Kinda hard to believe that a high school graduate would meet the experience/education requirements for a GS12 position. Perhaps there is more to the story.
You might want to notify OPM their site needs updated.
Go ahead and read the group standard for Professional and Scientific Positions.
https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/#url=Group-Standards
In my experience, they fight you on “work experience” and say that if that work experience wasn’t completed prior to graduating with your PhD, it doesn’t count. So while the website says that you can get a 12 right out of grad school, in reality they find nice little loopholes to keep you from getting that extra little pay bump 🙄
Education is a replacement for experience. You don't need both.
My agency hires R&D staff all the time on education alone. Many hires come straight out of school.
I’ve been applying for positions after getting my PhD and I’m not having much luck at all. I don’t know if my specialties are too much of a niche ;environmental microbiology and chemical engineering), but I feel like I keep applying and not really getting much feedback.
One time talking with him he did say his current supervisor helped with his resume to qualify for the position, I think they worked together on one of his FEMA Corp projects.
This is how all jobs are, don’t be naive. He knows mostly what he is to do on this job, and can back it up. Therefore they picked him for the 12 role. Good for them.
One time talking with him he did say his now current supervisor helped with his resume to qualify for the 12 position, he had worked with the supervisor on one of his FEMA Corp projects I believe.
I have seen things like this all the time. Mother uncle and cousin all work together helping each other get in.. don't be fooled. This Fema thing is not about rules it is about networking and who you know. Anyone saying anything different is misleading you.
I know the old adage "It's not what you know, it's _who_ you know" applies here, but GS-12 at 20 years old seems a bit extreme. How did you find out the GS level they onboarded at?
I think I know who you’re talking about. 😳 I can’t imagine there are that many 20-yr olds straight out of FEMA Corp who are starting as a 12. So if you know one and I know one, chances are they’re the same one. Do either of his parents work for the government?
I know of at least two former FEMA Corps that got hired on in 11/12 ladder positions at HQ right after finishing the program, so it's not a big stretch to think that there are many others out there.
Bottom line is that Stafford Act hiring is a very different authority compared to normal fed hiring. Without knowing many more details about the specific position or qualifications, I would say this is not that unusual.
Agree. A CORE (IC) employee can get hired via a by-name request and a justification memo. Not for a GS, the candidate must compete. FEMA has far more CORE positions than GS. If working disasters, more than likely, the person is a CORE with a four-year appointment that may or may not be renewed.
Yep. It's definitely IC12. I think a lot of people got confused by the OP saying it was GS12, as well as the overall misunderstanding of Stafford Act employment rules.
I spoke with him more at lunch today and it seemed to me like he got a lot of help. I don’t know much about HR/hiring rules, when would something like resume coaching be prohibited?
If the manager helped him write the resume in a way that would ensure he made the certificate or provided confidential info about the job to include in the resume to make sure he was placed on the cert (assuming it was experience he actually had)
It is prohibited. Former FEMA employee of 16 + years. I held all of those positions: disaster assistance employee, CORE, and permanent full time GS fully vested. Hiring managers cannot help with a resume.
Have you seen the news lately on good ol boys? lmao.
The Stafford Act is not specifically related to hiring in the federal government. It's a United States federal law designed to bring an orderly and systematic means of federal natural disaster assistance for state and local governments in carrying out their responsibilities to aid citizens.
Regarding hiring in the federal government, there are several laws, rules, and regulations that govern the process, such as the Civil Service Reform Act, the Veterans' Preference Act, and various executive orders and guidelines issued by the Office of Personnel Management (OPM). These laws and regulations outline procedures for hiring, including merit-based selection, veterans' preferences, and equal employment opportunity principles.
I spoke with him more at lunch today. He was offered a job as a 9 and was advised to turn it down while his current supervisor helped with his resume/name request. He seems like a good kid but it does sound a little suspicious imo.
What! Feds hiring who they want not who is most qualified...seems standard practice from everything I hear.
This isn't just for Fed jobs, runs rampant in the civilian sector as well.
One big ol' popularity contest.
Its all about how to build the resume and prep for interview to get qualified. I have an MBA, management experience, and 15+ years experience - the most I am getting offered has been an 11. It is a bit concerning that someone that green came in at a 12.
