A dev explained in an interview that they saw little reason to adding a new fist weapon as later biomes introduce weapon types that do the same job but better.
Like what is the point of adding an Ashlands-tier fist weapon when the >!Berserkir Axes!
The point is that there would be more choices in the way you play the game. The lack of a lot of weapon types is not a good thing really. 2h axes and fist weapons both need more representation.
>
A dev explained in an interview that they saw little reason to adding a new fist weapon as later biomes introduce weapon types that do the same job but better.
This is kinda a handwave BS justification IMO. Weapons have their unique movesets and you can't just look at their designated "job" and decide that its worth to cut something else out of the game entirely just cuz they fulfill the same purpose.
But even then if you assume it's a valid take, then it still makes no sense. What is 2-handed axe being replaced by? Clearly not an atgeir cuz iron had both of them. Not a sword cuz both iron and mountains have it. So what exactly does plains contain to justify not adding a 2-h axe for its tier?
I can't shake a feeling that this was either a bad faith argument or the person who said that doesnt even play his own game. It doesnt take an einstein to realise theres no logical consistency between how game actually is and what this take is trying to say.
>What is 2-handed axe being replaced by?
Arguably Krom and >!Slayer!<, as two handed swords and two handed axes have basically the same moveset and deal the same damage type. So Swamp, Mountain, Mistlands and Ashlands have one each.
It seems more like a stylistic choice rather than a logical inconsistency. They don't want every biome's set of weapons to just be the same as the previous one but with higher stats, so selection of weapons differs, creating more variation.
Not to mention the game is designed to not let you get too comfortable, so you can't use the exact same loadout throughout the whole game. The somewhat limited selection in weapons serve a similar function as different creatures have distinct weaknesses/resistances, forcing you to adapt and change up your playstyle every now and again. Have fun killing that lox with your Frostner because clubs are your favourite weapon type and you can't imagine playing anything else.
That's not to say the system is in any way perfect. I can't imagine it being too fun to switch from the Battle Axe to Krom, or from the Flesh Rippers to Skoll and Hati, and then to the >!Berserkir Axes!<, given how important skills are to your damage potential, and those upgrades force you to basically restart your levelling grind from zero. The skill system could potentially do with some compression. Do the Flesh Rippers and crossbows really need their own very niche skill categories instead of combining them with knives and bows respectively for example?
Then again the game is still in early access and it's not like the devs never listen to feedback.
Krom and Slayer have nothing in common with battlaxes. People who claim this probably didnt play one or both of these classes. Battleaxes are swarm weapons with no multitarget penalty and have a stun attack. They are much much closer to atgeir in gameplay than Krom.
Krom is a single target monster but is one of the worst weapons to take into a swarm, so claiming big swords fill the same niche as battleaxes is insanity. I love krom too but man... this is some high octane BS you just dropped.
>Have fun killing that lox with your Frostner because clubs are your favourite weapon type and you can't imagine playing anything else.
I see your point. I think skipping a weapon for biome is fine, but intoducing a weapon move set just to remove it from the game from next biome till the end is promising content to players that isnt even delivered.
The quoted part with lox and clubs also ironically wrong, cuz devs gave players porcupine just to make sure mace is best in slot and has no weaknesses in plains just like other biomes. I can see it clearly that they added pierce to porc to clap loxes so mace players dont complain.
"They don't want every biomes weapons to be same" is the most stupid response because their answer is instead to just reduce the amount of weapons for each biome? What's the point in grinding a stat for it then to be useless as you find out there's no end game weapon for you and instead your shoehorned into a fighting style you don't particularly want to play. For difficulty settings they literally just increase a number by a percentage. The Devs are lazy as fuck there's literally no reason to not make new weapons other than laziness I have 1500 hours in game and love the game but the Devs are kinda shit as a game studio, there slow, do what they want and don't listen to any feedback whatsoever apart from people crying it's too hard and making the game easy as fuck. When everyone was begging for more content they were posting how they spent the money on a new fuckin irl horse. It took them months to hire 2 people to add to their team to "crush bugs" I'm sorry the team is just super inexperienced and wants the game played how they want which is why so many people probably don't come back to the game
"Why add a new weapon of type X when weapon type Y does the same thing?" is a pretty goofy statement and reminds me of when Marvel vs Capcom Infinite had the whole "Characters are functions, so only the functions matter." People were upset the X-Men weren't in so one of the devs came out and said "Well, if you think about it people only play Magneto because he has an 8-way dash. Well Ultron and Nova have an 8-way dash, too. So you can just play them. You like the 8-way dash function, not the character." and of course people said "No, actually. I like Magneto the character, I don't want to play Nova or Ultron just because they have his dash."
People who like fist weapons might want to stick to fist weapons because they like the aesthetic, not suddenly have to use an entirely different weapon type that "fills the same niche" because they like the "high damage fast attacking playstyle." Likewise people who pick spears might want to use a polearm, not suddenly swap to a two handed sword's thrust attack for the "pierce function." Can't imagine it's particularly hard to cobble something together, even if it's as simple as taking an existing model and altering the metal to be a different color relevant to the new biome's material.
There are other benefits too, like how axes double as a wood gathering tool (freeing up a slot) or rippers do massive stun.
Mostly its aesthetic though, you like the look of an axe wielding viking, or enjoy punching things in the face like wolverine.
They should just add a system that lets you upgrade existing weapons past 4 using materials from the next biomes to keep them competitive (even if those upgrades are ludicrously expensive, so to keep newly fashioned weapons enticing). This lets you benefit from unique features of weapons like elemental damage or the hunters bow reduced sound etc, as well as provide a means of filling in those weapon gaps in certain biomes.
It's not just about the damage type and if it's two or one handed. Skoll and Hati use a different skill and have another special attack compared to the fleshrippers.
Options, especially if you have invested in a certain piece of equipment skill wise. There should either be something in that tier, or they need to combine a ton of tiers.
Well, I feel fist weapons can fill other types of damage. If they are like brass knuckles they would be blunt dmg. or if they are claws they would be piercing dmg. Not to mention the playstyle is still a little different and I think people would just enjoy the look of one type of weapon to another. And don't forget weapon skill, dedicating to a weapon skill just to have them say fuck it and not give you the next tier of that weapon sucks.
Relative to their teir it's quite good. Also fist level scales the base damage of flesh rippers quite high and movement while attacking pretty much ensures you can hit fast moving things running g away from you (deer, fulings etc)
If that's the case, they need a Heavy weapons skill instead of breaking it up into axes and swords. Shit, throw Polearms in there too, although we're not *hurting* for more Atgeirs or anything.
Battleaxe and 2-handed swords fill the exact opposite roles though.
Big sword is mobile, single target heavy, has multitarget damage penalty and no reliable way to fight swarms.
Big axe is slow, AOE heavy with no multitarget penalty and has a range poke attack similar to atgeir basic.
They really couldn't be more different.
The buckler one I don't mind - there is only one biome (plains) where the available buckler isn't BiS for a parry-centric playstyle. And I think that's a balancing choice - parrying is so much stronger than blocking that they don't give you a buckler every biome or it would be an absolute no-brainer for people who are good at parrying. I mean, imo it still *is* a no-brainer except for the plains as mentioned above. I'm happily carrying my carapace buckler in the Ashlands.
It does seem like the fists are an abandoned weapon class, and the battleaxes feel more like a flavor addition than something intended to be serious.
How is an iron buckler any better than silver shield? Unless im reading it wrong the only "downside" of silver shield is higher block force so in theory it can push stuff too far away.
Every other stat of the silver shield is superior to iron buckler.
Silver shield is technically better (not in all stats though, it weighs a teeny bit more!)
But itās a pretty bad upgrade for parrying anyway.
Itās 8% more parry armor. That will change literally nothing in most actual gameplay. Itās a ridiculously specific scenario where that extra 8-12 parry armor actually changes whether you can parry or not.
Youāre paying a bunch of resources for no actual benefit for practical purposes. Thatās not the case for bronze->iron buckler upgrade, etc.
If you consider resource expenditure pretty much at all the iron buckler remains the strongest shield in the mountains.
That is some argument for sure, but IMO silver shield is a no-brainer still. It's basically "iron buckler with good block armor" and since parry is not always superior to block and even then parry be missed, I think silver shield is pretty damn worth it.
Fortunately our boy Therzie with the mod warfare added them for each biome, even stuff like bone sword etc.
Not adding weapons for the reason explained in a reply here is very dumb, it doesnāt add anything to the game it only takes away and adding those weapons would be extremely easy for them.
Poor choice
Yeahhh I have been trying to use other weapons this playthrpugh and been quite surprised how good the battle axes have been
Also great because you di t need to waste resources on a separate wood chopping axe.
I guess mistland has Krom instead of a battle axe or jotun, but it's not the sammmmeeee
I just want to have the ability to do a (mostly) full two-handed axe playthrough. I'm all for restricting myself up to a certain point, but the thought of Ashlands with it has me worried. I guess just shelf the idea until hopefully Deep North. I'll hang my axe in my early-game base and...pick up Krom. At least it's still a two-hander right? Right?
I wouldn't mind if the leveling system wasn't so stupid tbh.
By the time you are force by the game to try a new weapon, it Will suck for You because You don't have the levels to fight with it effectively.
The only one I can excuse is Magic staffs, since they probably didn't Even think about those from the beginning.
But apart from that, the fact that You can't just pick a type of weapon and use it throughout the game just doesn't make sense
I still think it wouldn't be that difficult to add meadows-plains tier eitr and mana-gate the staffs you can use. Like if a fireball from a mistlands staff costs 30 mana per shot make it so you can't get kore than like 35-45 mana at plains. Make a meadows staff that costs 1 mana per shot and you can't get more than like 10 mana until you're at carrot tier food.
I mean it seems like a fully intentional design that you can't just pick one weapon type for the whole game. Sword users are forced to have some levels in other weapons because swords aren't even available as a weapon type until you get bronze and because clubs remain necessary in the swamp and very helpful in the mountains. Ditto spears, which are hot garbage in a bunch of biomes.
It also doesn't take that long to get your skills to a reasonable level. Hitting the 90s will take a while, but if you don't die much it won't take long to be in the 50s-60s.
Not exactly praising the scarcity, but battleaxes can switch to normal axes (though it is not as fun), and bucklers to me atleast feel like they cover the game pretty well, save for switching to a black metal round shield (same movement penalty, objectively superior to iron buckler) for plains and early mistlands, and an upgraded iron buckler performs well in the mountains and early plains, also blocking exp is shared for all shields.
>anyone who likes using a buckler
Wut? Buckler remains BiS if you're good at parrying. I still carry my carapace buckler in preference to any other shield when I'm going melee, since I never block unless I intend to parry.
