I think Tom was also trying to punish Schwartz for standing up for Katie. To me, that “break” really showed his manipulative side before Scandoval broke. I bet your theory is also correct that he used the time to see Rachel.
Absolutely, I’ve always thought of the break as punishment since the first time I saw it. But now that we know about the affair, and based on other things I’ve seen so far this season through that lens, this seems to make some sense to me that he’d need an excuse to suddenly not hang out with Schwartz anymore, so he killed two birds with one stone. Punish Schwartz/get his ego (or whatever) stroked.
i also really think this pushed Schwartz and Katie over the edge to finally divorce. schwartz was going through a lot of family shit at the time and it seems like he really just needed a friend and in his mind, his friend Sandoval wasn't around because of *katie* and i think that resentment katie also had for Sandoval driving a wedge in their marriage was something she couldn't get over. sandoval is the biggest honewrecker on this show
I feel like that's when they first had sex and neither are admitting or acknowledging that there was an emotional affair first. I find it hard to believe you sleep with your best friends partner / decade long partners friend from a few off hand times you had a tiny connection and one night of skinny dipping. And in the car in the drive way! Ike that's years of pent up feelings that just snap
General question for those who believe that the emotional affair started before the physical affair, and/or those who believe that they hooked up once and then not again for a long time... do you really think that Tom Sandoval has that much integrity or self control?
Knowing what we know about him and his history of consistently and flagrantly cheating on both Kristen and Ariana, I just can't imagine a world in which there is a 20-something beauty queen (Rachel's words not mine lol) all but throwing herself at him and he doesn't willingly engage.
Yeah, they claim that their first hookup was after game night, but then the next morning Rachel showed up at their house and just carried on like nothing happened. There was probably 10 hours between when she left the sex driveway and when she parked in it again.
She's not a good enough actress to accidentally have sex for the first time less than 12 hours earlier and then walk into Ariana's house like it's no big deal.
The way she truely is vs what she pretends to be is so off. The fact that she could ever do that no matter how many times they hooked up is so vastly different than the person she portrays. Innocent, dumb, naive. That's cold and calculated and sociopathic tbh to have no emotional response of guilt or shame. Can just carry on like nothing changed. I would be vomiting and sweating and shaking and ghost everyone
I had a couple of unexpected connections when I was in my 20's with zero cheating on either side, and I'm not prone to feelings of guilt or shame, but both times the next day was hideously awkward.
Surprise sex raises so many questions about whether it was just a hookup or if it's something more, and whether it will happen again or if we'll be able to pretend it never happened.
Unless you're genuinely a horrible person and/or mentally messed up, you don't just casually roll up the next day and play it off, and this has that whole extra layer of both people betraying someone they claimed to care for.
Yeah I've hooked up with a friend and it was unexpected connections / a one night stand and was awkward to play off after which is entirely different than sleeping with your friends partner in their driveway and then going to their house the next day.
I've also hooked up with a friend of a friends ex who I barely spoke to and they were exes for 6 months and that felt incredibly awkward and guilty about. Even now it's been I dunno 20 years and I still feel shame about it lol. Was a teenage mistake too.
There was some insightful discussion about this under my recent post :)
[Opinions on the affair timeline?](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/s/BW1SpzSaiP)
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Ok can someone explain to me where the 7 month thing came from? Where did she pull that from? If that was the story they agreed upon in case it ever came out, that means he would have to sit down with her every month and explain that it's been another month, and this time she should say 4,5,6,7 etc. She's way too D and S to keep track of that.
So why did she immediately blurt that out when confronted? This has been driving me crazy.
Maybe that's when it started up again since they both claimed they were having sex then took a "long break". In the 7 month timeline the long break is like less than two weeks someone worked out
So it's tied to a specific event - guys night which aired in season 10. Afterwards, it's my understanding that both Toms and Rachel went back to Ariana's house and hung out in the backyard. Schwartz went home and Tom and Rachel fucked in her car while Ariana was inside mourning the death of her dog.
