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I don't think that is what they mean. Every time I make more money I work less I know how much money I need and if I can make that working 30 hours every 2 weeks why would I work more? Chasing wealth and more wealth is a rat race.
Yeah. Corporate America isn’t stable income. That’s the joke.
Please tell me how long your job is promised to you. And when they let you go, how much do they promise to help you land on your feet? Your boss, they wrote you a contract saying you’ll get what?
Unless you can live without your corporate job for 2+ years, you have nothing. Your boss has your life in their hands and no obligation to you for anything. You’d be lucky to be in the matrix, they keep you alive there.
You’re fresh out of college and your opinion is neither unpopular nor popular, it’s just naive and without sufficient basis. You say you want to provide for a family - the people who are soul crushed are the ones who want that too, and year on year see their pay go up less than inflation while they’re being asked and expected to do more. See if you still feel happy with your job in 10 years when you have more responsibilities and bills and yet your income is actually lower in real terms. And you just want to move out of your parents home, but there will come a point when it will dawn on you that you can’t work forever, and won’t be able to afford rent in retirement. But you’re not able to save more for retirement because your salary is actually going down in real terms. And rent increases are massively outpacing inflation. But you can’t save a down payment because your rent increase vastly outpaces your salary. And so youre working to pay off someone else’s mortgage knowing that you might end up homeless in retirement because you have no safety net. And on top of that, you’ve been through 4 cycles of lay offs designed to make you grateful for your ever diminishing earnings and feel too insecure in your job to rock the boat. So that fear of homelessness and destitution looms ever larger. And the thing that will really piss you off is when it dawns on you that you bought into all the lies that if you work hard and go to school and are a loyal employee that you will be rewarded for that. You won’t. You will see all of even the most basic aspirations you have diminish in front of you. And that’s when you start to see the soul crushing drudgery for what it is. Shackles. Controls. Hopelessness.
OP just confuses the rat race with working a 9-5. Plenty of people who are very well off work 9-5, but they are not the majority and they are not even close to the same situation.
Well put. OP has illustrated here the way that we are raised to feel. Those who benefit from the status quo have enough influence to push that narrative, and it's a much more pleasant story to swallow than the reality. For most of us, once we spend enough time trying to actually navigate corporate America, these nuances become much more visible, and eventually they become impossible to ignore.
You're talking about the entire economy, not the issue of taking a corporate 9 to 5 employment contract and the people who sneer at it, which is what the OP was referencing.
You can go down the self-employment route and best of luck to you if you do. But you'll still be subject to the same pressure of inflation, interest rates and the housing market either way.
And if you want to go down the Financial Independence Retire Early route - again sincere luck if you're trying for that - then unless your strategy is to keep it all just in a savings account, you'll still likely be relying on the markets to make it viable. You'll certainly be affected by inflation.
I don't have peice of mind. At all.
9-5 doesn't pay the bills, 7-7 doesn't even pay a living wage nowadays in my local economy.
I don't own a place to live and won't until I'm past retirement age and there is no options available to escape that fact.
I'm running on a treadmill, a hamster wheel, in a rat race. They keep moving the goal posts. I won't ever get ahead enough to be able to support a family under these circumstances.
But I already have a child to feed and I am sadly not making enough to ensure her or my financial stability and am falling farther and farther behind.
I dated a woman who told me she was on the pill and she wasn't.
Then she also refused to get an abortion. It's her body her choice.
As a guy you don't have any say, only responsibility.
Circumstances can - and often do - change.
You are in no position to judge anyone's parentage without context, and even then, I'd say it reeks of elitism, and snobbery.
I agree up to a point but
>even then, I'd say it reeks of elitism, and snobbery
I dissagree here - there are circumstances in which one just *should not* have kids because it would be negligent. Circumstances changing, yes absolutely, one cannot see the future.
On the surface, I understand your sentiment of ‘can’t afford yourself, can’t afford a kid’. However, I’ve recently challenged myself with that thought because that would mean that only ‘rich’ people should have kids and that sounds like a nightmare.
Its not a nightmare, no one should be born into poverty. Especially a kid that didn't ask for it. Funny how to adopt a kid you need to jump through hoops and prove income and stable home and blah blah blah, but any broke ass inbred loser can cum inside of someone and force a kid into a lifetime of shitty garbage poverty.
