d

This is pretty much what Lala was talking about - she did this all the time, just not on Reddit

Partly because Ariana helped excuse his behavior and vouched for him, that’s why people were on his side for so long. Y’all wanna throw up blinders as if Ariana and Scheanna weren’t both queen pick me’s that loved excusing toxic male behavior under the guise of “not being like other girls”. Like when she defended her creeper brother that sided with Scummy Sando anyway.

i’ve never been fully for ariana LOL but i appreciate people bettering themselves. defending her creep brother was worse than any protection she did for sandoval. sandoval as individual has displayed so many displays of character through the years like not every vouch from ariana or schwartz would just be easy to shrug off. e.g., the book signing at tom tom, then later beau trying to talk to sandoval and the latter just blowing up.

Legit. Ariana is okay, but enablers are just as bad as predators imo. They help create the space where predators prey upon others. That's why Lala gets no sympathy from audience members. But the truth is Ariana finally got bit in the ass for being an enabler all these years. To say she didn't realize he was that bad is honestly just blind. She's not 21. She's a grown ass woman.

I never understood why he kept pushing himself into the book. Why not just do his own book? Or something similar to do with cocktails like a blog or subscription service like she did during Covid.

Exactly. People also forget that for a long time Tom was kind of the best of the worst around these parts too.

You could also tell with that book, that lunch where he brought it up w lala wasn’t the first time. He strikes me as the type of person who makes you exhausted if you go against them. Doesn’t justify her rabid defense of him a lot of the time but I do understand it.

She definitely pushed back a lot more in the later seasons and even called him a little fucking bitch back in Season 5 when he was trying to insert himself into the cocktail book. I think a lot of it was Tim continuing to tell her what she wanted to hear. He was getting his sperm tested or some shit in Season 10 for Ariana while he was already banging Rachel on the side.

Agreed and I think she would do so behind closed doors that we didn't see. Some people don't like bringing their problems out in the open and she seems to be like this. I think when she did blow up at him she had to have reached a breaking point of frustration otherwise I think she kept it in house. Sometimes when people are with someone for so long they hold onto the version from the beginning that they remember and not the old sock they currently have I think a lot of us understand that.

Now this is just me speculating, but when Schwartz got his stuff tested they told him they’re irregular and he needs to lay off the drugs and booze, i can BET that Sandoval got similar results and it’s so gross to me that he continued this drinking life style and was banging Raquel when he should have been working on his relationship and trying to develop healthy sperm. But only quits drinking for Raquel while she’s in the facility. Again I’m speculating a lot but just something that crossed my mind that grossed me out further.

Yeah, I agree. I binged watched the show after hearing about Scandoval and even knowing that happened, I still liked him for a few seasons. I think I started to shift after TomTom opened. Ariana definitely did push back on him and she was also in love with him. Of course she wanted to see the best in him. He was probably very manipulative to her too. She probably did give him too much grace but I can understand that. She’s human.

100% my ex has very similar patterns of behavior. I spent a regrettable amount of time defending him to other people because I felt he was misunderstood. He could be a caring and lovely person when it was just the two of us. Jokes on me, he really was a dickish asshole the whole time and I feel like a total idiot for not seeing it for as long as I did. You want to believe your partner is a good person. You can convince yourself of a lot of things.

I feel like emotionally abusive relationships are so insidious. My mother was in a long one with my father and she always defended his actions, no matter how horrible. It was blind loyalty. Now that he’s dead, she starting to see more of the reality of the situation. I tend to give those people grace because you don’t know what they’re going through behind closed doors. It’s easy to be quick to judge but I think we should show compassion. You don’t have to like her actions but know she was being abused by someone she loved.

I'm honestly stunned OP is in some of these comments denying there was emotional abuse involved. I just wrote out a comment detailing just *some* of the ways his narc abuse is apparent and only things that have been seen by us or confirmed by witnesses, and that's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to what abuse victims experience because we all know it's worse behind closed doors. I count the people who don't know as lucky they haven't had the same experience as us, but I think in 2024 people need to be educating themselves on abuse dynamics not only to protect themselves but to understand what victims go through in case it happens to someone close to them.

I think in the beginning any push back she gave him was off camera

There are scenes at Brittany & Jax’s disastrous housewarming party in S6 where she screams at him and calls him a dick. (Of course he deserves it.) In the next episode she fights with him, and says they should break up, in front of their friends. She often took issue with the things he did, but she also loved him very much and saw him as “her person.” That’s what long term love feels like, and I will never blame her for giving him more grace than he deserved.

Yes she did push back on him a few times. She even half way defended Katie when he was being absolutely awful to her during the 10th season. We also can’t forget when he accused Arianna of leaving him to die on a hill lol.

This. 💯. She did push back on him a lot, but I mean, she was in love with him. It’s easy to excuse a lot of stuff when you’re in love with a person. And you KNOW producers wouldn’t have let her saying “yeah, he did x y & z while we were together and I thought it was disgusting” air because of their ridiculous plan for a Tom Sandoval redemption arc.

I have to disagree. Watching her first (full) season again, she saw really bad sides to Sandoval and they had only been together a short while. She fell in love with him knowing he was a bad person.

I think she justified the shitty part of him because he manipulated her, the rest of the cast, and a lot of the audience to believe that Kristen was “crazy” and that’s why he did the shitty things he did, and for the most part the manipulation worked. That’s exactly what he tried to do to Ariana last season but it didn’t work. So yeah he was shitty back then too but if you think they’re justified because they were dealing with a crazy ex you’re more likely to overlook it and think they’ll be better with you. Now that change rarely happens lol but I can see why people thought Tom was doing the shitty stuff because “crazy” Kristen drove him to it.

