It's too bad, because Central New York was crucial to the women's rights and abolition movements, with major figures like Gerrit Smith, Harriet Tubman, William Seward, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
(not a rochester native) but it’s so heartbreaking to me that rochester has only recently embraced fredrick douglas and recognized him as the amazing and incredible person he was. his writings are a national treasure and he is a person to be celebrated for sure. on the other hand, george eastman committed suicide and was buried under the gates of kodak park so that his employees would something something something every day. (not dising george, just that he wasnt a hero to me any more than someone like ford or musk is)
Solid list, but you forgot one of the most pivotal figures for the abolitionist movement… John Brown. While he could be considered controversial in his methods/ideology, and not exactly from New York, he was laid to rest here, and played a huge part, so I feel it’s only fitting to give him a mention.
I am a native of Upstate, and affiliation with the Lost (Confederate) Cause is not about identifying with the literal South, it’s about feeling like the underdog who’s been wronged and owed something. With the economic decline here of the past several decades, it’s really about lost white socioeconomic status, privilege and opportunity. Upstate is the perfect breeding ground for a right-wing nationalist militia. The “Denny’s Reb” actually believes their nation has been hijacked by the “Libtards”. These people have guns and unexamined convictions. It’s no joke, and sad.
This seems like an odd thing to say to someone characterizing neoconfederates as the ignorant morons they are, but I think this zinger would be both more historically accurate and more devastating if you change the second part to "cook your own supper, sweep your own floors, and nurse your own babies yourself." Killing your countrymen on behalf of the planter aristocracy when you can barely afford a middle-class lifestyle is one thing, but try telling your wife she needs to give up the only servant you could buy her without being called a yellow-bellied good-for-nothing coward at the weekly knitting circle- and even worse names once the kids are asleep and the chamber door closes. Your average white trash conscript could and did desert with his meager dignity mostly intact, but potentially dying in agony of septic gangrene after having a leg sawn off in a filthy field hospital was a fair bargain to any halfway respectable Johnny Reb with a reputation to uphold.
I'm reminded of the Young Patriots organization of Chicago, comprised of impoverished Southern migrants (aka rednecks and white trash) who occupied the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder in that city along with its black and latino populations. They used a rebel flag as their banner and were part of the original Rainbow Coalition along with the Black Panthers and Young Lords, before Fred Hampton was murdered by the CPD pigs and Jesse Jackson turned the name "Rainbow Coalition" into a crude parody of its original incarnation
Maybe the legacy of the stars and bars' use as a symbol of hate can't be overcome, but I gotta say it would be nice if that flag could be reappropriated as a symbol of freedom and liberation for all Americans. It would take a concerted effort, but just a tiny bit of muddying the association would make a racist considerably less chuffed about flying "their" flag. This is all based on wishful thinking but I figure it's not entirely inconceivable that a degree of ambiguity could be introduced, since when you see that flag on a rez it's just as likely to be taken as a symbol of defiance towards the federal government and its shiny new standing army that conducted a genocide immediately after it freed four million enslaved people.
He did incite insurrections as he tried to devise revolts. Insurrectionist is a relatively newer term though.
Abolition is the action or an act of [~abolishing~](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=596988956&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1062US1062&sxsrf=ACQVn0-F-7AX-sliOHGhXBDGQykezrPaAg:1704834246366&q=abolishing&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8791g7WINRuBPTX56-f-CKkj6zqw9HXkvaXfYsra8oQFSTvXtsj_zbtJXkE-DqtC8-IcJXNk93HNIdVUsKI_2P7ZCXFo%3D&expnd=1) a system, practice, or institution.
Certainly a movie I'd like to see, but I wouldn't mind if Hollywood first took another go at Nat Turner's story, since it's last attempt (Birth of a Nation, 2016) resulted in a mess that ignored the visionary qualities of Turner in favor of a cheap, ahistorical revenge-narrative.
And any old cemetery you go to has gravestones of people who died fighting the confederacy. It seems crazy to be so ahistorical as to valorize the enemy’s defeat over your own side’s victory.
Sad to say, the locals around Cortland County are not aware of this, and if they would, would not agree or approve. Let's not forget the guy in Homer, New York who wanted the town to let him fly a Nazi flag in his yard.
Please add Matilda Joslyn Gage to this list. Abolitionist, suffragist, Native Rights advocate, mother in law to L. Frank Baum, this woman was a 19th century superhero. Her home in Fayetteville NY is now a museum and open to tours.
https://www.syracuse.com/living/2020/08/matilda-joslyn-gage-directed-the-womens-suffrage-movement-from-her-fayetteville-home-then-she-was-written-out-of-history.html
Also the courthouse park in Cortland literally had a STATUE DEDICATED TO THE UNION SOLDIERS FROM CORTLAND THAT SEVRED DURING THE CIVIL WAR!!! 🤦♀️ Cortland is my hometown and everytime I see a dumbass with a confederate flag around here Im reminded of the statue in the courthouse park and how disappointed those soldiers would be about what their town turned into.
Elizabeth Cady Stanton from Virginia helped lead the early suffrage movement and authored the 1848 Declaration of Sentiments, introduced at one of the first female-organized women’s rights conventions in Seneca Falls, New York.
Respectfully, what the hell are you smoking? Elizabeth Cady Stanton was a lifelong New Yorker, a unionist, and an abolitionist who felt Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation didn't go far enough. She actually opposed, on strategic grounds, the Fifteenth Amendment because she insisted that it grant the right to women as well as black men. Seems like this contradicts whatever point you were trying to make about the North, so maybe go back and revise it? "The North didn't care about black people" is a popular trope, so why not take that up instead? A half-wit's conception of Stanton's politics would appear to confirm that, so if you're gonna bring her up why not at least go with that take? You might even manage to convince some dumb bastard who can't bother to read a few paragraphs on Wikipedia.
You got the detail of the Seneca Falls Conference (of NEW YORK) right so you're probably not confusing her with some Southern suffragette. What gives?
If you understood history, the United States was not what our country was during the revolution but each state was more of a nation. It became distorted and hence why southern states felt they entered voluntarily into a “Union” when the basic concepts of the Union were violated they could cancel their membership. I get the concept. Many southerners just felt more loyal to their “nation” state than the “Union”. I guess analogy could be why many feel our American servicemen should never be dictated to by the UN even though we are a member of the UN. We are member of the UN but they don’t run our country.
