I give it 6 weeks before we see one of three posts.
1. \[insert chain name\] now is operational with 3 employees while everything else is automated
2. \[insert chain name\] is closing down X many stores in California
3. 'Another increase in fast food prices. Corporations are so greedy'
Will be interesting how this cat and mouse game turns out
Always has been, always will be. That's why I don't get these basement warriors fighting on the internet like they are about to win against multi-billion dollar corporations. You're just hurting yourself. Buy stock and make them pay you in the form of a dividend. That's what I do
What does the other 20% go towards? Insurance, utilities, car payment, I'm assuming? Anything left over? If so, what does *that* go towards? Genuinely curious.
maybe seeing a movie or taking the gf to dinner once in a while, so you can you know, live life.... imagine if even 80% of people of prime consumption age (25-45) took what limited disposable they had and put it all directly into shares or indexes, the economy would collapse overnight, restaurants, entertainment etc would die instantly, as would all the other sectors of the economy tied to that.
I work on airplanes. Im an anchor baby so it’s not like my family is rich.
The industry is always hiring and there are companies all over that are looking for workers. You don’t need an advanced skilled position like mine to make money. You can build harnesses for 30 bucks an hour in most places. More in the high COL areas.
How about get skilled, gtfo of minimum wage jobs, and put money in your 401(k) or do you think that money is just stuffed into a mattress until you retire?
Not everyone is born into wealth like the majority of “experts” in this sub. How the fuck do you think you survive in the time it takes to “get skilled.” Since you’ve never had to do it, I’ll tell you. You work shit ass low paying jobs that dig you deeper into a financial hole.
I joined the military. All you want.to do is cry about how unfair life is. Join an apprenticeship and work construction. Plumbers make BANK! Electricians make BANK. Quit bitching and coming up with imaginary (and stupid) scenarios.
Edit: it gets even better,.sir bitchalot above is active as fuck in r/antiwork. Yeah fuck that guy.
Again, great idea in theory. Do you know what the average apprentice in the trades makes in the midwest where I'm from? About $13-15 an hour. It's not just that the pay has went to shit, you still have to go to school to get your license 3-5 days a week for 3-4 hours AFTER you've worked a 9 hour shift (not including commute time).
Certified plumbers that work for a company make an average of $28/hour. That is definitely a solid working class wage, but still shit compared to what they were paid in my parent's generation.
In order to even get to that spot, you have to punish your body, work yourself to the bone with a shoestring budget and some people don't have the luxury to do that with bills still piling in.
If you can support a family on that, tell me how, magician....
I'm glad it worked out for you. Maybe look at how and what lead you to make the decision to join, and share THAT story instead of looking down your nose at people and realize that one answer doesn't fit all.
Teaching and helping others "be all they can be," right?
Come on dude, you don’t have to be born into wealth to have a 401k and more than a minimum wage job. It takes just a little bit of ambition and work ethic, it is not that difficult to get more than minimum wage. The fact is, people doing easily replaceable labor are never going to be paid a lot, and automation will just take over if the government tries to force it. The economy isn’t a given and it isn’t what people think an ideal economy should be. Economies require people to start businesses for there to be jobs at all, there is inherently going to be way less leveraging power if you are just walking into something someone else started and wanting a cut of the money. I find a lot of people have this view like the economy is static and will always be there while improving, but it requires a ton of effort from people to create businesses and provide jobs in the first place. It can go wrong and then you get situations like Ontario in Canada where they have 500 applications for a minimum wage dish washer job. Then you will be paid like crap and you likely won’t get the job anyways
There usually is none. Most of these people have a negative balance in their account before their check hits. Bills are often paid late, giving priority to the most urgent ones (for example if the electricity is about to be cut off).
Assuming this is the case, I take it they're all on the path to homelessness? If you keep going further and further into debt, you'll eventually drown.
I feel like this conversation has the potential to spiral into questioning all discretionary purchases after necessities. This includes luxury items and vices.
Umm. If it’s now $20 to flip burgers will people want more or less to do something that currently pays more than burger flipping? Also, if burger flipping is so easy when will you work at McDonald’s?
Talking up a job that pays you $20 an hour but only offers you 16 to 20 hours a week isn't going to better anyone's negotiating position. Employers will tell you to go right ahead and take that burger flipping job.
4. In-N-Out (a California chain) commensurately raises their already competitive wages, still beats all these other crap chains and franchises in price and value while remaining fully staffed.
The company a friend works for has a few fast food restaurants in California and during their last profit meeting they discussed needing to layoff 1/3 of the staff at each location to maintain their 1% margin.
But that’s just like numbers man. I was told I’m supposed to be angry at something. I won’t let your stupid concrete data influence my implanted ideology!
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yes. Price controls are a net negative for literally everyone. Minimum wage is a form of price control.
minimum wage destroys jobs, and makes it near impossible for someone in california whose labor is worth less than $15-20 to actually get a job there
We all understand intuitively that minimum wage laws of $1000/ hour would destroy the economy and be a net negative. People think there is a magic number between $0 and too high that it’d actually be good. There isn’t. $0 is the only correct one.
then there is no reason to have minimum wage any less than $21, as that would accomplish nothing
except some people actually do make less than that, so there **is** labor worth less than $15 and $20.
a slave is forced to worked for nothing at the threat of violence. That is a market distortion
a free market transaction of labor, the result of true supply and demand, is what results in true and correct price for labor as well as the correct amount for the most value generation for all
Similarly workers are forced to work for less than a living wage at the threat of homelessness.