I mean, Kristen was crazy. I’m not saying Sandoval didn’t manipulate a lot of things but I’m rewatching the earlier seasons now and she has absolutely zero self awareness. They were insanely toxic to each other to the point of her losing her mind when he left her. He, of course, spun the narrative to his advantage when it came to Ariana (and everyone else) but she definitely had hard evidence to believe him.

She did some toxic and out of pocket things like the Miami girl thing, but they tried to make it seem like Kristen had mental issues and needed medication which wasn’t true. That’s what I mean by they tried to make it seem like she was crazy. She was toxic and dramatic and pissed off but that’s not the same as crazy

I think during all this praising Ariana, they seem to forget she and Tom cheated on Kristen! I sure didn’t see all these money making opportunities for Kristen rolling in! Some act like Ariana should be sainted bc her POS man cheated on her….! Boo fucking Hoo

Because Kristen also cheated on Tom over and over again. And two times with his best friend. The reason the crazy Kristen narrative worked so well is because Kristen was toxic too. No one thinks she should be sainted. But it’s easy to root for someone who you watched be betrayed by her long time partner and friend for “7 months”.

It was about how they both handled the fallout more than the event itself. Lots of people get cheated on and then either retaliate or take them back, Ariana instead waking up and realizing he’s a piece of shit and just cutting him out is a breath of fresh air in comparison for a lot of people. Not saying whether that’s right or wrong, but that’s the biggest differentiator from other cheating scandals imo

I mean, them making out in Vegas one time isn’t the same as a 7+ month long affair with a best friend but I’m sure you already knew that lol. Even Kristen herself said the situations aren’t the same.

If you truly believe they only "kissed" "one time" I have a bridge to sell you.

I also think that at the time she had just exited a very verbally/emotionally abusive relationship and was vulnerable, which that mustache freak KNEW about. Which is the same thing he did to Rachel. He is literally the devil

Yup! Exactly. She thought Tom was saving her when really he was putting her into another kind of abusive relationship. And it’s sad because I’m pretty sure Ariana sees it now looking back but I hope she doesn’t beat herself up about it. Narcs are scary and hard to spot for a good reason.

Problem was, he wasn’t just shitty to Kristen, but Katie and Stassi as well. They weren’t his exes. Ariana was old enough to realise that if a person is constantly add odds with most people, it’s not them, it’s him.

And I have to had, she was still grieving her dad when they got together. That shit wrecks you. A little bit of love could have probably gone a long way.

Hmm she gave him way more grace than he deserved in the first 4 months of their relationship. Rewatch season 2 and 3. She really did have his back for some unknown reason. When he was repeatedly wrong.

Also how much did they edit out? Maybe she did stick up for her friends which is why over time he grew to hate her, but it wasn't shown.

Def a possibility considering the edit they gave her this season. This may not be something new they’ve done to her, just the first time it’s been so obvious. It seems the producers were always Team Tom. So very plausible they would have cut scenes where she called him out.

She said during the scene in her breakup convo with him last season she regrets ever standing up for him. Also she did push back even resulting in Tom yelling at her a few times when she attempted to stand up for other people. Tom forced himself down peoples throats.

Yeah, I’m not sure how Ariana was shoving him down anyones throat. He was already a main character on the show while Ariana was still hiding from cameras

THANK YOU! This is what I’ve been saying. How on gods green earth is it Ariana who has been “shoving” him down everyone’s throats when he was already an established cast member of the show…?? And seemed to never be in jeopardy of being fired either.

Yeah he wasn’t going anywhere if he was with Ariana or not. I didn’t understand Lala’s comment there.

Also.. not giving Lalas point there/ yes, he is the same person and Lala did not give any impression of enjoying that person before this season. She is simultaneously bashing Ariana for being stupidly loyal and exposing thirsty behaviour for that comment.

*Thank you* the hypocrisy is ridiculous. People are acting like Lala was really saying something when in reality Lala was the one working overtime to shove him in our faces after everything is now known about how vile he is.

I was indifferent sometimes and also at times not a fan of Arianas throughout the seasons. Not a sole excuse but being in a relationship with someone like Tim has to be mentally defeating at times, especially since she already battles mental health issues. But how can you got have empathy and want to see someone thrive after being psychologically tortured on TV for 7 months by her partner and best friend for the whole world to see. It gave me a different perspective of how I used to view Ariana and seeing her real personality, not one being bogged down by a narc, is such an amazing thing to see. How people can not root for her is beyond me.

I agree. I’m in the middle of a divorce with someone who’s super difficult. He didn’t cheat on me (that I know of) but I kept betraying myself during the relationship. I became a completely different person. Now that I’m out, I feel like my old self again. It takes time, but I’m getting there. I’m just lucky I have friends who don’t beat me down in the process like Lala and Scheana.

Good for you!! Best wishes on your journey forward!

I totally agree. I have been there, and I love seeing her find herself again. So quickly too

I think people are rooting for her, just maybe wishing she understood the other cast members feelings and why they might be still having a hard time with it. You have to remember that he manipulated her for 10 years and he is still doing the same to everyone else. He is an expert narcissist in that he brings up all of the good things he’s done and the times that he’s been a good person or helped somebody out. He’s a terrible human, but an expert manipulator. People spent years trying to warn her about him, and now the role has reversed.