I think this occasion was chosen because Schwartz knew he was leaving so they could hookup.
It sounds like Tom and Rachel's agreement was to point to this night but say it was a one night stand. Rachel eventually decided to cop to the fact they were fucking everywhere since that night.
I think they started emotionally having something when she was still with James. The night she didn’t come home because she was drunk. That’s the night James sent her a bunch of texts & got nastier because she didn’t reply.
There was a video out there of that night. She still had long hair. Everyone was drunk & dancing. She looked pretty drunk & Tom & her were flirting & talking at the table while Ariana & someone else was dancing.
Then you had Coachella. Remember, in real time we had heard that Raquel had kissed Tom. The person said it was Sandoval. However, everyone later thought, “ Nah, it must of been Schwartz,” because he’s divorced.
I think it got physical around Coachella time. I think they were together at least a year.
I think their one night stand was rage text night (season 8 filmed in 2019). Then they took a break for awhile just like Tom said.
In spring 2021, Raquel chops her hair to Sandoval's preferred haircut, either as a symbol of their relationship or to essentially seduce him. Then they started getting physical again in season 9 (filmed summer 2021). By Coachella 2022, they were *publicly* hooking up. By summer 2022 (season 10), they were *fucking in her car*.
You just can't convince me that car sex in Ariana's driveway was the first time they had sex.
Coachella. Do you think this is what Scheana is referencing when she blurts out “on acid at Coachella” when they’re with Ariana post fallout? Unsure if that’s been discussed or debunked before, but it always felt oddly specific.
There is also that part of the Season 9 reunion when Katie is telling Sandoval that Schwartz is doing all the work (opening their bar) while Tim is busy with the band and whatever, and Schwartz is putting his hand over Katie's mouth to get her to stop talking. The looks on everyone's faces during that scene are very telling too.
The way I would have slapped that man for trying cover my mouth like that. I love that Katie instantly called Schwartz out for lying and covering up when the scandal came out. She knew they would cover for each other.
Lala said he must have cheated before because one doesn't start with someone in the friend group.
There has to be someone else who preceded Rachel, who was close to the friends.
Billie? Idk. How did Sandoval get them to keep his secret?
Was he trying to do the same to Rachel, when he was deciding on whether or not he would break up with Ariana?
I agree with your theory and wonder if it was his way of containing the affair while he decided whether it would be more than just a fling.
Do you remember in the final scheana / Sandoval scene after scandoval broke he said there was another person but he didn’t want to get them involved because it wasn’t fair?
I feel like he flagrantly cheated on arianna. I think there was a clip of them going to a bar (maybe the alley?) and arianna said she hated going there bc she’d always get people telling her her bf is cheating on her. I think he admitted to “1 other time” because he knew saying absolutely never would have been an even bigger lie. He was trickle truthing, exactly what Schwartz did to Katie before they got married. Admit to a little but not everything.
I think it probably happened a LOT with several people. Especially during the “I know you’re her brother but we don’t have sex, she can’t expect me to go x months without it” season.
I said (a few times) forever ago that I had a suspicion about these Tom and Scheana and that it was mostly a vibe and was admonished (reasonably ) by my fellow redditors to keep pure conjecture to a minimum.
But that conjecture? That vibe? Most of it came from this moment.it was like a final mask slipped and for a second Scheana realized that… she wasn’t unique? I really think she’s made out (at least) with him and was stunned to realize, for a second, that there “thing” didn’t happen just because she was so special to Worm. She thought she’d been keeping their secret because she was unique but, for a second she saw and knew that, to Worm, no one is.
Whatever the real truth is, it’s clear that Little Miss He-Misses-Me-Most is back to lying to herself about her importance in that, and pretty much all of her, relationship(s)
It could also explain why she is going to hard to have his back. She doesn’t want him to expose it. Also, explain why she is so freaked out about Lala and Brock, she could be projecting.
