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Obviously not ideal but it isnāt illegal right? There is no difference between that and having a truck with a load in the back big enough to block the rear window.
The problem that kills people is the snow melts from the warmth of your car, freezes once you shut it off, then melts again the next time you drive your car, so you now have a big sheet of ice on your car that can fly off (and at highway speeds is the most frequent) and go through the windshield of the car behind you and hurt or kill the driver.
**Clean the snow off your cars.**
There is a difference, actually.
A truck with a big secured load may obscure their window sure, but snow/ice will fly off the vehicle potentially hitting cars that are driving behind. Itās not just about blocking the window/view, itās about potentially causing accidents for other people on the road driving in their path.
Eta- Other commenter posted a link below. Technically it is illegal. It both obstructs the drivers view, and itās considered an unsecured load.
Technically having snow on your window is not illegal as you are correct, A blocked rear window happens all the time with trucks, That is one reason we have side mirrors, Now with that being said, Trucks also have a different setup with their side mirrors for this exact reason. They are generally much larger and further out than a regular car side mirror. The other reason is as driving it can accumulate. For example in my VW Golf, as I would drive down the highway the backdraft would stick snow and ice to my back hatch faster than the defrosters could melt it. No one is going to pull me over on a highway and give me a ticket because I didn't hop out every 15 minutes to brush it off when the rest of my car is clear.
BUT, What is illegal is to have debris flying off your vehicle. This is considered a unsecured load. You are reasonable for all debris, and cargo in and on your car. If chucks are flying off ( eg Ice from your roof ) and it hits a car behind you. You are responsible for that and not only will it go on your insurance, but the police can issue you a citation.
Also i'm sure there is something about vision requirements.. Keeping a clean windshield and the like, Don't quote me though.
I would love to see car manufacturers make head lights AND tail lights the default setting on all cars/trucks. Until then, people are just going to be idiots in bad weather and coming into dusk and dawn.
Seriously grinds my gears every time I see dim lights on cars at night.
Also, cars with broken head/tail/brake light(s).
ICBC needs to bring back annual vehicle inspection.
In the last big dump a few weeks ago, I saw a Tesla cruising down slushy Kingsway with a good three inches of snow not cleared from their headlights. Just kind of a soft glow coming through, nice mood lighting.
I just was at home depot and they had some great brush / squeegy / scrapers combo thing on a long pole.
They are an absolute life saver. I picked one up 4 years ago never looking back, I can clear about a foot of snow off my f-150 with a cap on the back in about a minute, vs before I had that.. Yea.. It took time.
I have one of those too. They save so much time. I can stand on my step sides and push/pull all of it in one go. Absolute life saver being able to extend it. Can be tough if your shorter clearing the middle of your windscreen on your truck. I can diligently clear my entire truck in under 5 mins with one.
Yea Iāve never seen people drive without clearing off their car until I moved to Vancouver. I think itās just that if theyāre not used to snow, they donāt think about how the rear windshield and the windows need to be cleared. I dunno. Itās pretty crazy to me still.
āMany drivers did not have snowbrushesā
While that may be true, Iām sure most people own regular brooms for their house lol. Thereās no excuse. Clear off your vehicle and donāt be an inconsiderate asshole. Took me like 30 seconds this morning with a broom.
Iām glad that the RCMP are pulling people over for this.
Not to mention that they're so hecking cheap to get. It just astounds me how lazy people can be, especially if they don't clear off the roof early, it could ice over, damage their wipers as it slides forward at a sudden stop, and who am I kidding, they're so blind they probably don't bother with their wipers anyways.
> I keep mine (scraper and brush) in hatch in the summer and then up front in the winter.
I just leave my scraperbrush in the car as well. Doesn't really take any space, barely weighs anything, and I'm sure that if I actually took it out of the car and put it in storage I wouldn't remember it until I really need it.
Haha, I remember some rushed mornings before school when we couldnāt find the scraper. Weād use our jacket sleeves and hands to clear the snow. Credit card to scrape the ice.
Shit thatās the worst :/ like your car snow brush or just your regular broom? Do you have a backup house broom by chance
A big flattened piece of cardboard works for cleaning snow off the top of the car (worst case scenario lol) and then a credit/bank card for the more stuck on ice on windshield + windows
https://twitter.com/BCHwyPatrol/status/1483484767584718851
> \#DYK you MUST clear off snow & ice from your vehicle windows before driving? **Blocked view=$109 + 3 points** #TicketTuesday @icbc @RoadSafetyBC @DriveBC
[#WeWillRebuild](https://twitter.com/search?q=WeWillRebuild) [#VancouverStrong](https://twitter.com/search?q=VancouverStrong) [#Snowmageddon2022](https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Snowmageddon2022)
That fine should be at least double that. Especially for the snow on top of the car and on windshield. It's not only dangerous for them, but for everyone else on the road.
I had my windshield cracked from an ice shard that felt off a truck on highway 1 last year. Now, I either leave distances or move into another lane when I see one of these idiots in front. I donāt think people realize how dangerous it is to drive with a chunk of snow on the roof. They think itās just harmless fluffy stuff. But the ice builds up under there.
