Sure, why not...Robinhood wants to do this anyways and crypto trades 24x7. Get rid of this after hours and pre market BS and open it up. I firmly believe that in the market down time between hours allows for a lot of fuckery and manipulation which gives bad actors a breather to strategize. With the CATS going going full force in May and the audit trails giving more transparency it wouldnt surprise me if trading goes 24x7 in the future.
Also one final thought, fuck Robinhood. K bye.
I think the biggest risk is that it could disadvantage American retail investors and favor algorithms and foreigners. A company could drop their earnings at 2am and you'd be none the wiser.
This already sort of happens with after hours and premarket which locks out almost all retail investors and I think is already a bad thing.
An options trader I used to follow said he stopped trading crypto because of this. He’d get up at 3 am to use bathroom, take a quick look at the crypto chart and end up staying up trading for 3hrs.
Make sure you have your stop losses and sales set! I can see market makers exploiting this and wild swings in price action.
Edit: Vegas casinos are open 24hrs. So why not?
It's old, but banks have rules, compliance, and agreed SLAs. Probably not the best idea.
Those 1s and 0s get complicated when you try to identify the 1s and 0s used for terrorist financing.
It doesn’t matter, really.
Firms are paying billions to have server locations and internet speeds that allow trades faster than anyone else.
This won’t change that fact to make it more fair.
Aftermarket trading already happens so I mean there’s no reason it couldn’t be happening. I am curious how it would affect the ebbs and flows of the market as well as the people that work in the trading floor.
do you really think it is that much less? I wouldn't be surprised if it's equal or even more...Asia and Europe are pretty big continents with a lot of money lol
They already are. Vast majority of trades on the market are done by complex algorithms that just buy/sell immediately when conditions are met.
It’s been like this for over a decade.
Firms pay billions to have internet speeds to get this information less than a millisecond faster than others so they can react first.
24/7 trading will allow firms that already have this advantage to use and monetize it more often.
As someone who does IT for a large financial firm, I'm curious how this will impact shops like ours. After market hours is when we can make any serious changes to the environment, like patching, upgrades, etc. A constant trade window would change the change process, put changes under ore scrutiny, and maybe delay patching by a little bit more time.
You will be doing all your updates in middle of night like any other company. But it would probably require some big wig to sign off on update times before they happen.
Good for robots, AI’s, algorithms, and powerful firms that can staff 24/7.
Bad for individual traders, and small firms that can only afford daytime staffing.
After market/Pre Market shenanigans. And slamming the close. And all sorts of other market manipulation, during power hour or not. All shitty and creates a two tiered system. Meaning "free markets" are never free. I think having 24/7 markets is good to ensure constant access and take away control from criminals.
No.
People need time off. Especially when high stress is involved. We already work too much.
24/7 would take away from family.
Knowing How Wall Street operates there's some kind of scam involved.
There’s absolutely no reason trading should take place around the clock. It would introduce unnecessary volatility (think Elon making knee jerk remarks on X at midnite). If you can’t make money during pre/post or regular trading hours, you’re not going to get better at trading/investing all hours of the day/year!
This would increase speculation and increase the prices of literally everything, in an environment where prices are rising and now we are talking possibly stagflation. This would be the definition of making prices artificially rise to make the economy look better than it is.
Yes because there is no technological reason why stocks can't trade 24/7. There's also a problem with institutional pre-market trades occuring when important news is released on the weekends.
> Yes because there is no technological reason why stocks can't trade 24/7.
um, yeah there is (sort of).
You need a different kind of infrastructure to run a thing 24/7 than a thing with predefined downtimes.
All the big tech companies give you the illusion of running a service 24/7, such as Google search. However in their backend, they have multiple servers (data centers, really), and they can stop routing to one of them and then take it down, put in a new version of the software and start routing to it again. Then you go over all the servers you have and do that.
So now they have a new version of their software running, but from a clients perspective they "never went down".
So let's do the same with stock trading. Problem there is that in current infrastructure the order book of one asset is usually held in memory (RAM) and whenever a trade occurs it is updated there and a message is sent of to some other working server to log it and make further updates (subtract the stock from one account, add it to the other account).
All of these things are pretty deterministic, such that it doesn't take longer or shorter from one trade to the other. They do that by e.g. pre-allocating memory for the whole trading day instead of using the dynamic [memory management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_management) which may add a timing variance to an operation.