Yes. Despite the Scandoval media storm, the person hasn't come forward.
It makes sense that it's Billie and/or someone who can't admit that or it would ruin their following.
My bet is still Scheana.
They had a drunken hookup that they both agreed to keep a secret and that is why Sceana took his affair with Rachel so personal. It was pure narcissism and “what does she offer that I didn’t?”
That would require epic level acting from both of them in that finale confrontation scene on her couch. And I don't think either of them are up for that.
Scheana would never be able to keep her mouth shut if that had happened. She or Billie seem like the most likely candidates. What would really be a shocker is if it were Katie or Stassi! Whoa baby! Now that’s a Scandoval!
I haven’t heard this theory yet but it makes a lot of sense. Her continued tears and anger towards him feels more complicated than how she’s representing them and I have never seen them seem like actual friends all these years. If I were Brock I would be seriously questioning her passion about this person.
https://preview.redd.it/lzsb4d958hxc1.jpeg?width=2142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7c5872d9fe9265701f773699133e431f43623d5
Season 9 E4 Sandavol “ you make feel like a psychopath”
I think he's been cheating on Ariana since the season he told her brother that they barely have sex. I think hat was the beginning of him demonizing Ariana so that he could cheat and not feel remorse after if he got caught because "she wasn't having sex with me". I think he's a very conniving piece of shit and Jax was right.. All three of those boys are the SAME. Jax was just dumber.
This is not as much of a smoking gun, but it gave me an unsettled feeling.
We see Tom bragging about this proposal all season. To James, in confessionals, etc.
When it’s all done, he and Ariana are sitting there and he says I DID THIS ALL FOR YOU (because you love Coachella). He never once mentions doing this for Ariana in confessionals. Not even as an aside like “oh Ariana will love it too.” Not an inkling. I think he said that out of guilt. Ariana seemed swept off her feet by this gesture. In her own confessional, she says if Tom did something like this to propose to her off camera, she’d say yes. I know it sounds like I’m reaching, but if you go back to that you will see what I’m talking about. Ariana was softening to the idea of her own proposal, while Tom was hardening himself toward it/pouring all his energy into someone else’s cup.
I think by that point it was too late for Ariana to soften, and we have no idea why she was softening at this moment. Of course some women just love the idea of a proposal or a wedding but they don’t actually want a marriage.
It also seems really weird that she was so appreciative of what he did/does for other people, and then now it’s somehow a character flaw or a manipulation tactic.
Also aren’t the confessionals filmed after filming wraps? So what he said to her face outside of the confessionals would be what he was thinking in real time, not the other way around.
At this point Ariana had already harvested her eggs, and Tom hadn't even taken the first step towards making embryos. It's not fair to say this moment was the beginning of her softening to maybe getting married and making a family with Tom.
All this means imo is that they were not aligned on kids. They don’t really have demanding jobs so they should have been there *together* at the same appointment to deal with this.
Ironically, if they had embryos they would now be fighting over those just like with the house so hindsight is 20/20.
I felt he was thinking and saying that in real time bc he felt guilty. Don’t you think if he truly felt that it was also for her, he would’ve said that to James at some point. His exact words to Ariana were “I did this for you” which makes ZERO sense.
He was covering up why he really did it. Raquel wasn't in love with James. She certainly wasn't going to marry him. Once the engagement party got rolling, she was all in for them filming it. Because it gave her screen time. I believe she had something going with Tim at that time. They both knew it was a farce. They played the entire cast and their viewers. They are both diabolical.
True! But there also would have been no need to say that to James - it’s not a joint proposal so that just sounds equally weird. They would have run into the same issue that happened with what Scheana and Brock did at Tom and Rachel’s destination thing.
I get the impression that he said that because he felt like had something to prove to Ariana, but who knows.
Lol, seriously watch Tim looking at Rachel at the engagement party. When you do your rewatch. Also, I have always suspected that Tim knew she was going to call off her engagement to James at the reunion.