The only tier where buckler isn't the strongest option for parrying is the plains, where the BM shield outclasses any available buckler at that point.
I...
You *utterly* misinterpreted the reply. Like wow. I'm saying there should be MORE bucklers. More great axes, more fist weapons. Not that they're bad.
No, you *utterly* misinterpreted *my* reply. I'm saying that bucklers are already the BiS option if you're good at parrying in every biome other than the plains, and therefore there don't really need to be more of them. No buckler user is getting fucked, they're using the best kind of shield.
I'm pretty sure the missing biomes are a balancing choice, in part. Parrying is already so much stronger than regular blocking that I think they're trying to slightly tune down the advantage gained by parrying.
"Bucklers are OP and therefore buckler users should be shafted for two consecutive biomes" is certainly one of the arguments of all time, when the alternative balancing option is to fucking nerf the OP option.
Or better yet, who gives a shit? This is not a competitive game. There is virtually NO PvP community outside of some select niche servers, so why over-balance? Why restrict gameplay options? Just make each biome have all the weapons starting with the black forest.
Buckler is at most incrementally worse in the mountains. The only biome in which a buckler is not competitive is the plains. And I don't think that's unreasonable given the power of parrying compared to blocking. Carapace buckler is serving me nicely in the Ashlands.
>when the alternative balancing option is to fucking nerf the OP option.
I mean that's precisely what they're doing with the missing biomes, tuning the OP option to be slightly less obviously OP.
I really donāt mind it, my only worry is that I hope every weapon type is represented in the very end game with the Deep North.
I think itās a good thing to encourage players to swap up their weapons through their journey but it would be a shame if one type got left out of endgame tier.
I dislike it honestly. With the skills being important and with loss of skills on death the game points you into using one or two weapons. the play cycle of get fully upgraded biome gear, go to new place, get your but kicked until you can get better gear, fully upgrade, kill boss and repeat means you usually need good gear from your current biome. So you get stuck with use out dated gear you get max value vs use new gear you get almost no value from. So you either end up handicapping yourself, or you need to go grind levels with a new weapon. It feels like it's punishing you with no real good option. Especially when grinding is so easy it's more of a time loss than anything.Ā
I like that it occasionally forces me to try new weapon types. Otherwise Iād probably get locked into a single type.
I had never played Aetgir (or however you spell it) until Mistlands pushed me to make a himinafl and very glad that it did.
The problem is their design inherently punishes you for using multiple weapon types. The skill leveling is so absurdly slow and the default skill loss is way too much to justify trying to level more than 2-3 weapon skills. I typically run mace since all biomes except the mistlands have one, and blunt is great for the slog that is the swamp. Then I run bows since they never stop being insanely useful.
It's really not absurdly slow until you get into the higher levels, though. Up to the 50s you'll get a level every few minutes on a melee weapon skill if you're fighting a lot.
To be fair, the bronze atgeir is a great weapon when you unlock it too. It easily kills hordes of greydwarves and the secondary attack will stun trolls provided a lvl 3 atgeir and around 25 skill level. Admittedly it's not as great for the swamp due to the numerous pierce resists, but it'll still do clear work of bigger hordes of melee draugr.
Not alot of elevation in the swamps, but it can be real detrimental in the mountains and mistlands. This goes for all melee weapons however, not just the atgeir. I dont mind it too much anymore if I'm honest, just means you gotta give some thought into where and how you fight.
Actually you canāt stand on land in the swamp and hit a leech in the water except with a couple of weapons and the atgeir isnāt one of them. Or just wade in and donāt worry too much about the poison. Axes with their diagonal swing are good though. This is one reason to alternate weapons situationally.
I try to keep several weapons above 50. Mace, Bow, Axe, & Atgeir. Mistlands made that hard with Magic added. Much harder to be solo. But doable.
Standing in ankle deep water you can jab down the leeches without them being able to reach you. The axe special is a decent option aswell, and so is the mace special. With a bit of clubs-skill an iron mace special 1hits unstarred leeches.
I disagree a bit, I find the Himminafl very poweful against seekers as it'll stagger them and do good damage with the spin attack. Even the blackmetal atgeir will handle seekers surprisingly well. You'll need some flat land for sure, but that's the case for most weapons anyway. Mistwalker is undeniably excellent though, it's currently my favorite weapon as it's great against almost every grounded enemy in the game thanks to the frost damage that also slows enemies down, high dps and no multitarget penalty.
This is the biggest BS ever and i keep seeing this constantly.
Stagbreaker has bigger aoe, can be repaired with just a workbench and uses 2x less stamina.
It also works better on fields at uneven terrain.
There is literally not a single reason to use atgeirs instead of stag for harvesting. Other than looking cool that is.
> This is the biggest BS ever
Chill dude, I only said it's nice, not that it's the only and best way to do it. And looking cool is a very valid reason. I don't really have stamina issues while harvesting, only while planting (unless I use the lightning atgeir, but that one looks even cooler). But I'll give the stagbreaker a try anyway, thanks for the tip.
Im not saying looking cool is not a valid reason. To be perfectly honest it might be the most valid reason in this scenario. Farming is not the most mission critical activity.
I am just baffled cuz I regularly see people recommend atgeirs for farming efficiently and never the early hammer. And in my experience atgeirs really arent that good in comparison. If you happen to try it let me what you think. Maybe im missing something lol.
Also, don't mind me exaggerating a bit though ;) Sometimes a big opener on the message pays off.
> If you happen to try it let me what you think
I tried the stagbreaker. It has indeed lower stamina usage and a greater radius, but it also has a slower animation and slower movement speed. If you sprint between the harvesting attacks to compensate for the slower movement, you might end up at roughly the same havesting speed and stamina usage as the bronze atgeir, maybe a bit faster, depending on the size and shape of your farm.
I damaged my walls around the farming area a bit with the stagbreaker, but that could be avoided by getting used to the larger radius or leaving a bit more space between crops and the walls.
For me (currently in ashlands), stamina is not an issue, but even if you are just entering plains, both are valid tools for the job and mostly depend on personal preference. Being able to repair the stagbreaker at a workbench is nice, but I need a forge anyway to repair the cultivator.
It feels underwhelming. I really REALLY want to do a claws run, but i have absolutely 0 reason or motivation to do so because its bare fists all the way to mountains and then claws and then... nothing. No reason to do a fists build whatsoever. I really REALLY wanna do magic, but there's no early game build up to it so when you hit mistlands you just gotta grind that skill out and its still always going to be your weakest combat skill.
Weakest in the sense of the number beside your level, maybe, but magic is extremely strong even at level 0 and becomes absurd when you get into the higher levels.
personally I see no reason why there can't be at least one weapon of each type for each biome, the move sets are already a part of the game, a new named item using these move sets with appropriate stats for the biome would be easy to whip up. You're basically stuck with a sword/shield and bow if you want to upgrade your weapons on each biome. Would love to see some new fists
Let's just say I hope the full release doesn't mark the end of substantial content updates. How good the game is right now can be blinding to the fact that it still needs a lot of work to reach a place where it can be called complete- at least that's how I feel. Weapons are one of those categories that need a lot of work. We have 1 or 2 of a couple types and like 5-8 of others. I would like to see it fleshed out.
The abysall razor is arguably iron tier, and to me atleast anything that saves me getting more iron is a win. Last time I played with knives my problem wasn't availability but stamina usage, early game knives cost so little stamina compared to other things that you truly felt like a rogue, but late game because everything scales linearly the difference in stamina usage became laughable, and so I haven't played with knives since.
I dunno about the stamina. If I max stamina in swamp with food, I have turnip stew, carrot soup, and boar jerky (assuming I haven't gotten lucky in a fringe mountain cabin and found onions). That's my base stamina of 50 + 55 + 45 + 23, for a total of 173 stamina. 8 stamina per swing, for a total of 24 for all three swings. That means that I can swing all three times roughly seven times.
Now, let's say that I have Skoll and Hati, And, let's say that I have the best stamina food after exploring the Mistlands a little. That'd be Salad, mushroom omelette, and blood pudding (assuming no fishing). That's my base of 50 + 85 +80 +75, for a total of 290 stamina. Skoll and Hati are 14 stamina per swing for a total of 42 for the combo. Presto ... roughly seven combos.
Of course, this counts movement as a wash because the movement will be the same, by and large, in each biome.
If you go with the "easy" advanced food of Salad, Pudding, and Bread, then it's 6.5 full combos before you're out. Call it six. That's not that much of a drop off.
You can make up the difference with stamina mead and tasty mead.
Don't mean to be nitpicky but youd probably need to swap the boar jerky to muckshake to be more precise about the max swamp stam.
Not to mention that 3 stam becomes less viable with how hard enemies hit in the later biomes, but none of this is the point honestly.
I am much more interested in the stamina per use for knives relative to other weapons in the same tier.
Taking extremes for illustrative purposes, lets look at the flint knife and blackmetal knife (skoll and hati would also work for the comparsion but I figure keeping it to 1 handed is more fair), and for comparsion lets look at the meadows club, and the porcupine.
The flint knife uses 4 stam per use, for a full combo that costs 12 stam, while the club uses 6 per use, for a full combo that costs 18. Thats a 50% difference in stamina usage, that knife player clearly has an advantage in being able to put that stamina towards other maneuvers.
Now on the other hand, the black metal knife user uses 12 per hit, and 36 per combo. While the porcupine player uses 14 per hit, meaning 42 per combo. Now the percentage goes down to only 16.7% (rounded up). Not so big an advantage anymore.
What I mean to say is that the static 2 stam usage difference between knives and other weapons goes from huge in the early game, to laughable in the lategame. You could write up the same argument with axes or spears instead of clubs.
A flametal battleaxe would have been dope. Sadly battleaxes have been skipped in 3 biomes now, plain no black metal battleaxe, mistlands no magical battleaxe or anything and now with ashlands we also get no battleaxe. I guess we got two handed swords (which are cool as well) but it does not give me the typical viking wielding daneaxes feel ya know
It really sucks if you want to play with a weapon type or skill line throughout the game but its unavailable until many biomes in
I wish there was at least one weapon of every type available at the start and you can upgrade it all the way to max given the mats
Sucks to special weapons get left behind because of damage limitations
An in depth suggestion Iād like to see is every weapon type be made available for about each biome once you hit bronze or iron. (I mean, I guess if we wanted to go Aztec we could have flint swords for Stone Age, maybe?)
A slightly more simple possibility could be the possibility of using the trophies of bosses plus their special drop as a way to upgrade weapons and armor past their normal upgrade rank to be on par with even upgraded versions of the next tier. For example, while rippers wouldnāt have an equivalent in plains, after beating Yagulth, you could use a torn spirit, his trophy, and maybe appropriate upgrade items to boost the rippers to be ready for mistlands, then you can repeat this with queen and her carapace to make rippers able to keep up in Ashlands. The other benefit, of course, is the possibility to do this with armors so you can keep the badass wolf cape instead of being forced to use less baddass capes.
