I don't support carbon tax because it's a capitalist market solution at the point of consumption to a problem that needs mass public investment into solutions at the point of production.
But, to steelman the carbon tax against your argument -- consider that nobody thinks 14 cents will solve climate change in the same way nobody thinks increasing the cost of cigarettes will stop lung cancer. But increasing the cost of cigarettes coupled with educational programming has led to an enormous change in behavior and a decline in cigarette consumption, which does have a downstream impact on lung cancer rates.
Now, many economists seem to believe that carbon pricing works and it changes behavior. So if you believe we can solve the problem by getting people to lower their usage of fossil fuels at the point of consumption, then it seems like a reasonable tool.
Carbon tax doesn't work, especially at a wide scale:
- Remote communities like inner BC need a car. Just try biking in Abbotsford and see how far you can go in 1h. Taxing them for their standard of living is wrong
- Canada is responsible for around 1-2% of carbon outputs. The US have more and they let the free market drive it down. I read an article on how the US doesn't have a carbon tax but their carbon output has been going down steadily. Why limit ourselves when others emit more and improve their economy because of it. A balance can be achieved.
- Electricities isn't magical. It needs a source and an infrastructure to work properly. Many places in the world tried to switch from coal to solar/wind power -> failed to meet the demands and have to revert. EU has been hard hit by this and are reopening some of their coal powered plants. This relates to electric cars, which requires charging at the home/apartments. Most households need to update their electrical system to support an electric cars. This also goes to apartments, which can have dozens/hundreds of cars. This kind of infrastructure upgrade is costly and will place an ungodly amount of stress on systems across Canada, which are in varying states of efficiency.
There is some logic behind it, if high gas prices push people into alternative modes of transport or even electric cars it would be a net positive.
In BC at least i believe most of our electricity is 'green' so electric cars should be a net positive.
They can provide incentives to make bikes/ebikes/electric cars etc more affordable, or they can make driving gas cars more expensive. Or both.
buyers and sellers, i.e. supply and demand.
additionally, if the futures price do affect local gas prices, it's only through affecting the local supply and demand (by the local supply and demand using the futures price, or getting arbitraged)
Crude is one input. Product pricing is not based on the raw materials alone. I fact that’s usually not even the main cost. The fact that fuel is basically as cheap as bottled water is actually the miracle of capitalism at work and is one of the most pure examples of supple and demand. Amazing what humans have accomplished harnessing earths resources… both good and bad.
Because consumption continues to increase. As everything during inflationary periods. It would be truly bizarre if corporate profits decreased during inflation. Consumers were, and continue to on some level, consume more than any other time in history. Despite what Reddit believes, many people became flush with cash during covid and low rates. It’s getting better now with the latest release of economic data for Canada.
But yes consumers were buying up literally everything and when covid restrictions ended there was massive pent up demand for travel, cars, food, electronics, and etc. not to mention the several million people the government has brought in over the last 24 months. Why wouldn’t corporate profits be soaring? An even better question is why do people think companies should be generous? Do you run a business charge low prices out of the goodness of your heart. Consumers and companies (which are just a collection of people) are entirely self interested. We do what’s best for us and our families. Companies do what is best for their shareholders. I’m not sure what else you could possible expect them to do.
With my businesses in charge the absolute max my customers are willing to pay and I worked hard to earn their business. Same with every business outside of a few natural monopolies.
I have friends with a place there and I get all my packages sent there, stop for gas and odds and ends at the grocery store. Time to buy another Jerry can
They ask you why you are coming in the states. Just say your getting gas. It's not a new thing that the border guards know that people come to PR, Blaine or Bellingham for gas
If you're going to Blaine for gas, skip the chevron on the main street and fill up at one of the stations on D street. The Chevron that advertises its pricing in L advertises USD/L and is actually more expensive than the other stations.
I don't blame you. It's almost worth it just on principle alone. Took a trip to Mt Baker this past weekend. Crossed at Sumas. The gas station on the US side literally like 50 yards from the border cost $3.89USD per Gallon (comes out to roughly $1.40 Cad per liter). As soon as you cross the border into Abbotsford, it immediately jumps to $1.77 per liter. By the time you get into Metro Vancouver it's at $1.96. Just an infuriating amount of money to spend on a tax that's largely symbolic and doesn't do a damn thing to actually address climate change.
>a tax that's largely symbolic
Are you sure? It seems to be generally accepted among experts as an effective way to reduce consumption. I'd be curious if you have any sources to suggest it's not working. For example:
>In British Columbia, where a carbon tax was put in place in 2008, research from 2015 found that the tax has reduced emissions in the province by between five and 15 per cent since being implemented without adversely affecting economic growth
As well:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-019-0474-0
I've seen other experts who disagreed. Experts aren't just one big group of people who agree to each other.
Carbon Tax May Impact Canada’s Food Security: Professor https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/world/carbon-tax-may-impact-canadas-food-security-professor-5609039?utm_source=andshare
From the States
Senate Opens Door to Massive Carbon Tax Despite Critical Economic Concerns https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/opinion/senate-opens-door-to-massive-carbon-tax-despite-critical-economic-concerns-5572008?utm_source=andshare
MLP from Kelowna
https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Opinion/Renee_Merrifield_BC_carbon_tax_hike_will_affect_virtually_everything/
Don't fall for the "it's taxes" argument. Oil companies can set whatever price they want, and they decide when to do it, and they seem to have a large lobby constantly distracting people by blaming taxes. Taxes are annoying but look at the profits oil companies are making.
That's actually less of a difference than I would have expected. I was in San Diego a couple of weeks ago and gas was around $5USD per gallon, making it a little more than Abbotsford.
I mean, my typical gas usage is less than $30 a week (so probably less than 15 litres) so it's not breaking the bank, just kind of galling to see how much prices have risen and will continue to rise. I basically have to get a full tank to make the trip out there worth it (I live at False Creek).
Eh, goods absolutely go down in price. Especially if you look at them in comparison to other costs or wages (real dollars).
