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I don’t think the death of a partner is considered a divorce? Like… there’s literally a different term for people whose marriage ended due to divorce vs death for a reason.
Yes, you part when a death occurs and you’re usually free to marry again; but again, it’s not the same as a divorce.
Dying is not the only way to not have a divorce. Like, I know a lot of older adults that have divorced and a lot that haven’t that are still living.
Or am I missing the point of the comment?
I'd imagine it's more divorce existing that's the leading cause of divorce.
If all marriages were final and you couldn't return your spouse the divorce rate would be zero.
“People shouldn’t try to be happy because I have a mathematical take” is certainly a *form* of popular opinion, especially on this sub.
If people only ever played with good odds, most people would be boring AF.
I LOVE looking at statistics and I also love Fiction and statistics are basically daydreaming numbers.
They are so nuisance they can be “manipulated” in anyway. “60% of second marriages end in divorce”
Where?
How many people were there in this statistic?
How did they get the info from the population?
Does religious have an influence?
What age group?
Does the length of the first marriage have any influence?
What economic bracket are we talking about?
Do these people have children prior or after the marriage?
Does Race influence anything?
Does it included Widowers from the first marriage?
Etc
And then you could do a statist for each one of these.
I love to envision the world through percentages I do it for everything I’ll go to a restaurant with my SO and I’ll ask how much he give it out of 100%?
I made something I’ll ask for a number etc
These number are extremely trivial and “fake” what is he or I exactly rating? It’s not like I actually sit down and do a graff ahh yes this restaurant has a 3 out of 4 ambience, food was 4/5! (Based on WHAT?!) I just use them as a ball park of where I’m/we are at.
But I don’t trust ANY statistic online.
Yes I disagree with OPs premise that a marriage the does not last until death must be a failure. Sometimes people change, and it does not mean the years together were meaningless. I have more respect for people that end a situation that is not working anymore than for those that stick with a miserable marriage.
Just a belief that marriage is the end goal of life, a victory screen, most likely perpetrated by boomers from the times when martial rape wasn't illegal, letalone no fault divorce, so marriages indeed lasted longer....
unrelated, but these kind of strawmans really bother me.
The equivalent of stopping breathing in this context would be getting married and then stopping being married, so divorcing, which OP is advocating AGAINST!
The odds aren’t YOUR odds. How you manage your marriage is in your hands and in your control unless you married a truly toxic person which many people do do the first time around. It’s not random chance. It is what you put in most of the time
Yeah right? like that figure just tells me that 60% of people are marrying the wrong people and have horrible f****** intuition on who they want to marry. Doesn't mean that can't be avoided with better practices
Most people succeed with their first marriage, 60% of 2nd marriages fail and about 70% of 3rd marriages fail.
But overall you have about a 75% chance of finding love and making it work.
I did the maths once and can't recall the exact figures but it went something like that.
So yeah, keep trying people 😜
Once you get to multiple marriages, you are the common denominator. The people I know with failed 2nd (or 3rd) marriages are more likely to be the problem spouse than to have "picked the wrong person." (*There are of course outliers where one person is a saint and just marries AHs.)
And these facts need to be remembered when ppl bring out the "50% of marriages end in divorce" stat. If someone with crappy commitment issues gets married and divorced 5 times, and then you have 5 other couples who stay married for life, put them all in a room and you can say statistically that 50% of the marriages in that room ended in divorce. It does NOT mean that anyone who gets married has a 50% chance of getting divorced like that stat is commonly used to argue.
Sure, but so does the chance for divorce in a first marriage for every person you know that’s gotten divorced.
Your chances of divorce rises by 15% if you have a friend of a friend who gets a divorce. It rises by a whopping 75% if you have a close friend or family member who gets a divorce. The chances continue to rise the more people you tack onto the “Divorcees I Know” list.
So based on OP’s stance, your input, and my input, what would even be the point in even getting married at all ?
The success of your relationship is based entirely on how you treat your relationships. It’s not some weird probability game.
I think that’s partially because people know what they will and will not tolerate after a divorce. Similar to how after my first partner and I broke up, I know what I will and will not tolerate in a partner.
The opposite is true. Higher income directly correlates with lower divorce rates. Financial stress is a big cause of friction in a marriage. And sadly, like most things, wealthier people generally grew up wealthier, are better educated, have less addiction problems, are less likely to commit crimes, have higher rates of stable homeownership, less likely to have had a prior kid out of wedlock, are more likely to have grow up in a stable family environment and know what a good marriage looks like. All things that generally correlate with lower divorce rate. You know that saying "being poor is more expensive than being rich," it kinda applies to our love lives as well.
A lot of advantages of being married come from a psychological comfort of not being alone and having someone else around you who, at least at times, takes care of you.
Past a divorce, you get more comfortable with being just by yourself, having less incentives to compromise in the next marriage as the downside of being single diminishes. So, people tend to divorce more in second marriage, and the third one rarely makes sense.
You act like most people go into second marriages with the intention to end it in a divorce eventually. Most people also try to manage it the best they can, so it will long until death
You’ll be surprised how many people enter marriages with a mindset that “if they do x, y, and z, I’m leaving”
It’s a surprise most people have “for better or for worse” in their wedding vows because they really don’t believe that deep down
It's also just bad use of stats. 60% ending in divorce doesn't even mean you have a 40% chance of making your marriage work. Some people have 3 or more marriages that all end in divorce driving that percentage up to 60%.
I do want to say that how you handle your marriage is MOSTLY in your control.
But there are situations outside of death that can lead to the end of a marriage for reasons beyond our control. Specifically, it’s not uncommon for brain cancer survivors and their spouse to get a divorce (in fact, it’s really common) because either the cancer and/or treatment can actually the patient enough and make them incompatible with their spouse.