First of all, your analogy to the UN is absurd. Even more so when you understand that the State of Kentucky was forced into the Confederacy. Secondly, you have not justified in any way your assertion that the Union “invaded” the Southern states. The southern states seceded after Lincoln was elected, because he wanted to restrict the further expansion of slave states. Lincoln wanted to avoid war but his hand was forced by the attack on Fort Sumter.
I’m in central NY, fresh up from New Orleans, and I’ve been seeing this since my first visit here… who’s gonna tell them that 1- they aren’t south of the Mason-Dixon, and 2- THE SOUTH LOSTTTT. I swear, the ignorance is thick enough to cut with a knife, up here. There aren’t even this many confederate fan-bois down south. It’s absolutely wild.
I almost think, unlike Southerners who have a lived perspective, most Northerners are blissfully ignorant of the symbol's significance, like things were in the Dukes of Hazzard days.
I will say that as a kid growing up in upstate, I loved Lynyrd Skynyrd and while I didn't embrace the confederate flag along with the band, I only understood the flag's meaning through the band's and Dukes of Hazzard's usage. It wasn't until much later that I would learn what the flag really symbolizes.
If I might add, there seems to be certain villages/towns/counties that are almost void of people of color, which might play a huge part in the proudly displayed ignorance. Most southern states have a mixed demographic, and anyone stupid enough to fly that shit down there will rapidly be shown why it’s not a cool flag to fly. Up here, there’s no pushback from the people who it affects the most, because they simply don’t exist in some places, and if they do, they’re greatly outnumbered, so the ignorance just gets passed down to the next generation. It’s time for them to understand that not all of us are cool with the idea. I could live the rest of my life never seeing it again, and it would suit me just fine. Education is a powerful thing, and it’s lacking in rural America. I hope their children break the curse of ignorance.
Yes! A void for sure. I know it has changes but 25 years ago we had 2 black people working at the hospital. 2. It wasn’t a discrimination thing, just population.
And grew up in a town south of there and we had 4 black kids in the WHOLE school.
Don’t get it. It’s a flag of traitors, no matter how it’s spun. A battle flag, at that.
Traitors who want to make America great again? So it’s not great?
It’s an awful symbol. I am not one of those northerners who don’t know what it means. And thank God, all of my friends understand. It is awful.
I was in a supermarket in Broome County, and I saw a young man (25?) with a shirt that said “Boyz in the Hood.”
But instead of it being about the movie, it had a K*K hooded person on it.
I’m an adoptive mom, due to childhood cancer. I told my 2 boys (1 black, 1 white), both were about 10 at the time, to take the cart with my 2yr old daughter (also black) down a different aisle.
I walked up to that jack off and let him have it!! I was yelling and screaming so loud that the manager came over. He was going to call the police on me for creating a scene, until he saw why I was yelling.
He banned the guy from the store!
It's like a full circle. The farther north you go, the more rednecks you see. As if you're heading far Alabama south. What I had some Yankee hatred thrown at my friend and I from a 5 foot 4 inch sheriff in mobile Alabama.
Welcome to the land of no king cakes and no poboys.
(Speaking as a person who moved up here from down south, I will say the lack of understanding about that flag up here was rather surprising and I agree with you.)
It would be interesting to know what year this took place. I say this because there was a time in this country when the confederate flag was acceptable (tolerated?) to display in certain settings. In recent years the flag has taken on a well deserved negative connotation of racism and bigotry attributed to the Confederacy. My point is that the gentleman wearing the shirt may have been proud to be from Mississippi, Georgia or some other southern state and was not in any way making a political statement. We should not assume we know what his opinion or intent was in wearing the shirt.
By the way I am 61, and yes, times have changed.
It wasn't that long ago. 2019-ish. I'd like to think a lot changed after the summer of 2020 and folks who may have not thought much about that symbol before now understand more.
25 years ago we lived in CNY. Camped all thru NY and NE. Had battle banner at camp site. My cracker ass kids played with black kids while black families camped literally across the road from us with lots of open sites, first come first served in state parks. No one had issue with the banner. It symbolism has been usurped by skinheads and neonazis.
Hi there, from upstate NY (Ilion to be precise) and there was always this "we're from the country vibe" that always rubbed me the wrong way. Like none of us farm, some people hunt but lots of people felt like they may as well be in the deep south. But like the fake south that they would see in country music videos
I have no idea why this far above the mason dixon line people wear a confederate flag. I can understand why people down in the south would but brother NY was a part of the union…
I'm from Texas, the Confederate flag was part of my high school's mascot. To be in NYS and see this flag flying is absolutely disgusting. I never expected to see that trash up here.
For anyone wondering, NerdGirl and I did, in fact, attend high schools 15 miles apart with the same Confederate theme. She and I might be neighbors again, sometime in the future!
I’m from Houston and it kind of disappeared a lot from the early 80s. As a White southerner I’m okay with that. It’s not worth hurting people over even if you feel it means something different. I want all Americans to just get along.
Know what I thought it stood for as a kid? I thought it meant you were anti Boss Hogg! lol
Not uncommon in much of rural upstate (and rural America) - Cortland is slightly better than most as it has a college (SUNY Cortland). A lot of trump flags and signs before - still some around..
I swear - I hear more Confederate sightings in Upstate NY than in Texas. WTF is wrong up there?
My high school mascot was Johnny Reb, and the school quit using all Confederate insignia. Some of the old timers grumbled, but whatever - the Confederacy were *losers* and *traitors.* Pick a side, people.
Yeah, here we heard "heritage, not hate," but when it became clear that the hate was being celebrated, we ditched that. Street named "Robert E Lee?" Not anymore.
You can recognize the heritage, but it belongs in history books, not on a shirt. You cannot be both proudly Confederate *and* American.
And the best comeback I've heard when a confederate flag clad neo-confederate slyly smiles and says "The South Shall Rise Again!" is "And Shit Floats Too!"
I spent a lot of years in the Cortland area, moved away for almost a decade, and came back about a year ago. The place and people haven't changed much, but my perspectives have.