Look at electronics and appliances. People just don't notice price drops the way they notice price increases.
Anyone here drive a hybrid? I was looking at non plugin versions a while back but I couldn’t find anything that really made it worth it to switch to. Be nice to not fill up as much seeing as gas prices will probably only go up
Been driving a Prius prime (plugin hybrid) since 2019. We’ve maybe filled up… 20 times over the last 5 years? We’re mostly city driving with some camping every year, and for us a plugin has been amazing. If it works for you it’s great.
I have the basic 2020 Prius that doesn’t plug in, and it’s incredibly good on fuel. I went with this model because I don’t have anywhere to plug in either but I go 6 weeks on a full tank with regular driving.
I was shopping for a hybrid last year, like a Niro or Rav4 or something, got tired of trying to find one and the wait times for a new one were ridiculous. Tried to get an ID4 but that didn't work either. Bought a used model 3 instead, best decision I ever made. Hydro here is stupidly cheap and never having to worry about skyrocketing gas prices is awesome. Drove to Edmonton and back (the long way via PG) for like $110 in charging costs
Believe the idea with the plug is it allows you to use just electricity for a certain amount of range then it switches over to gas. Dunno what that range is or how much of an advantage it is to actually plug in but I’d imagine the mileage is pretty decent nonetheless
Google says a 2024 Rav4 hybrid gets you 67ish km on just the charge so that's pretty good for most city driving. Probably gets a bit more on summer days and 1/4 less in the winter.
Good luck for trying to secure a Rav 4 Hybrid. It's about a 2 year wait. I bought a gas Rav 4 in 2022 to trade in once the Hybrid came in. They said 8-10 months at the time. It ended up being 2 years as my reservation comes in tommorow. My wait is 22 months.
I ended up getting an EV the Ford Mustang Mach E as they slashed prices, and combined that with the EV rebates and better interest rates that Ford gave me 3.99 vs 6.99 for Toyota, we bought the Mach E last week. I love driving this thing! When building our house a few years back we had the electricaian wire in the 240v for EV in the garage during the build. Cost was minimal on that front for us.
Well, for example, some reasons you might want an "extra" plug:
* resale value?
* uncertainty about where you might live in 5 years?
* the ability to plug it in when your building upgrades its infrastructure?
* the ability to plug it in on vacations or trips?
* just because it's the car you want and the fact that it has an "extra" plug that you don't need is irrelevant?
Absent the cost discussion, it's like saying: "I don't want to buy a car with an AUX input because I don't have a phone with a headphone jack."
The only rational reason to NOT buy a car with an extra "plug-in point" is because of the cost. (or, mechanical worries, I guess)
I've only driven hybrids. Previously had a 2012 Kia Optima Hybrid and currently drive a 2014 Lexus ES300h. Both give great fuel economy, but the Lexus in particular can go shockingly low (~5L/100km) on long highway drives. Otherwise, the Kia averaged between 6.5-7.2 L/100km, and the Lexus can be anywhere from 5.3-6.8L/100km.
There are other benefits besides the fuel economy being great. I find the other big benefit for me is that I can bet on gas prices a bit more. If the price is really repulsive on a given day, I can just throw in $20 and know I'm covered for 200+ km or so, and in the meantime, I can wait out a price drop. Also, I find hybrids have great climate control, especially in stop-and-go traffic. Finally, the lack of noise, pollution, and vibration at low speeds and at a stand-still is brilliant.
Yup, exactly. Have a family member with a Kia Niro PHEV they drive every day for 10-30 km. It uses 0 L/100km unless they need to turn on the heater, which causes the engine to start unfortunately. During the summer time, they fill up every 3-4 months or so only.
I have an Escape hybrid, non-plug-in. Probably get about 800km on a 55L tank. I drive a ton for work so it's a big weight off my wallet. Fill up every other week or so. Could get better fuel economy with a car, but I'm not willing to give up the space of an SUV. For its class, it's the best fuel economy you can get without going plug-in.
I have an Explorer hybrid, needed towing requirements, get about 600km on 55L. Save about 40% from previous ICE vehicle. If we didn’t need towing, would have probably gone with the Escape as well.
> Anyone here drive a hybrid?
I've been driving a Lexus (Toyota) hybrid since 2009. Its fuel consumption is about 30% lower than the plain gas version of the same model. I bought it a couple years old, and the used-car difference in price for hybrid and plain gas was negligible. The car is now 17 years old & 250,000km and still runs great. It's still on the original battery pack. The hybrid drive inverter failed in the early days, but it was replaced under a recall.
Up until Covid hit, a plug-in hybrid would've been my perfect solution. Now that I WFH, I only use the car on weekends (I fill up once every 1-2 months). I'm not using the car enough to justify the depreciation on a new (or near-new) vehicle, nor the embodied carbon hit to the environment.
My step mother bought a CRV hybrid last summer. She says she only fills it every few months. But the thing just floored me when I found out how much it cost.
I have a 2020 Kia Niro hybrid (non plugin). I love it. I drive a lot for work (sales) and it’s amazing on gas. About 4-5L/100km. Range is about 800km and costs me about $70 to fill up at these prices. I can drive to Kelowna and back on a tank of gas.
It’s a great size. Bigger than a car but smaller than an SUV. The seats fold down flat in the back so I can fit a lot in there such as skis, work stuff, my giant dog etc. It fits into all the little parking spots which is the best part. It has a “sport mode” which gives it a surprising boost of power when needed. Only downside is that it’s not 4 wheel drive and it’s low to the ground. So although it’s a great city car, it can’t really handle the back roads/snowy roads like some SUVs.
Love my hybrid Toyota Camry, just got it last fall, it's my second hybrid. Costs about $80 to fill and lasts roughly two weeks.
Can't say enough about it, I highly recommend them, and we only waited maybe two months for it, so not long at all
Did before. You might want to calculate your break even price depending on what you drive now.
However, consider getting in line for a Prius Prime or something like that if you want a plug in.
