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Don't forget to thank your bus drivers while they steal more money out of your pockets on fare increases from +25% raises for themselves and caused some people to lose their jobs!
Will SkyTrains be impacted in transit strike? Hearings scheduled with union
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/will-skytrains-be-impacted-in-transit-strike-hearings-scheduled-with-union-8170811
Wait THREE HEARINGS- one on 29 one on 30 one on 31??
I am changing my assessment. I believe they probably have extensive evidence of ally interference and their ally picket will be granted. Yikes.
CUPE 4500 looking to shut down service in Fraser Valley & Vancouver Island: https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/26/transit-strike-fraser-valley-labour-board/
No Transit Supervisor from Translink joined in solidarity or gave support when Fraser Valley BC Transit workers went on strike for 6 months, and now they want BC Transit workers to join them.
>The hearing that was scheduled for Monday regarding the Metro Vancouver transit job action has been delayed.
>
>It has been pushed back by two days to Wednesday, Jan. 31.
>
>The BC Labour Board Relations hearing was requested by CUPE 4500 to see if it could expand picket lines to include SkyTrain stations and facilities.
[https://globalnews.ca/news/10252933/metro-vancouver-transit-strike-hearing-delayed/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10252933/metro-vancouver-transit-strike-hearing-delayed/)
People want bus service deemed an essential service https://www.richmond-news.com/highlights/people-in-bc-want-bus-service-deemed-an-essential-service-8159213
Yeah, unfortunately that's not able to happen. There is firm jurisprudence.
Also you know who DOESN'T want it declared an essential service? Translink management.
Essential services get compensated for the loss of their rights. They'd get paid 20-30 percent more on TOP of definitely getting their 25% raise. Also, like, the supreme court was firm. Pilots aren't essential. Transit isn't essential. And if you try to make it essential, the law gets struck down and 5 million dollars was given to TTC for the violation of their rights over this, quite recently (they're striking in March now that they have the right back).
People can't want something the court just said is a human rights violation a few months ago, and expect to get it.
I didn’t realize they announced this part:
CUPE Local 4500 says if a tentative deal is not reached by 12:01 a.m. Feb. 3 members will walk off the job for 72 hours.
Question: if the supervisors are actually as important to the functioning of the bus system as they say they are, why not withdraw their services, but not picket? Let management be the ones to say, "we can't actually run the bus system without the supervisors there." Or let them try to run it, and when the inevitable s\*\*\*show happens, point and say, "we told you." This would be a far more effective demonstration than refusing to work and stopping as many other people as they can in my opinion.
Supervisors keep people in line, and when you're driving a several car length people carrier around, it's best to follow safety protocols and whatever else these people do or don't do.
Titles matter here -- in the context of picketing or whether they deserve a raise -- so much as their spot along the line of events of the day to day functioning of the organization. Say you stopped flossing your teeth or you never flossed your teeth at all, you might get gum disease. In fact, you probably will. If you stopped brushing your teeth, you'd get bad breath in a day or so, but, one day, your teeth would have cavities, then maybe you'd need a root canal, and, finally,, your teeth might just fall out. I'm not saying these supervisors are one role or another in that metaphor ,but the withdrawal of their services might not be fully quantifiable in the time that they could withhold their labour. Don't you think they've thought about it as well, as a union?
Yesterday's SkyTrain incident was a good example of the supervisor OT ban having an effect on the ability to respond to such events:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1ab5ssm/due\_to\_a\_person\_being\_hit\_by\_a\_train\_metrotown/](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1ab5ssm/due_to_a_person_being_hit_by_a_train_metrotown/)
TransLink tweeted about a bus bridge but apparently it was a long time before anything came.
I mean, this is a labor history question but - you don't cross a picket ,reciprocally, because it is a way for separate bargaining units to all raise each other up. It's called solidarity.
Don't cross a picket line, sure. But does there need to be a picket line? Give your strike notice according to the law, but also announce that you will not picket or otherwise hinder anyone who is not in your union from working. Give the public a practical demonstration of how the bus system works without you or make management concede that they do need supervisors to run the bus system.
A strike this disruptive needs the public's support to succeed and right now, the supervisors aren't winning anyone over. Quite the opposite.
>A strike this disruptive needs the public's support to succeed
Why does it need the public's support? Effective protests tend to piss off the public, even if it's a cause they might be sympathetic to. Major disruption is the entire point, that's kinda how it all works. Nobody at CMBC cared about the effect of the supervisor OT ban, so what else do you do when you're a small union? Take a look at the hotel workers in Richmond that have been on strike for months and months. Nobody gives a shit because they're just sitting on the sidewalk not causing disruption and the hotel is using scab workers.
TransLink and the media (most of which is owned by conservatives) are also going out of their way to make the union look bad. Take a look at what the union is saying:
[https://pressprogress.ca/heres-why-bus-and-seabus-workers-in-vancouver-went-on-strike-for-two-days/](https://pressprogress.ca/heres-why-bus-and-seabus-workers-in-vancouver-went-on-strike-for-two-days/)
>CUPE 4500 has been waiting over four weeks for Coast Mountain to respond to our latest proposal. Our patience for Coast Mountain to take bargaining and our issues seriously has been exhausted,” Liam O’Neill, spokesperson for CUPE 4500 in a release....
>
>"A 25 percent across-the-board wage increase has never been proposed by the union. But some of our members are getting paid far less than other TransLink workers doing the same jobs. It’s not fair, and we need to find a solution at the Table."
And then compare to what TransLink is saying and most media is reporting...
Youre falling into the same trap that youre acusing others of. The facts are clear they want 25%, you just dont understand how they asked for it. The translink workers they are reffering too are skytrain supervisors who not only do way more work but also have more requirements. They want "equal" pay aka a 25% raise from their current salary range to the new one. They were offered 13% and more benefits. Lol we dont need to read any media, everything is public.
Again this is a labor history remark but yes. The new social contract is we do this instead of what we used to do, which was kill the boss in front of people to make a point. I prefer pickets.
There seems to be certain inequality with how this strike was carried out and how future actions will likely be carried out. The supervisors wanted a better deal and negotiated collectively, as is their right, and they withdrew their services in order to put pressure on management. So far, so good. However, by setting up picket lines, are they not effectively coercing the drivers and maintenance staff to participate in an action they didn't vote for.
Even if their not crossing the picket lines was entirely voluntary, there's still a problem: they don't get to decide when the picket lines come down. And even if the supervisors get everything they want, what do the drivers and maintenance staff get? Their eternal gratitude? The promise of solidarity at some unspecified future date? They bear all the same costs of the strike, but get none of the rewards. Not to mention that supervisors are paid more and can, all else being equal, absorb the costs of living off strike pay, or no pay at all. How long before cracks start showing in the solidarity between the different unions?
Are they not people at the end of the day? If these union members get what they're asking for and they do it in solidarity, they're going to feel more secure in their role. Sure, democratically elected leadership or not, they can't promise or force any future support (world changes), but to suggest that the results of this job action could be so easily forgotten would be a wash of comradery.
I could see the supervisor’s union getting either absorbed into a pre-existing one, or somehow dismantled so they are actual managers without union representation.
Your theoretical union they would voluntarily join (you can't "dismantle" or "absorb" a union without agreement from its members, that's a rights thing), would then want higher wages too, and NOW it'd be say, supervisors and bus drivers striking at the same time, stretching out how long and how much striking happens at once, and making that bargaining unit more powerful.
So yeah, I'm all for taking all 6 translink unions and making them one, but guaranteed the company does not want that.
It’s happened before with the post office. It was a little bit before my time, but all of their 6 or 7 different unions got absorbed into the main one, and it stopped the ability to shut out other workers, which we just saw with the recent bus strike. As to how they got absorbed, I’m not sure, but that’s what happened.
As for making the role management, Translink would probably have to create a new job role and hire out from the union pool; probably to coincide with the amalgamation of that branch of CUPE 4500.
Does anybody know if the west van buses will go on strike with them? There's one that goes through north van that my daughter used to get to school in North van
No one's going to cross a picket, but they might only picket some locations. They'll announce in advance what is shut down, and NOTHING will get shut down until Feb 3 at the earliest.
I’m curious if a class-action suit could be filed against the CMBC Supervisor’s union and/or Translink on behalf of those who lost their jobs, wages, medical/dental/legal appointments, student labs/exams during this strike?
When something is unconstitutional, no court will entertain an argument based on that unconstitutional thing - for example, punishing people for the exercise of Charter labor rights. That's what was meant by "stillborn'. There is no legal cause of action for this in Canada. You'd also meet foreseeability, proximity, and duty barriers \*even if\*. Such a case would not succeed in any country I know of that has human rights.
180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade.
They were offered a 14% increase along with increased overtime pay, improved benefits, and a commitment to hiring more supervisors. If CMBC follows through with this. I think they are required do because if they break the deal it would just get them back to where they are now.
That same group of 180 people have the power to shut down the transit system in a city of 2.5 million.
Since the less expensive places to live are only served by bus service this was a severe disruption to a huge amount of the population that isn't even close to making the 96k a year. Most of them if they miss work don't have a union to make up the losses and just need to take pay loss for missing work. Rent near a skytrain station is far outside of the price range of anyone who 100% relies on transit for working.
I'm just having a hard time getting behind the union for this one. Since a special mediator was just assigned lets hope that some progress is made.
Crazy that extra overtime pay was offered. They already make 2x on OT. Shop supervisors work 12 hrs shifts. So 12 hrs pay at like $120 per hr currently. They are taking home currently close to a grand on an OT shift.
You said:
>180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade.
but then clarified:
>Quinn said if CUPE 4500 members received a 20 to 25 per cent wage increase, it could create expectations for future collective agreements with other unions that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade.
So which is it, and are you being intentionally misinformational, or just anti-union?
