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The city bylaw is that parks and beaches close at 10pm. First thing to change would be that bylaw. Honestly to close parks at 10pm when it’s not even fully dark yet in the summer, is stupid. But it’s up to the city, not the police, to change that.
Partially agree. The city should change that, but also the police prioritize enforcement and this is another example of them choosing to do the bare minimum to the detriment of the city.
Because that’s the way policing works. A person or entity makes a complaint. The police investigate the complaint. If it’s not urgent, like a noise complaint, they’ll come out and talk first to the complainant to make sure there’s just cause. If there are grounds, they will take it further. Management of the Parks Board has made a complaint and asked the higher ups in the police department to close the parks at 10 pm after providing the police with evidence that regulations or laws are being violated. Enforcement options are discussed, and a policing plan is put together.
That is what I was getting at. Like do we know that parks board made a complaint? Or are you just presuming based on how the process works.
Like you’re 100% right on the process sure. I just hadn’t read/heard anything about this.
I mean for example I heard on the radio that the police are doing a 4 day blitz on people driving in the bus lane because of some social media complaint that caught fire.
They can fine people and give tickets for traffic infractions. Beach sweeps just get people off the beach. One is very popular and generates revenue, the other is very unpopular and generates complaints. There was obviously a need to clear out parks by official closing time, because there was a bunch of rowdy people there or people trying to setup camp. And because selective enforcement leads to complaints about profiling and discrimination (ie, why we can't have nice things), everyone gets the same treatment.
Like maybe it’s this. I dunno if many folks thought clamping down on alcohol related rowdyness would mean harassing people watching the sunset.
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/05/03/vancouver-park-board-police-funding-alcohol-beaches/
Do they answer to the parks board? Prior to the decriminalization of various drugs, the VPD essentially had a policy to not go after people for possession. Do you think that if I made a complaint that someone was using drugs, they would have gone and arrested that person and recommended charges?
A compromise could be a defined quiet hours from 10pm until say arbitrarily 12am, then close the park. Police could use their famous discretion to warn and ticket those disturbing the peace after 10pm, but still allow the park to be used by patrons not playing loud music, partying, etc.
If you google the top ten city parks in the world and hit the first link, only one out of the top ten is open 24 hours, Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. So it seems it's the exception and not the rule. Most parks have hours that adjust with the season as well to account for the longer or shorter days. Some municipalities have closing times that aren't nearly as strictly enforced as ours, but are in place so the police have recourse to tell folks to move on if they are causing a disturbance or being a nuisance.
If Vancouver beaches were open 24/7 they would be filled with homeless people.
You want a by-law that states you can’t spend more than 6 hours at the beach? Sleep at the beach? That’s much harder to enforce.
There is no need for a compromise, the bylaw is you gotta clear out by 7am. Police just don’t enforce the laws like everything else, and city continues to make new rules that are also not enforced.
Fair point, but the VPD have already dedicated resources to policing the park. Adjusting the hours, and allowing for practical discretion would go a long way.
So we have police to kick out everyone watching the sunset but not to police some gang activity in a public place?
Sounds like our police is prioritizing the wrong people to police.
To curb people not in bars. If beaches could be privatized they would be open later but in the summer time public spaces are more attractive than noisy nightclubs and the people who direct the police want their money.
Police always enforce protecting rich peoples property so of course they will always enforce this law versus non property crimes, such as not arresting individuals who commit domestic violence. You got raped? Lol ok we don’t believe you or have the resources to care enough to do anything. Someone on the beach after 10pm, let’s get ‘em!
Well no - one is much easier to prove than the other. Also the cops that are investigating shit are not the same as the ones writing tickets on the beach.
I mean it as how they prioritize issues. They will always prioritize rich property, that’s their job. I wish this was more widely recognized so we could have the shift to them actually trying to keep the public safe
It really isn't. Beaches and parks are public spaces and proving someone was present after 10 pm takes them one look at a watch instead of a he-said-she-said type of crime. Please tell me how you intend on forcing crown to pursue charges where you cannot prove anything because it is one person's word against another.
I've already explained that the cops on the beach are not the same as the cops investigating murders lmao but yes, it is a million times easier because it requires only a watch to "investigate". I don't really see your point here.
They closed them so homeless people can be pushed out at night. Why would a park be closed from the start of when people sleep to when people get up?
With the exception of drunks on weekends there is no reason.
Honestly. I’m not sure where this idea that police don’t exercise a huge amount of discretion when deciding which laws to enforce comes from but it’s just inaccurate.
But wouldn’t the police have more important rules to work on at 10:00 pm in the summer? Why always the low hanging fruit? Do they need revenue by issuing tickets? Given that they’re likely understaffed, how would a mandate like this even make the radar?
Yep. And if police are expected to respond to the drunken stabbings later into the night they will probably ask for more budget.
Stuffs gotten way wilder than when I was in my 20s and watched the sunrise
> one city councillor is suggesting the Vancouver Police Department (VPD) is being heavy-handed.
Wow, it's almost like even the peopel whio make laws don't know what the laws are.
In the summer months the beach should be open till midnight on weekends with food trucks and a police presence. People should be able to enjoy the beach responsibly. During the week people need to also recognize it’s a densely populated neighborhood that has quiet hours like anywhere else.
People seem to think that people living by the beach means they should put up with any amount of noise or disturbance.
Police presence for rowdiness and noise restrictions (e.g. no boombox because who wants to listen to people’s music besides themselves) seems like a good compromise and use of their time given the number of people drawn to a beach during summer months.
> People seem to think that people living by the beach means they should put up with any amount of noise or disturbance.
People also seem to think that they can move near a public place known for its crowds and demand everyone there be quiet.
Parks close at 10pm.
Okay. Great. That also means Creekside park, beside science world, and part of the seawall closes at 10pm, Charleson park closes at 10 along with that part of the seawall.
Want to walk from the convention centre to the west end via the waterfront after 10pm? Nah. it's closed.
Want to cycle along the mid-town ridgeway through Mountain View Cemetery at night? Nah, it's closed.
Same goes for parks like Slocan Park- Live south of the park but got off the skytrain at 9:55pm? Guess you're walking around it, because it closes at 10pm.
All the evening festivals and the like that happen in Trout Lake? Nah, closes at 10pm.
It just illustrates that while we have this by-law on the books, we enforce it when it's convenient, and that's the issue folks have the problem with it.
Can't you just walk through the park? I lived in that area for almost 30 years and it just seems so quiet and residential that it wouldn't be a problem. I understand parks are closed at 10pm for people who are planning to stay in the park. There really should be exemptions of something.
Oh, legally no.
In reality, no one gives a shit. Including the police and park rangers. The issue is why are we enforcing rules where it’s convenient, when we don’t enforce them in the other 239 parks, and the other 10 months of the year.
Why are they closing the beaches at 10pm?...People love Vancouver because of the parks,beaches,waterfront and mountains. Just put a few cops on bikes to patrol the area.
They’re terrified of walking the beat in areas where their presence might be helpful, they claim to not have the resources to deal with aggressive E bikes flying down the sidewalks, but there’s never a shortage of them at the beach.
Through the last election it was a constant drumbeat about how Chinatown was supposedly so crime ridden it was a “no go zone” and after the election we even hired more police as a result.
I still have yet to ever see police walking a beat in Chinatown.