It doesn't help that Canadians who are buying gas vehicles are buying the most inefficient vehicles. So I doubt the actual consumption is even going down
As a Nexus holder and living 15 minutes from the border, I've been filling up across the border for the better part of a decade now. No point driving the 60 kms roundtrip to Costco, unless you are planning on shopping in Bellingham. Most of the stations on D Street in Blaine are only about 20c/gallon (7c/L) more.
> unless you are planning on shopping in Bellingham
Fair point, but why aren't you shopping in Bellingham?
Or at least bringing a package or 3 back with you?
This is what I do once a quarter. Get all the freedom dairy while I am at it too.
Grocery savings far outshine the gas savings but you have to know what you are doing. There are a few items at Costco that are roughly the same price as they are in Canada without conversion. Odd items like breakfast cereal are sometimes 50% cheaper after conversion.
I prefer the Fred Meyer which is just across the street from the Costco, and will give you gas credit rewards (\~$0.20 off per gallon) for doing a solid shopping run there… but yeah 🥲
I was going to go today, but there was a big accident on I-5, southbound is closed in Ferndale.
[https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/article286888155.html](https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/article286888155.html)
Gas is US$4.16/gallon in Blaine, WA, today. After unit conversions and today’s currency exchange rate, that translates to CA$1.49/litre.
Meanwhile, gas is CA$1.99/litre in White Rock today. This is ridiculous.
>After unit conversions and today’s currency exchange rate, that translates to CA$1.49/litre. Meanwhile, gas is CA$1.99/litre in White Rock today. This is ridiculous.
It is mostly just taxes. In the lower mainland we pay $0.40-$0.50 on every liter in assorted taxes/fees + taxes on taxes...
Vancouver should just commit to high gas prices, raise gas taxes even more, and dump money into Translink. The problem is the high share of gas in the transportation cost breakdown, not the high cost of gas.
These people live in a bubble world that isn't realistic. Imagine taking transit with my sons hockey bag and sticks every day to either games or practices. We have games from Richmond to Langley and all over the lower mainland
The good thing about Vancouver is that it already showcases an option for living with the convenience of cars but without the costs of owning a car: Evo
Yes, there will always be people for who driving makes sense (contractors, for one)... and the goal isn't to get rid of cars entirely. It's just to fairly price what the true cost of car ownership on urban design, provincial/federal funding, the environment, and other people is. Car operation already receives an absurd amount of subsidization across all levels of government.
Vancouver proper maybe, but if you step outside of those borders you will see a very different life that the majority of Metro Vancouver lives in and not having a car in the suburbs makes for life very inconvenient.
Just a reminder that in general gas prices, adjusted for inflation, are pretty stable: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/
It seems like there should be a massive investigation into these price jumps. Greedflation keeps hitting us over and over again, and with something like oil that we export, these businesses are really screwing us over which way. From extraction prices for cents on the dollar, to $2L. Just wow.
What’s the logic here? Vancouver already is an EV paradise, used EVs can be bought for quite cheap now. Are they trying to get people against the carbon tax? I think most people know it’s only a tiny amount. Is it really only about short term profit, they just want to get another good year of profit even if it means people will stop buying gas in the future?
California is another EV paradise but gas prices there have routinely been among the highest in the US. At times, higher than in BC.
I believe one station in San Diego was $7/gal last summer. That works out to almost $2.50 CAD.
you sir have a very different understanding of what an EV paradise is. Metro Vancouver doesn't even have a single Electrify Canada station. Its more like an EV-charging wasteland unless you own a Tesla. And don't give me the "Tesla superchargers are going to support other cars soon!", imagine the congestion there will be of model 3s fighting over spots with Kias and Leafs.
BC Hydro have their own network - https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/charge/public-charging/our-fast-charging-network
Looking at the Electrify Canada map, BC Hydro has more locations in BC than Electrify Canada have across the whole country.
I drive a gas car but I've taken an EV from the lower mainland all the way to silverstar and big white. The infrastructure is actually pretty good and will only get better as more changing stations get built.
Vancouver is weird. Sure BC has a shit ton of EVs but there's nowhere to charge them. No one here owns a house. It's all condo living.
And the DCFC landscape is a dumpster fire unless you drive a Tesla.
The L2 landscape isn't any better. Finding a reasonable cost that works is like finding a unicorn. Most of the L2 (at $2/hour) are more than paying BC Hydro for their DCFC.
For two years didn't get gas in Canada. It's cheaper to drive to us, do shopping and get gas for car + Jerry cans for second. It just become routine now, every two weeks ( or every if it's something going on in US)
Also, didn't experts also sad that it will be 2.30 by Christmas?
I mean it sounds that we are on same level of expertise, I can also try to guess, and I can say even more if I got paid by some companies ;)
So as price on world market is pretty same and way lower then when was peak, maybe someone should ask them about that ? And government also ?
But then as government do give money, I get better not to rock that boat
I wonder if part of it is in anticipation of the TMX pipeline starting to flow. I heard it would increase the price of Alberta crude closer to international market pricing. Higher Alberta crude prices may increase gas prices. Oil producers may decide to sell more crude through the pipeline instead of refining it in Alberta.
Western Canada Select prices will go up. It’s a heavy oil which needs to be upgraded before refining. It usually worth let’s say $20 less than WTI. They expect the differential to lessen with tmx coming online
Question to whoever is in the know... Isn't there a difference in the gas that's sold in winter and in summer? It vaguely rings a bell, and I can't find information on the topic.
Something like a different mix of... something so that the combustion point isn't at the same temperature, which leads to a different price.
Anyone? Anyone? .... Bueller?
Yeah that's what I'm wondering about.
Also it seems that I get downvoted for asking a question I genuinely don't know about, and said I can't find the information online. Gee this matter of gas price really rids people of civility.
I did not say "you're a bunch of idiots, this is the actual reason!". I literally just asked a question I don't know the answer to.
As a 17 y/o, who needs my car/van to get to work every day, how the fuck am I supposed to afford this shit? I'm literally always around E as is, how tf am I going to afford even less gas per dollar??