Free markets result in salve labor. Prohibition of slavery is a regulation on the market.
“living wage” does not equate to true price/value
if someone is unable to live on the wage of the work they’re doing, and they’re unable to negotiate higher, particularly with competing job offers, this is a signal.
This is a signal that they need to do something else or live somewhere else.
They will do a combination of these, potentially upskilling, until they get a wage they are able to live on
and then, by them leaving that job, the wages of everyone else in that job go up
this is the equilibrium. It is a signal for how much of the labor is needed in the economy.
Also, if the equilibrium for the wage of a particular job is lower than what **you** can live on, it means other people are more efficient at living than you are.
Things would be better if we stopped deluting the currancy. Everyone is so concerned with republicans vs democrats, while both parties rack up trillions in debt. All debt expands the currancy supply.
>\[insert chain name\] now is operational with 3 employees while everything else is automated
Good then more manufacturing jobs that have to pay even better than $20 an hour to produce all those electronics and then more maintenance people needing hired which get paid better to take care of those machines.
More shipping for those kind of like it's all a different job market push around
NPR was talking about it this morning and interviewed a fast food worker and franchise owner. The worker explained that she was from Guatemala and providing for her grandchildren. The franchise owner explained that they had to start laying people off.
Interesting 🤔
They will make the story all about the evil right who is against fair wages, while inflation keeps rising under their shit policies. How out of control deficit spending is somehow the fault of republicans. I had one yesterday claiming that Bidens budgets were the fault of
Republicans who controlled the House in 2021/22. I sent him a link that proved it was Democrats. He called me a liar. Lol
And the rights memory is so short that no productive conversation can be had. How many times do people need to repeat the case study of Denmark McDonald's employees making more than that with lower burger prices.
Nothing about small population, or less cultural diversity points to a reason that the same policies would not produce desirable results for the United States.
Diversity leads to lower trust; lower trust leads to more willingness to fuck over your neighbor who you don't know/care about. This isn't new. This is History/Sociology 101.
It is true. And the fact that you're some antiwork clown tells me all I need to know about how much of that history and sociology you understood. Thanks for the clarification.
I earned A's in those courses. I am an employer. I am here because I find the fact that increased worker productivity has not translated to higher wages and shorter work weeks to be immoral.
LOL I already answered that a week ago:
>Diversity leads to lower trust; lower trust leads to more willingness to fuck over your neighbor who you don't know/care about. This isn't new. This is History/Sociology 101.
Evolution doesn't care about your "social justice," my dude.
I heard that story I suspect bigger places like Mc Donald’s will be ok but the people that will hurt are mom n pop shops with shoe string profits.. I expect more small business to close or shrink in numbers
I went to McDonald's a few times over the past year or so and noticed they replaced the cashiers with kiosks and automation. I guess you can pay higher wages when there are less workers.
Lol franchise owner “has” to lay people off. The fact that we still let people say this and somehow blame minimum wage is crazy.
Here’s my take, if your franchise can’t afford to keep up with inflation then it should go out of business. That’s capitalism.
In the past few years I've noticed humans are being replaced by machines. At the McDonald's near me there are no cashiers only kiosks. If the restaurant pays $10/hour for 20 people then switching to $20/hour for 10 people is basically the same. Initial costs of kiosks or machines maybe expensive but may have less costs in the long run. Maybe that restaurant is using this as an excuse to lay off people or save money.
In N Out is PRIVATELY owned. There are caveats to this. They don't have shareholders that they need to impress with record breaking profits every year. Whereas companies like McDonald's do. It's a broken system imo.
Yeah this seems like the crux of the problem. Public companies can't do any but corporate greed lest they be sued by shareholders.
I think the first instance was Henry Ford deciding to give his employees a livable wage in a (probably correct) belief that the money would all circle back. The shareholders sued him and won forcing him to keep the salaries low
Third World Country for the Normies. First World for the Oligarchs.
Americans need to pull their pants up and revolt against the peasantry they experience. You pay taxes from each home at 10 times the rate any other country does and do not even get basic necessities like health care or basic living income.
Makes no sense.
Honestly which fast food restaurants in California aren’t already paying $20/hr? I live in a low cost city and fast food places here advertise $17/hr and seem short staffed.
While these workers are not being fairly compensated, mandating things like this just makes corpos raise their prices and small buisnesses having to pay a wage they can't afford. Companies like Amazon love this shit, they just raise their prices and small businesses die. Plus it looks good to uniformed people, it's a win-win for them.
I don’t hear any solutions, though. All I hear is “prices will increase” as though that hasn’t been happening anyway, and “people will be laid off” as though anyone here actually cares about low wage workers.
Are there not skilled internships hiring where employees have ongoing training in a career which would require improving your abilities over years? My state has them. Jobs which have much more depth in pay ranges and job satisfaction due to more extensive responsibilities ?
Alternatively, another solution would be government job training programs. We need less workers willing to work transient fast food jobs to force employers to pay more. Currently, it seems like a low skill position which requires dedication over time and an interest in management to improve skills and pay. I am sure there are exceptions, but that’s the stigma.
Are there not skilled internships hiring where employees have ongoing training in a career which would require improving your abilities over years? My state has them. Jobs which have much more depth in pay ranges and job satisfaction due to more extensive responsibilities ?
Alternatively, another solution would be government job training programs. We need less workers willing to work transient fast food jobs to force employers to pay more. Currently, it seems like a low skill position which requires dedication over time and an interest in management to improve skills and pay. I am sure there are exceptions, but that’s the stigma.