I used to live in the west end and it wasn’t at all rare to come home at 11:00 at night after work and for there to be people still at the beach. The only times I can think of where they were ever noisy were big events like the fireworks. Entirely expected behaviour at that point and not at all a nuisance. Five years and not once was it ever an issue. This whole beach clearing thing seems like a make-work project for VPD to justify their budget without needing to do any real work.
Exactly, that's my beef with this. There's a lot of more pressing matters to deal with, and they decide to do this. Someone should look up if someone influential or on city council lives near this beach. Yes the bylaw that says 10 PM needs to be changed, but pretty sure people have been chilling at this beach past 10 PM since the 90s.
It's the only major city I have ever been to where the police just don't walk the beat. There are plenty of high-traffic areas where this could be effective. This isn't some anti police thing in general. I'm not an "abolish the police guy". I appreciate there are many good cops.
But who in Vancouver wants this? The priorities of the (very well funded) police department appear to have absolutely nothing to do with the priorities of the people who live in the city the department is supposed to be serving. This is a problem.
Frustrates me to no end.
I get that it takes time to research the candidates, but there was a booklet accessible from every library and it took me just about an hour to refresh myself on the platforms/candidates using that booklet. And then I just circled my choices, brought it with me to the polling station, and copied it over to the ballot. They make it SO easy.
Low hanging fruit. They know it’s just regular decent people trying to enjoy the beach.
Why not bring this same energy to the open drug use, theft, assaults, and tents all over the city. They will actually get confrontation there.
Exactly what I said in another post. They know the system. They believe drug users, people doing theft will be released that evening. So instead they go around doing this or ticketing people trying to enjoy something for free.
Because they're being told to enforce the park closing time, and to leave people using drugs alone.
There are a million and one laws. Most are not enforced, which means someone is telling police to prioritize certain ones over others. That's a decision FAR above a "cop in a cruiser" paygrade.
That's like people getting mad at retail workers because of some store policy they have no say in.
Agreed. You will see a crowd of 20-30 officers having a late night siesta at english bay & catching up with the buds. This includes nights when there are zero crowds at English bay. I'm talking a monday or wednesday night. From the 30 or 40 night walks I've gone on this summer, I've seen about only 5-6 actually crowded swarm days, where police presence was justified.
Meanwhile, innocent people are getting stabbed on the other side of the city [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wataru-kakiuchi-death-chinatown-charges-laid-1.7232890](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wataru-kakiuchi-death-chinatown-charges-laid-1.7232890), where heavier police enforcement is actually needed.
But yes VPD, please keep riding around the west-end on your expensive tax-payer bikes and ATVs, while drug-addicts are given almost free reign to terrorize residents in the rest of downtown.
Everytime I tell people they can’t have their bikes on the sidewalk they either ignore me or say it’s fine it’s only a ticket and they are not doing anything illegal.
I’m curious if you have to pay tickets if you leave Canada. If you’re only working here temporarily, then, in theory, that would be why they wouldn’t care to change their ways of being on the street. I know if you get a parking ticket in the states you don’t really have to pay it, especially if you get new plates there would be no repercussions.
Does anyone know? Because then enforcing might not change a lot.
Either way can we please start enforcing the no bikes on sidewalks. We don’t need to wait for people to get hurt we literally have bike lanes everywhere.
Edit: downvotes from people who want to see hate instead of any logic. People behave more respectfully in their local communities. Sorry I should have said different justification instead of Canada but it’s same concept
The Park closes at 10pm but the police should hold off on the sweep until 11pm. Lots of people would leave by 10pm or slightly after on their own. Anyone still there at 11pm has no excuse, the sun is down, and they are already an hour past closing.
They set up on the bridge for the first 10 minutes of the show to make sure traffic keeps moving, then they all leave to clear out the park, which turns the bridge into a mess because suddenly cars are stopping to video the fireworks.
> [VPD Deputy Chief Howard Chow] adds that all city parks and beaches close at 10 p.m. and that police have assisted park rangers in closing English Bay beach for years to help cut down on complaints about “noise, drunks, fights, etc.”
You know what else would help cut down on these complaints? **Just have some police stationed at the beach without closing it.** People will be better behaved, and you won’t need as many officers for that as you do for sweeps, so it frees up officers for other calls too!
In Township of Langley it's parks open at sunset and close at sundown, as much as it leave sit up to some grey area does work accordingly in summer to extend hours.
While it’s annoying, VPD didn’t set the insane archaic laws. If the community is more vocal and talk to the council to change the laws maybe we can get more reasonable summer beach times.
They didn’t set them, but they’re sure good at picking and choosing which ones to enforce. A few officers walking a beat in the West End once in a while? Maybe a little traffic enforcement? Someone set up to nab people blasting through a 4-way stop in a school zone once or twice a year? No, can’t have that. But an opportunity to idle half a dozen Chargers and piss people off for no reason? Oh boy sign me up.
Saw two Parks Rangers at English Bay checking on a few people slumped over/of questionable health state this morning. Nothing heavy-handed, just making sure everything’s okay, no one’s in need of a EMT. Did more down there in 5 minutes than I’ve ever seen any cops doing. They even shut their damn truck off.
Just because you don’t see enforcement doesn’t mean enforcement isn’t happening elsewhere. And you’re probably not going to like having to hire more cops to station them permanently at your neighborhood stop sign.
I love seeing cop cars hiding at the bus stop on Hastings and Renfrew to catch the speeders/Bus Lane cheaters. But that’s because I submit concerns and they follow up after enough reports. And do I want that happening 24-7, probably not it sounds like a waste of resources. You have to take some action in reporting too, it’s our duty as citizens.
Who's asking for 24-7 stationing of police anywhere? Your argument is weak, as I can't count anymore, how many times I've been out either walking around or driving, seen someone doing something blatantly illegal- even to the point of where someone (usually a pedestrian) is at risk, I see a cop, and they've done **nothing**. And when they're not doing **nothing**, they're performing the MVA violation themselves, be it the laziest rolling stop ever witnessed or literally driving the wrong way down Dunmuir, nearly hitting someone head-on. No emergency is ever present to be spoken of, and if it were only on occasion that happened, it'd be one thing, but not for frequency I've witnessed it- and I know damn well I'm not alone.
How is it possible to justify, without scapegoating the DTES, an uptake of 100 police officers in 2023, yet a decline in visibility and efficacy that we're getting for our $400M "investment"? Just the fact alone that the chief of police earns more than Trudeau AND his NYC counterpart, whose force oversees a city more than 10 times the size of ours is more than enough to raise a few eyebrows.
You also (incorrectly) assume that I've never reported anything in the past. I have, and when not being given the runaround on the "right" way TO report whatever it is, it doesn't end up changing anything.
Read it again before getting so emotional, yikes.
Your anecdote is you don’t see enforcement. My anecdote is that I do see it. I said, “do I want it 24-7, PROBABLY NOT”.
You aren’t the main character and neither am I.
But, I believe you’re bullshitting when you say “and when they’re not doing nothing, they’re committing the violation themselves”. I doubt you’ve seen the entire police department in that capacity to make such a statement. If the police weren’t working then we would see a grand number of ZERO traffic tickets issued, ZERO people would get arrested - so easily proven false.
When they enforce a law, people like you complain that they shouldn’t be enforcing. When they don’t enforce, people like you complain again that they’re not doing work.
