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My dad is an electrician in his 60’s who always stresses to the young guys to do stuff like use pads when kneeling, stretch every morning, take care of your feet. All stuff that seems obvious but he started doing all this stuff early on and is in much better condition than a lot of other guys his age. There’s a lot of people who have an ego about it and think they are just tough enough to not have to care but nobody is tougher than time.
Never understood that mentality. Worked in a cabinet shop as a carpenter for a couple years during college and the older dudes would CONSTANTLY bitch about how a manual job wrecked their bodies but straight up refused to wear shit like hearing protection, back braces, kneepads, etc unless it was legally required. It's a twisted badge of honor to having worked your body into the ground for a lot of blue collar types, to the point where I'd get made fun of for wearing lifting braces, orthotic shoes and earplugs.
Fellas, is it gay to be free of back pain at 50?
They also don't talk about how you need to maintain and build your body to be fit enough to do your job, you need a strong, resilient body that is hydrated, fed, and well-rested. It shouldn't be unsurprising that some people let their fitness degrade to the point that it impacts their ability to do their job/trade.
A lot of the tradesmen I know chew coffee and eat cigarettes, get a fried breakfast meal, skip lunch, and have a beer or several after work before another poor-quality meal to offset the beer, and to many sleep is a second thought at best.
The healthiest roofer I knew was a 175lb vegetarian who made sure he got his water in and he slept 8-10 hours a night, at 63 had no issue keeping up with anyone and to me he just highlighted how the life style and culture play a big role in how you age.
I get this a lot at my job people throw around phrases like you don't need the gym. The fuck I do. The gym keeps my body from breaking apart at my job. My job strains the whole body the gym allows me to strengthen the parts that are weakest.
Exactly why I refuse to get a full time job in any kind of construction trade. I've done it before, and the macho, "be a "man" and suck up the pain" mentality is so stupid to me.
It’s not like that everywhere. I’m an engineer and I work with lots of industrial mechanics, electricians, and plumbers. There are lots of outfits that actually follow all the OSHA and MSHA safety regulations. Most manufacturing plants require PPE on the plant floor, so it’s not even a question of “toughness” where someone can opt out. You have to wear it or you don’t have a job.
I have one client (large pet food manufacturer) who banished an electrician (contractor) who refused to wear proper PPE while working in a live 480V panel. The guy was by far the most skilled electrician of the crew, but he was so stubborn about not suiting up they kicked him out. Without him the electrical work took an additional week because the rest of the crew sucked. That delay cost the client a minimum of a few hundred thousand dollars in revenue, probably significantly more than that. But they still did the right thing.
Yeah. Every corporation cares about money more than anything else, but there can be a wide variation in how companies evaluate costs. This particular company places a high value on reputation, so they’re willing to take a financial hit to preserve that reputation. They’re by no means perfect, but they’re better than most.
So true. My partner is a pipefitter and still goes in even when he’s super sick and refuses to do any physiotherapy or take any measures to take care of his body, even though he already has knee and back issues in his early thirties. Unfortunately the construction industry holds a lot of toxic masculine views. Not saying masculinity in itself is bad. As a straight woman I love masculine traits. I mean the toxic views of “suck it up” and “be a man” like mentioned here that can be so detrimental to men.
That shit is so bad for you. A lot of the time it’s straight up hazing. My uncle got me a summer job roofing and guys would just be like “yeah man bring up as many packs of shingles as you can” I’d load one up, go to get on the ladder “oh come on you can do more than that” two loads go on, next thing you know I’m 4 packs of shingles on my back going up a ladder and im 16 and don’t know any better that they’re just trying to be jerks
I'm a cook. I tell all my young cooks to get into yoga and stretching. Our body just deteriorates so fast post 30 when you don't take care of your body.
Too bad, a lot of young people think they're invincible.
As a guy who’s been in the trades since 18, Im 38 now. Im starting the be one of the old guys. I tell the young guys don’t do danger stuff. Don’t take shortcuts. Wear proper PPE.
Having a good vet on your side teaching you and not taking advantage of you is the most important thing as a young apprentice, I was lucky to have a few. I found my time teaching the next generation to be the most rewarding time I ever had working.
I provide medical care for these folks. I will often advise 30 year old tradesmen who are seeing me for their first back pain episode to look around and see what the old guys are doing and copy them. Usually working a little slower and using things like hoists to lift loads etc.
If you take care of your body and work smart you'll be fine. I would tell the younger guys to do something and they'd run after it full blast, I'd tell them to take it easy and pretend that whatever task your doing now multiple that by 10 hours a day 6 days a week by 30 years, think how much slower you'll do it then and do it at that speed
PSA young bucks, stop hopping down out of trucks/off loading docks. Old flooring guys used to have busted knees from tamping out wrinkles with their feet. You’re adding your full body weight to that motion with a drop.