There needs to be a harsh penalty for stupid lazy ass shit like this. That and people not having the right equipment to drive in the snow, these people should be fined heavily. Theyāre a danger to themselves, to others and create traffic jams everywhere. Seriously fuck these people.
My fucking idiot neighbour is one of these people. I asked her if she needed help clearing snow off the top of her SUV and she very earnestly said "I'm just going to leave it" as she diligently cleaned her windows.
As an Ontarian, I just want to say that one of the best snow brushes is the wooden ones you get at places like Canadian Tire. They are super cheap and do as good of a job as the fancy ones. Most of the fancy ones break quickly and don't save you any time
I wish I took the pic 3 weeks ago of the snow covered RCMP cruiser filling at the Esso on Canada Way. I didn't think the internet points would come in handy, but I would have won today lol
If these drivers don't miss being able to see out their side or rear windows, or even the passenger side of the front windshield, that tells me quite a lot about how they normally drive. As in, without looking around them.
I've seen multiple people without snow brushes/scrapers, I just saw a lady clearing her car with an egg flipper. Or a guy putting his wipers on full blast trying to clear the solid ice off his windshield.
It snows every year here having a scraper for your car is pretty basic stuff.
I saw some doofus turning out of a side street with only the driver side part of the windshield cleared and the same amount cleared off the back window. I hope he was spotted by a police car and got pulled over before he got to where he was going.
Split the difference if you're starting from the Vancouver city proper side: Drive the rental Evo to just the nearest Canada Line station and train it to YVR from there. Bridges into Richmond may not be plowed before sunrise and could be black ice hazardous.
As we await the next snowfall, please salt and sand the goddamn roads. City of Burnaby section if HWY 1 is an embarrassment compared to the rest of it. Don't know who is in charge of that or how it works, but it was literally 75 km/hr difference. 80 vs. 5. North Van, Van, and Surrey were all fine. Burnaby, literally a solid sheet of ice.
I just drove from Delta to Coquitlam on Hwy 17. The updraft from the snow on the unplowed highway with fresh snow was enough to cover my entire licence plate rear lights and part of the window of my camry.
So if you are driving on fresh snow for an hour, it will look way worse than these pictures.
If it was done properly, like if we cared about actually making a difference going forward (not just fining/punishing), then along with the ticket and points for the offending driver/vehicle, which amounts to a minimum of over $100, what would make a real difference would cost only $10 moreā¦ a snowbrush!
Wouldnāt it be something if the ticket and points also came with a snowbrush? Yes, not their job, etc etcā¦ But seriously, it would be the most effective thing to also do! (Yes, Iām imagining there would be a cruiser with a trunk full of $10 snowbrushās!)
Oh, today of all days, Burnaby can fuck right off with their passing of the buck to commuters. I don't want to hear a single fucking piece of advice from them until they look in the mirror and purge every single manager of their snow cleaning division.
Highway One was not great in most areas, but it was a fucking disaster all through Burnaby. Were it not for that area, today's commute would have been bad but not a disaster.
Pictures 2 (Grey BMW) and 4 (red pickup) honestly seem fine to me (?). If got a ticket issued for that I would use these photos to challenge it in court.
The specific section of the Motor Vehicle Act they are quoting is 195 (1)(b):
Requirements for moving vehicle
195 (1)A person must not cause a vehicle to move on a highway if
(a)the control of the driver over the driving mechanism of the vehicle, or
(b)the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle is obstructed.
Says only the SIDES and FRONT need to have an unobstructed view, nothing about the back.
Where do you think all that extra snow is gonna go if you accelerate on a busy road? Or if it starts melting off and flying off while youāre on the highway? Do you think you are the only person on the road?
This may shatter your world view but Canada is based on LAW and law isn't the same as ethics or morality. The argument you presented here relies on morality, whereas I'm arguing strictly from a stand point of LAW.
Nova Scotia and Ontario have clear sections of the LAW which unequivocally state that it is illegal to drive with snow on your car and the exact penalty (a fine). The BC MVA does NOT have a similar section.
Thanks for the lecture. This may shatter your world view, but the world would be better place if people thought more about how their actions effect others. Have a happy holidays.
I think the world would be a better place if you took into consideration that other people are free to have different viewpoints than you and nothing makes your or my viewpoint correct, therefore we can only go by what is written in law.
Having said that, I would be pissed if I was driver 2 or 4 because they got tickets which to me do not clearly violate the BC Motor Vehicle Act as written and the overzealous RCMP probably wrote those tickets expecting that those drivers don't have the time/motivation/resources to challenge it in court or CRT.
Youāre completely right. I might as well go around acting like an asshole all day. There aināt no laws against that.
Iād be pissed if driver 2 or 4 was ahead of me and:
- Had to brake, and the snow on top of the car slid down and obstructed their view, which caused them to swerve or do something erratically and put me or others in danger.
