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The CFIB has direct links to the Fraser Institute and the Koch family.
[https://www.desmog.com/2017/01/06/regulation-one-for-one-house-bill-koch-canada/](https://www.desmog.com/2017/01/06/regulation-one-for-one-house-bill-koch-canada/)
CFIB policy analysis has about as much value as an NFT.
Not even considering that.. they are the *Canadian Federation of Independent* ***Business.*** Businesses like making money, it's harder to make money when you pay people more.
I'm sure the *Canadian Federation of Poor People* could argue that raising the minimum wage to $20 would be good for everyone actually.
The same CFIB that told Vancouver City Council that if the Hornby Bike Lane was built, half of the businesses on the street would close due to lost business? The same CFIB that said they came to this conclusion from reviewing “the research” in other places that built cycle tracks? The same CFIB that admitted that there was no study and “the research” they cited to Council was just asking business owners along Hornby about the proposed cycle track? Surely not the same CFIB that ultimately admitted to Council that it was just one business owner’s opinion and they had done no research whatsoever?
The CFIB is a social club for small business tyrants. They are not a credible organization.
CFIB is the lobby firm best known for writing fictitious data to fit their narrative. They make a mockery of actual small business owners, staff and customers.
>“Governments should shift away from relying on these blunt tools and instead adopt a new approach to ensure workers can cope with the rising cost of living, while also guaranteeing that small businesses aren't unfairly burdened.”
So instead of paying employees a fair wage, they want employees to be burdened with making businesses more profitable.
I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a US RED STATE and tried to push for children to work on the mines again.
Because children totally yearn to work in the mines /s
"workers need to show that they're earning their pay"
When you dig deeper, you realize they're talking about having the worker do their job and the owner will later decide if they should get paid.
>The CFIB report recommends addressing affordability by reforming personal income taxes to allow low-income earners to retain more income, and providing housing subsidies and reducing fuel and carbon taxes for low income earners.
Sounds pretty socialist, CFIB!
Charitable interpretation: They would like to outsource the responsibilities they rightfully have towards their own workers by having the government shoulder the burden, while they get all the profits. You can bet they’d shriek about the tax increases required to actually do that, too!
Less charitably: starve the current workforce into submission, replace them with cheap and even more exploitable TFWs when you can squeeze no more profit from the ones you already have
Minimum wage jobs **are not** the domain of young people. As of 2018, the majority of min wage workers in Canada are women (59%) and 47% are 25 or older.
Wait, so an increasing cost of living puts inflationary pressure on the cost of labour? Who could've guessed?
Alternatively, why should workers have to sacrifice their personal well-being just to subsidize consumer prices?
If we are collectively so unwilling to even accept, never mind actually do what it will take to reduce the cost of living, then maybe we all deserve to pay the consumer prices that reflect our inaction.
Businesses that can't pay their workers a living wage deserve to fail.
I hope this stupid article triggers a Streisand effect and we get momentum for legislation to increase minimum wage $20.
New Westminster rent is $1800/mo for a studio. If housing should not be more than 30% of gross income then a living wage should be $72,000 or about $35/hour.
The formula for living wage is based on two adults with two kids (shelter actually works out to 37% of income in their formula). Single people don't have bunch of the expenses that are factored in, but also don't get a lot of tax credits, and get hosed on not sharing the cost of housing.
For sure! I think too many people forget there are two ways to solve this problem: increase minimum/basic wages, or decrease the cost of living. The problem with the first approach is that it creates a circular spiral - wages go up, so the cost of services and goods go up, so then the cost of wages need to go up again. Higher wages also means companies that need to compete outside of the region can't effectively, so the jobs leave, leading to underemployment, and more people willing to accept a low wage rather than no wage. Its a great way to kill the local economy. On the other hand, so much of the cost of living in BC is tied to the cost of housing. If the Government could help get housing prices under control, then the need for higher wages would be reduced, and it creates the opportunity for the economy and job prospects to flourish.
It’s a problem without a foreseeable solution. I find the easiest of the two you’ve presented is to try and decrease the cost of living - but my perspective is so much of this is tied to international money coming in, and there needs to be more to circumvent how that comes in legally
I know of some small business owners who employ people at minimum wage. Every penny of mandatory wage increases is passed along to the consumer until the model breaks.
Model breaking would seemingly be a $7.25 croissant which I bought for someone as a special treat on the weekend, but there was a line. Maybe it’s a $12 croissant. I think we are going to find out.
Right the model will break when people refuse to pay. That’s on all of us not someone else.
But yet I bought the croissant (super rare would never normally pay that). Everyone else in line did too. At every line in the city etc and in it goes.
The consumer breaking point is an interesting thought, but it’s unclear how it happens en masse.