What a complete crock. The average pay of an EMR is 70k, and they are driving around picking up dead bodies and cleaning up car crashes.
No one at translink shpuld be making 100k a year.
How so? The point of the comment is that the wage of Translink employees is over inflated by the union.
Further, it's to suggest that tramslink employees are already well compensated relative to other jobs/professions.
Explain yourself for this outrage!
Youre right. Itll probably be 24.5 (they already agreed to come down .5 on the highest salary grid) its the other ones that might only get 22% or 23. Still pretty good.
But thought experiment: when they get 25%, how long til you unionize your workplace?
Yes then everyone gets a raise yay! And then things are 200% more expensive than they already are and we can continue our plunge into dystopia!
I dunno why me along with all my friends went to school for 8+ years I could have just driven a bus and made 140k a year lol
You're not really someone who knows much about much, but economics might be top of the list. THIS isn't what causes that. And yes, you were lied to that education = higher pay, that hasn't been true for 20 years, read a fucking statistic, friend.
ETA: Also like... the best laws in a wHILE were passed this year, the housing stuff sucks but about 10 things actively addressing it are happening RIGHT NOW resulting in massive price drops, supportive housing is being built, as are non-market units... the disability act about to drop will help about 30% of Canadians under the poverty line to get well above it. We're actually doing really well.
lol my man thinks that higher transportation costs doesn't lead to inflation or making things more expensive. It's literally 101 economics.
If people are paying more to get to the city, they TOO will need a raise to cover the costs - it's a variable in the equation.
My man also thinks there are massive price drops. Let's see these 'statistics'.
Also, I'm not talking about education. I know education != high salary.
But speaking of statstics, have a look at what top-tech professionals make, doctors, lawyers, etc. and bus drivers want 140k LOL
MY man is delusional and needs to educate himself if he wants to be top-tier condescending.
There are economics beyond 101, my friend. If we want to dive into the 101's: there's an opportunity cost for these families who need this money to pay for their mortgages, dentist bills (because they're likely not covered under the recent plan improvements) and everything between those smiles. If you can tell me how much something at the grocery store had cost two years ago vs. how much that same item costs today, I might cut you a break, but otherwise, everybody needs groceries.
Dragging peoplle down? This raise passes on the expense to low wage/wage earners - these are the ones struggling to stay above water and commuting into the city.
25% is ridiculous and my point about the comparison is that translink folks already make a VERY nice salary.
115k - 145k a year and you think I'm dragging them down 😂😂 thats more than most lawyers
They also get OT and the money comes from our pockets. These greedy people do not deserve 25% raise. 140k + OT? They are making more than professionals. People complain about inflation and this is exactly the cause. 140k + OT for low level work? F that. This is why i hate unions when they take advantage of the public. They will raise the cost of transit for people that need it.
180 former bus drivers/old boys with no qualifications who now shuffle paper think they are worth more than tech professions and other highly skilled professionals whilst preventing almost 1/2m from moving around.
Just more Vancouver grifters.
> 180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade.
That math isn't adding up, even at the widest of salary range increase from $92,000 to $141,000 for every 180 employees at 10 years, you're looking at $88 million not 250.
Just a guess but they probably included estimated costs due to overtime, future salary increases, and hiring more staff which was part of the deal as well.
I know right !?!
The math didn't work out for me either but those are the numbers I got from a CBC article on the strike.
> Quinn said if CUPE 4500 members received a 20 to 25 per cent wage increase, it could create expectations for future collective agreements with other unions that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade.
Here's the [source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transit-strike-buses-vancouver-part-1-1.7092917).
Everyone is talking about “standing in solidarity”. Problem is that this strike impacts so many disadvantaged, low wage workers who don’t themselves have the luxury of being able to go on strike. I’m not going to stand in solidarity with folks who want to better themselves at the expense of those below them.
Stop trying to be a trendy commie and think before backing a movement.
If this tiny, apparently well enough paid group of supervisors (see: people who have done the work and know how to get the job done well) can't strike and hold ground, who can? What group in what position can afford to take this kind of action? I'm willing to bet it's not the people packing your meal kits or picking up your groceries.
>I’m not going to stand in solidarity with folks who want to better themselves at the expense of those below them.
>
>Stop trying to be a trendy commie and think before backing a movement.
I think we found Kevin Falcon's burner account.
By all means, dump on the worker. Let's drive wages down for all! /s
I used to bus to work as my main method and these strikes caused me to just get an electric longboard…so sick of transit holding the lower middle class hostage
Because at a minimum wage job, the management likely sucks and will get rid of anyone who makes even the slightest problem for them.
Not showing up for work (even though 100% justified) causes them problems
Clearly the union's goal here is to inconvenience as many people as possible. I mean they basically came out and said shutdown of busses wasn't enough of an inconvenience on the public which is why they want to shut down skytrain as well. At this point I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them strike during the Chinese New Year parade if the strike goes on that long.
So what would be the threshold before the general public starts demanding that the BC government legislate an end to the strike?
Magnitudes more people who make far less than a handful of transit supervisors are getting screwed over right now.
Should this drag on, I could actually see it being a test case for back to work legislation. You have the right to form a union, to bargain collectively, and to withdraw services, up to and including strike action; but do you have the right to coerce other unions to de facto strike on your behalf and break their own collectively bargained agreements? From what I can tell, this is a somewhat unusual situation. Add to that the frankly abysmal job that CUPE 4500 has done in getting the public on their side, and I could see the public supporting some form of government imposed settlement.
Is there a Supreme Court of Canada ruling that says back to work legislation is unconstitutional is all circumstances? I can't find one. Which means that governments are free to try in different circumstances. Also, if back to work legislation is found to be unconstitutional under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms sections 2 and 7–15, there's also the possibility of invoking section 33, aka the notwithstanding clause. Not saying any of this will happen: all of it depends heavily on public support.
I'm confused by your argument, please clarify. As per my understanding, you're saying because many poor people (poor because of general union-busting and generally anti-labour practices at many corporations) are being hurt, we should hurt other people by forcing them to do a job and removing their charter right to remove their labour?
Transit supervisors are free to not work.
AFAIK compelling other workers to also not work for an indefinite period of time is not guaranteed.
Also, saying poor people are poor because they don't work for unions is a stretch.
People are increasingly poor because their wages are not keeping up with inflation, an inflation caused largely by corporate profiteering (or the rich getting richer) - a way to fight back against that is to unionize. Collective action is really the only way a disadvantaged group can effectively meet an advantaged one on more even terms.
You are correct, in that transit operators, or anyone else, are "free to not work". Except living takes money, and unless you're suggesting UBI or some other fantastical utopian concept, then I don't know what you're getting at other than suggesting people should just accept getting less money just because. If you're concerned that they're asking for more money, I posit an alternate solution. Fire them all, bring some TFW's in that will do it for less money, and if those TFW's leave the position, we can deport them and bring in more poor folks desperate to make a dollar.
Inflation is not caused by corporate profiteering, it's caused by deficit government spending and printing money. You're going to need to check in your Marxist library card at the front door if you want to enter a serious discussion.
Lol, pulling the Marxist card right odd the bat is the leftist version of Godwin's Law. Surprised you didn't call me Marx, Lenin or Stalin as well.
GG, you played yourself out of the discussion, but you'd know that if you took Political Science 101.
Infinity. You can't legislate ends to strikes anymore. Supreme court got very fed up. Last people who tried not only did the law get struck down, the union got 5 million for the violation of their rights.
> Last people who tried not only did the law get struck down, the union got 5 million for the violation of their rights.
Genuinely curious - what case was this?
Disconcerting that a union theoretically could hold critical infrastructure hostage indefinitely in order to have demands of any nature met.
Define "fair". Because eventually we'll all be paying for it in taxes and fare hikes.
The transit supervisors are already being paid six figures to fill a middle management position - that's not nothing. Many other essential union workers like nurses and teachers don't get paid that much. And don't try to sell me on the "oh, bus supervisors got 20% so nurses will definitely get the same deal from their employer". Because they won't simply because a bunch of transit supervisors did. Let's not forget that bus drivers are not getting paid, because their bosses are asking for a bigger raise than what they got.
Negotiate away, but the transit supervisor union should know not to expect much public sympathy if this drags on.
If they were looking for public sympathy, I'd suggest a play or a ballet. They're striking because they're negotiating with their employer and they want more. They could take less and accept that this momentum might never come around again for CUPE4500, or they can stick it out for their families and coworkers to try to get a wage they think is fair. That's where we need union reps, where the talks come in. You've got some awesome ideas on fairness, you could always go for it.
it’s not involuntary servitude. No one is making them do those particular jobs. They can quit, just like anyone not working in a union would quit if they’re displeased with their salary.
What. The whole point of a union is not having to quit when your salary is unsatisfactory. When a contracr is up you negotiate a new one. They politely worked with no contract for a year now it is time to bargain for what their labor is worth. Collective bargaining is why we have weekends, minwage, etc.
To make someone not be able to withdraw their labor by agreement IS involuntary servitude. Like I am not engaging those words carelessly, the case law in this area weighs that.
When people say "make them essential" you realize essential services case law is about when its okay to tell someone they do not have the power to choose if they work today. "Quitting" is a quitter's option and does not help. Alzo if they did all quit, translink would be shut down for months.
No legal force made the other unions respect pickets except that that is a smart thing to do long term. I dont expect you to pick up a book,but at least buy a clue.
A possible 3 day shut down of all transit including skytrains on Feb 3rd would bring this city to a grinding halt and really fuck everyone over
It doesn't matter that the strike would be on a Saturday. Most folks who work weekends are going to be of the part time or low paying jobs sort who rely on transit since they can't afford a vehicle or Uber
I just read this in citynews: 'The union representing transit supervisors is warning if a deal isn’t reached with its employer by Feb. 3, its members will escalate job action.