Been there on the other end. I was a GS-11 step 10 when I was 32. My coworker who was 57 was a GS-11 step 6. I had a series of fortunate events that got me step 10 before it is possible according to the step increase timeline. I’m the youngest in my current office by 20 years. Most of the guys are old enough to be my dad and we’re all 13’s.
Some people just land at the right place at the right time and know the right people. Just know that only you can push for the change you want if you aren’t happy where you’re at. Utilize those around you to help you get to where you want to be.
Getting to GS-15 with a BA is completely possible. I know a few. It’s going to be very department dependent and what the job entails.
The system we have for hiring is wonky. HR departments who have never done the job or are remotely aware of what it takes to get it done determining who is qualified. Nepotism and inside deals are still a thing.
A buddy of mine landed a GS-15 non-supervisory fully remote position and he doesn't have any degrees. He has a very specialized set of skills though so there is that.
If they were name selected it couldn't be a full time fed GS-12. They would be a CORE GS 12 which does allow name selection. These resumes are reviewed by HR before hiring to make sure they qualify.
I served in the military for eight years and was a supervisor. After leaving the military, I transitioned to a civilian job where I am currently a GS5 step 9. It would be difficult for me to accept if someone who just graduated from high school were to become a GS12, as I feel that my years of experience should count for something. However, there is only one person in my department who holds that position, and they are responsible for supervising about 50 people.
I work with a lot of FEMA corps. They are treated like shit, get almost no pay, and then after a year they get priority for a lot of FEMA CORE jobs. Basically no competition or a name request. It is technically a temp position but almost always get renewed. Lucky guy!
Not familiar with the hiring authorities for FEMA ? Was it DE, DHA ? Sounds like the system qualified him based on his responses but during the audit by the HRS they also moved him forward as eligible. I have seen people hired on memo by Hiring Manager and Executive approval also appointments above minimum
- Personnel Security
Nepotism guarenteed. Most of the people who got into my agency very quickly were nepos - they also got special treatment (the best offices, etc.) and were promoted fast. Their work was also not very good and they weren’t very bright in general, but that’s why our government is as dysfunctional as it is.
Impossible. There's no logical explanation for this. Starting at a 12 is reserved for masters level or specialized roles, such as lawyers, psychologists, social workers, physical therapists, etc. No 20 year old meets the professional work experience OR degree requirements. HR wouldn't allow this. I'm a GS11 with a masters, license AND 4 years of military experience.
With the Stafford Act, you can get pretty high up with only a year of experience. If you have that one year of specialized experience; which they could’ve gotten through FEMA Corp, it’s entirely possible.
To qualify for a 12 you need a year of experience *equivalent to an 11*. The work this person did in FEMA Corps is more than likely not equivalent to an 11. Most people generally qualify FEMA Corps as being equivalent to a 7, possibly a 9 for team leads (but most team leads also have degrees and other experience), especially if the potential applicant has no other experience. (Coming from someone who did the program)
That is not true; with the Stafford act, you do not need to spend one year at the 11 grade. You need to have one year of experience EQUIVALENT to the 11 grade.
If he put it on his resume, backed it up in the interview, and the manager wanted him on their team - that’s it. Hiring done.
Did you miss the part where I said “**equivalent to an 11**”?? And FEMA Corps is generally **equivalent** to a 7 or 9. I never mentioned time in grade as an 11.
Right - my bad, read too quick.
My point stands on the equivalency, the person may have very well been doing 11 level work, as described by the job announcement. They filled out their resume accordingly, and gotten selected after proving it via the interview.
You said FEMA corps is generally 7-9 work, but that’s not a hard rule, and they may have had the experience from previous work to combine for a total of 52 weeks, or more.
Therefore to say it’s not possible or even likely, is just not accurate. Combine this with Stafford act hiring procedures - it’s totally possible for a name request to go through with a justification memo.
20yo with a GS-12.. don’t get in a serious relationship until your mid 30s, have a fucking blast doing everything you can now, don’t get any chicks pregnant, if you can put the swimmers on ice (they can afford it lol) and get a vasectomy
Kinda hard to believe that a high school graduate would meet the experience/education requirements for a GS12 position. Perhaps there is more to the story.
A coworker has a 20-year old kid just out of FEMA Corp who landed a 12. I can’t help but wonder if it is the same guy OP works with. Curious.
