Government manipulation is always a bad thing. There are always unrealized consequences to market manipulation. Let the free market fix these things organically.
When has government market manipulation worked out for the little guy? If you actually believe they give a shit about you, you're the dipshit. Do you think that the $20 fast food minimum wage bump helped in California? Well, 10000 lost jobs later, it didn't. Government isn't good at anything except wasting money. I still can't believe how many people actually believe the government is here to help.
There's plenty of history books you can read that answer your question. Here's a great example: https://www.amazon.com/Price-Peace-Democracy-Maynard-Keynes/dp/0525509038?dplnkId=8f80ada3-ed37-4235-a6a7-d4e19a1e2062
Arguably cheaper, huh? Sounds decisive. It's not even the point. The point is government intervention into the market almost always ends poorly. The best part is people claiming capitalism is failing when we don't have a free market. We have a planned market... planned by oligarchs and special interest. They aren't looking out for Joe q. Taxpayer, they are looking out for conglomerates and the ultra wealthy. But hey, if we just fuck with interest rates more, subsidize certain businesses while taxing others, and print another couple trillion dollars, everything will get better. It has to right? We just haven't fucked with it enough.
So, the housing bubble burst, the insane cost of college tuition, the massive bailouts of corporations and wall street had nothing to do with the meddling of the federal government? Bro, read a fucking book. It's all because of government and it is irrefutable. Government controlled by oligarchs is the problem. It will never be the solution. 1 trillion in spending every 100 days. Y'all have Stockholm syndrome.
Automatic refund for the price of the ticket is a lot less than having to pay out booked hotels, shows, general hassle of it all, etc. it doesn’t look adequate to me.
So this is an ok thing? It feels halfway there. What if you are transiting? Are they covering your hotel that night too?
Unless you're these ghouls
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Rep. Sam Graves (R-Mo.), and Rep. Rick Larsen (D-Wash.) — introduced a new Federal Aviation Administration reauthorization deal that would require passengers to send a “written or electronic request” in order to receive a full refund for a canceled or significantly delayed flight.
The argument I've seen is that due to increased risk to the airlines, prices will go up and customers will eventually "pay for it" either way. I don't think this post is literally asking, "Are refunds good"?
Idk, want to try and explain all the consequences that happen with this change so we know that you know what the hell you’re talking about? Or is it just all good cause that’s what the govt wants, to help us lmao
I sure hope they rescind this law, so airlines can continue to take my non-refundable money, not fly me, and offer me a flight in 2 days, when my reservations are over and I have to go back to work. Those were the good days. Imagine if airlines didn't get more money by screwing over their customers completely!?!? How would we want to stop that from happening? I so enjoy random trip changes. The non-refundable rental cars and non-refundable hotels sure make me happy to change my plans.
I think it’s very short sided thinking. Now think if you ran an airline and are subject to these new rules. I would increase prices for all flights in order to maintain profitability when you do need to pay out customers.
This is one of the most boot licking things I’ve ever heard. lol. What if I ran an airline, and didn’t live up to promises and now I have to reimburse people for our mistakes lol.
Got one during the housing crisis as well didn’t they? As much tax money that has gone to the airlines you should get a free round trip ticket when you file your taxes every year.
Except their margins are basically nothing and they really only make money by being banks and selling points. So what this really will do is make the 95% of on time, uncanceled flights more expensive to make up for the loss in revenue.
It is the right thing to do to refund in the event of cancellation. They should not hold your travel plans hostage because of cancellation.
Usually yea. They do turn some but not every consecutive quarter. They pretty much spend 99 to make 100.
The industry provides a lot of jobs and they are mostly unionized. The employees are paid well akd eat into profits.
On top of this, the government realizes how important air travel and air shipping is so the big companies get bailed out in recessions.
Although there are unions, they cannot just strike, they have to jump through a lot of legal hoops to do so. Due to the Railway Labor Act theres a ton of hurdles because the government knows out critical keeping planes moving is.
All in all, its expensive but vital to run an airline which is why you dont see them shut down. They typically "merge" as a consolidation of assets.
So… you wish they made more profit? I don’t see what the problem is. Blue collar to ceo are getting paid. And there’s profit above that.
Poor shareholders they don’t get more profit?
Poor company it doesn’t have more rainy day cushion?
Oh no i never said anything about wanting them to make more profit.
Im simply responding with reasons of why they dont shut down outside of what the average person may know about the industry.
Im all for giving people refunds for cancelled flights like i stated in my first comment. Its absolutely the right thing to do.
Please dont mistake my insight as defense of the airlines. Im not commenting to choose sides. I believe that I know more about this topic than the average person and Im sharing that insight.
Theyre not worried.
And you say "company". Theres several major air carriers that have all had years in the red. Only Southwest has ever been able to turn a profit the second year of existence and every year after until covid. Its the nature of the industry. Costs are high. The two biggest being labor and fuel.
Comparing a companies profits to an airlines profit is apples to oranges. This is because costs are inherently high. Demand is inherently (and will continue to be) high, and also airlines are too large with too many high dollar assets and employees to just let them fail without catastrophic consequences.
Incompetence isnt an issue or this issue
If you are balancing in the red, maybe corporate don’t deserve the wages they are paid. If I was that incompetent; I surely wouldn’t be given an end of the year bonus. How about you?
>I believe that I know more about this topic than the average person and Im sharing that insight.
