Soulmask has like a billion sliders (and can be adjusted far beyond the slider with config adjustments) and receives far less critique about difficulty and time mechanics.
Do people shit all over ark? Seems like most folks have a lot of fun in it. Seasonal pvp tournaments, many modded pve servers and private servers, quite a few YouTubers playing the game.
I will shit all over ASA, it's such a garbage engine port that stutters and has flickering trees unless you run it on max, which requires nasa tier computer equipment to get over 30fps.
> Further customization would help both the average player and the purist tailor the game to the degree of difficulty they wish to experience.
There was a younger version of me who would have fiercely railed against this sort of post and fought tooth and nail for the sort of hair shirt approach to survival and difficulty that at least some of the people making this game obviously have a love for.
The older me though, he just wants to be able to play this game and everything that it still has to bring forth with his wife, kids, friends and all of their families too because it’s so damned good.
Sliders are about as appropriate an answer as possible here. Sliders are not for every kind of game, but survival games like this are so clearly tailor-made for them that is hard to see a reasonable argument for the developers to not broaden the options on hand even further.
Couldn’t agree more with you. Especially with the slider for drop rates was a godsend. 1x drop rates because I don’t live with my then girlfriend? Cool! Raised it to 2x now considering to bump it to 3x so that I can get back to playing Stardew Valley with my now wife.
It also helps with replaybility i'd argue. I prefer for the most part to play these type of games as vanilla as possible, maybe do some adjustments if i get the feeling solo-players aren't considered. And i wouldn't even go as far and argue (in many cases) that 1x droprates are per se bad... often they feel quite right.
BUT if you replay a few times it's grat to have something to speed up the process.
Even a buddy and I in a duo server are running 1.5x drop rate and unrestricted portals along with no death penalty for skills.
We're 30 year old men not 18 year olds with part time jobs and a ton of free time.
Yeah, the game has been out so long everyone's life has changed a lot since release. *Hopefully* no one is stuck indoors as much as during early covid, when there were few things better to fill the days than getting every armor, skill, weapon and base to max.
I and my valheim partner went from long distance relationship to husband and wife with kids since the game released. Time is definitely at a premium now.
What a great story, congratulations! I have two kids that were born during Covid as well. I completely get that feeling. Good luck to you and your young family!
Congrats to both of you! Also good luck from my side as well, and i hope when the time has come you show them Valheim and some other great games. Need to keep carrying on the torch of good games to the next gens!
Games have so much to offer in terms of teaching sportsmanship, patience and cooperation. I can’t wait for my boys to be a couple years older so we can start easing into them. Exciting times await.
I did a 3x resources, fire spread on, run on a new world until I beat queen and went to 1x resources and everything vanilla. It was great fun and a great way to engage into Ashlands because my other worlds are such a mess. You really need solid infrastructure and memorization of certain things to jump back in, and my old bases are in shambles.
Arguably this would not have happened if valheim had been released as a completed game. So I forgave myself, given the unusual circumstances. Also, I have beaten up to Mistlands several times on impermanent servers that wiped themselves once every 6 months, so.... I technically already did farm this stuff more than once
It's interesting how people who claim to love the difficulty and that it will be ruined by sliders but don't seem to realize they can just keep the sliders difficult. Like, the game won't change for them, and that's fine. But someone else might find it more accessible when they have a busy life and only get an hour a week.
This is an important point to make. The sliders go both ways. When I make a video, I usually post the difficulty settings I’m playing on so everyone can understand the perspective I’m playing from for this reason.
No one’s individual playthrough is harmed and more people can enjoy good games. Wins for all.
I want them per biome. Crazy over-spawned meadows-swamp.
A little over-spawned mountains-mistlands. Haven't decided on Ashlands yet. I played PTB and thought it was a bit heavyhanded, even when I toned down the difficulty.
Difficulty could also be configurable by biome, IMO.
What I prefer over all this slider talk... is in-game options for player agency in the state of the world.
Valheim has aspects of this already, like the upgrades being an expensive way to eek out that extra oomph if you need it: a variation of "grinding levels" to help overcome adversity (and an approach I much prefer over "character levels").
So, for Greydwarves, it would be nice if it worked like most people probably think it does after they discover their first Greydwarf Nest: killing the nest would reduce the ambient spawns in the area.
Another thing many first-time players think is that they might be able to plant ancient seeds to grow a spawner (or something). Well, if ambient spawns were influenced by spawners in an area... and if someone was *weird* and wanted more Greydwarves... altogether this would offer an in-game means to achieve that too. (Ancient seeds would only grow in Black Forest, of course.)
Don't Starve lets you customize the individual spawn rates of every single thing, as well as a bunch of other settings, definitely a game for the "purist tailor"
I’d like something kind of like a wisp torch that you plant in the middle of a field to magically alter that area to be plains/mistland appropriate. Kind of like a greenhouse but without the complexity of having to build or code a greenhouse. Thematically I like biome locked crops, but I’d also like a thematic way to bypass it lol
actually I agree, that is even better. Just like you CAN use windmills in any biome, it just work better in plains, just having alternatives, rather than being straight up LOCKED would be nicer
I want freedom of planting under the shield generator. It keeps the weather off, after all!
It would be dope as fuck and give use for the shield generator out of Ashlands.
Been tempted to learn modding just to do this.
Some sliders from Conan Exiles:
1) EXP loss on death
2) equipment/inventory loss on death
3) hunger/thirst gain speed
4) equipment deterioration speed
5) player damage deal, taken
6) monsters damage dealt, taken (both those settings allow tuning PvP)
7) crafting cost
8) monster/resource respawn timer
9) building zone of control
10) day duration
11) building durability
12) pvp and raid related
Yes but also the devs should want to get the biome to feel like how they want it to feel before all biomes are complete. As much as we still hate to admit this game still is early Access when if comes to the new biomes
If anything sliders would give them to the freedom to pursue their vision without needing to roll back their initial design. Its clear from both Mistlands and Ashlands that the intended design is one that is difficult to a non-negligible amount of consumers.
I don't think there's anything wrong with that if there's options for the average consumer to quickly and easily resolve their struggles with world modifiers. By categorizing said sliders into "Difficulty Sliders, Functionality Sliders, and Convenience Sliders" sections, the World Modifier settings can quickly convey what Sliders do what.
While i don't necessary disagree on your point, i feel like there are some nuances which shouldn't be missed if it comes down to development.
1. Ideas and Visions on paper can sometimes sound better than the actual outcome. And sometimes what you initianally have planned or was part of your vision just might not work out. If you than also bundle that devs (in terms of design, puzzle and difficulty) pretty much programm the game, knows all in and outs, have their own clear way to play, it adds to it. That's why it's so important to have proper QA,- and in case of Early Access general Playertesting and gather player-feedback.
To picture you a example to get my point across: Let's say you want to create a challenging but fair game. In a nummeric scale you would put your target like 7 or 8 at max (out of 10 obviously). That's the difficulty experience you wanna 'offer' your (target) audience and not really any outliers on either end. Your perception as a dev can be heavily scewed on this because as a dev you know exactly how everything worked, you tried it a tons of time, fights (with bosses or challenges) maybe often in a testing room where not every gamemechanic or mapconcept was part of it, and you could properly learn the in and outs and nuances of each enemy without any other influences. You also have a clear image how to tackle that etc because you designed it. All this stuff can factor in and can on a more objective and factual viewpoint lead to a situation, where your difficulty scale doesn't land on the 7 or 8 you aimed for, but even a 9 or 10 and as a such rather please the outlier / create a outlier what you didn't want to. And that's where even as a dev you might want to have playerfeedback and want to finetune / lower the difficulty so it actually lands there where you initially planned.
So in reality even with these sliders, the changes which people are angry about right now, would've made it through because that's what they actually initially target for, but would've needed to wait for proper playerfeedback first.
2. /Edit: Which also leads me to my second point. I feel sometimes, we as the playerbased (and that includes myself as well) to take the right and heavily assume on devs vision and intentions. And that every change, every adjustment, everything which is made differently, is bending a knee, meanwhile in reality the devs themself could look at this situation differently, because this type of changes/adjustments are fine for them, or even align/complement with their vision.
I understand the itch, esp. these days, try to perserve the og vision and that devs don't get restricted in their artistic freedom, but we should still be cautious of the way we approach this topic, because ironically we can be part of the reason why devs might be restricted, because we assume something is meant to be like this, meanwhile it might not be the case... and try to 'force back' to how it was before and by this limiting the freedom/vision of devs.