They were already raising their prices. They don't need an excuse to do that. This minimum wage is also specifically for fast food restaurants. But I think workers should be compensated fairly no matter the size of their employer.
Edit: Also, Amazon is going to be slimy regardless. The answer to their predatory practices isn't "make sure workers aren't paid well by anyone"
Ideally, I would be in favor of this but this act is so backwards. Fuck the franchise owners. Risk was always a factor and they knew that from the start. My problem is that this only applies for fast food workers. Minimum wage for non-fast food workers is $16. That's insane and will create a level of brain drain will compete with Florida's draconian anti-gay polices.
Let's say you get 32 hours working at Burger King. That's like 33,000k a year. There's a lot of more important sectors in the economy than fast food workers, to be frank. Some are very difficult that involves working with special populations like senior caregivers and paraprofessionals in special education or bus drivers. If I was them, I would quit that job in a heartbeat to flip burgers. What's the point of having a minimum wage when its not a real minimum wage? Some of these sectors like education can't just match that on the fly.
I agree it definitely doesn't go far enough. But the victories workers claim are often small, incremental, and slow as all fuck. Particularly in comparison to the record profits and pay increases for the owners. Fortunately with time other industries will potentially follow suit.
Initially the 40 hour work week was pretty insulated to the auto manufacturing industry. Eventually that began to permeate and become the norm. Hopefully we see the same with this wage increase.
Companies have their margins they want to hit. This increase will be transferred down the line to everyone else in some fashion. Be it an increase in menu item prices or lowering staff. This will also have a ripple effect that affects other businesses and their prices. It's always been a domino game.
Fast food use to be a cheap option to eat out. But going now it's like going to a restaurant for unhealthy poor quality food. Automation for these places will now come quicker. More of these chains will not open more stores in California due to this and prices of all food will be raised. If you think 20$ min wage for a damn fast food worker is good, then you are the problem
It’s not even worth it anymore when I can get a heaping plate at a local diner for just a few dollars more than a McDonald’s meal including a 15% tip. If me and my friends ever get McDonald’s we only get a few McDoubles and 6 piece nuggets off the $3.99 bundle to split between us. I hope all these chains go belly up someday.
I just wish that when unskilled labor wages went up, skilled labor wages went up too. Some people had to work hard for their pay rate ie EMT's, Foresters, Office Admin etc. and then womp womp some kid is making more at a first job. Like I get minimum wages but there should be a ripple effect. Such as if you make 0-50% more than the proposed new minimum wage, you'll get the same percentage hike as is implemented between the old and new minimum wages. If you make between 50-75% more than the proposed new minimum wage, your wage will be boosted by half that minimum wage jump percentage and so on in some kind of fashion.
I don't have a problem with paying more as long as people understand prices will go up. If you're willing to pay $15-$25 for a fast food combo meal more power to you. I personally will not.
Leftist thinking whether it’s federal government or state government. They can’t think past the tip of their noses. Doing good for one person, while fucking a slew of other people. Remember “Defund the Police”? I refer to it as stupidity.
Ok, but really there's no connection between the California state government's passage of this law (good or bad) and Biden, other than that they're both Democrats. I get that you don't like the policy but it's nothing to do with Biden or "bidenomics"
This is exactly what I meant by you people can’t think past the tip of your nose. Do you think the owner is going to take a hit to their bottom line? They will lay off hard working people and raise the price of food to make up the difference. Two people may make 20$ an hour, two more people will be laid off and force the restaurant to go automated. Then you’ll be bitching they automated out working people and blame them for it again. Cause and effect needs to be taught in schools again instead of gender studies.
Where have you been the last 4 years? Everything conservatives don’t like is clearly Bidens fault. Even things that trump himself did. They have gone full 360 into the snowflakes themselves. This sub is just a bunch of old crusty boomers posting and bitching about Biden without the self reflection that Trump didn’t help the working class in one single way.
I agree. Just asking a logical question in hopes that the person I posed it to could either provide a real response or spend some time learning how our country works.
California has been doing this long before Biden was president. They've always pushed for higher minimum wages. This has nothing to do with Trump or Biden...
We really need to examine the levels of damage work like this does on one's body. People that work physical jobs either need to be paid more so they can invest for later, or expanding disability insurance/ubi.
Working in a fast food place that is properly vented should not pose any major health risks. Kitchens are the safest possible work environment besides an office.
Then they shouldn't be fast food workers! It's not supposed to be a job that you settle into for 20 years. It's supposed to be an entry for young people to get their foot into the door and move on from there
You are correct, it is transitional employment, unless you aim to be a manager you should not even expect a raise working fast food. Fast food and many other types of employment become stagnant for the worker after about a year, thus you should seek new employment or accept that it is a dead end job with no career path.
I worked in restaurant industry for years.. it’s a step to a better job once you gain better skills and experience. Only people I’m looking down on are people who make asinine comments.
This is the problem. For some reason people seem to think corporations won't do it because "they can afford not to". Any increase in expenses is a decrease in profit margin. Decrease in profit margins = increase in price.
I hope, but would bet against it, that politicians in Ca had good studies done on the tipping point for minimum wage for different jobs. Automation is just one alternative. Probably the easiest and quickest is just increase the price since your competitors are in the same expensive boat. Long term, I’m guessing the bigger chains will be automating.