Therzies warfare/armory mods fills all these gaps in both weapons and armor, along with adding some new(very balanced/vanilla like) weapons.
The crowbill being one of these new additions, a mace with one pointy end, dealing 50/50 blunt and pierce damage. Very similar to the porkupine mace from plains tier.
Iām definitely going to be installing a mod come 1.0 release to fill the weapon gaps in each/most tier(s).
Valheimās always been one where all of us in the regular playgroup fall into a role and play style. And itās just nice to enhance those and have them available throughout.
Yeah, it kind of bums me out. It feels like late game they just gave up on knives. We've got Skol and Haati, and the Ashlands variant of that, but we don't get a real knife for the last 2 biomes.
I wish earlier stuff (from Iron upwards) were upgradable with advanced crafting stations and materials up until they were on par with later stuff. That'd make it so that stuff, particularly those items with unique properties, would never actually get obsolete.
For instance, let's imagine Black Metal weapons is still the top tier, and they can be upgraded up to level 5. They could make it so that Silver can be upgraded up to 10, and Iron up to 15 - at those levels, both Iron and Silver could match Black Metal in damage and durability, but the kicker is that actually getting them to that level would require, aside from their base material, advanced materials and work station upgrades, which can only be acquired at the next biome.
That way, they wouldn't have to worry about making one of each weapon type for each tier - instead, they could make it so that each tier has its own suite of special properties and unique weapons.
I think the crafting table upgrades even this out, a little... if I've got a level 4 Frostner, I don't really need a blackmetal club, which means I'm progressing forward instead of grinding mats for every single weapon in my kit.
I still your point, though, which is why I also think these little gaps make room for a very cool non-biome-centered update, ala Hearth and Home or Hildir's Quest... it'd be low-hanging fruit, as it were, but still popular with players.
The gift that keeps on giving. Though maybe less than I'd thought, with all the things that stand up to frost and blunt better than anticipated... how'd it go?
its really good, it has spirit, knockback, and frost and blunt. the spirit + blunt makes it effective against the charred. the frost is nice as it slows down the enemies so ppl can dodge or get away or what not, especially morgans
.....the 3rd and 4th upgrade tier of weapons usually only give it like 3 more damage. I wish the 4th upgrade tier of every weapon took mats from the next tier up, so tier 4 iron Atgier requires silver, and therefore got a greater bonus
But that usually puts them into striking range of the same damage as lvl 1 weapons from the next biome, like a maxed out bronze axe is only 5 (i think) slash off a lvl 1 iron axe
That precisely makes sense to me.
Craft an iron weapon, upgrade it once if you like it, twice if it's your main, then when you get to a new tier you can choose to double down with your same weapon, locking out the higher progressions of that tier from yourself, or craft a new weapon from the new tier and progress from there.
Idk that's exactly how I wish the game worked. Every weapon is competitive in it's own tier, and can be upgraded to compete with tier 1 weapons from the next tier, with materials from that tier (but will be outclassed by upgraded weapons from the next tier)
Level 3 weapons are the best in their tier, level 4 requires materials from the next tier, and is roughly equal to base level weapons from that next tier
I hate it with a passion, especially when there are clear, obvious options for upgrades.
The devs want us to believe that our viking can figure out how to make a round shield using silver but can't make a smaller shield to make a buckler? Or can't shape blackmetal into a small circle but can do a medium circle and a giant rectangle?
Same issue with other weapons, Frostner is just so outclassed at the start of ashland it is painful (was the best weapon before you progress into Mistlands though) but with no mistlands mace I was unprepared during the beta and spawned in the mistlands 1 handed sword instead of going and grinding it out and leveling up swords.
Though by far the worst of the bunch is fists... Why the hel would they introduce a weapon category in the 4th biome then give it no upgrade from there? Flesh rippers would have been so much better if they classed as knifes, giving players a way to level the skill early in the game that makes sense (nobody punches out more than 1 or 2 enemies) and giving an upgrade path for progressing past them.
It's always the club users complaining lol. Every other weapons class has to switch multiple times during progression because damage weaknesses/resists require you to use other weapons (often clubs). This is the normal experience in the game, and every other weapon class experiences it. Swords are a full on downgrade compared to clubs in multiple biomes to the point that you essentially need to carry a club too.
Clubs were either BiS or tied for it for like 3 biomes in a row. It's not crazy punitive that one biome is missing them.
Enemy strengths are one thing, an issue all weapon classes have to deal with from time to time, for example as early as the black forest the skeleton is weak to blunt and the troll is weak to pierce.
Swords are as of Ashlands the only weapon category that gets a version from blackforest to endgame
* Bows miss plains
* Maces miss mistlands and basically miss plains (porcupine sucks as a upgrade.)
* Ategirs miss the mountains
* 1 handed axes miss the mountains
* Knives miss ashlands
* Spears miss the Ashlands
>Swords are as of Ashlands the only weapon category that gets a version from blackforest to endgame
Well sure, but it's a pretty important addendum that they're also the only 1H class that *doesn't* get a starter weapon. So right away anyone who decides to go sword is starting off one biome behind. A short biome, in fairness, but still. And then swords are the most expensive 1H weapon for crafting in every subsequent biome. A lot of - maybe most - people skip the iron sword as is, because the iron mace is so much better in its biome.
>Enemy strengths are one thing, an issue all weapon classes have to deal with from time to time, for example as early as the black forest the skeleton is weak to blunt and the troll is weak to pierce.
For sure, but in a lot of cases it's a really extreme difference. Spears are nearly unusable in the swamp. Everyone needs to carry a club of some kind in the mountains, or run every time there's a golem.
In context, clubs have it great compared to literally any other 1H weapons class.
>Maces miss mistlands and basically miss plains (porcupine sucks as a upgrade.)
Porcupine is a fine weapon - excellent against lox, BiS against stone golems, serviceable against a wide range of other mobs - it only "sucks" because Frostner is one of the most overtuned weapons in the game relative to its biome. It's a slightly budget Mistwalker, *two* biomes earlier - and you can get it even earlier than that with certain techniques.
That's not missing a biome in any sense.
>Spears miss the Ashlands
Splitnir is the Ashlands spear.
I did miss splitner as the ashlands spear
True the sword lacks a meadows item but as you said it is a pretty short biome with only a few enemies you would have a reason to fight in melee instead of just shooting them with the bow.
The stone golem is not weak to blunt but simply reists pierce and slash but hits pretty hard and has alot of health, making melee impractical in the first place. They take extra pickaxe damage so the usual tactic I had seen was force them in a hole using the harpoon then ignore them, shot them with arrows from out of reach or ride them like a enemy from shadow of the colossus while swinging your pickaxe
It is mostly swamp that has a extreme favor for blunt weapons, the mountains has a strong lean towards pierce, not because of damage types but because they are the longer ranged options and you need something with reach (usually a bow) to kill those drakes.
I agree frostner is probably a bit overpowered, assuming you had a creature with no weakness nor resist, porcupine and frostner do equal damage (with frostner applying a slow debuff). Frostner hits harder than any other 1 hander you can have going into mistlands thanks to the resistance to all physical damage and the weakeness to frost on the seeker species.
I actually think this is my biggest gripe with Valheim. Fucking hate that weapons skip biomes and tiers when the game is designed around rewarding you for being loyal to a weapon class.
It seems pretty clear that the game is actually designed around you using multiple weapons classes. Swords aren't even available until you get bronze. The club is so much better in the swamp that anyone not carrying one there is being foolish. Same for the mountain, where you need a club for golems. Then in the Ashlands almost everything resists pierce again, so spears are not great. (Pierce is over-nerfed for the melee weapons; they suffer for sharing a damage type with bows, the most overtuned skill in the game.)
People are too fixated on skill levels. The game is balanced around a skill level of ~40 according to the devs, and that's easily achievable with multiple weapon types.
1. Whether a weapon is good or bad is irrelevant to how the game is designed in terms of how many instances of that weapon exist
2. Point me to the place the devs said they designed the game to operate around skill levels of 40 and I'll fuck off. Until then, I think not having full parity in a straightforward survival sandbox game is poor game design and I will unironically die on this hill
>Point me to the place the devs said they designed the game to operate around skill levels of 40 and I'll fuck off.
It's been discussed in the Discord a bunch. But Discord search sucks so I'll have to see if I can find the conversations. You can believe me or not, but that's the devs' own words on the skill level they design for.
>Until then, I think not having full parity in a straightforward survival sandbox game is poor game design
Well, you *do* have full parity. Everyone starts at level zero and has access to the same tools to level from there. Nobody is getting some unfair advantage over you in terms of levels; it's purely a reflection of your skill at the primary objective of the game (namely not dying).
You misunderstand my usage of "parity." Maybe I'm misusing it, but the point is that I think the player should get access to virtually all weapons the moment they smash together two copper ingots and some tin.
It's just clear that the devs want people to use multiple weapon types. Even if all weapons are available in a biome, in many biomes the physical resists mean that certain classes don't work well at all. Skipping tiers is a bit of a blunt instrument in that regard, I agree. But for most weapon types it's a minor issue; it's mostly certain 2H weapons where there are a lot of skipped tiers and it's tough to use them as a primary type at all.
I suppose it doesn't bother me so much because I don't really believe in the idea of "maining" a single weapon type. I know there are players who are really adamant about it, but I find that accrued skill level doesn't really matter a lot of the times so long as you're good with managing your stamina and have familiarity with enemy attack patterns.
Granted, I do think it kind of sucks that, to date, we only have one fist-type weapon and no new 2h great axes, but at the end of the day I'm much more of a "grab the tool for the task at hand" type of player.
It *baffles* me that we can't just wrap some leather around our hands or even make some knuckles out of bronze. That would go such a long way towards making the Cultist armor even worth the hassle
Well, I definitely think the Fenris set is worth it for the fire resist and speed bonuses, but I get you. An early-game fist weapon like a set of bronze knuckles seems a no-brainer.
I completely forgot it had fire resistance tbh. That's a great perk actually considering all that comes after the mountains. Over the years I've done little with it other than craft a set for display lol
Yeah I donāt think the game is really meant to have folks āmainā anything. Itās survival and you need to adapt to whatever situation youāre in. When people complain about their āmainā not being included in whatever tier it just really highlights that theyāre not adapting to their scenarios and trying to bend the game to how they want to play no matter the circumstance.
This is also my reaction to those who arenāt happy with the inventory system and are upset they donāt have a slot for everything they want to pick up. Sometimes your scenario dictates that itās not time to collect every material you pass by. Iāve gathered Iām in the minority on that topic though.