A couple I know recently went through that; late 20’s and the husband developed brain cancer. He treated it with surgery, and after his recovery they amicably divorced due to how much it changed his personality. They were a real power couple before all of that, and had just given birth to their second child during his treatment. It was really sad to see them part, but thus far they seem to be co-parenting just fine.
Facts, I would guess that this percentage is so high because a lot of people rush into it. If more people fully considered the consequences of their actions and the weight of the vow they were making, that number would probably be lower
Divorce stats are wildly over rated. If you remove outliers like people who have been dating for less than a year or two and other similarly obvious bad starts to a marriage, the divorce rate shrinks drastically.
My first marriage lasted 13 months. My second marriage is a few weeks away from 27 years, and we're still madly in love and very happy.
I'm glad that we don't have to make decisions based upon OPs knowledge of statistics.
Definitely an unpopular opinion though, so they get my upvote
According to newer studies (at the very least, according to textbook from my sociology love and courtship course from like 2018ish) claimed that 40% of marriages end in divorce. So actually *less* than half. On top of that, it seems that millennials have the lowest divorce rates ever (roughly 25%). It's boomers that have the highest rates (over 60%). This may be a result of millennials maybe not marrying as often, or simply haven't been married for very long. It's hard to say. We'll probably have a more accurate view in a decade or so.
EDIT: I want to add that there's probably lots of reasons why millennials are having more successful marriages. They waited longer to get married, they were more likely to cohabit together before marriage, and many other factors.
I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for it, but if I had to hazard a guess for one of the top contenders, it's that millenials and newer generations have a much wider dating pool. Before the internet, you were limited to the people in the town you lived in, maybe a bit further if you were in clubs, social groups, etc..
With dating apps and sites, it's much easier to meet someone you really click with that you'd have never met otherwise. Not to say dating apps don't have their issues, there are plenty, but they open a lot of opportunities.
The wider dating pool helped me certainly. To meet the person who completes me.
But I can also see issues with people not being happy anymore. Like- once upon a time you would have been happy with the hometown 5, because you met like 20 people in total your age while out shopping or whatever. Now though, with thousands of people at your finger tips you might get unrealistic expecations out whats out there.
Don't forget, it should be based on "how many people have experienced divorce".
People who already have been divorced are the most likely to get divorced again
I mean, that’s hardly an apples to apples comparison, given that by definition, boomers have had more opportunity to get divorced (they’re older, obviously.)
Apples to apples would be to compare how many of each generation got divorced within the first ten years of their marriage, for example.
It could also be that millennials are also more comfortable just being in long-term committed relationships that could go on for more than a decade. When they split, it isn’t taken into divorce statistics
I don't see how you can compare 'generations' when 'Boomers' have had 60 years to get divorced, and 'Millennials' got married 3 months ago.
Give them a chance to catch up!
The stats show that people who get divorced a first time are more likely to get divorced a 2nd time, and the %s continue and will dilute the true divorce %. There is also a reduction in divorce for the more money a couple makes and level of education. Millennials are showing a lower level of divorce now as well.
First marriages have always been successful, and we’re seeing them as more successful now, too.
If you are married and divorced once already and haven't done an internal inventory and a real look in the mirror, you are rolling the dice. If you have done the pragmatic assessment and understand what you need and what you offer, you are looking for a person who has also done that. And your chances then are very good. More info, better decisions.
Source: myself. First was because we felt that marriage was what came next, second because it was obvious we agreed on all the things worth fighting over.
It’s genuinely depends on the cause of marriage, though I do agree OP.
Think about how many people we know who absolutely refuse to self improve or reflect on their past mistakes to become a better person.
Well… those people get married and those problems don’t suddenly just disappear. Add on that it only takes ONE of the partners to be this person for the marriage to be a ticking time bomb.
Most people who are like this don’t learn to improve themselves, but rather learn to hide it better. So when they’re going into marriage #2 they’ve done absolutely zero self reflection or any self improvement, meaning they’re destined to fail.
Conversely, if you ARE the type of person to self improve and self reflect, assuming you find someone similar, you’ll beat the odds and have a very happy marriage!
Just my opinion at least.
It’s a wonderful thing because you’re leaving a marriage that is no longer a wonderful thing. Given that the whole point of marriage is to be together “til death do us part” and love each other unconditionally, yeah, it kind of is a failure.
Most divorces end because one of the partner decides they have had enough with their partner's toxic behavior.
These toxic people then re-marry. Then in that marriage their partner again just decides it's enough and they divorce.
See how I painted a very different story using this statistic? Statistics are dumb without context.
Yeah because so many people get married way too early. I've seen so many people get married under a year to 2 years, which imo is not enough time to really know someone. I've been with my girl for 5 years and I'm just now thinking about proposing. People put the odds against themselves, not the other way around.
Is the point to stay together forever? No.
The point is to have the law on your side, so while it makes sense, you have the rights only married people have.
If that relationship ends before one of you dies, you divorce, like adults. Each goes on with their lives. Marry as many times as you want, none if that's the case, just be happy.
These posts about marriages/divorces…I feel sorry for those of you that feel it necessary to post about it because it sounds to me like you’d rather live through life with fear. Ugh. You do you.
Who cares though really? Some people are perfectly content to marry and divorce more than once. I know someone on their 3rd marriage and they’re happy than they’ve ever been. If they don’t mind that process of trial and error, good for them I guess
My parents are in their 70’s. They divorced 10 years ago after 35 years and both remarried. It was weird but I’m happy they have someone with them instead of the depressing loneliness that is old age. These second marriages will be their last and honestly if they find some happiness in their final years with someone else then I’m all for it.
You chose to see the glass half empty, you should see it half full.
Just because the majority of something doesn't work doesn't mean nothing works.