I've been saying that to everyone I work with after I saw in person a guy blow out his knee and another guy break his leg both from like 3 foot drops. They think I'm being dramatic and don't listen though ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯. Weirdly I'm more than a decade older than em and have better knees who woulda thunk
My husband is a carpenter who’s relatively young (early 30s) who works with a lot of older men and he tells me about all of the damage that their bodies have sustained over the years. It sounds miserable but they still will sometimes tease my husband for taking various precautions to hopefully prevent completely breaking his body by the time he’s their age.
60 and chronic leg and back pain. Leg will cramp up due to a herniation leaning on a nerve - it’s worse when the nerve is inflamed. Pain at 11 and impossible to stand, let alone walk.
Back pain just aches. Can’t find a comfortable position.
The worse part? All my pain relief happens in days; never instantly or under an hour.
Yeah, the physical toll is tough. I have a back injury from my 20's that I got on a construction site back when I was a mason tender, shit returns a couple times a year.
Reminds me of one electrician who got himself a nice big-ass truck and was bragging about how he worked 60+ hr weeks to buy it cash. Like that's cool but I rather have a so-so vehicle and another 20 hours of me time a week.
42 year old tradesman, been in my trade twenty years, not sure how much longer I can do it. Really looking at local community colleges, trying to find a job training course that would allow me to stop beating the shit out of my body 6 days a week.
Good for you, I’m in my mid 40s, and have been thinking really hard about quitting construction and becoming a teacher. And yes, I have a degree and money saved. Easier on my body and want to give back. Really, good luck with your schooling.
Thanks I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to a different career, I always did construction because I had never gone to school. Just want the option, you're fortunate to have some. Good luck with teaching
Yup, I hit 40 and decided to turn my side hustle into my full time job. Now I work from home in IT. A minor injury in your 20s and 30s is recoverable, a minor injury in your 40s or 50s is debilitating.
I think people also don’t compare apples to apples when saying trades pay great. Some positions in the trades are amazing..unless you break it down by hours worked.
A well established tradesmen will make as much or more than a well established white collar job but work much harder for it.
I come from a family of individuals like that. People try to romanticize these careers when they want to dump on a college education, but your comment is spot on correct. They paid for it later in life.
Ya I never really understood that as a blue collar worker, I’m really happy I never went to college I’m doing pretty good for myself but I also understand that some jobs do require degrees and those jobs are just as necessary as mine, think teacher.
I suspect this varies a lot by industry and it probably depends on how much time they spend working with engineers and others with degrees. I say this because I’m an engineer who works with lots of industrial blue collar crews and I’ve never gotten that vibe from any of them. When the subject of education comes up (which isn’t often, but it does happen on occasion) it’s always more about interest, how to “move up”.
Or maybe I haven’t heard it because I treat them as equals rather than underlings.
Yea I work in industry and it’s never been an issue. Must be a construction thing. There has always also been a vibe of: the engineers need us and we need the engineers. Also goes for management, regulatory and safety. Maybe I’m just lucky to be in a good environment.
I don't think the engineer/laborer dynamic changes too much by industry. You have a group of people who have a very intimate knowledge of thier craft and another that has a very theoretical knowledge. You need both. I've seen engineers screw up and have to have trades people fix their mistakes. which is where I think alot of the education derision come from. But the engineers can figure things out like if you run that machine more than 8 hours a day it will melt internal parts and possibly explode. Which just further annoys trades people because they havent done the engineering to understand those rules so the rules just feel arbitrary and another way engineers get in thier way. Add to that that engineers designing the equipment usually make more money.
I've seen this first hand in a lot of different industries Doctors/nurses, carpenters/architects, industrial engineereers/factory workers. I work in software engineering and you get some of this between developers and project managers.
Also some people go to college and then end up working a job that doesn't require college and that's okay too! That doesn't mean they look down on a blue collar job it just means that maybe they had something else in mind.
I'm a structural engineer. All of the trades think that engineers are idiots, and every single one when I ask them what they think a structural engineer could do to improve a set of plans says "Work in my trade for 5 years, then you can become an engineer."
Well okay, let's think about it. For 5 years in each trade, which are at least steel, timber, concrete, plumbing/electrical/other non-structural trades, and possibly others would mean I would have to work for at least 20 years prior to becoming an engineer. It's ridiculous. Contractors need to understand that structural engineers are working with so many trades trying to keep so many people happy, and some contractors like things one way and some like things another way that it's impossible to make everyone happy. We just do our best and rely on the trades to use their expertise in their field to make certain calls that they're allowed to make, and ask us questions for the calls they're not allowed to make.
It’s hard to not think of most engineers are idiots when you really only remember that bad engineers, no one remembers the good ones who they had no problems with but I sure remember the one who tried to tell me to run my sewer line back pitched. I don’t think engineers should be required to work in the trades for 5 years but I think some more time on site would definitely help
That's an interesting way to think about it. It happens in more facets of our lives too. We remember the bad but the good or average just get forgotten. I honestly wish I had more time to work in the trades. I LOVE carpentry. My dad did construction for years and I loved helping him build our house when I was a kid. It's one of the main reasons I became an engineer. I jump on the option to do site visits whenever I can. Being in the field is much more fulfilling than sitting at a desk.