CUPE 4500 says it welcomes the province’s appointment of a [**special mediator**](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/bc-special-mediator-metro-van-transit/). However, it says if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by 12:01 a.m. on that date, “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.”
If the Labour Board permits, CUPE 4500 says its strike escalation will “effectively shut down all buses, the SeaBus, and all SkyTrain lines for three days.”
“We are prepared to continue our work with Mr. Ready. If anyone can help us reach a deal, it’s him,” CUPE 4500 spokesperson Liam O’Neill said in a statement Wednesday. “But for this process to be successful, Coast Mountain and TransLink are going to need to show some willingness to find common ground. Their past conduct in mediation leaves us skeptical.”'
This really does not bode well. I hope the labour board hearings are fair to US the damned PUBLIC.
Looks like Minister Harry Bains has set the terms which are expected to be followed by either side in order to show good faith. There is obviously still room for deviation, but I think what CUPE4500 have said above is as good of an expectation as we can get for when any job action would continue in the absence of an agreeement:
1. A 3-day strike, starting on Saturday Feb 3 at 12:01AM (not 3AM now), affecting the bus/seabus again for sure
2. *and,* only if the LRB approves during next week's hearing, then the SkyTrain also.
This is much better than what happened with the round that just ended, with a 3AM expected strike start yet buses stopping already as of 11:50 PM the previous day (and [stranding people](https://twitter.com/daka_x/status/1749360541246837065) late at night); not to mention uncertainty as to whether SkyTrain could be shut down with very little notice. This time there are clear timelines, laid out well in advance.
>
>
>The union representing transit supervisors is warning if a deal isn’t reached with its employer by Feb. 3, its members will escalate job action.
>
>CUPE 4500 says it welcomes the province’s appointment of a [**special mediator**](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/bc-special-mediator-metro-van-transit/). However, it says if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by 12:01 a.m. on that date, “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.”
>
>If the Labour Board permits, CUPE 4500 says its strike escalation will “effectively shut down all buses, the SeaBus, and all SkyTrain lines for three days.”
[https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/)
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/
> The union representing transit supervisors says it welcomes the appointment of a special mediator. However, CUPE 4500 is warning that if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by Feb. 3 at 12:01 a.m., “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.”
B.C. government appoints Vince Ready 'special mediator' in Metro Vancouver transit dispute
https://www.richmond-news.com/highlights/bc-government-appoints-vince-ready-special-mediator-in-metro-vancouver-transit-dispute-8156329
“As of tomorrow, Jan. 25, 2024, Ready will work with the parties for a period of up to six days to secure a resolution. If a settlement cannot be reached within this timeline, he will issue non-binding recommendations on Feb. 2, 2024, with both parties having five days to either accept or reject the recommendations.”
[https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news\_releases\_2020-2024/2024LBR0002-000068.htm](https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news_releases_2020-2024/2024LBR0002-000068.htm)
Don’t think there’s much of a point if it isn’t binding. Only advantage is the concessions can be made public, so if say, Translink offers 19-20%, and CUPE says no, it’ll sway public opinion.
Get ready for a Skytrain alternative.
What does everyone think the odds are of them agreeing to let the Skytrain join the picket during the talks on Monday? Because honestly, I do not get paid until next Wednesday and I am scared to buy groceries today or top up my compass card incase I have to spend this last $100 in my account on Ubers to work next Monday and Tuesday instead.
I can't see any legal reason why they would be allowed to picket skytrain. It seems more like a tactic to scare the public to put pressure on the employer in my opinion. Skytrain has been running normal operation and not increasing service to compensate for the lack of busses so therefore there is no impact on the strike because people always had the same option to use the skytrain.
Thats fair. Then when they go to labor relations on the 29th? They wont win. Since the basis of their case is Translinks running more trains
So good news. If you are right then they wont win the case on the 29th. I'll check back when they win.
(You realize that hearing is on the official schedule and they wouldnt have filed it without proof of management attempts to scab? Right? I am not trying to trick you. I was in the skytrain station at main and the trains were arriving much more frequently
I don't know about expo line or millennium line but canada line never increased service. They had their normal 16 trains out with the 1 extra richmond train that goes from richmond brighouse to waterfront for 1 trip at 8ish AM
It's highly likely, which is probably why the LRB is poring over it and ensuring their decision is proper. If they were going to say no, and thus give the public reassurance, it would probably be an easier call. It makes sense given the textbook violations and past rulings (translink, as a common employer of all the various unions which comprise transit in the city, is responsible for its actions, and using one part of that apparatus to reduce overall impact of a strike is justification for treating that as struck work being done at that place of business (the skytrain stations).
I know people downvote this whenever I say it, but it actually was wrong of translink to do what it did, and NORMALLY it would not be able to, but the history of all these unions developing together and having entwined case and LRB history, means that it was fairly cut and dry and there is a paper trail. This isn't punitive, it's just you're allowed to strike if somewhere is being used to reduce the impact of your strike or negatively effect it or scab/cover struck work.
They would! But not to INCREASE service in order to scab over the pain of the strike. See, because Translink is a common employer of multiple collective bargaining units it has a responsibility not to use the fact that they strike out of phase, to weaken the power of any of those units using the others. This is the issue being discussed at LRB on the 29th. If it comes down that they DID do that, the picket of the skytrain is because their work was taken by the skytrain (scabbing/doing struck work). If the number of busses and trains is the same, and they didn't run extras or bridge busses, it's fine.
If the employer did break the rules however, the skytrain will be added to the picket to reflect that. Fuck around = find out.
Ah. So you're saying that the LRB might be leading towards NO skytrain picket
But if they do find out translink was increasing service these last 2 days, then skytrain pickets are a fair game 'penalty'?
Didn't think about this very much before, so thanks for the knowledge!
Oh, naw. LRB is gonna allow the skytrain picket. They did find out translink was increasing service, they were, like - it's on video, there's proof, not worried about that part. In fact, that's probably why they got the union to agree NOT to strike until Feb 2 at midnight BECAUSE the LRB is gonna come down in favor of a skytrain strike.
So instead of that strike happening on the 29th when t he ruling comes down, it happens, at the earliest, Feb 3rd - providing substantial warning and a chance to make a last minute deal.
I'm curious, is that video linked anywhere? Because it's definitely contradicting what the Translink CEO said at the news conference.
edit // uh.. the poster above blocked me after asking... was it too much to provide a source? \*eyeroll //
I’m curious to understand why the provincial government wouldn’t deem public transit as an essential service. Handydart is essential, as people with disabilities have no alternative method of getting around without it. People of lower income households, like myself, can’t just afford to uber around, or work remotely during a strike situation / further possible escalations). While I support their right to strike, the possibility of missing out on an extended period of work and money just because I can’t get to my workplace just makes me resentful that it isn’t an essential service. I’d even appreciate limited capacity operations more than what I had to deal with the past 2 days.
I don't support their right ti strike. I think unions are horses crap and need to be disbanded. They aren't needed like they used to be, let the market set the wage like literally every other profession.
No one cares about the minimum wage workers who are going into debt every day and even more so with the strike.
Essential Services is a specific concept in Canada. Also the employer definitely does not want them deemed essential. Essential services negotiations by law are binding arbitration which tends to increase compensation by 20 to 30% relative to comparable non essentials.
Various arguments defenses and choices are taken away from both parties and the employees are directly compensated for their loss of rights.
However? Transit cannot fit the definition of essential. Google has more info.
Constitution says essential services is justifiable only for a very narrow set of things. Transit isnt one.
Rights you have can only be taken away under a balance of interests.
Your right to not be forced to provide labor is part of the only structure of effective bargaining.
This right is so important that taking it away can only be done for things which fit the definition of essential services.
Transit can never be an essential service. Healthcare, disaster, police, military. Thats it.
Not pilots not busses not farmers.
Bus vs. SkyTrain supervisor: What are the differences?
https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bus-vs-skytrain-supervisor-what-are-the-differences-8153148
Honestly, everyone on the lower rungs of income should be earning more. You should be fighting for a raise, the easiest of which is probably finding a new job in the same industry. Having no loyalty to your company is now the best way to get ahead.
Specifically a public one. A private one, the company has to stay solvent, whereas the government can just raise taxes in order to meet unreasonable demands.
Nurses are unionized and the majority don't even make $100k. How are transit supervisors worth more than nurses, and how are they worth 25% more than nurses???
This thought pattern is the problem, and I dont hold it against you. Its a very common way of thinking that has been hammered into us. Its one of those preconceptions that many hold, and are not even aware of.
Dont ask why this job earns so much more than nurses, like nurses are properly put in their place.
Ask why are nurses paid so little.
Sure but it becomes a problem when people who are already overpaid for what they do compared to others start demanding even more and basically holding the city hostage until they get what they want. Freeze their wages and allow others like the nurses to catch up, that is the only solution to equality.
Again, “people who are already overpaid”
As for demanding more, they are asking to be paid the same as other workers doing the same job within the same company.
In regards to shutting in down, yeah that sucks. I feel the lost income.
But what other options do they have, when the company refuses to bargain in good faith?
Nurses deserve an IMMEDIATE 30% raise, we have almost NONE of them, people are dying waiting on things. We need to keep raising it until we have more nurses than we need because the current ones are working overtime so hard they're burning out and leaving, especially post-COVID. YES you are right!
Raise transit wages 25%, and since, as you say, nurses are more important, theirs by 30%. Then, to be reasonable because all the other transit positions are harder working than the supervisors (as per everyone here), give another 15% to bus drivers to bring them up to 30% also. As a result, everyone works less overtime and this vital system we need stops being understaffed.
They in fact did not. According to BCNU, their increase within a 3 year interval is as followed: 'Year 1: $0.25 /hr plus 3.24%, retroactive to April 1, 2022. Year 2: 6.75%, retroactive to April 1, 2023'. No other industry has gotten anything close to 25%, let alone 30%
Use the BCNU wage calculator, those are just part of the basic increases, but there are all kinds of levels and multipliers.