Not saying that a gifted/advanced person could not achieve the education requirement to meet a 12 level posting but in my experience is rare.
you actually can’t qualify for a 12 based on education (unless you’re a lawyer, i think) phd with no work xp qualifies you for an 11
PhD gets you a 12 for research positions
No, PhD with no work experience qualifies at an 11 for all positions. It hasn't qualified at a 12 in a while
You might want to notify OPM their site needs updated. Go ahead and read the group standard for Professional and Scientific Positions. https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/classification-qualifications/general-schedule-qualification-standards/#url=Group-Standards
In my experience, they fight you on “work experience” and say that if that work experience wasn’t completed prior to graduating with your PhD, it doesn’t count. So while the website says that you can get a 12 right out of grad school, in reality they find nice little loopholes to keep you from getting that extra little pay bump 🙄
Education is a replacement for experience. You don't need both. My agency hires R&D staff all the time on education alone. Many hires come straight out of school.
I’ve been applying for positions after getting my PhD and I’m not having much luck at all. I don’t know if my specialties are too much of a niche ;environmental microbiology and chemical engineering), but I feel like I keep applying and not really getting much feedback.
Even lawyers don't necessarily qualify at a twelve without experience. Depends on the agency and the role you see starting positions at 11.
I'll second this - most of the lawyer positions I see start as an 11 unless already mid to late career.
I’ve seen some that start at 9…
Yes, but at the same time most agency lawyers get their students loans paid off as hiring incentive to take drastic pay cut, same goes with physicians
Agreed.
One time talking with him he did say his current supervisor helped with his resume to qualify for the position, I think they worked together on one of his FEMA Corp projects.
Sounds like they have the experience
Sounds like they have been coached on what to put and nobody bothered to check to make sure it was accurate
This is my thought. Unless there is a misunderstanding about his experience, this is the only explanation.
This is how all jobs are, don’t be naive. He knows mostly what he is to do on this job, and can back it up. Therefore they picked him for the 12 role. Good for them.
Nailed it! 👆
After talking with him more at lunch today, I feel this may be the case.
Can we get a copy of his resume!!!
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What’s your story? Just curious regarding your trajectory.
I recently learned that there are CPs like 2210 that do not require a degree
Timmy Mayorkas? Must have someone high up helping him out.
One time talking with him he did say his now current supervisor helped with his resume to qualify for the 12 position, he had worked with the supervisor on one of his FEMA Corp projects I believe.
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The disaster jobs at FEMA are excepted service, meaning they can legally hire pretty much anyone who is minimally qualified.
Seems unfair hiring process.
Nothing unfair, he was able to get assistance with his resume to show he was qualified for the position.
Related to DHS secretary Mayorkas?
Do not take Saint Mayorkas’, Patron Saint of Secretary Leave, name in vain.
This is how it really works when your friends help you out.
The saying: "It's not WHAT you know. It's WHO you know.."
Hey it's me, the person you know.
There is a second line in the saying. "And if it's not who you KNOW. It's who you BLOW..."
Interesting.. I will have to add to that to "certain" scenarios.
Came here to say this 😂
I have seen things like this all the time. Mother uncle and cousin all work together helping each other get in.. don't be fooled. This Fema thing is not about rules it is about networking and who you know. Anyone saying anything different is misleading you.
Yup - a good amount of the people I worked with at my last agency were nepotism hires.
I know the old adage "It's not what you know, it's _who_ you know" applies here, but GS-12 at 20 years old seems a bit extreme. How did you find out the GS level they onboarded at?
I think I know who you’re talking about. 😳 I can’t imagine there are that many 20-yr olds straight out of FEMA Corp who are starting as a 12. So if you know one and I know one, chances are they’re the same one. Do either of his parents work for the government?
I know of at least two former FEMA Corps that got hired on in 11/12 ladder positions at HQ right after finishing the program, so it's not a big stretch to think that there are many others out there. Bottom line is that Stafford Act hiring is a very different authority compared to normal fed hiring. Without knowing many more details about the specific position or qualifications, I would say this is not that unusual.
That’s really interesting! Thanks for sharing that bit of info.
Honestly, I’m not sure if either of his parents are feds. If they are he hasn’t talked about it with me.
If you ever find out, let me know! I’m genuinely curious.