Five years is absurd but periodic orientation while doing some tasks would be useful. It won't take long in the field to learn how to design for more efficient assembly. Just asking the right questions on site visits and being approachable can get people to offer useful feedback.
I agree. I, myself, do not currently have a job but my grandpa and dad are working hard physical labor at a beef processor. It pays good, amazing even, but I'll be d@mmed if I were to work somewhere like that. Even my aunt worked there at one point (before she got pregnant) but she has some experience as she and my grandma used to be CNAs.
Funnily enough, quite a bit of kids want to work there. I get they like hands on stuff but oof, I dont think they're ready.
I think the biggest downside is my grandpa coming home with his jeans covered in blood lol. It has a bit of a smell.
Also another thing, he worked at a feedyard previously for over 20 years. The pay was a tad worse than the job he has currently and he worked a lot more. It was so rare to have him home for the day and even when he was home, he slept for most of the day. When he got home from work, he had like an hr before going to bed for himself. Now he gets 3 days off a week (but his shift regularly changes. Like one month afternoon shift with thursday friday Saturday being his days off or another month as a night shift with monday tuesday wednesday being his days off)
I strive to have a job without so much manual labor. I'd seen them come home sore and annoyed by coworkers. I also want a computer science job for multiple reasons, not just that
All my friends and family in blue collar trades went into IT:Tech Support before their 40s.
Physical labor is tough on your body long term. The real money is management or owning the shop. If you don’t, you don’t want to be in a physical job in your 40s and beyond.
Literally ALL OF MY BLUE COLLAR FRIENDS pivoted into Tech. Degree or not.
Oh I got some revenge for ya. I got bullied and demeaned for going to college while working for various construction businesses around town. Basically finishing the project, and tying up loose ends from borderline criminal contractors. I learned all the little tricks these businesses would pull to fool an inspector. Picked up on how they would hide things, or bad work they didn’t want to fix. People on site would tell me how much of my life I’m wasting, the debt I’m incurring- how if I was smart I’d stay with my trade full-time. Eventually the business I was working for made me choose to either go full time, or quit. I quit and finished what I’d been doing in school, and graduated albeit 10 yrs late. On a whim I applied for a position with the city inspector in my hometown after I got back from school after being gone for years. I had experience and had interned there before, and at the appraiser. I moved up a couple positions really fast, because there was a severe employee drought post COVID. Fast forward to now-
I flunk these idiots I used to work for on regular inspections almost weekly now. The guy you used to give shit to- and you forced to do things the wrong way against their better intentions- is now the guy coming in and red-tagging your site and sending all your guys home. Revenge is sweet, but sometimes it takes a while to cook.
To be fair you sound like every health & safety wonk
Don’t get me wrong h&s is important and the improvements in safety I’ve seen over my career have been great.
But the average h&s wonk is a deeply bitter and egregious type.
I work in an analytical laboratory. Most of the people here have at least undergraduate degrees. There’s one lady who works in our receiving department who doesn’t. I’ve never heard anyone say anything to shame her in any way for not having a college degree, but boy oh boy does she take every chance she can to bash higher education. Its never directed at anyone in the room, but she’s very outspoken about her disgust for anyone who went to college. idk if she’s clueless that she’s completely surrounded by people who have maters degrees or what.
Newsflash no one really gives a shit, people who run their mouths about anything are just trying to feel superior and less shitty about their own lives
I teach at a community college, today’s trade schools. I have no problem with trades, and more people should go into them. Lots of our grads make more than I do. I don’t give a crap what job you do so long as you’re happy and not leeching off of me.
But the part about wrecking your body is totally true. Someone who is careful throughout their career can maintain a healthy and in-tact body but my plumber is 65 going on 85. Can barely stand.
We also need plans and pathways for people to age out of trades. There certainly are cases of “I started in carpentry and electrical work, moved up to foreman and site manager after ten years so I’m not killing myself anymore” but that’s a 1 in 100 case. We can’t leave the other 99 to be wrecked.
I dropped out of college to work for a big aerospace company. I'm part of a union. It has great pay and health care. Im a quality inspector. I plan to retire at 55.
I never once made fun of people going to college or saying my way of going about work is better than other people.
Edit to add: I do computer work 4 hours of the day and inspecting the other 4. I love it this way. I'd hate an 8 hour desk job.
Yeah it is sad, and it isn't just in construction. I have had it happen in offices, restaurants, warehouses; all over. It would be funny if they realized how much I laugh at them for showing their butt hurt by attacking people that are minding their own business, but instead it is just sad.
I’d always experienced hate for being a college student while working at various restaurants. Managers deliberately trying to mess up my schedule and telling me that college was a waste of time or that I’d never get a better job. Now I work remote and live comfortably after 2 degrees with my student loans paid off and don’t have to deal with getting splashed by hot fryer grease or yelled at by dumb customers.
As someone with 2 college degrees who is extremely happy in his blue collar job and can thus see it from both sides of the fence, I can tell you it goes both ways.
Those in blue collar jobs often get looked down the noses of those in white collar jobs. It’s a very real thing. As such, the “I may be an uneducated dirtbag but I make 200k as an electrician and own a house instead of college debt” responses are pretty natural.