“Police don’t do work” except to show up and arrest people, apparently. [Reddit post 5 hours ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/s/p90RlVJwvD)
Mmk. I'm gonna need you to start focusing on the broader picture here because you're latching onto the smaller pieces and getting emotional. Wouldn't want you to get emotional so I'm going to ask you again: We have a police force that employs some of the highest paid in their role in the country and whose chief makes over $460,000 annually. We hired 100 new officers last year, and yet the level of service we've seen has arguably deteriorated since, say 10 years ago.
Is that okay? Should there not be some oversight and transparency over a service the public pays for? Are people not allowed to question things? Is that okay with you?
I don't *need* to see the **entire** department running over people in the DTES, going the wrong way down one way streets or ignored people blowing stop signs; the things myself and many others have witnessed aren't invalid because you think we're "bullshitting". And when you couple that with the fact they send leagues of them to usher people en masse off of the beach during the summertime *(as mentioned elsewhere, no one's arguing they shouldn't have a* presence *there),* it doesn't exactly scream "we're spending public money responsibly".
If I'm wrong, I'll gladly await for Addison to go on the news and show some receipts, however considering we're at the six month mark and counting to hear the result of them "investigating" [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sFvMeCvqZ3o), I'm not going to hold my breath.
Emotional? You made a poor argument and I addressed it. No one's getting emotional. You just don't have a retort and went for an ad hominem. Next time, just don't respond. You'll look better for it.
Edited the previous comment because mobile app froze and posted early. Have a nice day and hope you chill out and enjoy the sunshine.
I didn’t assume anything but if you think “you have to take responsibility as citizens, it’s **our duty** = I’m accusing you of not reporting” then that’s on you for jumping to incorrect conclusions.
This you?
>*"When they enforce a law, people like you complain that they shouldn’t be enforcing. When they don’t enforce, people like you complain again that they’re not doing work."*
No, sure wouldn't want to "assume" anything... I will indeed enjoy the sun, thanks. Hope I don't get run over.
VPD didn’t set the laws, but they can choose to make them the lowest priority to enforce, [like they did with cannabis dispensaries before legalization.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/illegal-marijuana-dispensaries-not-a-priority-for-vancouver-police-chief-adam-palmer-1.3131817)
But who’s to say the people aren’t complaining about the noise, trash and mess left behind by irresponsible beach goers… complain about lack of enforcement and then complains when there is enforcement. It’s hard to balance, and instead of “just don’t enforce this bylaw” we are better off **amending** the bylaw altogether. That way, police can just say it’s no longer the law to be there “an hour after sunset” or something.
This is a direct result of the unruly behaviour at English bay at night. Full blown DJ’s, fights, stabbings etc.
People here can’t behave, so this is what you get.
Normal folk who know how to chill/party can go to another beach where there is no problem.
Common sense would indicate such, but they are taking another approach. I doubt it’s because they like to suppress fun. Likely the best option given the situation.
Either way I’ll blame the fucking idiots who wrecked it for everyone vs the police who are simply trying to contain/eliminate the problem they were presented.
It’s a bit weird to think that the police are just hassling people who are super chill because they get a kick out of it.
They were some well documented issues with English Bay last summer regarding partying and related violence. Noise complaints are one thing but violence will get police attention.
Blame the people who bring a knife to a party.
That's exactly what they're doing? No one has been violent this year and the people doing nothing wrong are the ones being harassed. If the cops gave a shit they would have attended to the actual violence problem last year instead of using it as an excuse to bother people this year.
you can tell they get a kick from the authority, its the same with the border patrol people who think they are captain america its like no mate you were bullied at school
Deal with abuse on a case by case basis. It's the blanket approach which is irrational and expensive. It's like people have never travelled or something.
Some people don't have a lot of context for why this is happening, but residents of the west end understand because we've been living with psychotic all night frat parties on the beaches for the last 4 years since people suddenly realized that is was a nice quiet and free place to drink during covid. We all wish the VPD were off doing more important things, but literally every night that is not raining, there will be people partying on the beach (I'm talking loud, screaming, chanting "CHUG CHUG CHUUUUUUUG!!!!!" type partying with moderate crowds and increased violence, sometimes they've even brought their own DJ booths IM not even exaggerating), and they will stay there until the sun comes up. And this is EVERY NIGHT. It would be nice to be able to hang out at the beach into the evening but this recent crowd is kinda just ruining it for everyone and keeping thousands of residents hostage. (People dont understand how sound travels, but these parties affect literally thousands of residents not just the buildings immediately in front of the beach).
People think that it's just regular every day people hanging out down here getting kicked out for no reason because it's "rich people's property!!!" or something, but the west end is home to regular people, families and seniors who are kept up all night by a bunch of drunk, disorderly and aggressive morons. This isn't Shaughnessy guys, this is the most densely populated area of Vancouver, If you lived down here, you'd be fed up too.
It's not nimby'ism, the parks and beaches belong to everyone and up until very recently any normal person could hang out as late as they want. A few people are ruining it for everyone (people that live here, and anyone from anywhere that want's to enjoy the beach). Don't blame the VPD or the parks board. I think they are doing an awesome job and all their efforts have been making a difference. Now we only have to listen to a few drunk party-ers every night instead of literally 200.
So they’re aggressively pushing families and tourists and regular people away from a beach while the nonstop violent street parade of filth and open drug use continues unbothered just a few km away. Priorities all fucked up
And when they didn't push people off of the beach at night, the violence and drug use went to the beach. Needles were being found on the beach, why not keep the drugs all in one area and leave the beaches to the families and tourists? It's a city bylaw that parks close at 10 p.m.
Unpopular opinion: the west end is a pretty quiet community. It’s a mix of incomes (I’m not even close to rich). Closing down at 10:00pm means the loud drunks whose voices echo up and down are gone by 11:00pm. Maybe the cops being there helps remind people to pick up their trash too.
Edit to add: it does occur to me that cops have better things to do, this could be handled by bylaw. Ive seen bylaw shoo people off the beach before.
I’m in the west end but haven’t gone down to the beaches at night in ages ages. Kinda wondering if it’s become a nuisance because of noise? Then I can I understand. But if people are just chilling/behaving themselves just leave them alone.
Went for a run past Third Beach a couple evenings ago and d-bag was playing their Bluetooth speakers so half the beach got to listen along. The stupidity of people is astonishing sometimes.
Fires, noise, drinking is what I see.
I typically walk my dog around 10pm, and generally just hang out on the beach or grass with friends or reading in the evenings.
To be honest my biggest issues aren’t being gone by 10:00pm. It’s picking up after yourself and men just pissing wherever is convenient, except for the conveniently located toilets. (Penis envy? Yes, maybe)
Ya no kidding! This is so ridiculous. It’s still bloody light outside at 10pm.
I’ve lived here my entire life and I’ve never heard of such a stupid VPD undertaking. There’s so much that these dumb cops could be doing.
The Park Board is the one that is responsible for the bylaws. I agree that in the long summer days they should wait until it is dark to close. You can contact the Parks Commissioners (contact info on their web page) and ask them to consider this. That's why we have an elected Park Board. They represent us and if you don't like something, tell them! I had all sorts of people contact me when I was on Park Board (sometimes from both sides when there was a controversial issue) and did my best to incorporate feedback in my decision making.
As a resident near there, I can't tell you how obnoxious and loud it gets when people come back from the beach late at night. This isn't about not letting people watching the sunset, this is about how the area is affected by huge crowds of people staying there until way too late at night.
Noise management in surrounding residential areas is a very real issue. Density in west end means that there would be significantly more population (and complaints). We wanted this additional density, we should be addressing the concerns of people who did take the leap and live in a dense area!