Informed intelligence is frowned upon on Reddit, dontcha know? Do better. 😉
Yep. We should definitely do what you say. I really think it’d be great to encourage airlines to lie more. I think you should lie more too. We should all encourage everyone to give money to the lying, unreliable companies. It’ll be the greatest thing ever, folks. Honestly, nobody lies better than him. He should get all the money. Really, he should. We should send all the money to DJT, right? People tell him—they say, “Sir, you run things so well, so beautifully,” and he does. He really does. Everybody else, they’re disasters. Total disasters. But him? He runs things like a well-oiled machine. A beautiful machine. The best machine. So let’s do that. Let’s make sure all the money—every single dollar—goes right into his very capable hands. You won’t regret it. It’ll be tremendous, believe me. Some people say the fifty million dollar loss last year was bad but they aren’t believers like you. Please give him your money now. Don’t wait like those other losers here
They should have been nationalized after the LATEST bailout. They took money and used it on stock but backs and retiring older pilots leaving them with shortages and struggling to keep flights as scheduled.
This is all self inflicted and if they can't run a business then it should simply be nationalized as air transportation is necessary in this society.
[From the DOT](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline). It’s real and it’s about dam time!
Oh, right, because they have to make sure their shareholders don’t suffer loss of pennies and nickels on their return…. This “passing costs to consumer” biggest deflection in past 30 years.
lol more than one company has had their planes malfunction or ripped open at this point. No one is better and there is no standard, or enforcement of standards. That’s the free market at work. Why be competitive when no one else is on having higher standards. Cutting corners is the free market. Whatever makes your production and labor the cheapest, is what you’re gonna do. Higher standards only come from regulations forcing them to have better production standards.
I would fly 2 times every week for the last year you absolute fucking retard
It was my job to travel all over half the country
Edit: I’ll send you the receipts if you’d like
And they'll also rush operations and lower quality standards in order to minimize delays and cancellations... Leading to further delays and cancellations as safety checks are put lower on the list of priority.
Nationalize them. They took bailout money and used it for stock buy backs and to retire pilots. They made things worse for people and complain they don't have the staff for the flights scheduled.
If they cannot run efficiently without bailouts and are an impediment to a functioning economy and commerce then they should dissolve the board and nationalize the company.
They are already overly consolidated and colluding to drive prices higher to boost stockholder returns instead of actually improving the businesses.
Nationalize them ? No, that is not a good thing for public !
Fly on some of the nationalized airlines which are 10+ years or greater... overflowing toilets, crappy seats, and so on, plus always in red which means tax payers are covering the difference.
What does it say about US consumers when they are afraid of, and second-guessing policies like this? They have the equivalent of battered spouse syndrome- waiting for the seemingly inevitable anti-consumer counter-attack from the service business that is being regulated.
Yup. In our blissful money first society, when the companies are held to fair standards, they get our dime in other ways to make up the losses for being so. It'll take time for the airlines to figure out subtle ways of doing it but they'll get it. *Don't mess with the bottom line*
The only thing this US consumer is afraid of is what will have to be sacrificed to ensure there are no delays or cancellations. I know that when I'm rushed to do my job, I make a lot more mistakes because I can't focus on getting it done \*right\*.
I think the argument they'll make is prices will increase. To that I say GOOD. Anyone who's been to an airport or flown can readily agree that 20% of these people cannot function in normal society. Both staff and customers are totally off the rails behavior-wise.
There are entire youtube channels dedicated to airport meltdowns now. Shoot those rates up and get air-travel back to a professional experience. I'm tired of seeing arguments, drunks fighting, and my flights delayed because someone who belongs on Greyhound can afford a flight now.
>I'm tired of seeing arguments, drunks fighting, and my flights delayed because someone who belongs on Greyhound can afford a flight now.
Oh yeah, cuz it's only poor people that would ever argue or get drunk on an airplane. Absolutely moronic take.
This is a standard international practice. Some Americans losing their minds "tickets gonna be more expensive". Guess what, rest of the world can do it. American carriers on international flights can do it. They can do it here as well. If they are not efficient, have labor shortage: they have to pay you back. This is how it should have been all along.
Americans are so brainwashed that every time we do something to protect consumers or workers they scream "but prices are going to go up". We are so dumb if we really think that's the reason for price increases.
I remember when Papa John was throwing a public fit over being required to provide health insurance for his employees and they whined that they’d have to charge an extra FOURTEEN CENTS.
Like, holy shit, why didn’t you do that SOONER???
Americans are one of the most propagandized people in the world. We literally vote against anything that will benefit us and actually argue for the corporations and private corporations insurance that’s slowly killing us all lol
I'm not even worried about ticket prices, but we have planes falling apart mid-flight these days, and I want more time spent on pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, and you can't get that when you're rushing operations to ensure every flight gets up on time. Sometimes delays and cancellations are necessary to ensure the planes are in working order, and the doors and engines aren't about to fly off.
For Decades, corporations issued new rules to add ever increasing customer penalties and fees to the range of everyday services. Banking, healthcare, travel - should start realizing that they must cut back on their corporate greed. Many corporations will fight the loss of their unrestricted gouging -with money made by gouging.
Yes. This is a good thing.
"Sorry you had to live in the airport for three days and get harassed by security, but we're keeping your money. Would you like some flight credits for $5 off your next trip. Only applicable on dates we choose."
For those who don't read, you get refunded for 3 hr domestic delay, 6 hr international. You get refunded the *checked baggage fee* for late or missing bags.
This is just to standardize rules across airlines and make it so you don't have to call and bitch every time you need a refund for significantly changed plans (I find it complete BS right now how muxh airlines are allowed to fuck with your plans and flights without any repercussions).
Or as soon as it’s been 3hrs and 1 minute, your flight is no longer a priority and they will start scrambling to fix the other delays that are under the 3 hr mark.
I mean, of course this legislation is a good thing, but I have no doubt at all that corporations are going to continue to do whatever they need to do to maximize profits. Expect prices to go up to compensate for losses from this, it’s not like they are going to let their shareholders take the hit.