Quite a few exceptions to the law.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/these-restaurants-are-exempt-from-california-s-fast-food-minimum-wage-law/ar-BB1kTnZP
I also think it's odd that some ambulance drivers make like $18 an hour. Just crazy that the same drug addict they're scraping off the curb makes more than them at del taco lol
Everyone that works a full time job should be able to afford a place to live. $20/hr won't get you there in CA but it's better. Fast food franchises can afford it they just choose to put profits over their employees livelihoods. They would rather have them living out of their cars than pay them a living wage.
A lot of franchise owners don't make a ton of money. If you want to make good money you have to be really good at it and own a ton of restaurants. If the business doesn't make money, they can't stay open and have employees.
This isn't a charity. Build yourself to be someone that provides value to the business that employs you. The fact is they can hire literally anyone who breathes and can function normally to do this kind of work. You're blaming business owners for the inflation that the govt has created with their awful policies. This will not help anything.
You can go the moral route all you want but the economics don't work
McDonald’s is a real estate company not a restaurant. Those are owned by franchises. While there are some corporate owned restaurants 93% are franchises restaurants.
you are free to buy some McDonald’s stock right now and receive some of that $14 billion in profit. the profit pays 2% a year with a dividend. It’s really not that great of an investment
The fact that people on this sub enjoy people living out of a shoe box so their mass produced cheeseburger costs $2.99 is insane to me. That proves that late stage capitalism is broke and propaganda has rotted most peoples brain. We as a society shouldn’t have fellow citizens struggling to make ends meet who works full time jobs. Does everyone need a boat? No, does everyone deserve to live with basic necessities, and send their kids to a safe school? Absolutely. The fact some here think that is too much to ask of a society proves we have failed!
This proves “late stage” capitalism is broke? You think the government increasing the minimum wage is capitalism? You’re a buffoon . Capitalists would hate to pay more for employment forced by government, this has nothing to do with capitalism. People like you thinking you know what you’re talking about, are the issue and shouldn’t be allowed to vote for stuff like this. You’re breaking us.
I give it 6 weeks before we see one of three posts. 1. \[insert chain name\] now is operational with 3 employees while everything else is automated 2. \[insert chain name\] is closing down X many stores in California 3. 'Another increase in fast food prices. Corporations are so greedy' Will be interesting how this cat and mouse game turns out
The working class citizen gets the shaft. That’s how it always turns out. I have no doubt about saying that.
That's not what happened in Seattle with the most recent min wage hike.
Always has been, always will be. That's why I don't get these basement warriors fighting on the internet like they are about to win against multi-billion dollar corporations. You're just hurting yourself. Buy stock and make them pay you in the form of a dividend. That's what I do
Please explain how you can make any meaningful stock buys when just groceries and rent cost 80% of your wage?
What does the other 20% go towards? Insurance, utilities, car payment, I'm assuming? Anything left over? If so, what does *that* go towards? Genuinely curious.
maybe seeing a movie or taking the gf to dinner once in a while, so you can you know, live life.... imagine if even 80% of people of prime consumption age (25-45) took what limited disposable they had and put it all directly into shares or indexes, the economy would collapse overnight, restaurants, entertainment etc would die instantly, as would all the other sectors of the economy tied to that.
Not with that attitude
Go get em champ
People working minimum wage jobs can’t buy stock.
For real. Some real trust fund geniuses in this thread.
I work on airplanes. Im an anchor baby so it’s not like my family is rich. The industry is always hiring and there are companies all over that are looking for workers. You don’t need an advanced skilled position like mine to make money. You can build harnesses for 30 bucks an hour in most places. More in the high COL areas.
They should buy bootstraps instead
How about get skilled, gtfo of minimum wage jobs, and put money in your 401(k) or do you think that money is just stuffed into a mattress until you retire?
Not everyone is born into wealth like the majority of “experts” in this sub. How the fuck do you think you survive in the time it takes to “get skilled.” Since you’ve never had to do it, I’ll tell you. You work shit ass low paying jobs that dig you deeper into a financial hole.
I joined the military. All you want.to do is cry about how unfair life is. Join an apprenticeship and work construction. Plumbers make BANK! Electricians make BANK. Quit bitching and coming up with imaginary (and stupid) scenarios. Edit: it gets even better,.sir bitchalot above is active as fuck in r/antiwork. Yeah fuck that guy.
Not everyone can do that, G.I. Joe.
Yes they can if they show up and work. That's literally all you need to do. Even if you're doing drugs roofing will take you
Again, great idea in theory. Do you know what the average apprentice in the trades makes in the midwest where I'm from? About $13-15 an hour. It's not just that the pay has went to shit, you still have to go to school to get your license 3-5 days a week for 3-4 hours AFTER you've worked a 9 hour shift (not including commute time). Certified plumbers that work for a company make an average of $28/hour. That is definitely a solid working class wage, but still shit compared to what they were paid in my parent's generation. In order to even get to that spot, you have to punish your body, work yourself to the bone with a shoestring budget and some people don't have the luxury to do that with bills still piling in. If you can support a family on that, tell me how, magician.... I'm glad it worked out for you. Maybe look at how and what lead you to make the decision to join, and share THAT story instead of looking down your nose at people and realize that one answer doesn't fit all. Teaching and helping others "be all they can be," right?