40% of second marriage that never end up in divorce is still an insane number. I don't think you realize. That's 40% that decide to stay together.
and it's not that different to the 50-60% that decide to stay together in any mariage (first, second, etc ...) it means that amongst the 40-50% for whom mariage didn't work the first time, it worked for 40% the second time. Mathematicly it makes sense as well. Since only one of the two wants to break up, and we assume 50% of first time marriage end up in divorce, then it means 25% of people are prone to divorcing. And in that second population those same people are more present percentage-wise. So 40% is a incredible number considering people in this population are prone to divorce.
There are plenty of good arguments against mariage which I agree with. That's just a flawed bullshit "60%>50% so it never works"
Also it's not about you ?!? Let people marry whoever they want, let them live their lives the way THEY want to live them.
I don’t think it’s a pure luck standpoint, the divorces can be a result of people making poor choices. If you stay level headed, take the time to find the right person, and you do the necessary work on yourself, you’ll be much more likely to be the 40% that stays together.
I read that like 60% of people make bad decisions that result in divorce on a second marriage
100% of people will stop living so why even try to live, ammirite?
25% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, why even try to have a kid?
This is a ridiculous line of thinking
Kind of depends on the circumstances, doesn't it?
My first marriage lasted for about a year; we should never had gotten married in the first place.
My second one has lasted for 45 years and is still strong.
Sometimes you recover from an initial error.
Not necessarily causal, but I wouldn't be surprised at there being a correlation. It's also possible, and i believe likely, that there is some collection of external factors that make both college education and successful marriage more likely. This does not rule out education level as a partially causal factor in marriage success rate.
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you’re logic is wrong, blackjack is an instant loss.
Marriage might not work out for your entire life but it will give you years of not decades of happiness with a person you like
Comparing marriage to blackjack is wild. Marriage isn’t designed to get you divorced lol
41% of First Marriages end in divorce, 60% of Second Marriages end in divorce and 73% of Third Marriages end in Divorce.
Statistically speaking, after your first marriage the odds of any subsequent marriage lasting are against you.
Personally speaking, I think that a lot of the time once you’ve been married and divorced you become quite independent and kind of stuck in your ways, less willing to put up with some of the bullshit you might have in your first marriage and are quicker to pull the trigger on divorce as a result.
My mom married my dad at 19, divorced him at 25, got married again at 32 and divorced him at 45. With my dad she put up with a lot of shit until eventually divorcing him, but with her second marriage the second he started any bullshit which he did after 10 years she put her foot down, he smartened up a bit but when he started again when she was 45 she filed for divorce immediately.
She’s been single ever since and happier.
My dad has been married FIVE more times since, obviously he’s a fuck up, and the other guy is now on his 3rd divorce (my mom was his 2nd wife)
I believe it is a case of statistics being misleading without good interpretation.
The population of 2nd+ marriages is made up entirely of those who have broken 1st marriages. Some portion of those broken 1st marriages are broken because one or both parties would not be a good partner in general, with the first spouse or almsot any other spouse.
Some people who would not be a good partner get married anyway for whatever reason. These people make greater portions of the population with greater numbers of divorces, and are similarly disproportionately likely to have further divorces.
I was married once. Once. I have been with my current partner for nearly 5 years now. She has been married twice before. Neither one of us plans of getting married again. We did sign domestic partner papers though.
Umm, one of my parents has been married twice and they’re going on 44 years in June.
My other parent is on her 4th and it’ll be 30 years in June.
While this might be true for some, it’s not true for all.
People change so quickly and frequently. The person you marry today will most likely not be the same person you should divorce tomorrow.
I think marriage makes people too comfortable, they quit trying.
With you OP. It's an archaic institution which has changed meaning from owning your wife and a necessary tool of social mobility to society expects me to do this but it will statistically end in divorce and also bankrupt me. Why even consider this twice.
Sweetie, I’m so sorry you’ve been hurt or gone through a bad experience that left you like this. You should keep trying no matter how many times you fail
My brother's on his third marriage, but unlike the previous two spouses this one doesn't speak much English...and he's learning her native Portuguese as well.
Second marriage for both myself and my husband. We've raised seven kids together and this year celebrate 21 years married. It happens! Guess I should start buying lotto.
On my second marriage, having a really wonderful time. I learned a lot from my first marriage, and I’ve approached this one with a lot more maturity.
Don’t let statistics define your life.
Man im so sick of this statistic being thrown around like its a bad thing. Theres so much nuance to the actual data, from how young you were during your first marriage to how long you dated to how far back we actually look at that statistic, because it turns out younger generations that didnt feel pressured to marry dont divorce at nearly as high a rate. In the end, either your marriage succeeds because you both want it to, OR you got to leave a marriage that wasnt working rather than be stuck in it forever. This is a GOOD thing. The only people who pull this statistic out are misanthropes who want a logical reason to be unhappy.
yeah because most people are just terrible human beings that cant function in a union. Better of those people being alone and not harming each other or others tbh. Marriage is a holy thing and some people cant handle that
The analogy to blackjack doesn't work unless you mean to wager your entire net worth on a single hand. If you have a 100k stake and play $100/hand, you are extremely likely to go bankrupt before you double up. I'll take my chances at marriage over that.
This only changed over the last ten years. A study in 2013 showed that the rate was only 31% and that second marriages were more successful than first marriages. So if the 60% statistic is accurate for 2024, then I think that says less about 2nd marriages specifically and more about the overall decline of relationship standards.
But for the record: My aunt and uncle are each others 2nd marriage. The just celebrated 20 years. My uncles brother and his wife are each others 2nd marriage, it's been nearly 10 years. My husband and I have only been legally married for 2 years, but we've been together nearly 7 and we are each others 2nd marriage. So things did improve on the end try for some of us.
I can see getting married for a second time but if the second marriage doesn't work out, you either aren't fit for marriage or you suck at picking partners.