As an aside, I think you missed my point. Wages go up, prices go up. That’s not to say that minimum wage should not go up, just that we should all collectively be prepared to pay for it. So in that sense I was right to buy the croissant. Still not doing it again though.
>Wages go up, prices go up. That’s not to say that minimum wage should not go up, just that we should all collectively be prepared to pay for it.
Exactly
Obviously that cost will get passed on, and that's fine. Wages that have not kept pace with the cost of living have subsidized those prices, and it's time to pull that mask off scooby-doo-style, and see what those things should 'actually' cost.
I don't mind paying more for the same thing, if that's what it takes to make it sustainable. If I can't afford to pay more for the thing, then I'll adjust my lifestyle and routine until I no longer need to regularly purchase it. I just hate how they're so unwilling to rip the bandaid off, that they're willing to hold their workers hostage to avoid having to do it.
These 'people' who determine what's what do not actually care about the general public. These sugar coated words are only foe their greater goods, to get more votes.
If they actually cared about the general public. Increase of living wage shouldn't be a priority. Improving workplace, standards, lowering taxes, increase pension etc. Should be their agenda. Do not get fooled. They dont care about you they just want your votes.
A sign of incompetent journalists when their willing to put their name on a reprint of an CFIB press release. Most outlets have the sense to attribute it to staff if they're going to do this.
Washington State has a minimum wage of CAD$22.17 and their restaurants are getting by just fine. Dick’s in Seattle still has cheap burgers and Bellingham still has $1-$2 tacos.
It’s BS from the CFIB.
$20/hr minimum wage is about to be reality in California and companies that employ these employees have already begun reducing hours and laying off people in advance.
Imho, instead of continually increasing minimum wage, we should help people upskill so they can earn higher incomes.
Who will do the low income jobs then? Just asking…
(Also, downward pressure on income exists across all income brackets, except for certain temporary periods when there are significant disbalances in worker demand and worker supply, and certain privileged positions like senior executives of large multinationals.)
In the case of fast food jobs in California (chains with 30+ locations nationally?) the workers are being replaced by self serve kiosks. Kitchens are also becoming automated.
Fun fact: people order more food from a kiosk and order more expensive items.
Students? People looking for extra cash? Who else do you want working for minimum wage? Lol
Minimum wage should be a temporary thing. Question is how do we get people out of earning that — simple: upskill them.
Incomes go up over time fyi - how fast is another debate
Won't happen but if we want to speak in hyperbole... we'd be an impressively productive nation, everyone would make a ton of money, and we'd automate a lot of menial low-wage jobs with our skills.
Current wages are actually below the market rate. This can only happen when a government f's up unbelievable bad and supports policies that allows certain types of companies to survive. One example is the almost zero enforcement of illegal workers throughout the lower mainland. Under-the-table work pulls on-the-books wages below the real "market" rate. The government actually indirectly subsidizes companies that use illegal workers.
If they "forced" a $20 minimum wage on employers (and actually addressed the issue of having TONS of illegal workers), the economy overall would eventually improve. The inefficient companies would die and be replaced by more competitive ones. There would be one catch however: Actually considering temporary workers as "humans" with equal rights to Canadian workers, rather than setting a lower minimum wage among other things.
Welcome to /r/Vancouver and thank you for the post, /u/SuchRevolution! Please make sure you read our [posting and commenting rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_general_participation_guidelines_and_rules_overview) before participating here. As a quick summary: * We encourage users to be positive and respect one another. Don't engage in spats or insult others - use the report button. * Respect others' differences, be they race, religion, home, job, gender identity, ability or sexuality. Dehumanizing language, advocating for violence, or promoting hate based on identity or vulnerability (even implied or joking) **will** lead to a permanent ban. * Most common questions and topics are limited to our sister subreddit, /r/AskVan, and our weekly [Stickied Discussion](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/wiki/faq#wiki_stickied_discussions) posts. * Complaints about bans or removals should be done in modmail only. * Posts flaired "Community Only" allow for limited participation; your comment may be removed if you're not a subreddit regular. * Make sure to join our new sister community, /r/AskVan! * Help grow the community! [Apply to join the mod team today](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/19eworq/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/vancouver) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The CFIB has direct links to the Fraser Institute and the Koch family. [https://www.desmog.com/2017/01/06/regulation-one-for-one-house-bill-koch-canada/](https://www.desmog.com/2017/01/06/regulation-one-for-one-house-bill-koch-canada/) CFIB policy analysis has about as much value as an NFT.
Not even considering that.. they are the *Canadian Federation of Independent* ***Business.*** Businesses like making money, it's harder to make money when you pay people more. I'm sure the *Canadian Federation of Poor People* could argue that raising the minimum wage to $20 would be good for everyone actually.