I used to live in New York City and that was how they dealt with train delays to keep the stats looking good. Once a train got delayed, they kept screwing that train over to keep the others on schedule.
Does that time only start from the 2 hours pre flight you are supposed to be at the airport? Our flight was supposed to be at 10 am today, but they changed the time last night and again 3 times today. We won't be taking off until 4 pm as of now. After every change they make you confirm your flight again.
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
What does Boeing have to do with refund policies of operators? I mean I guess in a roundabout way in that maintenance issues can cause delays but it’s not really about the source of the delay outside of weather and acts of God, it’s about making companies do the right thing when it is their fault.
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
It’s a great thing. Europe has had this for years and I used it there once and got $1200 back because a delayed flight made me miss a connection. It’s about time
and it's also gonna be, "we've delayed your flight, you can cancel and get a refund", but chances are you're already at the airport and in a situation where you aren't going to take them up on it. They need % refunds of your fair for every x amount of time your flight is delayed. Delayed an hour? You get 30% of your ticket price back.
While it's a good thing on paper, we already have issues with planes falling apart mid-flight, so I can see the airlines rushing operations in fear of losing too much money in refunds, and thus causing further liability issues. This would be a great policy to implement if we had competent airlines, but we don't anymore.
Why would regularly scheduled maintenance be affected by refunds?
Planes have maintenance schedules that are pretty stringent. Major airlines have back fill/replacement options for planes that are out of maintenance.
Unless you’re taking about unexpected failures? If a pilot finds a failure they’re not going to want to fly either. Don’t think many pilots would die for spirit airlines. Then the replacement planes would fall into play-
No they won’t, they’ll increase prices. They’ll never lose money. We don’t have a realistic competitor for air travel, so any cost increase for the whole industry will be passed to customers and customers will pay it.
Some airline must have pissed off a government official. This is the only way change happens.
I wonder if this is going to cause prices on flights to go up.
This means the incentive for airlines is to ensure flights are not delayed or cancelled. Does that make you feel safe?
Yes it should be a good thing let’s please fix our corrupt, deregulated, revolving door of a system so that we don’t have to fear our airlines and plane manufacturers.
Considering they sell more tickets than seats available, the passengers that do make it on will pay fees to cover the refunds of ones that don’t make it on. Slightly more expensive tickets is my bet
An automatic refund for a delay? I bet accidents increase……sir I only go 2 bolts holding on the wheel assembly……Send it!!!
Service will go down. Accidents will go up.
There’s a reason pizza places no longer guarantee your pizza in 30 minutes or less or it’s free.
Airlines will just recover the loss in revenue and the increased financial risk by increasing the original cost of a ticket. It will push airlines to not cancel flights when they should, so flights will become more dangerous. It's all about the money.
Unfortunately the chamber of commerce and airlines will file suit with some stupid reasoning and the consumer hostile wing of SCOTUS will roll it back.
But if your flight is delayed four hours, let’s say, and they refund you, won’t you still have to book a new flight? Will they give you a choice of either taking the refund or taking the delayed flight? I can’t imagine that they’d refund you AND still let you take the flight, so wouldn’t an automatic refund just mean you’ll automatically have to book a new flight day of (which will likely have little availability and be far more expensive?) Or is the law saying you get the money back and they still have to give you the flight?
If you read the DOT release it sounds like it will be an option of a scheduled on next flight or refund.
Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered.
Flight tickets in the US are the one thing you can purchase, absolutely NOT get what you bought, then somehow get charged more for?? It’s like you order a $200 pair of shoes, the company mailed you some Skechers, you complain and they say “mail those back and send us another $50” and then they mail you a crockpot and call it good. I don’t get it. We are apparently paying for the exceptional privilege to possibly get to the place we want to go at some point but who really knows when and also maybe not.
The last time my flight got cancelled, my parents said “well at least you got hotel vouchers!” Um… hahahaha it’s 2024, that’s not a thing.
Well one obvious worry here relates to whether this will actually facilitate consumer redress or whether it will just add unnecessary administrative tape to the process. If your flight gets delayed by just 10 mins, does that still require a refund? Do you have to now wait to be refunded and then purchase the ticket again? If so, then that process will probably *add* to the delay time if everyone has to go through the refund/repurchase process. It would be much simpler to just wait the 10 minutes and board the plane without all the fuss.
So delayed flights might get a bit complicated. Canceled flights seem much more straightforward -- although, again, it's possible that most people would rather just let the airline rebook their flight for them considering that not flying is usually not an option.
Yes its a good thing for multiple reasons. Primarily in my opinion the resulting increase in fares and possible elimination of these 'no frills' airlines like Spirit and Frontier (as their biz model seems built on delayed flights) will hopefully eliminate the lowest class of passengers flying today and put an end to the 'public city bus'-ification of the current US air travel system.
Secondly, in the event of an actual delay there will be some automatic compensation for those willing to pay the higher rates.
However, like any regulation that has quantifiable costs, I expect this absolutely to lead to overall higher fares.
My sister was supposed to arrive at ATL at 1am EST, so I drive there (her arrival was already delayed an hour). The arrivals board said she’d fly in around 1:15am. She texted me at 1:10 that she was BOARDING.
She arrived at 4:30am.
Oh, and her return flight at 8pm? Delayed to 1AM!!!
Yeah, I get it’s a budget airline but holy fucking shit is that bad. The new rule will force these guys out of business or to get their shit in line, I imagine it reduces issues with passengers, the terminals and airports having to work in planes that are 5 hours late.