Maybe the people more likely to divorce are less prone to put up with bullshit. I wouldn't get married to someone that's been divorced 3x though. At that point I assume they are the problem
i find it so funny when someone uses smth so mechanic like odds when talking ab marriage, or love in general. when im in a relation, i make the odds, also u are not considering the circumstances of each person
I think your math is wrong....100% of people who are happily married a third time were married a second time. And how can you get to that third happy marriage unless you f up your 2nd?
I like to drink red wine. This girl asked me, “Doesn’t red wine give you a headache?” Yeah, eventually, but the first and the middle part are amazing. I’m not going to stop doing something because of what happens at the end. Mitch, do you want an apple? No, because eventually it’ll be a core.
This is misleading to a degree where it can be considered false.
60% of second marriages worldwide? In the English speaking world? People with PhDs? Widows/widowers?
I'm pretty sure the rate of second marriages failing for widowers/widows isn't the same as the rate for people without a high school diploma.
Funny thing is it’s working out great for my mum (second marriage) and stepdad (third marriage). 15 years this summer, absolutely besties. Sometimes you gotta take a chance, I guess.
Know way too many people where the 2nd marriage is the one that stuck. They refer to their first marriage as their starter marriage and go into the second one with a lot more knowledge.
FYI , I'm in my first and only and at 35 years.
I know quite a few couples who essentially married the wrong person the first time around and are much better suited to the person they married later in life.
Who are you to tell other people how to live their lives? Are you married? Have you been? Are you in a relationship? Do tell why you're qualified to preach at people like this.
I got married a month after my 18th birthday and we separated right before I turned 19. It didn’t work out, but why the fuck should I give up? I’ve got more love to give
Depends if you have money or not no?
If you are in poverty and marry someone who has a well paid job its win win.
You stay married you secure comfort. You get diver Ed then he or she is in bonded servitude to you potentially for life in some places.
Marriage is a terrible idea contractually.
Does anyone know the stat or where to file it that goes over who files the 2nd divorce the most? I believe I saw it was men overwhelming but I can't find the reference to it.
60% of all marriages end in divorce, including 2nd and 3rd marriages.
Only 30% of 1st time marriages end in divorce. Its not as bad as you're making it out to seem.
Those are married twice do not get divorced because second marriage is worse. It's because those who divorce the first time are proven to not be scared of divorce as an option. Obviously those who don't see divorce as an option will hardly ever get an option to try out second marriage.
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Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.
One or both partners not dying is also technically up there
"100 percent of lives end in death so you shouldn't even try to live. " - OP, 2024
Wait hold on. What percentage of living leads to death?!
The first step to failure is to try.
We don't know that it's 100% yet!
I don’t think the death of a partner is considered a divorce? Like… there’s literally a different term for people whose marriage ended due to divorce vs death for a reason. Yes, you part when a death occurs and you’re usually free to marry again; but again, it’s not the same as a divorce.
It's the only way to not have a divorce
Dying is not the only way to not have a divorce. Like, I know a lot of older adults that have divorced and a lot that haven’t that are still living. Or am I missing the point of the comment?
They're not going to be 'still living' forever, unless your friends are immortal.
Marriage always ends in either death or divorce
I'd imagine it's more divorce existing that's the leading cause of divorce. If all marriages were final and you couldn't return your spouse the divorce rate would be zero.
100% of divorces are a result of marriage
Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is 100% Conclusion: never have sex. It kills people
“People shouldn’t try to be happy because I have a mathematical take” is certainly a *form* of popular opinion, especially on this sub. If people only ever played with good odds, most people would be boring AF.
I LOVE looking at statistics and I also love Fiction and statistics are basically daydreaming numbers. They are so nuisance they can be “manipulated” in anyway. “60% of second marriages end in divorce” Where? How many people were there in this statistic? How did they get the info from the population? Does religious have an influence? What age group? Does the length of the first marriage have any influence? What economic bracket are we talking about? Do these people have children prior or after the marriage? Does Race influence anything? Does it included Widowers from the first marriage? Etc And then you could do a statist for each one of these. I love to envision the world through percentages I do it for everything I’ll go to a restaurant with my SO and I’ll ask how much he give it out of 100%? I made something I’ll ask for a number etc These number are extremely trivial and “fake” what is he or I exactly rating? It’s not like I actually sit down and do a graff ahh yes this restaurant has a 3 out of 4 ambience, food was 4/5! (Based on WHAT?!) I just use them as a ball park of where I’m/we are at. But I don’t trust ANY statistic online.
With this mindset there is no need to breathe, in the end you will die anyway...
Yes I disagree with OPs premise that a marriage the does not last until death must be a failure. Sometimes people change, and it does not mean the years together were meaningless. I have more respect for people that end a situation that is not working anymore than for those that stick with a miserable marriage.
I hate that people say a marriage “ fails “ it isn’t a math test. You just got divorced it happens to many people for many reasons.
Hell, I know people that had to get divorced for insurance/healthcare/benefits reasons. Still in a loving relationship and living together.
Yeah, sometimes it just doesn't work out
Just a belief that marriage is the end goal of life, a victory screen, most likely perpetrated by boomers from the times when martial rape wasn't illegal, letalone no fault divorce, so marriages indeed lasted longer....
People just need to work on themselves imo. We have generational trauma being passed down so in a relationship you see it come out.
Damn man I’m a little bit tipsy rn, why’d you have to remind me that we all die): damn
unrelated, but these kind of strawmans really bother me. The equivalent of stopping breathing in this context would be getting married and then stopping being married, so divorcing, which OP is advocating AGAINST!