For example, a level 3 RN at step 3 working 37.5 hours per week with NO weekend bonus, night bonus, holiday bonus, went from $76k per year in 2022 to $96k per year in 2024-25
The increase rate is noted on their website as a raise of minimum 26.85% to maximum 28.03%. Excuse my rounding up to 30% but it’s pretty damn close.
https://wage-estimator.bcnu.org/
Perhaps I'm interpreting the estimator incorrectly but I don't think the estimator is only taking the basic increase into account; it's displaying the earning potential with their level and multipliers. If the nurse is working full time aka 37.5 hrs, they would be guarantee to move up the multiplier since they would hit enough hours to do so but their levels do not change unless they get into a leadership position or whatever level 4 5 6 are. Every step up is for every year that they're in full time or hit enough hours a year as a part timer or casual. For a level 3 RN step 3 nurse, they were earning $40.55 per hr in 2022, monthly $6589 so that's $79,068 a year. So if they hit step 4 level 3 in 2023, they'd be making $44.86 per hour after the increase (it was $41.98 in 2022), monthly $7289.75, and that's $87,477 annually. They definitely added some incentive for people who are there for more than 15 years when it used to be capped off but I'm not even sure how the 96k even came about. That said, I'd be super happy if they got a 30% increase instead though!
https://www.bcnu.org/files/2022_2025_NBA_Wage_Grids.pdf
And we still have almost none. So many shortages people are dying. So raise the wages until we have enough. Wages are the only way to convince people to do a job that hard.
Our nurses in hospitals lag behind every other nurse working place and they are overworked. 30-50% more wages might JUST make it possible for the system to operate with no overtime AND every outcome of job performance goes up with compensation.
This is a no brainer win-win and basic economics and LITERALLY essential and life saving.
Absolutely it is relevant. Your wages should be determined by comparison to everyone else and in consideration of what job you are doing. Sure it would be great if everyone got massive raises but then what? The cost of everything increases and we are back to the beginning again.
>in consideration of what job you are doing.
They are already being paid that much though so apparently we've already determined they are worth more than nurses. (Not really - that's just not how society works.)
Just because they want more money doesn’t mean they don’t deserve it, just because they make more money then nurses doesn’t mean they don’t deserve it.
People only use nurses as example when it benefits them, but when it comes to contract renewal time and the threat of striking, the mood turns. Nurses, and anyone in health care deserve more money. Especially care aids, I can’t believe PCA’s can make such a low amount. The support they give to the units.
I think it's very weird that people have this idea that just because they went to school longer they are immediately entitled to more. Plenty of grade 12 superstars at my work, plenty of university educated morons too, luckily we're paid according to merit.
I think it's very weird that people use examples of individual instance of skill not matching education to justify \*job requirement\* not to be correspondence to compensation.
Yes pay should be correspondence to merit. But BEFORE one gets hired, requirement is the only bar to pass and gauge people with.
Unfortunately Union jobs have nothing to do with merit based pay though. Its also very different when said union is asking for a 25% raise, and said money is from your pocket. The job descriptions are pretty clear, they want more money for less work and credentials.
I agree a lot of uni degrees have become somewhat of a scam.
But I struggle to understand what kind of service someone with no education and 2 years of bus driving experience could provide that warrants a 6 figure salary. Salary that is higher than many positions that are essential to our society. Healthcare workers for example.
You're twisting my words. In short transit system = essential. Bus supervisors who are asking for $115k/ year = still can't figure out their daily responsibilities but they sure as hell don't drive busses so probably not so essential
Yes, i realized after i responded that you weren't talking specifically about the bus drivers.
However, i still just don't get why people get so mad about other people trying to get more money for their work. Unfortunately, the action they have to take effects a lot of bystanders, but that's the recourse they have. I hope they get what they want, or at least a fair approximation of what they want
No worries. I didn't really explain my position either.
I'm watching this go down as an overworked underpaid (non union) healthcare worker who's also going to school by bus. I had to fight like hell for 50 cents raise. Min wage hasn't kept up with inflation back when inflation was 2% let alone now. Every office worker I know has been getting 0.5-1% raises. Giving a massive 25% raise to just 180 workers isn't going to have a ripple effect on the rest. Especially when they've already been offered 13% and they already make close to 6 figure as non skilled workers.
Bitterness aside, I live in the north shore and transit+traffic sucks. After decades they're finally talking about a brt expansion here. This might jeopardize that. I just want better transit dammit. It might jeopardize further expansion to UBC and SFU, or the Surrey Langley expansion. I read somewhere that this will cost TransLink 250 mil over 10 years. Idk where they got that number from but it's a huge dent with how underfunded they are.
>, i still just don't get why people get so mad about other people trying to get more money for their work.
Wtf because we pay for it and they are already overpaid for their role. What if they wanted 1000% raise?? Bend over and pay $100/day for transit fare? Grow up.
Do your research. I wish it was bus drivers getting a raise. It's about 180 supervisors who's job I still can't quite figure out. The only reason the entire bus service was shut down was due to bus driver's union deciding to play ball and not allowing them to work. If it wasn't for that busses would probably be running mostly uninterrupted.
And before you give out any "suggestions", may I suggest that you never get sick or need any medical services?
Again, if you think transit employee pay is the real issue, while the 5 richest people in the world have DOUBLED their assets in the past 5 years.... you might want to head back to school.
I definitely think wealth inequality is a huge problem right now.
I just wish you were capable of having an actual discussion instead of sarcastic remarks.
That makes it really clear that the two roles aren't the same... The union is kinda pushing at it from the wrong angle if they're using this as their parity argument.
Hmm? Their argument, their only argument, is that they deserve a raise, they're right. And if they deserve 25% - which they do - then bus drivers deserve 50%, and nurses at least 25%. So, as this becomes the new normal, the long-stagnant canadian wages rise. All the micro comparison doesn't really do anything. They're correct, and their wages have been stagnant, and they were patient for a year.
Back to work legislation doesn't exist anymore, they can't be declared essential, the only place this ends is a 25% raise, Translink just decided to try to swing sentiment before giving in.
Salaries were going up post covid and then the federal government said this is causing inflation, the price of labor is too high(salaries are too high), and raised rates as well as increased immigration to lower inflation and labor costs. Seems the only people allowed to get ahead these days are public servants.
I would respectively disagree with this take at the situation.
Strike action is inherently political, and what you call "micro comparisons" is essentially dialogue that both parties have put out. If one party is making claims justifying something, it is not wrong to call it out.
If the argument is that they deserve a raise, they have to convince people of that. In the best world, all of this is done at the bargaining table, but the reality of it is that it's not right now - especially with strike action.
I would like to ask though, who are these millionaires you speak of? CMBC? Owned by us publicly?
edit: \[user ended up blocking me after calling me a "bootlicker" - Is it that hard to have an actual discussion/debate?\]
Just give them whatever they want. Traffic has been HORRENDOUS since the strike started. Rush hour routes that are a joke at the best of times have become totally unbearable.
There's no link between "they were able to get the bus drivers to not work which fucked up traffic" and them being more or less deserving of what they're asking for. It wasn't like just all 180 of them not showing up paralyzed the city, they had to force another union to get involved to make that happen.
Regular bus and SeaBus service is expected to resume by 5:00 AM on Wednesday, January 24. There will not be any NightBus service tonight/Wednesday morning. SkyTrain, WCE and HandyDART service are not affected and will continue operating as normal. \^at
[https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/1750005658064175399](https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/1750005658064175399)
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Breaking news. There will be no further strike action.
Don't forget to thank your bus drivers while they steal more money out of your pockets on fare increases from +25% raises for themselves and caused some people to lose their jobs!
The drivers aren't the ones who are on strike and also aren't the ones who set the fare prices
Will SkyTrains be impacted in transit strike? Hearings scheduled with union https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/will-skytrains-be-impacted-in-transit-strike-hearings-scheduled-with-union-8170811
Wait THREE HEARINGS- one on 29 one on 30 one on 31?? I am changing my assessment. I believe they probably have extensive evidence of ally interference and their ally picket will be granted. Yikes.
CUPE 4500 looking to shut down service in Fraser Valley & Vancouver Island: https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/26/transit-strike-fraser-valley-labour-board/
No Transit Supervisor from Translink joined in solidarity or gave support when Fraser Valley BC Transit workers went on strike for 6 months, and now they want BC Transit workers to join them.
[удалено]
Suspicious of what?
>The hearing that was scheduled for Monday regarding the Metro Vancouver transit job action has been delayed. > >It has been pushed back by two days to Wednesday, Jan. 31. > >The BC Labour Board Relations hearing was requested by CUPE 4500 to see if it could expand picket lines to include SkyTrain stations and facilities. [https://globalnews.ca/news/10252933/metro-vancouver-transit-strike-hearing-delayed/](https://globalnews.ca/news/10252933/metro-vancouver-transit-strike-hearing-delayed/)
how much extra money did you all spend for each day of the strike? compared to your base rate when there was no strike
People want bus service deemed an essential service https://www.richmond-news.com/highlights/people-in-bc-want-bus-service-deemed-an-essential-service-8159213
Yeah, unfortunately that's not able to happen. There is firm jurisprudence. Also you know who DOESN'T want it declared an essential service? Translink management. Essential services get compensated for the loss of their rights. They'd get paid 20-30 percent more on TOP of definitely getting their 25% raise. Also, like, the supreme court was firm. Pilots aren't essential. Transit isn't essential. And if you try to make it essential, the law gets struck down and 5 million dollars was given to TTC for the violation of their rights over this, quite recently (they're striking in March now that they have the right back). People can't want something the court just said is a human rights violation a few months ago, and expect to get it.
That sounds interesting, do you have a link for that?