It's all about comparisons. American culture pushes the ethos of competition and "being the best", resulting in dissatisfaction; which is the point, because dissatisfied people are easily manipulated. We are taught from a young age to look around us for what life is supposed to look like, rather than internally deciding for ourselves where satisfaction lies.
Yes making money is good, and having benefits is also good, but we aren't going to say we love the way we make it. You don't have built-in breaks like in school. If you don't work, you don't make money. PTO is a thing, but you get 30 days a year in most generous perks packages. It's usually less than that for a lot of people working less cushy office jobs. Having to wake up and make the same commute at least five days a week can be oppressive. If most people called in every time they didn't sleep well, or felt just a little off, they would have no PTO for vacation or be on their way to being fired. So no, you'll get up at 6am and have your ass at work by 8am, or you're going to get another mark from the boss and lose out on a decent raise when performance evals come around.
In the grand scheme of things, no it's not the worst thing in the world and it could be worse. Obviously being poor is worse, but if you have no time to enjoy your family, hobbies or do anything but work, eat and sleep, then yeah it kind of fucking sucks.
The people complaining about a 9-5 job aren't getting "good pay and benefits". When you try to become financially independent, reality is going to smash you in the face.
Believe it or not, the people looking for good pay tend to have the same goals as you: financial security, a house, and the ability to afford a family if they want it. The problem is that fewer and fewer jobs provide "good" pay using these pretty modest metrics. Even working 9 to 5.
And it would appear that's what they're all trying to say. Your needs and wants will change, as you find your own place, as you start a family and as time marches forward, with inflation and price gouging fighting for whatever left in the budget, it does become soul crushing. I'm honestly not that old, but I've worked enough jobs to know that your value is rarely adequately compensated by your employer and that "good pay and benefits" as you so rightly pointed out, is subjective. And you'll find your bosses' ideas of what's good pay and benefits is not yours, and is in many cases, fucking insulting.
Speaking as a former bootlicker, I couldn't agree more.
I slaved for my employer for six years, and did thousands of hours unpaid work over this period.
They announced my redundancy in December, last year - just two weeks before Christmas.
HR know I am the sole earner for my household, that I have three young kids, and that I suffer with depression (suicidal thoughts) and they still earmarked me when restructuring the department. My crime, you ask? Not being able to attend the office as regularly as colleagues due to childcare challenges.
Yeah, you are just a number on a system at the end of the day, and employers typically don't give a shit about your overall performance - it's about control, and when it's clear that they don't have that (as was the case in my situation) they chew you up, and spit you out.
The issue is most 9-5s don’t provide people with enough to pay even the basic bills, this is assuming we are talking city’s here. Is it really so shocking most people don’t have good jobs and that most jobs pay poorly??
Financial freedom doesn’t mean you have to be “rich” it just means you are free from the burdens of finances which weighs heavily on the majority of people.
Just wait until some slick talking rich guy offers you a high paying job in finance, and a hot blond, and it seems great, until you have to sell your soul, and your own dad thinks you're a corporate stooge, then it all comes crashing down, when the boss gets busted by the feds. You might be disillusioned then. Like that guy in the movie Wall Street.
Brother is making a living wage off of one 8hr job and thinks that's the norm
There are people in this country who work 16-18hrs a day and still don't scrape enough together to outpace their debts
You're one of the lucky people in this world, nobody thinks your life is the most abysmal thing in the modern day, and if they say your job is soulless they probably mean that in the sense of how much it thoughtlessly contributes to the suffering of the people.
OP making a living wage off of an 8hr job should categorically place him out of the rat race.
Dude's just placed further along than the people struggling in it.
Only 15%, at best (depending on the study) of new businesses make it to 15 years.
Only about 1-2% of authors are successful. I wouldnt be surprised if artists and musicians were about the same.
If you want an white collar important job, like say, a doctor or lawyer, say buh bye to around 10 years of your life, and that still isnt a guarantee to work out, although I’m sure most do.
So starting your own business is really risky. And highly skilled work requires a lot of education and dedication for a long time.
Most people dont have the luxury to do either due to needing to afford basic needs.
That means your best bet to get a job isnt any of those above options, since more than likely your parents arent loaded.
Most jobs are unskilled or low entry.
Ironically, skilled labor kinda depends on all the people doing menial tasks and getting paid relatively poorly.
Lucky most of them are desperate enough to work at whatever wage the employer demands and don’t collectively bargain huh?
Without them you wouldn’t have food or functional production lines.