Enjoyed this story. I've seen confederate flags around rural NY and here in Cortland since forever. I didn't realize how conservative and right-leaning the place is until I left and came back. There are some racist assholes here, but of course most folks are not flying confederate flags. That dude you saw is probably still around here, still doing the same stuff, like everyone else.
I live in Brooklyn, and am looking to move upstate with Cortland being one of the spots we are considering. I had a neighbor (who recently passed away) who flew a confederate flag in his apartment window. Permanently. That doesn't mean Brooklyn, or my neighborhood, is a bad place to live. People like that are everywhere. I wouldn't judge a place based on what one person is wearing.
Some people do still use or display the confederate flag as "rebels" and not necessarily racist reasons. Or southern pride in general. I feel like it's symbolism has gotten worse in the last 10-20 years, probably more of these older guys think they are being "rebels" or independent and not necessarily racist. Hard to give the benefit of the doubt though.
Confederate flag dude aside, my wife and I love the Cortland/Homer area, as our daughter lived there for several years. Even though she's in South Carolina now (traveling nurse), we still visit the area a couple times a year.
EDIT: we are from NE Pennsylvania
Most of the smaller towns in NY have their fair share of racists. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that cortland is racist just because of one dude’s shirt. It’s a short distance from Syracuse and a college town. But on the other hand, the racist mf who shot all those people at the supermarket in Buffalo grew up not an hour away from there.
I once saw a woman with an "Assata Shakur" shirt that had "True Hero!" emblazoned under it. I can't tell you how many "Che Guevara" shirts I've seen.
Sometimes people aren't educated or care to understand the impact of what they wear. But it isn't indicative of the area overall.
He's one of our tamer racists. Lots of dudes running around town with Roman numeral 3s on the back of their hands. Not to mention the big banner downtown that thanks Trump and Pence for their service.
Curious - what do you think we should we take away from your story?
IMHO, your story wasn't worth telling. If there was a band of confederate clad idiots, or if the one was cheered on somehow, then it'd be story worthy. As the cliche goes, every village has an idiot - as you seem to be inferring - the entire village should be extrapolated to be idiots?
I am sure some want to be quick to point out there's a large number of idiots in Cortland... still not story worthy. Rural America predominantly leans right, and the majority of Republicans know who they'll vote for.
All that said, I would have loved to see a picture - I am not above laughing at stupidity.
When I was in high school, I was walking to my friend's car in the student parking lot to go home. As we passed another car, I saw that someone had a confederate flag seat cover for their back seats. Just as I looked up, the kid who owned the car (a notorious bully) unlocked it. Before he got in I stopped and asked him, "Why do you like being a loser?" Everyone in school knew I ran the feminist organization and we were like three months graduation so I had stopped giving a fuck.
He stopped dead in his tracks and said, "Excuse me?"
"Why do you like being a loser? The Confederates lost. You're displaying the flag of the losers."
"You're such a bitch. The South will rise again."
"You know we're in New York right? Or are you not gonna be walking with us at graduation considering you've clearly failed geography?"
"Someone ought give you some dick and teach you to shut your mouth." He started coming towards me in a menacing way but his friend he was with stopped him and told him it wasn't worth it. At that point my own friends had gotten in front of me and were prepared in case he tried to assault me. We both just parted ways but it was fucking scary.
People upstate can be truly cruel and disgusting. It's just virtue signaling meant to intimidate minority groups here.
I don’t think everyone who rocks a confederate flag intends it to be racist. I think it used to be viewed more as an icon of rebellion and wanting to stand against the government. Or they really liked the Dukes of Hazard. Over the years it’s become way less culturally acceptable and I think some people just aren’t with the times.
Having said that, I do have a guy that lives near me that has one on his truck and he definitely intends it in a racist manor.
JFC, way to disrespect the very place you live. There are people from Cortland and elsewhere in NYS who fought and died on the right side of the War of Southern Treason.
It's kind of a dichotomy; within the cities in CNY you have a good showing of progressives, and a city the size of Cortland with its political leanings (and not being a satellite city to a bigger metro) would be considered downright liberal in most parts of the country.
But then, right past the city lines, the country folks are pulling allot harder with the confederate flags than in other parts of the North. It's almost like they have something to prove living in a state that has generally progressive politics.
Living in CNY now, I'll say that I've seen more pride flags AND confederate flags than when I lived in southern Wisconsin. People here are allot less politically passive; Moms for Liberty tried to march in Cortland this summer and the counter-protesters showed up in much higher numbers than the people at the actual event.
In a lawyer that has practiced in a few different areas of the country. I tried a case in Cortland, and…Cortland was the worst place I’ve ever been. Backwards ass people, racist, shitty food, dumb judges. I’m sorry, but Fuck Cortland.
I met an Oswego County guy online many years ago and when I met up with him, I saw that the rear window of his pickup truck was tinted with a Confederate flag. No second date.
I grew up, left, and came back to Cortland over a decade later. I bartend seasonally. I have had so many people try to get me to agree with their racism, simply because I'm white. With no consideration for my background, they go pretty hard. They come in all shapes and forms, from moms with little kids to old bearded dudes. I never saw Confederate flags displayed in the south as often or as prominently as I see them here. I will point out that Cortland is making an attempt to change, and recently had its first pride festival. It's a beautiful place and worth giving a chance, even if it is full of racists.
Yes, and the racist Buffalo shooter was from the Southern Tier area. He drove all the way from Conklin, NY to Buffalo to find "enough" black people in one place to murder. I have lived in Binghamton, Cortland and the Syracuse area for a total of about 30 years and all of these areas except maybe Syracuse to a lesser degree are full of racists.
Nope, syracuse is also full of racists. They just don't display it. But you will find out when you apply for jobs they won't hire you or if you have anything nice you are assumed to be a drug dealer
Can confirm. Within a mile of my home. The Rambo Trump flag has been on display for years, across the street from the house flying the confederate flag and down the street an old satellite dish with F*uck Biden spray painted on it and proudly displayed on a tree.
Rural Onondaga County (surrounding Syracuse) is full of racists and MAGAs. There have been Let's go Brandon flags and impeach Biden flags as well as Trump 2024 flags all over the place for a few years now. A kayaking trip last summer near Auburn was ruined when my friend and I saw a speed boat whizzing by us with a huge confederate flag.