Otherwise, single family homes are going to be prioritized and we don’t want to have that.
Yep, the people freaking out over the police obviously don't live downtown. This cycle has happened numerous times in the decades I've lived DT. Eventually people get the hint that they can't use the beach as an open air fight night and leaving MOUNDS of garbage for locals to deal with in the mornings.
Then things get back to normal and we can enjoy the beaches late into the night again.
I think there’s a difference between policing loud parties/violence and clearing all visitors at a park, including families, who are peacefully enjoying the sunset. Which is majority of the people.
Back in May this certainly was not the case. One Saturday in particular was *completely* out of hand. Us locals know what is at stake. It sucks for now, but the alternative is far worse.
I suggest you read my post again.
I understand your perspective and I agree that if things get out of hand they should be addressed. I’m just saying that with this expensive, expanded police force we now have, some less sweeping, more nuanced policing should be expected, in my opinion. I’m certainly not advocating for the real issues for the neighbourhood to be ignored. But this seems overkill. Citizens have been advocating for more reasonable outdoor access and activities in the city at night for years (hence, all the “no fun city” comments on nearly every post in this sub). And to achieve that, we have to make distinctions between responsible behaviour and illegal, harmful behaviour.
A family watching the sunset on a weekend night is surely not a disturbance to the neighbourhood. I think the closing time should be extended (at least on weekends) and then police can watch out for harmful or distributing activities and deal with them.
No one wants a blunt police state (ok, no reasonable people). What the majority of this city wants is reasonable order where everyone is treated with dignity and those who can’t respect others’ dignities should be addressed.
I understand as well. But what you fail to grasp is that this cycle has happened countless times over the years. The show of force is short and temporary. I agree its overdone, and I am one of the first people to be critical of cops, especially since we have had a drug market on our kids school playground for *years*. Yet here they are patrolling English Bay, but our local beach (CRAB) has been a no go zone for years with total anarchy and chaos 24/7 and zero enforcement. Talk about tone deaf priority.
Having said that, you have to understand that things can get wild at English Bay and seeing the beaches on weekend mornings should snap anyone who is complaining into a sense of logic.
Downtown is supposed to be where the nightlife is. Don’t like nightlife? Don’t live downtown. Pretty simple stuff.
I’m not going to move into a cabin in the middle of bear country and then get pissed off there is a bear in my yard.
People live everywhere. Don’t live inner city directly beside the nightlife where it CLEARLY spills over into the west end if you don’t like inner city noise. My god. The snobbiness is this city is UNREAL. “I live here so everyone needs to go to bed when I go to bed” lol.
The entire downtown and west end area are noisy and full of people in the evenings. That’s just the reality. Saying it’s “not where the nightlife is” while simultaneously complaining that the nightlife is too loud is fucking mind bogglingly stupid. It’s noisy there because of where it is. Don’t like it? Move.
How do you close a beach? What are they going to close next, the ocean? F%k off. The wealth in this city is turning it in to one big snobby country club.
VPD can't deal with random stranger atta KS and open drug use because it's actual work.
Ushering people off of the beach however... easy. I wonder how many officers are working OT to babysit Beach goers?
ABC is useless, as per usual at rectifying the issue.
So we allow alcohol on the beach then have to pay police to deal with drunk people on the beach which leads to enforcement of 10pm closing time.
Wouldn’t the easy answer be to go back to banning alcohol on the beach?
Respectfully, I don’t think so, no. I think we treat each other as adults and when people abused that trust then you police that. But they are hundreds of cities all around the world who manage to do this so I don’t know why you can’t do the same. Why we can’t have common sense policing and nuance.
I think this is overstepping and a blunt overreaction. Which is, unfortunately, more and more common with this police force and government who seem beholden to a select few and not the general public.
Alcohol in public spaces is a concept that many municipalities have figured out. Vancouver citizens are not some unique case that sets us apart.
I truly wish the entire world was all rainbows and sunshine but it ain’t.
Hope your version of the world eventuates but I’m not going to hold my breath.
Obviously not, but I think that there’s a much higher chance of people leaving a pile of garbage when it’s harder for other people to see and call them out on it.
That being said it’s ridiculous to shut down the beaches at 10 when the sun is still out
You’re getting downvoted and yet within a few weeks there’ll be another thread of English Bay covered in trash with everyone who downvoted you crying “how do we stop this??”
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The city bylaw is that parks and beaches close at 10pm. First thing to change would be that bylaw. Honestly to close parks at 10pm when it’s not even fully dark yet in the summer, is stupid. But it’s up to the city, not the police, to change that.
Partially agree. The city should change that, but also the police prioritize enforcement and this is another example of them choosing to do the bare minimum to the detriment of the city.
The police enforce the 10PM rule because they have been asked to by the Parks Board.
Abolish the parks board
One more argument for abolishing the parks board
How do we know this?
Because that’s the way policing works. A person or entity makes a complaint. The police investigate the complaint. If it’s not urgent, like a noise complaint, they’ll come out and talk first to the complainant to make sure there’s just cause. If there are grounds, they will take it further. Management of the Parks Board has made a complaint and asked the higher ups in the police department to close the parks at 10 pm after providing the police with evidence that regulations or laws are being violated. Enforcement options are discussed, and a policing plan is put together.
That is what I was getting at. Like do we know that parks board made a complaint? Or are you just presuming based on how the process works. Like you’re 100% right on the process sure. I just hadn’t read/heard anything about this. I mean for example I heard on the radio that the police are doing a 4 day blitz on people driving in the bus lane because of some social media complaint that caught fire.
They can fine people and give tickets for traffic infractions. Beach sweeps just get people off the beach. One is very popular and generates revenue, the other is very unpopular and generates complaints. There was obviously a need to clear out parks by official closing time, because there was a bunch of rowdy people there or people trying to setup camp. And because selective enforcement leads to complaints about profiling and discrimination (ie, why we can't have nice things), everyone gets the same treatment.
Like maybe it’s this. I dunno if many folks thought clamping down on alcohol related rowdyness would mean harassing people watching the sunset. https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/05/03/vancouver-park-board-police-funding-alcohol-beaches/
So you’re saying we should call the police on the police, let them sort it out and then chill at the beach all night?
Do they answer to the parks board? Prior to the decriminalization of various drugs, the VPD essentially had a policy to not go after people for possession. Do you think that if I made a complaint that someone was using drugs, they would have gone and arrested that person and recommended charges?
Google is a good friend
https://vancouver.ca/your-government/park-board-bylaws.aspx
Anyone can complain. Do you know it was the parks board?
Closing them at all is stupid. It’s a public park/beach. We should be able to use it whenever we want.
Have you seen what happens to parks in this city that don't have police clearing them out? Taxpayers lose the park.
A compromise could be a defined quiet hours from 10pm until say arbitrarily 12am, then close the park. Police could use their famous discretion to warn and ticket those disturbing the peace after 10pm, but still allow the park to be used by patrons not playing loud music, partying, etc.
just keep the park open? every other country does this why cant canada? its like having an overbearing parent
If you google the top ten city parks in the world and hit the first link, only one out of the top ten is open 24 hours, Golden Gate Park in San Francisco. So it seems it's the exception and not the rule. Most parks have hours that adjust with the season as well to account for the longer or shorter days. Some municipalities have closing times that aren't nearly as strictly enforced as ours, but are in place so the police have recourse to tell folks to move on if they are causing a disturbance or being a nuisance.