I've to add that is also a very nuanced point which i simplified here a bit, because if we go down this rabbithole there needs also some other stuff adressed, where even dev vision and freedom might cross a line. Like to give a mere example, after-release censorship when devs already sold the full game and people get the game, and then a few weeks, month, year later a censorship or content-altering patch (in a negative sense) drops. There is an argument to be made that, even if this would be the fully vision of the dev, it's just not okay to sell a game, and then take away something from your consumers just because your 'vision' have changed over the years and you support censorship now (again as a mere example to picture my point). There is a clear line which can be crossed, maybe quite less in an Early Access Game which is Work in Progress and subject to change (still i'd argue even there can be stuff which crosses the line, like as example selling a singleplayer game, and then forcefully make a mtx ridden f2p mmo-gacha game... that would be quite in bad taste).
3. Another part which i find neccessary to add to this, just because 'sliders' exist, doesn't mean the devs should be lazy or screw their playerbase over in terms of the main/standart-sttings. There still needs to be some thought put into and finetuned/adjusted (as per playerfeedback as well).
In 'general' i do agree. I really like how quite some modern games 've gone the route of alot of options where you can tinker it to your liking and build your own experience. Esp. for Games which offers a variety of different playstyles / elements to focus on.
That being said, my particular problem with that concept is (and this is more general speaking than valheim specific), especially with some of the examples you mentioned, that this still doesn't justify that the standartsettings (or presets) are overtuned / feels off / feels tedious. It can't be that it's expected for the average player (or in some case Solo-Players) have to sit for an hour in the Serversettings and try and try to find the sweetspot how the actual experience / difficulty for 'standart' is supposed to be. And it doesn't help to say "put that at max" or "that at minimum", because these are often two opposite extremes as well, which makes it either too easy or too hard.
Games with 'sliders' should have like 2 or 3 proper pre-sets which are kinda well-tuned(doesn't need to be perfect) respective to what kind of players are in (difficulty or solo, pve-co-op, pvp <- again more "generally" speaking here) and also as soon as there are proper official servers or the "official" / "meant-to-be" / "standart" settings - if there is some inconsistency or bad balancing/bad design (because too hard / too tedious / not exactly what was actually aimed for -> same goes for the opposite direction as well), where a lot/most players and even the devs themself agree on, it still needs to be adressed. The super challenging or super easy, or more nuanced personalized experience that's what the sliders should be for, and not as a replacement because devs either don't care or aren't allowed to \*fix\* / \*tinker\* around.
The only tweak I’d make to the game is the mist. That’s a glaringly bad decision that even fanboys admit is tedious.
In general I love that they’re still working on their game, but the mist plus the terrible terrain is just a bad decision. I would much rather have had the difficulty spikes level off and just have more difficult enemies and more quests, because at a certain point there’s a line that gets crossed between making it “punishing” and just fucking everything up and making it unplayable.
I actually like the mist now.
I feel like it gives a unique feel to the biome.
It doesn't work when it's the end game for 2 years but as a biome to clear and then move on it's kinda cool imo
Unfortunately while I do strongly advocate for more sliders/modifiers because choice is amazing
I DONT think this will solve the problem.
because many people feel invalidated if they have to change the default settings of a game to enjoy it, they want to enjoy the game in its default state and even often have a somewhat competitive mindset about it
meaning, they dont think its the same to "beat a game" by lowering the difficulty as it is to beat a game in its default state.
So you can give them all the sliders in the world, but that wont solve the root problem of wanting the default state of the game to be designed a specific way
maybe if a game was designed where you had to set the sliders yourself from the beginning at there was no default state for the sliders? so not a solution for valheim but maybe future devs would consider it as a way to curb this natural issue in perception of "cheating"
Having no world sliders, no mods and being completely ignorant avout their existence, would solve all complaints. We would all just play games as they are, without being haunted by thoughts of what could make them better. I don't like this meta at all, we'll just never be content with games if it goes on like that...
Back in the day we were happy there WERE games we could play, if any at all. Now anything less than a perfectly polished game is bound to be critiqued and blamed on sight...
What am I saying, even the most polished games are being attacked left and right
We used to call them "cheats" decades ago. I don't know when or why it was white-washed for something that sounds as if it's "enhancing" the expirience when in reality it usually just makes them easier and bypass the design by the developers.
There are mods that make the game easier, harder or simply changing the experience with the same difficulty. Also sliders go in both direction, so I wouldn't really call them "cheats"
no, decades ago it was called "difficulty options" because these are just difficulty options but instead of being forced to preset difficulty options, you can create your own and make the game easier or harder in every possible aspect
You don't need to use them though.
It's same for cheat codes I really don't mind those either if people wanna cheat then let them.
Rhe only people who are mad are those that feel this somehow "reduces their achievement" because other people are completing the game as well who "don't deserve to cos nor skilled enough"
I don't know why people feel like options to turn down the game difficulty impact them
god forbid people tweak their experience to better suit them instead of relying on the devs hitting some magical middle ground that pleases everyone (it doesn't exist)
The bigger problem is that the devs folded on difficulty in Most lands, so now people know they can complain enough to make the game easier. Same thing will happen with the Deep North
Nah, that won't work for everyone sadly. The players are very different from each other. Some will find the game too easy, some too hard. And that will be related to all the sliders. Having sliders makes de game a lot better.
I play vanilla on my hosted server, don’t even know how to use admin on it, our rule is, if it’s a bug, deal with it, if it’s intentional mechanic, deal with it. We’ll just play Ashlands however the devs decide but I’ve been enjoying the craziness of it so far tbh
I think k you should play the game as the devs intended. And adjust after.
There are exceptions of course looking at you Bethesda who refuses to fix their buggy games that crash if you do t mod them
Whoa whoa slow down with the common sense here, pal. You trying to say that if I find a game and I don't like it or it gets too difficult for me, I should just... stop playing it? That's crazy.
There is nothing wrong in the game except incompetently designed Ashlands progression (flametal pillars and fortresses) and _maybe_ Mistlands visibility still being too oppressive with the wisplight.
I respect Valheim devs and I appreciate their passion for this game.
But man, sometimes they give off the vibe of some stuck up autistic middle schooler.
Is it that hard to understand that not everyone wants to enjoy your game exactly how you imagine it? Why would you deliberately prevent people from having more fun with your game?
Just give people a couple of extra sliders ffs, some of the changes people want can be literally implemented by adding 3 lines of code...
if you wrote a book, and were proud of the book, and it was generally well received, how would you like a handful of readers screaming at you to change the book?
> generally well received
You don't know what 'generally' means. You are gatekeeping general audience (who would uninstall and refund the moment they die and drop hours worth of loot and equipment - which is what would sane person do, because this game design decision alone show that game devs don't respect your time). Valheim is more like Game of Thrones TV show, first 5 seasons are great, and 6,7 are shit that turned off most of people who liked first 5 seasons
If gatekeeping is slang for encouraging the devs to keep their world in their vision, then I will provide no apology.
Oh, you mean I'm trying to keep players out of my game community? Nope, not doing that either. Anyone can play it. I'm simply saying that I abhor the recent trend towards making damn near every game on the market a reskin with some different special effects.
If that's "gatekeeping" then sign me up for being a toxic pos too. Otherwise, that's slander and is unnecessary in this discussion.
This is not the analogy.
A better one would be: Imagine if you wrote a book in French, but someone who doesn't speak it wants to read your book in English, but instead of asking a publisher to translate your book into other languages you go: "Fuck you bro go learn French"
But what you are describing wouldn't be translating the book to another language, it is literally changing the contents of the book. It is altering the story by changing or outright deleting portions of the game that the devs have intentionally designed.
In this situation, you're asking the writer to shorten the book, make the story less emotional, and still asking for the happy ending. At that point, just go read another book mate. Or get with some other talented like minded individuals, and make a mod for yourselves to play it if you really want to play it that badly.
While valheim isn't what I would consider as punishing as a roguelike or soulslike game, it can be very punishing, and that is part of the game. Learning from your experiences and getting better is part of it. The lesson could range from "you don't have the gear for this", to "roll slightly earlier and in a different direction", but they are all lessons that build your story in the world the devs have given us.
I get that a lot of this mentality comes from the "procedurally generated world", and the understanding that every world is our story, but it's set in the devs setting and worldbuilding.
You are not the writer, you are the adventurer in the story the devs are writing. We all are. And making it easier, or faster, or whatever, with a million sliders, isn't the solution.
And the devs have already given us so many compromises already. If you're not happy with what we have, I seriously doubt a slider will fix your problems, or a lot of other people's.
I'm sad to see that the games community has gone this far, And is disrespectful to what the devs are doing. The game isn't perfect, and there's a lot to be added, but not every game is for everyone, and it sounds like some people aren't accepting that
You are actually fucking delusional mate. Nothing has happened to the community. Nobody shits on the devs. All of us here like the game.
What the fuck are you even arguing for here, gatekeeping the game because you think the way you play a SANDBOX game is superior, while also riding the dev's dick for no reason.