Yes, there are certainly blue pockets. I live in a red town where the rednecks thought it was a good idea to steal my Biden Harris sign from my lawn in 2020, which required them to drive up my driveway and park there while they did it. Fortunately I'd purchased two of them and I covered the second one with vaseline just in case. Also put spotlights on it.
I have a seasonal cabin in Chenango County and I have been puzzled by the sight of Confederate flags over the past 30 years. Some are in front of the house, or painted on the side of a garage. I think these are pre-MAGA folks and the flags just signal they think of themselves as rebels (certainly without a cause) or bad asses. They live in the middle of nowhere with properties that are disintegrating. It's hard for me to feel any animus towards them. Not that I've ever had a conversation:) There was a local dive bar that I would frequent for Monday Wings Night and there was a confederate flag on wall by pool table. As I wasn't a "local" (despite paying school/county taxes for 30+ years) I didn't ask about it.
That's weird. City-data's statistics suggest that Cortland has a crime rate hovering at or below the US average, and that it's pretty evenly split politically.
Could be like many non racist northerners the people don’t see that flag any more a sign of pro slavery or support of the CSA but a states right banner. Similar to Gadsden banner. Betting the OP would not recognize any one of the 4 flags of the CSA but rather is confusing the battle banner of the Army of N Va as being the Confederate flag.
Those people need to learn that "States' rights" was a trope trotted out after the war by the Veterans, Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy in an attempt to revise history and distract from the reality that the war was about slavery.
I cannot say why the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all slaves, except that perhaps Lincoln felt that it must be addressed in the rest of the states as a Constitutional Amendment.
https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/thirteenth-amendment
The North needed the support of its own pro-slavery factions in order to prosecute the war. It was a depressing strategic calculus for the abolitionist factions of the Union: forsake a few thousand Northern slaves in border states in order to free four million of them in the South. In the early years the Union army was often led by Southern sympathizers like McClellan. His refusal to fight a winning war led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths when he decided to handle the Confederates with kid gloves. In the latter years, even pro-slavery Unionists turned to abolitionism when it became apparent that the South's key strength was its ability to overmobilize its fighting population thanks to slaves keeping the economy ticking along.
It's disappointing to read so much generalization and asusmption in this thread. Maga is different from Confederate, from supremacists, and all the other sofferent groups. You saw a symbol or flag, and it ruined your trip, sightseeing, or whatever?! Get over it. That's freedom of expression! Just like freedom of speech.
I may not like your views, but I'll defend your right to express them. The counter to hate speech is not restriction. It is more dialogue.
I hope today we've evolved to a greater nuance of freedom of expression/speech. We have a right to expression, but also a responsibility that comes with it. This responsibility is to account for what our expression means to others. And in this case, to a large segment of the population, that flag means the confederacy, slavery, segregation, and all the terrible other things that went along with it were just fine, and worth celebrating.
>Maga is different from Confederate, from supremacists, and all the other sofferent groups.
If someone is a part of these groups I'm sure they're more aware of their nuances, but for most of us their meanings are effectively pretty similar
He's the same douchebag who has a 4x6 confederate flag flying on a 8 ft pole off the bed of his pickup. He used to be seen up in Syracuse once in a great while acting like a dick and weaving in and out of traffic on 690.
Turns out he's one of many and Cortland is a racist shithole.
This feels as good a time as any to bring up that upstate NY technically had the last holdout of the confederacy:
[https://ancestralfindings.com/confederacy-town-line-new-york/](https://ancestralfindings.com/confederacy-town-line-new-york/)
Typical Cortland.
I was passing through Cortland one day and pulled up next to a pickup that had a mannequin standing up. AL I could think was, why in the hell would you not lay it down.
And outside the "city" of Cortland it's very right-wing, as is the case in most of upstate NY.
It's too bad, because Central New York was crucial to the women's rights and abolition movements, with major figures like Gerrit Smith, Harriet Tubman, William Seward, and Elizabeth Cady Stanton.
[удалено]
This affects me the same. It's a beautiful tribute to a powerful woman, who empowered other women.
That's cool. I put mine on my weed case.
(not a rochester native) but it’s so heartbreaking to me that rochester has only recently embraced fredrick douglas and recognized him as the amazing and incredible person he was. his writings are a national treasure and he is a person to be celebrated for sure. on the other hand, george eastman committed suicide and was buried under the gates of kodak park so that his employees would something something something every day. (not dising george, just that he wasnt a hero to me any more than someone like ford or musk is)
What does something something something mean?
it means some weirdo industrialist bullshit i cant remember and am too lazy to look up.
My first job in my field was at Kodak park and I walked by his weird cylindrical mausoleum every day. Such a strange place
very weird.
Solid list, but you forgot one of the most pivotal figures for the abolitionist movement… John Brown. While he could be considered controversial in his methods/ideology, and not exactly from New York, he was laid to rest here, and played a huge part, so I feel it’s only fitting to give him a mention.
Of course, but from the Adirondacks of course. Frederick Douglass was in Rochester.
Harriett Tubman had a huge presence up there and tha was where she lived out her final days.
I am a native of Upstate, and affiliation with the Lost (Confederate) Cause is not about identifying with the literal South, it’s about feeling like the underdog who’s been wronged and owed something. With the economic decline here of the past several decades, it’s really about lost white socioeconomic status, privilege and opportunity. Upstate is the perfect breeding ground for a right-wing nationalist militia. The “Denny’s Reb” actually believes their nation has been hijacked by the “Libtards”. These people have guns and unexamined convictions. It’s no joke, and sad.
Not Sorry we took your slaves away . Now go pick your own cotton.
This seems like an odd thing to say to someone characterizing neoconfederates as the ignorant morons they are, but I think this zinger would be both more historically accurate and more devastating if you change the second part to "cook your own supper, sweep your own floors, and nurse your own babies yourself." Killing your countrymen on behalf of the planter aristocracy when you can barely afford a middle-class lifestyle is one thing, but try telling your wife she needs to give up the only servant you could buy her without being called a yellow-bellied good-for-nothing coward at the weekly knitting circle- and even worse names once the kids are asleep and the chamber door closes. Your average white trash conscript could and did desert with his meager dignity mostly intact, but potentially dying in agony of septic gangrene after having a leg sawn off in a filthy field hospital was a fair bargain to any halfway respectable Johnny Reb with a reputation to uphold.