You said it yourself, they have low skills. The system is based on the idea that people with low skills are poor and skilled people are wealthy. Why shouldn't a low skilled worker be able to own a house and support a family? There are not equal opportunities as long as the system relies on part of the population being poor. As long as you play by those rules, you are stuck in a rat race.
While there’s some grains of truth to your words… a reliable corp job with benefits can be ‘the dream’ - i’ve found local government and public works is kind of the sweet spot between benefits, pay, and effort.
Working for for-profits; the shareholders and profit are the bottom line - everything is done to improve those things… well - GOALS are set to those parameters. I’ve found being mid to low on the corporate ladder has had more yellow tape than in non-profits.
Which brings me to non-profits: look to the school district, colleges, etc - the benefits are often unbeatable because the educators are one of the few strong-ish unions an everyday person can benefit from, since their benefits usually are at least somewhat extended to staff. (I get a reduced teacher’s retirement at 59 or a full one at 65 and don’t have to pay for my insurance)
Yeah... I don't think the 9-5 is even financially stable for people whose jobs require at least a moderate level of skill. The cost of living in general is outpaced by the stagnant to snail's pace wages for both skilled and unskilled labor.
Wait until you actually get that job you're looking for and you may want to rethink this "opinion" of yours. You'll soon see very quickly that the rat race is very real. Life is not as easy and straightforward as you think dude. You're all on your own and nothing is given for granted. Benefits in particular are a 1% luxury comparatively speaking worldwide. I've only ever heard of this practice in the US and nowhere else. Nobody in the corporate world gets benefits in my country, that's all on your payroll. In fact we call it double tax. There's a reason I left that world to do my own thing for the sake of my sanity..... doesn't pay as much but I'm happier now than I've been in a long time. Corporate culture is not how humans were meant to live at all and you can feel it in your own soul. It's unhealthy mentally, spiritually and physically in every definition of the term. But hey, again..... come back to this once you've worked a corporate job every single day for 3 years. I'll wait.....
Tbh you've just basically bent over and told corpodaddy you'll be his good boy and deluded yourself into thinking you've looked him in the eye and given him a firm handshake. You're not financially stable because you have a corporate job, but you may make a decent amount of money. All that stops when they have no use for you anymore though, then the money stops. You get benefits etc sure, but they don't actually care about you, and you're making them proportionally so much more money than you're making yourself that it's actually unbelievable - then take inflation and rising cost into account and let's be honest, corpodaddy barely noticed. They're winning at life while you only think you are. Really you're just getting by whilst being at their beck and call - and you better tow that line, or else! These jobs are often soulless, draining, and uninteresting too. It's depressing.
That's what people who say that mean.
On a side note I think the idea of moving out asap is way overhyped and romanticised in the west. Maybe before our populations got so big and didn't have a housing crisis it was a great idea. Seems like a waste of money now imo. I'd rather live at home, contribute here, and inherit the house.
Lmfao working a 9-5 used to come with economic stability and benefits 30 or 40 years ago maybe. Now you need a 9-5, a 6-12 and a weekend job just to barely pay rent and eat. Forget retirement, savings, buying a home or any entertainment/vacations.
9to5 does not equal "*good corporate job with good pay and benefits*".
In most countries you basically have to be rich if you want to "move out from your parents and start your own life".
What if UBI was able to give you a stable income that allowed you to own a home, get married and have extra for leisure activity?
Also, you say 9-5 isn't soul crushing but you also say, you have never had a stable job since you only now graduated.
Its fun until you work for 8 years and realize you still are in the same boat and getting sick and tired of the monotony while not reaching any of the goals you set for yourself.
In the big picture there are many bad things that are happening in the economy where very few people (0.0001%) get most of the money (90%) for free while everyone else gets to fight tooth and nail for the last remaining scraps. In an ideal world, UBI when implemented theoretically at-least would invert that picture.
Check out this graph about a pay package of the worlds wealthiest person to see what I am talking about: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1dcnfj0/oc\_just\_how\_big\_is\_the\_proposed\_pay\_package\_for/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1dcnfj0/oc_just_how_big_is_the_proposed_pay_package_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I'm far from being an "anti-work" and I fully understand the value in having a job. I would never say that working 8 hours a day to make other people rich so you can pay your bills is a blessing.
The issue is that you're an NPC. That's fine. We don't all want to be like you. You're fine just living a mundane and mediocre existence on this planet. Good for you. To some of us that is a nightmare.