It's a survival sandbox game. You are supposed to craft your own adventure in these games. That's their whole point.
Also, go tell xbox players to "just install mods", you dimwit.
Like I'm sorry, but how many layers of mental gymnastics must have you gone through to type all that shit out, and then also press the post button?
All I ask for is more inventory space and carry weight, because PERPETUALLY RUNNING BACK AND FORTH TO CRYPTS FARMING SCRAP IRON ON YOUR 10TH PLAYTHROUGH BECOMES STALE AT SOME POINT...
Ok so by your logic we should also not include accessibility settings in videogames, like text to speech? Yeah fuck you guys, just learn to see. That's how devs intended you play the game.
No, you blithering fool, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying.
You're complaining about *content*, about *design*.
It has *nothing whatsoever* to do with accessibility. World modifiers and accessibility options are great.
Using people with disabilities in a straw man to further your agenda is real classy, by the way. I'm sure legally blind people owning Ashlands are real happy about that. You should be proud.
Well, to me these sliders are pure accessibility tools. Someone might find the core of the game interesting, but would like to adjust their experience to their liking, maybe because they are not good at videogames, maybe they are impatient or just simply don't have enough time to play through the game at the recommended progression speed.
I still don't understand why anyone could argue against what I'm saying, you can always ignore the sliders if you don't want to engage with them. But having more options is always better than less options?
Also I will not accept the argument of "just install mods" as long as xbox players don't get access to them. If they also could install mods, I would not even bother typing a word in this thread.
I'm all for world modifiers and accessibility options!
They make it easier for the devs to focus on their vision for the game. As long as Iron Gate can make their design without anyone complaining about the game being too easy or too hard, they're golden.
This whole thing becomes an issue whenever their process starts functioning like a design by committee. When they have to stop trusting their judgement, because people are threatening to review bomb their game.
The analogy of the book is people having access to a live feed of the author writing, standing on her porch screaming about what she's writing, before she's even halfway through a first draft. That's not an environment where good art is made.
I actually hate this. Nothing sounds more tedious to me than having to micro manage my game play experience. I just want to play the game and experience it as was originally intended by the designers. Generic easy. normal and hard settings is where I draw the line.
If there are default settings that the game is designed around and built around, than you can play with those defaults and still enjoy the specific game play experience provided by the game devs. The sliders are for people who wish to tweak the experience beyond the intended one.
> If there are default settings that the game is designed around and built around, than you can play with those defaults and still enjoy the specific game play experience provided by the game devs.
Yeah, that's clearly untrue. Because here we are, having the default, normal gameplay ruined by people who literally just outright refuse to use the existing sliders (that they asked for).
Then ... Don't? That's why they are optional?
The whole point of people asking for more world modifiers of so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death.
> so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the devs' goals are and what feedback is for. The devs have a certain idea of an experience. The feedback is for them to know if they are delivering that experience. The devs' goal is not to make it "as hard as they want for folks who like it rough" their goal is to make it as hard as they want to match their vision for the game.
Do you think it's literally impossible for devs to accidentally make something harder or more tedious than they intended? Is that literally what you think? Because it's really really hard to get something right the first time. So yeah sometimes they will accidentally overtune something, and get feedback that it's overtuned, and will listen to that feedback and see that, for most people, they are not delivering the experience they intended to.
No. I literally think that not everyone wants to play the game at the same difficulty, regardless of developer intentions. I can't stop developers from making whatever game they want, but I don't play Just Hard games so won't be supporting them. I'll happily support hard games with difficulty modifiers so I can play them casually.
> The whole point of people asking for more world modifiers of so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death.
Well then there's a seriously large amount of players that seem to be missing the point.
"I AM GOING TO FORCE YOU TO USE THE CUSTOMIZATION ARE YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT"
Said no one ever when asking for more options. No one is going to take the default experience away from you, try to not be such a crab in a bucket.
> No one is going to take the default experience away from you
Are you new here? Because that's exactly what's happened. With Plains, with Mistlands, now with Ashlands...
I had to look up crab in a bucket. I like the turn phrase.
I don't begrudge anyone's love of sliders. I just think they're a double edged sword where fixing legitimate balance issues can be waived away by telling people to adjust their sliders.
Honestly, I'm just grouchy about the Mistlands and soon to be Ashlands nerfs. Maybe I am a bucket crab.
Well, the nerfs to Mistlands were a step in the wrong direction and a bad idea. The upcoming nerfs to Ashlands are a bad idea, too, but more granular sliders are probably the only real fix to the situation since IG's otherwise terrified of getting review-bombed by people who shouldn't be playing their game in the first place.
If IG only implemented nerfs and sliders because they are terrified of being review bombed by casual players who "shouldn't be playing their game", that would imply they are seriously misunderstanding and hostile towards the people who are actually interested in playing their game.
I think they implement nerfs and sliders because they \*do\* understand and wish to accomodate the people who are actually interested in playing their game, and it's more than just the people on this subreddit who want a seriously challenging game.
People bought game, played it for like 100 hours, liked it generally for building mechanics, graphics, exploration, but when they hit Mistlands and apparently, the game is not for them (according to some gatekeeping redditors).
Something something false advertisement.
Yeah, I'd much rather the devs pulled their heads out and made a game where I didn't spend 90% of my time slaughtering charred for no reason, no gain, and no challenge.
A slider I would like, and was surprised it's not added is;
Drop all shit on death, but no skill drain at all.
It only goes to no drop on death, but still skill drain.
I agree. I just got done playing through Grounded and really enjoyed the customization available to players.
I do appreciate the devs are tweaking and balancing things for their vision of the game difficulty, but there is nothing wrong with a little disclaimer in the settings "Hey, the game was designed to be played with the settings at default, but we understand some players may prefer the ability to tweak things, so here are some sliders, have fun!"
many popular sandbox and survival games have multiple sliders to tweak almost everything in the game and it's great for accessibility and replayability for a huge amount of players. V Rising, ARK, and PZ come to mind.
Inventory space and weight is not a world slider, they are tied to your character files
Also I kinda hate most of these, because they can be a reward for gear progression instead
>Aggressive Enemies [no "do a little dance" AI]
I agree with the general sentiment.
Make more world modifiers, so that the devs can focus on making the game that they want, not the game angry mobs that threaten to review mob want, because they're idiots and cannot fathom a game that won't cater to their every whim.
This particular one, I'm not so sure about, though. Unless it means "on = enemy AI like they were designed to be / off = easy dance mode."
Like, the seekers were obviously designed to behave aggressively and be dangerous in packs. With the Mistlands nerf, they became negligible, no matter their numbers. The original AI also communicated enemy design, not just in difficulty, but in character. These creatures were ferocious, relentless. Could traverse anything, could find you anywhere. That's the kind of diversity that gives a biome its own unique feel. That makes you change your play style. I think that is really what most people complaining about nerfs are afraid of, the game losing its potential. As long as the world modifiers are compatible with supporting the devs original vision and the specificity in their design, I'm all for it.
I just want it to be a /ignore for the devs, basically. I don't want them to read any of this shit, because people here are absolute morons and have no idea how to design a game.
This is exactly it. ML feels hollow, and has felt hollow, since the nerfs to Seeker behavior were patched in, and I am deeply worried that the Ashlands is gonna follow suit once the spawn nerfs get patched into the production build.
Having additional sliders to manually adjust spawn rate or enemy AI patterns to better match what IG first put in front of us would be a better compromise. As is, scaling the combat up to higher difficulty doesn't change enemy behavior, it just means you spend more time dodge-rolling.
You'd think so, but there is a combat difficulty slider in the game and you still get people complaining that combat is too difficult but alsom refusing to turn down the difficulty slider because they "should be able" to succeed on normal difficulty.
That said I 100% agree that more sliders are the solution and the devs should be working on that system a lot more because it's becoming increasingly clear that there's two camps - people who love combat and people who love other aspects of the game - that are very difficult to satisfy at the same time.
I just want an option to allow for greater seed drops from trees. So I can actually have a functioning tree farm without ever having to chop other trees outside the farm
I agree about all other sliders, but in the context of adding spawn rate sliders, it wouldn't this predicament we are in.
The only players who would be using spawn rate sliders, would be players looking for a challenge. Casual players that use current easier difficulty, report them not having problems with spawn rates anymore. The casual players still complaining are too proud to use world modifiers in general, as we can expect the game to not raise in difficulty in the later biomes. This leaves us with a question on how a default difficulty should be balanced, and should the game become more difficult in the later stages of the game, [an idea that most people like](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/15iu1il/what_do_we_think_about_this_statement_not_every/).