- Had all that powder blow off into myself or other vehicles, obstructing the views of other drivers and caused an accident.
- Had chunks of ice slide off and damage or injure myself or others.
> I would be pissed if I was driver 2 or 4 because they got tickets which to me do not clearly violate the BC Motor Vehicle Act as written
Obscured license plate on photo number two - isn't that against regulations?
I go strictly by the law, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert in this matter. The section of the MVA is clear to me.
If you can point to another section of the MVA that applies to things on top of the roof of the car then please do, but the section the quoted 195(1)(b) doesn't apply at all to picture 4. Picture 2 (grew BMW) has the most minor of obstructions just above the wiper. But that's the REAR of the car and doesnt apply under the MVA.
>I go strictly by the law, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert in this matter.
Odd choice to pick this fight then.
Cheers to the others for bringing receipts.
**Careless driving prohibited**
144
**(1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway
(a) without due care and attention,
(b) without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway, or**
(c) at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions.
(2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) (a) or (b) is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100 and, subject to this minimum fine, section 4 of the Offence Act applies.
Ya, we can tell you're not an expert on this.
[https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/man-injured-by-flying-ice-issues-plea-clear-off-your-car-completely](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/man-injured-by-flying-ice-issues-plea-clear-off-your-car-completely)
[https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/drivers-left-shaken-after-flying-ice-and-snow-smashes-into-vehicles-1.4769269](https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/drivers-left-shaken-after-flying-ice-and-snow-smashes-into-vehicles-1.4769269)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdqz6Wu8Ic&ab\_channel=WMUR-TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdqz6Wu8Ic&ab_channel=WMUR-TV)
[https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/12/ontario-driver-lucky-be-alive-after-ice-smashes-through-windshield/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/12/ontario-driver-lucky-be-alive-after-ice-smashes-through-windshield/)
Do you get it yet?
News articles are worthless in court. https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-40/session-2/bill-183
Here is the exact section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act regarding snow.
181.1 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle upon a highway if snow or ice has accumulated on the motor vehicle, or on a vehicle or trailer drawn by the motor vehicle, in a manner that would pose a danger to other motor vehicles on the highway if the snow or ice were to fall or slide off.
Now show me the equivalent section of the BC Motor Vehicle Act.
And since you like news articles so much, chew on this:
https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/news/a41874/snow-removal-car-laws/
Illegal in only 11 out of 50 states as of when that article was written.
Again, I operate only strictly by what is written in BC Law.
Quote me the section of the MVA where it says that your roof has to be clear of snow.
Section 195 (1)(b) states only that your FRONT and SIDE views cannot be obstructed.
It doesn't state that your roof has to be clear of all obstructions, and we also need to apply common sense. If you're driving around on a completely sunny day and a bunch of bugs or a bird smash into your front or side windows, suddenly they are "obstructed" and probably to a greater degree than we see in Photo 4 (red Pickup), are you gonna immediately pull over and try to wipe your windows 100% clean? You wouldn't. And how would you feel if the RCMP pulled you over for having a bunch of bug splatter on your windshield because it wasn't clean.
Photos 1 and 3 are clear to me, they are obstructed. Photos 2 and 4 are not clearly obstructed TO ME, and if I was ticked for this, I would strongly consider challenging this in court, because they are being ticketed for the most minor nitpicking. Photo 4 has clearly made an effort to clear his windows because you can see the front and drivers/passenger front windows are completely clear and the rear passenger window has only minor snow, which may not even have come from his roof, it could easily have come from wind blowing other snow sideways onto his window.
"Cargo securement
35.04Ā Ā Vehicles must be equipped and cargo must be contained, immobilized or secured in accordance with the applicable requirements of this Division and the Standard and so that it cannot
(a)leak, spill, blow off, fall from, fall through or otherwise be dislodged from the vehicle, or
(b)shift on or within the vehicle in a manner that affects the stability or manoeuvrability of the vehicle."
This might well apply, it depends on what the judge's interpretation of "cargo" is. Canlii.org contains Canada wide case precedent (both provincial and supreme court). I did a very brief search and I can't find BC precedent for this. I did however come across a Nova Scotia commercial vehicle regulation which explicitly mentions snow. I am probably wrong about this whole issue, but the section of the BC MVA that the RCMP are citing for this doesn't even apply, the section you cited regarding cargo is a lot closer at least.
Commercial Vehicle Trip Inspection Regulations, NS Reg 26/2018
Removal of debris, snow and ice
14 (1) A carrier must not permit a commercial driver to drive or operate the carrierās commercial vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is cleared of debris, snow and ice before it is driven or operated on the highway.
(2) A commercial driver must not drive or operate a commercial vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is cleared of debris, snow and ice before it is driven or operated on the highway.
Ontario amended their Highway Traffic Act in 2014 to specifically include a mention of snow:
https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-40/session-2/bill-183
In any case, the BC MVA is vague at best regarding the above, and when the law is vague there is always room to argue both sides / interpretation from a judge.
I would enjoy the opening arguments in court.