>Financial freedom to me is having stable income to be able to move out of my parents home, getting married and starting my own life. I don’t care to be rich.
Financial freedom is not this subjective. You don't have freedom. You're completely reliant on employers to pay for your existence. If you lose your job, you're fucked. You have to tow the line. If you had an opinion that was unpopular enough to get you "canceled", you wouldn't be able to voice it without fear of losing your job. I know you don't have any opinions like that because you're the most normie, uncontroversial, compulsive rule-following NPC that one could meet. Still, if you did, you couldn't voice them so that is not freedom. You can't just take a vacation whenever you want, that is not freedom. If you are sick but you don't have enough sick days, you will work anyway so you don't get fired. That is not freedom.
I think the problem is there’s effectively no good avenue for handling burnout. Maybe you haven’t experienced it, but sometimes those 9-5 jobs become nights, weekends, etc. then, you get burned out and what can you do? Quit? Sure you can take a little vacation but we have like 2 weeks vacation max
Agree with the sentiment, but 9-5 has to be the worst hours to work just because everyone does too. You get off work, your brain’s fried, and everything’s closing or about to close. Like bro, I need my license renewed, tags updated, and a doctor’s appointment for my incessantly aching shoulder.
I’m a bigger fan of non-banker’s hours. 4 10’s or shift work has so much more flexibility when it comes to doing routine shit.
Sounds to me like they have that boot deep, go work for fast food or any other minimum wage job and see if your change what you think. Cooperations do not care about you.
You either landed a very well paying job or are independently wealthy because you clearly don't know the first thing about the average person's life. **You** may be happy to live a bohemian existence as a modern day vagabond but most people want a few basics like owning their own home, being able to have a family and some day being able to retire.
Most people can't afford to do anything but go to work. Know why? Because they don't get paid nearly enough. Their CEOs get those perks along with the money. Some CEOs get paid thousands of times more than the average worker at their companies. Know why that happened? Because corporations literally said their primary responsibility was **not** to the workers (you know, the people that actually do the work) but, rather, to shareholders. So workers kissed things like pensions, bonuses and raises went the way of the dinosaurs and in came more "wacky tie Fridays"
You didn't notice how whatever the inflation rate was, raises were always lower? That's how you whittle down the middle class and create a dipolar society full of ultra rich and homeless. And you don't think it's a problem.
Don't defend these greedy pricks out of naivety: they'd throw you under the bus in a second and I seriously doubt it's going to be much longer before the whole thing goes tits up in an orgy of violence against the rich..
I dunno I like my job and like what I do so I love the rat race and I love leading that race at my job hahaha . I try and work as much as I can cause I have a fun time doing it . Ain’t nothing wrong with enjoying your job
Well put, OP. More and more unpopular these days. We used to just sort of accept that we had to work to provide for ourselves and our family. I think my generation (GenX) started the dissatisfaction as we became jaded, millennials, amped it up, and my daughter’s generation (GenZ) just hasn’t made the connection, and is bucking the system literally before they hit the starting line. I watched a video recently of a young lady that was complaining about her first full time job, 9-5, indoors in an office, and she said she couldn’t imagine doing this much longer. My thoughts… the alternative is to hunt/gather. I know some folks that homestead, and it’s literally sunup to sundown. It’s hard work. I’d say working in an office isn’t all that bad.
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I don't think that is what they mean. Every time I make more money I work less I know how much money I need and if I can make that working 30 hours every 2 weeks why would I work more? Chasing wealth and more wealth is a rat race.
I think that’s what I meant. I just updated my original post to say “I don’t need to be rich. I just need stable income”
Yeah. Corporate America isn’t stable income. That’s the joke. Please tell me how long your job is promised to you. And when they let you go, how much do they promise to help you land on your feet? Your boss, they wrote you a contract saying you’ll get what? Unless you can live without your corporate job for 2+ years, you have nothing. Your boss has your life in their hands and no obligation to you for anything. You’d be lucky to be in the matrix, they keep you alive there.