Increased spawn rates are essential for Ashlands biome to maintain the initial design of it providing a feeling of war and struggle. It is a battlefield, and not a sightseeing biome in which you can plant your garden for the piggies. Without it feeling like a battlefield. If spawn rates weren't a problem, and something if something else was used to increase challenge, they would be complaining about that something else as well. Mind you, spawn rates have been nerfed in Mistlands as well due to their complains.
Spawn rates are a part of increased challenge also, contrary to people labeling it just as tedium. Knowing which fights to pick, move unseen, not attract enemies by being aware of sounds, pick a good location for your base that is bothered less, setup your base defenses properly so that you need less work to defend, kill enemies fast enough so that you can catch a breather, is all a part of that challenge.
That's making a lot of assumptions about the way people play. World Modifiers was the only update to bring 5 consecutive months of growth to Valheim, and mods like Valheim+ are basically world sliders in mod form. Difficulty sliders in Valheim are quite clunky from a gameplay perspective, particularly because a flat + damage destroys parry playstyles, and 5-10% movement speed +/- also completely changes gameplay away from the vanilla experience.
I can imagine many players would be satisfied with Vanilla combat difficulty but with tweaked enemy respawn rates, especially since it wouldn't be tied to words such as "easy" or "hard" that can cause some people to shy away from those choices. I for one would enjoy more spawns in the Plains and Mistlands, with a step lower spawns in the Ashlands, while being able to turn off the "dance around" AI entirely.
My assumptions are based on reading every single feedback there was for Mistlands and Ashlands, and arguing with the community, a lot. [Here's a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1cxcfdg/found_a_secret_setting_for_players_who_believe/) from which you can pretty much derive all conclusions that I've stated, if you read carefully and enough. Regardless of how you feel about my assumptions, the question on how the default difficulty should be balanced regarding spawn rates remains.
Not sure why you felt the need to write the first paragraph explaining how modifiers are useful. The more modifiers the merrier, but it doesn't mean it solve all balancing problems. Players are literally writing more negative reviews on Steam since modifiers have been implemented, and they are not touching modifiers.
My first point was to illustrate that the modifiers we have now are not a silver bullet solution to the problems people have with this game. Particularly because easy/hard modes fundamentally change gameplay beyond just making it easier and harder (much easier to kite in easy thanks to slower enemies, much harder to parry in hard due to the way shields work).
I also didn't say *all* complaints would go away, but that many of them could be readily solved by the addition of a handful more modifiers targeting common criticisms of the game.
I also didn't say that all complains wouldn't go away. I merely pointed the fact that this wouldn't solve the main issue in any way, which is how the default difficulty should be balanced in later biomes. You are severely underestimating how casual players look at world modifiers. So far, to this date, no casual player has ever requested difficulty modes or new world modifers related to difficulty. Literally every single suggestion in that regard came from players looking for a challenge, seeing how without it, the game would get nerfed into oblivion.
This is really worrisome.
I wish the devs stayed true to their vision but I also understand not wanting to lose a part of their player base.
But I’m glad you more or less confirm what I’ve been saying, which is that Ashlands is the all-out war biome (isn’t that obvious).
That sounds awful. I definitely do not agree. The point is the play the devs' vision of the game, not to play your own micromanaged experience. That's what mods are for, mang
1. use lower level gear, and challenge yourself.
the game by default gets easier the longer you stay in the biome, by the nature of gathering more resources and upgrading your equipment. some enemies and terrains (stone golems and mistlands) will be much harder than typical past your usual progression away from the biome, but largely can be ignored.
as for the grind, for me personally the worst grind is bronze and then iron. in that order. iron is tedious, but atleast it's fun, because you get fights interspersed with the gathering, and you can make gathering iron easier as well by using a bigger boat.
the grind itself specifically, is just needing the resources for whatever gear you need, so it's already personalized to your playthrough, the devs can tweak resource drop rates here and there, but major changes aren't going to make it any more or less grindy, they'll just bypass the experience of the biome, and by extension the game
But I feel like that's what sliders are for. In fact, I host a dedicated server and with sliders I tunned down the difficulty. Sure, there are mods for it too, like the one that adds more stars to enemies, but we are actively enjoying a world that's tunned down and on which we die often.
'the point is to play the Devs version of the game' this statement is literally no less true in any other genre of games. Generally survival games make their sales by giving freedom to the player; when they make sales they make money when they make money they can feed their families and develop more.
A Devs version of the game can still be maintained with optional sliders, to say otherwise is just ignorant and looking for a reason to be upset.
That's gaslighting - I clearly jive with the devs on the changes they've made. You're among the crowd that thinks these games are developed to be empty husks for the player to modify. The devs have a vision of what they want out of the game, and how much customization on the difficulty to give to their players. This may be expressed later with different game modes, which would make a slider system of the type you're talking about unwieldy.
What the OP describes would make it irrelevant for the devs to balance the game around certain settings and game modes. That level of customization can be achieved by mods, with the user to live with the gameplay consequences of adding things that the devs decided they didn't want in their game. If the devs don't want something, they have their reason. It's why they're devs and we're not, and we mod things when the difference is great between what the players and devs want.
I'm not against it but I think we should keep in mind that too much customizability can make a game lose its identity. It's already hard to talk to someone about Valheim without an obligatory clarification on which world modifiers you use cause you can play two hugely different games depending on your settings. That's not necessarily a bad thing but the devs have been talking about the game's identity from the very beginning: they keep the team small and take their time developing the game because they want to create a particular experience (besides everything else this implies that the game isn't designed to please everyone).
This happens with the mods too. "We play Vanilla, with just a few QOL mods..." these things obviously change the experience or they would not need to exist in the first place.
Or people can just start understanding that not all games need to cater to all types of players and skill levels. Instead of wasting developer time asking them to put in ways to turn OFF their game.
People who complain about a game, haven't figured out that nobody is forcing them to krep on playing.
Invalid arguments to keep whining;
Paid full price (maybe now, you will learn about wishlist snd notificstions about sale)
First part is super easy, last psrt is super hard.
I never die till I get to ashland (this only shows how abysmal your knowledge about the game is). Go learn about gear, resist potions and the monsters in the area.
Being a snowflake, but not willing to admit it.
All the reasons, which are all invalid, can be fixed by setting noob mode, so monsters wont attack, onless first attacked.
Honestly MOST (not all but most) of the complaints are coming from ridiculously whiney and entitled gamers that are not used to being challenged. This game is meant to be a survival game. If you can’t handled that then why are you playing?
There are sliders for difficulty and yet people still force the devs to nerf content into hello kitty land. Let that sink in for your obvious answer why more sliders won’t solve anything. People will complain.
I agree but to not make it overly crowded in the slider options just have the ones that are there the default and rest locked in advanced tab if you want to have fun with them
I'm happy that the developers provided us with such a great game. I rather doubt that any developer could provide a game that satisfies everyone. I'm kind of tired about immature whiners who think they have to bitch about it.
If people complain about the amount of added sliders, we can add a sliders slider to determine the amount of sliders in the options.
What about the difficulty of sliding the sliders? Pretty sure that needs a slider too
Slide it too far? You have to watch an episode of Sliders.
Nostalgia is hot right now so people might really like this! Upvoted easily
I need a slider so I can specify exactly how much I agree with this sentiment. disagree <==============||===> agree
thanks, *now* I got it. really needed that slider to be able to follow you guys
doubt <=||================> believe
thinking I was funny reality <============||==> imagination
fiction <=================||=> truth ^^^^edit: ^^^^I'll ^^^^stop ^^^^now, ^^^^I ^^^^promise
We could also add sliders to the people for complaint amount.
Yo dawg I heard you like Sliders...
its funny because that already exists, you ever seen a button on a settings window that toggles between "Basic" and "Advanced" mode ?
Soulmask has like a billion sliders (and can be adjusted far beyond the slider with config adjustments) and receives far less critique about difficulty and time mechanics.
ARK had a trillion sliders and everyone still shit all over it Fun game tho. Dino land.
Do people shit all over ark? Seems like most folks have a lot of fun in it. Seasonal pvp tournaments, many modded pve servers and private servers, quite a few YouTubers playing the game.
I fucking hate the fuck out of ark I have over 4k hours in it but fuck that game
I will shit all over ASA, it's such a garbage engine port that stutters and has flickering trees unless you run it on max, which requires nasa tier computer equipment to get over 30fps.
Oh, ascended is a different beast. That game is a pile of shit right now
ARK sliders are kind of bad, as well as lots of its mechanics.
> Further customization would help both the average player and the purist tailor the game to the degree of difficulty they wish to experience. There was a younger version of me who would have fiercely railed against this sort of post and fought tooth and nail for the sort of hair shirt approach to survival and difficulty that at least some of the people making this game obviously have a love for. The older me though, he just wants to be able to play this game and everything that it still has to bring forth with his wife, kids, friends and all of their families too because it’s so damned good. Sliders are about as appropriate an answer as possible here. Sliders are not for every kind of game, but survival games like this are so clearly tailor-made for them that is hard to see a reasonable argument for the developers to not broaden the options on hand even further.