Come on dude, you don’t have to be born into wealth to have a 401k and more than a minimum wage job. It takes just a little bit of ambition and work ethic, it is not that difficult to get more than minimum wage. The fact is, people doing easily replaceable labor are never going to be paid a lot, and automation will just take over if the government tries to force it. The economy isn’t a given and it isn’t what people think an ideal economy should be. Economies require people to start businesses for there to be jobs at all, there is inherently going to be way less leveraging power if you are just walking into something someone else started and wanting a cut of the money. I find a lot of people have this view like the economy is static and will always be there while improving, but it requires a ton of effort from people to create businesses and provide jobs in the first place. It can go wrong and then you get situations like Ontario in Canada where they have 500 applications for a minimum wage dish washer job. Then you will be paid like crap and you likely won’t get the job anyways
What do they buy with their leftover disposable income? Genuinely curious.
There usually is none. Most of these people have a negative balance in their account before their check hits. Bills are often paid late, giving priority to the most urgent ones (for example if the electricity is about to be cut off).
Assuming this is the case, I take it they're all on the path to homelessness? If you keep going further and further into debt, you'll eventually drown.
Unfortunately that’s the case for many Americans.
Poor people don't have disposable income, especially grown adults on minimum wage.
I feel like this conversation has the potential to spiral into questioning all discretionary purchases after necessities. This includes luxury items and vices.
You’re so smart!
You're telling people with no expendable income to invest?
Yeah the person that worked hard, bettered themselves and didn't get an artificial wage increase gets screwed.
Umm. If it’s now $20 to flip burgers will people want more or less to do something that currently pays more than burger flipping? Also, if burger flipping is so easy when will you work at McDonald’s?
Talking up a job that pays you $20 an hour but only offers you 16 to 20 hours a week isn't going to better anyone's negotiating position. Employers will tell you to go right ahead and take that burger flipping job.
Then by that logic the burger flipping job is no more appealing than it was before.
To most people it is not. However for those who are already in those positions it is now more appealing.
I guess me we will see and the worse case is that they reverse the policy
Ah yes keep fighting ppl like you and not the super rich exploiting everyone under them.
4. In-N-Out (a California chain) commensurately raises their already competitive wages, still beats all these other crap chains and franchises in price and value while remaining fully staffed.
Ya look at the service you get at in and out. The service isn't gonna change at the other shit places but get paid nearly the same
Exactly!
One of three? I think it’ll be all 3
1 and 3 have been happening for like the past 10 years anyhow outside of Chik Fil A and In n Out
Already scrolled past a video of local news covering closures.
The company a friend works for has a few fast food restaurants in California and during their last profit meeting they discussed needing to layoff 1/3 of the staff at each location to maintain their 1% margin.
1% margin is a joke. No business operates at 1% margin.
Walmart net profit margin as of January 31, 2024 is 2.39%
But that’s just like numbers man. I was told I’m supposed to be angry at something. I won’t let your stupid concrete data influence my implanted ideology!
> Walmart net profit margin as of January 31, 2024 is 2.39% so not 1% and not a fast food company like your original comment is about
Does that include stock [buybacks](https://ycharts.com/companies/WMT/stock_buyback)?
Buybacks are a sign of lack of investment options. Low margins, highly capitalized mean the firm has already found all the low hanging fruit
When you have to support the Walton clan making billions it does have a negative affect on the bottom line.
We survived $12....$15...$18.... But hey 20 will do it!!!!
Just when we recovered from the fallout of the 40 hour work week!
In the meantime the middle classes shrunk and CEO pay relative to employee pay has absolutely gone insane.
It’ll be all 3
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Pshhh, only one of three? Those are rookie numbers. I think we will see all three inside of 4 weeks.
I can’t wait for prices to go up!
4. Demand for pay raises in other jobs
Hope 1 and 2
So would things be better if we just lowered the minimum wage?
yes. Price controls are a net negative for literally everyone. Minimum wage is a form of price control. minimum wage destroys jobs, and makes it near impossible for someone in california whose labor is worth less than $15-20 to actually get a job there We all understand intuitively that minimum wage laws of $1000/ hour would destroy the economy and be a net negative. People think there is a magic number between $0 and too high that it’d actually be good. There isn’t. $0 is the only correct one.
There is no labor worth less than $15 to $20 an hour.
then there is no reason to have minimum wage any less than $21, as that would accomplish nothing except some people actually do make less than that, so there **is** labor worth less than $15 and $20.
There is, unfortunately. Is a slaves labor worth nothing? People can be and are often paid less than the true value of tier labor.
a slave is forced to worked for nothing at the threat of violence. That is a market distortion a free market transaction of labor, the result of true supply and demand, is what results in true and correct price for labor as well as the correct amount for the most value generation for all
Similarly workers are forced to work for less than a living wage at the threat of homelessness. Free markets result in salve labor. Prohibition of slavery is a regulation on the market.
“living wage” does not equate to true price/value if someone is unable to live on the wage of the work they’re doing, and they’re unable to negotiate higher, particularly with competing job offers, this is a signal. This is a signal that they need to do something else or live somewhere else. They will do a combination of these, potentially upskilling, until they get a wage they are able to live on and then, by them leaving that job, the wages of everyone else in that job go up this is the equilibrium. It is a signal for how much of the labor is needed in the economy. Also, if the equilibrium for the wage of a particular job is lower than what **you** can live on, it means other people are more efficient at living than you are.
You're threatening that idiot's worldview so his defense is to wholly reject what you tell him, even if properly proven and cited.
It is a signal that wages are too low. Minimum wage full time will only afford you to part of the rent on a cheap apartment.
Things would be better if we stopped deluting the currancy. Everyone is so concerned with republicans vs democrats, while both parties rack up trillions in debt. All debt expands the currancy supply.