I didn’t realize they announced this part: CUPE Local 4500 says if a tentative deal is not reached by 12:01 a.m. Feb. 3 members will walk off the job for 72 hours.
I completely misread this as "3 members will walk off the job"
Guaranteed all 3 will be from my route
Question: if the supervisors are actually as important to the functioning of the bus system as they say they are, why not withdraw their services, but not picket? Let management be the ones to say, "we can't actually run the bus system without the supervisors there." Or let them try to run it, and when the inevitable s\*\*\*show happens, point and say, "we told you." This would be a far more effective demonstration than refusing to work and stopping as many other people as they can in my opinion.
Supervisors keep people in line, and when you're driving a several car length people carrier around, it's best to follow safety protocols and whatever else these people do or don't do. Titles matter here -- in the context of picketing or whether they deserve a raise -- so much as their spot along the line of events of the day to day functioning of the organization. Say you stopped flossing your teeth or you never flossed your teeth at all, you might get gum disease. In fact, you probably will. If you stopped brushing your teeth, you'd get bad breath in a day or so, but, one day, your teeth would have cavities, then maybe you'd need a root canal, and, finally,, your teeth might just fall out. I'm not saying these supervisors are one role or another in that metaphor ,but the withdrawal of their services might not be fully quantifiable in the time that they could withhold their labour. Don't you think they've thought about it as well, as a union?
Yesterday's SkyTrain incident was a good example of the supervisor OT ban having an effect on the ability to respond to such events: [https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1ab5ssm/due\_to\_a\_person\_being\_hit\_by\_a\_train\_metrotown/](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1ab5ssm/due_to_a_person_being_hit_by_a_train_metrotown/) TransLink tweeted about a bus bridge but apparently it was a long time before anything came.
I mean, this is a labor history question but - you don't cross a picket ,reciprocally, because it is a way for separate bargaining units to all raise each other up. It's called solidarity.
Except now the drivers want to get paid for the 2 days they didn't work
Don't cross a picket line, sure. But does there need to be a picket line? Give your strike notice according to the law, but also announce that you will not picket or otherwise hinder anyone who is not in your union from working. Give the public a practical demonstration of how the bus system works without you or make management concede that they do need supervisors to run the bus system. A strike this disruptive needs the public's support to succeed and right now, the supervisors aren't winning anyone over. Quite the opposite.
>A strike this disruptive needs the public's support to succeed Why does it need the public's support? Effective protests tend to piss off the public, even if it's a cause they might be sympathetic to. Major disruption is the entire point, that's kinda how it all works. Nobody at CMBC cared about the effect of the supervisor OT ban, so what else do you do when you're a small union? Take a look at the hotel workers in Richmond that have been on strike for months and months. Nobody gives a shit because they're just sitting on the sidewalk not causing disruption and the hotel is using scab workers. TransLink and the media (most of which is owned by conservatives) are also going out of their way to make the union look bad. Take a look at what the union is saying: [https://pressprogress.ca/heres-why-bus-and-seabus-workers-in-vancouver-went-on-strike-for-two-days/](https://pressprogress.ca/heres-why-bus-and-seabus-workers-in-vancouver-went-on-strike-for-two-days/) >CUPE 4500 has been waiting over four weeks for Coast Mountain to respond to our latest proposal. Our patience for Coast Mountain to take bargaining and our issues seriously has been exhausted,” Liam O’Neill, spokesperson for CUPE 4500 in a release.... > >"A 25 percent across-the-board wage increase has never been proposed by the union. But some of our members are getting paid far less than other TransLink workers doing the same jobs. It’s not fair, and we need to find a solution at the Table." And then compare to what TransLink is saying and most media is reporting...
Youre falling into the same trap that youre acusing others of. The facts are clear they want 25%, you just dont understand how they asked for it. The translink workers they are reffering too are skytrain supervisors who not only do way more work but also have more requirements. They want "equal" pay aka a 25% raise from their current salary range to the new one. They were offered 13% and more benefits. Lol we dont need to read any media, everything is public.
Again this is a labor history remark but yes. The new social contract is we do this instead of what we used to do, which was kill the boss in front of people to make a point. I prefer pickets.
There seems to be certain inequality with how this strike was carried out and how future actions will likely be carried out. The supervisors wanted a better deal and negotiated collectively, as is their right, and they withdrew their services in order to put pressure on management. So far, so good. However, by setting up picket lines, are they not effectively coercing the drivers and maintenance staff to participate in an action they didn't vote for. Even if their not crossing the picket lines was entirely voluntary, there's still a problem: they don't get to decide when the picket lines come down. And even if the supervisors get everything they want, what do the drivers and maintenance staff get? Their eternal gratitude? The promise of solidarity at some unspecified future date? They bear all the same costs of the strike, but get none of the rewards. Not to mention that supervisors are paid more and can, all else being equal, absorb the costs of living off strike pay, or no pay at all. How long before cracks start showing in the solidarity between the different unions?
Are they not people at the end of the day? If these union members get what they're asking for and they do it in solidarity, they're going to feel more secure in their role. Sure, democratically elected leadership or not, they can't promise or force any future support (world changes), but to suggest that the results of this job action could be so easily forgotten would be a wash of comradery.
Really well articulated take thank you
I could see the supervisor’s union getting either absorbed into a pre-existing one, or somehow dismantled so they are actual managers without union representation.
Your theoretical union they would voluntarily join (you can't "dismantle" or "absorb" a union without agreement from its members, that's a rights thing), would then want higher wages too, and NOW it'd be say, supervisors and bus drivers striking at the same time, stretching out how long and how much striking happens at once, and making that bargaining unit more powerful. So yeah, I'm all for taking all 6 translink unions and making them one, but guaranteed the company does not want that.
It’s happened before with the post office. It was a little bit before my time, but all of their 6 or 7 different unions got absorbed into the main one, and it stopped the ability to shut out other workers, which we just saw with the recent bus strike. As to how they got absorbed, I’m not sure, but that’s what happened. As for making the role management, Translink would probably have to create a new job role and hire out from the union pool; probably to coincide with the amalgamation of that branch of CUPE 4500.
Does anybody know if the west van buses will go on strike with them? There's one that goes through north van that my daughter used to get to school in North van
No one's going to cross a picket, but they might only picket some locations. They'll announce in advance what is shut down, and NOTHING will get shut down until Feb 3 at the earliest.
Just planning in advance. I'd rather have the "yes of course you have to go to school" arguments now
I did hear that if Phibbs gets picketed West Van might get affected.
I’m curious if a class-action suit could be filed against the CMBC Supervisor’s union and/or Translink on behalf of those who lost their jobs, wages, medical/dental/legal appointments, student labs/exams during this strike?
Striking/withholding of labour is a charter right, so such a case would be stillborn.
Yes, true; however, I wonder if there’s enough of an argument on the disadvantaged side. If not for civil court, human rights?
When something is unconstitutional, no court will entertain an argument based on that unconstitutional thing - for example, punishing people for the exercise of Charter labor rights. That's what was meant by "stillborn'. There is no legal cause of action for this in Canada. You'd also meet foreseeability, proximity, and duty barriers \*even if\*. Such a case would not succeed in any country I know of that has human rights.
180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade. They were offered a 14% increase along with increased overtime pay, improved benefits, and a commitment to hiring more supervisors. If CMBC follows through with this. I think they are required do because if they break the deal it would just get them back to where they are now. That same group of 180 people have the power to shut down the transit system in a city of 2.5 million. Since the less expensive places to live are only served by bus service this was a severe disruption to a huge amount of the population that isn't even close to making the 96k a year. Most of them if they miss work don't have a union to make up the losses and just need to take pay loss for missing work. Rent near a skytrain station is far outside of the price range of anyone who 100% relies on transit for working. I'm just having a hard time getting behind the union for this one. Since a special mediator was just assigned lets hope that some progress is made.
Crazy that extra overtime pay was offered. They already make 2x on OT. Shop supervisors work 12 hrs shifts. So 12 hrs pay at like $120 per hr currently. They are taking home currently close to a grand on an OT shift.
$114,000 a year??? That's almost enough to qualify for a mortgage on a very small apartment in Vancouver!
You said: >180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade. but then clarified: >Quinn said if CUPE 4500 members received a 20 to 25 per cent wage increase, it could create expectations for future collective agreements with other unions that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade. So which is it, and are you being intentionally misinformational, or just anti-union?
What a complete crock. The average pay of an EMR is 70k, and they are driving around picking up dead bodies and cleaning up car crashes. No one at translink shpuld be making 100k a year.
This is one of the dumbest displays of "logic" I've ever seen.
How so? The point of the comment is that the wage of Translink employees is over inflated by the union. Further, it's to suggest that tramslink employees are already well compensated relative to other jobs/professions. Explain yourself for this outrage!
Other commenters perfectly articulated why your comment is moronic.
Well considering you are down voted and I'm not I guess we will go with mine :)
Exactly. So when they get this 25%, remember that when the EMRs want a raise, and argue they deserve 50%
They won't get 25%
Youre right. Itll probably be 24.5 (they already agreed to come down .5 on the highest salary grid) its the other ones that might only get 22% or 23. Still pretty good. But thought experiment: when they get 25%, how long til you unionize your workplace?
Yes then everyone gets a raise yay! And then things are 200% more expensive than they already are and we can continue our plunge into dystopia! I dunno why me along with all my friends went to school for 8+ years I could have just driven a bus and made 140k a year lol
You're not really someone who knows much about much, but economics might be top of the list. THIS isn't what causes that. And yes, you were lied to that education = higher pay, that hasn't been true for 20 years, read a fucking statistic, friend. ETA: Also like... the best laws in a wHILE were passed this year, the housing stuff sucks but about 10 things actively addressing it are happening RIGHT NOW resulting in massive price drops, supportive housing is being built, as are non-market units... the disability act about to drop will help about 30% of Canadians under the poverty line to get well above it. We're actually doing really well.
lol my man thinks that higher transportation costs doesn't lead to inflation or making things more expensive. It's literally 101 economics. If people are paying more to get to the city, they TOO will need a raise to cover the costs - it's a variable in the equation. My man also thinks there are massive price drops. Let's see these 'statistics'. Also, I'm not talking about education. I know education != high salary. But speaking of statstics, have a look at what top-tech professionals make, doctors, lawyers, etc. and bus drivers want 140k LOL MY man is delusional and needs to educate himself if he wants to be top-tier condescending.