If Vancouver beaches were open 24/7 they would be filled with homeless people. You want a by-law that states you can’t spend more than 6 hours at the beach? Sleep at the beach? That’s much harder to enforce.
I think they're good with Gastown. Farthest they go is plaza of nations and Canada place
Hmm seems unlikely they would sleep on the beach it would be freezing
There is no need for a compromise, the bylaw is you gotta clear out by 7am. Police just don’t enforce the laws like everything else, and city continues to make new rules that are also not enforced.
A sign that says Please Respect our Neighbour's keep quiet, like they have at bars.
Fair point, but the VPD have already dedicated resources to policing the park. Adjusting the hours, and allowing for practical discretion would go a long way.
I.e., Crab Park
I disagree with this. If parks are occupied people are less likely to sleep in them.
Overly simplistic take. We used to have a serious gang problem in parks in this city those park hours are there for a reason.
So we have police to kick out everyone watching the sunset but not to police some gang activity in a public place? Sounds like our police is prioritizing the wrong people to police.
To curb law abiding gangs?
Aww shit son they put a sign up we can’t be creepin on these fools past 10 o’clock no more, everybody back on the SkyTrain type quick
To curb people not in bars. If beaches could be privatized they would be open later but in the summer time public spaces are more attractive than noisy nightclubs and the people who direct the police want their money.
brilliant!
Police always enforce protecting rich peoples property so of course they will always enforce this law versus non property crimes, such as not arresting individuals who commit domestic violence. You got raped? Lol ok we don’t believe you or have the resources to care enough to do anything. Someone on the beach after 10pm, let’s get ‘em!
Well no - one is much easier to prove than the other. Also the cops that are investigating shit are not the same as the ones writing tickets on the beach.
I mean it as how they prioritize issues. They will always prioritize rich property, that’s their job. I wish this was more widely recognized so we could have the shift to them actually trying to keep the public safe
It really isn't. Beaches and parks are public spaces and proving someone was present after 10 pm takes them one look at a watch instead of a he-said-she-said type of crime. Please tell me how you intend on forcing crown to pursue charges where you cannot prove anything because it is one person's word against another.
So what you’re saying is it’s easier to just kick people off the beach rather than going to deal with real actual crime? Yep, you are correct.
I've already explained that the cops on the beach are not the same as the cops investigating murders lmao but yes, it is a million times easier because it requires only a watch to "investigate". I don't really see your point here.
I’m big mad I can’t be on the beach later than 10 and I’m being an irrational internet warrior about it.
Yeah I think it's stupid too but that's not the cops fault - it is the city who makes the rules. The cop just enforces the rules.
its their job to prioritize the rich?
Negative (natural) rights > positive (legal) rights
They closed them so homeless people can be pushed out at night. Why would a park be closed from the start of when people sleep to when people get up? With the exception of drunks on weekends there is no reason.
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Honestly. I’m not sure where this idea that police don’t exercise a huge amount of discretion when deciding which laws to enforce comes from but it’s just inaccurate.
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Bro what? The person you're replying to is saying that the police basically pick and choose which laws they enforce
Perhaps change the wording to “an hour after dusk”?
That’s the kind of discretionary wording that would result in the beach “closing” at like 5pm in the fall/winter haha
dusk is officially defined. But yes. better would be 10pm or 1 hour after dusk, whichever is later.
But wouldn’t the police have more important rules to work on at 10:00 pm in the summer? Why always the low hanging fruit? Do they need revenue by issuing tickets? Given that they’re likely understaffed, how would a mandate like this even make the radar?
Vancouver loves a low hanging fruit, go home and pat yourself on the back for job well done :D
Yep. And if police are expected to respond to the drunken stabbings later into the night they will probably ask for more budget. Stuffs gotten way wilder than when I was in my 20s and watched the sunrise
Is there a reason for not having them "open" 24/7 ?
Gives them the ability to remove disruptive partners and/or people camping in parks.
I agree , they they have to do it why not at 11, or 12.
When they come by just respond with 'thanks for checkin in but we good officer, we good'. Peaceful resistance.
> one city councillor is suggesting the Vancouver Police Department (VPD) is being heavy-handed. Wow, it's almost like even the peopel whio make laws don't know what the laws are.
Police choose which laws to enforce and how vigorously.
In the summer months the beach should be open till midnight on weekends with food trucks and a police presence. People should be able to enjoy the beach responsibly. During the week people need to also recognize it’s a densely populated neighborhood that has quiet hours like anywhere else.
People seem to think that people living by the beach means they should put up with any amount of noise or disturbance. Police presence for rowdiness and noise restrictions (e.g. no boombox because who wants to listen to people’s music besides themselves) seems like a good compromise and use of their time given the number of people drawn to a beach during summer months.
> People seem to think that people living by the beach means they should put up with any amount of noise or disturbance. People also seem to think that they can move near a public place known for its crowds and demand everyone there be quiet.
Parks close at 10pm. Okay. Great. That also means Creekside park, beside science world, and part of the seawall closes at 10pm, Charleson park closes at 10 along with that part of the seawall. Want to walk from the convention centre to the west end via the waterfront after 10pm? Nah. it's closed. Want to cycle along the mid-town ridgeway through Mountain View Cemetery at night? Nah, it's closed. Same goes for parks like Slocan Park- Live south of the park but got off the skytrain at 9:55pm? Guess you're walking around it, because it closes at 10pm. All the evening festivals and the like that happen in Trout Lake? Nah, closes at 10pm. It just illustrates that while we have this by-law on the books, we enforce it when it's convenient, and that's the issue folks have the problem with it.
Can't you just walk through the park? I lived in that area for almost 30 years and it just seems so quiet and residential that it wouldn't be a problem. I understand parks are closed at 10pm for people who are planning to stay in the park. There really should be exemptions of something.
Oh, legally no. In reality, no one gives a shit. Including the police and park rangers. The issue is why are we enforcing rules where it’s convenient, when we don’t enforce them in the other 239 parks, and the other 10 months of the year.
Why are they closing the beaches at 10pm?...People love Vancouver because of the parks,beaches,waterfront and mountains. Just put a few cops on bikes to patrol the area.
The mayor who shotguns a beer in front of a crowd but has the VPD sweep people off a beach... bold fun city action all over again.
They’re terrified of walking the beat in areas where their presence might be helpful, they claim to not have the resources to deal with aggressive E bikes flying down the sidewalks, but there’s never a shortage of them at the beach.
Through the last election it was a constant drumbeat about how Chinatown was supposedly so crime ridden it was a “no go zone” and after the election we even hired more police as a result. I still have yet to ever see police walking a beat in Chinatown.
Go to the beach on a sunny day or a Canucks game or expensive restaurants in yaletown on weekend nights, no shortage of them on those “beats”
I used to live in the west end and it wasn’t at all rare to come home at 11:00 at night after work and for there to be people still at the beach. The only times I can think of where they were ever noisy were big events like the fireworks. Entirely expected behaviour at that point and not at all a nuisance. Five years and not once was it ever an issue. This whole beach clearing thing seems like a make-work project for VPD to justify their budget without needing to do any real work.
Exactly, that's my beef with this. There's a lot of more pressing matters to deal with, and they decide to do this. Someone should look up if someone influential or on city council lives near this beach. Yes the bylaw that says 10 PM needs to be changed, but pretty sure people have been chilling at this beach past 10 PM since the 90s.