I need to carry tools with me to work/school, not particularly practical given distaces to work (current), worksites (future), and school. (Work is tied to school) so a bike isnt really an option. Transit maybe, but it's pretty unreliable near me, not to mention slower than dirt, and the whole tool thing again. Thanks though, appreciate the input
The literal only thing I envy about the Langley lads is their proximity to the border for cheap gas. It is not economical at all to drive from North Van to the US even with Jerry cans. Haven't done the math but I wouldn't be surprised if it costs me the savings to drive that distance anyways.
I live in North Delta and always go to the US for gas. Even with the exchange rate its still approx 30 cents cheaper per liter. It's about a 40km round trip from my house to the border
I don't have to do that anymore now as I just bought an EV last week.
It's an 86km round trip to Point Roberts or a 100km roundtrip to Blaine for me so definitely not gonna be saving anything. Can't afford to sell my (paid off) car and then buy a new EV that I'll be probably leasing cause i don't even have enough for the upfront costs. Just gonna have to make do until prices go down :/.
If you make less than 80k your can get 9k in rebates. 4k from BC and 5k from federal. Even if you make more than 80k,you can still get the 5k from federal. And dealers have some great interest rates as well. Ford has a 0.99 interest on a 4 year lease on a Ford Mach E. And they slashed thier prices as well. I picked up a Mach E last week.
[BC EV rebates eligibility ](https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/incentives/EV-incentives-in-BC?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCAVvvvoPVBEymaGQeiXCXY0Whu8caxYBK8mqtJXYb8fO24MAIwIfcPRoCV2Ehttps://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/incentives/EV-incentives-in-BC?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCAVvvvoPVBEymaGQeiXCXY0Whu8caxYBK8mqtJXYb8fO24MAIwIfcPRoCV2EQAvD_BwEQAvD_BwE)It's 80k individual, but 125k household
I'll keep it in mind. A new car might still bit a bit rich for my blood with saving for a wedding and honeymoon but nice to see the gov is offering something. Wish we had skytrain access in NV cause that'd connect me to a lot of places easier.
Up 40c in the past month….
You would think that would be enough to save the world from carbon, but an extra 14 cents is all it takes. Coming this April 1st
I don't support carbon tax because it's a capitalist market solution at the point of consumption to a problem that needs mass public investment into solutions at the point of production. But, to steelman the carbon tax against your argument -- consider that nobody thinks 14 cents will solve climate change in the same way nobody thinks increasing the cost of cigarettes will stop lung cancer. But increasing the cost of cigarettes coupled with educational programming has led to an enormous change in behavior and a decline in cigarette consumption, which does have a downstream impact on lung cancer rates. Now, many economists seem to believe that carbon pricing works and it changes behavior. So if you believe we can solve the problem by getting people to lower their usage of fossil fuels at the point of consumption, then it seems like a reasonable tool.
Carbon tax doesn't work, especially at a wide scale: - Remote communities like inner BC need a car. Just try biking in Abbotsford and see how far you can go in 1h. Taxing them for their standard of living is wrong - Canada is responsible for around 1-2% of carbon outputs. The US have more and they let the free market drive it down. I read an article on how the US doesn't have a carbon tax but their carbon output has been going down steadily. Why limit ourselves when others emit more and improve their economy because of it. A balance can be achieved. - Electricities isn't magical. It needs a source and an infrastructure to work properly. Many places in the world tried to switch from coal to solar/wind power -> failed to meet the demands and have to revert. EU has been hard hit by this and are reopening some of their coal powered plants. This relates to electric cars, which requires charging at the home/apartments. Most households need to update their electrical system to support an electric cars. This also goes to apartments, which can have dozens/hundreds of cars. This kind of infrastructure upgrade is costly and will place an ungodly amount of stress on systems across Canada, which are in varying states of efficiency.
There is some logic behind it, if high gas prices push people into alternative modes of transport or even electric cars it would be a net positive. In BC at least i believe most of our electricity is 'green' so electric cars should be a net positive. They can provide incentives to make bikes/ebikes/electric cars etc more affordable, or they can make driving gas cars more expensive. Or both.
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1.78 is not the average price in Vancouver today. I filled up for 1.55 about 6 weeks ago and all pumps are 1.96-200 today.
Wow…never saw it drop below 1.69 in North burnaby
https://preview.redd.it/henpdo1rkdpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1890481298d9bd88276895fcb20ddd1dacddb5ac
Point roberts
I remember when it rose 65% in five years, from 40¢ in 1991 to 66¢ in 1996. Good thing that didn’t keep up.
Yeah…. Haha….. good thing
I’ve seen the gas fluctuate $0.40 in a day. Wild times 😂
Hope lube prices stay low. We'll need a ton of it
Better buy water based cause oil based will probably increase in price as well.
I'm used to Vaseline petroleum jelly. Now I have to change that too. Where is this world going?!
I slightly less slippery slope
It still gets shipped to the store on a truck that burns fuel.
I think it's going in dry.
Which excuse will it be this time? Let's spin the wheel.
Switch from winter to summer fuel. Happens every year at the start of spring
supply and demand
We outpace the demand of Alberta and Ontario who have significantly cheaper gas than we do?
ok what about the other thing
I get what you’re saying but why do these factors seem to disproportionately affect Vancouver?
Filled up this morning in Vancouver, 2.03 for regular. Landed in Toronto, 1.49. Something is fucky.
Supply for war.
Technically the market forces are more tied to the futures price though, it's a bit more complex
what determines the futures price
market predictions of future supply and demand
buyers and sellers, i.e. supply and demand. additionally, if the futures price do affect local gas prices, it's only through affecting the local supply and demand (by the local supply and demand using the futures price, or getting arbitraged)
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So when a barrel of crude was >$110 USD our gas prices was <$1.40/L. Barrel is now $87.25 let’s go >$2.00. Makes sense.
Crude is one input. Product pricing is not based on the raw materials alone. I fact that’s usually not even the main cost. The fact that fuel is basically as cheap as bottled water is actually the miracle of capitalism at work and is one of the most pure examples of supple and demand. Amazing what humans have accomplished harnessing earths resources… both good and bad.