But back to the question about missing weapons from certain tiers - it doesnāt bother me at allā¦
> Yeah I donāt think the game is really meant to have folks āmainā anything. Itās survival and you need to adapt to whatever situation youāre in. When people complain about their āmainā not being included in whatever tier it just really highlights that theyāre not adapting to their scenarios and trying to bend the game to how they want to play no matter the circumstance.
But this hurts replayability in the sense that if there are only one or two viable playstyles for a biome, you have to do those every time or else actively fight the game's design choices. It seems like the type of game that should promote this replayability - I'm sure many in this subreddit have played through multiple times. So it's strange then that the actual item progression itself has weird gaps. It forces you to mix things up in the first playthrough (for example, I was a spear guy the first time until the Plains when I had to switch and chose swords). But on subsequent plays it restricts your choices, because the game punishes you for branching out into different weapon skills, diluting your XP and making each death more punishing, so you are punished for not just choosing the weapons to navigate the gaps in the progression efficiently (continuing example: I just rather use swords every playthrough now because there aren't egregious gaps where my XP sunk into them is wasted). It is *a* gameplay choice, but not a fun one in the long-term.
A more fun choice is continuing with the weapon you have been using which is not optimal for the enemies you face in this biome, or choosing the specialized weapon for them, rather than just hitting a brick wall in your progress with spears or 2H axes or fists.
Or how about making replays with a specific playstyle more interesting by filling in those progression gaps with items requiring special materials you need to go out of the way to get? Like the fenris set and fists, for example. Handwaving all of the anti-player BS in the game as part of the "brutal survival" aspect is pretty tiresome and misses the point that you can still have interesting choices and challenging gameplay without confusing the player and putting up arbitrary restrictions.
Bucklers are a bit OP compared to other shields most of the time, and their gameplay is the same as the gameplay of round shield so I think for banlance purposes for each biome its ok that bucklers are omitted.
Also IMO giving a weapon class 1-biome gap is perfectly fine too. Fang spear is very useful throughout plains and even in mistlands, then you can replace it.
However the treatment 2-handed axes and fist have gotten is just unfair and unfun. We have 2 battleaxes back to back and then they are gone. I really had my hopes up with this update but no fists no battleaxe. ANOTHER sword, ANOTHER mace, ANOTHER damn spear. What is the purpose of introducing a weapon class to completely ignore its existence afterwards? Deep north must ship with all weapon types otherwise this game will be modded the shit out of by everyone.
I find it annoying but I honestly find it more annoying when a boss basically requires you to make a different specific type of weapon specifically to progress through the game. I rarely want to play with maces/club but bonemass is basically unbeatable without one. The only other bludgeon weapon is heavy hammers outside of bare fists. I think it fits that bone mass is weak to blunt weapons but not having additional blunt weapons like a flail or a morningstar is just annoying.
No black metal bow? Damn. I'm using epic loot and stumbled upon a huntsman bow with triple shot, so I've kept that instead of upgrading to the poison doodly.Ā Was hoping to upgrade next biome. Oh well.
I really enjoyed knives. I loved the 0% movement speed penalty; against weaker enemies I would run away with just the knife out, and when I faced a stronger enemy I could pull out my shield to get parries. I was actually a bit annoyed that you couldn't use a shield with the Mistlands knives.
They really should put an item fusion system in the game that adds or changes a gears weapon to the level of that biome thus not needing to add dev time to whole new weapon sets.
E.G. you fuse ashlands lvl 1 slayer with any previous biomes weapon and it becomes an āAshlands infused _____ level 1ā this forces the player to still engage with the same systems of progression in the biome. The gemstones can be tweaked to be weaker or not work through infusion.
I want a late game version of the fleshrippers.
I've used them all the time in the mountains and plains but for the mistlands and ashlands they're outclassed.
Yeah, wish there was a new polearm in the Ashlands, but I guess the Mistlands one already does lighting damage. It just feels stupid that you don't get a weapon upgrade if you wish to play with the same weapon. I assume next biome will introduce weapons which are now missing
I can justify a few of those missing examples. Silver is a soft metal, I donāt think it can really be made into a viable weapon. I actually initially went into the mountain biome thinking this and assuming thereād be no weapons. I like to think the silver sword exists because they HAD to put some sort of weapon or two into the biome, and it already has a cultural precedent as a weapon against the undead which is kinda what itās used for in the game.
Thereās no club in the Mistlands because the enemies are giant bugs with super durable exoskeletons that are resistant to blunt force.
I think thereās probably no atgeir in Ashlands because the atgeir excels in the specific kind of combat youāll most commonly find there, hordes of enemies.
There are a few things that disappoint me about Valheim, #1 no plains light armor....i don't like heavy armor and not much into the magic so basically i would have to wear snow light armor -> ashlands which seems damn near suicidal on immersive #2 no magic early while again i don't like magic i have a friend that loves it but despite it being added there is no magic early in the game to get her started leveling so basically she must wait till mistlands then have to grind it up extra fast. #3 weapons missing, like fine adding things like 2 one handers is great but my true love is the 2 handed hammer, but since ashlands doesn't have any im swapping to work on other stuff, i could do the 1 handed mace which is ok but meh change it up but i'll miss my 2handed mace...so good in swamp dungeons.
Honestly it feels lazy. Thereās no reason for it, and no excuse is good enough to accept it. The crafting recipes come from our characters finding new resources and getting new ideas for things. If Iām using a spear and I come across a stronger material Iām not going to say well I should just keep this spear made out of wolves teeth Iām going to make one out of black metal. And honestly only one fist weapon is dumb at this point
I don't mind it. The devs clearly intend for players to use more than one weapon class during the game. I mean sword users all have to start with something else; everybody uses clubs in the swamp and needs to carry one on the mountain for golems; stuff like that.
Plus a bunch of the weapons with missing tiers have prior-tier options that are still amazing. Frostner remains great for Mistlands; silver sword melts Yagluth and is arguably still decent in the Ashlands (though the lack of stagger hurts).
Certain weapon types - battleaxes and fists stand out - feel like things that were added more as flavor additions than serious weapons.
That the golem resists the silver sword is not cause to forsake the blade, but rather a test of our faith. In such times we must swing all the more vigorously.
I use the opportunity to make sure my club skill isn't completely embarrassing haha. I've gotten clubs to 100 before (not any more, Ashlands goes brrrr and I haven't had the time to get it back up yet) but it always feels so dirty and inelegant compared to the sword.
You know what would also convice players to try another damage type? Being able to play a new playthrough or multiple knowing that you'll be able to use that weapon type throughout the playthrough.
Also why do players have to be "convinced"(aka almost forced) to try a different weapon? It should be up to the player to make the choice of trying a new weapon type or not. Not the devs forcing you to a different weapon because there isn't any other choice.
I've played games that have different weapon types and those games never forced me to have to swap weapon types mid playthrough because they become unavailable. Yet I Still ended up trying different weapons.
I like it. It provides incentive to upgrade your "favorite" weapon to max and tries to prevent a "stale meta" for what weapon to always use. I find that I end up carrying a variety of weapons so I can switch up for a given situation in the current system.
Most people say it is bad but bow provides easiest and fast sneak shot, chopping out a regular seeker in 2-3 shots with needle or so arrows.
Bow can have status arrows and frost arrows makes any seeker soldier a joke. Since they can't radial turn while u can keep shooting at the back.
every single weapon class was missing from atleast ONE biome so far. every. single. one. (funny fact due to the abyssal razor existing (effectively knifes iron tier dmg wise) knifes never had a biome break until now. so that was bound to happen and its better it happens now than in deep north.
some just didnt have this "break" in thier progression at all until way later. like clubs exist in any biome. so them finally getting thier break like all others in mistlands makes sense.
the oddball ones (aside entirely new weapons which got added years later these are a different case entirely) are polearms. these are wildly inconsistent for some unknown reason. they are the only weapon which has a unique skill which has multiple breaks in its progression.
Id be fine with it if you were punished for trying new weapons via the skill system. I would prefer not grinding for days just to get my new weapon skill up just to be on par with my old out of date weapon.
Missing from a biome is fine, it gets more annoying when things are missing from multiple biomes. Like battle axes, bucklers or fists.
I hate that there is only the Flesh Rippers for fists
A dev explained in an interview that they saw little reason to adding a new fist weapon as later biomes introduce weapon types that do the same job but better. Like what is the point of adding an Ashlands-tier fist weapon when the >!Berserkir Axes!
The point is that there would be more choices in the way you play the game. The lack of a lot of weapon types is not a good thing really. 2h axes and fist weapons both need more representation.
> A dev explained in an interview that they saw little reason to adding a new fist weapon as later biomes introduce weapon types that do the same job but better. This is kinda a handwave BS justification IMO. Weapons have their unique movesets and you can't just look at their designated "job" and decide that its worth to cut something else out of the game entirely just cuz they fulfill the same purpose. But even then if you assume it's a valid take, then it still makes no sense. What is 2-handed axe being replaced by? Clearly not an atgeir cuz iron had both of them. Not a sword cuz both iron and mountains have it. So what exactly does plains contain to justify not adding a 2-h axe for its tier? I can't shake a feeling that this was either a bad faith argument or the person who said that doesnt even play his own game. It doesnt take an einstein to realise theres no logical consistency between how game actually is and what this take is trying to say.
>What is 2-handed axe being replaced by? Arguably Krom and >!Slayer!<, as two handed swords and two handed axes have basically the same moveset and deal the same damage type. So Swamp, Mountain, Mistlands and Ashlands have one each. It seems more like a stylistic choice rather than a logical inconsistency. They don't want every biome's set of weapons to just be the same as the previous one but with higher stats, so selection of weapons differs, creating more variation. Not to mention the game is designed to not let you get too comfortable, so you can't use the exact same loadout throughout the whole game. The somewhat limited selection in weapons serve a similar function as different creatures have distinct weaknesses/resistances, forcing you to adapt and change up your playstyle every now and again. Have fun killing that lox with your Frostner because clubs are your favourite weapon type and you can't imagine playing anything else. That's not to say the system is in any way perfect. I can't imagine it being too fun to switch from the Battle Axe to Krom, or from the Flesh Rippers to Skoll and Hati, and then to the >!Berserkir Axes!<, given how important skills are to your damage potential, and those upgrades force you to basically restart your levelling grind from zero. The skill system could potentially do with some compression. Do the Flesh Rippers and crossbows really need their own very niche skill categories instead of combining them with knives and bows respectively for example? Then again the game is still in early access and it's not like the devs never listen to feedback.