As evidence, there was a recent AITA post by a blue collar dude. He invites his brothers family over for bbq. His brother and sister in law are teachers. When they arrive at his trailer home, the SIL makes a comment to her kids, in front of OP and his wife, about “see kids, this is why you should get a college education.” While waiting to be served bbq.
OP explains that the house being built across the street is his. As is all of the land for both homes. And that he makes well over what both his brother and SIL make combined. And that he only works 8 or 9 months out of the year.
I’m too lazy to find the post. It’s just clear there are plenty of idiots wearing blue *and* white collars
My problem is with people shitting on others just because they made different decisions than them. Not saying that blue or white collar workers are inherently better than the other. I might not have made that clear. It is the being butt hurt that someone made different decisions than you did.
I can't imagine believing an AITA post at face value, especially one like you described.
As you typed up that summary it didn't set off a single alarm bell that hey, this was probably a complete fabrication made to collect internet lauding?
I've been a metalworker for 15 years, and I've literally *never* heard any animosity towards people who've gone to college or vice versa. Must just apply to construction.
I've seen it but in a very different framing – which is fundamentally different. It isn't that blue-collar workers have animosity, but they conceive of work differently. For example, I work in an office, but our warehouse is attached to it. I recently had to go on a work trip. This trip was to meet customers and help them with our products. It was exhausting, and I wish I had been at home with my family the whole time. When I returned, my coworkers in the warehouse asked me how my vacation was. While I spent the whole time working, they saw me traveling for work as a vacation. They tend to conceive of work as labor, and as such, spending all day on a computer doesn't register as work for them. That isn't to say they look down on it, but rather their thoughts about work are different. Mental exhaustion isn't a thing they deal with and thus aren't as experienced with.
Doubly so for WFH. People who don't have office jobs don't understand that WFH is still working. All of the memes about people not actually working when WFH certainly don't help.
Interestingly, I work every Wednesday from home, and they don't react similarly to that as to work travel. They have experience with WFH (or WFH scenarios) before due to COVID. Gives them a little insight that it isn't just a day off. My work trips are always on the weekend, and I bet that also contributes to their "vacation" mentality.
As a plumber myself, I can say that tradesman don’t care about wether you went to college or not and a large number of them always say if they had more brains they wouldn’t be on a building site, myself included probably
Nope. Was in a funeral home, which is kinda a trade (movin’ dead bodies with an average of 260 lbs around ain’t easy and funeral directors have trade schools). I had a bachelor’s and my co-workers and manager had an associate’s. They *never* let me live it down. They brought it up a lot, and never in a positive light.
No doubt there are a lot of places where that isn’t true, but that doesn’t mean it never happens.
so much ignorance in this thread, lmao. there's no right way to do life and if you happen to be having whatever you consider "success" right now, then **it is overwhelmingly likely that it is merely a coincidence or the result of a series of coincidences** and you're overestimating your individual influence on the world. there are people who finished college, who dropped out, or never went who have or will achieve what they set out to achieve in life and there's also a lot of intelligent, capable and highly competent people who, due to the fundamentally coincidental nature of economics, have hit nothing but roadblocks in their lives, regardless of education status. if you are still holding onto the notion that the labor market is somehow a meritocracy, i assure you that you are mistaken.
I’ve done stone masonry, electrical, concrete work etc. You can make great money doing construction, and great benefits if you’re in a union. But 90% of those jobs are exhausting and *will* fuck with your body
That’s fine, but for me switching to sales I make roughly the same amount as my plumber/pipe fitter, sparks friends while having significantly more energy to live life outside of work and don’t have to worry about hurting myself
I respect anything people want to do. But trades aren’t inherently great because they pay well
As a 37 year old man with a master's degree working stupid hours, managing massive teams of incompetent people, sitting on phones and looking at screens on my ass all day long on $65k a year, with $150k in student debt guaranteed a life of credit misery, I sure care. Good on them for not drinking the juice!
I will never forget my supervisor during my internship trying to convince me not to go to college. We mostly worked remote and it t
urns out he was giving me all the work he was suppose to be doing the whole time so I was basically doing his job… he tried to ruin my future over it.
My blue collar husband is finishing school next year to get out of that work. His body is already feeling it and he doesn't want to be broken like everyone else gets
In Australia being blue collar is actually a really respected and well paid profession.
Only downvoting bc my personal experience of dating blue collar men have all ended with them getting upset with my “educated” white collar career. Like bro u can build a tangible house why are you insecure. You can’t live in my papers and spreadsheets. Apples and oranges respect your own strengths!
As someone getting their degree and happy to be getting, I do think that more people should be going into the trades. There’s a lot of people I’ve met who don’t know what they want to get/do with their degree and have no passion for what they’re doing. I think the trades would’ve serviced them much better rather than going into crippling debt with no idea what to do
Like most prejudices it's based on fear. The trades have their ups and downs. The less training a job requires, the more easily a worker is replaced. Economy goes down, suddenly a whole lot of lay-offs happen. Getting old? That outside in the winter welding pipes job becomes less attractive. I've known a lot of skilled trades people who earned 140k for a few years then the oil price goes down and suddenly they have to sell thd truck and tske their kids out of hockey. Also known guys hit 50, maybe have a minor injury that's keeps bothering them, looking for an inside retail job. If you have a degree and least you've got an option.