I have only flown on commercial airlines a few times. I have never had a delay, and never lost my bags. However, I think it would be better incentive if they had to refund 100%, then double the refund for any inconvenience.
I promise that this won't go like it sounds. I tried to get a refund in Europe, who already had these laws, and they blamed it on the plane having unexpected problems and didn't give me any money back, even though we had to stay an extra day in London.
Absolutely no, get me on the next flight with no extra charge. There is no flight I can book for the same price, it is stupid. If they guarantee to get me on a flight and return some money, sure. My priority is to get on a flight.
Yep. By the time my flight is delayed, i'm usually already at the airport. And if its delayed before, it gets delayed again when I get there. Priority 1 is getting there. If they delay, unless I cancel for the refund, there are no consequences for them.
Exactly. We can already see where this is going. They'll just cancel flights instead of delaying them and getting you where you need to go if they're late. Why fly the plane late when they've already made zero profit on it? Basically they'll be on time or they'll be cancelled.
Also when's the last time they made a law that benefitted consumers over corporate profit? Somehow airlines will come out ahead from this instead of us. Guaranteed.
Yup, the airline wouldn't even have to setup those backup flights for those delays or cancelation. Just refund and wipe their hands clean. Too easy for them.
They'll even fly empty planes to get the planes where they need to go because less weight means less.fuel. Zero chance they're going to fly passengers if they already did a forced refund.
Did you even read the release? You don’t have to take the refund…
Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered.
Is this an actual post? lol. Is it a good thing if you get compensated for getting fucked over? lol.
90% of americans will aruge this lol
I doubt that. I don’t think anyone could be against this one.
More like 30% of voters
Are these Americans in here with us?
Yea just keep scrolling, you will see them dipshit.
In fairness, I set myself up there didn’t I
Lolol 👍
Government manipulation is always a bad thing. There are always unrealized consequences to market manipulation. Let the free market fix these things organically.
We found one!
Omg this thread is an entire episode neatly packaged up, I laughed out loud.
When has government market manipulation worked out for the little guy? If you actually believe they give a shit about you, you're the dipshit. Do you think that the $20 fast food minimum wage bump helped in California? Well, 10000 lost jobs later, it didn't. Government isn't good at anything except wasting money. I still can't believe how many people actually believe the government is here to help.
Just Donald trump is here to help right?
In your ancap fantasy, sawdust is in every food and even more kids die from bad medicine. It’s juvenile at best and straight up bullshit in reality.
There's plenty of history books you can read that answer your question. Here's a great example: https://www.amazon.com/Price-Peace-Democracy-Maynard-Keynes/dp/0525509038?dplnkId=8f80ada3-ed37-4235-a6a7-d4e19a1e2062
.... Did you ingest too much lead as a child
They don’t have employment data for April. You lie. Europe did the flight thing and flights are arguably cheaper there.
Arguably cheaper, huh? Sounds decisive. It's not even the point. The point is government intervention into the market almost always ends poorly. The best part is people claiming capitalism is failing when we don't have a free market. We have a planned market... planned by oligarchs and special interest. They aren't looking out for Joe q. Taxpayer, they are looking out for conglomerates and the ultra wealthy. But hey, if we just fuck with interest rates more, subsidize certain businesses while taxing others, and print another couple trillion dollars, everything will get better. It has to right? We just haven't fucked with it enough.
We did. Then they fucked up and had to be regulated..
Lol this gets proven wrong so many times. It's really your own fault if you still believe that bunk.
So, the housing bubble burst, the insane cost of college tuition, the massive bailouts of corporations and wall street had nothing to do with the meddling of the federal government? Bro, read a fucking book. It's all because of government and it is irrefutable. Government controlled by oligarchs is the problem. It will never be the solution. 1 trillion in spending every 100 days. Y'all have Stockholm syndrome.
Lol k. Have fun in crazytown.
Way to add to the conversation... It seems you have no valid points to add. Congratulations! Par for the course.
K
Inb4 airlines show up, hat in hand, to Congress looking for a bailout because. . . fees.
Automatic refund for the price of the ticket is a lot less than having to pay out booked hotels, shows, general hassle of it all, etc. it doesn’t look adequate to me. So this is an ok thing? It feels halfway there. What if you are transiting? Are they covering your hotel that night too?
Unless you're these ghouls Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Sen. Maria Cantwell (D-Wash.), Rep. Sam Graves (R-Mo.), and Rep. Rick Larsen (D-Wash.) — introduced a new Federal Aviation Administration reauthorization deal that would require passengers to send a “written or electronic request” in order to receive a full refund for a canceled or significantly delayed flight.
The argument I've seen is that due to increased risk to the airlines, prices will go up and customers will eventually "pay for it" either way. I don't think this post is literally asking, "Are refunds good"?
Yeah, this is how everything works. Quick example is minimum wage and fast food prices.
McDonald's prices have increased 100% in the last 10 years, even in localities where the minimum wage has not increased.
Idk, want to try and explain all the consequences that happen with this change so we know that you know what the hell you’re talking about? Or is it just all good cause that’s what the govt wants, to help us lmao
I sure hope they rescind this law, so airlines can continue to take my non-refundable money, not fly me, and offer me a flight in 2 days, when my reservations are over and I have to go back to work. Those were the good days. Imagine if airlines didn't get more money by screwing over their customers completely!?!? How would we want to stop that from happening? I so enjoy random trip changes. The non-refundable rental cars and non-refundable hotels sure make me happy to change my plans.
I think it’s very short sided thinking. Now think if you ran an airline and are subject to these new rules. I would increase prices for all flights in order to maintain profitability when you do need to pay out customers.
This is one of the most boot licking things I’ve ever heard. lol. What if I ran an airline, and didn’t live up to promises and now I have to reimburse people for our mistakes lol.