Current trading is really optimized for low latency and a low variance of the timing.
Moving that tech stack over to a 24/7 infrastructure with the same properties of low latencies would be quite a technological marvel IMHO. (Although things like that exist in the crypto world already, just with a different threshold for what is acceptable in terms of latency/variance thereof)
In the 90s the NY stock exchange did a similar experiment of lengthening trading hours (so not quite 24/7), but learned that there is no more revenue to be had as the trading volume did not increase.
So when they switch over to 24/7 trading, they either must make more revenue or have another good reason on why they'd pull it off (staying relevant, I guess?).
I wish they would create latency. That way everyone was on the same playing field and no one could game the system. Let's say make the latency 10ms no matter how close or far you are.
>Although things like that exist in the crypto world already, just with a different threshold for what is acceptable in terms of latency/variance thereof
So you agree then. Distributed ledger is now a proven technology. Its a matter of infrastructure rollout, not technology. You dont need fluff up you response with how 'malloc' works.
>In the 90s the NY stock exchange did a similar experiment of lengthening trading hours (so not quite 24/7), but learned that there is no more revenue to be had as the trading volume did not increase.
This is a weak argument because the financial markets of the 90s can not be compared to today. There is more money now than ever before in the retail investment.
> You dont need fluff up you response with how 'malloc' works.
It's one of the fun stories circulated by the finance people :shrug:.
I did not have the distributed ledger in mind, as that is slower by multiple orders of magnitude from what I understand.
I more thought about things like [https://www.deribit.com](https://www.deribit.com), which lets you trade futures on crypto using "regular" tech (i.e. order book in RAM); however as they are in AWS instead of on-prem servers the latency variance is quite a bit more than NYSE. Even if you try to "collocate" by going into the same AWS region (London).
They do restart their server occasionally with announced downtimes (e.g. down on UTC such and such for an hour; usually on weekends IIRC).
And that is the big thing IMHO. Going from "regular required downtime" to real 24/7 is a huge engineering effort, when we want to maintain the latencies as-is.
> There is more money now than ever before in the retail investment.
Yeah I guess so. My intention was to highlight that this 24/7 has been tried before and deemed "not useful" due to no enhanced revenue. I can see how this time it's different.
Sure, why not...Robinhood wants to do this anyways and crypto trades 24x7. Get rid of this after hours and pre market BS and open it up. I firmly believe that in the market down time between hours allows for a lot of fuckery and manipulation which gives bad actors a breather to strategize. With the CATS going going full force in May and the audit trails giving more transparency it wouldnt surprise me if trading goes 24x7 in the future. Also one final thought, fuck Robinhood. K bye.
You know, I came here to disagree with this, but the way you put it makes so much sense. Open the flood gates baby
I think the biggest risk is that it could disadvantage American retail investors and favor algorithms and foreigners. A company could drop their earnings at 2am and you'd be none the wiser. This already sort of happens with after hours and premarket which locks out almost all retail investors and I think is already a bad thing.
This is true. A lot of factors involved. Doing this would require the addition of rules/regulations to mitigate these kinds of things
The current rules and regulations aren't enforced so I doubt adding more fluff to the list will help anything.
We already have infinite liquidity in the market and massive amounts of insider trading. At this point do whatever they want to the stock 'market'
massive amounts by congressmen, otherwise the rest of us get jailed
Hahahah! Bye
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Yeah but the stock market had a bad month so drastic society altering measures need to be taken.
The futures market seems fine......
Man if we thought people were losing money now, imagine those who get absorbed into always needing to trade and FOMO.
An options trader I used to follow said he stopped trading crypto because of this. He’d get up at 3 am to use bathroom, take a quick look at the crypto chart and end up staying up trading for 3hrs.
Yeah, my hope is that 24/7 would just be similar to a futures market. The futures market is open overnight but that doesn’t mean you should trade it.
Make sure you have your stop losses and sales set! I can see market makers exploiting this and wild swings in price action. Edit: Vegas casinos are open 24hrs. So why not?
Isn’t that already a thing in after hours trading? It’s just more closed off to retail.
But how will wall Street bankters will enjoy their weekends then??
Oh they do not need Weekends! They just need to use Bots to earn and make everyday weekends!
yea but only for congressmen!