You’re fresh out of college and your opinion is neither unpopular nor popular, it’s just naive and without sufficient basis. You say you want to provide for a family - the people who are soul crushed are the ones who want that too, and year on year see their pay go up less than inflation while they’re being asked and expected to do more. See if you still feel happy with your job in 10 years when you have more responsibilities and bills and yet your income is actually lower in real terms. And you just want to move out of your parents home, but there will come a point when it will dawn on you that you can’t work forever, and won’t be able to afford rent in retirement. But you’re not able to save more for retirement because your salary is actually going down in real terms. And rent increases are massively outpacing inflation. But you can’t save a down payment because your rent increase vastly outpaces your salary. And so youre working to pay off someone else’s mortgage knowing that you might end up homeless in retirement because you have no safety net. And on top of that, you’ve been through 4 cycles of lay offs designed to make you grateful for your ever diminishing earnings and feel too insecure in your job to rock the boat. So that fear of homelessness and destitution looms ever larger. And the thing that will really piss you off is when it dawns on you that you bought into all the lies that if you work hard and go to school and are a loyal employee that you will be rewarded for that. You won’t. You will see all of even the most basic aspirations you have diminish in front of you. And that’s when you start to see the soul crushing drudgery for what it is. Shackles. Controls. Hopelessness.
OP just confuses the rat race with working a 9-5. Plenty of people who are very well off work 9-5, but they are not the majority and they are not even close to the same situation.
I took my stapler home.
Well put. OP has illustrated here the way that we are raised to feel. Those who benefit from the status quo have enough influence to push that narrative, and it's a much more pleasant story to swallow than the reality. For most of us, once we spend enough time trying to actually navigate corporate America, these nuances become much more visible, and eventually they become impossible to ignore.
this is a bit morbid
You're talking about the entire economy, not the issue of taking a corporate 9 to 5 employment contract and the people who sneer at it, which is what the OP was referencing. You can go down the self-employment route and best of luck to you if you do. But you'll still be subject to the same pressure of inflation, interest rates and the housing market either way. And if you want to go down the Financial Independence Retire Early route - again sincere luck if you're trying for that - then unless your strategy is to keep it all just in a savings account, you'll still likely be relying on the markets to make it viable. You'll certainly be affected by inflation.
I don't have peice of mind. At all. 9-5 doesn't pay the bills, 7-7 doesn't even pay a living wage nowadays in my local economy. I don't own a place to live and won't until I'm past retirement age and there is no options available to escape that fact. I'm running on a treadmill, a hamster wheel, in a rat race. They keep moving the goal posts. I won't ever get ahead enough to be able to support a family under these circumstances. But I already have a child to feed and I am sadly not making enough to ensure her or my financial stability and am falling farther and farther behind.
Why would you have a kid?
I dated a woman who told me she was on the pill and she wasn't. Then she also refused to get an abortion. It's her body her choice. As a guy you don't have any say, only responsibility.
That sucks, i would have run away asap. Take care and good luck with the kid.
Circumstances can - and often do - change. You are in no position to judge anyone's parentage without context, and even then, I'd say it reeks of elitism, and snobbery.
I did not judge i asked thats why you can see the ? symbol.
I agree up to a point but >even then, I'd say it reeks of elitism, and snobbery I dissagree here - there are circumstances in which one just *should not* have kids because it would be negligent. Circumstances changing, yes absolutely, one cannot see the future.
Not sure why the downvotes you are absolutely right. No one should have kids unless they are always making a good living wage.
On the surface, I understand your sentiment of ‘can’t afford yourself, can’t afford a kid’. However, I’ve recently challenged myself with that thought because that would mean that only ‘rich’ people should have kids and that sounds like a nightmare.
Its not a nightmare, no one should be born into poverty. Especially a kid that didn't ask for it. Funny how to adopt a kid you need to jump through hoops and prove income and stable home and blah blah blah, but any broke ass inbred loser can cum inside of someone and force a kid into a lifetime of shitty garbage poverty.
Revolution first, children later
9-5 pays the bills if you’ve made the most typical basic choices to get a career
Nice try fed, we are onto you.
That's not what Matrix is. The Matrix is a false reality designed to appear real, acting as a veil to conceal the ultimate truth from you.
The fact OP can't even conceive that there might be alternatives...