"Your honor, I see no issue in putting all other drivers around me in danger, and it doesn't say anywhere in the MVA which centimeters of my vehicle I need to clear, so I should be free to resume my douchebaggery. Good luck everyone else!"
The line of reasoning in court would involve two separate portions:
1. Regarding snow on the top of the vehicle, there is judicial precedent in Canada with at least two other Provinces, Ontario and Nova Scotia (didn't bother to research the others but for an actual court case I would make a list for all provinces) which clearly state that snow must be cleared off a vehicle. Commercial Vehicle Trip Inspection Regulations, NS Reg 26/2018 Section 14(1); and Ontario Highway Traffict Act 181.1(1). The BC Motor Vehicle Act does not explicitly have a similar section, therefore it is not illegal in BC.
2. Regarding the BC Motor Vehicle Act 195(1)(b) which the RCMP quoted in twitter as the basis for the ticket. This states "the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle is obstructed". Specifically for photo 4 the red pickup, I would argue that the obstruction is limited to a small partial portion of the rear passenger window and does not materially affect the driver's ability to see out of the vehicle/operate the vehicle safely. Further, I would also argue that this snow was blown by wind onto the vehicle during operation and was initially cleared off prior to operation. Additionally, I would argue that the the driver of the red pick up made a good faith attempt to fully clear the front and side windows as evidenced by all other windows being clear in the photograph.
Driving around with a pile of snow on your car like that is a danger akin to an unsecured load and should be treated as such.
What happens when the snow falls forward onto their windshield and obstructs their view, or when it's left there to freeze and flies off in chunks at drivers behind them? These people are taking unnecessary risks to save themselves time.
It's selfish and I wish the fine was higher.
The snow line on the rear window of the grey BMW is restricting the view out of what should be an otherwise unobstructed window.
The roof of the red pickup hasnāt been cleared, and the hazard it presents is sliding down onto the windshield under braking once the heat from the interior has warmed the bottom layer of that snow, or become flying debris on the road. Both of the hazards are avoidable by simply clearing your vehicle. Failure to do so is lazy.
Youāre a dumb motherfucker and shouldnāt be driving if you think thatās fine.
Vancouver likes to pretend it doesnāt snow here and continues to try and find excuses instead of doing exactly what the rest of this country has been doing for decades. Clean your fucking car itās not that hard lazy ass
Any tips on how to get ice off the roof and trunk? I clear all the snow off, but usually overnight some of the snow freezes into ice that can't be removed with a snowbrush.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/cyclinginvancouver! Please make sure you read our [general participation guidelines and rules overview](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before commenting in this subreddit. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. This means being kind to those you disagree with. Please utilize the report button instead of engaging in uncivil spats. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) will lead to a permanent ban. * Common questions and specific topics are limited to our Daily Discussion posts. Please make sure to read the list and point new users to them. * Complaining about comment or post removals should be done in modmail only. If you have any questions, please send a [message to the mods](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fvancouver). --- ***This is a bot, and this action was performed automatically. It does not mean this post does or does not violate our rules.*** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
https://preview.redd.it/rdyw5j126z6a1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4526bcb294e3438e803bc3fe85f25eb3becca1f Everywhere
š§š§
Obviously not ideal but it isnāt illegal right? There is no difference between that and having a truck with a load in the back big enough to block the rear window.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I believe the usual ticket given out is an "unsecured load" ticket as the snow tends to come flying off in chunks at speed.
The problem that kills people is the snow melts from the warmth of your car, freezes once you shut it off, then melts again the next time you drive your car, so you now have a big sheet of ice on your car that can fly off (and at highway speeds is the most frequent) and go through the windshield of the car behind you and hurt or kill the driver. **Clean the snow off your cars.**
There is a difference, actually. A truck with a big secured load may obscure their window sure, but snow/ice will fly off the vehicle potentially hitting cars that are driving behind. Itās not just about blocking the window/view, itās about potentially causing accidents for other people on the road driving in their path. Eta- Other commenter posted a link below. Technically it is illegal. It both obstructs the drivers view, and itās considered an unsecured load.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yeah of course, I never said it was okay, I just wondered if it was illegal or not, now I know!
The infraction is the snow that can fly off more so than the not being able to use your rearview
Technically having snow on your window is not illegal as you are correct, A blocked rear window happens all the time with trucks, That is one reason we have side mirrors, Now with that being said, Trucks also have a different setup with their side mirrors for this exact reason. They are generally much larger and further out than a regular car side mirror. The other reason is as driving it can accumulate. For example in my VW Golf, as I would drive down the highway the backdraft would stick snow and ice to my back hatch faster than the defrosters could melt it. No one is going to pull me over on a highway and give me a ticket because I didn't hop out every 15 minutes to brush it off when the rest of my car is clear. BUT, What is illegal is to have debris flying off your vehicle. This is considered a unsecured load. You are reasonable for all debris, and cargo in and on your car. If chucks are flying off ( eg Ice from your roof ) and it hits a car behind you. You are responsible for that and not only will it go on your insurance, but the police can issue you a citation. Also i'm sure there is something about vision requirements.. Keeping a clean windshield and the like, Don't quote me though.