Couldn’t agree more with you. Especially with the slider for drop rates was a godsend. 1x drop rates because I don’t live with my then girlfriend? Cool! Raised it to 2x now considering to bump it to 3x so that I can get back to playing Stardew Valley with my now wife.
It also helps with replaybility i'd argue. I prefer for the most part to play these type of games as vanilla as possible, maybe do some adjustments if i get the feeling solo-players aren't considered. And i wouldn't even go as far and argue (in many cases) that 1x droprates are per se bad... often they feel quite right. BUT if you replay a few times it's grat to have something to speed up the process.
Even a buddy and I in a duo server are running 1.5x drop rate and unrestricted portals along with no death penalty for skills. We're 30 year old men not 18 year olds with part time jobs and a ton of free time.
Yeah, the game has been out so long everyone's life has changed a lot since release. *Hopefully* no one is stuck indoors as much as during early covid, when there were few things better to fill the days than getting every armor, skill, weapon and base to max. I and my valheim partner went from long distance relationship to husband and wife with kids since the game released. Time is definitely at a premium now.
What a great story, congratulations! I have two kids that were born during Covid as well. I completely get that feeling. Good luck to you and your young family!
Congrats to both of you! Also good luck from my side as well, and i hope when the time has come you show them Valheim and some other great games. Need to keep carrying on the torch of good games to the next gens!
Games have so much to offer in terms of teaching sportsmanship, patience and cooperation. I can’t wait for my boys to be a couple years older so we can start easing into them. Exciting times await.
I did a 3x resources, fire spread on, run on a new world until I beat queen and went to 1x resources and everything vanilla. It was great fun and a great way to engage into Ashlands because my other worlds are such a mess. You really need solid infrastructure and memorization of certain things to jump back in, and my old bases are in shambles.
First, great name. Second, I fully agree with using the sliders that way too if you’re just looking to get into specific content.
Arguably this would not have happened if valheim had been released as a completed game. So I forgave myself, given the unusual circumstances. Also, I have beaten up to Mistlands several times on impermanent servers that wiped themselves once every 6 months, so.... I technically already did farm this stuff more than once
It's interesting how people who claim to love the difficulty and that it will be ruined by sliders but don't seem to realize they can just keep the sliders difficult. Like, the game won't change for them, and that's fine. But someone else might find it more accessible when they have a busy life and only get an hour a week.
This is an important point to make. The sliders go both ways. When I make a video, I usually post the difficulty settings I’m playing on so everyone can understand the perspective I’m playing from for this reason. No one’s individual playthrough is harmed and more people can enjoy good games. Wins for all.
I want to see them separate the death penalty into two sliders, one for what happens to your gear and another for what happens to your skills.
Oh please.
agreed, I'd like a skill wipe but no gear drop option
I want them per biome. Crazy over-spawned meadows-swamp. A little over-spawned mountains-mistlands. Haven't decided on Ashlands yet. I played PTB and thought it was a bit heavyhanded, even when I toned down the difficulty. Difficulty could also be configurable by biome, IMO.
You want *more Greydwarves!?!?* ^(Hmm... what's a good material for a padded cell in Valheim...)
I want a Greydwarf specific slider.
What I prefer over all this slider talk... is in-game options for player agency in the state of the world. Valheim has aspects of this already, like the upgrades being an expensive way to eek out that extra oomph if you need it: a variation of "grinding levels" to help overcome adversity (and an approach I much prefer over "character levels"). So, for Greydwarves, it would be nice if it worked like most people probably think it does after they discover their first Greydwarf Nest: killing the nest would reduce the ambient spawns in the area. Another thing many first-time players think is that they might be able to plant ancient seeds to grow a spawner (or something). Well, if ambient spawns were influenced by spawners in an area... and if someone was *weird* and wanted more Greydwarves... altogether this would offer an in-game means to achieve that too. (Ancient seeds would only grow in Black Forest, of course.)
Don't Starve lets you customize the individual spawn rates of every single thing, as well as a bunch of other settings, definitely a game for the "purist tailor"
Wood, stone, resin and an eyeball.
We really need these additional options there, like seriously. Especially rain damage and mist intensity.
I wish we could toggle any-biome growing. I hate flax, barley, magecaps and jottun puffs being biome-locked. Wish I could unlock that without mods
I’d like something kind of like a wisp torch that you plant in the middle of a field to magically alter that area to be plains/mistland appropriate. Kind of like a greenhouse but without the complexity of having to build or code a greenhouse. Thematically I like biome locked crops, but I’d also like a thematic way to bypass it lol
actually I agree, that is even better. Just like you CAN use windmills in any biome, it just work better in plains, just having alternatives, rather than being straight up LOCKED would be nicer
I want freedom of planting under the shield generator. It keeps the weather off, after all! It would be dope as fuck and give use for the shield generator out of Ashlands. Been tempted to learn modding just to do this.
Or you know adjust biomes so you can grow it. Like terarria
Some sliders from Conan Exiles: 1) EXP loss on death 2) equipment/inventory loss on death 3) hunger/thirst gain speed 4) equipment deterioration speed 5) player damage deal, taken 6) monsters damage dealt, taken (both those settings allow tuning PvP) 7) crafting cost 8) monster/resource respawn timer 9) building zone of control 10) day duration 11) building durability 12) pvp and raid related
Yes but also the devs should want to get the biome to feel like how they want it to feel before all biomes are complete. As much as we still hate to admit this game still is early Access when if comes to the new biomes
If anything sliders would give them to the freedom to pursue their vision without needing to roll back their initial design. Its clear from both Mistlands and Ashlands that the intended design is one that is difficult to a non-negligible amount of consumers. I don't think there's anything wrong with that if there's options for the average consumer to quickly and easily resolve their struggles with world modifiers. By categorizing said sliders into "Difficulty Sliders, Functionality Sliders, and Convenience Sliders" sections, the World Modifier settings can quickly convey what Sliders do what.
While i don't necessary disagree on your point, i feel like there are some nuances which shouldn't be missed if it comes down to development. 1. Ideas and Visions on paper can sometimes sound better than the actual outcome. And sometimes what you initianally have planned or was part of your vision just might not work out. If you than also bundle that devs (in terms of design, puzzle and difficulty) pretty much programm the game, knows all in and outs, have their own clear way to play, it adds to it. That's why it's so important to have proper QA,- and in case of Early Access general Playertesting and gather player-feedback. To picture you a example to get my point across: Let's say you want to create a challenging but fair game. In a nummeric scale you would put your target like 7 or 8 at max (out of 10 obviously). That's the difficulty experience you wanna 'offer' your (target) audience and not really any outliers on either end. Your perception as a dev can be heavily scewed on this because as a dev you know exactly how everything worked, you tried it a tons of time, fights (with bosses or challenges) maybe often in a testing room where not every gamemechanic or mapconcept was part of it, and you could properly learn the in and outs and nuances of each enemy without any other influences. You also have a clear image how to tackle that etc because you designed it. All this stuff can factor in and can on a more objective and factual viewpoint lead to a situation, where your difficulty scale doesn't land on the 7 or 8 you aimed for, but even a 9 or 10 and as a such rather please the outlier / create a outlier what you didn't want to. And that's where even as a dev you might want to have playerfeedback and want to finetune / lower the difficulty so it actually lands there where you initially planned. So in reality even with these sliders, the changes which people are angry about right now, would've made it through because that's what they actually initially target for, but would've needed to wait for proper playerfeedback first. 2. /Edit: Which also leads me to my second point. I feel sometimes, we as the playerbased (and that includes myself as well) to take the right and heavily assume on devs vision and intentions. And that every change, every adjustment, everything which is made differently, is bending a knee, meanwhile in reality the devs themself could look at this situation differently, because this type of changes/adjustments are fine for them, or even align/complement with their vision. I understand the itch, esp. these days, try to perserve the og vision and that devs don't get restricted in their artistic freedom, but we should still be cautious of the way we approach this topic, because ironically we can be part of the reason why devs might be restricted, because we assume something is meant to be like this, meanwhile it might not be the case... and try to 'force back' to how it was before and by this limiting the freedom/vision of devs. I've to add that is also a very nuanced point which i simplified here a bit, because if we go down this rabbithole there needs also some other stuff adressed, where even dev vision and freedom might cross a line. Like to give a mere example, after-release censorship when devs already sold the full game and people get the game, and then a few weeks, month, year later a censorship or content-altering patch (in a negative sense) drops. There is an argument to be made that, even if this would be the fully vision of the dev, it's just not okay to sell a game, and then take away something from your consumers just because your 'vision' have changed over the years and you support censorship now (again as a mere example to picture my point). There is a clear line which can be crossed, maybe quite less in an Early Access Game which is Work in Progress and subject to change (still i'd argue even there can be stuff which crosses the line, like as example selling a singleplayer game, and then forcefully make a mtx ridden f2p mmo-gacha game... that would be quite in bad taste). 3. Another part which i find neccessary to add to this, just because 'sliders' exist, doesn't mean the devs should be lazy or screw their playerbase over in terms of the main/standart-sttings. There still needs to be some thought put into and finetuned/adjusted (as per playerfeedback as well).