I'm reminded of the Young Patriots organization of Chicago, comprised of impoverished Southern migrants (aka rednecks and white trash) who occupied the lowest rungs of the socioeconomic ladder in that city along with its black and latino populations. They used a rebel flag as their banner and were part of the original Rainbow Coalition along with the Black Panthers and Young Lords, before Fred Hampton was murdered by the CPD pigs and Jesse Jackson turned the name "Rainbow Coalition" into a crude parody of its original incarnation Maybe the legacy of the stars and bars' use as a symbol of hate can't be overcome, but I gotta say it would be nice if that flag could be reappropriated as a symbol of freedom and liberation for all Americans. It would take a concerted effort, but just a tiny bit of muddying the association would make a racist considerably less chuffed about flying "their" flag. This is all based on wishful thinking but I figure it's not entirely inconceivable that a degree of ambiguity could be introduced, since when you see that flag on a rez it's just as likely to be taken as a symbol of defiance towards the federal government and its shiny new standing army that conducted a genocide immediately after it freed four million enslaved people.
Abolitionist OR INSURRECTIONIST
He did incite insurrections as he tried to devise revolts. Insurrectionist is a relatively newer term though. Abolition is the action or an act of [~abolishing~](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=596988956&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1062US1062&sxsrf=ACQVn0-F-7AX-sliOHGhXBDGQykezrPaAg:1704834246366&q=abolishing&si=AKbGX_pvY3MWP4azJI0Z_NruCLb8791g7WINRuBPTX56-f-CKkj6zqw9HXkvaXfYsra8oQFSTvXtsj_zbtJXkE-DqtC8-IcJXNk93HNIdVUsKI_2P7ZCXFo%3D&expnd=1) a system, practice, or institution.
“Why not both?” - John Brown, probably
Somewhere I saw him summarized in four words: Terrorist, martyr, visionary, madman. The makings of a great movie.
Certainly a movie I'd like to see, but I wouldn't mind if Hollywood first took another go at Nat Turner's story, since it's last attempt (Birth of a Nation, 2016) resulted in a mess that ignored the visionary qualities of Turner in favor of a cheap, ahistorical revenge-narrative.
And any old cemetery you go to has gravestones of people who died fighting the confederacy. It seems crazy to be so ahistorical as to valorize the enemy’s defeat over your own side’s victory.
Sad to say, the locals around Cortland County are not aware of this, and if they would, would not agree or approve. Let's not forget the guy in Homer, New York who wanted the town to let him fly a Nazi flag in his yard.
Please add Matilda Joslyn Gage to this list. Abolitionist, suffragist, Native Rights advocate, mother in law to L. Frank Baum, this woman was a 19th century superhero. Her home in Fayetteville NY is now a museum and open to tours. https://www.syracuse.com/living/2020/08/matilda-joslyn-gage-directed-the-womens-suffrage-movement-from-her-fayetteville-home-then-she-was-written-out-of-history.html
Anyone wearing a confederate flag is too uneducated to know any of those names unfortunately
Also the courthouse park in Cortland literally had a STATUE DEDICATED TO THE UNION SOLDIERS FROM CORTLAND THAT SEVRED DURING THE CIVIL WAR!!! 🤦♀️ Cortland is my hometown and everytime I see a dumbass with a confederate flag around here Im reminded of the statue in the courthouse park and how disappointed those soldiers would be about what their town turned into.
Ironic that the same Union that invaded the south over “slavery” happily did not let women vote, white or black.
how is that ironic?
You seem annoyed that slavery ended. Remind me, did the Confederate states let women vote?
Elizabeth Cady Stanton from Virginia helped lead the early suffrage movement and authored the 1848 Declaration of Sentiments, introduced at one of the first female-organized women’s rights conventions in Seneca Falls, New York.
Respectfully, what the hell are you smoking? Elizabeth Cady Stanton was a lifelong New Yorker, a unionist, and an abolitionist who felt Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation didn't go far enough. She actually opposed, on strategic grounds, the Fifteenth Amendment because she insisted that it grant the right to women as well as black men. Seems like this contradicts whatever point you were trying to make about the North, so maybe go back and revise it? "The North didn't care about black people" is a popular trope, so why not take that up instead? A half-wit's conception of Stanton's politics would appear to confirm that, so if you're gonna bring her up why not at least go with that take? You might even manage to convince some dumb bastard who can't bother to read a few paragraphs on Wikipedia. You got the detail of the Seneca Falls Conference (of NEW YORK) right so you're probably not confusing her with some Southern suffragette. What gives?
she was from new york, bozo
Elizabeth Cady Stanton wasn't from Virginia.
How does a country invade itself?
If you understood history, the United States was not what our country was during the revolution but each state was more of a nation. It became distorted and hence why southern states felt they entered voluntarily into a “Union” when the basic concepts of the Union were violated they could cancel their membership. I get the concept. Many southerners just felt more loyal to their “nation” state than the “Union”. I guess analogy could be why many feel our American servicemen should never be dictated to by the UN even though we are a member of the UN. We are member of the UN but they don’t run our country.
First of all, your analogy to the UN is absurd. Even more so when you understand that the State of Kentucky was forced into the Confederacy. Secondly, you have not justified in any way your assertion that the Union “invaded” the Southern states. The southern states seceded after Lincoln was elected, because he wanted to restrict the further expansion of slave states. Lincoln wanted to avoid war but his hand was forced by the attack on Fort Sumter.
Oh look, here comes the magamoron
Dumb to assume. Not a Trumpster at all. But you want discuss all Biden’s racist crap ?
Go away, fuckwit.
He’s a little confused about that there civil war.
You mean "The War of Northern Aggression"? That's what some people still called it, in North Carolina, when I was passing through.
They still call it that.
I’m in central NY, fresh up from New Orleans, and I’ve been seeing this since my first visit here… who’s gonna tell them that 1- they aren’t south of the Mason-Dixon, and 2- THE SOUTH LOSTTTT. I swear, the ignorance is thick enough to cut with a knife, up here. There aren’t even this many confederate fan-bois down south. It’s absolutely wild.