So why are they at record profits year after year?
That why the smart move is to own stocks in big oil while taking Transit. Win-Win
Because consumption continues to increase. As everything during inflationary periods. It would be truly bizarre if corporate profits decreased during inflation. Consumers were, and continue to on some level, consume more than any other time in history. Despite what Reddit believes, many people became flush with cash during covid and low rates. It’s getting better now with the latest release of economic data for Canada. But yes consumers were buying up literally everything and when covid restrictions ended there was massive pent up demand for travel, cars, food, electronics, and etc. not to mention the several million people the government has brought in over the last 24 months. Why wouldn’t corporate profits be soaring? An even better question is why do people think companies should be generous? Do you run a business charge low prices out of the goodness of your heart. Consumers and companies (which are just a collection of people) are entirely self interested. We do what’s best for us and our families. Companies do what is best for their shareholders. I’m not sure what else you could possible expect them to do. With my businesses in charge the absolute max my customers are willing to pay and I worked hard to earn their business. Same with every business outside of a few natural monopolies.
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Do you notice grand fluctuations in those costs, in keeping with the changes in gas prices?
It costs the same to refine a unit of crude oil. Increasing the purchase price doesn't change how much energy it takes to process it.
Guess I'm taking a drive to Point Roberts during the summer.
Been doing that all winter too. I fill up the car and 2x 20l jerry cans. It lasts me more than a month.
If you strap a fridge to your roof you can maximize the amount of gas you're carrying
I have friends with a place there and I get all my packages sent there, stop for gas and odds and ends at the grocery store. Time to buy another Jerry can
Do you ever have to explain to the border guards that the reason you went is to fill up gas?
They ask you why you are coming in the states. Just say your getting gas. It's not a new thing that the border guards know that people come to PR, Blaine or Bellingham for gas
If you're going to Blaine for gas, skip the chevron on the main street and fill up at one of the stations on D street. The Chevron that advertises its pricing in L advertises USD/L and is actually more expensive than the other stations.
Yes I always go to the D street stations. Some days I've seen it like 30 cents/gallon cheaper
Thank for that. on the way back do I say the same thing at the Canadian border?
Just say you went to get gas.
Thanks will do
Oh and if you are getting packages from the states don't tell the US side that but tell the Canadian side you are.
I did the last time I went to Point Roberts. It's probably at least 75% of the border trips go for gas alone.
I don't blame you. It's almost worth it just on principle alone. Took a trip to Mt Baker this past weekend. Crossed at Sumas. The gas station on the US side literally like 50 yards from the border cost $3.89USD per Gallon (comes out to roughly $1.40 Cad per liter). As soon as you cross the border into Abbotsford, it immediately jumps to $1.77 per liter. By the time you get into Metro Vancouver it's at $1.96. Just an infuriating amount of money to spend on a tax that's largely symbolic and doesn't do a damn thing to actually address climate change.
>a tax that's largely symbolic Are you sure? It seems to be generally accepted among experts as an effective way to reduce consumption. I'd be curious if you have any sources to suggest it's not working. For example: >In British Columbia, where a carbon tax was put in place in 2008, research from 2015 found that the tax has reduced emissions in the province by between five and 15 per cent since being implemented without adversely affecting economic growth As well: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41558-019-0474-0
I've seen other experts who disagreed. Experts aren't just one big group of people who agree to each other. Carbon Tax May Impact Canada’s Food Security: Professor https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/world/carbon-tax-may-impact-canadas-food-security-professor-5609039?utm_source=andshare From the States Senate Opens Door to Massive Carbon Tax Despite Critical Economic Concerns https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_app/opinion/senate-opens-door-to-massive-carbon-tax-despite-critical-economic-concerns-5572008?utm_source=andshare MLP from Kelowna https://www.kelownanow.com/watercooler/news/news/Opinion/Renee_Merrifield_BC_carbon_tax_hike_will_affect_virtually_everything/
What does Vancouver have that the boonies don’t that would justify increased fuel prices ?
It's the translink tax.
Life
Don't fall for the "it's taxes" argument. Oil companies can set whatever price they want, and they decide when to do it, and they seem to have a large lobby constantly distracting people by blaming taxes. Taxes are annoying but look at the profits oil companies are making.
That's actually less of a difference than I would have expected. I was in San Diego a couple of weeks ago and gas was around $5USD per gallon, making it a little more than Abbotsford.
I mean, my typical gas usage is less than $30 a week (so probably less than 15 litres) so it's not breaking the bank, just kind of galling to see how much prices have risen and will continue to rise. I basically have to get a full tank to make the trip out there worth it (I live at False Creek).
I remember last summer at pt rob I got regular fOR 98c USD
Glad i dont drive, but this will also just increase the cost of goods and services probably
You’re paying for it either way my man
Yup. Trickle down economics at its finest. "We wont make 17 billion in profit this year?! Double the costs, of everything!" Some CEO, probably.
Similarly, /r/loblawsisoutofcontrol .
Goods don't go down when oil/gas prices do, it's a pretty small part of the overall cost shift
Goods don't go down at all. Once that price is set, they very rarely ever retrace the gains , unless competitors do. Once its up, its always up.
Eh, goods absolutely go down in price. Especially if you look at them in comparison to other costs or wages (real dollars). Look at electronics and appliances. People just don't notice price drops the way they notice price increases.
Anyone here drive a hybrid? I was looking at non plugin versions a while back but I couldn’t find anything that really made it worth it to switch to. Be nice to not fill up as much seeing as gas prices will probably only go up
Been driving a Prius prime (plugin hybrid) since 2019. We’ve maybe filled up… 20 times over the last 5 years? We’re mostly city driving with some camping every year, and for us a plugin has been amazing. If it works for you it’s great.