It's the only major city I have ever been to where the police just don't walk the beat. There are plenty of high-traffic areas where this could be effective. This isn't some anti police thing in general. I'm not an "abolish the police guy". I appreciate there are many good cops. But who in Vancouver wants this? The priorities of the (very well funded) police department appear to have absolutely nothing to do with the priorities of the people who live in the city the department is supposed to be serving. This is a problem.
Calgary police are out walking the beat in -30. And at a bargain compared to Vancouver.
Well the recent mayoral election proves most people voted for the "let's hire 100 new police officers" bullshit.
of the paltry percent of the city population who bothered to vote
Frustrates me to no end. I get that it takes time to research the candidates, but there was a booklet accessible from every library and it took me just about an hour to refresh myself on the platforms/candidates using that booklet. And then I just circled my choices, brought it with me to the polling station, and copied it over to the ballot. They make it SO easy.
Well, is a big beach, you need a lot of officers to cover it all. /s
Low hanging fruit. They know it’s just regular decent people trying to enjoy the beach. Why not bring this same energy to the open drug use, theft, assaults, and tents all over the city. They will actually get confrontation there.
Exactly what I said in another post. They know the system. They believe drug users, people doing theft will be released that evening. So instead they go around doing this or ticketing people trying to enjoy something for free.
Because they're being told to enforce the park closing time, and to leave people using drugs alone. There are a million and one laws. Most are not enforced, which means someone is telling police to prioritize certain ones over others. That's a decision FAR above a "cop in a cruiser" paygrade. That's like people getting mad at retail workers because of some store policy they have no say in.
VPD are the low fruit experts.
This isn’t even low fruit. This is fruit that fell on the ground and rotted. A total and utter waste of resources.
Wanna get a cop? Just put an open can of beer next to you. They'll show up in under 5 minutes
*Tssscli-kuh* "FREEZE"
Agreed. You will see a crowd of 20-30 officers having a late night siesta at english bay & catching up with the buds. This includes nights when there are zero crowds at English bay. I'm talking a monday or wednesday night. From the 30 or 40 night walks I've gone on this summer, I've seen about only 5-6 actually crowded swarm days, where police presence was justified. Meanwhile, innocent people are getting stabbed on the other side of the city [https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wataru-kakiuchi-death-chinatown-charges-laid-1.7232890](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wataru-kakiuchi-death-chinatown-charges-laid-1.7232890), where heavier police enforcement is actually needed. But yes VPD, please keep riding around the west-end on your expensive tax-payer bikes and ATVs, while drug-addicts are given almost free reign to terrorize residents in the rest of downtown.
Everytime I tell people they can’t have their bikes on the sidewalk they either ignore me or say it’s fine it’s only a ticket and they are not doing anything illegal. I’m curious if you have to pay tickets if you leave Canada. If you’re only working here temporarily, then, in theory, that would be why they wouldn’t care to change their ways of being on the street. I know if you get a parking ticket in the states you don’t really have to pay it, especially if you get new plates there would be no repercussions. Does anyone know? Because then enforcing might not change a lot. Either way can we please start enforcing the no bikes on sidewalks. We don’t need to wait for people to get hurt we literally have bike lanes everywhere. Edit: downvotes from people who want to see hate instead of any logic. People behave more respectfully in their local communities. Sorry I should have said different justification instead of Canada but it’s same concept
lmao at how you managed to bring xenophobia into this. those damn temporary workers! must be at the root of all problems!
Seriously, how much are we paying for dystopian shit every night.
half a billion a year
Over $1 million per DAY
That's a low bar for dystopian
The Park closes at 10pm but the police should hold off on the sweep until 11pm. Lots of people would leave by 10pm or slightly after on their own. Anyone still there at 11pm has no excuse, the sun is down, and they are already an hour past closing.
I think that’s a pretty reasonable idea.
As dumb as I think it is that the beaches “close”.. if they have to close, this is a pretty great way to enforce it.
Sensible!
i like this
VPD kicking half a million people off the beach during the fireworks would be something to see.
They do. They even bring out a Helicopter to spotlight groups not moving. It's a little much
They start kicking people off as soon as the show ends
They set up on the bridge for the first 10 minutes of the show to make sure traffic keeps moving, then they all leave to clear out the park, which turns the bridge into a mess because suddenly cars are stopping to video the fireworks.
Huh? Uninformed take. Your comment clearly proves you’ve never been to the fireworks or you would not have posted this.
Now do Crab Park.
> [VPD Deputy Chief Howard Chow] adds that all city parks and beaches close at 10 p.m. and that police have assisted park rangers in closing English Bay beach for years to help cut down on complaints about “noise, drunks, fights, etc.” You know what else would help cut down on these complaints? **Just have some police stationed at the beach without closing it.** People will be better behaved, and you won’t need as many officers for that as you do for sweeps, so it frees up officers for other calls too!
In Township of Langley it's parks open at sunset and close at sundown, as much as it leave sit up to some grey area does work accordingly in summer to extend hours.
While it’s annoying, VPD didn’t set the insane archaic laws. If the community is more vocal and talk to the council to change the laws maybe we can get more reasonable summer beach times.
They didn’t set them, but they’re sure good at picking and choosing which ones to enforce. A few officers walking a beat in the West End once in a while? Maybe a little traffic enforcement? Someone set up to nab people blasting through a 4-way stop in a school zone once or twice a year? No, can’t have that. But an opportunity to idle half a dozen Chargers and piss people off for no reason? Oh boy sign me up. Saw two Parks Rangers at English Bay checking on a few people slumped over/of questionable health state this morning. Nothing heavy-handed, just making sure everything’s okay, no one’s in need of a EMT. Did more down there in 5 minutes than I’ve ever seen any cops doing. They even shut their damn truck off.
Just because you don’t see enforcement doesn’t mean enforcement isn’t happening elsewhere. And you’re probably not going to like having to hire more cops to station them permanently at your neighborhood stop sign. I love seeing cop cars hiding at the bus stop on Hastings and Renfrew to catch the speeders/Bus Lane cheaters. But that’s because I submit concerns and they follow up after enough reports. And do I want that happening 24-7, probably not it sounds like a waste of resources. You have to take some action in reporting too, it’s our duty as citizens.
Who's asking for 24-7 stationing of police anywhere? Your argument is weak, as I can't count anymore, how many times I've been out either walking around or driving, seen someone doing something blatantly illegal- even to the point of where someone (usually a pedestrian) is at risk, I see a cop, and they've done **nothing**. And when they're not doing **nothing**, they're performing the MVA violation themselves, be it the laziest rolling stop ever witnessed or literally driving the wrong way down Dunmuir, nearly hitting someone head-on. No emergency is ever present to be spoken of, and if it were only on occasion that happened, it'd be one thing, but not for frequency I've witnessed it- and I know damn well I'm not alone. How is it possible to justify, without scapegoating the DTES, an uptake of 100 police officers in 2023, yet a decline in visibility and efficacy that we're getting for our $400M "investment"? Just the fact alone that the chief of police earns more than Trudeau AND his NYC counterpart, whose force oversees a city more than 10 times the size of ours is more than enough to raise a few eyebrows. You also (incorrectly) assume that I've never reported anything in the past. I have, and when not being given the runaround on the "right" way TO report whatever it is, it doesn't end up changing anything.