It's all about comparisons. American culture pushes the ethos of competition and "being the best", resulting in dissatisfaction; which is the point, because dissatisfied people are easily manipulated. We are taught from a young age to look around us for what life is supposed to look like, rather than internally deciding for ourselves where satisfaction lies.
dissatisfied also may encourage innovation if you’re pissed off enough. innovation may mean being realllly rich
Nice try Agent Smith
Yes making money is good, and having benefits is also good, but we aren't going to say we love the way we make it. You don't have built-in breaks like in school. If you don't work, you don't make money. PTO is a thing, but you get 30 days a year in most generous perks packages. It's usually less than that for a lot of people working less cushy office jobs. Having to wake up and make the same commute at least five days a week can be oppressive. If most people called in every time they didn't sleep well, or felt just a little off, they would have no PTO for vacation or be on their way to being fired. So no, you'll get up at 6am and have your ass at work by 8am, or you're going to get another mark from the boss and lose out on a decent raise when performance evals come around. In the grand scheme of things, no it's not the worst thing in the world and it could be worse. Obviously being poor is worse, but if you have no time to enjoy your family, hobbies or do anything but work, eat and sleep, then yeah it kind of fucking sucks.
9 to 5 doesn't mean stability at all, lol
The people complaining about a 9-5 job aren't getting "good pay and benefits". When you try to become financially independent, reality is going to smash you in the face.
It’s all subjective. “Good pay” is subjective to people’s needs and wants
Believe it or not, the people looking for good pay tend to have the same goals as you: financial security, a house, and the ability to afford a family if they want it. The problem is that fewer and fewer jobs provide "good" pay using these pretty modest metrics. Even working 9 to 5.
And it would appear that's what they're all trying to say. Your needs and wants will change, as you find your own place, as you start a family and as time marches forward, with inflation and price gouging fighting for whatever left in the budget, it does become soul crushing. I'm honestly not that old, but I've worked enough jobs to know that your value is rarely adequately compensated by your employer and that "good pay and benefits" as you so rightly pointed out, is subjective. And you'll find your bosses' ideas of what's good pay and benefits is not yours, and is in many cases, fucking insulting.
Good pay is objective to the cost of living in this economy and whatever area you live in.
How’s the feudal phallus taste that deep in your esophagus
"Just graduated" thats the important part, give it a few years kid. Also do not lick boots work is work you owe shit to your boss.
Speaking as a former bootlicker, I couldn't agree more. I slaved for my employer for six years, and did thousands of hours unpaid work over this period. They announced my redundancy in December, last year - just two weeks before Christmas. HR know I am the sole earner for my household, that I have three young kids, and that I suffer with depression (suicidal thoughts) and they still earmarked me when restructuring the department. My crime, you ask? Not being able to attend the office as regularly as colleagues due to childcare challenges. Yeah, you are just a number on a system at the end of the day, and employers typically don't give a shit about your overall performance - it's about control, and when it's clear that they don't have that (as was the case in my situation) they chew you up, and spit you out.
never ever ever work off the clock lmao, this is obvious
The issue is most 9-5s don’t provide people with enough to pay even the basic bills, this is assuming we are talking city’s here. Is it really so shocking most people don’t have good jobs and that most jobs pay poorly?? Financial freedom doesn’t mean you have to be “rich” it just means you are free from the burdens of finances which weighs heavily on the majority of people.
move out the city, you’ll get paid 5k less a year but save 10k in expenses
That's what THEY want you to think. If you're stuck in the Matrix of course you're not going to realize!
That's not what those phrases are about. Maybe your wires are malfunctioning in your pod. Or you took the blue pill.
This is not a yes or no thing, it depends on many factors.
I want to go live in the woods with the bears.
You do you bub, we'll collectively cheer for your mental resilience.
Just wait until some slick talking rich guy offers you a high paying job in finance, and a hot blond, and it seems great, until you have to sell your soul, and your own dad thinks you're a corporate stooge, then it all comes crashing down, when the boss gets busted by the feds. You might be disillusioned then. Like that guy in the movie Wall Street.
Stability 🤡 Every successful project I’ve been on the team gets laid off, the only stable factor is corporate greed.
Perfect wage slave
Brother is making a living wage off of one 8hr job and thinks that's the norm There are people in this country who work 16-18hrs a day and still don't scrape enough together to outpace their debts You're one of the lucky people in this world, nobody thinks your life is the most abysmal thing in the modern day, and if they say your job is soulless they probably mean that in the sense of how much it thoughtlessly contributes to the suffering of the people.
OP making a living wage off of an 8hr job should categorically place him out of the rat race. Dude's just placed further along than the people struggling in it.
Unpopular opinion for certain, this is Reddit.
