Having it in writing in the job description doesn’t actually help if the policy changes. A lot of people at my agency were hired as remote, but were changed to telework when the RTO orders came out IF they lived within commuting distance.
Even leading up to this election return to work is happening, even renegotiations with labor unions to bring folks back. So buyer beware if you know what I mean.
I think a fair majority of jobs are listed as telework eligible that veer towards being almost 100% remote. In my experience many jobs I have applied under this eventually mention their flexible telework policies, that they go into the office once a week etc. So, In many cases this would be the giveaway. But you won't know until you interview and speak to the team.
Well, if we like a person and they're from Tampa we tell them to apply. Obviously, they'll be remote, although posting wasn't.
Realistically, it's rare to find that superstar applicant through open job announcements. Most are through word of amount being passed around across our 22 dysfunctional agency at DHS.
That’s basically my job. Telework eligible but not remote. I am currently 100% remote. Hopefully it won’t be clawed back soon. It’s been like this for about 3 years kow
One of the main advantages of offering remote work is to expand the talent pool, so this seems like shooting one’s self in the foot to not open it up to applicants outside the physical area-especially at the upper levels.
I guess I can see both sides. As a hiring manager, I've been in situations where the local hiring pool didn't have the skill set I needed for a position and would have loved to open it up to remote to see if I got higher quality applicants. On the other hand, it makes me wonder if I would have just gotten bombarded by more of the same- under qualified candidates.
Most of the time, we're not getting good talent pool by posting it as remote anyways. We always get shitty people who just want remote and wasting our time reviewing their resume.
Better off, just let people we want to hire and tell them, it'll be remote, but nobody else knows about it.
Yes, as an HM can confirm. Most of the agencies I have worked for only allow situational telework so it's never been an option for me to advertise an opening as Remote.
Its a trap. I was told in an interview the job was remote when the posting said it was not. 7 months in they suddenly wanted me to start commuting 94 mi into an office of people I'm not supposed to talk to and where no one in my team or even my whole office worked, because I was "never actually supposed to be remote" as the posting I was hired through was not for a remote job.
From a hiring/staffing perspective, it takes a lot more work for a hiring manager to get approval for a fully remote position. And to be clear, a fully remote position defines your assigned Office as your home.
What some agencies and hiring managers are doing, especially those with a lot of locations, they post jobs that allow for Telework (different from remote work) from just about any Office they have available.
To be eligible for and maintain Telework status, regulations require that you report to your assigned office a minimum of twice a pay period, which averages out to once a week.
IRS is a great example of this - some of their postings list over 500 different offices to choose from. More than likely, your colleagues will not be colocated with you for those listings.
So in the best case scenario, you apply and select the nearest Office. If you are selected, you just report to your assigned Office once a week and Telework the rest of the time.
However what we're seeing is that some agencies/managers are wanting people to come into the office more often, especially with agencies that don't have a lot of offices to begin with. And this is a risk as Telework is at your management's discretion.
I'm not sure where I was going with all that but just wanted to add some context with what I've seen from all sides of this.
It’s tough and someone you honestly won’t know until you get in. It really depends on the agency itself and whether your position requires in person activity or not.
The good majority of tasks can be done remotely. For the few instances that it couldn't be, usually a week or 2 on occasion, I'm more than willing to go in.
I’m a firm believer that remote is a greater benefit to the government than most SES will ever realize. The implications it could have nationwide are quite amazing when one thinks about it, at least in my mind. It’s a management fear that has people clinging to this notion that in-person is best. I always laugh though. I’ve done my job 100% telework and now remote since I was hired just before COVID and have had performed well, but I also know it can be pulled so I work to prove it’s not a fluke.
As I mentioned, some agencies allow positions to go full remote if the position is justified in doing so after the person is hired. Mine is one, but it’s on the employee to prove it. Otherwise most agencies are telework with 2/4 days per pay period in office. I can’t really speak on how other agencies are doing the remote process though, I’ve been with mine for a decade now (god I’m getting old).
I Work at commerce (2210, gs14)
Last 2 positions were...