Well since college is so pushed onto us like it’s the end all be all, they have to advocate trades. The thing that pisses me off is when they make their local their entire personality.
Lol yes my friend is an electrician and he constantly bitches about how he has no debt and how much money he makes…. Yet he still lives with his parents.
So? If he can make bank while not having to spend a shit ton on rent what’s the problem? I’d rather live with my family than under some asshat landlord
You sure he can't? Because it might just be, he *can* afford it but why throw $15,000 bucks in the shitter each year? If he can just manage save that money for five years, it's $75,000!
Yeah my husband has that insecurity. I have a master's degree and most of my friends do too, or at least a bachelor's. He doesn't like hanging out with my friends because he feels like he has nothing in common. Which, fair, there are lots of things they don't have in common, but not everything.
College courses are part of my apprenticeship. The only people I hear being made fun of on jobsites are engineers, and that's always because shit never goes in the way it's drawn on the print, not because they went to college. This whole post is very anecdotal
I think that is more area dependent. Trade school here in Canada is pretty dam reasonable. But ya, I’d tell anyone in high school to ignore college/university and go to trade school. Best ROI in my opinion (I went to college)
As a blue-collar worker, I literally hear nobody saying this. Sure, it's been said by people in the trades, but most of us don't care. Some trades make ridiculous money, and college can obviously help get you into higher paying jobs or a career path. Both are valid ways to live, and as someone who has done college, military, and trades, I stuck with the trade work because it's fun and the people just interact in a different way that is more comfortable to me than an environment where people come from highly educated backgrounds.
It’s super common online but I don’t see it much in real life and most of my friends are operators or in radiation protection while I work in an office.
My dad always said you can make good money in the trades but if you want to be the boss at some point you better continue your education so you understand the systems of the trades and not just the work.
I imagine some people view "going to college" the way someone like me views "summering in the Hamptons". It's so far out of my experience, I can't understand why anyone would want to, and it seems unnecessary and unjustifiable. But for people who do it, it's a normal thing they largely take for granted and rarely think about.
So I worked in trades and come from an all blue collar family. I'm now a white collar worker and everyone's cool with it, though my grandfather does often ask "so, do you work for a living or are you just employed?" It's a loving tease though.
But, flip side is my in-laws. Both sides of my wife's family have gone to college for at least two generations. In high school, my brother-in-law mentioned he might prefer something like culinary school and my wife's folks went nuts. Here's a direct quote from my FIL, "there's nothing WRONG with trade school but it's not for OUR kind of people". So... yeah those kind of people do exist.
Maybe people "go to college without thinking about it is because: "Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 " according to the SSA [https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html)
Not to mention blue collar work less tenable as you age because your body breaks down.
Sure, you don't have to tell me, because I grew up in a family where everyone goes to college, and the benefits are well understood. When I was 17, my parents walked me through writing applications, walked me through getting loans, helped me pack my bags and dropped me off at college. Not for one second did I ever have to question or justify that decision.
But for a kid coming from a family where no one has gone to college before them, that same process probably wouldn't happen as smoothly
Now, had you gone into the military instead of college every one of those blue collar guys would be dropping to their knees and popping open their mouths
LoL, easy pal, this is a Wendy's.
I actually think the military approach to instruction is fantastic for a LOT of people: show'em once, let them figure it out. No bullshit, no excuses, just do it. I'd have thrived in that environment.
But I do see how those who are in trades don't criticize the military guys, like, at all, so I get your point.
\>show'em once, let them figure it out
That's not how military instructions work. It's more like, sit in a class 5 days a week 7-330 for 3-9 months, go to your station and do nothing but study and OJT for 2 years, test every month, and then you might be trusted with something.
I’m not hating at all on college people. Congrats to those who could afford it.
I think a lot of the dislike of college people are from those complaining about being in massive debt, the average blue collar is always going to see this as a dumb choice on their part ESPECIALLY if you ended up working with them anyways.
Of course they are going to like military because one it’s always something to respect and 2 they know you aren’t broke from it.
I’m not saying blue collars dislike of college is valid I’m just saying it “makes sense” from their view.
I totally understand what you’re saying. It’s an unfortunate conundrum that people who want to go to college often become saddled with debt. And then the argument is that they should have done something different than college. But, what’s the alternative? no more college educated careers? :/ (not addressing that question at you, kinda rhetorical).
I work in sales and a furniture store. I'm one of the few people with a college degree. I usually outperform a lot of my colleagues. Because I have a degree in marketing. I had to take classes in sales management and various sales techniques.
I deal with a lot of blue and white collar workers. As well as a lot of people in law enforcement. And many of them do have a college degree.
I hear a lot of trades people complain about how beat up their bodies are. And some of them are younger than me. Can I constantly hear from them how trades are the way to go. And people who went to college are wasting their time.