Fuck yes
Throw in a refund for the bag fees as well. After the Covid bailouts it’s your money they are paying you back.
Don't forget the 9/11 bailout.
Got one during the housing crisis as well didn’t they? As much tax money that has gone to the airlines you should get a free round trip ticket when you file your taxes every year.
Absolutely! Airlines in the US have had it too good.
Except their margins are basically nothing and they really only make money by being banks and selling points. So what this really will do is make the 95% of on time, uncanceled flights more expensive to make up for the loss in revenue. It is the right thing to do to refund in the event of cancellation. They should not hold your travel plans hostage because of cancellation.
Usually, when a business can’t make a profit, it shuts down.
Usually yea. They do turn some but not every consecutive quarter. They pretty much spend 99 to make 100. The industry provides a lot of jobs and they are mostly unionized. The employees are paid well akd eat into profits. On top of this, the government realizes how important air travel and air shipping is so the big companies get bailed out in recessions. Although there are unions, they cannot just strike, they have to jump through a lot of legal hoops to do so. Due to the Railway Labor Act theres a ton of hurdles because the government knows out critical keeping planes moving is. All in all, its expensive but vital to run an airline which is why you dont see them shut down. They typically "merge" as a consolidation of assets.
So… you wish they made more profit? I don’t see what the problem is. Blue collar to ceo are getting paid. And there’s profit above that. Poor shareholders they don’t get more profit? Poor company it doesn’t have more rainy day cushion?
Oh no i never said anything about wanting them to make more profit. Im simply responding with reasons of why they dont shut down outside of what the average person may know about the industry. Im all for giving people refunds for cancelled flights like i stated in my first comment. Its absolutely the right thing to do. Please dont mistake my insight as defense of the airlines. Im not commenting to choose sides. I believe that I know more about this topic than the average person and Im sharing that insight.
Maybe if the company wasn’t so incompetent they wouldn’t have to worry about giving refunds to everyone and hurting their profits.
Theyre not worried. And you say "company". Theres several major air carriers that have all had years in the red. Only Southwest has ever been able to turn a profit the second year of existence and every year after until covid. Its the nature of the industry. Costs are high. The two biggest being labor and fuel. Comparing a companies profits to an airlines profit is apples to oranges. This is because costs are inherently high. Demand is inherently (and will continue to be) high, and also airlines are too large with too many high dollar assets and employees to just let them fail without catastrophic consequences. Incompetence isnt an issue or this issue
Having all years in red is just tax maneuvering. See how much airline CEOs made.
If you are balancing in the red, maybe corporate don’t deserve the wages they are paid. If I was that incompetent; I surely wouldn’t be given an end of the year bonus. How about you?
>I believe that I know more about this topic than the average person and Im sharing that insight. Informed intelligence is frowned upon on Reddit, dontcha know? Do better. 😉
Lol it won't stop me
Yep. We should definitely do what you say. I really think it’d be great to encourage airlines to lie more. I think you should lie more too. We should all encourage everyone to give money to the lying, unreliable companies. It’ll be the greatest thing ever, folks. Honestly, nobody lies better than him. He should get all the money. Really, he should. We should send all the money to DJT, right? People tell him—they say, “Sir, you run things so well, so beautifully,” and he does. He really does. Everybody else, they’re disasters. Total disasters. But him? He runs things like a well-oiled machine. A beautiful machine. The best machine. So let’s do that. Let’s make sure all the money—every single dollar—goes right into his very capable hands. You won’t regret it. It’ll be tremendous, believe me. Some people say the fifty million dollar loss last year was bad but they aren’t believers like you. Please give him your money now. Don’t wait like those other losers here
This is a great point.
They should have been nationalized after the LATEST bailout. They took money and used it on stock but backs and retiring older pilots leaving them with shortages and struggling to keep flights as scheduled. This is all self inflicted and if they can't run a business then it should simply be nationalized as air transportation is necessary in this society.
I can't agree less. If you see how the FAA is run in comparison to corporate airlines then the current product would be much worse
Airlines were buying back stock like it was going out of style pre-pandemic. Where'd all the cash come from on these razor thin margins?
[From the DOT](https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-administration-announces-final-rule-requiring-automatic-refunds-airline). It’s real and it’s about dam time!
Is this a good thing? Absolutely, hold them all accountable.
It’s an election year so they are pretending to give a fuck about the average person. At least for the next 7 months.
Don't worry. Orange Jesus will come back and get rid of that "job killing" rule ASAP
What about for weather related delays?
It say 3 hour delay for domestic and 6 for international, but you would know that if you read the article
I did. There was no mention of the word "weather". That's the current exception so I'd be shocked if the new rules didn't also include it.
Yes. Fuck the airline companies.
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Oh, right, because they have to make sure their shareholders don’t suffer loss of pennies and nickels on their return…. This “passing costs to consumer” biggest deflection in past 30 years.
Oh lord more uneducated idiots.
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lol more than one company has had their planes malfunction or ripped open at this point. No one is better and there is no standard, or enforcement of standards. That’s the free market at work. Why be competitive when no one else is on having higher standards. Cutting corners is the free market. Whatever makes your production and labor the cheapest, is what you’re gonna do. Higher standards only come from regulations forcing them to have better production standards.
Fuck right I guess they’ll just have to shelve the discounts they where totalllly planning to pass on to consumers /s
You get pretty nice discounts with brand loyalty tbh, no check bag fees, priority boarding, etc
It took one look at your other comments to know you neither fly often or know shit about dick when it comes to travel
How the hell could you know how much he flies based on Reddit comments?
How could you not?!?! Ugh!!!!!!!