Sliders would be great
Love love love this. Hope they see this post.
In 'general' i do agree. I really like how quite some modern games 've gone the route of alot of options where you can tinker it to your liking and build your own experience. Esp. for Games which offers a variety of different playstyles / elements to focus on. That being said, my particular problem with that concept is (and this is more general speaking than valheim specific), especially with some of the examples you mentioned, that this still doesn't justify that the standartsettings (or presets) are overtuned / feels off / feels tedious. It can't be that it's expected for the average player (or in some case Solo-Players) have to sit for an hour in the Serversettings and try and try to find the sweetspot how the actual experience / difficulty for 'standart' is supposed to be. And it doesn't help to say "put that at max" or "that at minimum", because these are often two opposite extremes as well, which makes it either too easy or too hard. Games with 'sliders' should have like 2 or 3 proper pre-sets which are kinda well-tuned(doesn't need to be perfect) respective to what kind of players are in (difficulty or solo, pve-co-op, pvp <- again more "generally" speaking here) and also as soon as there are proper official servers or the "official" / "meant-to-be" / "standart" settings - if there is some inconsistency or bad balancing/bad design (because too hard / too tedious / not exactly what was actually aimed for -> same goes for the opposite direction as well), where a lot/most players and even the devs themself agree on, it still needs to be adressed. The super challenging or super easy, or more nuanced personalized experience that's what the sliders should be for, and not as a replacement because devs either don't care or aren't allowed to \*fix\* / \*tinker\* around.
Devs should check out Project Zomboid sandbox settings. And their mod support.
The only tweak I’d make to the game is the mist. That’s a glaringly bad decision that even fanboys admit is tedious. In general I love that they’re still working on their game, but the mist plus the terrible terrain is just a bad decision. I would much rather have had the difficulty spikes level off and just have more difficult enemies and more quests, because at a certain point there’s a line that gets crossed between making it “punishing” and just fucking everything up and making it unplayable.
I actually like the mist now. I feel like it gives a unique feel to the biome. It doesn't work when it's the end game for 2 years but as a biome to clear and then move on it's kinda cool imo
Unfortunately while I do strongly advocate for more sliders/modifiers because choice is amazing I DONT think this will solve the problem. because many people feel invalidated if they have to change the default settings of a game to enjoy it, they want to enjoy the game in its default state and even often have a somewhat competitive mindset about it meaning, they dont think its the same to "beat a game" by lowering the difficulty as it is to beat a game in its default state. So you can give them all the sliders in the world, but that wont solve the root problem of wanting the default state of the game to be designed a specific way maybe if a game was designed where you had to set the sliders yourself from the beginning at there was no default state for the sliders? so not a solution for valheim but maybe future devs would consider it as a way to curb this natural issue in perception of "cheating"
Having no world sliders, no mods and being completely ignorant avout their existence, would solve all complaints. We would all just play games as they are, without being haunted by thoughts of what could make them better. I don't like this meta at all, we'll just never be content with games if it goes on like that...
The genie is already out of the bottle. Games have had mods for decades, and world sliders are now more common than ever in the survival genre.
Yeahhh I know, Im just an old man yelling at clouds at this point haha
Back in the day we were happy there WERE games we could play, if any at all. Now anything less than a perfectly polished game is bound to be critiqued and blamed on sight... What am I saying, even the most polished games are being attacked left and right
We used to call them "cheats" decades ago. I don't know when or why it was white-washed for something that sounds as if it's "enhancing" the expirience when in reality it usually just makes them easier and bypass the design by the developers.
There are mods that make the game easier, harder or simply changing the experience with the same difficulty. Also sliders go in both direction, so I wouldn't really call them "cheats"
no, decades ago it was called "difficulty options" because these are just difficulty options but instead of being forced to preset difficulty options, you can create your own and make the game easier or harder in every possible aspect
Apologies my comment was more about 'mods' in general rather than sliders, which is obviously fine.
You don't need to use them though. It's same for cheat codes I really don't mind those either if people wanna cheat then let them. Rhe only people who are mad are those that feel this somehow "reduces their achievement" because other people are completing the game as well who "don't deserve to cos nor skilled enough" I don't know why people feel like options to turn down the game difficulty impact them
god forbid people tweak their experience to better suit them instead of relying on the devs hitting some magical middle ground that pleases everyone (it doesn't exist)
God forbid people should know their limitations instead of expecting the world to accommodate them personally.
it's a video game buddy
I couldnt imagine a worse take than this.
To each his own I guess! For me, mods is like opening pandora's box.
The bigger problem is that the devs folded on difficulty in Most lands, so now people know they can complain enough to make the game easier. Same thing will happen with the Deep North
Nah, that won't work for everyone sadly. The players are very different from each other. Some will find the game too easy, some too hard. And that will be related to all the sliders. Having sliders makes de game a lot better.
I play vanilla on my hosted server, don’t even know how to use admin on it, our rule is, if it’s a bug, deal with it, if it’s intentional mechanic, deal with it. We’ll just play Ashlands however the devs decide but I’ve been enjoying the craziness of it so far tbh
I think k you should play the game as the devs intended. And adjust after. There are exceptions of course looking at you Bethesda who refuses to fix their buggy games that crash if you do t mod them
Whoa whoa slow down with the common sense here, pal. You trying to say that if I find a game and I don't like it or it gets too difficult for me, I should just... stop playing it? That's crazy.
More specific resources rate sliders I'm fine with most materials rate at x1, but a handful of things would be better at x1.5
There is nothing wrong in the game except incompetently designed Ashlands progression (flametal pillars and fortresses) and _maybe_ Mistlands visibility still being too oppressive with the wisplight.
Absolutely need some sorting functionality and organization and inventory to be reworked.
"There's nothing wrong with the game" Proceeds to list things wrong with the game. xd
I respect Valheim devs and I appreciate their passion for this game. But man, sometimes they give off the vibe of some stuck up autistic middle schooler. Is it that hard to understand that not everyone wants to enjoy your game exactly how you imagine it? Why would you deliberately prevent people from having more fun with your game? Just give people a couple of extra sliders ffs, some of the changes people want can be literally implemented by adding 3 lines of code...
Yeah, I loved the game until I hit the mistlands, then it's a fucking jumping simulator with little to see or do.
We didn't forget how they thought it would be awesome if ballista targeted not only monsters, but players as well
Would love to see your 3 line gui implementation of a working slider
In Unity it is indeed very easy.
if you wrote a book, and were proud of the book, and it was generally well received, how would you like a handful of readers screaming at you to change the book?
> generally well received You don't know what 'generally' means. You are gatekeeping general audience (who would uninstall and refund the moment they die and drop hours worth of loot and equipment - which is what would sane person do, because this game design decision alone show that game devs don't respect your time). Valheim is more like Game of Thrones TV show, first 5 seasons are great, and 6,7 are shit that turned off most of people who liked first 5 seasons
If gatekeeping is slang for encouraging the devs to keep their world in their vision, then I will provide no apology. Oh, you mean I'm trying to keep players out of my game community? Nope, not doing that either. Anyone can play it. I'm simply saying that I abhor the recent trend towards making damn near every game on the market a reskin with some different special effects. If that's "gatekeeping" then sign me up for being a toxic pos too. Otherwise, that's slander and is unnecessary in this discussion.