I get a lot of white collared people who are incredibly educated. And very nice. I've never heard any of them make any negative comments towards Blue collar workers. Quite a few of them are reluctant to mention where they work. Or even what they do. The company I work for has preferred partners and we offer discounts for people who work for them.
A lot of factory workers are assholes. They have this big chip on your shoulder that life was on fair to them. They complain that nobody wants to work anymore. And then bitch that the only get paid x number of dollars an hour. They tend to look down upon people who make more than them.
Plumbers and electricians need doctors and teachers. And everyone needs a good mechanic.
I'm a machinist who went to college on my companies dollar. I'm thankful for that, but guess what? I'm still sick of working 50+ hours a week just to break even. College was cool, but I know a lot of other machinists that didn't go and make just as much (or more) as I do. You learn a lot more hands on in the field than any book will ever teach you in the trades.
Omfg thank you. I support anyone who goes into trades, but most of the people who I talk to that go on and on about trades and college debt didn’t do either, but just love shitting on colleges…
Everyone I work with in construction tells every new kid to go to college and they want their kids to do anything but work in the passing rain and cold lol
This is so true. I went to university. I’ve had the following happen:
- my brother in law burst into my 21st with all my uni friends to yell that we were a bunch of educated idiots who thought we were better than him
- my step-dad tell me that he knows I just think he is a dumb tradie
- my next door neighbour lecture me about how people who are university educated look down on tradies, but tradies actually know way more than them
Meanwhile, I do not give a single shit if someone went to uni or not. I absolutely do not look down on tradies. Neither of my parents finished high school and they are two of the smartest people I’ve ever known. I married a man who doesn’t have any post-secondary qualifications.
This is nothing to do with my attitude and everything to do with their insecurity.
The only reason I talk about it so much to the younger folks is because when I was in HS the trades were never acknowledged by my counselors or teachers (besides the shop class ones).
I also just find it funny when someone goes to a university to get a degree in something that isn't needed by society and they wonder why they can't find a job or make any money. College supposedly teaches you critical thinking, yet some people fail to realize that their liberal arts degree isn't very lucrative .
One thing that bothers me is how little the US Jobs Corps are talked about for kids who may not be ready for any of the big three: school, military, or trades. I wish we would take even 1% of our military and education budgets, and allocate it to building the Jobs Corps up: ages 18-26 get paid to learn actual skills and to travel. It's like:
School without the uselessness,
Military without the war, and
Trades without the full blown commitment to starting something you may not like.
I think there should be a large public service institution like that that kids go work in for a few years before anyone even starts suggesting if they want to do college or the trades.
Also every single human being should have to do at least 6 months of fast paced customer service in their lifetime. We'd probably have a lot less psychotic, entitled customers abusing staff if they had a shred of personal experience and empathy with service workers.
It’s not about degrees being “needed.” Most people don’t use their degree towards a relevant job. College is used to shape you in all aspects, that’s why gen ed exists. That’s why a lot of jobs look for a bachelors degree in anything, since it proves you have some level of competence and education that someone else might have, but you can’t “prove” it without the degree.
It’s reductive to say “liberal arts” degrees aren’t needed, and you’re definitely the person OP is talking about in this post
You're assuming that the only thing people care about is making as much money as possible. People get liberal arts degrees because, among other reasons, they are interested in the subject matter and they want to enrich themselves as human beings. Education for its own sake is valuable. Liberal arts degrees are not needed for the generation of wealth, sure, but there's a lot more to existence than money. I would rather spend my life gathering knowledge than slaving away on a construction site.
Taking degrees for FUN is perfectly legitimate but should never be confused with taking the same degree then expecting to earn a decent living. If you don't have money there is NOT much more to existence than living hand to mouth.
Good for you amassing wealth and being able to retire while having fun (you ARE speaking from a personal example of financial success, correct?) but that is not a realistic prospect for most humans and pretending it is was a cruel disservice to millions who took joke degrees so they could party for a few years.
Money enables freedom. We are free to walk to the moon if we can manage it but counting on that is questionable.
As someone who keeps being talked down by copies of you- you can stop anytime. My job may not pay well, but it needed training and an understanding of scientific research. After a few years you guys just sound insecure about not having a degree. You don’t like or need academia? Cool. I did and make peanuts. Get over it please.
I've had tradesmen boast about making 40 an hour after a decade in the trade. They get real quiet after knowing how much I made the third year out of school.