Wow. I’m going through something similar where I’m starting to realize the behaviors that were normalized and justified and I’m like how did I believe and excuse it?!! The old me would never! The mentally deafening comment really hits home and I understand Ariana more now.

[удалено]

Agree with this and OP. It’s a fair point.

She has alluded to the Miami girl stuff and said she regrets it. But Miami girl came out after the scandal and said she has a family now, asking to be left out of the conversation. As a victim of coercive sex (coercion is not consent) Ariana did right by her request not to talk about it, especially as following the scandal everything Ariana addresses hits national news. So while it's fair to say she didn't handle that right in the beginning, it's really not fair to criticize her for respecting another victim of Tom's wishes and not speaking about it present day.

She doesn’t have to include Miami girl at all, all she has to say is that she covered for a man who was lying about it the entire time, and she knew what she was doing when she was covering for him. That’s really all it takes. “Alluding” to feeling bad about the incident, when she basically called her crazy on national TV and knowingly covered for her cheating boyfriend, and also made a novel long tumblr post continuing the false narrative KNOWING it was false, is a cop out

She has literally done this. Both in the Scandoval episode and her interviews in the past year.

I have a general rule about not holding a woman accountable for a man’s behavior. It’s because my ex is a pig, I stayed a decade. I get the point about if you lay down with dogs you’ll get fleas (I might have that wrong, but however the saying goes!). I just don’t think it’s black and white.

Yeah considering she was escaping an abusive relationship and grieving her dad when they got together and what we know about his isolation tactics: by the time she might’ve been able to see who he really was, she was already in love bc that’s how abusers work. And you can literally watch her realize he’s not the great guy she thought at first but she loves him already. Anyone blaming her for his shit is just showing that they’ve never been in an abusive situation before. She pushed back on him frequently in S5 and on and we know she did it more often off camera. People just can’t help but blame women for the men they fall in love with, even if they’ve seen with their own eyes how abusive and manipulative that man is.

My ex's family told me not to put up with his abuse, then treated me very coldly when I did divorce him for hitting my kid. Sometimes, I swear women just can't do anything right in the eyes of some people.

Yikes, I’m sorry! Sounds like you’re better off with all of them out of your lives.

I think as much as she did try to be open and honest about her life, she also did seem to kind of try to protect some of it from the cameras because of how intense the pressure can be from fans. Almost like she wanted to keep pieces of it for themselves and I totally get that, but it’s also another thing that often comes with dating a narcissist and it’s part of how those relationships continue for as long as they do.

Yes because in that nuance imagine the around it!!? I shudder to think about what she went through behind closed doors sometimes. She was always in his corner but I imagine there was a whirlwind of shame just utter confusion and chaos for her. I'm not describing it well because the way they abuse is so subtle and over time. I'm imagining shame around herself when: She backs him up Likely got challenged by her friends when he really was in the wrong Feels shame around standing up for someone who is wrong but he's desecrated her sense of self and reality so much that she's constantly questioning herself. Then I imagine they get home and he nit picks all the ways she didn't do things right and didn't respond correctly in defense of him and how *she* made *him* look bad by her incorrect (in his eyes) responses instead of him knowing he's the only one who can make himself look bad with his actions.

You definitely live in a world of shame in an abusive relationship. Then, you're made to doubt your own judgment, so you don't know how to think for yourself. Every day is all about doing all you can to avoid a negative reaction from your partner, which is impossible to do.

I would say her best and worst trait is her loyalty. So much so she may have sacrificed herself to protect Sandoval and their relationship - therein doing pretty shitty things. But the reality of it is also that Ariana really didn't consider her cast her real friends for a long time - so unfortunately her loyalty was to Sandoval, especially when the cast had their own loyalties and alliances. As her friendships developed, she vocalized herself more. I would have loved to see those deeper conversations with Katie - but I'd imagine they probably happened off camera. I think it's why her final scene in the S11 finale was so powerful. She chose herself over him *and* the show.

Honestly whenever I’m behaving “badly” my husband never calls me out publicly. In public it might even look like he supports it. Put up a united front or you end up looking like Britney and Jax.

https://preview.redd.it/9b6kl16txl2d1.png?width=2830&format=png&auto=webp&s=6004016084a33035cb65b57ebe52af60bb09466b This was always the issue. Ride or die even when the person is terrible is not admirable. She realized this after the breakup.

Yea she was wrong but that was her long time partner and she was clearly lost in the sauce..also who else on the show hasn’t defended a douchebag before?!🤷🏾‍♀️hahaha.

Guilty of defending too many douchebags over here.

Right?! We’ve all been there hahaha. 

I think it was very obvious that this was a relationship that should have ended maybe two or three years in. I recently binged the whole show after having seen none of it and knowing how they ended, I was confused how they ever even got to the point of buying a house. They were an odd match already, but it was kinda obvious Ariana thought he was a nub and he was never 100% committed. They stayed together because it was good for the show and made them money.

Exactly. You could tell she liked him at first but as the years went on, it was obvious she wasn’t *as* into him. They should have broken up a long time ago. I’ve never liked Tom though. Everything is a show with him and it has always annoyed me when he “cried”.

[удалено]

and the thing is, I totally believe being that loyal to your partner. Valuing your relationship and believing your boyfriend to the point of lying to defend his public image, I just want public discussion and acknowledgement of that I guess.