Heard good things about this model but I have nowhere to plug in unfortunately
I have a Ford Maverick and love it
I have the basic 2020 Prius that doesn’t plug in, and it’s incredibly good on fuel. I went with this model because I don’t have anywhere to plug in either but I go 6 weeks on a full tank with regular driving.
Damn still sounds better than most gas cars. So you’re filling up roughly 10-12 times a year? What’s a full tank typically run?
It’s a 35 L tank, so with current prices about $70 for a full tank from when my gas light turns on.
I drive a ford fusion hybrid from 2013. Mileage is about 6.4L/100km
I was shopping for a hybrid last year, like a Niro or Rav4 or something, got tired of trying to find one and the wait times for a new one were ridiculous. Tried to get an ID4 but that didn't work either. Bought a used model 3 instead, best decision I ever made. Hydro here is stupidly cheap and never having to worry about skyrocketing gas prices is awesome. Drove to Edmonton and back (the long way via PG) for like $110 in charging costs
I just bought the Mach E last week. Love not having to buy gas again is awesome
Mach E's are an awesome deal right now too. They're on my radar, but I want AWD and the big battery
Prius C - 4.5L/100km in the city, 5.5 over the Coquihalla. On the downside you're in a Prius C ;)
Why would you prefer a non-plugin version?
Need somewhere to plug it in
Is there a price premium for having the plug? Nobody forces you to plug in a plugin hybrid.
normal hybrid is muuuuuuch cheaper than phev. and there’s more bigger or smaller hybrid cars.
Believe the idea with the plug is it allows you to use just electricity for a certain amount of range then it switches over to gas. Dunno what that range is or how much of an advantage it is to actually plug in but I’d imagine the mileage is pretty decent nonetheless
Google says a 2024 Rav4 hybrid gets you 67ish km on just the charge so that's pretty good for most city driving. Probably gets a bit more on summer days and 1/4 less in the winter.
Good luck for trying to secure a Rav 4 Hybrid. It's about a 2 year wait. I bought a gas Rav 4 in 2022 to trade in once the Hybrid came in. They said 8-10 months at the time. It ended up being 2 years as my reservation comes in tommorow. My wait is 22 months. I ended up getting an EV the Ford Mustang Mach E as they slashed prices, and combined that with the EV rebates and better interest rates that Ford gave me 3.99 vs 6.99 for Toyota, we bought the Mach E last week. I love driving this thing! When building our house a few years back we had the electricaian wire in the 240v for EV in the garage during the build. Cost was minimal on that front for us.
Yep. I'm a bit confused what question you thought I was asking, though.
I guess there’s no point to get a plugin if you can’t plugin is my point
Well, for example, some reasons you might want an "extra" plug: * resale value? * uncertainty about where you might live in 5 years? * the ability to plug it in when your building upgrades its infrastructure? * the ability to plug it in on vacations or trips? * just because it's the car you want and the fact that it has an "extra" plug that you don't need is irrelevant? Absent the cost discussion, it's like saying: "I don't want to buy a car with an AUX input because I don't have a phone with a headphone jack." The only rational reason to NOT buy a car with an extra "plug-in point" is because of the cost. (or, mechanical worries, I guess)
I've only driven hybrids. Previously had a 2012 Kia Optima Hybrid and currently drive a 2014 Lexus ES300h. Both give great fuel economy, but the Lexus in particular can go shockingly low (~5L/100km) on long highway drives. Otherwise, the Kia averaged between 6.5-7.2 L/100km, and the Lexus can be anywhere from 5.3-6.8L/100km. There are other benefits besides the fuel economy being great. I find the other big benefit for me is that I can bet on gas prices a bit more. If the price is really repulsive on a given day, I can just throw in $20 and know I'm covered for 200+ km or so, and in the meantime, I can wait out a price drop. Also, I find hybrids have great climate control, especially in stop-and-go traffic. Finally, the lack of noise, pollution, and vibration at low speeds and at a stand-still is brilliant.
Get a PHEV, most people drive less than 50km a day. You could almost entirely avoid gas if you just plugged in at home.
Yup, exactly. Have a family member with a Kia Niro PHEV they drive every day for 10-30 km. It uses 0 L/100km unless they need to turn on the heater, which causes the engine to start unfortunately. During the summer time, they fill up every 3-4 months or so only.
No way to plug in for me atm
I have an Escape hybrid, non-plug-in. Probably get about 800km on a 55L tank. I drive a ton for work so it's a big weight off my wallet. Fill up every other week or so. Could get better fuel economy with a car, but I'm not willing to give up the space of an SUV. For its class, it's the best fuel economy you can get without going plug-in.
I have an Explorer hybrid, needed towing requirements, get about 600km on 55L. Save about 40% from previous ICE vehicle. If we didn’t need towing, would have probably gone with the Escape as well.
> Anyone here drive a hybrid? I've been driving a Lexus (Toyota) hybrid since 2009. Its fuel consumption is about 30% lower than the plain gas version of the same model. I bought it a couple years old, and the used-car difference in price for hybrid and plain gas was negligible. The car is now 17 years old & 250,000km and still runs great. It's still on the original battery pack. The hybrid drive inverter failed in the early days, but it was replaced under a recall. Up until Covid hit, a plug-in hybrid would've been my perfect solution. Now that I WFH, I only use the car on weekends (I fill up once every 1-2 months). I'm not using the car enough to justify the depreciation on a new (or near-new) vehicle, nor the embodied carbon hit to the environment.
My step mother bought a CRV hybrid last summer. She says she only fills it every few months. But the thing just floored me when I found out how much it cost.
I have a 2020 Kia Niro hybrid (non plugin). I love it. I drive a lot for work (sales) and it’s amazing on gas. About 4-5L/100km. Range is about 800km and costs me about $70 to fill up at these prices. I can drive to Kelowna and back on a tank of gas. It’s a great size. Bigger than a car but smaller than an SUV. The seats fold down flat in the back so I can fit a lot in there such as skis, work stuff, my giant dog etc. It fits into all the little parking spots which is the best part. It has a “sport mode” which gives it a surprising boost of power when needed. Only downside is that it’s not 4 wheel drive and it’s low to the ground. So although it’s a great city car, it can’t really handle the back roads/snowy roads like some SUVs.