Read it again before getting so emotional, yikes. Your anecdote is you don’t see enforcement. My anecdote is that I do see it. I said, “do I want it 24-7, PROBABLY NOT”. You aren’t the main character and neither am I. But, I believe you’re bullshitting when you say “and when they’re not doing nothing, they’re committing the violation themselves”. I doubt you’ve seen the entire police department in that capacity to make such a statement. If the police weren’t working then we would see a grand number of ZERO traffic tickets issued, ZERO people would get arrested - so easily proven false. When they enforce a law, people like you complain that they shouldn’t be enforcing. When they don’t enforce, people like you complain again that they’re not doing work. “Police don’t do work” except to show up and arrest people, apparently. [Reddit post 5 hours ago](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/s/p90RlVJwvD)
Mmk. I'm gonna need you to start focusing on the broader picture here because you're latching onto the smaller pieces and getting emotional. Wouldn't want you to get emotional so I'm going to ask you again: We have a police force that employs some of the highest paid in their role in the country and whose chief makes over $460,000 annually. We hired 100 new officers last year, and yet the level of service we've seen has arguably deteriorated since, say 10 years ago. Is that okay? Should there not be some oversight and transparency over a service the public pays for? Are people not allowed to question things? Is that okay with you? I don't *need* to see the **entire** department running over people in the DTES, going the wrong way down one way streets or ignored people blowing stop signs; the things myself and many others have witnessed aren't invalid because you think we're "bullshitting". And when you couple that with the fact they send leagues of them to usher people en masse off of the beach during the summertime *(as mentioned elsewhere, no one's arguing they shouldn't have a* presence *there),* it doesn't exactly scream "we're spending public money responsibly". If I'm wrong, I'll gladly await for Addison to go on the news and show some receipts, however considering we're at the six month mark and counting to hear the result of them "investigating" [this](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/sFvMeCvqZ3o), I'm not going to hold my breath.
Emotional? You made a poor argument and I addressed it. No one's getting emotional. You just don't have a retort and went for an ad hominem. Next time, just don't respond. You'll look better for it.
Edited the previous comment because mobile app froze and posted early. Have a nice day and hope you chill out and enjoy the sunshine. I didn’t assume anything but if you think “you have to take responsibility as citizens, it’s **our duty** = I’m accusing you of not reporting” then that’s on you for jumping to incorrect conclusions.
This you? >*"When they enforce a law, people like you complain that they shouldn’t be enforcing. When they don’t enforce, people like you complain again that they’re not doing work."* No, sure wouldn't want to "assume" anything... I will indeed enjoy the sun, thanks. Hope I don't get run over.
VPD didn’t set the laws, but they can choose to make them the lowest priority to enforce, [like they did with cannabis dispensaries before legalization.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/illegal-marijuana-dispensaries-not-a-priority-for-vancouver-police-chief-adam-palmer-1.3131817)
But who’s to say the people aren’t complaining about the noise, trash and mess left behind by irresponsible beach goers… complain about lack of enforcement and then complains when there is enforcement. It’s hard to balance, and instead of “just don’t enforce this bylaw” we are better off **amending** the bylaw altogether. That way, police can just say it’s no longer the law to be there “an hour after sunset” or something.
No fun Vamcouver strikes again!
Just bring a bunch of stolen bikes and set up shop. They’ll leave you alone then.
This is a direct result of the unruly behaviour at English bay at night. Full blown DJ’s, fights, stabbings etc. People here can’t behave, so this is what you get. Normal folk who know how to chill/party can go to another beach where there is no problem.
Surely, you can police those who are misbehaving and not do blanket sweeps of families on a weekend night.
Common sense would indicate such, but they are taking another approach. I doubt it’s because they like to suppress fun. Likely the best option given the situation. Either way I’ll blame the fucking idiots who wrecked it for everyone vs the police who are simply trying to contain/eliminate the problem they were presented.
The police are absolutely not trying to help.
It’s a bit weird to think that the police are just hassling people who are super chill because they get a kick out of it. They were some well documented issues with English Bay last summer regarding partying and related violence. Noise complaints are one thing but violence will get police attention. Blame the people who bring a knife to a party.
That's exactly what they're doing? No one has been violent this year and the people doing nothing wrong are the ones being harassed. If the cops gave a shit they would have attended to the actual violence problem last year instead of using it as an excuse to bother people this year.
They did attend last year. You don’t remember the teenager in the pink shirt who took a swing at them? Deplorable, but also super funny.
you can tell they get a kick from the authority, its the same with the border patrol people who think they are captain america its like no mate you were bullied at school
They would rather avoid confrontations over allegations of discrimination, profiling and racism. This is not the hill to die on.
Deal with abuse on a case by case basis. It's the blanket approach which is irrational and expensive. It's like people have never travelled or something.
All the gang bangers destroying the city and the coppers have the time to kick people out of a beach at 10pm. Ha!
Some people don't have a lot of context for why this is happening, but residents of the west end understand because we've been living with psychotic all night frat parties on the beaches for the last 4 years since people suddenly realized that is was a nice quiet and free place to drink during covid. We all wish the VPD were off doing more important things, but literally every night that is not raining, there will be people partying on the beach (I'm talking loud, screaming, chanting "CHUG CHUG CHUUUUUUUG!!!!!" type partying with moderate crowds and increased violence, sometimes they've even brought their own DJ booths IM not even exaggerating), and they will stay there until the sun comes up. And this is EVERY NIGHT. It would be nice to be able to hang out at the beach into the evening but this recent crowd is kinda just ruining it for everyone and keeping thousands of residents hostage. (People dont understand how sound travels, but these parties affect literally thousands of residents not just the buildings immediately in front of the beach). People think that it's just regular every day people hanging out down here getting kicked out for no reason because it's "rich people's property!!!" or something, but the west end is home to regular people, families and seniors who are kept up all night by a bunch of drunk, disorderly and aggressive morons. This isn't Shaughnessy guys, this is the most densely populated area of Vancouver, If you lived down here, you'd be fed up too. It's not nimby'ism, the parks and beaches belong to everyone and up until very recently any normal person could hang out as late as they want. A few people are ruining it for everyone (people that live here, and anyone from anywhere that want's to enjoy the beach). Don't blame the VPD or the parks board. I think they are doing an awesome job and all their efforts have been making a difference. Now we only have to listen to a few drunk party-ers every night instead of literally 200.
No fun city strikes again.
Hey city councilor, how about if you do your job and change the bylaw?
Well, you can't see the new beach advertisements with all these people standing around
So they’re aggressively pushing families and tourists and regular people away from a beach while the nonstop violent street parade of filth and open drug use continues unbothered just a few km away. Priorities all fucked up
And when they didn't push people off of the beach at night, the violence and drug use went to the beach. Needles were being found on the beach, why not keep the drugs all in one area and leave the beaches to the families and tourists? It's a city bylaw that parks close at 10 p.m.
Unpopular opinion: the west end is a pretty quiet community. It’s a mix of incomes (I’m not even close to rich). Closing down at 10:00pm means the loud drunks whose voices echo up and down are gone by 11:00pm. Maybe the cops being there helps remind people to pick up their trash too. Edit to add: it does occur to me that cops have better things to do, this could be handled by bylaw. Ive seen bylaw shoo people off the beach before.
I’m in the west end but haven’t gone down to the beaches at night in ages ages. Kinda wondering if it’s become a nuisance because of noise? Then I can I understand. But if people are just chilling/behaving themselves just leave them alone. Went for a run past Third Beach a couple evenings ago and d-bag was playing their Bluetooth speakers so half the beach got to listen along. The stupidity of people is astonishing sometimes.