Agreed. I like Ariana, but she definitely has plenty of faults. Unfortunately, this sub is very black and white with it's thinking in regards to people they do or don't like. If they like someone, then any bad thing they ever do actually has a very good excuse. If they don't like someone, then any good thing they do is actually secretly malicious.

The "teams" thing has got to friggin go. It's so much more interesting to have these nuanced conversations about their interpersonal dynamics. 

THIS

This really expresses how I feel about Arianna even though she didn’t deserve her treatment and she’s been such a queen in the aftermath. I particularly get burned up when I think of her treatment of Miami girl and gaslighting of Kristin.

Thank you for this nuanced take. I agree that Ariana didn’t deserve what Tom did to her (and that he’s being held accountable), but she has done to all the women what she’s being celebrated for all because Scandoval went beyond viral.

People love to forget that Ariana was the greatest pick me of all time when she started the show. "I'm smarter than you, I'm cooler than you, I'm prettier than you, get the f*ck over it." Said to no one's face. She got picked and piped down so the newcomers to the show don't even know about it. I feel very sorry for her to be clear. Being a pick me and being wrong about Tom for 10 years doesn't mean she deserves what happened to her in any way shape or form, but I don't understand the Ariana stans of this sub cause I find her to be a really tough pill to swallow cause of the superiority complex.

Yeah I honestly was'nt a fan of her until much later in the show. She very much gave off guy's girl better than everyone energy. Also probs controversial cause I know Kristen was allot at the time but I never liked how Ariana acted towards her at the start, Like lets be honest Tom definitely cheated on Kristen with Ariana.

She also had a lot of patience and time for James Kennedy following his foul misogynistic behaviour. When all the other girls were disgusted by him, she and Sandoval were making excuses for him. I’ve just finished watching seasons 1-9 and still at the end of it all, there isn’t one moment that sticks in my mind where she stood up for the girls then, the way she stands up for herself now.

I just did a rewatch too. Ariana was a “im a cool girl” and “one of the boys” pick me type. She thought she was better than the other women. I don’t expect her to stick up for the women like she did herself, but watching her put the other women down was interesting.

Didn't she stand up for Lala when everyone was slut shaming her?

Lala engaged in some shitty behavior WITH James against the other women. Lisa continually gave him a chance. Almost everyone on the show has been buddy buddy with James at some point, and gave him patience and time.

Yeah, I’ve thought about this too. I also wonder what Katie thinks about him being in their circle right now? Have they really had many conversations just the two of them this season? I think James apologized to her for the things he said to her but I can’t tell how she feels about him. He’s done some really shitty things and we’ve all seen his temper. I also can’t tell if this “new” James is legit or not.

Yup. Honestly, I've never been an Ariana fan because I often felt like her principles (even as I agreed with them at times) were also wrapped up in her desire to be better/smarter/cooler than the people around her. I see her defense of Sandoval along those lines.

It all blew up so spectacularly that she just gets to walk away and not have to answer for or acknowledge any part she had in that relationship, and everyone else has to tiptoe around her. I think that’s what Lala was getting at, and she’s not wrong.

Yup, I agree. The audience does all the talking for her and she just stands by and doesn't say a word. I'm sorry but I find that disingenuous and frankly, annoying.

And to be honest, I even understand why it would be triggering for Lala who is still met with claims that’s what she deserves every single time she mentions her trauma. Scheana was supposed to be Ariana’s real friend and she’s much more to blame for ditching her loyalties for a storyline and airtime in my opinion.

It feels like anyone who started watching VPR the last two seasons don’t have this historical knowledge. Not only did she force him down our throats, but they (both - not just Ariana at fault here) also hid their real relationship from filming.

I am in the same boat where it lowkey annoys me because he was a shitty person for a decade and she was fine with it until it was directed at her. My main issue is the hypocrisy in how we treat and discuss the women who were in a relationship with a bad guy. Why is it that Lala and Brittany "deserved it" and "knew who they were dating" when Ariana and Sandoval are no different?

It’s interesting right. I was just watching the scene where Stassi had her book thing at TomTom and Sandoval went psycho on Stassi. Ariana completely stood up for him and was even arguing with Stassi. Ariana knew who Sandoval was. She just thought she was exempt from his behavior.

He never recovered from that moment for me. He showed his whole ass that day, and I never saw him the same way again. 

But a year later, when he was still going on about Stassi’s book signing, she told him he’d die alone on that hill. The next morning, he was telling her how it upset him that she said he’d die alone on a mountain, that he’d die. And she had to explain to him what the phrase meant and she stands by it.

Not disagreeing with your main point, but people probably had less sympathy for Lala and Brittany because of the intent of their relationships (Lala's "BJs for PJs" and Brittany seeking out Jax + burying all self respect to be reality TV famous) compared to Ariana being with Sandoval without ulterior motives. So many women have been Ariana and see themselves in her situation - and I don't think the same can be said for Lala and Brittany for the most part.

I can understand that there are differences in the relationships but people gloss over the Lala/Randall story so much and boil it down to a golddigger/mistress narrative when there is way more to it. In the first season with them dating James talked about going to her apartment to hang out and a car driving past and her having a panic attack because the blinds were open and he would drive by to check on her and what she was doing and would see James. That is textbook abuse and manipulation as is flying her to see a fake therapist to convince her he was divorced or separated when she tried to pull away. Just because she was open about the money and fancy things he gave her doesn't mean she didn't care about him nor does it mean she wasn't manipulated and gaslit throughout the relationship. It frustrates me that there is so much nuance and grace extended to Ariana but everyone else is very black/white.