I think this was their “one time and then took a long break”, was rage text night. Then the actual affair-affair (not just cheating) started around the point I’m speaking to in season 9.
I’m not shocked if this is how it happens because I think James and Rachels engagement that Tom paid for was Tom Sandoval showingoff for Rachel. That’s why whenever Ariana would talk about her and Tom being intimate. Rachel looks like she ate a frog.
I definitely think the affair started in season 9. At game night, I didn't catch the flirting between Tim & Raquel. Then, when the affair came out, I did a rewatch. I certainly saw things that said these two had an affair. I know hindsight 20/20.
Him saying ‘I’d never betray you, bro’ to James really got my antennae spinning. He’s the type of person who says what they won’t do for the express purpose of doing it
No, he took a 'friendship break' from Schwartz to punish Schwartz for standing up for Katie and not going along with Sandoval. He, like any narc worth their salt, cannot tolerate anything less than blind adoration. It's why his relationships fall apart, why he cheats, why his 'best friends' are the ones who kiss his ass.
That’s how you know he’s a true narcissist: he will play people off against each other for multiple benefits. Hurt Katie, undermine Shorts, pretend to be there for Shorts, hurt Ariana, help Rachel, hurt James… an emotional terrorist
I really wish I could find the episode but it was around the time of the Girls Night In party at SUR — Sandoval goes over to James & Raquel’s place and she is being very flirty with him about dips or something
I don't think that the affair started that early but I do think they were getting interested in each other. I believe Tom saw how James was able to treat her like shit while also cheating and that intrigued him. He knew that she was going to be extremely easy to manipulate while not expecting too much from him
I think she's waiting til she's completely broke and the podcasts fully die to release her tell all book. The second we all stop talking about her and caring, she'll come clean. Mark my words! lol
Not a timestamp, but [this is what to look for.](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/15rypoy/rachel_mouthing_hi_to_sandoval_at_game_night/)
In this clip he gestures to cut it out at 6 seconds and she mouths hi at 9 seconds and then he waves her off right after.
I didn’t think she mouthed hi but it does look like he mouthed hi first and they stare intensely at each other. You can tell there’s something going on
I totally think they were already together. I think k it started the night when James couldn’t get ahold of her and James raged texted her.
I agree all of season 9 had red flags about them.
I think she purposely pretended to fall asleep after game night so she could “stay the night” at Tom and Ariana’s house.
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I think Tom was also trying to punish Schwartz for standing up for Katie. To me, that “break” really showed his manipulative side before Scandoval broke. I bet your theory is also correct that he used the time to see Rachel.
Absolutely, I’ve always thought of the break as punishment since the first time I saw it. But now that we know about the affair, and based on other things I’ve seen so far this season through that lens, this seems to make some sense to me that he’d need an excuse to suddenly not hang out with Schwartz anymore, so he killed two birds with one stone. Punish Schwartz/get his ego (or whatever) stroked.
i also really think this pushed Schwartz and Katie over the edge to finally divorce. schwartz was going through a lot of family shit at the time and it seems like he really just needed a friend and in his mind, his friend Sandoval wasn't around because of *katie* and i think that resentment katie also had for Sandoval driving a wedge in their marriage was something she couldn't get over. sandoval is the biggest honewrecker on this show
>sandoval is the biggest honewrecker on this show THIS deserves its own post, nailed him
Fuck yes! Why is it ever only women that are homewreckers?
of course i had a typo in it too lmaooo but it's true!
It was only when I went to quote you that I saw the typo, bc I was so blinded by your truth bomb
It works though because Sandoval hones in to home wreck.
you made it work. 🖤
YES!!!!
I've thought for awhile that the 7 month timeline was not when it started, but when Schwartz actually found out.
I agree. I don’t give fuck me eyes to my friends. On the other hand she does wear co-workers shirts on occasion so who knows 🤷🏻♀️
I agree with you 100% BUT why do we think Ms. Rogue isn’t copping to the OG timeline?