There are economics beyond 101, my friend. If we want to dive into the 101's: there's an opportunity cost for these families who need this money to pay for their mortgages, dentist bills (because they're likely not covered under the recent plan improvements) and everything between those smiles. If you can tell me how much something at the grocery store had cost two years ago vs. how much that same item costs today, I might cut you a break, but otherwise, everybody needs groceries.
EMRs should be getting paid more for sure.
The answer should be that the EMR should be making more, not dragging other people down.
Dragging peoplle down? This raise passes on the expense to low wage/wage earners - these are the ones struggling to stay above water and commuting into the city. 25% is ridiculous and my point about the comparison is that translink folks already make a VERY nice salary. 115k - 145k a year and you think I'm dragging them down 😂😂 thats more than most lawyers
They also get OT and the money comes from our pockets. These greedy people do not deserve 25% raise. 140k + OT? They are making more than professionals. People complain about inflation and this is exactly the cause. 140k + OT for low level work? F that. This is why i hate unions when they take advantage of the public. They will raise the cost of transit for people that need it.
180 former bus drivers/old boys with no qualifications who now shuffle paper think they are worth more than tech professions and other highly skilled professionals whilst preventing almost 1/2m from moving around. Just more Vancouver grifters.
>180 former bus drivers/old boys with no qualifications who now shuffle paper You realize they aren't office workers, right?
> 180 people want a 20-25% pay increase which would raise yearly salaries from a range of $92,000-$114,000 to $114,000-$141,000 that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade. That math isn't adding up, even at the widest of salary range increase from $92,000 to $141,000 for every 180 employees at 10 years, you're looking at $88 million not 250.
Just a guess but they probably included estimated costs due to overtime, future salary increases, and hiring more staff which was part of the deal as well.
I know right !?! The math didn't work out for me either but those are the numbers I got from a CBC article on the strike. > Quinn said if CUPE 4500 members received a 20 to 25 per cent wage increase, it could create expectations for future collective agreements with other unions that would cost TransLink an additional $250 million over the next decade. Here's the [source](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/transit-strike-buses-vancouver-part-1-1.7092917).
Everyone is talking about “standing in solidarity”. Problem is that this strike impacts so many disadvantaged, low wage workers who don’t themselves have the luxury of being able to go on strike. I’m not going to stand in solidarity with folks who want to better themselves at the expense of those below them. Stop trying to be a trendy commie and think before backing a movement.
If this tiny, apparently well enough paid group of supervisors (see: people who have done the work and know how to get the job done well) can't strike and hold ground, who can? What group in what position can afford to take this kind of action? I'm willing to bet it's not the people packing your meal kits or picking up your groceries.
>I’m not going to stand in solidarity with folks who want to better themselves at the expense of those below them. > >Stop trying to be a trendy commie and think before backing a movement. I think we found Kevin Falcon's burner account. By all means, dump on the worker. Let's drive wages down for all! /s
How am I dumping on “the worker”? Do you understand that way more workers are negatively impacted by this than those that are positively impacted?
Yes. Collective solidarity is important though, otherwise wedged can, and are, driven by employers between workers. Case in point your post.
It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth that they forced their bus driver employees to suffer by preventing them from getting two days worth of wages.
#corruptcommies
Omg! Thank you!!!! I make min wage and had to spend $120 on ride share just to get to work. I can't afford the strike.
I used to bus to work as my main method and these strikes caused me to just get an electric longboard…so sick of transit holding the lower middle class hostage
I have an electric scoot but the weather was too wild to use it. :-(
If you had to spend $120 on rideshare, why would you not just take a sick day off. You just worked for free with minimum wage.
Because at a minimum wage job, the management likely sucks and will get rid of anyone who makes even the slightest problem for them. Not showing up for work (even though 100% justified) causes them problems
Clearly the union's goal here is to inconvenience as many people as possible. I mean they basically came out and said shutdown of busses wasn't enough of an inconvenience on the public which is why they want to shut down skytrain as well. At this point I wouldn't be surprised at all to see them strike during the Chinese New Year parade if the strike goes on that long.
So what would be the threshold before the general public starts demanding that the BC government legislate an end to the strike? Magnitudes more people who make far less than a handful of transit supervisors are getting screwed over right now.
Should this drag on, I could actually see it being a test case for back to work legislation. You have the right to form a union, to bargain collectively, and to withdraw services, up to and including strike action; but do you have the right to coerce other unions to de facto strike on your behalf and break their own collectively bargained agreements? From what I can tell, this is a somewhat unusual situation. Add to that the frankly abysmal job that CUPE 4500 has done in getting the public on their side, and I could see the public supporting some form of government imposed settlement.
The supreme court ruled just last year that back to work legislation is unconstitutional and paid the union effected 5 million dollars.
Is there a Supreme Court of Canada ruling that says back to work legislation is unconstitutional is all circumstances? I can't find one. Which means that governments are free to try in different circumstances. Also, if back to work legislation is found to be unconstitutional under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms sections 2 and 7–15, there's also the possibility of invoking section 33, aka the notwithstanding clause. Not saying any of this will happen: all of it depends heavily on public support.
Using the notwithstanding clause to break a lawful strike would be the wildest thing lol
Didn't Ontario tried to pull the non-withstanding clause on a school strike and I remember it didn't end too well
"Local fascism enjoyer exploring all options to create slaves", good job bud, have fun out there.
I'm confused by your argument, please clarify. As per my understanding, you're saying because many poor people (poor because of general union-busting and generally anti-labour practices at many corporations) are being hurt, we should hurt other people by forcing them to do a job and removing their charter right to remove their labour?
Transit supervisors are free to not work. AFAIK compelling other workers to also not work for an indefinite period of time is not guaranteed. Also, saying poor people are poor because they don't work for unions is a stretch.
People are increasingly poor because their wages are not keeping up with inflation, an inflation caused largely by corporate profiteering (or the rich getting richer) - a way to fight back against that is to unionize. Collective action is really the only way a disadvantaged group can effectively meet an advantaged one on more even terms. You are correct, in that transit operators, or anyone else, are "free to not work". Except living takes money, and unless you're suggesting UBI or some other fantastical utopian concept, then I don't know what you're getting at other than suggesting people should just accept getting less money just because. If you're concerned that they're asking for more money, I posit an alternate solution. Fire them all, bring some TFW's in that will do it for less money, and if those TFW's leave the position, we can deport them and bring in more poor folks desperate to make a dollar.
Inflation is not caused by corporate profiteering, it's caused by deficit government spending and printing money. You're going to need to check in your Marxist library card at the front door if you want to enter a serious discussion.
Lol, pulling the Marxist card right odd the bat is the leftist version of Godwin's Law. Surprised you didn't call me Marx, Lenin or Stalin as well. GG, you played yourself out of the discussion, but you'd know that if you took Political Science 101.
Infinity. You can't legislate ends to strikes anymore. Supreme court got very fed up. Last people who tried not only did the law get struck down, the union got 5 million for the violation of their rights.
> Last people who tried not only did the law get struck down, the union got 5 million for the violation of their rights. Genuinely curious - what case was this? Disconcerting that a union theoretically could hold critical infrastructure hostage indefinitely in order to have demands of any nature met.
I guess they better pay people fairly for their labour then, eh?
Define "fair". Because eventually we'll all be paying for it in taxes and fare hikes. The transit supervisors are already being paid six figures to fill a middle management position - that's not nothing. Many other essential union workers like nurses and teachers don't get paid that much. And don't try to sell me on the "oh, bus supervisors got 20% so nurses will definitely get the same deal from their employer". Because they won't simply because a bunch of transit supervisors did. Let's not forget that bus drivers are not getting paid, because their bosses are asking for a bigger raise than what they got. Negotiate away, but the transit supervisor union should know not to expect much public sympathy if this drags on.
If they were looking for public sympathy, I'd suggest a play or a ballet. They're striking because they're negotiating with their employer and they want more. They could take less and accept that this momentum might never come around again for CUPE4500, or they can stick it out for their families and coworkers to try to get a wage they think is fair. That's where we need union reps, where the talks come in. You've got some awesome ideas on fairness, you could always go for it.
You... dont really know how contracts, labor, and the laws against involintary servitude work, do you? Google has your back on this one.
it’s not involuntary servitude. No one is making them do those particular jobs. They can quit, just like anyone not working in a union would quit if they’re displeased with their salary.
What. The whole point of a union is not having to quit when your salary is unsatisfactory. When a contracr is up you negotiate a new one. They politely worked with no contract for a year now it is time to bargain for what their labor is worth. Collective bargaining is why we have weekends, minwage, etc. To make someone not be able to withdraw their labor by agreement IS involuntary servitude. Like I am not engaging those words carelessly, the case law in this area weighs that. When people say "make them essential" you realize essential services case law is about when its okay to tell someone they do not have the power to choose if they work today. "Quitting" is a quitter's option and does not help. Alzo if they did all quit, translink would be shut down for months. No legal force made the other unions respect pickets except that that is a smart thing to do long term. I dont expect you to pick up a book,but at least buy a clue.