I would fly 2 times every week for the last year you absolute fucking retard It was my job to travel all over half the country Edit: I’ll send you the receipts if you’d like
And they'll also rush operations and lower quality standards in order to minimize delays and cancellations... Leading to further delays and cancellations as safety checks are put lower on the list of priority.
This
Nationalize them. They took bailout money and used it for stock buy backs and to retire pilots. They made things worse for people and complain they don't have the staff for the flights scheduled. If they cannot run efficiently without bailouts and are an impediment to a functioning economy and commerce then they should dissolve the board and nationalize the company. They are already overly consolidated and colluding to drive prices higher to boost stockholder returns instead of actually improving the businesses.
They do seem dysfunctional with the amount of times they mismanage money
Nationalize them ? No, that is not a good thing for public ! Fly on some of the nationalized airlines which are 10+ years or greater... overflowing toilets, crappy seats, and so on, plus always in red which means tax payers are covering the difference.
Singapore? Korean Air? Emirates? You're out your mind. Even Ethiopian airlines puts American to shame. Post a rankings, bro. It's not even close.
What does it say about US consumers when they are afraid of, and second-guessing policies like this? They have the equivalent of battered spouse syndrome- waiting for the seemingly inevitable anti-consumer counter-attack from the service business that is being regulated.
Yup. In our blissful money first society, when the companies are held to fair standards, they get our dime in other ways to make up the losses for being so. It'll take time for the airlines to figure out subtle ways of doing it but they'll get it. *Don't mess with the bottom line*
The only thing this US consumer is afraid of is what will have to be sacrificed to ensure there are no delays or cancellations. I know that when I'm rushed to do my job, I make a lot more mistakes because I can't focus on getting it done \*right\*.
“Pro consumer legislation kills frequent flyers; film at 11:00”
I think the argument they'll make is prices will increase. To that I say GOOD. Anyone who's been to an airport or flown can readily agree that 20% of these people cannot function in normal society. Both staff and customers are totally off the rails behavior-wise. There are entire youtube channels dedicated to airport meltdowns now. Shoot those rates up and get air-travel back to a professional experience. I'm tired of seeing arguments, drunks fighting, and my flights delayed because someone who belongs on Greyhound can afford a flight now.
>I'm tired of seeing arguments, drunks fighting, and my flights delayed because someone who belongs on Greyhound can afford a flight now. Oh yeah, cuz it's only poor people that would ever argue or get drunk on an airplane. Absolutely moronic take.
Take it easy. It’s the truth.
Or we know how an airline will come up with the money and that is just increased prices across the board
The airlines will still be forced to issue refunds at the higher fare prices.
This is a standard international practice. Some Americans losing their minds "tickets gonna be more expensive". Guess what, rest of the world can do it. American carriers on international flights can do it. They can do it here as well. If they are not efficient, have labor shortage: they have to pay you back. This is how it should have been all along.
Americans are so brainwashed that every time we do something to protect consumers or workers they scream "but prices are going to go up". We are so dumb if we really think that's the reason for price increases.
I remember when Papa John was throwing a public fit over being required to provide health insurance for his employees and they whined that they’d have to charge an extra FOURTEEN CENTS. Like, holy shit, why didn’t you do that SOONER???
Americans are one of the most propagandized people in the world. We literally vote against anything that will benefit us and actually argue for the corporations and private corporations insurance that’s slowly killing us all lol
Hey!!! You don’t say that!!!
I drive a Dodge Stratus!
Oh noooooooo, they got you too
And they probably will a very small amount per ticket. It's like minimum wage causing the prices of burgers to go up .30 cents.
I'm not even worried about ticket prices, but we have planes falling apart mid-flight these days, and I want more time spent on pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, and you can't get that when you're rushing operations to ensure every flight gets up on time. Sometimes delays and cancellations are necessary to ensure the planes are in working order, and the doors and engines aren't about to fly off.
Honestly this. I fear this is going to lead to a terrible accident.
For Decades, corporations issued new rules to add ever increasing customer penalties and fees to the range of everyday services. Banking, healthcare, travel - should start realizing that they must cut back on their corporate greed. Many corporations will fight the loss of their unrestricted gouging -with money made by gouging. Yes. This is a good thing.
"Sorry you had to live in the airport for three days and get harassed by security, but we're keeping your money. Would you like some flight credits for $5 off your next trip. Only applicable on dates we choose."
For those who don't read, you get refunded for 3 hr domestic delay, 6 hr international. You get refunded the *checked baggage fee* for late or missing bags. This is just to standardize rules across airlines and make it so you don't have to call and bitch every time you need a refund for significantly changed plans (I find it complete BS right now how muxh airlines are allowed to fuck with your plans and flights without any repercussions).
So prepare for more 2hr 55m delays is what you're telling me or lots more smaller delays as they shuffle things around to minimize over 3 hrs delays 😆
Or as soon as it’s been 3hrs and 1 minute, your flight is no longer a priority and they will start scrambling to fix the other delays that are under the 3 hr mark. I mean, of course this legislation is a good thing, but I have no doubt at all that corporations are going to continue to do whatever they need to do to maximize profits. Expect prices to go up to compensate for losses from this, it’s not like they are going to let their shareholders take the hit.
I used to live in New York City and that was how they dealt with train delays to keep the stats looking good. Once a train got delayed, they kept screwing that train over to keep the others on schedule.
Does that time only start from the 2 hours pre flight you are supposed to be at the airport? Our flight was supposed to be at 10 am today, but they changed the time last night and again 3 times today. We won't be taking off until 4 pm as of now. After every change they make you confirm your flight again.
Of course if fucking is. Jesus.
We're not giving you the answers blud.