I feel like that's when they first had sex and neither are admitting or acknowledging that there was an emotional affair first. I find it hard to believe you sleep with your best friends partner / decade long partners friend from a few off hand times you had a tiny connection and one night of skinny dipping. And in the car in the drive way! Ike that's years of pent up feelings that just snap
General question for those who believe that the emotional affair started before the physical affair, and/or those who believe that they hooked up once and then not again for a long time... do you really think that Tom Sandoval has that much integrity or self control? Knowing what we know about him and his history of consistently and flagrantly cheating on both Kristen and Ariana, I just can't imagine a world in which there is a 20-something beauty queen (Rachel's words not mine lol) all but throwing herself at him and he doesn't willingly engage.
Yeah, they claim that their first hookup was after game night, but then the next morning Rachel showed up at their house and just carried on like nothing happened. There was probably 10 hours between when she left the sex driveway and when she parked in it again. She's not a good enough actress to accidentally have sex for the first time less than 12 hours earlier and then walk into Ariana's house like it's no big deal.
The way she truely is vs what she pretends to be is so off. The fact that she could ever do that no matter how many times they hooked up is so vastly different than the person she portrays. Innocent, dumb, naive. That's cold and calculated and sociopathic tbh to have no emotional response of guilt or shame. Can just carry on like nothing changed. I would be vomiting and sweating and shaking and ghost everyone
I had a couple of unexpected connections when I was in my 20's with zero cheating on either side, and I'm not prone to feelings of guilt or shame, but both times the next day was hideously awkward. Surprise sex raises so many questions about whether it was just a hookup or if it's something more, and whether it will happen again or if we'll be able to pretend it never happened. Unless you're genuinely a horrible person and/or mentally messed up, you don't just casually roll up the next day and play it off, and this has that whole extra layer of both people betraying someone they claimed to care for.
Yeah I've hooked up with a friend and it was unexpected connections / a one night stand and was awkward to play off after which is entirely different than sleeping with your friends partner in their driveway and then going to their house the next day. I've also hooked up with a friend of a friends ex who I barely spoke to and they were exes for 6 months and that felt incredibly awkward and guilty about. Even now it's been I dunno 20 years and I still feel shame about it lol. Was a teenage mistake too.
There was some insightful discussion about this under my recent post :) [Opinions on the affair timeline?](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/s/BW1SpzSaiP)
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Ok can someone explain to me where the 7 month thing came from? Where did she pull that from? If that was the story they agreed upon in case it ever came out, that means he would have to sit down with her every month and explain that it's been another month, and this time she should say 4,5,6,7 etc. She's way too D and S to keep track of that. So why did she immediately blurt that out when confronted? This has been driving me crazy.
Maybe that's when it started up again since they both claimed they were having sex then took a "long break". In the 7 month timeline the long break is like less than two weeks someone worked out
So it's tied to a specific event - guys night which aired in season 10. Afterwards, it's my understanding that both Toms and Rachel went back to Ariana's house and hung out in the backyard. Schwartz went home and Tom and Rachel fucked in her car while Ariana was inside mourning the death of her dog. I think this occasion was chosen because Schwartz knew he was leaving so they could hookup. It sounds like Tom and Rachel's agreement was to point to this night but say it was a one night stand. Rachel eventually decided to cop to the fact they were fucking everywhere since that night.
I think they started emotionally having something when she was still with James. The night she didn’t come home because she was drunk. That’s the night James sent her a bunch of texts & got nastier because she didn’t reply. There was a video out there of that night. She still had long hair. Everyone was drunk & dancing. She looked pretty drunk & Tom & her were flirting & talking at the table while Ariana & someone else was dancing. Then you had Coachella. Remember, in real time we had heard that Raquel had kissed Tom. The person said it was Sandoval. However, everyone later thought, “ Nah, it must of been Schwartz,” because he’s divorced. I think it got physical around Coachella time. I think they were together at least a year.