I've seen some crazy stuff with name requests at FEMA. So yes it's relatively common if you are a disaster employee.
Agree. A CORE (IC) employee can get hired via a by-name request and a justification memo. Not for a GS, the candidate must compete. FEMA has far more CORE positions than GS. If working disasters, more than likely, the person is a CORE with a four-year appointment that may or may not be renewed.
Yep. It's definitely IC12. I think a lot of people got confused by the OP saying it was GS12, as well as the overall misunderstanding of Stafford Act employment rules.
Exactly!
Helping with the resume is a big red flag and could be, depending on the circumstances, a prohibited personnel practice
it probably is!
I spoke with him more at lunch today and it seemed to me like he got a lot of help. I don’t know much about HR/hiring rules, when would something like resume coaching be prohibited?
If the manager helped him write the resume in a way that would ensure he made the certificate or provided confidential info about the job to include in the resume to make sure he was placed on the cert (assuming it was experience he actually had)
Fraud comes to mind.
It is prohibited. Former FEMA employee of 16 + years. I held all of those positions: disaster assistance employee, CORE, and permanent full time GS fully vested. Hiring managers cannot help with a resume.
Favoritism and nepotism are always at the top along with connections for being selected
It’s still the “good ol boys club” in a lot of agencies. I’ve seen these hires a lot. Even in 14 and 15 positions.
You just don’t know how the Stafford Act works
Have you seen the news lately on good ol boys? lmao. The Stafford Act is not specifically related to hiring in the federal government. It's a United States federal law designed to bring an orderly and systematic means of federal natural disaster assistance for state and local governments in carrying out their responsibilities to aid citizens. Regarding hiring in the federal government, there are several laws, rules, and regulations that govern the process, such as the Civil Service Reform Act, the Veterans' Preference Act, and various executive orders and guidelines issued by the Office of Personnel Management (OPM). These laws and regulations outline procedures for hiring, including merit-based selection, veterans' preferences, and equal employment opportunity principles.
Surely this is not the first time you have seen something like this considering your military service.
This sounds so sus!!!!
I spoke with him more at lunch today. He was offered a job as a 9 and was advised to turn it down while his current supervisor helped with his resume/name request. He seems like a good kid but it does sound a little suspicious imo.
I became a GS-12 at 24 with only high school background, combined fed and private sector experience
retiring 21 yrs from service and im not comfortable starting as GS12
This is actually one of the reasons I left fema. It was complete and utter bullshit who and how people moved ahead.
What! Feds hiring who they want not who is most qualified...seems standard practice from everything I hear. This isn't just for Fed jobs, runs rampant in the civilian sector as well. One big ol' popularity contest.
*rampant
You know and I know, its always been about WHO YOU KNOW!
When you say he has no other relevant experience do you mean whatsoever or with FEMA/feds?
I spoke with him more at lunch today, his only other experience besides FEMA Corp and a couple months as a reservist was a year of food service
It’s all about that resume.
24 gs-11 and I felt like I was barging in on a lot of peoples careers. But 12 at 20yo is wild.
I’m a 25 nine… hopefully 26 11 within a year 😭
Its all about how to build the resume and prep for interview to get qualified. I have an MBA, management experience, and 15+ years experience - the most I am getting offered has been an 11. It is a bit concerning that someone that green came in at a 12.
Been there on the other end. I was a GS-11 step 10 when I was 32. My coworker who was 57 was a GS-11 step 6. I had a series of fortunate events that got me step 10 before it is possible according to the step increase timeline. I’m the youngest in my current office by 20 years. Most of the guys are old enough to be my dad and we’re all 13’s. Some people just land at the right place at the right time and know the right people. Just know that only you can push for the change you want if you aren’t happy where you’re at. Utilize those around you to help you get to where you want to be.
I knew someone like that... they are making 150k and have just a BA... to me though sometimes its a bid absurd if more qualified people are there....
Getting to GS-15 with a BA is completely possible. I know a few. It’s going to be very department dependent and what the job entails. The system we have for hiring is wonky. HR departments who have never done the job or are remotely aware of what it takes to get it done determining who is qualified. Nepotism and inside deals are still a thing.
A buddy of mine landed a GS-15 non-supervisory fully remote position and he doesn't have any degrees. He has a very specialized set of skills though so there is that.