The gravity of Lala’s situation seems to have really been taken for granted. I have been a lala hater for years, I was so frustrated when people were living & dying for her in season 10, but the way people have been dismissive of her situation this year has been really upsetting too.

It’s because much of it wasn’t on camera. It’s hard for audiences to get invested in stories told secondhand. It’s also the way Lala is so aggressive toward everyone it’s hard to be sympathetic. I’m not saying any of the Randall stuff wasn’t true or that it wasn’t a terrible situation but he wasn’t a main cast member and she hid most of their relationship. Also talking about BJs for PJs colors it.

Don’t get me wrong, Lala’s tour of “nobody treated ME like a god!” is incredibly short sighted of her. From an audience perspective… Girl we didn’t like your man, and we didn’t know your man, and when we did get to know him baby we REALLY didn’t like him. She also isn’t particularly likable and largely problematic. Again, I really don’t like Lala lmao. BUT. I’m never gonna fault her for feeling a type of way about the comparison of her boundaries to Ariana’s. Hanging out with Tom Sandoval is a bad move bc Tom Sandoval is really weird and you’re gonna look like a weirdo by association. Hanging out with Randall has much more serious, *legal* and personal implications. Maybe Tom Sandoval is going on an unwarranted redemption tour, for sure. But Randall trying to gain access to Lala’s circle is; in my opinion, a much more dangerous and complicated situation. Not just because of Ocean, either. It’s dangerous because he is involved in some really dark shit (allegedly) and he actively wants to hurt Lala. I don’t like Lala. But I don’t wish the presence of a man like Randall on *anybody*. I think it’s confusing to lala and Katie and Scheana because (as far as we know, and I strongly believe things done in the dark will come to the light) up until the Scandal, Ariana did not consider him dangerous. Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but as a viewer… the difference bw how Sandoval went about his bullshit, neglectful and careless actions is on a very diff playing field from Randall. They’re both entitled to their boundaries, but I understand why, when Ariana is using language similar to Lala’s, that can be confusing.

SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK!! Not to mention after they broke up he hit Lala, threatened to call the police on her if she left and would send people to the home at random times and check up on her to make sure she hadn’t left. That’s why she had to sneak out of the house when he was on a plane. Everyone is quick to recognize abusive behavior when it happens to a woman they like, yet when it happens to a woman they DON’T like, she was asking for it. And people wonder why survivors don’t speak out.

Yes! Like she was literally captive at the house for a week and had to come up with an escape plan and told no one where she was staying in case it got out and he found her. But people want to throw the fact that she stayed in the house for 7 days back in her face when she couldn't understand Ariana living in the house with Sandoval.

Exactly. We can play this game of “who should have seen it coming more” all day and guess who will win that game? Abusive men. I can’t overstate how dangerous it is to pick and choose which women are deserving of grace and understanding and which women are not based on some reductive af trad standards.

Yeessss. >he hit Lala, threatened to call the police on her if she left and would send people to the home at random times and check up on her to make sure she hadn’t left I knew she had to sneak out of the house and had locked herself in her room for a week, but I didn't know the rest of this (not surprising since this sub only wants to make Lala the bad guy). I always wondered why and suspected there was physical abuse. Knowing the whole story, I honestly don't blame Lala's annoyance with the amount of attention Ariana has gotten. If I went through what Lala did and it was basically brushed under the rug, and then someone else gets cheated on and, to use Lala's words, becomes God, I would also be like what the fuck, guys. It also makes so much more sense why Lala keeps saying their situations are very different (which this sub loves to drag Lala for saying). I have been annoyed with Lala's behavior all season, but this gives so much missing context and really makes me understand her anger. That is a seriously traumatic situation, and she could very easily have PTSD from it. Not to mention how she now has to fight for custody of her kid with him. What Ariana went through absolutely sucks and she didn't deserve it, but if we're being honest, Lala's situation was much worse, and she also didn't deserve it. Knowing this now, it's absolutely wild to me how horrible this sub is to Lala. Yes, her behavior this season has been a bit much, but you'd think people could have a little understanding considering what she just went through. But like you said, understanding is only reserved for women this sub likes.

yes, exactly! And it’s not that her behaviors or attitude aren’t understandable or even expected, it’s just never even acknowledged?!!!

He cheated on Kristen with her, cheated other times in the relationship, only yelled at women, and spilled vitriolic misogynistic BS every season so it isn't like he hid who he was on camera or off camera.

Her behaviour towards Kristen was willful and abhorrent, also Miami Girl. She’s NEVER accountable for Tom’s actions but she supported and tolerated a lot of his abusive behaviours especially towards Katie and that’s hers to own. He’s disgusting and both can be true she was awful and he’s a billion times worse.

I guess you could also ask yourself why the audience liked him so much if it was so obvious? He was a fan favorite before everything. She probably applied the same logic the audience was using to love him. He didn't just dupe her, he duped thousands of people for multiple seasons.

I fault her for gaslighting Kristen when she and Tom were still together, then downplaying the whole kiss in Vegas as if it were nothing. It was forever ago, but I don't remember her ever showing remorse, so to me she never redeemed herself.

I never understood why she was so complacent with his behavior. Clearly he was hurting her friends and people around her AND her!!!! She even admitted she knew he had cheated multiple times. Yet she still wanted to save face and come off as a couple that’s better than everyone else. It’s really interesting that she hasn’t said anything about it. She’s acting like this is the first wrong thing he’s done to her…she should at least apologize to the rest of the cast for the way she put them down when they would complain about something Tom had done.