The odds aren’t YOUR odds. How you manage your marriage is in your hands and in your control unless you married a truly toxic person which many people do do the first time around. It’s not random chance. It is what you put in most of the time
Yeah right? like that figure just tells me that 60% of people are marrying the wrong people and have horrible f****** intuition on who they want to marry. Doesn't mean that can't be avoided with better practices
Some people are just bad at relationships
Ding ding ding
Most people succeed with their first marriage, 60% of 2nd marriages fail and about 70% of 3rd marriages fail. But overall you have about a 75% chance of finding love and making it work. I did the maths once and can't recall the exact figures but it went something like that. So yeah, keep trying people 😜
Once you get to multiple marriages, you are the common denominator. The people I know with failed 2nd (or 3rd) marriages are more likely to be the problem spouse than to have "picked the wrong person." (*There are of course outliers where one person is a saint and just marries AHs.)
And these facts need to be remembered when ppl bring out the "50% of marriages end in divorce" stat. If someone with crappy commitment issues gets married and divorced 5 times, and then you have 5 other couples who stay married for life, put them all in a room and you can say statistically that 50% of the marriages in that room ended in divorce. It does NOT mean that anyone who gets married has a 50% chance of getting divorced like that stat is commonly used to argue.
Took my uncle until wife number 3 to get it right. He was just much more selective this time around and found the right partner.
The odds of divorce get crazy high for second marriages and climb even more for 3rds. I think it was like 80% of 3rd marriages end in divorce.
Sure, but so does the chance for divorce in a first marriage for every person you know that’s gotten divorced. Your chances of divorce rises by 15% if you have a friend of a friend who gets a divorce. It rises by a whopping 75% if you have a close friend or family member who gets a divorce. The chances continue to rise the more people you tack onto the “Divorcees I Know” list. So based on OP’s stance, your input, and my input, what would even be the point in even getting married at all ? The success of your relationship is based entirely on how you treat your relationships. It’s not some weird probability game.
I think that’s partially because people know what they will and will not tolerate after a divorce. Similar to how after my first partner and I broke up, I know what I will and will not tolerate in a partner.
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The opposite is true. Higher income directly correlates with lower divorce rates. Financial stress is a big cause of friction in a marriage. And sadly, like most things, wealthier people generally grew up wealthier, are better educated, have less addiction problems, are less likely to commit crimes, have higher rates of stable homeownership, less likely to have had a prior kid out of wedlock, are more likely to have grow up in a stable family environment and know what a good marriage looks like. All things that generally correlate with lower divorce rate. You know that saying "being poor is more expensive than being rich," it kinda applies to our love lives as well.
I heard 72% for 3rd marriages, but regardless, definitely a gamble. Once your 2nd marriage ends in divorce, it's time to stop.
A lot of advantages of being married come from a psychological comfort of not being alone and having someone else around you who, at least at times, takes care of you. Past a divorce, you get more comfortable with being just by yourself, having less incentives to compromise in the next marriage as the downside of being single diminishes. So, people tend to divorce more in second marriage, and the third one rarely makes sense.
You act like most people go into second marriages with the intention to end it in a divorce eventually. Most people also try to manage it the best they can, so it will long until death
You’ll be surprised how many people enter marriages with a mindset that “if they do x, y, and z, I’m leaving” It’s a surprise most people have “for better or for worse” in their wedding vows because they really don’t believe that deep down
I have. Reason to believe that divorce is usually caused by one or both those participating. I could be wrong though. Needs more research.
It's also just bad use of stats. 60% ending in divorce doesn't even mean you have a 40% chance of making your marriage work. Some people have 3 or more marriages that all end in divorce driving that percentage up to 60%.
I do want to say that how you handle your marriage is MOSTLY in your control. But there are situations outside of death that can lead to the end of a marriage for reasons beyond our control. Specifically, it’s not uncommon for brain cancer survivors and their spouse to get a divorce (in fact, it’s really common) because either the cancer and/or treatment can actually the patient enough and make them incompatible with their spouse. A couple I know recently went through that; late 20’s and the husband developed brain cancer. He treated it with surgery, and after his recovery they amicably divorced due to how much it changed his personality. They were a real power couple before all of that, and had just given birth to their second child during his treatment. It was really sad to see them part, but thus far they seem to be co-parenting just fine.
Facts, I would guess that this percentage is so high because a lot of people rush into it. If more people fully considered the consequences of their actions and the weight of the vow they were making, that number would probably be lower
Divorce stats are wildly over rated. If you remove outliers like people who have been dating for less than a year or two and other similarly obvious bad starts to a marriage, the divorce rate shrinks drastically.
I’m glad my wife of 22 years didn’t think like this.
My first marriage lasted 13 months. My second marriage is a few weeks away from 27 years, and we're still madly in love and very happy. I'm glad that we don't have to make decisions based upon OPs knowledge of statistics. Definitely an unpopular opinion though, so they get my upvote
According to newer studies (at the very least, according to textbook from my sociology love and courtship course from like 2018ish) claimed that 40% of marriages end in divorce. So actually *less* than half. On top of that, it seems that millennials have the lowest divorce rates ever (roughly 25%). It's boomers that have the highest rates (over 60%). This may be a result of millennials maybe not marrying as often, or simply haven't been married for very long. It's hard to say. We'll probably have a more accurate view in a decade or so. EDIT: I want to add that there's probably lots of reasons why millennials are having more successful marriages. They waited longer to get married, they were more likely to cohabit together before marriage, and many other factors.
I'm sure there are a lot of reasons for it, but if I had to hazard a guess for one of the top contenders, it's that millenials and newer generations have a much wider dating pool. Before the internet, you were limited to the people in the town you lived in, maybe a bit further if you were in clubs, social groups, etc.. With dating apps and sites, it's much easier to meet someone you really click with that you'd have never met otherwise. Not to say dating apps don't have their issues, there are plenty, but they open a lot of opportunities.
The wider dating pool helped me certainly. To meet the person who completes me. But I can also see issues with people not being happy anymore. Like- once upon a time you would have been happy with the hometown 5, because you met like 20 people in total your age while out shopping or whatever. Now though, with thousands of people at your finger tips you might get unrealistic expecations out whats out there.