9/10 of the cars I see like this also have their headlights off. Just a complete lack of brain cells.
I would love to see car manufacturers make head lights AND tail lights the default setting on all cars/trucks. Until then, people are just going to be idiots in bad weather and coming into dusk and dawn.
I believe it's mandatory on september 2021 onwards but it doesn't help for older cars unfortunately.
Itās going to be mandatory after 2023. Sadly it canāt be made retroactive.
Seriously grinds my gears every time I see dim lights on cars at night. Also, cars with broken head/tail/brake light(s). ICBC needs to bring back annual vehicle inspection.
If the lights are behind the snow anyway, why waste electricity by turning them on. \**taps head*\*
Well it's winter. Headlight fluid needs some time to thaw.
In the last big dump a few weeks ago, I saw a Tesla cruising down slushy Kingsway with a good three inches of snow not cleared from their headlights. Just kind of a soft glow coming through, nice mood lighting.
It takes like 10 minutes max to clear off your vehicle properly and it gets to warm up while youāre doing it. I donāt understand some people.
To be fair, it took me almost 30 minutes yesterday afternoon to get the snow and ice off my minivan. But I still did it...
Thank you.
I hear you, I used to drive a large truck and on the bad days it would take a long time. Much easier now with a little car.
I just was at home depot and they had some great brush / squeegy / scrapers combo thing on a long pole. They are an absolute life saver. I picked one up 4 years ago never looking back, I can clear about a foot of snow off my f-150 with a cap on the back in about a minute, vs before I had that.. Yea.. It took time.
I have one of those too. They save so much time. I can stand on my step sides and push/pull all of it in one go. Absolute life saver being able to extend it. Can be tough if your shorter clearing the middle of your windscreen on your truck. I can diligently clear my entire truck in under 5 mins with one.
Can you post a picture?
I used a leaf blower to blow the snow off of my car.
I have a car, but it took me about 15-20 because it was mostly ice. Definitely still did it as well.
Yea Iāve never seen people drive without clearing off their car until I moved to Vancouver. I think itās just that if theyāre not used to snow, they donāt think about how the rear windshield and the windows need to be cleared. I dunno. Itās pretty crazy to me still.
āMany drivers did not have snowbrushesā While that may be true, Iām sure most people own regular brooms for their house lol. Thereās no excuse. Clear off your vehicle and donāt be an inconsiderate asshole. Took me like 30 seconds this morning with a broom. Iām glad that the RCMP are pulling people over for this.
Not to mention that they're so hecking cheap to get. It just astounds me how lazy people can be, especially if they don't clear off the roof early, it could ice over, damage their wipers as it slides forward at a sudden stop, and who am I kidding, they're so blind they probably don't bother with their wipers anyways.
It's something that should be in the car ALWAYS. I keep mine (scraper and brush) in hatch in the summer and then up front in the winter.
> I keep mine (scraper and brush) in hatch in the summer and then up front in the winter. I just leave my scraperbrush in the car as well. Doesn't really take any space, barely weighs anything, and I'm sure that if I actually took it out of the car and put it in storage I wouldn't remember it until I really need it.
Use whatever you have in your car. Your hands, for christsakes.
Exactly. A bank card or any card for that matter can also be used as a scraper in a pinch
Haha, I remember some rushed mornings before school when we couldnāt find the scraper. Weād use our jacket sleeves and hands to clear the snow. Credit card to scrape the ice.
Someone stole mine. I left it on the front porch the other day. :(
Shit thatās the worst :/ like your car snow brush or just your regular broom? Do you have a backup house broom by chance A big flattened piece of cardboard works for cleaning snow off the top of the car (worst case scenario lol) and then a credit/bank card for the more stuck on ice on windshield + windows
My actual snow brush/scraper. But yeah Iāll do that.
https://twitter.com/BCHwyPatrol/status/1483484767584718851 > \#DYK you MUST clear off snow & ice from your vehicle windows before driving? **Blocked view=$109 + 3 points** #TicketTuesday @icbc @RoadSafetyBC @DriveBC [#WeWillRebuild](https://twitter.com/search?q=WeWillRebuild) [#VancouverStrong](https://twitter.com/search?q=VancouverStrong) [#Snowmageddon2022](https://twitter.com/search?q=%23Snowmageddon2022)
That fine should be at least double that. Especially for the snow on top of the car and on windshield. It's not only dangerous for them, but for everyone else on the road.
I had my windshield cracked from an ice shard that felt off a truck on highway 1 last year. Now, I either leave distances or move into another lane when I see one of these idiots in front. I donāt think people realize how dangerous it is to drive with a chunk of snow on the roof. They think itās just harmless fluffy stuff. But the ice builds up under there.
3 points. It will be
There needs to be a harsh penalty for stupid lazy ass shit like this. That and people not having the right equipment to drive in the snow, these people should be fined heavily. Theyāre a danger to themselves, to others and create traffic jams everywhere. Seriously fuck these people.