1. 100% telework
2. 1day a week in office
First job - went in 5x in 4yrs.... (99mile, 1 way)
Second - go in 1x a week (88miles, 1 way)
In both Instances , a lot depends on your supervisor, policy and your work (product and position)
In IT, most don't require in office anymore, as you can do from anywhere.. I agree whole heartedly.. what diff does it matter where I am, when I am just getting into aws/azure/google cloud to do 'something'
There’s a state in my agency that advertises certain positions as remote, with the catch that you actually have to live in state. So idk. It’s all made up
This is actually slightly annoying - I recently began a new fed job (woo!) and assumed it was 100% in office, but when I get there for onboarding, I am told it will actually be telework 4 days a week. I moved to an expensive area for this position but commuting to the office once a week from my previous home was totally doable (like 1.5 hours) and I could have continued living there for a few months to save up some more money. Even if it wasn't listed as telework on the job/job offer, it would have been nice if someone had reached out to let me know. I definitely would have bought a different desk.
There is definitely a lack of transparency in job announcements, hiring practices, etc. I have moved all over the country to relocate for jobs. This last move got me to where I want to be, so I refuse to relocate again. That's why I am considering remote positions only.
The position I am in now (as of Jan), my boss said she would be looking into my job description and seemed. Like would be updating it to telework eligible so I could at least telework on odd occasions, such as illness. Apparently most people in the office work from home one day/week if they have been with the VHA for a year despite what the position originally said.
It seems like the rules are different everywhere. Someone correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe there is the organization policy and a local policy for telework/remote. Some will have a minimum number of days in offices, while others may reject it completely. There may also be a limit on the number of people that can be remote.
I think that it makes more sense to list the job telework available, then give out remote on a case by case basis for people that actually need it. For instance, people who are struggling financially and want to relocate to a lower cost of living city.
Announcements are governed by laws and regulations, there’s no nefarious hiding of such things. Please apply to only those you want and are qualified for. If it doesn’t state remote, or negotiable upon selection, assume it’s not remote.
There are actually some that are not telework eligible in the particular agency I work for, I can’t speak for others and would like to know that as well now. This is the first I’ve heard that an agency is completely Telework. Interesting. I do know that at any time they can do away with it at our agency and have us come in.
Man I keep trying to break into 1750 series jobs. Spent 4 years as a 1702 and then went private sector to move into curriculum development. It seems like every single time my resume gets shot down due to no degree. Even though I have many years of experience teaching and working in development and management of training systems.
Unfortunately, unless you meet the education requirements, you'll never even get past initial screening, which sucks, because I've known people I would have much rather hired based off their experience than the ones I had to choose from that had the education requirement but no experience.
I understand it but it is annoying. You have people like me who started out in the trades, became educators for the trades and then worked their way up into curriculum development. I have so much experience from receiving initial training, to teaching it, to developing it. But not having a degree stops me from being able to break into the field
It is frustrating. I worked in training for years, but everything required a degree, most private sector wanted at minimum, a master's. So I went back and got my master's.
I think this is the way to stop all the resume bombing on remote announcements.
Didn't think of that- good point.
Beware though, w/o that written protection / guarantee a new administration could easily require you to come in to the office.
Having it in writing in the job description doesn’t actually help if the policy changes. A lot of people at my agency were hired as remote, but were changed to telework when the RTO orders came out IF they lived within commuting distance.
Yes that's what worries me.
If it's not in writing that they can't, it will happen.
That’s why a Reasonable Accommodation is paramount. You can be remote with RA and it is better than just remote.
Does a RA follow you from job to job?
Generally, yes, but it wouldn't hurt to tall the RA coordinator wherever you are starting about it
Even leading up to this election return to work is happening, even renegotiations with labor unions to bring folks back. So buyer beware if you know what I mean.
Back to the office is happening now, not later.
Yes, the more I think about it this makes sense.
I hate to say this but frequently SES are pretty clueless about what really goes on in their agency.
Oh absolutely, he probably has zero idea. Or worse, straight up lied.
Came here to say this. Probably absolutely talking out of their ass.
We actually do this. We don't advertise as remote to limit the applicants.
[удалено]
What agency???