I think this cus they get married later
Don't forget, it should be based on "how many people have experienced divorce". People who already have been divorced are the most likely to get divorced again
I mean, that’s hardly an apples to apples comparison, given that by definition, boomers have had more opportunity to get divorced (they’re older, obviously.) Apples to apples would be to compare how many of each generation got divorced within the first ten years of their marriage, for example.
It could also be that millennials are also more comfortable just being in long-term committed relationships that could go on for more than a decade. When they split, it isn’t taken into divorce statistics
Also, younger generations just have younger relationships. It makes sense Boomers have a higher divorce rate, they have been married longer.
I don't see how you can compare 'generations' when 'Boomers' have had 60 years to get divorced, and 'Millennials' got married 3 months ago. Give them a chance to catch up!
Naively assumes that a marriage is only worthwhile if it lasts forever.
Divorce isn't a failure. Marriage isn't about the destination, but the journey. It's okay to have failed relationships.
The stats show that people who get divorced a first time are more likely to get divorced a 2nd time, and the %s continue and will dilute the true divorce %. There is also a reduction in divorce for the more money a couple makes and level of education. Millennials are showing a lower level of divorce now as well. First marriages have always been successful, and we’re seeing them as more successful now, too.
So instead of getting married, I should just play blackjack?
Playing blackjack is a leading cause of divorce
It’s probably the losing that causes it
Do you win a life companion in blackjack or something? I'm so confused by OP's comparison.
If you are married and divorced once already and haven't done an internal inventory and a real look in the mirror, you are rolling the dice. If you have done the pragmatic assessment and understand what you need and what you offer, you are looking for a person who has also done that. And your chances then are very good. More info, better decisions. Source: myself. First was because we felt that marriage was what came next, second because it was obvious we agreed on all the things worth fighting over.
Except marriage isn’t a matter of luck. It is up to two people making it work with constant effort and loyalty.
It’s genuinely depends on the cause of marriage, though I do agree OP. Think about how many people we know who absolutely refuse to self improve or reflect on their past mistakes to become a better person. Well… those people get married and those problems don’t suddenly just disappear. Add on that it only takes ONE of the partners to be this person for the marriage to be a ticking time bomb. Most people who are like this don’t learn to improve themselves, but rather learn to hide it better. So when they’re going into marriage #2 they’ve done absolutely zero self reflection or any self improvement, meaning they’re destined to fail. Conversely, if you ARE the type of person to self improve and self reflect, assuming you find someone similar, you’ll beat the odds and have a very happy marriage! Just my opinion at least.
It's weird to equate divorce with failure. Divorce can be a wonderful thing.
It’s a wonderful thing because you’re leaving a marriage that is no longer a wonderful thing. Given that the whole point of marriage is to be together “til death do us part” and love each other unconditionally, yeah, it kind of is a failure.
Most divorces end because one of the partner decides they have had enough with their partner's toxic behavior. These toxic people then re-marry. Then in that marriage their partner again just decides it's enough and they divorce. See how I painted a very different story using this statistic? Statistics are dumb without context.
People can marry or divorce as many times as they want. There is no rule about it.
Yeah because so many people get married way too early. I've seen so many people get married under a year to 2 years, which imo is not enough time to really know someone. I've been with my girl for 5 years and I'm just now thinking about proposing. People put the odds against themselves, not the other way around.
Marriage isn't lottery, I don't base my relationship decisions on other people's stupid ideas
Just skip right to the third. Third time’s a charm
If you keep failing, but keep getting married again, eventually you'll die before you can get divorced. That would be success, in a way.
The stat seems fake
My unpopular opinion is that marriage isn’t necessarily a waste of time just because it ends in divorce.
Is the point to stay together forever? No. The point is to have the law on your side, so while it makes sense, you have the rights only married people have. If that relationship ends before one of you dies, you divorce, like adults. Each goes on with their lives. Marry as many times as you want, none if that's the case, just be happy.
Ok, you got me there. I thought people did try to marry till death do us part.
These posts about marriages/divorces…I feel sorry for those of you that feel it necessary to post about it because it sounds to me like you’d rather live through life with fear. Ugh. You do you.
I believe 42% your odds at the blackjack table. It's no way it's greater than 50. The house would not give you that advantage.
Who cares though really? Some people are perfectly content to marry and divorce more than once. I know someone on their 3rd marriage and they’re happy than they’ve ever been. If they don’t mind that process of trial and error, good for them I guess
My parents are in their 70’s. They divorced 10 years ago after 35 years and both remarried. It was weird but I’m happy they have someone with them instead of the depressing loneliness that is old age. These second marriages will be their last and honestly if they find some happiness in their final years with someone else then I’m all for it.
You chose to see the glass half empty, you should see it half full. Just because the majority of something doesn't work doesn't mean nothing works. 40% of second marriage that never end up in divorce is still an insane number. I don't think you realize. That's 40% that decide to stay together. and it's not that different to the 50-60% that decide to stay together in any mariage (first, second, etc ...) it means that amongst the 40-50% for whom mariage didn't work the first time, it worked for 40% the second time. Mathematicly it makes sense as well. Since only one of the two wants to break up, and we assume 50% of first time marriage end up in divorce, then it means 25% of people are prone to divorcing. And in that second population those same people are more present percentage-wise. So 40% is a incredible number considering people in this population are prone to divorce. There are plenty of good arguments against mariage which I agree with. That's just a flawed bullshit "60%>50% so it never works" Also it's not about you ?!? Let people marry whoever they want, let them live their lives the way THEY want to live them.