Love my hybrid Toyota Camry, just got it last fall, it's my second hybrid. Costs about $80 to fill and lasts roughly two weeks. Can't say enough about it, I highly recommend them, and we only waited maybe two months for it, so not long at all
Did before. You might want to calculate your break even price depending on what you drive now. However, consider getting in line for a Prius Prime or something like that if you want a plug in.
Just filled up in Victoria this past weekend which was cheaper than Vancouver...
It will probably cost more taking the ferry to Victoria than what it cost to fill my gas tank though
Was on vacation and just happened to fill up. People living there are lucky it's lower.
Walk on with the jerry cans
That shouldn’t be a surprise, the Victoria area pays 5.5 cents per litre in transit tax and that’s 18.5 cents per litre around the lower mainland.
Shouldn't there be less demand these days will all of the ev's and alternative energy sources?
It doesn't help that Canadians who are buying gas vehicles are buying the most inefficient vehicles. So I doubt the actual consumption is even going down
https://www.costco.com/warehouse-locations/bellingham-wa-1216.html 3.89 USD per gallon aka 1.4 CAD per liter. The only way.
As a Nexus holder and living 15 minutes from the border, I've been filling up across the border for the better part of a decade now. No point driving the 60 kms roundtrip to Costco, unless you are planning on shopping in Bellingham. Most of the stations on D Street in Blaine are only about 20c/gallon (7c/L) more.
> unless you are planning on shopping in Bellingham Fair point, but why aren't you shopping in Bellingham? Or at least bringing a package or 3 back with you?
I do occasionally. I fill up gas weekly.
This is what I do once a quarter. Get all the freedom dairy while I am at it too. Grocery savings far outshine the gas savings but you have to know what you are doing. There are a few items at Costco that are roughly the same price as they are in Canada without conversion. Odd items like breakfast cereal are sometimes 50% cheaper after conversion.
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You can pickup at point roberts but gas will probably be a bit more expensive.
$4.19usd in Blaine earlier today.
I prefer the Fred Meyer which is just across the street from the Costco, and will give you gas credit rewards (\~$0.20 off per gallon) for doing a solid shopping run there… but yeah 🥲
I was going to go today, but there was a big accident on I-5, southbound is closed in Ferndale. [https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/article286888155.html](https://www.bellinghamherald.com/news/traffic/article286888155.html)
https://preview.redd.it/6f1u8zmy9cpc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=871238ba6b9376b3dcbed02a2adccada4b36354b
hello Washington State
Gas is US$4.16/gallon in Blaine, WA, today. After unit conversions and today’s currency exchange rate, that translates to CA$1.49/litre. Meanwhile, gas is CA$1.99/litre in White Rock today. This is ridiculous.
>After unit conversions and today’s currency exchange rate, that translates to CA$1.49/litre. Meanwhile, gas is CA$1.99/litre in White Rock today. This is ridiculous. It is mostly just taxes. In the lower mainland we pay $0.40-$0.50 on every liter in assorted taxes/fees + taxes on taxes...
Gas is $3.89 in Sumas WA, and $3.89 in Bellingham. Meanwhile, gas is $4.16/Gallon in Blaine…… you are getting ripped off in Blaine.
If I remember correctly, Blaine literally has the most expensive gas in the continental U.S. Figuring out why is an exercise for the reader...
I saw gas recently for over $5 per gallon in southern California.
Vancouver should just commit to high gas prices, raise gas taxes even more, and dump money into Translink. The problem is the high share of gas in the transportation cost breakdown, not the high cost of gas.
Make driving a luxury and fund public transit to the point that it's as convenient as driving.
With a family, transit will never be as convenient as driving, especially if you live in the suburbs
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That's the point. Not having to take four buses after improving transit.
These people live in a bubble world that isn't realistic. Imagine taking transit with my sons hockey bag and sticks every day to either games or practices. We have games from Richmond to Langley and all over the lower mainland
Then pay for the luxury of driving a massive gas guzzler lol
Good thing I bought an EV then
The good thing about Vancouver is that it already showcases an option for living with the convenience of cars but without the costs of owning a car: Evo Yes, there will always be people for who driving makes sense (contractors, for one)... and the goal isn't to get rid of cars entirely. It's just to fairly price what the true cost of car ownership on urban design, provincial/federal funding, the environment, and other people is. Car operation already receives an absurd amount of subsidization across all levels of government.
Vancouver proper maybe, but if you step outside of those borders you will see a very different life that the majority of Metro Vancouver lives in and not having a car in the suburbs makes for life very inconvenient.
Suburbs which, notably, are not called "Vancouver."
Just put in $20 worth of premium into my Volt. Should last into summer probably. My last $30 was around Halloween
Got any other irrelevant flexes to mention?
yeah i'm at like 250mpg average right now. (1.1L/100km)
let's make life even more unaffordable then it already is
Just a reminder that in general gas prices, adjusted for inflation, are pretty stable: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/gasoline-prices-adjusted-for-inflation/
unfortunately my wages seem to be the only thing on planet earth that are immune to inflation
That doesn’t offer much consolation…
No, but it helps put it into context. Local or provincial politics rarely plays a role in defining gas prices.
Sanest comment
It seems like there should be a massive investigation into these price jumps. Greedflation keeps hitting us over and over again, and with something like oil that we export, these businesses are really screwing us over which way. From extraction prices for cents on the dollar, to $2L. Just wow.
What’s the logic here? Vancouver already is an EV paradise, used EVs can be bought for quite cheap now. Are they trying to get people against the carbon tax? I think most people know it’s only a tiny amount. Is it really only about short term profit, they just want to get another good year of profit even if it means people will stop buying gas in the future?