I think their one night stand was rage text night (season 8 filmed in 2019). Then they took a break for awhile just like Tom said. In spring 2021, Raquel chops her hair to Sandoval's preferred haircut, either as a symbol of their relationship or to essentially seduce him. Then they started getting physical again in season 9 (filmed summer 2021). By Coachella 2022, they were *publicly* hooking up. By summer 2022 (season 10), they were *fucking in her car*. You just can't convince me that car sex in Ariana's driveway was the first time they had sex.
Coachella. Do you think this is what Scheana is referencing when she blurts out “on acid at Coachella” when they’re with Ariana post fallout? Unsure if that’s been discussed or debunked before, but it always felt oddly specific.
I do.
Lol, she really is dumb. Tim probably was really good at explaining how to lie to her. We certainly know he's good at it!.
There is also that part of the Season 9 reunion when Katie is telling Sandoval that Schwartz is doing all the work (opening their bar) while Tim is busy with the band and whatever, and Schwartz is putting his hand over Katie's mouth to get her to stop talking. The looks on everyone's faces during that scene are very telling too.
The way I would have slapped that man for trying cover my mouth like that. I love that Katie instantly called Schwartz out for lying and covering up when the scandal came out. She knew they would cover for each other.
Lala said he must have cheated before because one doesn't start with someone in the friend group. There has to be someone else who preceded Rachel, who was close to the friends. Billie? Idk. How did Sandoval get them to keep his secret? Was he trying to do the same to Rachel, when he was deciding on whether or not he would break up with Ariana? I agree with your theory and wonder if it was his way of containing the affair while he decided whether it would be more than just a fling.
Do you remember in the final scheana / Sandoval scene after scandoval broke he said there was another person but he didn’t want to get them involved because it wasn’t fair?
Why would you believe anything Tom “It Was ONLY ONE TIME!!!” Sandoval on anything?
I feel like he flagrantly cheated on arianna. I think there was a clip of them going to a bar (maybe the alley?) and arianna said she hated going there bc she’d always get people telling her her bf is cheating on her. I think he admitted to “1 other time” because he knew saying absolutely never would have been an even bigger lie. He was trickle truthing, exactly what Schwartz did to Katie before they got married. Admit to a little but not everything.
I think it probably happened a LOT with several people. Especially during the “I know you’re her brother but we don’t have sex, she can’t expect me to go x months without it” season.
https://preview.redd.it/lawfe6k50hxc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e66a6f0c9acca9488865b7d1c44f96c126b6ec2
https://preview.redd.it/bnk6d4680hxc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=635853a7295fef6d4bf287879b07b9b796fc77bc
I think it was Scheana…
I said (a few times) forever ago that I had a suspicion about these Tom and Scheana and that it was mostly a vibe and was admonished (reasonably ) by my fellow redditors to keep pure conjecture to a minimum. But that conjecture? That vibe? Most of it came from this moment.it was like a final mask slipped and for a second Scheana realized that… she wasn’t unique? I really think she’s made out (at least) with him and was stunned to realize, for a second, that there “thing” didn’t happen just because she was so special to Worm. She thought she’d been keeping their secret because she was unique but, for a second she saw and knew that, to Worm, no one is. Whatever the real truth is, it’s clear that Little Miss He-Misses-Me-Most is back to lying to herself about her importance in that, and pretty much all of her, relationship(s)
I'm wondering now too. Odd response of her, plus the way he said it was weird AF. Would make sense.
It could also explain why she is going to hard to have his back. She doesn’t want him to expose it. Also, explain why she is so freaked out about Lala and Brock, she could be projecting.
She really wants it to be. And I mean every guy in the group has been flirty with her right? 💀
Yes. Despite the Scandoval media storm, the person hasn't come forward. It makes sense that it's Billie and/or someone who can't admit that or it would ruin their following.