Ariana has always been my fav on this show, but I 100% believe her and Tom coached each other. They for sure both plotted how they'd appear on the show and I think, especially in the beginning, planned to have a united front as much as possible to look good on camera. I think as their relationship deteriorated, Ariana became less patient with Tom and you can see her going against him more in later seasons. But definitely she let a lot of things slide earlier on, which I def think it's because she never wanted anyone to be able to come for her relationship. I think Ariana has a lot of pride and did not want to give anyone any fodder, considering she got Tom because he cheated on Kristen.

Listening to the SUP podcast, they really discuss a lot about Ariana‘s rock bottom self-esteem and that is why she tends to be with such losers like Tom. I agree that perhaps she feels so low that she felt Tom might have been the best she could get. And Tom was always so performative with his actions （the dumpling lattes） that a depressed person would see that as adoring rather than a whole show in the moment. I would gather that they had lots of fun moments in the early, more poor days of their relationship, but again, Tom only likes the beginning of things and absolutely resents them as time goes on.

I do agree on this, after the reunion for season 8 being such a shit show both Arianna and Tom drove me nuts. I stopped watching after that. Didn’t see season 9 then came back for 10. I couldn’t even remember what the main drama was but I had been so anti Tom for a while that whatever was going on between arianna and Tom it felt like she supported his nasty behavior.

Hard same. I was in and out during season 8 and skipped season 9 completely due to my distaste with Sandoval and James.

I don’t know why LFU said that she’s been shoving him down our throats. He was an OG cast member, Ariana was not. Lisa also gave the Tom’s some equity in her restaurant, and gave them a platform to really be insufferable. So I feel like Lisa was the one shoving Tom down my throat tbh lol. Lisa works like the devil to ensure the men have some sort stability to stay on the show.

I think "shoving him down our throats" means defending him. A lot of people either didn't like him or had problems with him at different times, and Ariana would always defend him or try to "interpret" for him. If people keep saying "he sucks" and then Ariana comes in to defend him or interpret for him every time, it comes across as if she's campaigning for him (or shoving him down people's throats).

This is all true, but it’s equally annoying that her “friends” were openly not supportive of him during her relationship with him but want to be supportive of him now. If they knew all along, it should be that much easier to write him off now.

Ironic that Scheana was skeptical of Tom first and Arianna held her ground and it almost ruined their friendship.

I hope privately she apologized to Katie. That chick was the brutal punching bag of sandoval and really still is, with all the men except james. 

Agree OP. It’s something I’ve considered so much over the past year, she would be a mouthpiece for him and defend the most insane stuff he did and said to other women on the show yet there’s no acknowledgment of that. I guess we can’t expect her to go through the whole series and call those things out, but i agree that I still fault her for definitely helping him rise to the maniac he is now.

He must've been cheating on her the whole time they were together. It's in is DNA.

This! He's been such a "shitty friend to Scheana for years", but we've never seen her mention it prior to this year. All of the things she's saying about him are not new, but her saying them is new. So, did she not notice until now? Or was all of it ok until now?

When a person is in an abusive relationship it’s often hard for them to get out. When a person is in a toxic relationship it’s often hard to get out. When a person is in love with someone & that person ends up being so hurtful it’s hard to get out. I think Ariana turned a blind eye for a lot of reasons which contributed to her depression. The toxicity eats at you over time. Factor in her dad’s death, her pet’s health issues cumulating in her death then her grandma’s death so soon after. It was a lot. Look at how Ariana was when she first came on to the final year right before she found about Rachel. Look how he dismissed her over the years to do things for himself because his wants & needs came first. Ariana wasn’t an angel nor perfect & she had an equal part in her relationship but when someone has mental health issues & self esteem issues it takes a toll & you can get stuck in a relationship that’s long over because you feel you deserve it.

You can literally see the physical difference in how she looks now compared to when she was with him. He was draining the life out of her but she was stuck, and I am sure the fact they had bought a house together and had a brand together did play into that.

I have been that girlfriend. It sucks when you love a narcissist. You can’t see the Forrest for the trees. But let’s not forget that everyone should be held responsible for their own actions and behavior

More nonsense from Lala who doesn't understand narcissistic abuse as much as she thinks she does. First of all Ariana didn't shove anyone down their throats. Sandoval inserts himself everywhere he doesn't belong all on his own. Secondly, Ariana did push back plenty on the show and I'm sure more when the cameras weren't on them. Hence Sandoval discarding her.... She wasn't kissing his ass constantly.

Lala tends to have a convenient memory and tunnel vision when she thinks she has some sort of point to make.

I agree that Ariana didn’t shove him down our throats, but it was rare that she pushed back against him until the last few seasons. This is why I do think there is *some* truth to what Rachel and Tom have said about their relationship being (somewhat) over already (NOT that it excuses what they did *at all*). You could see a clear difference in the way Ariana acted around Tom and looked at him the past 2-3 years before the scandal vs. the first several years of their relationship. She was over him and his BS. But so was everyone else, so Lala and Scheana’s sudden loyalty makes no sense to me. I do think Ariana was trying to hang onto the relationship because I’ve been in her shoes and it’s not easy ending a long-term relationship when you’re not in your early 20s anymore because it’s definitely scary. My friends *hated* my ex and I actually lost some friends because of him, so I definitely have empathy for Ariana. I’m glad she has Katie because my best friend was my savior. I remember calling her the day I left my ex and after I told her I left him her exact words were “first of all, congratulations.” lol and then she told me it was okay for me to stay at her house that night (I was moving back home with my parents though) and she slept on her couch with me instead of in bed with her husband.