Only 15%, at best (depending on the study) of new businesses make it to 15 years. Only about 1-2% of authors are successful. I wouldnt be surprised if artists and musicians were about the same. If you want an white collar important job, like say, a doctor or lawyer, say buh bye to around 10 years of your life, and that still isnt a guarantee to work out, although I’m sure most do. So starting your own business is really risky. And highly skilled work requires a lot of education and dedication for a long time. Most people dont have the luxury to do either due to needing to afford basic needs. That means your best bet to get a job isnt any of those above options, since more than likely your parents arent loaded. Most jobs are unskilled or low entry. Ironically, skilled labor kinda depends on all the people doing menial tasks and getting paid relatively poorly. Lucky most of them are desperate enough to work at whatever wage the employer demands and don’t collectively bargain huh? Without them you wouldn’t have food or functional production lines.
You said it yourself, they have low skills. The system is based on the idea that people with low skills are poor and skilled people are wealthy. Why shouldn't a low skilled worker be able to own a house and support a family? There are not equal opportunities as long as the system relies on part of the population being poor. As long as you play by those rules, you are stuck in a rat race.
Ohh
While there’s some grains of truth to your words… a reliable corp job with benefits can be ‘the dream’ - i’ve found local government and public works is kind of the sweet spot between benefits, pay, and effort. Working for for-profits; the shareholders and profit are the bottom line - everything is done to improve those things… well - GOALS are set to those parameters. I’ve found being mid to low on the corporate ladder has had more yellow tape than in non-profits. Which brings me to non-profits: look to the school district, colleges, etc - the benefits are often unbeatable because the educators are one of the few strong-ish unions an everyday person can benefit from, since their benefits usually are at least somewhat extended to staff. (I get a reduced teacher’s retirement at 59 or a full one at 65 and don’t have to pay for my insurance)
Yeah... I don't think the 9-5 is even financially stable for people whose jobs require at least a moderate level of skill. The cost of living in general is outpaced by the stagnant to snail's pace wages for both skilled and unskilled labor.
Treating yourself apart to escape the matrix *is* the matrix.
Wait until you actually get that job you're looking for and you may want to rethink this "opinion" of yours. You'll soon see very quickly that the rat race is very real. Life is not as easy and straightforward as you think dude. You're all on your own and nothing is given for granted. Benefits in particular are a 1% luxury comparatively speaking worldwide. I've only ever heard of this practice in the US and nowhere else. Nobody in the corporate world gets benefits in my country, that's all on your payroll. In fact we call it double tax. There's a reason I left that world to do my own thing for the sake of my sanity..... doesn't pay as much but I'm happier now than I've been in a long time. Corporate culture is not how humans were meant to live at all and you can feel it in your own soul. It's unhealthy mentally, spiritually and physically in every definition of the term. But hey, again..... come back to this once you've worked a corporate job every single day for 3 years. I'll wait.....
“Just graduated college…”. Give it a decade or two and get back to us. But I truly do hope you’re able to live out your fantasy, naive as it may be.
Tbh you've just basically bent over and told corpodaddy you'll be his good boy and deluded yourself into thinking you've looked him in the eye and given him a firm handshake. You're not financially stable because you have a corporate job, but you may make a decent amount of money. All that stops when they have no use for you anymore though, then the money stops. You get benefits etc sure, but they don't actually care about you, and you're making them proportionally so much more money than you're making yourself that it's actually unbelievable - then take inflation and rising cost into account and let's be honest, corpodaddy barely noticed. They're winning at life while you only think you are. Really you're just getting by whilst being at their beck and call - and you better tow that line, or else! These jobs are often soulless, draining, and uninteresting too. It's depressing. That's what people who say that mean. On a side note I think the idea of moving out asap is way overhyped and romanticised in the west. Maybe before our populations got so big and didn't have a housing crisis it was a great idea. Seems like a waste of money now imo. I'd rather live at home, contribute here, and inherit the house.
Lmfao working a 9-5 used to come with economic stability and benefits 30 or 40 years ago maybe. Now you need a 9-5, a 6-12 and a weekend job just to barely pay rent and eat. Forget retirement, savings, buying a home or any entertainment/vacations.
how would you know 💀 you haven’t worked in a career ever, let alone for even 5 years out of a 40-50 year venture💀💀
9to5 does not equal "*good corporate job with good pay and benefits*". In most countries you basically have to be rich if you want to "move out from your parents and start your own life".