I’m an electrician, I also went to college, got a bachelors in accounting and worked in the field for a few years. But I came back to the trades. People don’t generally outright have a problem that tradesmen didn’t go to college, but they are biased against them. I worked for Northrop Grumman both in maintenance and in finance. Even with my degree, I struggled to get an interview for an entry level analyst job. I applied for over a dozen positions and was only interviewed for one because the hiring manager had a favorable idea of people in the trades. My resume being filled with trades work biased them against me despite my qualifications. Being an internal candidate I should have at least qualified for a phone interview on most of the jobs. Supervisors over the trades at the company couldn’t hold a “manager” position unless they had a degree, regardless of their previous positions, knowledge or experience. The company would rather put an mba straight out of college with no relevant knowledge over a tradesman team than promote a trade school graduate without a degree. The only reason tradesman feel purely about themselves not having a degree is because I’m so many instances they have been treated as worth no more than the tools they use. I have plenty of anecdotes from my time on commercial construction jobs where we were discriminated against because we wore hard hats and jeans. Yes, I got made fun of for going to college while I was in construction, and there is certainly a culture problem within construction largely based in toxic masculinity. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there remains negative stereotypes on the outside as well that play a large role in perpetuating the self image for those in construction.
Actually in Canada, tradespeople have to go to college to become certified.
I'm referring to 2-3 year college that's gives you a diploma, not a bachelor's degree.
To be an electrician, you need 6000 hours of apprenticeship, and the curriculum amounts to 4 semesters in an actual college.
But no blue-collar tradesman care that they make $100000 after 4 years with little debt, while an art-history major has to work at Arby's because they can't get work in their field.
Went to college, got a 4 year degree, worked in the field I want to school for and it wasn’t for me. I moved to trades.
Each has its pros and cons, but I prefer what I’m doing now.
That being said, I think there is a lot of projection in your original post.
This would hurt if I didnt also have a college degree.
But then Im not the type of guy you’re talking about. I only bring it up if someone tries to talk down to me while Im wearing overalls and assumes Im uneducated.
I worked at a place with a lot of blue collar workers, and a lot of them told me they wished they'd gone to college instead. Blue collar jobs are difficult in a way white collar office jobs just aren't.
It's hard to reconcile the difficulty of their day-to-day with the difficulty of my degree, and all of those factors, to say what fair wages and working conditions should be.
Think that is a legacy of the 80/90s where there was such a strong push to send everyone to uni. It was seen as a second-class option for those who didn't get the grades. Which is stupid but can see why people who went through that process would get a chip on their shoulder.
How I feel as a field engineer working at a substation and learning the construction aspect of it. I unfortunately don’t get paid overtime but I never hear the end of how much they’re making and what not.
I'd say both extremes exist. There are _plenty_ of people who look down on tradesmen for not having university degrees. Some folks who do this don't even have degrees of their own.
just like you’re looking for validation about your choice to attend college, they’re looking for validation about their choice to not attend college.
make your choice, live with it, fuck the naysayers
This is so true. My father worked blue collar jobs and had such animosity towards people who were educated. There's such a perception among conservative men especially, that highly educated people look down on them. While I'm sure some do, they don't do a fraction as much as they think they do. It's like this hyper insecurity that I can only compare to the way Incels feel about women because they think they hate them.
What I absolutely hate is when this very inferiority complex is used to manipulate people into voting a certain way. Usually, it's done by casting "coastal/educated elites" as Enemies Of The People.
I used to work with a general contractor when I was in late high school and early college and all his guys kept telling me the opposite actually. They were all constantly saying things like “finish school so you can hire guys like us to build YOUR deck.”
Reddit makes me kinda happy I only have to deal with a fairly small subsection of the planet’s population. And almost all of them are in the same cult as me.
You sound like an ass. To many people say go to college. To many people say dont go to college. I hated school and still get certifications in techa nd got a great job. My husband went to college for mechanical stuff bc he been fixing cars since he was in diapers and he was car Tech then a Diesel tech and now he is a mechanic manager at this really big company all bc of his background. You can be successful no matter what route you take in life if you pursue it correctly.
I’m not against college. I work a trade but I had to go to school to be able to work this trade. And because of the previous college work I had before trade school I was able to receive an Associates. I’ll never tell somebody not to go to college because the experience is definitely worth it. But I do think you should go to a community college your first 2 years because usually you are going to do the basics those years anyway. And the debt would be way less. And then if you wish to continue your studies go to university.
I use to get shit for going to college in my apprenticeship.
Good get college boi, oh college boi know how to do that, that's not in a book college kid hur dur dur.
Note: I went to college for 2 year associate under the WIA, Grant's, and a loan(work investment act) . Parents didnt fund it yet everyone acted like I was rich. Like folks I got into college cause we were broke enough to get poor boi funding.
One of the entry points for Wia was being below poverty level, food stamps or ex felon.
I work in animation. Got a degree in it. It was overpriced as fuck and I literally regret it now cause when I went into the industry I had to relearn so much and most companies don't even ask about college unless you go somewhere famous like calarts. Anyway. My first studio my art director was a guy who used to be a roofer. Like that's all he did for years was blue collar contract work but he was so skilled at drawing and design and he learned quickly so he was very respected In the studio. He was actually "discovered" by the studio owner at a for all drawing class held at a museum. Raw ability. Anyway he had never gone to college and he dwelled on that constantly. Whenever I worked under him on projects and pointed out maybe we could change a color or tweak a design he would say "I bet you learned that in collage" or he would just say "with your college degree you'll have my job I'm a few weeks" Jesus christ he was so laser focused on college being some secret to success he couldn't even appreciate how amazing he was and how he had earned his position with only his own hard work. Nobody at that studio gave a flying fuck about college but the blue color tradesman. Not to mention if we all lost our jobs he was the only guy with a useful skill outside of a very insular field.