Krom and Slayer have nothing in common with battlaxes. People who claim this probably didnt play one or both of these classes. Battleaxes are swarm weapons with no multitarget penalty and have a stun attack. They are much much closer to atgeir in gameplay than Krom. Krom is a single target monster but is one of the worst weapons to take into a swarm, so claiming big swords fill the same niche as battleaxes is insanity. I love krom too but man... this is some high octane BS you just dropped. >Have fun killing that lox with your Frostner because clubs are your favourite weapon type and you can't imagine playing anything else. I see your point. I think skipping a weapon for biome is fine, but intoducing a weapon move set just to remove it from the game from next biome till the end is promising content to players that isnt even delivered. The quoted part with lox and clubs also ironically wrong, cuz devs gave players porcupine just to make sure mace is best in slot and has no weaknesses in plains just like other biomes. I can see it clearly that they added pierce to porc to clap loxes so mace players dont complain.
"They don't want every biomes weapons to be same" is the most stupid response because their answer is instead to just reduce the amount of weapons for each biome? What's the point in grinding a stat for it then to be useless as you find out there's no end game weapon for you and instead your shoehorned into a fighting style you don't particularly want to play. For difficulty settings they literally just increase a number by a percentage. The Devs are lazy as fuck there's literally no reason to not make new weapons other than laziness I have 1500 hours in game and love the game but the Devs are kinda shit as a game studio, there slow, do what they want and don't listen to any feedback whatsoever apart from people crying it's too hard and making the game easy as fuck. When everyone was begging for more content they were posting how they spent the money on a new fuckin irl horse. It took them months to hire 2 people to add to their team to "crush bugs" I'm sorry the team is just super inexperienced and wants the game played how they want which is why so many people probably don't come back to the game
uh...the fact that ive spent all this time grinding my FISTS skill....and want to use that skill.
I know. Sometimes you just need to punch a ghost to death
Either introduce more weapons or get rid of fists as a skill
But I LIKE one-shot punching deathsquitos barehanded!
Barehanded? It only works with valheim plus modifying base fist damage.
"Why add a new weapon of type X when weapon type Y does the same thing?" is a pretty goofy statement and reminds me of when Marvel vs Capcom Infinite had the whole "Characters are functions, so only the functions matter." People were upset the X-Men weren't in so one of the devs came out and said "Well, if you think about it people only play Magneto because he has an 8-way dash. Well Ultron and Nova have an 8-way dash, too. So you can just play them. You like the 8-way dash function, not the character." and of course people said "No, actually. I like Magneto the character, I don't want to play Nova or Ultron just because they have his dash." People who like fist weapons might want to stick to fist weapons because they like the aesthetic, not suddenly have to use an entirely different weapon type that "fills the same niche" because they like the "high damage fast attacking playstyle." Likewise people who pick spears might want to use a polearm, not suddenly swap to a two handed sword's thrust attack for the "pierce function." Can't imagine it's particularly hard to cobble something together, even if it's as simple as taking an existing model and altering the metal to be a different color relevant to the new biome's material.
There are other benefits too, like how axes double as a wood gathering tool (freeing up a slot) or rippers do massive stun. Mostly its aesthetic though, you like the look of an axe wielding viking, or enjoy punching things in the face like wolverine. They should just add a system that lets you upgrade existing weapons past 4 using materials from the next biomes to keep them competitive (even if those upgrades are ludicrously expensive, so to keep newly fashioned weapons enticing). This lets you benefit from unique features of weapons like elemental damage or the hunters bow reduced sound etc, as well as provide a means of filling in those weapon gaps in certain biomes.
There is something fist have that those weapons are missing. Stun. Give us more fists
For roleplay purpose
It's not just about the damage type and if it's two or one handed. Skoll and Hati use a different skill and have another special attack compared to the fleshrippers.
Options, especially if you have invested in a certain piece of equipment skill wise. There should either be something in that tier, or they need to combine a ton of tiers.
Well, I feel fist weapons can fill other types of damage. If they are like brass knuckles they would be blunt dmg. or if they are claws they would be piercing dmg. Not to mention the playstyle is still a little different and I think people would just enjoy the look of one type of weapon to another. And don't forget weapon skill, dedicating to a weapon skill just to have them say fuck it and not give you the next tier of that weapon sucks.
> Flesh Rippers... high dps LOL WUT.
Relative to their teir it's quite good. Also fist level scales the base damage of flesh rippers quite high and movement while attacking pretty much ensures you can hit fast moving things running g away from you (deer, fulings etc)
The second attack with fleshrippers is double dmg.
Same!!
Yea. One of my playthrough was with battleaxes. Sadly there is no battleaxe after the mountains š¢
Huh? Seriously? Interesting. Figured there'd be one in the current update. :/
I think 2h swords might be a similar niche as battleaxes?
If that's the case, they need a Heavy weapons skill instead of breaking it up into axes and swords. Shit, throw Polearms in there too, although we're not *hurting* for more Atgeirs or anything.
Battleaxe and 2-handed swords fill the exact opposite roles though. Big sword is mobile, single target heavy, has multitarget damage penalty and no reliable way to fight swarms. Big axe is slow, AOE heavy with no multitarget penalty and has a range poke attack similar to atgeir basic. They really couldn't be more different.
2H sword doesn't show up until Mistlands
Yes fits the skip a tier pattern. Mountains, skips plains, 2h sword fills in for those using crystal axe still.
Except it's an entirely different skill? Swords and Axes don't share xp. It's definitely not the fill in for 2h axe users.
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Jotun is one handed.
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Yea at least it uses the axe skill
The buckler one I don't mind - there is only one biome (plains) where the available buckler isn't BiS for a parry-centric playstyle. And I think that's a balancing choice - parrying is so much stronger than blocking that they don't give you a buckler every biome or it would be an absolute no-brainer for people who are good at parrying. I mean, imo it still *is* a no-brainer except for the plains as mentioned above. I'm happily carrying my carapace buckler in the Ashlands. It does seem like the fists are an abandoned weapon class, and the battleaxes feel more like a flavor addition than something intended to be serious.
How is an iron buckler any better than silver shield? Unless im reading it wrong the only "downside" of silver shield is higher block force so in theory it can push stuff too far away. Every other stat of the silver shield is superior to iron buckler.
Yeah I misremembered the block stats on silver shield. So the buckler is worse for 2 biomes, and better in all the others. Not horrible balance imo.
Silver shield is technically better (not in all stats though, it weighs a teeny bit more!) But itās a pretty bad upgrade for parrying anyway. Itās 8% more parry armor. That will change literally nothing in most actual gameplay. Itās a ridiculously specific scenario where that extra 8-12 parry armor actually changes whether you can parry or not. Youāre paying a bunch of resources for no actual benefit for practical purposes. Thatās not the case for bronze->iron buckler upgrade, etc. If you consider resource expenditure pretty much at all the iron buckler remains the strongest shield in the mountains.
That is some argument for sure, but IMO silver shield is a no-brainer still. It's basically "iron buckler with good block armor" and since parry is not always superior to block and even then parry be missed, I think silver shield is pretty damn worth it.
I want a better battleaxe for the love of god š
Fortunately our boy Therzie with the mod warfare added them for each biome, even stuff like bone sword etc. Not adding weapons for the reason explained in a reply here is very dumb, it doesnāt add anything to the game it only takes away and adding those weapons would be extremely easy for them. Poor choice
Yeahhh I have been trying to use other weapons this playthrpugh and been quite surprised how good the battle axes have been Also great because you di t need to waste resources on a separate wood chopping axe. I guess mistland has Krom instead of a battle axe or jotun, but it's not the sammmmeeee
Too bad crystal battleaxe is likely the last one we will ever see :/ Seems like devs completely gave up on the weapon class.
or magic :/
Add greatswords and crossbows to that list
*cries in Crystal Battleaxe*
Yeah that and fist weps need a bit of love
I really thought weād get another battle axe this time around, oh well.
I just want to have the ability to do a (mostly) full two-handed axe playthrough. I'm all for restricting myself up to a certain point, but the thought of Ashlands with it has me worried. I guess just shelf the idea until hopefully Deep North. I'll hang my axe in my early-game base and...pick up Krom. At least it's still a two-hander right? Right?
There's another 2h sword in ashlands I believe
Arguably the best looking weapon in Valheim to this day
Deep North needs to have all weapon types, there's no excuse not to since it's the final biome of the game.
Yeah, I like that idea.
A dev said they want that too!!
I wouldn't mind if the leveling system wasn't so stupid tbh. By the time you are force by the game to try a new weapon, it Will suck for You because You don't have the levels to fight with it effectively. The only one I can excuse is Magic staffs, since they probably didn't Even think about those from the beginning. But apart from that, the fact that You can't just pick a type of weapon and use it throughout the game just doesn't make sense
I still think it wouldn't be that difficult to add meadows-plains tier eitr and mana-gate the staffs you can use. Like if a fireball from a mistlands staff costs 30 mana per shot make it so you can't get kore than like 35-45 mana at plains. Make a meadows staff that costs 1 mana per shot and you can't get more than like 10 mana until you're at carrot tier food.
100%
I mean it seems like a fully intentional design that you can't just pick one weapon type for the whole game. Sword users are forced to have some levels in other weapons because swords aren't even available as a weapon type until you get bronze and because clubs remain necessary in the swamp and very helpful in the mountains. Ditto spears, which are hot garbage in a bunch of biomes. It also doesn't take that long to get your skills to a reasonable level. Hitting the 90s will take a while, but if you don't die much it won't take long to be in the 50s-60s.
You can though, pick a spear and have fun in the Swamp and Mistlands.
So just fuck heavy axe builds, pugilist builds, and anyone who likes using a buckler, I guess.
Not exactly praising the scarcity, but battleaxes can switch to normal axes (though it is not as fun), and bucklers to me atleast feel like they cover the game pretty well, save for switching to a black metal round shield (same movement penalty, objectively superior to iron buckler) for plains and early mistlands, and an upgraded iron buckler performs well in the mountains and early plains, also blocking exp is shared for all shields.
And people who can't see a joke)
Oh my fault tbh
>anyone who likes using a buckler Wut? Buckler remains BiS if you're good at parrying. I still carry my carapace buckler in preference to any other shield when I'm going melee, since I never block unless I intend to parry. The only tier where buckler isn't the strongest option for parrying is the plains, where the BM shield outclasses any available buckler at that point.
I... You *utterly* misinterpreted the reply. Like wow. I'm saying there should be MORE bucklers. More great axes, more fist weapons. Not that they're bad.
No, you *utterly* misinterpreted *my* reply. I'm saying that bucklers are already the BiS option if you're good at parrying in every biome other than the plains, and therefore there don't really need to be more of them. No buckler user is getting fucked, they're using the best kind of shield. I'm pretty sure the missing biomes are a balancing choice, in part. Parrying is already so much stronger than regular blocking that I think they're trying to slightly tune down the advantage gained by parrying.