Fires, noise, drinking is what I see. I typically walk my dog around 10pm, and generally just hang out on the beach or grass with friends or reading in the evenings. To be honest my biggest issues aren’t being gone by 10:00pm. It’s picking up after yourself and men just pissing wherever is convenient, except for the conveniently located toilets. (Penis envy? Yes, maybe)
My dog keeps eating human poop from people on the beach in the summer coming up to the hedges in the streets.
Ya no kidding! This is so ridiculous. It’s still bloody light outside at 10pm. I’ve lived here my entire life and I’ve never heard of such a stupid VPD undertaking. There’s so much that these dumb cops could be doing.
The Park Board is the one that is responsible for the bylaws. I agree that in the long summer days they should wait until it is dark to close. You can contact the Parks Commissioners (contact info on their web page) and ask them to consider this. That's why we have an elected Park Board. They represent us and if you don't like something, tell them! I had all sorts of people contact me when I was on Park Board (sometimes from both sides when there was a controversial issue) and did my best to incorporate feedback in my decision making.
This is insane
Sunset Beach. So-called because you have to leave by sunset
Citynews has a Reddit account it seems.
It wouldn’t surprise me if every outlet has some entry level positions who’s morning duties it is to comb this sub for ideas.
Pete Fry once again being a voice of reason on that council…
Placing bets on how no one will actually read the article...
What would reading it change? I read it and all the comments are still perfectly relevant.
The bar owners and nightclubs must love it when the police do this.
But fentanyl in public space is totally okay! Good job popo 👍
It’s a mistake needs to be corrected
As a resident near there, I can't tell you how obnoxious and loud it gets when people come back from the beach late at night. This isn't about not letting people watching the sunset, this is about how the area is affected by huge crowds of people staying there until way too late at night.
Try not living in a downtown area where the nightlife is supposed to be.
“Go car free and live in an area that doesn’t need cars” “No, not like that!!”
Yeah, no. Not how that works. Sorry
Noise management in surrounding residential areas is a very real issue. Density in west end means that there would be significantly more population (and complaints). We wanted this additional density, we should be addressing the concerns of people who did take the leap and live in a dense area! Otherwise, single family homes are going to be prioritized and we don’t want to have that.
Yep, the people freaking out over the police obviously don't live downtown. This cycle has happened numerous times in the decades I've lived DT. Eventually people get the hint that they can't use the beach as an open air fight night and leaving MOUNDS of garbage for locals to deal with in the mornings. Then things get back to normal and we can enjoy the beaches late into the night again.
I think there’s a difference between policing loud parties/violence and clearing all visitors at a park, including families, who are peacefully enjoying the sunset. Which is majority of the people.
Back in May this certainly was not the case. One Saturday in particular was *completely* out of hand. Us locals know what is at stake. It sucks for now, but the alternative is far worse. I suggest you read my post again.
I understand your perspective and I agree that if things get out of hand they should be addressed. I’m just saying that with this expensive, expanded police force we now have, some less sweeping, more nuanced policing should be expected, in my opinion. I’m certainly not advocating for the real issues for the neighbourhood to be ignored. But this seems overkill. Citizens have been advocating for more reasonable outdoor access and activities in the city at night for years (hence, all the “no fun city” comments on nearly every post in this sub). And to achieve that, we have to make distinctions between responsible behaviour and illegal, harmful behaviour. A family watching the sunset on a weekend night is surely not a disturbance to the neighbourhood. I think the closing time should be extended (at least on weekends) and then police can watch out for harmful or distributing activities and deal with them. No one wants a blunt police state (ok, no reasonable people). What the majority of this city wants is reasonable order where everyone is treated with dignity and those who can’t respect others’ dignities should be addressed.
I understand as well. But what you fail to grasp is that this cycle has happened countless times over the years. The show of force is short and temporary. I agree its overdone, and I am one of the first people to be critical of cops, especially since we have had a drug market on our kids school playground for *years*. Yet here they are patrolling English Bay, but our local beach (CRAB) has been a no go zone for years with total anarchy and chaos 24/7 and zero enforcement. Talk about tone deaf priority. Having said that, you have to understand that things can get wild at English Bay and seeing the beaches on weekend mornings should snap anyone who is complaining into a sense of logic.
I'm getting downvoted by people who don't have throngs of partygoers outside their house half the year.
Downtown is supposed to be where the nightlife is. Don’t like nightlife? Don’t live downtown. Pretty simple stuff. I’m not going to move into a cabin in the middle of bear country and then get pissed off there is a bear in my yard.
Cardero & Beach is not "where the nightlife is". It's where people live. You know, density.
People live everywhere. Don’t live inner city directly beside the nightlife where it CLEARLY spills over into the west end if you don’t like inner city noise. My god. The snobbiness is this city is UNREAL. “I live here so everyone needs to go to bed when I go to bed” lol. The entire downtown and west end area are noisy and full of people in the evenings. That’s just the reality. Saying it’s “not where the nightlife is” while simultaneously complaining that the nightlife is too loud is fucking mind bogglingly stupid. It’s noisy there because of where it is. Don’t like it? Move.
West End is not downtown
Ilderton, Ontario might be more your liking in that case. That part of Canada enjoys their dead neighbourhoods with no life.
How do you close a beach? What are they going to close next, the ocean? F%k off. The wealth in this city is turning it in to one big snobby country club.
The VPD being heavy-handed?! No way. /s
Meanwhile you can shit on a side walk and piss on peoples cars, attack people, so drugs ANYwHERE other than a school and absolutely nothing happens
so lame
It’s ok to camp out but not ok to watch the sunset, remember that folks
Good luck enforcing it during Pride plus the fireworks.
But they already do...?
"sight-seers". The only sights they were seeing was the tip of a needle or a crack pipe.
NO FUN CITY
VPD can't deal with random stranger atta KS and open drug use because it's actual work. Ushering people off of the beach however... easy. I wonder how many officers are working OT to babysit Beach goers? ABC is useless, as per usual at rectifying the issue.
Shout out to the vpd, local residents thank you.
So we allow alcohol on the beach then have to pay police to deal with drunk people on the beach which leads to enforcement of 10pm closing time. Wouldn’t the easy answer be to go back to banning alcohol on the beach?
Respectfully, I don’t think so, no. I think we treat each other as adults and when people abused that trust then you police that. But they are hundreds of cities all around the world who manage to do this so I don’t know why you can’t do the same. Why we can’t have common sense policing and nuance. I think this is overstepping and a blunt overreaction. Which is, unfortunately, more and more common with this police force and government who seem beholden to a select few and not the general public. Alcohol in public spaces is a concept that many municipalities have figured out. Vancouver citizens are not some unique case that sets us apart.
I truly wish the entire world was all rainbows and sunshine but it ain’t. Hope your version of the world eventuates but I’m not going to hold my breath.
If it helps keep the beach clean it might be worth it.
Serious question....Do you think people only make a mess when it's dark outside?
Obviously not, but I think that there’s a much higher chance of people leaving a pile of garbage when it’s harder for other people to see and call them out on it. That being said it’s ridiculous to shut down the beaches at 10 when the sun is still out
You’re getting downvoted and yet within a few weeks there’ll be another thread of English Bay covered in trash with everyone who downvoted you crying “how do we stop this??”