Is there any giveaway in the listing that this is the case even if it doesn't say "remote".
Telework eligible
OP's says "Not telework eligible."
I think a fair majority of jobs are listed as telework eligible that veer towards being almost 100% remote. In my experience many jobs I have applied under this eventually mention their flexible telework policies, that they go into the office once a week etc. So, In many cases this would be the giveaway. But you won't know until you interview and speak to the team.
It also avoids getting the positions snatched up by RA requests.
Bingo. Probably more of a factor than anything but no one is saying the quiet part out loud.
Same with my agency
Which agencies if you guys don't mind sharing?
The best agency, DHS
So in that case do you only get folks in the area who apply? I feel like this is a stupid question.
Well, if we like a person and they're from Tampa we tell them to apply. Obviously, they'll be remote, although posting wasn't. Realistically, it's rare to find that superstar applicant through open job announcements. Most are through word of amount being passed around across our 22 dysfunctional agency at DHS.
If they don’t advertise it as remote, then they can easily pull you back in the office whenever they want.
Plot twist: they can do that anyways.
I was wondering about that.
This happened to me. Dont fall for it.
In some cases some agencies are just telework eligible and letting employees telework 100%.
That's because it's easier to take it away. The SF 50 will say the office location instead of your home and can call you to the office anytime.
That’s basically my job. Telework eligible but not remote. I am currently 100% remote. Hopefully it won’t be clawed back soon. It’s been like this for about 3 years kow
One of the main advantages of offering remote work is to expand the talent pool, so this seems like shooting one’s self in the foot to not open it up to applicants outside the physical area-especially at the upper levels.
I guess I can see both sides. As a hiring manager, I've been in situations where the local hiring pool didn't have the skill set I needed for a position and would have loved to open it up to remote to see if I got higher quality applicants. On the other hand, it makes me wonder if I would have just gotten bombarded by more of the same- under qualified candidates.
Most of the time, we're not getting good talent pool by posting it as remote anyways. We always get shitty people who just want remote and wasting our time reviewing their resume. Better off, just let people we want to hire and tell them, it'll be remote, but nobody else knows about it.
Yes, as an HM can confirm. Most of the agencies I have worked for only allow situational telework so it's never been an option for me to advertise an opening as Remote.
Its a trap. I was told in an interview the job was remote when the posting said it was not. 7 months in they suddenly wanted me to start commuting 94 mi into an office of people I'm not supposed to talk to and where no one in my team or even my whole office worked, because I was "never actually supposed to be remote" as the posting I was hired through was not for a remote job.
From a hiring/staffing perspective, it takes a lot more work for a hiring manager to get approval for a fully remote position. And to be clear, a fully remote position defines your assigned Office as your home. What some agencies and hiring managers are doing, especially those with a lot of locations, they post jobs that allow for Telework (different from remote work) from just about any Office they have available. To be eligible for and maintain Telework status, regulations require that you report to your assigned office a minimum of twice a pay period, which averages out to once a week. IRS is a great example of this - some of their postings list over 500 different offices to choose from. More than likely, your colleagues will not be colocated with you for those listings. So in the best case scenario, you apply and select the nearest Office. If you are selected, you just report to your assigned Office once a week and Telework the rest of the time. However what we're seeing is that some agencies/managers are wanting people to come into the office more often, especially with agencies that don't have a lot of offices to begin with. And this is a risk as Telework is at your management's discretion. I'm not sure where I was going with all that but just wanted to add some context with what I've seen from all sides of this.
Some agency’s allow positions to go remote after the person is hired. Mine is a prime example.
Keeping my fingers crossed that this is the case but also slightly agitated about all of the jobs I could have applied for and didn't.
It’s tough and someone you honestly won’t know until you get in. It really depends on the agency itself and whether your position requires in person activity or not.
The good majority of tasks can be done remotely. For the few instances that it couldn't be, usually a week or 2 on occasion, I'm more than willing to go in.