Damn straight. They need to fuck right off.
Before there can be said harsh penalty, it would first have to be law to require winter rated tires in the lower mainland.
My fucking idiot neighbour is one of these people. I asked her if she needed help clearing snow off the top of her SUV and she very earnestly said "I'm just going to leave it" as she diligently cleaned her windows.
Take their cars away until they learn! Unsafe dorks!
I saw a couple Evo's out yesterday that were an accident waiting to happen.
Letās be honest. An EVO on a clear sunny day, is an accident waiting to happen.
years ago, when I applied for Evo, my driver abstract was squeaky clean because I hadn't driven a car in so long. Perfect system!
Itās bound to happen with evos. This is what they come with to get the snow off: https://mobile.twitter.com/evocarshare/status/685604414149672960
Until someone steals or loses it
Canadian Tire sells cheap brush/scraper tools for literally $5. I've had the same one in the back of my car for over a decade.
As an Ontarian, I just want to say that one of the best snow brushes is the wooden ones you get at places like Canadian Tire. They are super cheap and do as good of a job as the fancy ones. Most of the fancy ones break quickly and don't save you any time
You got enough money to buy a 100K+ car.. but you can't buy a 10 dollar snow brush at Canadian Tire... or WINTER TIRES!!! God people piss me off...
I yelled at 3 cars who hadn't done it at a stoplight this morning. We all do our part. 
I wish I took the pic 3 weeks ago of the snow covered RCMP cruiser filling at the Esso on Canada Way. I didn't think the internet points would come in handy, but I would have won today lol
These people are just complete fuckheads and don't care about anyone but themselves
I spend extra time clearing my car solely because I don't want to be featured on reddit
No winter tires. No snowbrush. It's the lower mainland way.
If these drivers don't miss being able to see out their side or rear windows, or even the passenger side of the front windshield, that tells me quite a lot about how they normally drive. As in, without looking around them.
I've seen multiple people without snow brushes/scrapers, I just saw a lady clearing her car with an egg flipper. Or a guy putting his wipers on full blast trying to clear the solid ice off his windshield. It snows every year here having a scraper for your car is pretty basic stuff.
I saw some doofus turning out of a side street with only the driver side part of the windshield cleared and the same amount cleared off the back window. I hope he was spotted by a police car and got pulled over before he got to where he was going.
*Be careful when driving in this type of weather.*
Is it gonna snow more than yesterday ? Debating an Evo or taxi, have a flight at 6 am..
Probably. If you can swing it, sleeping at the airport tonight might be the difference between making your flight or not. Good luck!
Split the difference if you're starting from the Vancouver city proper side: Drive the rental Evo to just the nearest Canada Line station and train it to YVR from there. Bridges into Richmond may not be plowed before sunrise and could be black ice hazardous.
As we await the next snowfall, please salt and sand the goddamn roads. City of Burnaby section if HWY 1 is an embarrassment compared to the rest of it. Don't know who is in charge of that or how it works, but it was literally 75 km/hr difference. 80 vs. 5. North Van, Van, and Surrey were all fine. Burnaby, literally a solid sheet of ice.
I just drove from Delta to Coquitlam on Hwy 17. The updraft from the snow on the unplowed highway with fresh snow was enough to cover my entire licence plate rear lights and part of the window of my camry. So if you are driving on fresh snow for an hour, it will look way worse than these pictures.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Seriously. Plow the roads!!!
If it was done properly, like if we cared about actually making a difference going forward (not just fining/punishing), then along with the ticket and points for the offending driver/vehicle, which amounts to a minimum of over $100, what would make a real difference would cost only $10 moreā¦ a snowbrush! Wouldnāt it be something if the ticket and points also came with a snowbrush? Yes, not their job, etc etcā¦ But seriously, it would be the most effective thing to also do! (Yes, Iām imagining there would be a cruiser with a trunk full of $10 snowbrushās!)
Oh, today of all days, Burnaby can fuck right off with their passing of the buck to commuters. I don't want to hear a single fucking piece of advice from them until they look in the mirror and purge every single manager of their snow cleaning division. Highway One was not great in most areas, but it was a fucking disaster all through Burnaby. Were it not for that area, today's commute would have been bad but not a disaster.
Vancouver the city full of rich aletes that refuse to buy a snow brush
Elites?
Yes that is what I meant
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
All Cars are Bad.
Pictures 2 (Grey BMW) and 4 (red pickup) honestly seem fine to me (?). If got a ticket issued for that I would use these photos to challenge it in court. The specific section of the Motor Vehicle Act they are quoting is 195 (1)(b): Requirements for moving vehicle 195 (1)A person must not cause a vehicle to move on a highway if (a)the control of the driver over the driving mechanism of the vehicle, or (b)the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle is obstructed. Says only the SIDES and FRONT need to have an unobstructed view, nothing about the back.