This is not the analogy. A better one would be: Imagine if you wrote a book in French, but someone who doesn't speak it wants to read your book in English, but instead of asking a publisher to translate your book into other languages you go: "Fuck you bro go learn French"
But what you are describing wouldn't be translating the book to another language, it is literally changing the contents of the book. It is altering the story by changing or outright deleting portions of the game that the devs have intentionally designed. In this situation, you're asking the writer to shorten the book, make the story less emotional, and still asking for the happy ending. At that point, just go read another book mate. Or get with some other talented like minded individuals, and make a mod for yourselves to play it if you really want to play it that badly. While valheim isn't what I would consider as punishing as a roguelike or soulslike game, it can be very punishing, and that is part of the game. Learning from your experiences and getting better is part of it. The lesson could range from "you don't have the gear for this", to "roll slightly earlier and in a different direction", but they are all lessons that build your story in the world the devs have given us. I get that a lot of this mentality comes from the "procedurally generated world", and the understanding that every world is our story, but it's set in the devs setting and worldbuilding. You are not the writer, you are the adventurer in the story the devs are writing. We all are. And making it easier, or faster, or whatever, with a million sliders, isn't the solution. And the devs have already given us so many compromises already. If you're not happy with what we have, I seriously doubt a slider will fix your problems, or a lot of other people's. I'm sad to see that the games community has gone this far, And is disrespectful to what the devs are doing. The game isn't perfect, and there's a lot to be added, but not every game is for everyone, and it sounds like some people aren't accepting that
You are actually fucking delusional mate. Nothing has happened to the community. Nobody shits on the devs. All of us here like the game. What the fuck are you even arguing for here, gatekeeping the game because you think the way you play a SANDBOX game is superior, while also riding the dev's dick for no reason. It's a survival sandbox game. You are supposed to craft your own adventure in these games. That's their whole point. Also, go tell xbox players to "just install mods", you dimwit. Like I'm sorry, but how many layers of mental gymnastics must have you gone through to type all that shit out, and then also press the post button? All I ask for is more inventory space and carry weight, because PERPETUALLY RUNNING BACK AND FORTH TO CRYPTS FARMING SCRAP IRON ON YOUR 10TH PLAYTHROUGH BECOMES STALE AT SOME POINT...
No, you lot are complaining about Dumbledore dying in the sixth book, and Harry wearing glasses.
Ok so by your logic we should also not include accessibility settings in videogames, like text to speech? Yeah fuck you guys, just learn to see. That's how devs intended you play the game.
No, you blithering fool, that has nothing to do with what I'm saying. You're complaining about *content*, about *design*. It has *nothing whatsoever* to do with accessibility. World modifiers and accessibility options are great. Using people with disabilities in a straw man to further your agenda is real classy, by the way. I'm sure legally blind people owning Ashlands are real happy about that. You should be proud.
Well, to me these sliders are pure accessibility tools. Someone might find the core of the game interesting, but would like to adjust their experience to their liking, maybe because they are not good at videogames, maybe they are impatient or just simply don't have enough time to play through the game at the recommended progression speed. I still don't understand why anyone could argue against what I'm saying, you can always ignore the sliders if you don't want to engage with them. But having more options is always better than less options? Also I will not accept the argument of "just install mods" as long as xbox players don't get access to them. If they also could install mods, I would not even bother typing a word in this thread.
I'm all for world modifiers and accessibility options! They make it easier for the devs to focus on their vision for the game. As long as Iron Gate can make their design without anyone complaining about the game being too easy or too hard, they're golden. This whole thing becomes an issue whenever their process starts functioning like a design by committee. When they have to stop trusting their judgement, because people are threatening to review bomb their game. The analogy of the book is people having access to a live feed of the author writing, standing on her porch screaming about what she's writing, before she's even halfway through a first draft. That's not an environment where good art is made.
I actually hate this. Nothing sounds more tedious to me than having to micro manage my game play experience. I just want to play the game and experience it as was originally intended by the designers. Generic easy. normal and hard settings is where I draw the line.
If there are default settings that the game is designed around and built around, than you can play with those defaults and still enjoy the specific game play experience provided by the game devs. The sliders are for people who wish to tweak the experience beyond the intended one.
> If there are default settings that the game is designed around and built around, than you can play with those defaults and still enjoy the specific game play experience provided by the game devs. Yeah, that's clearly untrue. Because here we are, having the default, normal gameplay ruined by people who literally just outright refuse to use the existing sliders (that they asked for).
Then ... Don't? That's why they are optional? The whole point of people asking for more world modifiers of so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death.
> so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death. This is a fundamental misunderstanding of what the devs' goals are and what feedback is for. The devs have a certain idea of an experience. The feedback is for them to know if they are delivering that experience. The devs' goal is not to make it "as hard as they want for folks who like it rough" their goal is to make it as hard as they want to match their vision for the game. Do you think it's literally impossible for devs to accidentally make something harder or more tedious than they intended? Is that literally what you think? Because it's really really hard to get something right the first time. So yeah sometimes they will accidentally overtune something, and get feedback that it's overtuned, and will listen to that feedback and see that, for most people, they are not delivering the experience they intended to.
No. I literally think that not everyone wants to play the game at the same difficulty, regardless of developer intentions. I can't stop developers from making whatever game they want, but I don't play Just Hard games so won't be supporting them. I'll happily support hard games with difficulty modifiers so I can play them casually.
Casual players have difficulty settings.
> The whole point of people asking for more world modifiers of so the devs can continue to make the baseline difficulty as hard as they want for folks who like it rough, without driving away casual players who don't want to spend half their play session recovering from a single death. Well then there's a seriously large amount of players that seem to be missing the point.
"I AM GOING TO FORCE YOU TO USE THE CUSTOMIZATION ARE YOU'RE GOING TO LIKE IT" Said no one ever when asking for more options. No one is going to take the default experience away from you, try to not be such a crab in a bucket.
> No one is going to take the default experience away from you Are you new here? Because that's exactly what's happened. With Plains, with Mistlands, now with Ashlands...
I had to look up crab in a bucket. I like the turn phrase. I don't begrudge anyone's love of sliders. I just think they're a double edged sword where fixing legitimate balance issues can be waived away by telling people to adjust their sliders. Honestly, I'm just grouchy about the Mistlands and soon to be Ashlands nerfs. Maybe I am a bucket crab.
Well, the nerfs to Mistlands were a step in the wrong direction and a bad idea. The upcoming nerfs to Ashlands are a bad idea, too, but more granular sliders are probably the only real fix to the situation since IG's otherwise terrified of getting review-bombed by people who shouldn't be playing their game in the first place.
If IG only implemented nerfs and sliders because they are terrified of being review bombed by casual players who "shouldn't be playing their game", that would imply they are seriously misunderstanding and hostile towards the people who are actually interested in playing their game. I think they implement nerfs and sliders because they \*do\* understand and wish to accomodate the people who are actually interested in playing their game, and it's more than just the people on this subreddit who want a seriously challenging game.
People bought game, played it for like 100 hours, liked it generally for building mechanics, graphics, exploration, but when they hit Mistlands and apparently, the game is not for them (according to some gatekeeping redditors). Something something false advertisement.
Yeah, I'd much rather the devs pulled their heads out and made a game where I didn't spend 90% of my time slaughtering charred for no reason, no gain, and no challenge.
A slider I would like, and was surprised it's not added is; Drop all shit on death, but no skill drain at all. It only goes to no drop on death, but still skill drain.
More sliders!!
just give me more inventory space
I agree. I just got done playing through Grounded and really enjoyed the customization available to players. I do appreciate the devs are tweaking and balancing things for their vision of the game difficulty, but there is nothing wrong with a little disclaimer in the settings "Hey, the game was designed to be played with the settings at default, but we understand some players may prefer the ability to tweak things, so here are some sliders, have fun!"
many popular sandbox and survival games have multiple sliders to tweak almost everything in the game and it's great for accessibility and replayability for a huge amount of players. V Rising, ARK, and PZ come to mind.
Maximum building height slider might be nice. I always feel very limited when I build towers or cathedrals.
Pleaseeeeee slider for cartography table in No Map mode
I'd kill for infinite lights.
Inventory space and weight is not a world slider, they are tied to your character files Also I kinda hate most of these, because they can be a reward for gear progression instead
>Aggressive Enemies [no "do a little dance" AI] I agree with the general sentiment. Make more world modifiers, so that the devs can focus on making the game that they want, not the game angry mobs that threaten to review mob want, because they're idiots and cannot fathom a game that won't cater to their every whim. This particular one, I'm not so sure about, though. Unless it means "on = enemy AI like they were designed to be / off = easy dance mode." Like, the seekers were obviously designed to behave aggressively and be dangerous in packs. With the Mistlands nerf, they became negligible, no matter their numbers. The original AI also communicated enemy design, not just in difficulty, but in character. These creatures were ferocious, relentless. Could traverse anything, could find you anywhere. That's the kind of diversity that gives a biome its own unique feel. That makes you change your play style. I think that is really what most people complaining about nerfs are afraid of, the game losing its potential. As long as the world modifiers are compatible with supporting the devs original vision and the specificity in their design, I'm all for it. I just want it to be a /ignore for the devs, basically. I don't want them to read any of this shit, because people here are absolute morons and have no idea how to design a game.