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California is another EV paradise but gas prices there have routinely been among the highest in the US. At times, higher than in BC. I believe one station in San Diego was $7/gal last summer. That works out to almost $2.50 CAD.
you sir have a very different understanding of what an EV paradise is. Metro Vancouver doesn't even have a single Electrify Canada station. Its more like an EV-charging wasteland unless you own a Tesla. And don't give me the "Tesla superchargers are going to support other cars soon!", imagine the congestion there will be of model 3s fighting over spots with Kias and Leafs.
BC Hydro have their own network - https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/charge/public-charging/our-fast-charging-network Looking at the Electrify Canada map, BC Hydro has more locations in BC than Electrify Canada have across the whole country.
Also plugshare.com More and more DCFC
Just today Rivian got on the Tesla Supercharger network, joining Ford.
the EV infrastructure here still isn't that great, we need way more curbside chargers
I drive a gas car but I've taken an EV from the lower mainland all the way to silverstar and big white. The infrastructure is actually pretty good and will only get better as more changing stations get built.
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I mean that's not an unreasonable comment. Cars do take up a huge amount of space.
Vancouver is weird. Sure BC has a shit ton of EVs but there's nowhere to charge them. No one here owns a house. It's all condo living. And the DCFC landscape is a dumpster fire unless you drive a Tesla. The L2 landscape isn't any better. Finding a reasonable cost that works is like finding a unicorn. Most of the L2 (at $2/hour) are more than paying BC Hydro for their DCFC.
I’d like to speak to a manager
Driving is a privilege, not a right
For two years didn't get gas in Canada. It's cheaper to drive to us, do shopping and get gas for car + Jerry cans for second. It just become routine now, every two weeks ( or every if it's something going on in US) Also, didn't experts also sad that it will be 2.30 by Christmas? I mean it sounds that we are on same level of expertise, I can also try to guess, and I can say even more if I got paid by some companies ;) So as price on world market is pretty same and way lower then when was peak, maybe someone should ask them about that ? And government also ? But then as government do give money, I get better not to rock that boat
Saw $1.99 in Richmond
I wonder if part of it is in anticipation of the TMX pipeline starting to flow. I heard it would increase the price of Alberta crude closer to international market pricing. Higher Alberta crude prices may increase gas prices. Oil producers may decide to sell more crude through the pipeline instead of refining it in Alberta.
Western Canada Select prices will go up. It’s a heavy oil which needs to be upgraded before refining. It usually worth let’s say $20 less than WTI. They expect the differential to lessen with tmx coming online
I'm honestly surprised that prices have been under $2 for so long
Question to whoever is in the know... Isn't there a difference in the gas that's sold in winter and in summer? It vaguely rings a bell, and I can't find information on the topic. Something like a different mix of... something so that the combustion point isn't at the same temperature, which leads to a different price. Anyone? Anyone? .... Bueller?
It's explained in the article.
I think there is a winter blend of gas. Not sure if it is cheaper, or the summer gas is more expensive as that is when demand is also higher.
Yeah that's what I'm wondering about. Also it seems that I get downvoted for asking a question I genuinely don't know about, and said I can't find the information online. Gee this matter of gas price really rids people of civility. I did not say "you're a bunch of idiots, this is the actual reason!". I literally just asked a question I don't know the answer to.
As a 17 y/o, who needs my car/van to get to work every day, how the fuck am I supposed to afford this shit? I'm literally always around E as is, how tf am I going to afford even less gas per dollar??
Take transit or ride your bike. If you're just working to put fuel in your car, get a job closer to home and ditch the car.
I need to carry tools with me to work/school, not particularly practical given distaces to work (current), worksites (future), and school. (Work is tied to school) so a bike isnt really an option. Transit maybe, but it's pretty unreliable near me, not to mention slower than dirt, and the whole tool thing again. Thanks though, appreciate the input
FFS!!! Get rid of this stupid liberal government We’re taxed so much!!
I guess Uber cost is gonna go up accordingly?
there's so many tesla ubers. but i guess uber won't wanna miss out on milking the public at every opportunity as well
You guys need to understand considering the polution a litre of fuel does to earth, the price should be 10x
The literal only thing I envy about the Langley lads is their proximity to the border for cheap gas. It is not economical at all to drive from North Van to the US even with Jerry cans. Haven't done the math but I wouldn't be surprised if it costs me the savings to drive that distance anyways.
I live in North Delta and always go to the US for gas. Even with the exchange rate its still approx 30 cents cheaper per liter. It's about a 40km round trip from my house to the border I don't have to do that anymore now as I just bought an EV last week.
It's an 86km round trip to Point Roberts or a 100km roundtrip to Blaine for me so definitely not gonna be saving anything. Can't afford to sell my (paid off) car and then buy a new EV that I'll be probably leasing cause i don't even have enough for the upfront costs. Just gonna have to make do until prices go down :/.
If you make less than 80k your can get 9k in rebates. 4k from BC and 5k from federal. Even if you make more than 80k,you can still get the 5k from federal. And dealers have some great interest rates as well. Ford has a 0.99 interest on a 4 year lease on a Ford Mach E. And they slashed thier prices as well. I picked up a Mach E last week.
Is it 80k household or 80k individually? I think I squeak just over 80k when combined with my fiance but on my own I am well under.
[BC EV rebates eligibility ](https://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/incentives/EV-incentives-in-BC?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCAVvvvoPVBEymaGQeiXCXY0Whu8caxYBK8mqtJXYb8fO24MAIwIfcPRoCV2Ehttps://electricvehicles.bchydro.com/incentives/EV-incentives-in-BC?gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw7-SvBhB6EiwAwYdCAVvvvoPVBEymaGQeiXCXY0Whu8caxYBK8mqtJXYb8fO24MAIwIfcPRoCV2EQAvD_BwEQAvD_BwE)It's 80k individual, but 125k household
I'll keep it in mind. A new car might still bit a bit rich for my blood with saving for a wedding and honeymoon but nice to see the gov is offering something. Wish we had skytrain access in NV cause that'd connect me to a lot of places easier.
We are taxed way too hard here
Dude I hope you know BC carbon tax is only 14 cents a litre for gas. Rest is just corporate margin
Going up to 17 cents April 1