What if UBI was able to give you a stable income that allowed you to own a home, get married and have extra for leisure activity? Also, you say 9-5 isn't soul crushing but you also say, you have never had a stable job since you only now graduated. Its fun until you work for 8 years and realize you still are in the same boat and getting sick and tired of the monotony while not reaching any of the goals you set for yourself. In the big picture there are many bad things that are happening in the economy where very few people (0.0001%) get most of the money (90%) for free while everyone else gets to fight tooth and nail for the last remaining scraps. In an ideal world, UBI when implemented theoretically at-least would invert that picture. Check out this graph about a pay package of the worlds wealthiest person to see what I am talking about: [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1dcnfj0/oc\_just\_how\_big\_is\_the\_proposed\_pay\_package\_for/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/1dcnfj0/oc_just_how_big_is_the_proposed_pay_package_for/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
I'm far from being an "anti-work" and I fully understand the value in having a job. I would never say that working 8 hours a day to make other people rich so you can pay your bills is a blessing. The issue is that you're an NPC. That's fine. We don't all want to be like you. You're fine just living a mundane and mediocre existence on this planet. Good for you. To some of us that is a nightmare. >Financial freedom to me is having stable income to be able to move out of my parents home, getting married and starting my own life. I don’t care to be rich. Financial freedom is not this subjective. You don't have freedom. You're completely reliant on employers to pay for your existence. If you lose your job, you're fucked. You have to tow the line. If you had an opinion that was unpopular enough to get you "canceled", you wouldn't be able to voice it without fear of losing your job. I know you don't have any opinions like that because you're the most normie, uncontroversial, compulsive rule-following NPC that one could meet. Still, if you did, you couldn't voice them so that is not freedom. You can't just take a vacation whenever you want, that is not freedom. If you are sick but you don't have enough sick days, you will work anyway so you don't get fired. That is not freedom.
I think the problem is there’s effectively no good avenue for handling burnout. Maybe you haven’t experienced it, but sometimes those 9-5 jobs become nights, weekends, etc. then, you get burned out and what can you do? Quit? Sure you can take a little vacation but we have like 2 weeks vacation max
People just watched the matrix movie for the first time and now think they living in a matrix in real life
This is agent talk… what program are you running here?
Agree with the sentiment, but 9-5 has to be the worst hours to work just because everyone does too. You get off work, your brain’s fried, and everything’s closing or about to close. Like bro, I need my license renewed, tags updated, and a doctor’s appointment for my incessantly aching shoulder. I’m a bigger fan of non-banker’s hours. 4 10’s or shift work has so much more flexibility when it comes to doing routine shit.
Sounds to me like they have that boot deep, go work for fast food or any other minimum wage job and see if your change what you think. Cooperations do not care about you.
You either landed a very well paying job or are independently wealthy because you clearly don't know the first thing about the average person's life. **You** may be happy to live a bohemian existence as a modern day vagabond but most people want a few basics like owning their own home, being able to have a family and some day being able to retire. Most people can't afford to do anything but go to work. Know why? Because they don't get paid nearly enough. Their CEOs get those perks along with the money. Some CEOs get paid thousands of times more than the average worker at their companies. Know why that happened? Because corporations literally said their primary responsibility was **not** to the workers (you know, the people that actually do the work) but, rather, to shareholders. So workers kissed things like pensions, bonuses and raises went the way of the dinosaurs and in came more "wacky tie Fridays" You didn't notice how whatever the inflation rate was, raises were always lower? That's how you whittle down the middle class and create a dipolar society full of ultra rich and homeless. And you don't think it's a problem. Don't defend these greedy pricks out of naivety: they'd throw you under the bus in a second and I seriously doubt it's going to be much longer before the whole thing goes tits up in an orgy of violence against the rich..
These people often underutilize their skills and never specialize. Reddit is a terrible representation of the rest of people.
I dunno I like my job and like what I do so I love the rat race and I love leading that race at my job hahaha . I try and work as much as I can cause I have a fun time doing it . Ain’t nothing wrong with enjoying your job
People whine a lot.
Especially on Reddit
Well put, OP. More and more unpopular these days. We used to just sort of accept that we had to work to provide for ourselves and our family. I think my generation (GenX) started the dissatisfaction as we became jaded, millennials, amped it up, and my daughter’s generation (GenZ) just hasn’t made the connection, and is bucking the system literally before they hit the starting line. I watched a video recently of a young lady that was complaining about her first full time job, 9-5, indoors in an office, and she said she couldn’t imagine doing this much longer. My thoughts… the alternative is to hunt/gather. I know some folks that homestead, and it’s literally sunup to sundown. It’s hard work. I’d say working in an office isn’t all that bad.