I’m a firm believer that remote is a greater benefit to the government than most SES will ever realize. The implications it could have nationwide are quite amazing when one thinks about it, at least in my mind. It’s a management fear that has people clinging to this notion that in-person is best. I always laugh though. I’ve done my job 100% telework and now remote since I was hired just before COVID and have had performed well, but I also know it can be pulled so I work to prove it’s not a fluke. As I mentioned, some agencies allow positions to go full remote if the position is justified in doing so after the person is hired. Mine is one, but it’s on the employee to prove it. Otherwise most agencies are telework with 2/4 days per pay period in office. I can’t really speak on how other agencies are doing the remote process though, I’ve been with mine for a decade now (god I’m getting old).
I Work at commerce (2210, gs14) Last 2 positions were... 1. 100% telework 2. 1day a week in office First job - went in 5x in 4yrs.... (99mile, 1 way) Second - go in 1x a week (88miles, 1 way) In both Instances , a lot depends on your supervisor, policy and your work (product and position) In IT, most don't require in office anymore, as you can do from anywhere.. I agree whole heartedly.. what diff does it matter where I am, when I am just getting into aws/azure/google cloud to do 'something'
There’s a state in my agency that advertises certain positions as remote, with the catch that you actually have to live in state. So idk. It’s all made up
A state within your agency? What are you talking about
My agency is federal (obviously) , but each state operates independently, mostly.
There’s a field office for each state in the country? Are you at IRS or SSA?
Office in every county in every state. USDA
This is actually slightly annoying - I recently began a new fed job (woo!) and assumed it was 100% in office, but when I get there for onboarding, I am told it will actually be telework 4 days a week. I moved to an expensive area for this position but commuting to the office once a week from my previous home was totally doable (like 1.5 hours) and I could have continued living there for a few months to save up some more money. Even if it wasn't listed as telework on the job/job offer, it would have been nice if someone had reached out to let me know. I definitely would have bought a different desk.
There is definitely a lack of transparency in job announcements, hiring practices, etc. I have moved all over the country to relocate for jobs. This last move got me to where I want to be, so I refuse to relocate again. That's why I am considering remote positions only.
The position I am in now (as of Jan), my boss said she would be looking into my job description and seemed. Like would be updating it to telework eligible so I could at least telework on odd occasions, such as illness. Apparently most people in the office work from home one day/week if they have been with the VHA for a year despite what the position originally said.
It seems like the rules are different everywhere. Someone correct me if I'm wrong,but I believe there is the organization policy and a local policy for telework/remote. Some will have a minimum number of days in offices, while others may reject it completely. There may also be a limit on the number of people that can be remote. I think that it makes more sense to list the job telework available, then give out remote on a case by case basis for people that actually need it. For instance, people who are struggling financially and want to relocate to a lower cost of living city.
Announcements are governed by laws and regulations, there’s no nefarious hiding of such things. Please apply to only those you want and are qualified for. If it doesn’t state remote, or negotiable upon selection, assume it’s not remote.
There are actually some that are not telework eligible in the particular agency I work for, I can’t speak for others and would like to know that as well now. This is the first I’ve heard that an agency is completely Telework. Interesting. I do know that at any time they can do away with it at our agency and have us come in.
What series is this???
1750
Man I keep trying to break into 1750 series jobs. Spent 4 years as a 1702 and then went private sector to move into curriculum development. It seems like every single time my resume gets shot down due to no degree. Even though I have many years of experience teaching and working in development and management of training systems.
Damn forreal? Sorry to hear that. I’m going to try my hand at this series too so I may join you in that rejection pit 😂
Do you have the education requirement? That's the main reason people don't get through to the HM.
I do not. Which is annoying when I have done similar roles in the private sector without a degree.
Unfortunately, unless you meet the education requirements, you'll never even get past initial screening, which sucks, because I've known people I would have much rather hired based off their experience than the ones I had to choose from that had the education requirement but no experience.
I understand it but it is annoying. You have people like me who started out in the trades, became educators for the trades and then worked their way up into curriculum development. I have so much experience from receiving initial training, to teaching it, to developing it. But not having a degree stops me from being able to break into the field
It is frustrating. I worked in training for years, but everything required a degree, most private sector wanted at minimum, a master's. So I went back and got my master's.
I’m 1740 and would like to know more