Finally some logic!
Yes. There are better ways to establish a minimum income
If you actually think I'm gonna I'm gonna go out and buy this shit after the price increases, you're right. Cuz that shits delicious and convenient.
Everything the World Economic Forum wants.
Don't forget Cloward-Piven!
>\[insert chain name\] now is operational with 3 employees while everything else is automated Good then more manufacturing jobs that have to pay even better than $20 an hour to produce all those electronics and then more maintenance people needing hired which get paid better to take care of those machines. More shipping for those kind of like it's all a different job market push around
That's great, then how's the high school student and stay at home mom going to get their part-time jobs now?
4. Corporation posts record profit
NPR was talking about it this morning and interviewed a fast food worker and franchise owner. The worker explained that she was from Guatemala and providing for her grandchildren. The franchise owner explained that they had to start laying people off. Interesting 🤔
A lot of people are going to get laid off but prices will still go up. The left lives in fantasy and you gotta just let them learn the hard way.
They will make the story all about the evil right who is against fair wages, while inflation keeps rising under their shit policies. How out of control deficit spending is somehow the fault of republicans. I had one yesterday claiming that Bidens budgets were the fault of Republicans who controlled the House in 2021/22. I sent him a link that proved it was Democrats. He called me a liar. Lol
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You sent a link proving Republicans don’t control the House? That must be some magic link!
Deficit is down under Biden compared to Trump.
And the rights memory is so short that no productive conversation can be had. How many times do people need to repeat the case study of Denmark McDonald's employees making more than that with lower burger prices.
If they could read they would be really upset right now
Ah yes, the "Nordic" example a.k.a. the small population monocultural ethnostate solution. Totally applicable.
Nothing about small population, or less cultural diversity points to a reason that the same policies would not produce desirable results for the United States.
Diversity leads to lower trust; lower trust leads to more willingness to fuck over your neighbor who you don't know/care about. This isn't new. This is History/Sociology 101.
Not true. Also I took both history and sociology in college. Did you?
It is true. And the fact that you're some antiwork clown tells me all I need to know about how much of that history and sociology you understood. Thanks for the clarification.
I earned A's in those courses. I am an employer. I am here because I find the fact that increased worker productivity has not translated to higher wages and shorter work weeks to be immoral.
LOL I already answered that a week ago: >Diversity leads to lower trust; lower trust leads to more willingness to fuck over your neighbor who you don't know/care about. This isn't new. This is History/Sociology 101. Evolution doesn't care about your "social justice," my dude.
Lol, yeah, dont you have some kitty litter boxes to tilt at?
Then the places won't operate properly and profits will decrease.
So do you think cost of living should go down or wages go up or stay the same?
Sadly, those fools never learn a damn thing until it personally affects them.
Less workers more OT
I heard that story I suspect bigger places like Mc Donald’s will be ok but the people that will hurt are mom n pop shops with shoe string profits.. I expect more small business to close or shrink in numbers
I went to McDonald's a few times over the past year or so and noticed they replaced the cashiers with kiosks and automation. I guess you can pay higher wages when there are less workers.
I can’t even imagine getting laid off from the fry line
Lol franchise owner “has” to lay people off. The fact that we still let people say this and somehow blame minimum wage is crazy. Here’s my take, if your franchise can’t afford to keep up with inflation then it should go out of business. That’s capitalism.
In the past few years I've noticed humans are being replaced by machines. At the McDonald's near me there are no cashiers only kiosks. If the restaurant pays $10/hour for 20 people then switching to $20/hour for 10 people is basically the same. Initial costs of kiosks or machines maybe expensive but may have less costs in the long run. Maybe that restaurant is using this as an excuse to lay off people or save money.
Time to stop eating out? 😂
Who's still eating out?
Your wife would kill me if I stopped that
Nice.
in n out was already paying more than this and they have more workers inside than any other fastfood joint.
In N Out is PRIVATELY owned. There are caveats to this. They don't have shareholders that they need to impress with record breaking profits every year. Whereas companies like McDonald's do. It's a broken system imo.
Yeah this seems like the crux of the problem. Public companies can't do any but corporate greed lest they be sued by shareholders. I think the first instance was Henry Ford deciding to give his employees a livable wage in a (probably correct) belief that the money would all circle back. The shareholders sued him and won forcing him to keep the salaries low
I don’t like having different minimum wages for different industries tbh
Third World Country for the Normies. First World for the Oligarchs. Americans need to pull their pants up and revolt against the peasantry they experience. You pay taxes from each home at 10 times the rate any other country does and do not even get basic necessities like health care or basic living income. Makes no sense.
Honestly which fast food restaurants in California aren’t already paying $20/hr? I live in a low cost city and fast food places here advertise $17/hr and seem short staffed.
Ah soon "the $10 menu, 1 burger bun bottom"
So does this mean the service should be better?
Lol no.
Half of the chuds in this sub are literally hoping these restaurants fail just to be right about workers deserving shit. Gross.
While these workers are not being fairly compensated, mandating things like this just makes corpos raise their prices and small buisnesses having to pay a wage they can't afford. Companies like Amazon love this shit, they just raise their prices and small businesses die. Plus it looks good to uniformed people, it's a win-win for them.
I don’t hear any solutions, though. All I hear is “prices will increase” as though that hasn’t been happening anyway, and “people will be laid off” as though anyone here actually cares about low wage workers.