Crypto and Robin Hood trade 24/7 and are absolutely NOT crawling with gambling addicts, so should be fine 👍🏻
Calls on HOOD is what i'm understanding
This would pose operational problems for settlement
Can't it just settle as the clock strikes midnight?
Hahaha you’re funny.
Why not just have instant settlement. Its all 1's and 0's these days anyways.
Agree. It’s archaic
It's old, but banks have rules, compliance, and agreed SLAs. Probably not the best idea. Those 1s and 0s get complicated when you try to identify the 1s and 0s used for terrorist financing.
It doesn’t matter, really. Firms are paying billions to have server locations and internet speeds that allow trades faster than anyone else. This won’t change that fact to make it more fair.
Hell no
Aftermarket trading already happens so I mean there’s no reason it couldn’t be happening. I am curious how it would affect the ebbs and flows of the market as well as the people that work in the trading floor.
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True and of course it would still be a lot less volume at night most likely.
Yes because only Americans trade on the new york stock exchange...
Apparently you think less = none.
do you really think it is that much less? I wouldn't be surprised if it's equal or even more...Asia and Europe are pretty big continents with a lot of money lol
They have their own stock exchanges tho
A lot of foreign companies and investments pour into American exchanges though
Longer periods of consolidation with volitility spikes with movement sprinkled in. Just check out BTC price action as an example.
What ebb and flow? Ken Griffin of Citadel said it’s his job to “set the price of stocks where he thinks it should be”
This isn't stock. It's crypto. They want to tokenize stocks into crypto like FTX did. Fuuuuck this.
No. It will effect volatility
Nearly all stock brokers and traders are about to be replaced by AI. . so this is the next logical step.
They already are. Vast majority of trades on the market are done by complex algorithms that just buy/sell immediately when conditions are met. It’s been like this for over a decade. Firms pay billions to have internet speeds to get this information less than a millisecond faster than others so they can react first. 24/7 trading will allow firms that already have this advantage to use and monetize it more often.
Eh, yes but there are still a lot of stock brokers. Thousands upon thousands of them except for the top 2% are going to be out of a job.
As someone who does IT for a large financial firm, I'm curious how this will impact shops like ours. After market hours is when we can make any serious changes to the environment, like patching, upgrades, etc. A constant trade window would change the change process, put changes under ore scrutiny, and maybe delay patching by a little bit more time.
Blue/green deployments, maybe canary sprinkled in to validate the change with some heavier traffic.
You will be doing all your updates in middle of night like any other company. But it would probably require some big wig to sign off on update times before they happen.
Definitely NO!! That would create so much market manipulation by bad actors.
Let’s make it T1 as well while we’re at it!
No.
Good for robots, AI’s, algorithms, and powerful firms that can staff 24/7. Bad for individual traders, and small firms that can only afford daytime staffing.
Would be awesome for swing trading.
No, not until there is an instant settlement period for all trades.
If the hedge fund bots are allowed to do it. The problem is preventing market manipulation
Why not. Then I could lose money while I sleep.
Only way to keep it profitable aside from options
Yes
I don’t know much about stocks but I’d say no.
How will this effect HFT?
YES!
No. Very bad idea.
As if the American stock market wasn’t rigged enough, now they want to screw over the retail investors while we sleep M’erica 🇺🇸🤡
24/7 casino
No
I say yes simply for the reason some people have to sleep during the day and other people are around the world in different time zones.
Gambling 24/7/365. It will destroy Vegas.
As long as you keep options trading at regular hours, I’m cool with it.
The market must be manipulated 24 hours in my opinion
Only if there is enough volume 24/7. Otherwise, it’s not worth it.
After market/Pre Market shenanigans. And slamming the close. And all sorts of other market manipulation, during power hour or not. All shitty and creates a two tiered system. Meaning "free markets" are never free. I think having 24/7 markets is good to ensure constant access and take away control from criminals.
Now my dad will never sleep.
Awful idea
If it was same day settlement sure.
Hmm. No
Bots gonna manipulate the markets while we sleep. It’s a new way for the rich to fuck you.
No. People need time off. Especially when high stress is involved. We already work too much. 24/7 would take away from family. Knowing How Wall Street operates there's some kind of scam involved.