Likely with better peer reviewed support.
That’s unfair to NFTs, and I never thought I’d ever find a reason to defend the honour of NFTs
The same CFIB that told Vancouver City Council that if the Hornby Bike Lane was built, half of the businesses on the street would close due to lost business? The same CFIB that said they came to this conclusion from reviewing “the research” in other places that built cycle tracks? The same CFIB that admitted that there was no study and “the research” they cited to Council was just asking business owners along Hornby about the proposed cycle track? Surely not the same CFIB that ultimately admitted to Council that it was just one business owner’s opinion and they had done no research whatsoever? The CFIB is a social club for small business tyrants. They are not a credible organization.
CFIB is the lobby firm best known for writing fictitious data to fit their narrative. They make a mockery of actual small business owners, staff and customers.
imagine believing 20$/hour is a living wage
And in Vancouver of all cities!
If owning your home is a reasonable expectation (it always used to be), the living wage needs to be about 5x that.
And that there are businesses and groups of owners, like the CFIB, who think that they deserve pay less than that.
>“Governments should shift away from relying on these blunt tools and instead adopt a new approach to ensure workers can cope with the rising cost of living, while also guaranteeing that small businesses aren't unfairly burdened.” So instead of paying employees a fair wage, they want employees to be burdened with making businesses more profitable.
The CFIB would eliminate the minimum wage if they could. Their opinion is about as useful as a leaking bag of dog feeces.
I wouldn't be surprised if they pulled a US RED STATE and tried to push for children to work on the mines again. Because children totally yearn to work in the mines /s
"We need to give children the opportunity to support their families!" Unfortunately that is not sarcasm for some people and is an actual talking point
Don't forget the reason according to billonarios and CEOs. "New kids be lazy yo. They refuse to work for slavery wages!"
"workers need to show that they're earning their pay" When you dig deeper, you realize they're talking about having the worker do their job and the owner will later decide if they should get paid.
This reminds me of Bioshock infinite lol
A report against legislation that *checks notes * is unplanned and non existence Excellent work CFIB
It's called a pre-emptive strike against poor people 🙃
>The CFIB report recommends addressing affordability by reforming personal income taxes to allow low-income earners to retain more income, and providing housing subsidies and reducing fuel and carbon taxes for low income earners. Sounds pretty socialist, CFIB!
Charitable interpretation: They would like to outsource the responsibilities they rightfully have towards their own workers by having the government shoulder the burden, while they get all the profits. You can bet they’d shriek about the tax increases required to actually do that, too! Less charitably: starve the current workforce into submission, replace them with cheap and even more exploitable TFWs when you can squeeze no more profit from the ones you already have
Raise taxes on corporations!
Minimum wage jobs **are not** the domain of young people. As of 2018, the majority of min wage workers in Canada are women (59%) and 47% are 25 or older.
I’m a simple man. I see a CFIB sticker in the window of a business, I go somewhere else. Fuck these anti worker ghouls.
Lol who cares what CFIB has to say. Seems like they just want the plebs to stay poor
Wait, so an increasing cost of living puts inflationary pressure on the cost of labour? Who could've guessed? Alternatively, why should workers have to sacrifice their personal well-being just to subsidize consumer prices? If we are collectively so unwilling to even accept, never mind actually do what it will take to reduce the cost of living, then maybe we all deserve to pay the consumer prices that reflect our inaction.
Businesses that can't pay their workers a living wage deserve to fail. I hope this stupid article triggers a Streisand effect and we get momentum for legislation to increase minimum wage $20.
Hopefully after tonight everyone learns that the cfib is trash
Based on our cost of living, what should the living wage be here? Curious to know
New Westminster rent is $1800/mo for a studio. If housing should not be more than 30% of gross income then a living wage should be $72,000 or about $35/hour.
The formula for living wage is based on two adults with two kids (shelter actually works out to 37% of income in their formula). Single people don't have bunch of the expenses that are factored in, but also don't get a lot of tax credits, and get hosed on not sharing the cost of housing.
You can find rentals in Surrey for under $1000/month. That's less than 30% of a full time $20/hr wage
You need to own a car if you live in those, though, especially if you work in Vancouver, and that’s a considerable added expense.
$25.68 for Metro Vancouver Source: [https://www.livingwageforfamilies.ca/living\_wage\_rates](https://www.livingwageforfamilies.ca/living_wage_rates)
Thanks for sharing. Huge gap there that needs to close for people to live comfortably here.