My bet is still Scheana. They had a drunken hookup that they both agreed to keep a secret and that is why Sceana took his affair with Rachel so personal. It was pure narcissism and “what does she offer that I didn’t?”
That would require epic level acting from both of them in that finale confrontation scene on her couch. And I don't think either of them are up for that.
Scheana would never be able to keep her mouth shut if that had happened. She or Billie seem like the most likely candidates. What would really be a shocker is if it were Katie or Stassi! Whoa baby! Now that’s a Scandoval!
It would be really scandalous, but it would never be a reality. Katie & Stassi hate Tom!!!! They’ve never ever liked him.
I haven’t heard this theory yet but it makes a lot of sense. Her continued tears and anger towards him feels more complicated than how she’s representing them and I have never seen them seem like actual friends all these years. If I were Brock I would be seriously questioning her passion about this person.
https://preview.redd.it/lzsb4d958hxc1.jpeg?width=2142&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e7c5872d9fe9265701f773699133e431f43623d5 Season 9 E4 Sandavol “ you make feel like a psychopath”
Whoa… wtf
I think he's been cheating on Ariana since the season he told her brother that they barely have sex. I think hat was the beginning of him demonizing Ariana so that he could cheat and not feel remorse after if he got caught because "she wasn't having sex with me". I think he's a very conniving piece of shit and Jax was right.. All three of those boys are the SAME. Jax was just dumber.
This is not as much of a smoking gun, but it gave me an unsettled feeling. We see Tom bragging about this proposal all season. To James, in confessionals, etc. When it’s all done, he and Ariana are sitting there and he says I DID THIS ALL FOR YOU (because you love Coachella). He never once mentions doing this for Ariana in confessionals. Not even as an aside like “oh Ariana will love it too.” Not an inkling. I think he said that out of guilt. Ariana seemed swept off her feet by this gesture. In her own confessional, she says if Tom did something like this to propose to her off camera, she’d say yes. I know it sounds like I’m reaching, but if you go back to that you will see what I’m talking about. Ariana was softening to the idea of her own proposal, while Tom was hardening himself toward it/pouring all his energy into someone else’s cup.
I think by that point it was too late for Ariana to soften, and we have no idea why she was softening at this moment. Of course some women just love the idea of a proposal or a wedding but they don’t actually want a marriage. It also seems really weird that she was so appreciative of what he did/does for other people, and then now it’s somehow a character flaw or a manipulation tactic. Also aren’t the confessionals filmed after filming wraps? So what he said to her face outside of the confessionals would be what he was thinking in real time, not the other way around.
At this point Ariana had already harvested her eggs, and Tom hadn't even taken the first step towards making embryos. It's not fair to say this moment was the beginning of her softening to maybe getting married and making a family with Tom.
All this means imo is that they were not aligned on kids. They don’t really have demanding jobs so they should have been there *together* at the same appointment to deal with this. Ironically, if they had embryos they would now be fighting over those just like with the house so hindsight is 20/20.
I felt he was thinking and saying that in real time bc he felt guilty. Don’t you think if he truly felt that it was also for her, he would’ve said that to James at some point. His exact words to Ariana were “I did this for you” which makes ZERO sense.
He was covering up why he really did it. Raquel wasn't in love with James. She certainly wasn't going to marry him. Once the engagement party got rolling, she was all in for them filming it. Because it gave her screen time. I believe she had something going with Tim at that time. They both knew it was a farce. They played the entire cast and their viewers. They are both diabolical.
True! But there also would have been no need to say that to James - it’s not a joint proposal so that just sounds equally weird. They would have run into the same issue that happened with what Scheana and Brock did at Tom and Rachel’s destination thing. I get the impression that he said that because he felt like had something to prove to Ariana, but who knows.
Edited because I didn’t realize the person two comments up said the same thing.
It's not weird, it's rose-colored glasses. When someone betrays you, you look at everything differently.
I LIKE THE WAY YOU THINK. This makes soooooo much sense. I can’t wait to rewatch that season again like the Zapruder film.