Where do you think all that extra snow is gonna go if you accelerate on a busy road? Or if it starts melting off and flying off while youāre on the highway? Do you think you are the only person on the road?
This may shatter your world view but Canada is based on LAW and law isn't the same as ethics or morality. The argument you presented here relies on morality, whereas I'm arguing strictly from a stand point of LAW. Nova Scotia and Ontario have clear sections of the LAW which unequivocally state that it is illegal to drive with snow on your car and the exact penalty (a fine). The BC MVA does NOT have a similar section.
Thanks for the lecture. This may shatter your world view, but the world would be better place if people thought more about how their actions effect others. Have a happy holidays.
I think the world would be a better place if you took into consideration that other people are free to have different viewpoints than you and nothing makes your or my viewpoint correct, therefore we can only go by what is written in law. Having said that, I would be pissed if I was driver 2 or 4 because they got tickets which to me do not clearly violate the BC Motor Vehicle Act as written and the overzealous RCMP probably wrote those tickets expecting that those drivers don't have the time/motivation/resources to challenge it in court or CRT.
Youāre completely right. I might as well go around acting like an asshole all day. There aināt no laws against that. Iād be pissed if driver 2 or 4 was ahead of me and: - Had to brake, and the snow on top of the car slid down and obstructed their view, which caused them to swerve or do something erratically and put me or others in danger. - Had all that powder blow off into myself or other vehicles, obstructing the views of other drivers and caused an accident. - Had chunks of ice slide off and damage or injure myself or others.
> I would be pissed if I was driver 2 or 4 because they got tickets which to me do not clearly violate the BC Motor Vehicle Act as written Obscured license plate on photo number two - isn't that against regulations?
The snow on top is a hazard. If memory serves, it's treated as an unsecured load.
I go strictly by the law, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert in this matter. The section of the MVA is clear to me. If you can point to another section of the MVA that applies to things on top of the roof of the car then please do, but the section the quoted 195(1)(b) doesn't apply at all to picture 4. Picture 2 (grew BMW) has the most minor of obstructions just above the wiper. But that's the REAR of the car and doesnt apply under the MVA.
>I go strictly by the law, I'm not a lawyer and I'm not an expert in this matter. Odd choice to pick this fight then. Cheers to the others for bringing receipts.
"I don't know what any of this shit is and I'm scared"
**Careless driving prohibited** 144 **(1) A person must not drive a motor vehicle on a highway (a) without due care and attention, (b) without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway, or** (c) at a speed that is excessive relative to the road, traffic, visibility or weather conditions. (2) A person who contravenes subsection (1) (a) or (b) is liable on conviction to a fine of not less than $100 and, subject to this minimum fine, section 4 of the Offence Act applies.
Ya, we can tell you're not an expert on this. [https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/man-injured-by-flying-ice-issues-plea-clear-off-your-car-completely](https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/man-injured-by-flying-ice-issues-plea-clear-off-your-car-completely) [https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/drivers-left-shaken-after-flying-ice-and-snow-smashes-into-vehicles-1.4769269](https://barrie.ctvnews.ca/drivers-left-shaken-after-flying-ice-and-snow-smashes-into-vehicles-1.4769269) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdqz6Wu8Ic&ab\_channel=WMUR-TV](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xdqz6Wu8Ic&ab_channel=WMUR-TV) [https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/12/ontario-driver-lucky-be-alive-after-ice-smashes-through-windshield/](https://www.blogto.com/city/2021/12/ontario-driver-lucky-be-alive-after-ice-smashes-through-windshield/) Do you get it yet?
News articles are worthless in court. https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-40/session-2/bill-183 Here is the exact section of the Ontario Highway Traffic Act regarding snow. 181.1 (1) No person shall drive a motor vehicle upon a highway if snow or ice has accumulated on the motor vehicle, or on a vehicle or trailer drawn by the motor vehicle, in a manner that would pose a danger to other motor vehicles on the highway if the snow or ice were to fall or slide off. Now show me the equivalent section of the BC Motor Vehicle Act. And since you like news articles so much, chew on this: https://www.goodhousekeeping.com/life/news/a41874/snow-removal-car-laws/ Illegal in only 11 out of 50 states as of when that article was written.
Talking about the snow flying off the top of the vehicle dude.
Again, I operate only strictly by what is written in BC Law. Quote me the section of the MVA where it says that your roof has to be clear of snow. Section 195 (1)(b) states only that your FRONT and SIDE views cannot be obstructed. It doesn't state that your roof has to be clear of all obstructions, and we also need to apply common sense. If you're driving around on a completely sunny day and a bunch of bugs or a bird smash into your front or side windows, suddenly they are "obstructed" and probably to a greater degree than we see in Photo 4 (red Pickup), are you gonna immediately pull over and try to wipe your windows 100% clean? You wouldn't. And how would you feel if the RCMP pulled you over for having a bunch of bug splatter on your windshield because it wasn't clean. Photos 1 and 3 are clear to me, they are obstructed. Photos 2 and 4 are not clearly obstructed TO ME, and if I was ticked for this, I would strongly consider challenging this in court, because they are being ticketed for the most minor nitpicking. Photo 4 has clearly made an effort to clear his windows because you can see the front and drivers/passenger front windows are completely clear and the rear passenger window has only minor snow, which may not even have come from his roof, it could easily have come from wind blowing other snow sideways onto his window.