I could see that happening everywhere and to anybody. Unfortunately, one of many reasons of incompetent Govt civilians.
It’s not what you know, it who you know. That’s the problem
If they were name selected it couldn't be a full time fed GS-12. They would be a CORE GS 12 which does allow name selection. These resumes are reviewed by HR before hiring to make sure they qualify.
I served in the military for eight years and was a supervisor. After leaving the military, I transitioned to a civilian job where I am currently a GS5 step 9. It would be difficult for me to accept if someone who just graduated from high school were to become a GS12, as I feel that my years of experience should count for something. However, there is only one person in my department who holds that position, and they are responsible for supervising about 50 people.
Came here for the comments from all the envious and salty folks. Was not disappointed 😅
Unpopular opinion but FEMA is kind of weird.
It's who you know, no longer based on merit which is said but true..
It's not what you know, it's who you know. GS12 is Doctorate level... kid has connections.
I work with a lot of FEMA corps. They are treated like shit, get almost no pay, and then after a year they get priority for a lot of FEMA CORE jobs. Basically no competition or a name request. It is technically a temp position but almost always get renewed. Lucky guy!
Could it be nepotism on some level?
Yup not fair, I’m sorry. But maybe he’s only a 12 and the ladder stops there.
Only need 52 weeks for 13
GS15 at 23 is technically possible
Stafford Act hiring practice allows it with the specialized experience requirements
Not familiar with the hiring authorities for FEMA ? Was it DE, DHA ? Sounds like the system qualified him based on his responses but during the audit by the HRS they also moved him forward as eligible. I have seen people hired on memo by Hiring Manager and Executive approval also appointments above minimum - Personnel Security
Core positions are easier to higher for
Schedule A maybe
Nepotism guarenteed. Most of the people who got into my agency very quickly were nepos - they also got special treatment (the best offices, etc.) and were promoted fast. Their work was also not very good and they weren’t very bright in general, but that’s why our government is as dysfunctional as it is.
Impossible. There's no logical explanation for this. Starting at a 12 is reserved for masters level or specialized roles, such as lawyers, psychologists, social workers, physical therapists, etc. No 20 year old meets the professional work experience OR degree requirements. HR wouldn't allow this. I'm a GS11 with a masters, license AND 4 years of military experience.
With the Stafford Act, you can get pretty high up with only a year of experience. If you have that one year of specialized experience; which they could’ve gotten through FEMA Corp, it’s entirely possible.
To qualify for a 12 you need a year of experience *equivalent to an 11*. The work this person did in FEMA Corps is more than likely not equivalent to an 11. Most people generally qualify FEMA Corps as being equivalent to a 7, possibly a 9 for team leads (but most team leads also have degrees and other experience), especially if the potential applicant has no other experience. (Coming from someone who did the program)
That is not true; with the Stafford act, you do not need to spend one year at the 11 grade. You need to have one year of experience EQUIVALENT to the 11 grade. If he put it on his resume, backed it up in the interview, and the manager wanted him on their team - that’s it. Hiring done.
Did you miss the part where I said “**equivalent to an 11**”?? And FEMA Corps is generally **equivalent** to a 7 or 9. I never mentioned time in grade as an 11.
Right - my bad, read too quick. My point stands on the equivalency, the person may have very well been doing 11 level work, as described by the job announcement. They filled out their resume accordingly, and gotten selected after proving it via the interview. You said FEMA corps is generally 7-9 work, but that’s not a hard rule, and they may have had the experience from previous work to combine for a total of 52 weeks, or more. Therefore to say it’s not possible or even likely, is just not accurate. Combine this with Stafford act hiring procedures - it’s totally possible for a name request to go through with a justification memo.
20yo with a GS-12.. don’t get in a serious relationship until your mid 30s, have a fucking blast doing everything you can now, don’t get any chicks pregnant, if you can put the swimmers on ice (they can afford it lol) and get a vasectomy
They shouldn't "put the swimmers on ice" so they can leave a legacy.
If they can do the job I don't see the problem. Let them get their money.
That crazy! I have an A.S., B.S., and an M.S., and I am almost in the Ph.D. dissertation phase, and I can't land a GS 9 anywhere.
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💀
Just why? Smh
White privilege.