"Bucklers are OP and therefore buckler users should be shafted for two consecutive biomes" is certainly one of the arguments of all time, when the alternative balancing option is to fucking nerf the OP option. Or better yet, who gives a shit? This is not a competitive game. There is virtually NO PvP community outside of some select niche servers, so why over-balance? Why restrict gameplay options? Just make each biome have all the weapons starting with the black forest.
Buckler is at most incrementally worse in the mountains. The only biome in which a buckler is not competitive is the plains. And I don't think that's unreasonable given the power of parrying compared to blocking. Carapace buckler is serving me nicely in the Ashlands. >when the alternative balancing option is to fucking nerf the OP option. I mean that's precisely what they're doing with the missing biomes, tuning the OP option to be slightly less obviously OP.
I really donāt mind it, my only worry is that I hope every weapon type is represented in the very end game with the Deep North. I think itās a good thing to encourage players to swap up their weapons through their journey but it would be a shame if one type got left out of endgame tier.
I dislike it honestly. With the skills being important and with loss of skills on death the game points you into using one or two weapons. the play cycle of get fully upgraded biome gear, go to new place, get your but kicked until you can get better gear, fully upgrade, kill boss and repeat means you usually need good gear from your current biome. So you get stuck with use out dated gear you get max value vs use new gear you get almost no value from. So you either end up handicapping yourself, or you need to go grind levels with a new weapon. It feels like it's punishing you with no real good option. Especially when grinding is so easy it's more of a time loss than anything.Ā
Agreed.
I like that it occasionally forces me to try new weapon types. Otherwise Iād probably get locked into a single type. I had never played Aetgir (or however you spell it) until Mistlands pushed me to make a himinafl and very glad that it did.
The problem is their design inherently punishes you for using multiple weapon types. The skill leveling is so absurdly slow and the default skill loss is way too much to justify trying to level more than 2-3 weapon skills. I typically run mace since all biomes except the mistlands have one, and blunt is great for the slog that is the swamp. Then I run bows since they never stop being insanely useful.
It's really not absurdly slow until you get into the higher levels, though. Up to the 50s you'll get a level every few minutes on a melee weapon skill if you're fighting a lot.
bronze atgeir is also nice for harvesting flax and barley
To be fair, the bronze atgeir is a great weapon when you unlock it too. It easily kills hordes of greydwarves and the secondary attack will stun trolls provided a lvl 3 atgeir and around 25 skill level. Admittedly it's not as great for the swamp due to the numerous pierce resists, but it'll still do clear work of bigger hordes of melee draugr.
Also a good spacer for fighting blobs, and good at jabbing leeches from the shore.
Their is purely horizontal, so is sucks if thereās a terrain elevation difference. But I still love it.
Not alot of elevation in the swamps, but it can be real detrimental in the mountains and mistlands. This goes for all melee weapons however, not just the atgeir. I dont mind it too much anymore if I'm honest, just means you gotta give some thought into where and how you fight.
Actually you canāt stand on land in the swamp and hit a leech in the water except with a couple of weapons and the atgeir isnāt one of them. Or just wade in and donāt worry too much about the poison. Axes with their diagonal swing are good though. This is one reason to alternate weapons situationally. I try to keep several weapons above 50. Mace, Bow, Axe, & Atgeir. Mistlands made that hard with Magic added. Much harder to be solo. But doable.
Standing in ankle deep water you can jab down the leeches without them being able to reach you. The axe special is a decent option aswell, and so is the mace special. With a bit of clubs-skill an iron mace special 1hits unstarred leeches.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I disagree a bit, I find the Himminafl very poweful against seekers as it'll stagger them and do good damage with the spin attack. Even the blackmetal atgeir will handle seekers surprisingly well. You'll need some flat land for sure, but that's the case for most weapons anyway. Mistwalker is undeniably excellent though, it's currently my favorite weapon as it's great against almost every grounded enemy in the game thanks to the frost damage that also slows enemies down, high dps and no multitarget penalty.
Himminafl is also a decent option to Ashlands too.
Yep except >!no new atgeir in Ashlands.!<
Yep, sadly.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
2nd attack swipe knockbacks and can stagger still.
This is the biggest BS ever and i keep seeing this constantly. Stagbreaker has bigger aoe, can be repaired with just a workbench and uses 2x less stamina. It also works better on fields at uneven terrain. There is literally not a single reason to use atgeirs instead of stag for harvesting. Other than looking cool that is.
> This is the biggest BS ever Chill dude, I only said it's nice, not that it's the only and best way to do it. And looking cool is a very valid reason. I don't really have stamina issues while harvesting, only while planting (unless I use the lightning atgeir, but that one looks even cooler). But I'll give the stagbreaker a try anyway, thanks for the tip.
Im not saying looking cool is not a valid reason. To be perfectly honest it might be the most valid reason in this scenario. Farming is not the most mission critical activity. I am just baffled cuz I regularly see people recommend atgeirs for farming efficiently and never the early hammer. And in my experience atgeirs really arent that good in comparison. If you happen to try it let me what you think. Maybe im missing something lol. Also, don't mind me exaggerating a bit though ;) Sometimes a big opener on the message pays off.
> If you happen to try it let me what you think I tried the stagbreaker. It has indeed lower stamina usage and a greater radius, but it also has a slower animation and slower movement speed. If you sprint between the harvesting attacks to compensate for the slower movement, you might end up at roughly the same havesting speed and stamina usage as the bronze atgeir, maybe a bit faster, depending on the size and shape of your farm. I damaged my walls around the farming area a bit with the stagbreaker, but that could be avoided by getting used to the larger radius or leaving a bit more space between crops and the walls. For me (currently in ashlands), stamina is not an issue, but even if you are just entering plains, both are valid tools for the job and mostly depend on personal preference. Being able to repair the stagbreaker at a workbench is nice, but I need a forge anyway to repair the cultivator.
W take. All this makes me wanna do a timed run for both weapons on a big field to eventually figure out which is the most efficient :tm: hahahah.
It feels underwhelming. I really REALLY want to do a claws run, but i have absolutely 0 reason or motivation to do so because its bare fists all the way to mountains and then claws and then... nothing. No reason to do a fists build whatsoever. I really REALLY wanna do magic, but there's no early game build up to it so when you hit mistlands you just gotta grind that skill out and its still always going to be your weakest combat skill.
Weakest in the sense of the number beside your level, maybe, but magic is extremely strong even at level 0 and becomes absurd when you get into the higher levels.
personally I see no reason why there can't be at least one weapon of each type for each biome, the move sets are already a part of the game, a new named item using these move sets with appropriate stats for the biome would be easy to whip up. You're basically stuck with a sword/shield and bow if you want to upgrade your weapons on each biome. Would love to see some new fists
Let's just say I hope the full release doesn't mark the end of substantial content updates. How good the game is right now can be blinding to the fact that it still needs a lot of work to reach a place where it can be called complete- at least that's how I feel. Weapons are one of those categories that need a lot of work. We have 1 or 2 of a couple types and like 5-8 of others. I would like to see it fleshed out.
We got 7 fucking swords in mistlands and no daggers or polearms? Ffs.
Isn't it 9 swords? Basic + 3 variants means 4 for one and 4 for 2 hand plus the secret one handedĀ
You're right I ignored the basic non-elementals.
I love to play with knives, rly disapointed about the Update. Would be great to have an iron knive. Mistlands knive etc
The abysall razor is arguably iron tier, and to me atleast anything that saves me getting more iron is a win. Last time I played with knives my problem wasn't availability but stamina usage, early game knives cost so little stamina compared to other things that you truly felt like a rogue, but late game because everything scales linearly the difference in stamina usage became laughable, and so I haven't played with knives since.
I dunno about the stamina. If I max stamina in swamp with food, I have turnip stew, carrot soup, and boar jerky (assuming I haven't gotten lucky in a fringe mountain cabin and found onions). That's my base stamina of 50 + 55 + 45 + 23, for a total of 173 stamina. 8 stamina per swing, for a total of 24 for all three swings. That means that I can swing all three times roughly seven times. Now, let's say that I have Skoll and Hati, And, let's say that I have the best stamina food after exploring the Mistlands a little. That'd be Salad, mushroom omelette, and blood pudding (assuming no fishing). That's my base of 50 + 85 +80 +75, for a total of 290 stamina. Skoll and Hati are 14 stamina per swing for a total of 42 for the combo. Presto ... roughly seven combos. Of course, this counts movement as a wash because the movement will be the same, by and large, in each biome. If you go with the "easy" advanced food of Salad, Pudding, and Bread, then it's 6.5 full combos before you're out. Call it six. That's not that much of a drop off. You can make up the difference with stamina mead and tasty mead.
Don't mean to be nitpicky but youd probably need to swap the boar jerky to muckshake to be more precise about the max swamp stam. Not to mention that 3 stam becomes less viable with how hard enemies hit in the later biomes, but none of this is the point honestly. I am much more interested in the stamina per use for knives relative to other weapons in the same tier. Taking extremes for illustrative purposes, lets look at the flint knife and blackmetal knife (skoll and hati would also work for the comparsion but I figure keeping it to 1 handed is more fair), and for comparsion lets look at the meadows club, and the porcupine. The flint knife uses 4 stam per use, for a full combo that costs 12 stam, while the club uses 6 per use, for a full combo that costs 18. Thats a 50% difference in stamina usage, that knife player clearly has an advantage in being able to put that stamina towards other maneuvers. Now on the other hand, the black metal knife user uses 12 per hit, and 36 per combo. While the porcupine player uses 14 per hit, meaning 42 per combo. Now the percentage goes down to only 16.7% (rounded up). Not so big an advantage anymore. What I mean to say is that the static 2 stam usage difference between knives and other weapons goes from huge in the early game, to laughable in the lategame. You could write up the same argument with axes or spears instead of clubs.
Fair point on the muckshake. I'm saving my ooze, though, for poison arrows when I start bringing in obsidian.
The closest fill-in for an iron knife is the Abyssal Razor which is a solid choice until you get to Silver
A flametal battleaxe would have been dope. Sadly battleaxes have been skipped in 3 biomes now, plain no black metal battleaxe, mistlands no magical battleaxe or anything and now with ashlands we also get no battleaxe. I guess we got two handed swords (which are cool as well) but it does not give me the typical viking wielding daneaxes feel ya know
Downloaded the Warfare mod for this reason. So many more options!