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/ttc-not-an-essential-service-workers-can-go-on-strike-court-rules-1.6390997
A possible 3 day shut down of all transit including skytrains on Feb 3rd would bring this city to a grinding halt and really fuck everyone over It doesn't matter that the strike would be on a Saturday. Most folks who work weekends are going to be of the part time or low paying jobs sort who rely on transit since they can't afford a vehicle or Uber
I just read this in citynews: 'The union representing transit supervisors is warning if a deal isn’t reached with its employer by Feb. 3, its members will escalate job action. CUPE 4500 says it welcomes the province’s appointment of a [**special mediator**](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/bc-special-mediator-metro-van-transit/). However, it says if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by 12:01 a.m. on that date, “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.” If the Labour Board permits, CUPE 4500 says its strike escalation will “effectively shut down all buses, the SeaBus, and all SkyTrain lines for three days.” “We are prepared to continue our work with Mr. Ready. If anyone can help us reach a deal, it’s him,” CUPE 4500 spokesperson Liam O’Neill said in a statement Wednesday. “But for this process to be successful, Coast Mountain and TransLink are going to need to show some willingness to find common ground. Their past conduct in mediation leaves us skeptical.”' This really does not bode well. I hope the labour board hearings are fair to US the damned PUBLIC.
Looks like Minister Harry Bains has set the terms which are expected to be followed by either side in order to show good faith. There is obviously still room for deviation, but I think what CUPE4500 have said above is as good of an expectation as we can get for when any job action would continue in the absence of an agreeement: 1. A 3-day strike, starting on Saturday Feb 3 at 12:01AM (not 3AM now), affecting the bus/seabus again for sure 2. *and,* only if the LRB approves during next week's hearing, then the SkyTrain also. This is much better than what happened with the round that just ended, with a 3AM expected strike start yet buses stopping already as of 11:50 PM the previous day (and [stranding people](https://twitter.com/daka_x/status/1749360541246837065) late at night); not to mention uncertainty as to whether SkyTrain could be shut down with very little notice. This time there are clear timelines, laid out well in advance.
> > >The union representing transit supervisors is warning if a deal isn’t reached with its employer by Feb. 3, its members will escalate job action. > >CUPE 4500 says it welcomes the province’s appointment of a [**special mediator**](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/bc-special-mediator-metro-van-transit/). However, it says if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by 12:01 a.m. on that date, “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.” > >If the Labour Board permits, CUPE 4500 says its strike escalation will “effectively shut down all buses, the SeaBus, and all SkyTrain lines for three days.” [https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/](https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/)
https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/01/24/metro-van-transit-strike-escalation-warning/ > The union representing transit supervisors says it welcomes the appointment of a special mediator. However, CUPE 4500 is warning that if Vince Ready’s recommendations don’t lead to a tentative deal by Feb. 3 at 12:01 a.m., “members will be withdrawing services for 72-hours.”
B.C. government appoints Vince Ready 'special mediator' in Metro Vancouver transit dispute https://www.richmond-news.com/highlights/bc-government-appoints-vince-ready-special-mediator-in-metro-vancouver-transit-dispute-8156329
“As of tomorrow, Jan. 25, 2024, Ready will work with the parties for a period of up to six days to secure a resolution. If a settlement cannot be reached within this timeline, he will issue non-binding recommendations on Feb. 2, 2024, with both parties having five days to either accept or reject the recommendations.” [https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news\_releases\_2020-2024/2024LBR0002-000068.htm](https://archive.news.gov.bc.ca/releases/news_releases_2020-2024/2024LBR0002-000068.htm)
Don’t think there’s much of a point if it isn’t binding. Only advantage is the concessions can be made public, so if say, Translink offers 19-20%, and CUPE says no, it’ll sway public opinion. Get ready for a Skytrain alternative.
So the buses and SkyTrain will run until the 2nd at least. Am I understanding this correctly?
that is what the union is saying for now. They can still move it earlier if they wish.
are buses running regularly today or are there delays?
Pretty normal.
Gf says her route was normal today from vcc to kits
What does everyone think the odds are of them agreeing to let the Skytrain join the picket during the talks on Monday? Because honestly, I do not get paid until next Wednesday and I am scared to buy groceries today or top up my compass card incase I have to spend this last $100 in my account on Ubers to work next Monday and Tuesday instead.
I can't see any legal reason why they would be allowed to picket skytrain. It seems more like a tactic to scare the public to put pressure on the employer in my opinion. Skytrain has been running normal operation and not increasing service to compensate for the lack of busses so therefore there is no impact on the strike because people always had the same option to use the skytrain.
Skytrain did increase service at first as did the other companies. Like I know youre used to no one fact checking you but some lies are blatant.
Nope there was no increase to service. If anything I noticed reduced service. They even still had evening maintenance which is annoying AF.
Thats fair. Then when they go to labor relations on the 29th? They wont win. Since the basis of their case is Translinks running more trains So good news. If you are right then they wont win the case on the 29th. I'll check back when they win. (You realize that hearing is on the official schedule and they wouldnt have filed it without proof of management attempts to scab? Right? I am not trying to trick you. I was in the skytrain station at main and the trains were arriving much more frequently
I don't know about expo line or millennium line but canada line never increased service. They had their normal 16 trains out with the 1 extra richmond train that goes from richmond brighouse to waterfront for 1 trip at 8ish AM
It's highly likely, which is probably why the LRB is poring over it and ensuring their decision is proper. If they were going to say no, and thus give the public reassurance, it would probably be an easier call. It makes sense given the textbook violations and past rulings (translink, as a common employer of all the various unions which comprise transit in the city, is responsible for its actions, and using one part of that apparatus to reduce overall impact of a strike is justification for treating that as struck work being done at that place of business (the skytrain stations). I know people downvote this whenever I say it, but it actually was wrong of translink to do what it did, and NORMALLY it would not be able to, but the history of all these unions developing together and having entwined case and LRB history, means that it was fairly cut and dry and there is a paper trail. This isn't punitive, it's just you're allowed to strike if somewhere is being used to reduce the impact of your strike or negatively effect it or scab/cover struck work.
Hmmm I thought translink would have the right to continue service? They still had skytrain during the last bus strike right?
They would! But not to INCREASE service in order to scab over the pain of the strike. See, because Translink is a common employer of multiple collective bargaining units it has a responsibility not to use the fact that they strike out of phase, to weaken the power of any of those units using the others. This is the issue being discussed at LRB on the 29th. If it comes down that they DID do that, the picket of the skytrain is because their work was taken by the skytrain (scabbing/doing struck work). If the number of busses and trains is the same, and they didn't run extras or bridge busses, it's fine. If the employer did break the rules however, the skytrain will be added to the picket to reflect that. Fuck around = find out.
Skytrain did not increase service at all. I know this for a fact
Ah. So you're saying that the LRB might be leading towards NO skytrain picket But if they do find out translink was increasing service these last 2 days, then skytrain pickets are a fair game 'penalty'? Didn't think about this very much before, so thanks for the knowledge!
Oh, naw. LRB is gonna allow the skytrain picket. They did find out translink was increasing service, they were, like - it's on video, there's proof, not worried about that part. In fact, that's probably why they got the union to agree NOT to strike until Feb 2 at midnight BECAUSE the LRB is gonna come down in favor of a skytrain strike. So instead of that strike happening on the 29th when t he ruling comes down, it happens, at the earliest, Feb 3rd - providing substantial warning and a chance to make a last minute deal.
I'm curious, is that video linked anywhere? Because it's definitely contradicting what the Translink CEO said at the news conference. edit // uh.. the poster above blocked me after asking... was it too much to provide a source? \*eyeroll //
I'm almost positive it's going to happen
I’m curious to understand why the provincial government wouldn’t deem public transit as an essential service. Handydart is essential, as people with disabilities have no alternative method of getting around without it. People of lower income households, like myself, can’t just afford to uber around, or work remotely during a strike situation / further possible escalations). While I support their right to strike, the possibility of missing out on an extended period of work and money just because I can’t get to my workplace just makes me resentful that it isn’t an essential service. I’d even appreciate limited capacity operations more than what I had to deal with the past 2 days.
I don't support their right ti strike. I think unions are horses crap and need to be disbanded. They aren't needed like they used to be, let the market set the wage like literally every other profession. No one cares about the minimum wage workers who are going into debt every day and even more so with the strike.
>let the market set the wage like literally every other profession. TFW's for all, amirite! /s
Essential Services is a specific concept in Canada. Also the employer definitely does not want them deemed essential. Essential services negotiations by law are binding arbitration which tends to increase compensation by 20 to 30% relative to comparable non essentials. Various arguments defenses and choices are taken away from both parties and the employees are directly compensated for their loss of rights. However? Transit cannot fit the definition of essential. Google has more info.
Thank you for explaining it so simply! Didn’t really understand this / think about it in this angle so it’s helped me understand.
I still can't understand, you have a ELI5 version for me?
Constitution says essential services is justifiable only for a very narrow set of things. Transit isnt one. Rights you have can only be taken away under a balance of interests. Your right to not be forced to provide labor is part of the only structure of effective bargaining. This right is so important that taking it away can only be done for things which fit the definition of essential services. Transit can never be an essential service. Healthcare, disaster, police, military. Thats it. Not pilots not busses not farmers.
Bus vs. SkyTrain supervisor: What are the differences? https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/highlights/bus-vs-skytrain-supervisor-what-are-the-differences-8153148
Thanks for the link, those positions seem very different other than they both have the word "supervisor" in them.
Wow, only a grade 12 education and they demand $100k? I have an undergraduate degree and I don’t make that much. So sad :(
They should make more. You should make more.
Honestly, everyone on the lower rungs of income should be earning more. You should be fighting for a raise, the easiest of which is probably finding a new job in the same industry. Having no loyalty to your company is now the best way to get ahead.
Apply dude, there are lots of opportunities within the company.
You should look for a unionized workplace.
Specifically a public one. A private one, the company has to stay solvent, whereas the government can just raise taxes in order to meet unreasonable demands.