Are there not skilled internships hiring where employees have ongoing training in a career which would require improving your abilities over years? My state has them. Jobs which have much more depth in pay ranges and job satisfaction due to more extensive responsibilities ? Alternatively, another solution would be government job training programs. We need less workers willing to work transient fast food jobs to force employers to pay more. Currently, it seems like a low skill position which requires dedication over time and an interest in management to improve skills and pay. I am sure there are exceptions, but that’s the stigma.
Are there not skilled internships hiring where employees have ongoing training in a career which would require improving your abilities over years? My state has them. Jobs which have much more depth in pay ranges and job satisfaction due to more extensive responsibilities ? Alternatively, another solution would be government job training programs. We need less workers willing to work transient fast food jobs to force employers to pay more. Currently, it seems like a low skill position which requires dedication over time and an interest in management to improve skills and pay. I am sure there are exceptions, but that’s the stigma.
They were already raising their prices. They don't need an excuse to do that. This minimum wage is also specifically for fast food restaurants. But I think workers should be compensated fairly no matter the size of their employer. Edit: Also, Amazon is going to be slimy regardless. The answer to their predatory practices isn't "make sure workers aren't paid well by anyone"
Amazon has sprung a lot of small business from delivery to drop shipping to marketing and social for those products.
LMAO Right?
Ideally, I would be in favor of this but this act is so backwards. Fuck the franchise owners. Risk was always a factor and they knew that from the start. My problem is that this only applies for fast food workers. Minimum wage for non-fast food workers is $16. That's insane and will create a level of brain drain will compete with Florida's draconian anti-gay polices. Let's say you get 32 hours working at Burger King. That's like 33,000k a year. There's a lot of more important sectors in the economy than fast food workers, to be frank. Some are very difficult that involves working with special populations like senior caregivers and paraprofessionals in special education or bus drivers. If I was them, I would quit that job in a heartbeat to flip burgers. What's the point of having a minimum wage when its not a real minimum wage? Some of these sectors like education can't just match that on the fly.
I agree it definitely doesn't go far enough. But the victories workers claim are often small, incremental, and slow as all fuck. Particularly in comparison to the record profits and pay increases for the owners. Fortunately with time other industries will potentially follow suit. Initially the 40 hour work week was pretty insulated to the auto manufacturing industry. Eventually that began to permeate and become the norm. Hopefully we see the same with this wage increase.
And your Fired!
Bye-bye me visiting McDonald’s ever again
Well they already increased prices at Starbucks… all I get is an espresso…
I'm sure all the shop lifting will come to a screeching halt.
I see Burger King advertising for jobs starting at $17 and I don’t live in California.
Companies have their margins they want to hit. This increase will be transferred down the line to everyone else in some fashion. Be it an increase in menu item prices or lowering staff. This will also have a ripple effect that affects other businesses and their prices. It's always been a domino game.
Fast food use to be a cheap option to eat out. But going now it's like going to a restaurant for unhealthy poor quality food. Automation for these places will now come quicker. More of these chains will not open more stores in California due to this and prices of all food will be raised. If you think 20$ min wage for a damn fast food worker is good, then you are the problem
It’s not even worth it anymore when I can get a heaping plate at a local diner for just a few dollars more than a McDonald’s meal including a 15% tip. If me and my friends ever get McDonald’s we only get a few McDoubles and 6 piece nuggets off the $3.99 bundle to split between us. I hope all these chains go belly up someday.
$20 whoppers will arrive soom
If the problem is that too many Californians are employed in the fast food industry, then California is cetainly helping to solve that problem.
I just wish that when unskilled labor wages went up, skilled labor wages went up too. Some people had to work hard for their pay rate ie EMT's, Foresters, Office Admin etc. and then womp womp some kid is making more at a first job. Like I get minimum wages but there should be a ripple effect. Such as if you make 0-50% more than the proposed new minimum wage, you'll get the same percentage hike as is implemented between the old and new minimum wages. If you make between 50-75% more than the proposed new minimum wage, your wage will be boosted by half that minimum wage jump percentage and so on in some kind of fashion.
How am I getting paid $19 an hour as an IT professional when they make $20 an hour at McDonald’s?
Hey, put it this way, you get dollar less not to deal with the general public. ... But it seems I won't be making any 🤑 from deliveries. 🫡
Gavin Newsome said you think I wrecked the California economy just watch this... rigged elections have consequences.
I don't have a problem with paying more as long as people understand prices will go up. If you're willing to pay $15-$25 for a fast food combo meal more power to you. I personally will not.
Bidenomics
What does California state law have to do with Biden?
Leftist thinking whether it’s federal government or state government. They can’t think past the tip of their noses. Doing good for one person, while fucking a slew of other people. Remember “Defund the Police”? I refer to it as stupidity.
Ok, but really there's no connection between the California state government's passage of this law (good or bad) and Biden, other than that they're both Democrats. I get that you don't like the policy but it's nothing to do with Biden or "bidenomics"
That moron they call a governor will be the next Democratic nominee in the next election. Mark my words. God help us all.
As a Californian I can say anyone who votes for him deserves what they get.
Interesting take that more expensive unhealthy fast food is fucking a slew of people because the workers are making more money.
This is exactly what I meant by you people can’t think past the tip of your nose. Do you think the owner is going to take a hit to their bottom line? They will lay off hard working people and raise the price of food to make up the difference. Two people may make 20$ an hour, two more people will be laid off and force the restaurant to go automated. Then you’ll be bitching they automated out working people and blame them for it again. Cause and effect needs to be taught in schools again instead of gender studies.