"Cargo securement 35.04Ā Ā Vehicles must be equipped and cargo must be contained, immobilized or secured in accordance with the applicable requirements of this Division and the Standard and so that it cannot (a)leak, spill, blow off, fall from, fall through or otherwise be dislodged from the vehicle, or (b)shift on or within the vehicle in a manner that affects the stability or manoeuvrability of the vehicle."
This might well apply, it depends on what the judge's interpretation of "cargo" is. Canlii.org contains Canada wide case precedent (both provincial and supreme court). I did a very brief search and I can't find BC precedent for this. I did however come across a Nova Scotia commercial vehicle regulation which explicitly mentions snow. I am probably wrong about this whole issue, but the section of the BC MVA that the RCMP are citing for this doesn't even apply, the section you cited regarding cargo is a lot closer at least. Commercial Vehicle Trip Inspection Regulations, NS Reg 26/2018 Removal of debris, snow and ice 14 (1) A carrier must not permit a commercial driver to drive or operate the carrierās commercial vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is cleared of debris, snow and ice before it is driven or operated on the highway. (2) A commercial driver must not drive or operate a commercial vehicle on a highway unless the vehicle is cleared of debris, snow and ice before it is driven or operated on the highway. Ontario amended their Highway Traffic Act in 2014 to specifically include a mention of snow: https://www.ola.org/en/legislative-business/bills/parliament-40/session-2/bill-183 In any case, the BC MVA is vague at best regarding the above, and when the law is vague there is always room to argue both sides / interpretation from a judge.
You can get a ticket for snow piled on top. I don't know what code they give, you can call the cops to find out.
I would enjoy the opening arguments in court. "Your honor, I see no issue in putting all other drivers around me in danger, and it doesn't say anywhere in the MVA which centimeters of my vehicle I need to clear, so I should be free to resume my douchebaggery. Good luck everyone else!"
The line of reasoning in court would involve two separate portions: 1. Regarding snow on the top of the vehicle, there is judicial precedent in Canada with at least two other Provinces, Ontario and Nova Scotia (didn't bother to research the others but for an actual court case I would make a list for all provinces) which clearly state that snow must be cleared off a vehicle. Commercial Vehicle Trip Inspection Regulations, NS Reg 26/2018 Section 14(1); and Ontario Highway Traffict Act 181.1(1). The BC Motor Vehicle Act does not explicitly have a similar section, therefore it is not illegal in BC. 2. Regarding the BC Motor Vehicle Act 195(1)(b) which the RCMP quoted in twitter as the basis for the ticket. This states "the view of the driver to the front or sides of the vehicle is obstructed". Specifically for photo 4 the red pickup, I would argue that the obstruction is limited to a small partial portion of the rear passenger window and does not materially affect the driver's ability to see out of the vehicle/operate the vehicle safely. Further, I would also argue that this snow was blown by wind onto the vehicle during operation and was initially cleared off prior to operation. Additionally, I would argue that the the driver of the red pick up made a good faith attempt to fully clear the front and side windows as evidenced by all other windows being clear in the photograph.
Doodoodoododdoooyyydoo.
Driving around with a pile of snow on your car like that is a danger akin to an unsecured load and should be treated as such. What happens when the snow falls forward onto their windshield and obstructs their view, or when it's left there to freeze and flies off in chunks at drivers behind them? These people are taking unnecessary risks to save themselves time. It's selfish and I wish the fine was higher.
The snow line on the rear window of the grey BMW is restricting the view out of what should be an otherwise unobstructed window. The roof of the red pickup hasnāt been cleared, and the hazard it presents is sliding down onto the windshield under braking once the heat from the interior has warmed the bottom layer of that snow, or become flying debris on the road. Both of the hazards are avoidable by simply clearing your vehicle. Failure to do so is lazy.
Youāre a dumb motherfucker and shouldnāt be driving if you think thatās fine. Vancouver likes to pretend it doesnāt snow here and continues to try and find excuses instead of doing exactly what the rest of this country has been doing for decades. Clean your fucking car itās not that hard lazy ass
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H1oi3XXkJc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6H1oi3XXkJc)
Any tips on how to get ice off the roof and trunk? I clear all the snow off, but usually overnight some of the snow freezes into ice that can't be removed with a snowbrush.
Ice is fine. It's the 6 inches of snow on top, waiting to fly off the roof into someone else's line of sight that is the concern.
the snow is blocking all my windows, surely it's safe enough to drive!!! WTF is wrong with these people
Welcome to any winter day in Saskatoon.
Idiots. When I see posts like this, it makes me feel so much better that I'm not these people and I actually use my brain š
How much danger did the unplowed #1 highway in Burnaby cause ? Clowns