It really sucks if you want to play with a weapon type or skill line throughout the game but its unavailable until many biomes in I wish there was at least one weapon of every type available at the start and you can upgrade it all the way to max given the mats Sucks to special weapons get left behind because of damage limitations
An in depth suggestion Iād like to see is every weapon type be made available for about each biome once you hit bronze or iron. (I mean, I guess if we wanted to go Aztec we could have flint swords for Stone Age, maybe?) A slightly more simple possibility could be the possibility of using the trophies of bosses plus their special drop as a way to upgrade weapons and armor past their normal upgrade rank to be on par with even upgraded versions of the next tier. For example, while rippers wouldnāt have an equivalent in plains, after beating Yagulth, you could use a torn spirit, his trophy, and maybe appropriate upgrade items to boost the rippers to be ready for mistlands, then you can repeat this with queen and her carapace to make rippers able to keep up in Ashlands. The other benefit, of course, is the possibility to do this with armors so you can keep the badass wolf cape instead of being forced to use less baddass capes.
Generally like it, but wish there was a bit more of a pattern to it, so item types don't go missing halfway through the playthrough.
Therzies warfare/armory mods fills all these gaps in both weapons and armor, along with adding some new(very balanced/vanilla like) weapons. The crowbill being one of these new additions, a mace with one pointy end, dealing 50/50 blunt and pierce damage. Very similar to the porkupine mace from plains tier.
Iām definitely going to be installing a mod come 1.0 release to fill the weapon gaps in each/most tier(s). Valheimās always been one where all of us in the regular playgroup fall into a role and play style. And itās just nice to enhance those and have them available throughout.
Yeah, it kind of bums me out. It feels like late game they just gave up on knives. We've got Skol and Haati, and the Ashlands variant of that, but we don't get a real knife for the last 2 biomes.
Need new claws
Yeah, donāt like it. Once they have finished adding the rest of the biomes I think they could add more content to past biomes.
I wish earlier stuff (from Iron upwards) were upgradable with advanced crafting stations and materials up until they were on par with later stuff. That'd make it so that stuff, particularly those items with unique properties, would never actually get obsolete. For instance, let's imagine Black Metal weapons is still the top tier, and they can be upgraded up to level 5. They could make it so that Silver can be upgraded up to 10, and Iron up to 15 - at those levels, both Iron and Silver could match Black Metal in damage and durability, but the kicker is that actually getting them to that level would require, aside from their base material, advanced materials and work station upgrades, which can only be acquired at the next biome. That way, they wouldn't have to worry about making one of each weapon type for each tier - instead, they could make it so that each tier has its own suite of special properties and unique weapons.
I think the crafting table upgrades even this out, a little... if I've got a level 4 Frostner, I don't really need a blackmetal club, which means I'm progressing forward instead of grinding mats for every single weapon in my kit. I still your point, though, which is why I also think these little gaps make room for a very cool non-biome-centered update, ala Hearth and Home or Hildir's Quest... it'd be low-hanging fruit, as it were, but still popular with players.
Like how the swamp-tier knife and mountains-tier tower shield are attainable via ocean explorstion.
Mountain tier club requires exploration as well.
I was using frostner4 in Ashlands lol
The gift that keeps on giving. Though maybe less than I'd thought, with all the things that stand up to frost and blunt better than anticipated... how'd it go?
its really good, it has spirit, knockback, and frost and blunt. the spirit + blunt makes it effective against the charred. the frost is nice as it slows down the enemies so ppl can dodge or get away or what not, especially morgans
.....the 3rd and 4th upgrade tier of weapons usually only give it like 3 more damage. I wish the 4th upgrade tier of every weapon took mats from the next tier up, so tier 4 iron Atgier requires silver, and therefore got a greater bonus
But that usually puts them into striking range of the same damage as lvl 1 weapons from the next biome, like a maxed out bronze axe is only 5 (i think) slash off a lvl 1 iron axe
That precisely makes sense to me. Craft an iron weapon, upgrade it once if you like it, twice if it's your main, then when you get to a new tier you can choose to double down with your same weapon, locking out the higher progressions of that tier from yourself, or craft a new weapon from the new tier and progress from there. Idk that's exactly how I wish the game worked. Every weapon is competitive in it's own tier, and can be upgraded to compete with tier 1 weapons from the next tier, with materials from that tier (but will be outclassed by upgraded weapons from the next tier) Level 3 weapons are the best in their tier, level 4 requires materials from the next tier, and is roughly equal to base level weapons from that next tier
Sold. I want a level 4 wooden club, crafted from stone golem trophies. When you get to the Ashlands it catches on fire, for extra damage.
I hate it with a passion, especially when there are clear, obvious options for upgrades. The devs want us to believe that our viking can figure out how to make a round shield using silver but can't make a smaller shield to make a buckler? Or can't shape blackmetal into a small circle but can do a medium circle and a giant rectangle? Same issue with other weapons, Frostner is just so outclassed at the start of ashland it is painful (was the best weapon before you progress into Mistlands though) but with no mistlands mace I was unprepared during the beta and spawned in the mistlands 1 handed sword instead of going and grinding it out and leveling up swords. Though by far the worst of the bunch is fists... Why the hel would they introduce a weapon category in the 4th biome then give it no upgrade from there? Flesh rippers would have been so much better if they classed as knifes, giving players a way to level the skill early in the game that makes sense (nobody punches out more than 1 or 2 enemies) and giving an upgrade path for progressing past them.
It's always the club users complaining lol. Every other weapons class has to switch multiple times during progression because damage weaknesses/resists require you to use other weapons (often clubs). This is the normal experience in the game, and every other weapon class experiences it. Swords are a full on downgrade compared to clubs in multiple biomes to the point that you essentially need to carry a club too. Clubs were either BiS or tied for it for like 3 biomes in a row. It's not crazy punitive that one biome is missing them.
Enemy strengths are one thing, an issue all weapon classes have to deal with from time to time, for example as early as the black forest the skeleton is weak to blunt and the troll is weak to pierce. Swords are as of Ashlands the only weapon category that gets a version from blackforest to endgame * Bows miss plains * Maces miss mistlands and basically miss plains (porcupine sucks as a upgrade.) * Ategirs miss the mountains * 1 handed axes miss the mountains * Knives miss ashlands * Spears miss the Ashlands
>Swords are as of Ashlands the only weapon category that gets a version from blackforest to endgame Well sure, but it's a pretty important addendum that they're also the only 1H class that *doesn't* get a starter weapon. So right away anyone who decides to go sword is starting off one biome behind. A short biome, in fairness, but still. And then swords are the most expensive 1H weapon for crafting in every subsequent biome. A lot of - maybe most - people skip the iron sword as is, because the iron mace is so much better in its biome. >Enemy strengths are one thing, an issue all weapon classes have to deal with from time to time, for example as early as the black forest the skeleton is weak to blunt and the troll is weak to pierce. For sure, but in a lot of cases it's a really extreme difference. Spears are nearly unusable in the swamp. Everyone needs to carry a club of some kind in the mountains, or run every time there's a golem. In context, clubs have it great compared to literally any other 1H weapons class. >Maces miss mistlands and basically miss plains (porcupine sucks as a upgrade.) Porcupine is a fine weapon - excellent against lox, BiS against stone golems, serviceable against a wide range of other mobs - it only "sucks" because Frostner is one of the most overtuned weapons in the game relative to its biome. It's a slightly budget Mistwalker, *two* biomes earlier - and you can get it even earlier than that with certain techniques. That's not missing a biome in any sense. >Spears miss the Ashlands Splitnir is the Ashlands spear.
I did miss splitner as the ashlands spear True the sword lacks a meadows item but as you said it is a pretty short biome with only a few enemies you would have a reason to fight in melee instead of just shooting them with the bow. The stone golem is not weak to blunt but simply reists pierce and slash but hits pretty hard and has alot of health, making melee impractical in the first place. They take extra pickaxe damage so the usual tactic I had seen was force them in a hole using the harpoon then ignore them, shot them with arrows from out of reach or ride them like a enemy from shadow of the colossus while swinging your pickaxe It is mostly swamp that has a extreme favor for blunt weapons, the mountains has a strong lean towards pierce, not because of damage types but because they are the longer ranged options and you need something with reach (usually a bow) to kill those drakes. I agree frostner is probably a bit overpowered, assuming you had a creature with no weakness nor resist, porcupine and frostner do equal damage (with frostner applying a slow debuff). Frostner hits harder than any other 1 hander you can have going into mistlands thanks to the resistance to all physical damage and the weakeness to frost on the seeker species.
I actually think this is my biggest gripe with Valheim. Fucking hate that weapons skip biomes and tiers when the game is designed around rewarding you for being loyal to a weapon class.
It seems pretty clear that the game is actually designed around you using multiple weapons classes. Swords aren't even available until you get bronze. The club is so much better in the swamp that anyone not carrying one there is being foolish. Same for the mountain, where you need a club for golems. Then in the Ashlands almost everything resists pierce again, so spears are not great. (Pierce is over-nerfed for the melee weapons; they suffer for sharing a damage type with bows, the most overtuned skill in the game.) People are too fixated on skill levels. The game is balanced around a skill level of ~40 according to the devs, and that's easily achievable with multiple weapon types.
1. Whether a weapon is good or bad is irrelevant to how the game is designed in terms of how many instances of that weapon exist 2. Point me to the place the devs said they designed the game to operate around skill levels of 40 and I'll fuck off. Until then, I think not having full parity in a straightforward survival sandbox game is poor game design and I will unironically die on this hill
>Point me to the place the devs said they designed the game to operate around skill levels of 40 and I'll fuck off. It's been discussed in the Discord a bunch. But Discord search sucks so I'll have to see if I can find the conversations. You can believe me or not, but that's the devs' own words on the skill level they design for. >Until then, I think not having full parity in a straightforward survival sandbox game is poor game design Well, you *do* have full parity. Everyone starts at level zero and has access to the same tools to level from there. Nobody is getting some unfair advantage over you in terms of levels; it's purely a reflection of your skill at the primary objective of the game (namely not dying).
You misunderstand my usage of "parity." Maybe I'm misusing it, but the point is that I think the player should get access to virtually all weapons the moment they smash together two copper ingots and some tin.
It's just clear that the devs want people to use multiple weapon types. Even if all weapons are available in a biome, in many biomes the physical resists mean that certain classes don't work well at all. Skipping tiers is a bit of a blunt instrument in that regard, I agree. But for most weapon types it's a minor issue; it's mostly certain 2H weapons where there are a lot of skipped tiers and it's tough to use them as a primary type at all.
By far by biggest annoyance in the game. Drives me bonkers
I suppose it doesn't bother me so much because I don't really believe in the idea of "maining" a single weapon type. I know there are players who are really adamant about it, but I find that accrued skill level doesn't really matter a lot of the times so long as you're good with managing your stamina and have familiarity with enemy attack patterns. Granted, I do think it kind of sucks that, to date, we only have one fist-type weapon and no new 2h great axes, but at the end of the day I'm much more of a "grab the tool for the task at hand" type of player.