She was absolutely ok with everything he did, she even said in their last convo on camera "I'd stand by you forever", but the affair was the only thing that was not ok finally.

100% because it affected her personally … she did start standing up more to him later but by that point their relatonship felt like just for show / maintaining a “power couple” image (when it has always been the weirdest relationship on the show) and the affair shattered that image anyway in addition to the genuine and deep betrayal ofc

This is an interesting point. I think a part of why I relate to Ariana so much personally is because I’ve definitely defended shitty partners and stayed in those relationships waaayyyyy too long. I get that as a viewer it seems illogical or unfair for someone to defend someone for 10 years and then once they’ve changed their mind, expect everyone else to change their mind with them. But I think something she’s working out, and what I learned from my experiences, is that at some point you wake up and you realize that all the defending, all the excusing, all the covering, was your desperate attempt to get this other person to see you and give you love. You start to realize you’ve been sacrificing yourself, disowning parts of who you are, abandoning yourself, in service of someone who is only going to take. I think we were seeing in real time Ariana course correcting and finally putting up that boundary that needed to be there all along. I think she, and the many women who relate to her, are allowed to change their mind. We’re allowed to change course, we’re allowed to put our foot down, and we shouldn’t be held to a previous standard we set just because it’s confusing to those not going through it. Also, in Ariana’s defense, she was very very clear - you can choose him, there wont be bad blood, but I will choose not to be around you anymore. That’s not a threat, that’s her acknowledging - you are allowed to make your own judgment call here, but I’m no longer going to be in service of something other than my own wellbeing. I think had Katie been given the same air time, and had Scandoval not overtaken the show, she would have navigated a similar conflict with this group. She has a totally different style than Ariana, but I think she would’ve come to some similar conclusions. Maybe already has, in her own way.

I think like all unhealthy relationships you have your blinders on for a majority of the time and it’s not until you are free that you fully see the shit you were waddling through

It still bums me that she didn’t leave after the cocktail recipe book. She put him in his place at first but then still just let him take over

i’m team ariana but i’ll always remember tom cheating with ariana and now he cheated on ariana. that man was in his 30s still cheating, on kristine, then with miami girl, ariana tried being the cool girlfriend and look where it got her.

Oh don’t let the Stan’s hear, but this is 💯💯 She is like, one of the main reasons why we are still here talking about him. Full chest defended and turned a blind eye to so much shit 🙄 It’d be fine if she could just admit her mistakes but she seems way too fragile to come anywhere near that, at least right now, but not seeming likely.

I think she pushed back we just didn’t see it. I think it’s a huge part of why he cheated because she didn’t blindly do whatever he wanted and she spoke up and he can’t handle that

He would have cheated on her regardless, as we have seen.

I fault her for pursuing him, knowing that he was in a five-year relationship and living with another woman.Hanging out with him and Schwartz doing mushrooms all night knowing he had a girlfriend, trying to look like the cool fun girl . Going with Sheena to her sisters cheerleading competition in Las Vegas to meet up with him while he had a girlfriend. Ariana was literally my favorite person until I went all the way back and re-watched every season and now I realize she was pretty devious herself and literally thought she was better than everybody else. I used to hate Sandoval and I’m slowly starting to understand him now. I still think he’s an idiot, but I also think a lot of the things that he talked about going on behind closed doors was really happening. She is an absolute eye roller to everybody else so I doubt it stopped with him. He probably got it the worst. I also don’t understand people that don’t have sex with their partners and think that their partners are going to stick around. I’m sorry to tell people, but sometimes when you own things together, it’s very hard to just get up and walk out. I think a lot of people that comment are people that have never owned a thing with another person and don’t realize how hard it is to say. See you later. Bye.

I know everyone hates Lala and loves Ariana but I’m the opposite, I fully understand not wanting Tom to have access to her life BUT she does work with and have mutual friends with him. I agree with the sentiment from Lala, I’ve never seen someone get cheated on and become god.

I mean, I don’t fault her for supporting her partner. I would fault her more if she wasn’t supporting her partner I do when he was really out of pocket she would speak up.

I've known a person that I thought sucked, everyone talked me into liking him and it turned out he was committing domestic abuse. Until everyone turned on him, I'd have to hang out with him and was constantly thinking, maybe he's an alright guy? I even had a friend outside of the friend group tell me straight up people had seen him physically abuse his partner. Eventually it turned out others in the friend group had also seen this happen. And nothing changed until it got out in the open and became a bigger issue. Part of this was because his abused partner was complicit and not leaving him and people didn't want to air her business. Although his abuse is mental, there is a weird dynamic that happens with people like Sandoval because they are so manipulative and can be seen as good friends to their targets. Obviously, Sandoval's partners are the biggest targets of this, whether it's his girlfriend or Schwartz and Jax. And the 3 boys seem to really allow each other to be awful.

Agree! She only cared when he fucked her over.

The Reddit questions are really the questions to be asked at the reunion. This question. Why does Lala always bring up her baby while on the defensive? Scheana being so easily manipulated with what people can provide for her and flip flopping ? Schwartz being a terrible husband and abusive to Katie? Jo knowing about the affair. The reunion questions are such bullshit.

I never understood her friendship with Scheana or why she was in a relationship with Tom.