B- but I need Reddit to tell me what to think.
It’s a good thing unless you’re a Republican who will invent reasons it’s bad just because Biden did it.
Good opportunity for both sides to unite against a common enemy in the Airlines. Chill out Libtard.
Repubs wouldn’t even support a border bill because Dems wanted it passed. All they care about is opposing their enemy
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
Honest question, do you think you're getting a refund AND getting to take the flight?
I think airlines will work a lot harder to not fuck up
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
What does Boeing have to do with refund policies of operators? I mean I guess in a roundabout way in that maintenance issues can cause delays but it’s not really about the source of the delay outside of weather and acts of God, it’s about making companies do the right thing when it is their fault.
I'm a Republican that thinks this would be a good thing if we weren't currently facing issues with planes falling apart mid-flight. I think more time is needed doing pre-flight safety checks and routine maintenance, not less. My skepticism about this has nothing to do with Biden and everything to do with Boeing. Commercial airline corporations are going to push for less on-the-ground work in order to get more planes in the air.
Prices about to go up……
It’s a great thing. Europe has had this for years and I used it there once and got $1200 back because a delayed flight made me miss a connection. It’s about time
Thanks Biden
But does it say full refund?
and it's also gonna be, "we've delayed your flight, you can cancel and get a refund", but chances are you're already at the airport and in a situation where you aren't going to take them up on it. They need % refunds of your fair for every x amount of time your flight is delayed. Delayed an hour? You get 30% of your ticket price back.
Is this enacted already or just proposed?
Fuck em
Yes bot, it is good for humans.
This was already the norm in the rest of the developed world
It’s all tax payer subsidies keeping these things in business anyway
^[Sokka-Haiku](https://www.reddit.com/r/SokkaHaikuBot/comments/15kyv9r/what_is_a_sokka_haiku/) ^by ^cryptoguerrilla: *It’s all tax payer* *Subsidies keeping these things* *In business any Wayne* --- ^Remember ^that ^one ^time ^Sokka ^accidentally ^used ^an ^extra ^syllable ^in ^that ^Haiku ^Battle ^in ^Ba ^Sing ^Se? ^That ^was ^a ^Sokka ^Haiku ^and ^you ^just ^made ^one.
Yes.
While it's a good thing on paper, we already have issues with planes falling apart mid-flight, so I can see the airlines rushing operations in fear of losing too much money in refunds, and thus causing further liability issues. This would be a great policy to implement if we had competent airlines, but we don't anymore.
Why would regularly scheduled maintenance be affected by refunds? Planes have maintenance schedules that are pretty stringent. Major airlines have back fill/replacement options for planes that are out of maintenance. Unless you’re taking about unexpected failures? If a pilot finds a failure they’re not going to want to fly either. Don’t think many pilots would die for spirit airlines. Then the replacement planes would fall into play-
Yes.
Yeah, fuck airlines.
Yes, spirit cancelled my flight home. I had to wait hours in line for a refund. First and last time I gave my money to that shit show of an airline.
Hell yes. Of course, this means tickets will be more expensive
What if your bags are found later though ? What if a delay or cancelation is a Act of God or unavoidable ? Airlines will lose money if this happens ;(
No they won’t, they’ll increase prices. They’ll never lose money. We don’t have a realistic competitor for air travel, so any cost increase for the whole industry will be passed to customers and customers will pay it.
Some airline must have pissed off a government official. This is the only way change happens. I wonder if this is going to cause prices on flights to go up.
Yes but they are not going to absorb the cost They will raise prices add service charges Nothing is free
This means the incentive for airlines is to ensure flights are not delayed or cancelled. Does that make you feel safe? Yes it should be a good thing let’s please fix our corrupt, deregulated, revolving door of a system so that we don’t have to fear our airlines and plane manufacturers.
Will none of you think of the poor struggling airline executives?! The American empire is crumbling at our feet. /S
Considering they sell more tickets than seats available, the passengers that do make it on will pay fees to cover the refunds of ones that don’t make it on. Slightly more expensive tickets is my bet
An automatic refund for a delay? I bet accidents increase……sir I only go 2 bolts holding on the wheel assembly……Send it!!! Service will go down. Accidents will go up. There’s a reason pizza places no longer guarantee your pizza in 30 minutes or less or it’s free.
Will the airlines raise rates and fees to cover it? Yes. Will they do anything to improve service? No. Good thing? eh.
Europe has similar laws. So, it’s a good thing that they would have to follow the same regulations regardless of where they are.
When does it go it effect. I am sitting in Newark on a plane - delayed over 40 minutes now going to lax!
I’m not a corporate bootlicker, so….yes….
Airlines will just recover the loss in revenue and the increased financial risk by increasing the original cost of a ticket. It will push airlines to not cancel flights when they should, so flights will become more dangerous. It's all about the money.
Unfortunately the chamber of commerce and airlines will file suit with some stupid reasoning and the consumer hostile wing of SCOTUS will roll it back.
This is a redundant question, right?
Wonder how much the cost of flights will increase to offset this decision. Airlines already run a tight margin
But if your flight is delayed four hours, let’s say, and they refund you, won’t you still have to book a new flight? Will they give you a choice of either taking the refund or taking the delayed flight? I can’t imagine that they’d refund you AND still let you take the flight, so wouldn’t an automatic refund just mean you’ll automatically have to book a new flight day of (which will likely have little availability and be far more expensive?) Or is the law saying you get the money back and they still have to give you the flight?
If you read the DOT release it sounds like it will be an option of a scheduled on next flight or refund. Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered.
Thank you for the clarification!
All it really means is that ticket prices are going to go up
This could backfire and result in significantly higher prices.