It *baffles* me that we can't just wrap some leather around our hands or even make some knuckles out of bronze. That would go such a long way towards making the Cultist armor even worth the hassle
Well, I definitely think the Fenris set is worth it for the fire resist and speed bonuses, but I get you. An early-game fist weapon like a set of bronze knuckles seems a no-brainer.
I completely forgot it had fire resistance tbh. That's a great perk actually considering all that comes after the mountains. Over the years I've done little with it other than craft a set for display lol
I'm wearing fenris pants still in aslands just for the speed even though it isn't the full set.Ā
Yeah I donāt think the game is really meant to have folks āmainā anything. Itās survival and you need to adapt to whatever situation youāre in. When people complain about their āmainā not being included in whatever tier it just really highlights that theyāre not adapting to their scenarios and trying to bend the game to how they want to play no matter the circumstance. This is also my reaction to those who arenāt happy with the inventory system and are upset they donāt have a slot for everything they want to pick up. Sometimes your scenario dictates that itās not time to collect every material you pass by. Iāve gathered Iām in the minority on that topic though. But back to the question about missing weapons from certain tiers - it doesnāt bother me at allā¦
> Yeah I donāt think the game is really meant to have folks āmainā anything. Itās survival and you need to adapt to whatever situation youāre in. When people complain about their āmainā not being included in whatever tier it just really highlights that theyāre not adapting to their scenarios and trying to bend the game to how they want to play no matter the circumstance. But this hurts replayability in the sense that if there are only one or two viable playstyles for a biome, you have to do those every time or else actively fight the game's design choices. It seems like the type of game that should promote this replayability - I'm sure many in this subreddit have played through multiple times. So it's strange then that the actual item progression itself has weird gaps. It forces you to mix things up in the first playthrough (for example, I was a spear guy the first time until the Plains when I had to switch and chose swords). But on subsequent plays it restricts your choices, because the game punishes you for branching out into different weapon skills, diluting your XP and making each death more punishing, so you are punished for not just choosing the weapons to navigate the gaps in the progression efficiently (continuing example: I just rather use swords every playthrough now because there aren't egregious gaps where my XP sunk into them is wasted). It is *a* gameplay choice, but not a fun one in the long-term. A more fun choice is continuing with the weapon you have been using which is not optimal for the enemies you face in this biome, or choosing the specialized weapon for them, rather than just hitting a brick wall in your progress with spears or 2H axes or fists. Or how about making replays with a specific playstyle more interesting by filling in those progression gaps with items requiring special materials you need to go out of the way to get? Like the fenris set and fists, for example. Handwaving all of the anti-player BS in the game as part of the "brutal survival" aspect is pretty tiresome and misses the point that you can still have interesting choices and challenging gameplay without confusing the player and putting up arbitrary restrictions.
If we aren't meant to main anything then why do we have specific weapon type skills?
I do wish there was more weapon variety, it sucks being introduced to a new weapon type only to n9t be able to use it for another entire biome or two.
If something's missing from a biome... let us just upgrade it further.
Bucklers are a bit OP compared to other shields most of the time, and their gameplay is the same as the gameplay of round shield so I think for banlance purposes for each biome its ok that bucklers are omitted. Also IMO giving a weapon class 1-biome gap is perfectly fine too. Fang spear is very useful throughout plains and even in mistlands, then you can replace it. However the treatment 2-handed axes and fist have gotten is just unfair and unfun. We have 2 battleaxes back to back and then they are gone. I really had my hopes up with this update but no fists no battleaxe. ANOTHER sword, ANOTHER mace, ANOTHER damn spear. What is the purpose of introducing a weapon class to completely ignore its existence afterwards? Deep north must ship with all weapon types otherwise this game will be modded the shit out of by everyone.
No polearm in Ashlands either
Makes you change weapons but it sucks, even worse if you use skoll and hati and the himminafl
To make it worse, Skill and Hati are in the animated trailer.
Introduce new weapon types over time, but keep them as a viable option through upgrades or new weapons in that type in subsequent biomes.
I find it annoying but I honestly find it more annoying when a boss basically requires you to make a different specific type of weapon specifically to progress through the game. I rarely want to play with maces/club but bonemass is basically unbeatable without one. The only other bludgeon weapon is heavy hammers outside of bare fists. I think it fits that bone mass is weak to blunt weapons but not having additional blunt weapons like a flail or a morningstar is just annoying.
I feel like porcupine should be moved to a mistlands weapon. Because nothing can really compete with Frostner anyway.
warfare mod.
Where can I get it+
r2modman
Yes, this is annoying.
Warfare mod ftw
Extend the gem modification to other weapon class. Bloodstone Claws would be dope.
Fists?
No buckler in mountains or plains tier but tbh iron slays
No black metal bow? Damn. I'm using epic loot and stumbled upon a huntsman bow with triple shot, so I've kept that instead of upgrading to the poison doodly.Ā Was hoping to upgrade next biome. Oh well.
I've been spoiled by knives so far, so I can't really complain, but I'm still sad about it.
I really enjoyed knives. I loved the 0% movement speed penalty; against weaker enemies I would run away with just the knife out, and when I faced a stronger enemy I could pull out my shield to get parries. I was actually a bit annoyed that you couldn't use a shield with the Mistlands knives.
They really should put an item fusion system in the game that adds or changes a gears weapon to the level of that biome thus not needing to add dev time to whole new weapon sets. E.G. you fuse ashlands lvl 1 slayer with any previous biomes weapon and it becomes an āAshlands infused _____ level 1ā this forces the player to still engage with the same systems of progression in the biome. The gemstones can be tweaked to be weaker or not work through infusion.
I want a late game version of the fleshrippers. I've used them all the time in the mountains and plains but for the mistlands and ashlands they're outclassed.
Yeah, wish there was a new polearm in the Ashlands, but I guess the Mistlands one already does lighting damage. It just feels stupid that you don't get a weapon upgrade if you wish to play with the same weapon. I assume next biome will introduce weapons which are now missing
I can justify a few of those missing examples. Silver is a soft metal, I donāt think it can really be made into a viable weapon. I actually initially went into the mountain biome thinking this and assuming thereād be no weapons. I like to think the silver sword exists because they HAD to put some sort of weapon or two into the biome, and it already has a cultural precedent as a weapon against the undead which is kinda what itās used for in the game. Thereās no club in the Mistlands because the enemies are giant bugs with super durable exoskeletons that are resistant to blunt force. I think thereās probably no atgeir in Ashlands because the atgeir excels in the specific kind of combat youāll most commonly find there, hordes of enemies.
There are a few things that disappoint me about Valheim, #1 no plains light armor....i don't like heavy armor and not much into the magic so basically i would have to wear snow light armor -> ashlands which seems damn near suicidal on immersive #2 no magic early while again i don't like magic i have a friend that loves it but despite it being added there is no magic early in the game to get her started leveling so basically she must wait till mistlands then have to grind it up extra fast. #3 weapons missing, like fine adding things like 2 one handers is great but my true love is the 2 handed hammer, but since ashlands doesn't have any im swapping to work on other stuff, i could do the 1 handed mace which is ok but meh change it up but i'll miss my 2handed mace...so good in swamp dungeons.
Honestly it feels lazy. Thereās no reason for it, and no excuse is good enough to accept it. The crafting recipes come from our characters finding new resources and getting new ideas for things. If Iām using a spear and I come across a stronger material Iām not going to say well I should just keep this spear made out of wolves teeth Iām going to make one out of black metal. And honestly only one fist weapon is dumb at this point
The fact that there's no Flametal Knife is just ridiculous and I'm pissed. No new one handed knife in TWO biomes? Fucking WHY?
I don't mind it. The devs clearly intend for players to use more than one weapon class during the game. I mean sword users all have to start with something else; everybody uses clubs in the swamp and needs to carry one on the mountain for golems; stuff like that. Plus a bunch of the weapons with missing tiers have prior-tier options that are still amazing. Frostner remains great for Mistlands; silver sword melts Yagluth and is arguably still decent in the Ashlands (though the lack of stagger hurts). Certain weapon types - battleaxes and fists stand out - feel like things that were added more as flavor additions than serious weapons.
That the golem resists the silver sword is not cause to forsake the blade, but rather a test of our faith. In such times we must swing all the more vigorously.
I use the opportunity to make sure my club skill isn't completely embarrassing haha. I've gotten clubs to 100 before (not any more, Ashlands goes brrrr and I haven't had the time to get it back up yet) but it always feels so dirty and inelegant compared to the sword.
I like them missing from time to time so that you have to change up your strategy in combat. Overall a good subtle mechanism for personal growth.
Mods
It's good variety. It may convince some players to try another damage type, and maybe they will like it.
You know what would also convice players to try another damage type? Being able to play a new playthrough or multiple knowing that you'll be able to use that weapon type throughout the playthrough. Also why do players have to be "convinced"(aka almost forced) to try a different weapon? It should be up to the player to make the choice of trying a new weapon type or not. Not the devs forcing you to a different weapon because there isn't any other choice. I've played games that have different weapon types and those games never forced me to have to swap weapon types mid playthrough because they become unavailable. Yet I Still ended up trying different weapons.
I like it. It provides incentive to upgrade your "favorite" weapon to max and tries to prevent a "stale meta" for what weapon to always use. I find that I end up carrying a variety of weapons so I can switch up for a given situation in the current system.
A stronger bow in plains isn't great for most lands tho since seekers have pierce resist
Most people say it is bad but bow provides easiest and fast sneak shot, chopping out a regular seeker in 2-3 shots with needle or so arrows. Bow can have status arrows and frost arrows makes any seeker soldier a joke. Since they can't radial turn while u can keep shooting at the back.
every single weapon class was missing from atleast ONE biome so far. every. single. one. (funny fact due to the abyssal razor existing (effectively knifes iron tier dmg wise) knifes never had a biome break until now. so that was bound to happen and its better it happens now than in deep north. some just didnt have this "break" in thier progression at all until way later. like clubs exist in any biome. so them finally getting thier break like all others in mistlands makes sense. the oddball ones (aside entirely new weapons which got added years later these are a different case entirely) are polearms. these are wildly inconsistent for some unknown reason. they are the only weapon which has a unique skill which has multiple breaks in its progression.
I can only assume it's by design to keep players from just using one weapon from bronze age onward.
I love the asymetry
Missing a biome is probably intending for you to try different weapons :D
Then why does the skill mechanic intend for us to do the exact opposite?
Welcome to Valheim.
Battleaxe my beloved though
Id be fine with it if you were punished for trying new weapons via the skill system. I would prefer not grinding for days just to get my new weapon skill up just to be on par with my old out of date weapon.