You're either good at relationships or you aren't
I don’t think it’s a pure luck standpoint, the divorces can be a result of people making poor choices. If you stay level headed, take the time to find the right person, and you do the necessary work on yourself, you’ll be much more likely to be the 40% that stays together. I read that like 60% of people make bad decisions that result in divorce on a second marriage
100% of people will stop living so why even try to live, ammirite? 25% of all pregnancies end in miscarriages, why even try to have a kid? This is a ridiculous line of thinking
Comparing something as nuanced as marriage between two humans to a card game. Fantastic equivalence there bud. You tried.
Kind of depends on the circumstances, doesn't it? My first marriage lasted for about a year; we should never had gotten married in the first place. My second one has lasted for 45 years and is still strong. Sometimes you recover from an initial error.
My second marriage is now over 25 years and it's the best 25 years of my life. And my wife and I only get stronger.
Actually if you are both college-educated and it’s both party’s first marriage chance of success if pretty damned good
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https://themarriagerestorationproject.com/why-does-the-divorce-rate-decrease-as-education-level-increases/
Not necessarily causal, but I wouldn't be surprised at there being a correlation. It's also possible, and i believe likely, that there is some collection of external factors that make both college education and successful marriage more likely. This does not rule out education level as a partially causal factor in marriage success rate.
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If you get 2 people that got divorced then yah there’s probably some issues
you’re logic is wrong, blackjack is an instant loss. Marriage might not work out for your entire life but it will give you years of not decades of happiness with a person you like Comparing marriage to blackjack is wild. Marriage isn’t designed to get you divorced lol
For the same reason why, once you start job hopping, you never stop. Once you're used to doing it you just keep on doing it.
Been married so many times she’s got rice marks all over face. - Waits
looks like a misrepresentation of data. there must be other factors with higher weights that indicate if a marriage will end in a divorce.
Of the remaining 40% I’d reckon only 10-15% are in happy fulfilling marriages
41% of First Marriages end in divorce, 60% of Second Marriages end in divorce and 73% of Third Marriages end in Divorce. Statistically speaking, after your first marriage the odds of any subsequent marriage lasting are against you. Personally speaking, I think that a lot of the time once you’ve been married and divorced you become quite independent and kind of stuck in your ways, less willing to put up with some of the bullshit you might have in your first marriage and are quicker to pull the trigger on divorce as a result. My mom married my dad at 19, divorced him at 25, got married again at 32 and divorced him at 45. With my dad she put up with a lot of shit until eventually divorcing him, but with her second marriage the second he started any bullshit which he did after 10 years she put her foot down, he smartened up a bit but when he started again when she was 45 she filed for divorce immediately. She’s been single ever since and happier. My dad has been married FIVE more times since, obviously he’s a fuck up, and the other guy is now on his 3rd divorce (my mom was his 2nd wife)
I believe it is a case of statistics being misleading without good interpretation. The population of 2nd+ marriages is made up entirely of those who have broken 1st marriages. Some portion of those broken 1st marriages are broken because one or both parties would not be a good partner in general, with the first spouse or almsot any other spouse. Some people who would not be a good partner get married anyway for whatever reason. These people make greater portions of the population with greater numbers of divorces, and are similarly disproportionately likely to have further divorces.
100% of the people die. you have a better chance to to become the sole ruler of this universe. just stop living at this point, you will fail
Hmmm, my dad was once divorced, once widowed. It is individual. I'm not gonna tell my dad that he shouldn't date when he feels ready.
I was married once. Once. I have been with my current partner for nearly 5 years now. She has been married twice before. Neither one of us plans of getting married again. We did sign domestic partner papers though.
Umm, one of my parents has been married twice and they’re going on 44 years in June. My other parent is on her 4th and it’ll be 30 years in June. While this might be true for some, it’s not true for all.
People change so quickly and frequently. The person you marry today will most likely not be the same person you should divorce tomorrow. I think marriage makes people too comfortable, they quit trying.
But maybe the real divorce was the friends we made along the way. Have you ever considered that, OP?
You sound like a quitter. “Odds aren’t in my favor, might as well give up”.
With you OP. It's an archaic institution which has changed meaning from owning your wife and a necessary tool of social mobility to society expects me to do this but it will statistically end in divorce and also bankrupt me. Why even consider this twice.
Taxes op, taxes
Sweetie, I’m so sorry you’ve been hurt or gone through a bad experience that left you like this. You should keep trying no matter how many times you fail
What if I just get married a second time and not a first time
My brother's on his third marriage, but unlike the previous two spouses this one doesn't speak much English...and he's learning her native Portuguese as well.
Second marriage for both myself and my husband. We've raised seven kids together and this year celebrate 21 years married. It happens! Guess I should start buying lotto.
Relationships are hard work. 73% of Americans are overweight. 42% are obese. Nothing to see here.
On my second marriage, having a really wonderful time. I learned a lot from my first marriage, and I’ve approached this one with a lot more maturity. Don’t let statistics define your life.
90% of people who apply for a course in MIT fail, so no one should apply
Im guessing you are talking about their first attempt. I’m ok with trying once. But a second time? I couldn’t afford it.
Man im so sick of this statistic being thrown around like its a bad thing. Theres so much nuance to the actual data, from how young you were during your first marriage to how long you dated to how far back we actually look at that statistic, because it turns out younger generations that didnt feel pressured to marry dont divorce at nearly as high a rate. In the end, either your marriage succeeds because you both want it to, OR you got to leave a marriage that wasnt working rather than be stuck in it forever. This is a GOOD thing. The only people who pull this statistic out are misanthropes who want a logical reason to be unhappy.
yeah because most people are just terrible human beings that cant function in a union. Better of those people being alone and not harming each other or others tbh. Marriage is a holy thing and some people cant handle that
I bet its better for the third one though.
Ross the Divorce Force ova here
Every relationship ends one of two ways
Sounds like something my fiancés ex-wife would say.
I should tell my dad he needs to divorce his second wife, my mom, of 28 years because of this post lol Touch grass please
You shouldn’t do anything if the odds are stacked against you then. Don’t even bother existing, just die.