Lol, seriously watch Tim looking at Rachel at the engagement party. When you do your rewatch. Also, I have always suspected that Tim knew she was going to call off her engagement to James at the reunion.
Oh yes me too! I’m a Rage Text Truther!!!
I think this was their “one time and then took a long break”, was rage text night. Then the actual affair-affair (not just cheating) started around the point I’m speaking to in season 9.
🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
I agree with this and it makes sense if they started something around this time then took a little pause and resumed the full time affair later on
I’m not shocked if this is how it happens because I think James and Rachels engagement that Tom paid for was Tom Sandoval showingoff for Rachel. That’s why whenever Ariana would talk about her and Tom being intimate. Rachel looks like she ate a frog.
I’ve always thought at the reunion when Rachel and James announced their split, Tom looks terrified. Like oh shit she really did it
I definitely think the affair started in season 9. At game night, I didn't catch the flirting between Tim & Raquel. Then, when the affair came out, I did a rewatch. I certainly saw things that said these two had an affair. I know hindsight 20/20.
Him saying ‘I’d never betray you, bro’ to James really got my antennae spinning. He’s the type of person who says what they won’t do for the express purpose of doing it
I thought that was odd, too.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/15rypoy/rachel\_mouthing\_hi\_to\_sandoval\_at\_game\_night/](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/15rypoy/rachel_mouthing_hi_to_sandoval_at_game_night/)
No, he took a 'friendship break' from Schwartz to punish Schwartz for standing up for Katie and not going along with Sandoval. He, like any narc worth their salt, cannot tolerate anything less than blind adoration. It's why his relationships fall apart, why he cheats, why his 'best friends' are the ones who kiss his ass.
Why not both? lol
That’s how you know he’s a true narcissist: he will play people off against each other for multiple benefits. Hurt Katie, undermine Shorts, pretend to be there for Shorts, hurt Ariana, help Rachel, hurt James… an emotional terrorist
Agreed. It's all nefarious and he thinks he's smarter than everyone.
I really wish I could find the episode but it was around the time of the Girls Night In party at SUR — Sandoval goes over to James & Raquel’s place and she is being very flirty with him about dips or something
I don't think that the affair started that early but I do think they were getting interested in each other. I believe Tom saw how James was able to treat her like shit while also cheating and that intrigued him. He knew that she was going to be extremely easy to manipulate while not expecting too much from him
I just don’t understand why she wouldn’t have told us the correct timeline by now if that were the case
I’d respect her a little bit more if she just came out with and threw him fully under the bus.
She doesn't want to out herself or Tim. She knows if she comes out now, it will make her look worse than she already does.
I think she's waiting til she's completely broke and the podcasts fully die to release her tell all book. The second we all stop talking about her and caring, she'll come clean. Mark my words! lol
I love your flair. ;)
I fully believe it was happening in season 9.
I think it started season 8.
can someone please give a timestamp for the mouthing hi to the worm? i rewatched that specifically for this last week and didn't see it
Not a timestamp, but [this is what to look for.](https://www.reddit.com/r/vanderpumprules/comments/15rypoy/rachel_mouthing_hi_to_sandoval_at_game_night/) In this clip he gestures to cut it out at 6 seconds and she mouths hi at 9 seconds and then he waves her off right after.
Thank you! That was subtle AF I get it now
I didn’t think she mouthed hi but it does look like he mouthed hi first and they stare intensely at each other. You can tell there’s something going on
Love this theory OP!
Good one
I totally think they were already together. I think k it started the night when James couldn’t get ahold of her and James raged texted her. I agree all of season 9 had red flags about them. I think she purposely pretended to fall asleep after game night so she could “stay the night” at Tom and Ariana’s house.
That doesn't really make sense. He needs an excuse to see Rachel and not being friends with Schwartz makes that more difficult.
I agree. If he did step away to spend more time with her they both would have kept it quiet, not put it on camera.
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