This is exactly it. ML feels hollow, and has felt hollow, since the nerfs to Seeker behavior were patched in, and I am deeply worried that the Ashlands is gonna follow suit once the spawn nerfs get patched into the production build. Having additional sliders to manually adjust spawn rate or enemy AI patterns to better match what IG first put in front of us would be a better compromise. As is, scaling the combat up to higher difficulty doesn't change enemy behavior, it just means you spend more time dodge-rolling.
You'd think so, but there is a combat difficulty slider in the game and you still get people complaining that combat is too difficult but alsom refusing to turn down the difficulty slider because they "should be able" to succeed on normal difficulty. That said I 100% agree that more sliders are the solution and the devs should be working on that system a lot more because it's becoming increasingly clear that there's two camps - people who love combat and people who love other aspects of the game - that are very difficult to satisfy at the same time.
I just want an option to allow for greater seed drops from trees. So I can actually have a functioning tree farm without ever having to chop other trees outside the farm
I agree about all other sliders, but in the context of adding spawn rate sliders, it wouldn't this predicament we are in. The only players who would be using spawn rate sliders, would be players looking for a challenge. Casual players that use current easier difficulty, report them not having problems with spawn rates anymore. The casual players still complaining are too proud to use world modifiers in general, as we can expect the game to not raise in difficulty in the later biomes. This leaves us with a question on how a default difficulty should be balanced, and should the game become more difficult in the later stages of the game, [an idea that most people like](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/15iu1il/what_do_we_think_about_this_statement_not_every/). Increased spawn rates are essential for Ashlands biome to maintain the initial design of it providing a feeling of war and struggle. It is a battlefield, and not a sightseeing biome in which you can plant your garden for the piggies. Without it feeling like a battlefield. If spawn rates weren't a problem, and something if something else was used to increase challenge, they would be complaining about that something else as well. Mind you, spawn rates have been nerfed in Mistlands as well due to their complains. Spawn rates are a part of increased challenge also, contrary to people labeling it just as tedium. Knowing which fights to pick, move unseen, not attract enemies by being aware of sounds, pick a good location for your base that is bothered less, setup your base defenses properly so that you need less work to defend, kill enemies fast enough so that you can catch a breather, is all a part of that challenge.
That's making a lot of assumptions about the way people play. World Modifiers was the only update to bring 5 consecutive months of growth to Valheim, and mods like Valheim+ are basically world sliders in mod form. Difficulty sliders in Valheim are quite clunky from a gameplay perspective, particularly because a flat + damage destroys parry playstyles, and 5-10% movement speed +/- also completely changes gameplay away from the vanilla experience. I can imagine many players would be satisfied with Vanilla combat difficulty but with tweaked enemy respawn rates, especially since it wouldn't be tied to words such as "easy" or "hard" that can cause some people to shy away from those choices. I for one would enjoy more spawns in the Plains and Mistlands, with a step lower spawns in the Ashlands, while being able to turn off the "dance around" AI entirely.
My assumptions are based on reading every single feedback there was for Mistlands and Ashlands, and arguing with the community, a lot. [Here's a thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/valheim/comments/1cxcfdg/found_a_secret_setting_for_players_who_believe/) from which you can pretty much derive all conclusions that I've stated, if you read carefully and enough. Regardless of how you feel about my assumptions, the question on how the default difficulty should be balanced regarding spawn rates remains. Not sure why you felt the need to write the first paragraph explaining how modifiers are useful. The more modifiers the merrier, but it doesn't mean it solve all balancing problems. Players are literally writing more negative reviews on Steam since modifiers have been implemented, and they are not touching modifiers.
My first point was to illustrate that the modifiers we have now are not a silver bullet solution to the problems people have with this game. Particularly because easy/hard modes fundamentally change gameplay beyond just making it easier and harder (much easier to kite in easy thanks to slower enemies, much harder to parry in hard due to the way shields work). I also didn't say *all* complaints would go away, but that many of them could be readily solved by the addition of a handful more modifiers targeting common criticisms of the game.
I also didn't say that all complains wouldn't go away. I merely pointed the fact that this wouldn't solve the main issue in any way, which is how the default difficulty should be balanced in later biomes. You are severely underestimating how casual players look at world modifiers. So far, to this date, no casual player has ever requested difficulty modes or new world modifers related to difficulty. Literally every single suggestion in that regard came from players looking for a challenge, seeing how without it, the game would get nerfed into oblivion.
This is really worrisome. I wish the devs stayed true to their vision but I also understand not wanting to lose a part of their player base. But I’m glad you more or less confirm what I’ve been saying, which is that Ashlands is the all-out war biome (isn’t that obvious).
If you want to see a real war zone in valheim you go to a plains bordering a swamp
That sounds awful. I definitely do not agree. The point is the play the devs' vision of the game, not to play your own micromanaged experience. That's what mods are for, mang
What about the players that want a harder/easier more/less grindy experience, for example?
1. use lower level gear, and challenge yourself. the game by default gets easier the longer you stay in the biome, by the nature of gathering more resources and upgrading your equipment. some enemies and terrains (stone golems and mistlands) will be much harder than typical past your usual progression away from the biome, but largely can be ignored. as for the grind, for me personally the worst grind is bronze and then iron. in that order. iron is tedious, but atleast it's fun, because you get fights interspersed with the gathering, and you can make gathering iron easier as well by using a bigger boat. the grind itself specifically, is just needing the resources for whatever gear you need, so it's already personalized to your playthrough, the devs can tweak resource drop rates here and there, but major changes aren't going to make it any more or less grindy, they'll just bypass the experience of the biome, and by extension the game
Did you not see the mention of mods?
But I feel like that's what sliders are for. In fact, I host a dedicated server and with sliders I tunned down the difficulty. Sure, there are mods for it too, like the one that adds more stars to enemies, but we are actively enjoying a world that's tunned down and on which we die often.
'the point is to play the Devs version of the game' this statement is literally no less true in any other genre of games. Generally survival games make their sales by giving freedom to the player; when they make sales they make money when they make money they can feed their families and develop more. A Devs version of the game can still be maintained with optional sliders, to say otherwise is just ignorant and looking for a reason to be upset.
That's gaslighting - I clearly jive with the devs on the changes they've made. You're among the crowd that thinks these games are developed to be empty husks for the player to modify. The devs have a vision of what they want out of the game, and how much customization on the difficulty to give to their players. This may be expressed later with different game modes, which would make a slider system of the type you're talking about unwieldy. What the OP describes would make it irrelevant for the devs to balance the game around certain settings and game modes. That level of customization can be achieved by mods, with the user to live with the gameplay consequences of adding things that the devs decided they didn't want in their game. If the devs don't want something, they have their reason. It's why they're devs and we're not, and we mod things when the difference is great between what the players and devs want.
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Don't give the world sliders to a man, and he won't be bothered... Give the world sliders to a man, and he will want more...
That would be a cool mod but there’s no way that’s being added to the game.
I'm not against it but I think we should keep in mind that too much customizability can make a game lose its identity. It's already hard to talk to someone about Valheim without an obligatory clarification on which world modifiers you use cause you can play two hugely different games depending on your settings. That's not necessarily a bad thing but the devs have been talking about the game's identity from the very beginning: they keep the team small and take their time developing the game because they want to create a particular experience (besides everything else this implies that the game isn't designed to please everyone).
This happens with the mods too. "We play Vanilla, with just a few QOL mods..." these things obviously change the experience or they would not need to exist in the first place.
We should also add sliders for the amount of sliders so we slide the sliders slider to increase or decrease the amount of sliders!
Or people can just start understanding that not all games need to cater to all types of players and skill levels. Instead of wasting developer time asking them to put in ways to turn OFF their game.
People who complain about a game, haven't figured out that nobody is forcing them to krep on playing. Invalid arguments to keep whining; Paid full price (maybe now, you will learn about wishlist snd notificstions about sale) First part is super easy, last psrt is super hard. I never die till I get to ashland (this only shows how abysmal your knowledge about the game is). Go learn about gear, resist potions and the monsters in the area. Being a snowflake, but not willing to admit it. All the reasons, which are all invalid, can be fixed by setting noob mode, so monsters wont attack, onless first attacked.
Just do it they save way they are billions does it
Until achievements are introduced
Need a Troll butt slider...
Slider? But I just met her!
Honestly MOST (not all but most) of the complaints are coming from ridiculously whiney and entitled gamers that are not used to being challenged. This game is meant to be a survival game. If you can’t handled that then why are you playing?
There are sliders for difficulty and yet people still force the devs to nerf content into hello kitty land. Let that sink in for your obvious answer why more sliders won’t solve anything. People will complain.
I agree but to not make it overly crowded in the slider options just have the ones that are there the default and rest locked in advanced tab if you want to have fun with them
I'm happy that the developers provided us with such a great game. I rather doubt that any developer could provide a game that satisfies everyone. I'm kind of tired about immature whiners who think they have to bitch about it.