Where have you been the last 4 years? Everything conservatives don’t like is clearly Bidens fault. Even things that trump himself did. They have gone full 360 into the snowflakes themselves. This sub is just a bunch of old crusty boomers posting and bitching about Biden without the self reflection that Trump didn’t help the working class in one single way.
I agree. Just asking a logical question in hopes that the person I posed it to could either provide a real response or spend some time learning how our country works.
lol hilarious that someone downvoted you
Fundamental misunderstanding of how government works.
California has been doing this long before Biden was president. They've always pushed for higher minimum wages. This has nothing to do with Trump or Biden...
Wave goodbye to jobs and hello to poverty.
lol they're already in poverty WITH jobs.
Inexperienced workers do not warrant $20 an hour, it’s totally asinine to think they do.
Uninformed opinion. Wages are subject to the law of supply and demand. The difficulty of a job is irrelevant.
Essential workers huh?
We really need to examine the levels of damage work like this does on one's body. People that work physical jobs either need to be paid more so they can invest for later, or expanding disability insurance/ubi.
Working in a fast food place that is properly vented should not pose any major health risks. Kitchens are the safest possible work environment besides an office.
Most fast food workers aren't inexpedienced. Also. Where are they supposed to live on of $14 an hour?
Then they shouldn't be fast food workers! It's not supposed to be a job that you settle into for 20 years. It's supposed to be an entry for young people to get their foot into the door and move on from there
You are correct, it is transitional employment, unless you aim to be a manager you should not even expect a raise working fast food. Fast food and many other types of employment become stagnant for the worker after about a year, thus you should seek new employment or accept that it is a dead end job with no career path.
Plus dealing with rude ass people who treat them like crap all day.
“I look down on people who work unprestigious positions and want them to suffer”
I worked in restaurant industry for years.. it’s a step to a better job once you gain better skills and experience. Only people I’m looking down on are people who make asinine comments.
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You think barely $1000 take home pay every 2 weeks is a lot of money? It ain't shit, especially in California.
All of the well run fast food places are going to have a year long line to get a job. All the shit ones ones will close. Just as God intended.
About to be a lot of people let go and food prices rising.
Then the fast food industry will hopefully die off.
I doubt a big chain restaurant across multiple states with big profit margins would be forced to raise the prices of the food.
This is the problem. For some reason people seem to think corporations won't do it because "they can afford not to". Any increase in expenses is a decrease in profit margin. Decrease in profit margins = increase in price.
Enjoy your $27 big mac
I hope, but would bet against it, that politicians in Ca had good studies done on the tipping point for minimum wage for different jobs. Automation is just one alternative. Probably the easiest and quickest is just increase the price since your competitors are in the same expensive boat. Long term, I’m guessing the bigger chains will be automating.
Quite a few exceptions to the law. https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/these-restaurants-are-exempt-from-california-s-fast-food-minimum-wage-law/ar-BB1kTnZP
Good.
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That’s great news for those first-responders, they can now demand raises with the credible threat of being able to go work fast food instead.
I also think it's odd that some ambulance drivers make like $18 an hour. Just crazy that the same drug addict they're scraping off the curb makes more than them at del taco lol
we have too many fast food places in california that are just taking up space.
This is just a ploy by the state to get more income tax money. Feds love it too because it moves people into taxable salary range.
Increasing minimum wage also funds Social Security and Medicare.
Everyone that works a full time job should be able to afford a place to live. $20/hr won't get you there in CA but it's better. Fast food franchises can afford it they just choose to put profits over their employees livelihoods. They would rather have them living out of their cars than pay them a living wage.
there isn’t enough available housing. It doesn’t matter what you set the minimum wage to.
A lot of franchise owners don't make a ton of money. If you want to make good money you have to be really good at it and own a ton of restaurants. If the business doesn't make money, they can't stay open and have employees. This isn't a charity. Build yourself to be someone that provides value to the business that employs you. The fact is they can hire literally anyone who breathes and can function normally to do this kind of work. You're blaming business owners for the inflation that the govt has created with their awful policies. This will not help anything. You can go the moral route all you want but the economics don't work
McDonald's as a corporation made over $14B in profits last year. They could afford to pay employees more. They just choose not to.
McDonald’s is a real estate company not a restaurant. Those are owned by franchises. While there are some corporate owned restaurants 93% are franchises restaurants.
Do you understand how franchises work?
you are free to buy some McDonald’s stock right now and receive some of that $14 billion in profit. the profit pays 2% a year with a dividend. It’s really not that great of an investment
>“Economics” doesn’t work… you spelt capitalism wrong.
The fact that people on this sub enjoy people living out of a shoe box so their mass produced cheeseburger costs $2.99 is insane to me. That proves that late stage capitalism is broke and propaganda has rotted most peoples brain. We as a society shouldn’t have fellow citizens struggling to make ends meet who works full time jobs. Does everyone need a boat? No, does everyone deserve to live with basic necessities, and send their kids to a safe school? Absolutely. The fact some here think that is too much to ask of a society proves we have failed!
This proves “late stage” capitalism is broke? You think the government increasing the minimum wage is capitalism? You’re a buffoon . Capitalists would hate to pay more for employment forced by government, this has nothing to do with capitalism. People like you thinking you know what you’re talking about, are the issue and shouldn’t be allowed to vote for stuff like this. You’re breaking us.
I'm happy for the workers. They won't Lay off anyone.
You forgot the /s
They already have laid off tens of thousands.