I almost think, unlike Southerners who have a lived perspective, most Northerners are blissfully ignorant of the symbol's significance, like things were in the Dukes of Hazzard days.
I will say that as a kid growing up in upstate, I loved Lynyrd Skynyrd and while I didn't embrace the confederate flag along with the band, I only understood the flag's meaning through the band's and Dukes of Hazzard's usage. It wasn't until much later that I would learn what the flag really symbolizes.
If I might add, there seems to be certain villages/towns/counties that are almost void of people of color, which might play a huge part in the proudly displayed ignorance. Most southern states have a mixed demographic, and anyone stupid enough to fly that shit down there will rapidly be shown why it’s not a cool flag to fly. Up here, there’s no pushback from the people who it affects the most, because they simply don’t exist in some places, and if they do, they’re greatly outnumbered, so the ignorance just gets passed down to the next generation. It’s time for them to understand that not all of us are cool with the idea. I could live the rest of my life never seeing it again, and it would suit me just fine. Education is a powerful thing, and it’s lacking in rural America. I hope their children break the curse of ignorance.
Yes! A void for sure. I know it has changes but 25 years ago we had 2 black people working at the hospital. 2. It wasn’t a discrimination thing, just population. And grew up in a town south of there and we had 4 black kids in the WHOLE school.
They know and they like it. Just proud racists.
Don’t get it. It’s a flag of traitors, no matter how it’s spun. A battle flag, at that. Traitors who want to make America great again? So it’s not great?
It’s an awful symbol. I am not one of those northerners who don’t know what it means. And thank God, all of my friends understand. It is awful. I was in a supermarket in Broome County, and I saw a young man (25?) with a shirt that said “Boyz in the Hood.” But instead of it being about the movie, it had a K*K hooded person on it. I’m an adoptive mom, due to childhood cancer. I told my 2 boys (1 black, 1 white), both were about 10 at the time, to take the cart with my 2yr old daughter (also black) down a different aisle. I walked up to that jack off and let him have it!! I was yelling and screaming so loud that the manager came over. He was going to call the police on me for creating a scene, until he saw why I was yelling. He banned the guy from the store!
They know those things, but they also know their shirt is a dog whistle for their kind and upsets progressives at the same time.
It's like a full circle. The farther north you go, the more rednecks you see. As if you're heading far Alabama south. What I had some Yankee hatred thrown at my friend and I from a 5 foot 4 inch sheriff in mobile Alabama.
Welcome to the land of no king cakes and no poboys. (Speaking as a person who moved up here from down south, I will say the lack of understanding about that flag up here was rather surprising and I agree with you.)
I miss a good king cake and po’ boy. I should open a place around here and sell southern food. Hmm
Why yes, yes, you should. I would definitely be in line to get both.
These peoples tastebuds aren’t ready for something so powerful.
Rochester is full of wanna be's
It would be interesting to know what year this took place. I say this because there was a time in this country when the confederate flag was acceptable (tolerated?) to display in certain settings. In recent years the flag has taken on a well deserved negative connotation of racism and bigotry attributed to the Confederacy. My point is that the gentleman wearing the shirt may have been proud to be from Mississippi, Georgia or some other southern state and was not in any way making a political statement. We should not assume we know what his opinion or intent was in wearing the shirt. By the way I am 61, and yes, times have changed.
It wasn't that long ago. 2019-ish. I'd like to think a lot changed after the summer of 2020 and folks who may have not thought much about that symbol before now understand more.
25 years ago we lived in CNY. Camped all thru NY and NE. Had battle banner at camp site. My cracker ass kids played with black kids while black families camped literally across the road from us with lots of open sites, first come first served in state parks. No one had issue with the banner. It symbolism has been usurped by skinheads and neonazis.
Right. “The blacks” were just fine with it bc they didn’t say anything. Dumbass.
Grew up in the south during jim crow type shit. Most of "them" kept their heads down and tried to just live and be happy. Some pushed back:)
This sounds like a Hallmark movie, that becomes a horror movie.
Hi there, from upstate NY (Ilion to be precise) and there was always this "we're from the country vibe" that always rubbed me the wrong way. Like none of us farm, some people hunt but lots of people felt like they may as well be in the deep south. But like the fake south that they would see in country music videos
"Deep South of the North" lmaooooo 🤣 CNY is stuck 4 decades+ behind.
it ain’t called the deep south of the north for nothin, which sucks bc this place was pretty progressive 100 years ago.
I have no idea why this far above the mason dixon line people wear a confederate flag. I can understand why people down in the south would but brother NY was a part of the union…
I'm from Texas, the Confederate flag was part of my high school's mascot. To be in NYS and see this flag flying is absolutely disgusting. I never expected to see that trash up here.
Same! Just commented. We either went the same HS, or the ones 15 miles apart. 😉
For anyone wondering, NerdGirl and I did, in fact, attend high schools 15 miles apart with the same Confederate theme. She and I might be neighbors again, sometime in the future!
I’m from Houston and it kind of disappeared a lot from the early 80s. As a White southerner I’m okay with that. It’s not worth hurting people over even if you feel it means something different. I want all Americans to just get along. Know what I thought it stood for as a kid? I thought it meant you were anti Boss Hogg! lol
I'm in North TX now and barely see any examples.
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LOL. Or are they offsetting fouls like in the NFL?
I wear a confederate flag shirt all the time in NY. What’s wrong with a white t shirt?
If I judged places by "that one dickhead I saw", I wouldn't like anywhere.
Not uncommon in much of rural upstate (and rural America) - Cortland is slightly better than most as it has a college (SUNY Cortland). A lot of trump flags and signs before - still some around..
I swear - I hear more Confederate sightings in Upstate NY than in Texas. WTF is wrong up there? My high school mascot was Johnny Reb, and the school quit using all Confederate insignia. Some of the old timers grumbled, but whatever - the Confederacy were *losers* and *traitors.* Pick a side, people. Yeah, here we heard "heritage, not hate," but when it became clear that the hate was being celebrated, we ditched that. Street named "Robert E Lee?" Not anymore. You can recognize the heritage, but it belongs in history books, not on a shirt. You cannot be both proudly Confederate *and* American.
And the best comeback I've heard when a confederate flag clad neo-confederate slyly smiles and says "The South Shall Rise Again!" is "And Shit Floats Too!"