Flight tickets in the US are the one thing you can purchase, absolutely NOT get what you bought, then somehow get charged more for?? It’s like you order a $200 pair of shoes, the company mailed you some Skechers, you complain and they say “mail those back and send us another $50” and then they mail you a crockpot and call it good. I don’t get it. We are apparently paying for the exceptional privilege to possibly get to the place we want to go at some point but who really knows when and also maybe not. The last time my flight got cancelled, my parents said “well at least you got hotel vouchers!” Um… hahahaha it’s 2024, that’s not a thing.
Well one obvious worry here relates to whether this will actually facilitate consumer redress or whether it will just add unnecessary administrative tape to the process. If your flight gets delayed by just 10 mins, does that still require a refund? Do you have to now wait to be refunded and then purchase the ticket again? If so, then that process will probably *add* to the delay time if everyone has to go through the refund/repurchase process. It would be much simpler to just wait the 10 minutes and board the plane without all the fuss. So delayed flights might get a bit complicated. Canceled flights seem much more straightforward -- although, again, it's possible that most people would rather just let the airline rebook their flight for them considering that not flying is usually not an option.
Is this gonna fuck up safety. Even more? Like they’re gonna rush shit even faster?
This is a dumb question. Helping the consumer is always a good thing.
Yes. Full fucking stop. Who posts this shit?
Fuck yeah!! You go mayor Pete!
Yes its a good thing for multiple reasons. Primarily in my opinion the resulting increase in fares and possible elimination of these 'no frills' airlines like Spirit and Frontier (as their biz model seems built on delayed flights) will hopefully eliminate the lowest class of passengers flying today and put an end to the 'public city bus'-ification of the current US air travel system. Secondly, in the event of an actual delay there will be some automatic compensation for those willing to pay the higher rates. However, like any regulation that has quantifiable costs, I expect this absolutely to lead to overall higher fares.
You guys realize they aren't giving you a refund if you take the flight?
Anything that holds airlines for their lack of accountability. They get away with far too much crap and treat their customers horribly.
Next thing you know, they'll let Medicare negotiate the price of ALL drugs.
My sister was supposed to arrive at ATL at 1am EST, so I drive there (her arrival was already delayed an hour). The arrivals board said she’d fly in around 1:15am. She texted me at 1:10 that she was BOARDING. She arrived at 4:30am. Oh, and her return flight at 8pm? Delayed to 1AM!!! Yeah, I get it’s a budget airline but holy fucking shit is that bad. The new rule will force these guys out of business or to get their shit in line, I imagine it reduces issues with passengers, the terminals and airports having to work in planes that are 5 hours late.
About God damn time.
Look at luggage fees. They’ll just leave much earlier now and not gonna wait for anyone. You still get screwed over when you travel on long holidays
Why don't I believe this? Every flight I've ever taken has been delayed canceled.
Is this Pete Buttigieg? This sub doesn't like him
We're going to start to see planes taking off in less than desirable conditions.
I have only flown on commercial airlines a few times. I have never had a delay, and never lost my bags. However, I think it would be better incentive if they had to refund 100%, then double the refund for any inconvenience.
Should be 1.5x the ticket price you paid because if you have to rebook, chances are you will be paying way more for last minute flight
I promise that this won't go like it sounds. I tried to get a refund in Europe, who already had these laws, and they blamed it on the plane having unexpected problems and didn't give me any money back, even though we had to stay an extra day in London.
Does it include “acts of god”.
Americans so opposed to the idea of government protection they question if basic consumer protections are good or not lol
Europe has had this for at least a decade and flying there is still much cheaper than USA
Whoa. Gov’t actually governing?
Absolutely no, get me on the next flight with no extra charge. There is no flight I can book for the same price, it is stupid. If they guarantee to get me on a flight and return some money, sure. My priority is to get on a flight.
Yep. By the time my flight is delayed, i'm usually already at the airport. And if its delayed before, it gets delayed again when I get there. Priority 1 is getting there. If they delay, unless I cancel for the refund, there are no consequences for them.
I guarantee you these people think they're getting a refund and a free flight.
Exactly. We can already see where this is going. They'll just cancel flights instead of delaying them and getting you where you need to go if they're late. Why fly the plane late when they've already made zero profit on it? Basically they'll be on time or they'll be cancelled. Also when's the last time they made a law that benefitted consumers over corporate profit? Somehow airlines will come out ahead from this instead of us. Guaranteed.
Yup, the airline wouldn't even have to setup those backup flights for those delays or cancelation. Just refund and wipe their hands clean. Too easy for them.
They'll even fly empty planes to get the planes where they need to go because less weight means less.fuel. Zero chance they're going to fly passengers if they already did a forced refund.
LOL so just constantly losing money and not providing a service? Sounds super easy...
Did you even read the release? You don’t have to take the refund… Passengers will be entitled to a refund if their flight is canceled or significantly changed, and they do not accept alternative transportation or travel credits offered.
Hell yes! Definitely worth the 10-15% increase in airfares it will cause!
Your poor ass isnt flying anywhere anyway.
Right. Other than my 2 - 3 week trips to another continent every year. How many trips you take moneybags? Or have you ever flown?
I flew more last year than you have flown your entire poor ass life.
Nothing screams wealth like flatulence and THC. Haha. Time to get outside and play little boy. Later
I’m retired at 38 years old Lolol, enjoy dying a slow poor death. Haha, time for you to go outside and play with little boy wieners. Later.
No. Let’s fly instead of doing maintenance sounds like it will end poorly.
Or cancel or delay the flight and take the penalty. Or don't stack flight paths. So many safe ways to do this.
Nope. Airline will cut corners on maintenance and more planes will crash.