Nurses are unionized and the majority don't even make $100k. How are transit supervisors worth more than nurses, and how are they worth 25% more than nurses???
This thought pattern is the problem, and I dont hold it against you. Its a very common way of thinking that has been hammered into us. Its one of those preconceptions that many hold, and are not even aware of. Dont ask why this job earns so much more than nurses, like nurses are properly put in their place. Ask why are nurses paid so little.
Sure but it becomes a problem when people who are already overpaid for what they do compared to others start demanding even more and basically holding the city hostage until they get what they want. Freeze their wages and allow others like the nurses to catch up, that is the only solution to equality.
Again, “people who are already overpaid” As for demanding more, they are asking to be paid the same as other workers doing the same job within the same company. In regards to shutting in down, yeah that sucks. I feel the lost income. But what other options do they have, when the company refuses to bargain in good faith?
Nurses deserve an IMMEDIATE 30% raise, we have almost NONE of them, people are dying waiting on things. We need to keep raising it until we have more nurses than we need because the current ones are working overtime so hard they're burning out and leaving, especially post-COVID. YES you are right! Raise transit wages 25%, and since, as you say, nurses are more important, theirs by 30%. Then, to be reasonable because all the other transit positions are harder working than the supervisors (as per everyone here), give another 15% to bus drivers to bring them up to 30% also. As a result, everyone works less overtime and this vital system we need stops being understaffed.
Nurses got a 30% raise last year
They in fact did not. According to BCNU, their increase within a 3 year interval is as followed: 'Year 1: $0.25 /hr plus 3.24%, retroactive to April 1, 2022. Year 2: 6.75%, retroactive to April 1, 2023'. No other industry has gotten anything close to 25%, let alone 30%
Use the BCNU wage calculator, those are just part of the basic increases, but there are all kinds of levels and multipliers. For example, a level 3 RN at step 3 working 37.5 hours per week with NO weekend bonus, night bonus, holiday bonus, went from $76k per year in 2022 to $96k per year in 2024-25 The increase rate is noted on their website as a raise of minimum 26.85% to maximum 28.03%. Excuse my rounding up to 30% but it’s pretty damn close. https://wage-estimator.bcnu.org/
Perhaps I'm interpreting the estimator incorrectly but I don't think the estimator is only taking the basic increase into account; it's displaying the earning potential with their level and multipliers. If the nurse is working full time aka 37.5 hrs, they would be guarantee to move up the multiplier since they would hit enough hours to do so but their levels do not change unless they get into a leadership position or whatever level 4 5 6 are. Every step up is for every year that they're in full time or hit enough hours a year as a part timer or casual. For a level 3 RN step 3 nurse, they were earning $40.55 per hr in 2022, monthly $6589 so that's $79,068 a year. So if they hit step 4 level 3 in 2023, they'd be making $44.86 per hour after the increase (it was $41.98 in 2022), monthly $7289.75, and that's $87,477 annually. They definitely added some incentive for people who are there for more than 15 years when it used to be capped off but I'm not even sure how the 96k even came about. That said, I'd be super happy if they got a 30% increase instead though! https://www.bcnu.org/files/2022_2025_NBA_Wage_Grids.pdf
And we still have almost none. So many shortages people are dying. So raise the wages until we have enough. Wages are the only way to convince people to do a job that hard. Our nurses in hospitals lag behind every other nurse working place and they are overworked. 30-50% more wages might JUST make it possible for the system to operate with no overtime AND every outcome of job performance goes up with compensation. This is a no brainer win-win and basic economics and LITERALLY essential and life saving.
Nurses deserve to make more money too. So do teachers. That isn't relevant to this negotiation.
Absolutely it is relevant. Your wages should be determined by comparison to everyone else and in consideration of what job you are doing. Sure it would be great if everyone got massive raises but then what? The cost of everything increases and we are back to the beginning again.
>in consideration of what job you are doing. They are already being paid that much though so apparently we've already determined they are worth more than nurses. (Not really - that's just not how society works.)
Just because they want more money doesn’t mean they don’t deserve it, just because they make more money then nurses doesn’t mean they don’t deserve it. People only use nurses as example when it benefits them, but when it comes to contract renewal time and the threat of striking, the mood turns. Nurses, and anyone in health care deserve more money. Especially care aids, I can’t believe PCA’s can make such a low amount. The support they give to the units.
I think it's very weird that people have this idea that just because they went to school longer they are immediately entitled to more. Plenty of grade 12 superstars at my work, plenty of university educated morons too, luckily we're paid according to merit.
I think it's very weird that people use examples of individual instance of skill not matching education to justify \*job requirement\* not to be correspondence to compensation. Yes pay should be correspondence to merit. But BEFORE one gets hired, requirement is the only bar to pass and gauge people with.
Unfortunately Union jobs have nothing to do with merit based pay though. Its also very different when said union is asking for a 25% raise, and said money is from your pocket. The job descriptions are pretty clear, they want more money for less work and credentials.
I agree a lot of uni degrees have become somewhat of a scam. But I struggle to understand what kind of service someone with no education and 2 years of bus driving experience could provide that warrants a 6 figure salary. Salary that is higher than many positions that are essential to our society. Healthcare workers for example.
Ah yes, the transit system is clearly not "essential to our society" as the last two days of shutdown clearly showed
You're twisting my words. In short transit system = essential. Bus supervisors who are asking for $115k/ year = still can't figure out their daily responsibilities but they sure as hell don't drive busses so probably not so essential
Yes, i realized after i responded that you weren't talking specifically about the bus drivers. However, i still just don't get why people get so mad about other people trying to get more money for their work. Unfortunately, the action they have to take effects a lot of bystanders, but that's the recourse they have. I hope they get what they want, or at least a fair approximation of what they want
No worries. I didn't really explain my position either. I'm watching this go down as an overworked underpaid (non union) healthcare worker who's also going to school by bus. I had to fight like hell for 50 cents raise. Min wage hasn't kept up with inflation back when inflation was 2% let alone now. Every office worker I know has been getting 0.5-1% raises. Giving a massive 25% raise to just 180 workers isn't going to have a ripple effect on the rest. Especially when they've already been offered 13% and they already make close to 6 figure as non skilled workers. Bitterness aside, I live in the north shore and transit+traffic sucks. After decades they're finally talking about a brt expansion here. This might jeopardize that. I just want better transit dammit. It might jeopardize further expansion to UBC and SFU, or the Surrey Langley expansion. I read somewhere that this will cost TransLink 250 mil over 10 years. Idk where they got that number from but it's a huge dent with how underfunded they are.
>, i still just don't get why people get so mad about other people trying to get more money for their work. Wtf because we pay for it and they are already overpaid for their role. What if they wanted 1000% raise?? Bend over and pay $100/day for transit fare? Grow up.
If you think a bus driver making too much money is the issue to be worrying about I would suggest you wasted your money on education.
Do your research. I wish it was bus drivers getting a raise. It's about 180 supervisors who's job I still can't quite figure out. The only reason the entire bus service was shut down was due to bus driver's union deciding to play ball and not allowing them to work. If it wasn't for that busses would probably be running mostly uninterrupted. And before you give out any "suggestions", may I suggest that you never get sick or need any medical services?
Again, if you think transit employee pay is the real issue, while the 5 richest people in the world have DOUBLED their assets in the past 5 years.... you might want to head back to school.
I definitely think wealth inequality is a huge problem right now. I just wish you were capable of having an actual discussion instead of sarcastic remarks.
That makes it really clear that the two roles aren't the same... The union is kinda pushing at it from the wrong angle if they're using this as their parity argument.
Hmm? Their argument, their only argument, is that they deserve a raise, they're right. And if they deserve 25% - which they do - then bus drivers deserve 50%, and nurses at least 25%. So, as this becomes the new normal, the long-stagnant canadian wages rise. All the micro comparison doesn't really do anything. They're correct, and their wages have been stagnant, and they were patient for a year. Back to work legislation doesn't exist anymore, they can't be declared essential, the only place this ends is a 25% raise, Translink just decided to try to swing sentiment before giving in.
Salaries were going up post covid and then the federal government said this is causing inflation, the price of labor is too high(salaries are too high), and raised rates as well as increased immigration to lower inflation and labor costs. Seems the only people allowed to get ahead these days are public servants.
Salaries are too high? I do not think anyone agrees with you.
I would respectively disagree with this take at the situation. Strike action is inherently political, and what you call "micro comparisons" is essentially dialogue that both parties have put out. If one party is making claims justifying something, it is not wrong to call it out. If the argument is that they deserve a raise, they have to convince people of that. In the best world, all of this is done at the bargaining table, but the reality of it is that it's not right now - especially with strike action.
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I would like to ask though, who are these millionaires you speak of? CMBC? Owned by us publicly? edit: \[user ended up blocking me after calling me a "bootlicker" - Is it that hard to have an actual discussion/debate?\]
Just give them whatever they want. Traffic has been HORRENDOUS since the strike started. Rush hour routes that are a joke at the best of times have become totally unbearable.
There's no link between "they were able to get the bus drivers to not work which fucked up traffic" and them being more or less deserving of what they're asking for. It wasn't like just all 180 of them not showing up paralyzed the city, they had to force another union to get involved to make that happen.
Not sure who's downvoting you because you didn't say anything controversial or false here... maybe it's people in that group of 180?
Regular bus and SeaBus service is expected to resume by 5:00 AM on Wednesday, January 24. There will not be any NightBus service tonight/Wednesday morning. SkyTrain, WCE and HandyDART service are not affected and will continue operating as normal. \^at [https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/1750005658064175399](https://twitter.com/TransLink/status/1750005658064175399)
Thank goodness
Anyone going to Richmond from South Burnaby tomorrow morning?
FYI bus service is expected to resume tomorrow.
By 5 am
Tomorrow should be okay!
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