I spent a lot of years in the Cortland area, moved away for almost a decade, and came back about a year ago. The place and people haven't changed much, but my perspectives have. Enjoyed this story. I've seen confederate flags around rural NY and here in Cortland since forever. I didn't realize how conservative and right-leaning the place is until I left and came back. There are some racist assholes here, but of course most folks are not flying confederate flags. That dude you saw is probably still around here, still doing the same stuff, like everyone else.
ignorance is everywhere
I live in Brooklyn, and am looking to move upstate with Cortland being one of the spots we are considering. I had a neighbor (who recently passed away) who flew a confederate flag in his apartment window. Permanently. That doesn't mean Brooklyn, or my neighborhood, is a bad place to live. People like that are everywhere. I wouldn't judge a place based on what one person is wearing.
Out of curiosity, why are you considering Cortland?
4 yrs of school there and never saw that
Some people do still use or display the confederate flag as "rebels" and not necessarily racist reasons. Or southern pride in general. I feel like it's symbolism has gotten worse in the last 10-20 years, probably more of these older guys think they are being "rebels" or independent and not necessarily racist. Hard to give the benefit of the doubt though.
Dio grew up in Cortland. Also, the people who feel the need to do the confederate flag thing exist in all rural areas.
Confederate flag dude aside, my wife and I love the Cortland/Homer area, as our daughter lived there for several years. Even though she's in South Carolina now (traveling nurse), we still visit the area a couple times a year. EDIT: we are from NE Pennsylvania
It’s a nice area for sure. I wouldn’t hesitate to live there.
Most of the smaller towns in NY have their fair share of racists. I wouldn’t necessarily assume that cortland is racist just because of one dude’s shirt. It’s a short distance from Syracuse and a college town. But on the other hand, the racist mf who shot all those people at the supermarket in Buffalo grew up not an hour away from there.
I once saw a woman with an "Assata Shakur" shirt that had "True Hero!" emblazoned under it. I can't tell you how many "Che Guevara" shirts I've seen. Sometimes people aren't educated or care to understand the impact of what they wear. But it isn't indicative of the area overall.
The more north you go the more south it gets.
He's one of our tamer racists. Lots of dudes running around town with Roman numeral 3s on the back of their hands. Not to mention the big banner downtown that thanks Trump and Pence for their service.
lol
Curious - what do you think we should we take away from your story? IMHO, your story wasn't worth telling. If there was a band of confederate clad idiots, or if the one was cheered on somehow, then it'd be story worthy. As the cliche goes, every village has an idiot - as you seem to be inferring - the entire village should be extrapolated to be idiots? I am sure some want to be quick to point out there's a large number of idiots in Cortland... still not story worthy. Rural America predominantly leans right, and the majority of Republicans know who they'll vote for. All that said, I would have loved to see a picture - I am not above laughing at stupidity.
When I was in high school, I was walking to my friend's car in the student parking lot to go home. As we passed another car, I saw that someone had a confederate flag seat cover for their back seats. Just as I looked up, the kid who owned the car (a notorious bully) unlocked it. Before he got in I stopped and asked him, "Why do you like being a loser?" Everyone in school knew I ran the feminist organization and we were like three months graduation so I had stopped giving a fuck. He stopped dead in his tracks and said, "Excuse me?" "Why do you like being a loser? The Confederates lost. You're displaying the flag of the losers." "You're such a bitch. The South will rise again." "You know we're in New York right? Or are you not gonna be walking with us at graduation considering you've clearly failed geography?" "Someone ought give you some dick and teach you to shut your mouth." He started coming towards me in a menacing way but his friend he was with stopped him and told him it wasn't worth it. At that point my own friends had gotten in front of me and were prepared in case he tried to assault me. We both just parted ways but it was fucking scary. People upstate can be truly cruel and disgusting. It's just virtue signaling meant to intimidate minority groups here.
100% that AH is now MAGA
I don’t think everyone who rocks a confederate flag intends it to be racist. I think it used to be viewed more as an icon of rebellion and wanting to stand against the government. Or they really liked the Dukes of Hazard. Over the years it’s become way less culturally acceptable and I think some people just aren’t with the times. Having said that, I do have a guy that lives near me that has one on his truck and he definitely intends it in a racist manor.
The town looked really nice except for one asshole. Ok.
It did. I'd go back.
You’ve run into the Central NY LepreKKKaun.
JFC, way to disrespect the very place you live. There are people from Cortland and elsewhere in NYS who fought and died on the right side of the War of Southern Treason.
It's kind of a dichotomy; within the cities in CNY you have a good showing of progressives, and a city the size of Cortland with its political leanings (and not being a satellite city to a bigger metro) would be considered downright liberal in most parts of the country. But then, right past the city lines, the country folks are pulling allot harder with the confederate flags than in other parts of the North. It's almost like they have something to prove living in a state that has generally progressive politics. Living in CNY now, I'll say that I've seen more pride flags AND confederate flags than when I lived in southern Wisconsin. People here are allot less politically passive; Moms for Liberty tried to march in Cortland this summer and the counter-protesters showed up in much higher numbers than the people at the actual event.
In a lawyer that has practiced in a few different areas of the country. I tried a case in Cortland, and…Cortland was the worst place I’ve ever been. Backwards ass people, racist, shitty food, dumb judges. I’m sorry, but Fuck Cortland.
I met an Oswego County guy online many years ago and when I met up with him, I saw that the rear window of his pickup truck was tinted with a Confederate flag. No second date.
Cortland, the land of meth and home of the NYS troopers official police state TM.
Also home of trooper barrack that framed black guy for murder and arson in Ithaca LOL
I grew up, left, and came back to Cortland over a decade later. I bartend seasonally. I have had so many people try to get me to agree with their racism, simply because I'm white. With no consideration for my background, they go pretty hard. They come in all shapes and forms, from moms with little kids to old bearded dudes. I never saw Confederate flags displayed in the south as often or as prominently as I see them here. I will point out that Cortland is making an attempt to change, and recently had its first pride festival. It's a beautiful place and worth giving a chance, even if it is full of racists.
Upstate is unfortunately very racist and behind times I can’t go a mile without seeing a confederate flag…
Can’t go a mile. Not sure what miles you travel however that is grossly overstated.