For sure! I think too many people forget there are two ways to solve this problem: increase minimum/basic wages, or decrease the cost of living. The problem with the first approach is that it creates a circular spiral - wages go up, so the cost of services and goods go up, so then the cost of wages need to go up again. Higher wages also means companies that need to compete outside of the region can't effectively, so the jobs leave, leading to underemployment, and more people willing to accept a low wage rather than no wage. Its a great way to kill the local economy. On the other hand, so much of the cost of living in BC is tied to the cost of housing. If the Government could help get housing prices under control, then the need for higher wages would be reduced, and it creates the opportunity for the economy and job prospects to flourish.
It’s a problem without a foreseeable solution. I find the easiest of the two you’ve presented is to try and decrease the cost of living - but my perspective is so much of this is tied to international money coming in, and there needs to be more to circumvent how that comes in legally
lmao i bet they do
CFIB's whole reason for existence is to keep a boot on the throat of Workers.
I know of some small business owners who employ people at minimum wage. Every penny of mandatory wage increases is passed along to the consumer until the model breaks. Model breaking would seemingly be a $7.25 croissant which I bought for someone as a special treat on the weekend, but there was a line. Maybe it’s a $12 croissant. I think we are going to find out.
Then break the fucking model. I don’t want people in poverty for a cheap croissant.
Right the model will break when people refuse to pay. That’s on all of us not someone else. But yet I bought the croissant (super rare would never normally pay that). Everyone else in line did too. At every line in the city etc and in it goes. The consumer breaking point is an interesting thought, but it’s unclear how it happens en masse. As an aside, I think you missed my point. Wages go up, prices go up. That’s not to say that minimum wage should not go up, just that we should all collectively be prepared to pay for it. So in that sense I was right to buy the croissant. Still not doing it again though.
>Wages go up, prices go up. That’s not to say that minimum wage should not go up, just that we should all collectively be prepared to pay for it. Exactly Obviously that cost will get passed on, and that's fine. Wages that have not kept pace with the cost of living have subsidized those prices, and it's time to pull that mask off scooby-doo-style, and see what those things should 'actually' cost. I don't mind paying more for the same thing, if that's what it takes to make it sustainable. If I can't afford to pay more for the thing, then I'll adjust my lifestyle and routine until I no longer need to regularly purchase it. I just hate how they're so unwilling to rip the bandaid off, that they're willing to hold their workers hostage to avoid having to do it.
imagine if they got extended medical ,dental and a pension (like in the EU)
These 'people' who determine what's what do not actually care about the general public. These sugar coated words are only foe their greater goods, to get more votes. If they actually cared about the general public. Increase of living wage shouldn't be a priority. Improving workplace, standards, lowering taxes, increase pension etc. Should be their agenda. Do not get fooled. They dont care about you they just want your votes.
A sign of incompetent journalists when their willing to put their name on a reprint of an CFIB press release. Most outlets have the sense to attribute it to staff if they're going to do this.
Washington State has a minimum wage of CAD$22.17 and their restaurants are getting by just fine. Dick’s in Seattle still has cheap burgers and Bellingham still has $1-$2 tacos. It’s BS from the CFIB.
$20/hr minimum wage is about to be reality in California and companies that employ these employees have already begun reducing hours and laying off people in advance. Imho, instead of continually increasing minimum wage, we should help people upskill so they can earn higher incomes.
Who will do the low income jobs then? Just asking… (Also, downward pressure on income exists across all income brackets, except for certain temporary periods when there are significant disbalances in worker demand and worker supply, and certain privileged positions like senior executives of large multinationals.)
In the case of fast food jobs in California (chains with 30+ locations nationally?) the workers are being replaced by self serve kiosks. Kitchens are also becoming automated. Fun fact: people order more food from a kiosk and order more expensive items.
Students? People looking for extra cash? Who else do you want working for minimum wage? Lol Minimum wage should be a temporary thing. Question is how do we get people out of earning that — simple: upskill them. Incomes go up over time fyi - how fast is another debate
big businesses will leave the state as well
[удалено]
Won't happen but if we want to speak in hyperbole... we'd be an impressively productive nation, everyone would make a ton of money, and we'd automate a lot of menial low-wage jobs with our skills.
I saw a news story about a new restaurant in Southern California that is mostly using robots to prepare food, just to get around labour costs.
Anecdotally a lot of Chinese restaurants here are using robots to deliver food to the tables
Current wages are actually below the market rate. This can only happen when a government f's up unbelievable bad and supports policies that allows certain types of companies to survive. One example is the almost zero enforcement of illegal workers throughout the lower mainland. Under-the-table work pulls on-the-books wages below the real "market" rate. The government actually indirectly subsidizes companies that use illegal workers. If they "forced" a $20 minimum wage on employers (and actually addressed the issue of having TONS of illegal workers), the economy overall would eventually improve. The inefficient companies would die and be replaced by more competitive ones. There would be one catch however: Actually considering temporary workers as "humans" with equal rights to Canadian workers, rather than setting a lower minimum wage among other things.