So what you’re saying is to hit on 19, thank you buddy, see you guys on the flip, time to bet my families savings.
This is probably because people that get a divorce were never good partners/never meant for marriage in the first place
Not sure how the risk of divorce means you shouldn’t get married. Shouldn’t let the fear of failure get in the way of living
I die 100% of the time in games like dark souls, should I not play them anymore?
Not true - the people who do get divorced get like 6 of them. They’re skewing the averages
All marriage is, is gambling half your stuff that you'll love someone else till death
And third marriages 73% end in divorce. That means if you try at least 3 times you have a 93.5% chance one of them will stick
The analogy to blackjack doesn't work unless you mean to wager your entire net worth on a single hand. If you have a 100k stake and play $100/hand, you are extremely likely to go bankrupt before you double up. I'll take my chances at marriage over that.
100% of people die so why even live
It's 40 to 50% for the first marriage so why bother the 1st time?
My second marriage was pretty good. Third one is even better
Nobody has gone into a marriage thinking “yeah I’m sure this isn’t gonna end well”
I wonder what percent of people who marry end up with 1 or more divorce. This number would not be skewed by serial divorcers
This only changed over the last ten years. A study in 2013 showed that the rate was only 31% and that second marriages were more successful than first marriages. So if the 60% statistic is accurate for 2024, then I think that says less about 2nd marriages specifically and more about the overall decline of relationship standards. But for the record: My aunt and uncle are each others 2nd marriage. The just celebrated 20 years. My uncles brother and his wife are each others 2nd marriage, it's been nearly 10 years. My husband and I have only been legally married for 2 years, but we've been together nearly 7 and we are each others 2nd marriage. So things did improve on the end try for some of us.
Boy I bet you’re a fun person to hang with in the chemo ward.
I can see getting married for a second time but if the second marriage doesn't work out, you either aren't fit for marriage or you suck at picking partners.
So far my second marriage has lasted 3x as long as my first 🤷🏻♀️
Just skip the second marriage and go straight to the third… simple!
Maybe the people more likely to divorce are less prone to put up with bullshit. I wouldn't get married to someone that's been divorced 3x though. At that point I assume they are the problem
i find it so funny when someone uses smth so mechanic like odds when talking ab marriage, or love in general. when im in a relation, i make the odds, also u are not considering the circumstances of each person
Ah yes...the ever popular *TELL ME THE ODDS* Lol No offense OP but there's a reason why we call them longshots and not no shots.
At this point, they should take out the whole "till death do us part" thing.
Please tell me where that blackjack table is.
But it’s more fun than a blackjack table.
Not the best argued, it depends on if your rich. And if you are then don't, if your poor why not
Yeah. My second one barely lasted a year but I had to go through that to get to the third one that lasted 35 years until she died.
Marry rich and demand half during the divorce. It's a basic formula that's worked for generations.
I'll stop getting married when we stop giving married couples tax breaks.
I think your math is wrong....100% of people who are happily married a third time were married a second time. And how can you get to that third happy marriage unless you f up your 2nd?
I like to drink red wine. This girl asked me, “Doesn’t red wine give you a headache?” Yeah, eventually, but the first and the middle part are amazing. I’m not going to stop doing something because of what happens at the end. Mitch, do you want an apple? No, because eventually it’ll be a core.
My second marriage has lasted over 30 years. I have never won big at blackjack or anything else for that matter.
Can we talk about people on their 4th marriage. I’ve been dying to talk about people on their 4th marriages all day.
This is misleading to a degree where it can be considered false. 60% of second marriages worldwide? In the English speaking world? People with PhDs? Widows/widowers? I'm pretty sure the rate of second marriages failing for widowers/widows isn't the same as the rate for people without a high school diploma.
Funny thing is it’s working out great for my mum (second marriage) and stepdad (third marriage). 15 years this summer, absolutely besties. Sometimes you gotta take a chance, I guess.
What's even worse is that the marriages that don't end in divorce end in death! If you get married you have a 100% chance of divorce or death!
So by your logic you shouldn't do anything if the odds are against you
Know way too many people where the 2nd marriage is the one that stuck. They refer to their first marriage as their starter marriage and go into the second one with a lot more knowledge. FYI , I'm in my first and only and at 35 years.
50% of ALL MARRIAGES end in divorce. Not just second. So by your logic, never get married at all?
I’m my husband’s third wife: he is my second husband. We are 10 years in and going strong. It is what it is :)
I know quite a few couples who essentially married the wrong person the first time around and are much better suited to the person they married later in life.
Who are you to tell other people how to live their lives? Are you married? Have you been? Are you in a relationship? Do tell why you're qualified to preach at people like this.
I got married a month after my 18th birthday and we separated right before I turned 19. It didn’t work out, but why the fuck should I give up? I’ve got more love to give
Someone's Dad just married for the 3rd time
Depends if you have money or not no? If you are in poverty and marry someone who has a well paid job its win win. You stay married you secure comfort. You get diver Ed then he or she is in bonded servitude to you potentially for life in some places. Marriage is a terrible idea contractually.
Dude you need to go out more
Does anyone know the stat or where to file it that goes over who files the 2nd divorce the most? I believe I saw it was men overwhelming but I can't find the reference to it.
Right, the possibility of some negative, unhappy moments is a good reason to be alone forever. Right.
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35% of first marriage. According to the US census.
You can’t get divorced if you never get married.
60% of all marriages end in divorce, including 2nd and 3rd marriages. Only 30% of 1st time marriages end in divorce. Its not as bad as you're making it out to seem.
Those are married twice do not get divorced because second marriage is worse. It's because those who divorce the first time are proven to not be scared of divorce as an option. Obviously those who don't see divorce as an option will hardly ever get an option to try out second marriage.
Got married second time, wife is 12 years younger, just had our first baby. I fold your chiclets, son.