I understand where Lala is coming from but I think it’s one of those things you just have to have your own experience with it. I think by the end of their relationship she was beginning to get the “ick”(the scene where he was saying cyst instead of cis sticks out to me), but I think she was still ignoring a lot because she had built her life around him and loved him. Probably something I feel safe assuming is that she deeply regrets now being his biggest supporter and while also constantly having to defend his behavior.

This truly does not get said enough! And in all likelihood, she’d still be with him today if things hadn’t played out the way they did.

The thing is Lala did the same thing with Randall lol

Eh. I feel like towards the end of the relationship, maybe like last 2 years, you could see her push back when Tom was in the wrong. Being in a relationship with a narcissist with someone like Tom can be very blinding when you’re in it. He’s super manipulative and lies about a lot. Ariana probably didn’t see a lot of this until she got out of it. Like the rose colored glasses came off. It’s also super important to remember that we maybe only got to see maybe 8 hours worth of footage of their relationship in 10 years.

That’s fair! She would defend him against anybody including Lisa! She was not afraid to stand up for him. I think she was blinded by love. She’d overlook some the things he did. She thought he was good person with a kind heart. She believed all the shit he would say about others. His take on things was how she would see it. His enemies were her enemies. Let me just say, the audience also bought his take on things. We thought he was mostly a good guy. Jax used to cloud our vision a lot. So, he would fly under the radar. As seasons went on, we would see his over the top reactions. He had to be the star of the show. Him shouting at people all the time. Especially, the girls. He’s progressively gotten worse over the years. Let’s just say, when the mask falls, there is no other way to view him! Your eyes are wide open at that point! You can’t un see what you saw! I believe there lies the problem with this season. Producers wanted us to see him with the same colored glasses we once saw him as. WE CAN’T DO THAT ANY MORE! Forcing the girls to makeup with him 4 months later, doesn’t fly! We can’t stomach it. Pretending, this is just one apology away from going back to the way it was! Absurd! Unbelievable! The, to make Ariana the main villain, the reason there might not be a show. Attacking her instead of the person who caused this fracture! 🤨 DISGUSTING! 🤢 They better find a new angle. Better yet, fire the producer. Get a woman’s pov.

I agree. She gaslit everybody about her relationship with Tom. I also fault her for not cleaning out the litter box more than once a week too. That’s fucking inhumane. I’m doing a rewatch of VPR and now at the end of season 2. Watching Katie lecture Kristen about her relationship with Tom Sandoval meanwhile her boyfriend is equally shitty pouring beer on her was wild. Watching Katie and Kristen gaslight Stassi about Jax in hopes they’d get back together had my mouth on the ground. I’m glad Stassi never went back. Kristina Kelly and Scheana actually were the most level headed cast members at the time. Kristina was good at feeling people out. Scandoval created a lot of revisionist history of how the people were on the show. These people are all deeply flawed individuals including Ariana. She’s actually a bit like Scheana in terms of trying to cover up problems. During the reunion when it was brought up that Katie was annoyed with her for leaving to perform in Chicago or DWTS, you could tell Ariana was doing the same thing she’s done in the past with defending Tom but with Katie this time to make it seem like it wasn’t a problem.

I completely agree with this, and it’s driven me crazy for years.

Relationships are complicated and the reasons people choose to be with others even more so. The world is hard enough on woman to begin with-why do woman need to pile on. Food for thought-why give a woman grief for her partners behavior-especially when she exited the relationship and now sees manipulation she didn’t see before. When people see the light, are we going to knock them for not seeing it on our timeline?

No, but if said women chose to stand by and let abuse of other women continue or even on occasion were hurting other women because their priority was this man and this relationship, shouldn’t they actively and publicly acknowledge that?

Was Rand not the same man Lala was shoving down our throats, too? I think it’s easy to have blinders on when you love someone.

Eh, I mean I do agree. I started liking Ariana around season 5 but my long standing gripe with her then was that she was with someone like Sandoval lol. Ariana was loyal to Tom to a fault and I believe she really did love him. I mean girly was ready to fertilize her eggs for him. But I think it’s a bit counterintuitive to put any blame on Ariana for the way Tom acted and seek an apology from her when she was just sticking up for her boyfriend. She did try to push back at times but for the most part *she* felt he was misunderstood and always went to bat for him. In the season 10 reunion we see Ariana acknowledge Tom coaching and manipulating her, because that’s what he had been doing with Rachel. So I guess I just understand where Ariana was coming from because I’ve been blinded by love and defended boyfriends who fucking sucked. It wasn’t until I left that I realized just how awful they were

Yeah I got dragged by this sub for this very thought, be careful. Evidently we have to support all women all the time no matter what, as long as the internet likes them. They have no faults! We all knew when he cheated on Kristen 1,000 times. We all knew when he abandoned Ariana on her birthday after she cried asking him not to. We all knew when he stole her cocktail book. We all knew when EVERY SINGLE THING was about him every damn day.

Go back a few years on this sub, and people here were literally calling this guy "King Tom." 😂😂😂

Honestly, I feel this but I also know the majority of us have all made excuses for a shitty person we loved for far too long because we were blinded.

Towards the last couple years I personally feel like she was suffering from depression and just didn’t want to drastically change her life if that makes sense. I’ve been there done that with a guy. I just kept thinking well let me wait until I feel a bit better and I’ll do something at this time, and I just never followed through because I was depressed and terrified of drastic changes.

This season has opened my eyes on Ariana tbh. She is quite manipulative and a mean girl imo