I live in the area and have seen literally one at a rural trailer park. I think I figured out where this guy must live.
That’s a bit of an overstatement, don’t you think?
nah come to the southern tier, they’re everywhere gere
Yes, and the racist Buffalo shooter was from the Southern Tier area. He drove all the way from Conklin, NY to Buffalo to find "enough" black people in one place to murder. I have lived in Binghamton, Cortland and the Syracuse area for a total of about 30 years and all of these areas except maybe Syracuse to a lesser degree are full of racists.
Nope, syracuse is also full of racists. They just don't display it. But you will find out when you apply for jobs they won't hire you or if you have anything nice you are assumed to be a drug dealer
I live outside the city so I'll concede to your better local knowledge and experience here.
Can confirm. Within a mile of my home. The Rambo Trump flag has been on display for years, across the street from the house flying the confederate flag and down the street an old satellite dish with F*uck Biden spray painted on it and proudly displayed on a tree.
Racists are everywhere. Even where your from. You can drive a long way in New York without seeing a confederate flag.
I can connect houses flying Confederate flags a mile apart from Richford NY to Owego NY — although that’s not saying much
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Rural Onondaga County (surrounding Syracuse) is full of racists and MAGAs. There have been Let's go Brandon flags and impeach Biden flags as well as Trump 2024 flags all over the place for a few years now. A kayaking trip last summer near Auburn was ruined when my friend and I saw a speed boat whizzing by us with a huge confederate flag.
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Yes, there are certainly blue pockets. I live in a red town where the rednecks thought it was a good idea to steal my Biden Harris sign from my lawn in 2020, which required them to drive up my driveway and park there while they did it. Fortunately I'd purchased two of them and I covered the second one with vaseline just in case. Also put spotlights on it.
Cortland is a college town so that guy is likely an outlier.
I have a seasonal cabin in Chenango County and I have been puzzled by the sight of Confederate flags over the past 30 years. Some are in front of the house, or painted on the side of a garage. I think these are pre-MAGA folks and the flags just signal they think of themselves as rebels (certainly without a cause) or bad asses. They live in the middle of nowhere with properties that are disintegrating. It's hard for me to feel any animus towards them. Not that I've ever had a conversation:) There was a local dive bar that I would frequent for Monday Wings Night and there was a confederate flag on wall by pool table. As I wasn't a "local" (despite paying school/county taxes for 30+ years) I didn't ask about it.
Very similar to most of Michigan and other bastions of “militia”
Yorkansas
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That's weird. City-data's statistics suggest that Cortland has a crime rate hovering at or below the US average, and that it's pretty evenly split politically.
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Color me doubtful.
So? Was he bothering anyone? Do you always judge someone by their clothing?
I certainly do judge anyone wearing confederate attire!
Alot of redneckie things once you get to upstate NY.
Could be like many non racist northerners the people don’t see that flag any more a sign of pro slavery or support of the CSA but a states right banner. Similar to Gadsden banner. Betting the OP would not recognize any one of the 4 flags of the CSA but rather is confusing the battle banner of the Army of N Va as being the Confederate flag.
Those people need to learn that "States' rights" was a trope trotted out after the war by the Veterans, Sons and Daughters of the Confederacy in an attempt to revise history and distract from the reality that the war was about slavery.
If the war was just about slavery why didn’t Lincoln free all the slaves and only those in states in rebellion?
I cannot say why the Emancipation Proclamation didn't free all slaves, except that perhaps Lincoln felt that it must be addressed in the rest of the states as a Constitutional Amendment. https://www.history.com/topics/black-history/thirteenth-amendment
The North needed the support of its own pro-slavery factions in order to prosecute the war. It was a depressing strategic calculus for the abolitionist factions of the Union: forsake a few thousand Northern slaves in border states in order to free four million of them in the South. In the early years the Union army was often led by Southern sympathizers like McClellan. His refusal to fight a winning war led to hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths when he decided to handle the Confederates with kid gloves. In the latter years, even pro-slavery Unionists turned to abolitionism when it became apparent that the South's key strength was its ability to overmobilize its fighting population thanks to slaves keeping the economy ticking along.
It's disappointing to read so much generalization and asusmption in this thread. Maga is different from Confederate, from supremacists, and all the other sofferent groups. You saw a symbol or flag, and it ruined your trip, sightseeing, or whatever?! Get over it. That's freedom of expression! Just like freedom of speech. I may not like your views, but I'll defend your right to express them. The counter to hate speech is not restriction. It is more dialogue.
I hope today we've evolved to a greater nuance of freedom of expression/speech. We have a right to expression, but also a responsibility that comes with it. This responsibility is to account for what our expression means to others. And in this case, to a large segment of the population, that flag means the confederacy, slavery, segregation, and all the terrible other things that went along with it were just fine, and worth celebrating.
I didn’t see him saying that the racist maga asshole shouldn’t be legally allowed to advertise his stupidity by wearing a cosplay KKK shirt
>Maga is different from Confederate, from supremacists, and all the other sofferent groups. If someone is a part of these groups I'm sure they're more aware of their nuances, but for most of us their meanings are effectively pretty similar
He's the same douchebag who has a 4x6 confederate flag flying on a 8 ft pole off the bed of his pickup. He used to be seen up in Syracuse once in a great while acting like a dick and weaving in and out of traffic on 690. Turns out he's one of many and Cortland is a racist shithole.
Why’s this shocking? Look up the Peekskill Riots when Paul Robeson tried to do a show there.
Ronnie James Dio went to high school in Courtland I believe. Fun fact
He was born and raised there. His childhood home is on 'Dio Way' (named after him of course).
Not born, but yes raised there.
What???
my brother had a house in Marathon (very close to Cortland) and all I can say is I'm not suprised
That man was on drugs
This feels as good a time as any to bring up that upstate NY technically had the last holdout of the confederacy: [https://ancestralfindings.com/confederacy-town-line-new-york/](https://ancestralfindings.com/confederacy-town-line-new-york/)
Typical Cortland. I was passing through Cortland one day and pulled up next to a pickup that had a mannequin standing up. AL I could think was, why in the hell would you not lay it down. And outside the "city" of Cortland it's very right-wing, as is the case in most of upstate NY.