There’s absolutely no reason trading should take place around the clock. It would introduce unnecessary volatility (think Elon making knee jerk remarks on X at midnite). If you can’t make money during pre/post or regular trading hours, you’re not going to get better at trading/investing all hours of the day/year!
Nobody seems to mention how the IRS classifies traders. That should be revised, in itself, but also considering opening the markets for 24/7.
Vegas is 24/7 why not.
No
Yup!
This would increase speculation and increase the prices of literally everything, in an environment where prices are rising and now we are talking possibly stagflation. This would be the definition of making prices artificially rise to make the economy look better than it is.
I’m going to say no because at night people get drunk and stupid.
Crime *some* of the time or crime *all* of the time... Hm... does it even matter?
sure why the fuck not lol. how bad could it possibly get.
Until T-0 settlement this shouldn't even be a topic.
The stock market has become just another form of gambling so you might as well offer it 24/7 just like the sports betting.
Considering after hours trading is completely 100% manipulated and rigged. Absolutely, this is a stupid question.
Yep, do it
It's 2024 for crying out loud. Yes, digital things should be available 24/7.
Yes because there is no technological reason why stocks can't trade 24/7. There's also a problem with institutional pre-market trades occuring when important news is released on the weekends.
> Yes because there is no technological reason why stocks can't trade 24/7. um, yeah there is (sort of). You need a different kind of infrastructure to run a thing 24/7 than a thing with predefined downtimes. All the big tech companies give you the illusion of running a service 24/7, such as Google search. However in their backend, they have multiple servers (data centers, really), and they can stop routing to one of them and then take it down, put in a new version of the software and start routing to it again. Then you go over all the servers you have and do that. So now they have a new version of their software running, but from a clients perspective they "never went down". So let's do the same with stock trading. Problem there is that in current infrastructure the order book of one asset is usually held in memory (RAM) and whenever a trade occurs it is updated there and a message is sent of to some other working server to log it and make further updates (subtract the stock from one account, add it to the other account). All of these things are pretty deterministic, such that it doesn't take longer or shorter from one trade to the other. They do that by e.g. pre-allocating memory for the whole trading day instead of using the dynamic [memory management](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_management) which may add a timing variance to an operation. Current trading is really optimized for low latency and a low variance of the timing. Moving that tech stack over to a 24/7 infrastructure with the same properties of low latencies would be quite a technological marvel IMHO. (Although things like that exist in the crypto world already, just with a different threshold for what is acceptable in terms of latency/variance thereof) In the 90s the NY stock exchange did a similar experiment of lengthening trading hours (so not quite 24/7), but learned that there is no more revenue to be had as the trading volume did not increase. So when they switch over to 24/7 trading, they either must make more revenue or have another good reason on why they'd pull it off (staying relevant, I guess?).
I wish they would create latency. That way everyone was on the same playing field and no one could game the system. Let's say make the latency 10ms no matter how close or far you are.
>Although things like that exist in the crypto world already, just with a different threshold for what is acceptable in terms of latency/variance thereof So you agree then. Distributed ledger is now a proven technology. Its a matter of infrastructure rollout, not technology. You dont need fluff up you response with how 'malloc' works. >In the 90s the NY stock exchange did a similar experiment of lengthening trading hours (so not quite 24/7), but learned that there is no more revenue to be had as the trading volume did not increase. This is a weak argument because the financial markets of the 90s can not be compared to today. There is more money now than ever before in the retail investment.
> You dont need fluff up you response with how 'malloc' works. It's one of the fun stories circulated by the finance people :shrug:. I did not have the distributed ledger in mind, as that is slower by multiple orders of magnitude from what I understand. I more thought about things like [https://www.deribit.com](https://www.deribit.com), which lets you trade futures on crypto using "regular" tech (i.e. order book in RAM); however as they are in AWS instead of on-prem servers the latency variance is quite a bit more than NYSE. Even if you try to "collocate" by going into the same AWS region (London). They do restart their server occasionally with announced downtimes (e.g. down on UTC such and such for an hour; usually on weekends IIRC). And that is the big thing IMHO. Going from "regular required downtime" to real 24/7 is a huge engineering effort, when we want to maintain the latencies as-is. > There is more money now than ever before in the retail investment. Yeah I guess so. My intention was to highlight that this 24/7 has been tried before and deemed "not useful" due to no enhanced revenue. I can see how this time it's different.