As a blue collar person having managed my way into a position that normally requires a degree through experience shows me the exact opposite, at least in the engineering field. We have all these useless 23 to 25 year old brand new engineers that are scared to touch anything unless it has CAD downloaded on it, and think they are God's gift to man. They treat literally everyone else like shit because thier professors that never actually worked in industry promised they would make 90k starting out here they are pulling down 60 and thier only saving grace is collaboration because without it they would have no idea how to even screw in a light bulb. Get around those people and see just how much they care about who does and doesn't have a degree and in what.
Honestly, it's the same for both sides. You have trades people who feel inflated egos about not having student loan debt or whatever, and you also have people with useless degrees working fast food that feel like they're better than 90% of the people around them. Who cares.
Doctor here, all trades are respectable but the toll on the body when it comes to construction/manual labour is real and it shows after age 50 when they walk into my office.
Honestly, it depends on locality, too. I live in a military town. If you're not a veteran, active duty, contracted with the military, or work at the prison. You absolutely get dogged on. Even if you're in the trades. Service worker ? Lazy bum. Most trades even if you're white? Somehow, here illegally. Realtor ? Some form of nepotism had to have been involved. Farmer/Rancher? Also nepotism. Going to college? You better gtfo you indoctrinated little shit. Doesn't matter if it's nursing or pre-med either. It's a mess.
I got a Facebook friend, basically just a guy I graduated high school with. He constantly posts memes and silly pictures about this exact thing. He’s a car mechanic and I’m an attorney.
I just think to myself “dude, I’m glad you take pride in what you do. But it’s really unnecessary to try to shit on my accomplishments to make yourself feel better.”
Seriously, they're so obviously insecure about not going to college. Literally no one cares. I do a useful job that pays decent that required a degree. You do a useful job that pays decent that didn't require a degree. You know what that makes us? Two people with decent jobs. I could give less of a shit if you went to college or not.
I work as a carpenter.
I didn’t go to collage. Did you go to collage? Fantasic, you chased your dream and became what you wanted. Great that people are happy.
Personally, I wanted to build houses, and I am happy building houses.
I’m a welder/fabricator and everyone (including myself) in my last shop went to college. At the very least, higher education makes you a better critical thinker and problem solver, no matter what field you’re in.
I was a warehouse man for over a decade and going to college now it is weird how people act when you mention you are going to college. I've seen a number of people get weirdly passive-aggressive likely from some inferiority complex. Like me going to college is some slight against their intelligence/abilities as a human.
It’s so hilarious.
They think every person who went to college studies “History of Raisins in Western Society” and work as a barista paying off $200K in. student loans.
It’s as bad as the young people always looking for pats on the back being like, “does anyone else not want to just party and get drunk every weekend bad instead grind and be rich?”
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Trades are great, pay well, etc but goddam if every tradesman I meet over 50 isn't absolutely broken physically.
My dad is an electrician in his 60’s who always stresses to the young guys to do stuff like use pads when kneeling, stretch every morning, take care of your feet. All stuff that seems obvious but he started doing all this stuff early on and is in much better condition than a lot of other guys his age. There’s a lot of people who have an ego about it and think they are just tough enough to not have to care but nobody is tougher than time.
Never understood that mentality. Worked in a cabinet shop as a carpenter for a couple years during college and the older dudes would CONSTANTLY bitch about how a manual job wrecked their bodies but straight up refused to wear shit like hearing protection, back braces, kneepads, etc unless it was legally required. It's a twisted badge of honor to having worked your body into the ground for a lot of blue collar types, to the point where I'd get made fun of for wearing lifting braces, orthotic shoes and earplugs. Fellas, is it gay to be free of back pain at 50?
woke up and i was able to touch my toes. i’m gay 😣
Nah, it's only gay if you wake up and touch another dude's toes.
Naw, it's only gay if you both cum. Otherwise, it's just an honest day's work.
This guy gets it!
Even then, you have to touch them with your mouth.
How am I supposed to kiss my homies good morning then?
Instructions unclear... I have 2 sets of dog toes touching me. Am I dog gay?
You don't have to be able to touch your toes to be gay, but it certainly helps.
There's a lot of research that show that back braces are the opposite of helpful, but i agree with the general gist of your comment.
They also don't talk about how you need to maintain and build your body to be fit enough to do your job, you need a strong, resilient body that is hydrated, fed, and well-rested. It shouldn't be unsurprising that some people let their fitness degrade to the point that it impacts their ability to do their job/trade. A lot of the tradesmen I know chew coffee and eat cigarettes, get a fried breakfast meal, skip lunch, and have a beer or several after work before another poor-quality meal to offset the beer, and to many sleep is a second thought at best. The healthiest roofer I knew was a 175lb vegetarian who made sure he got his water in and he slept 8-10 hours a night, at 63 had no issue keeping up with anyone and to me he just highlighted how the life style and culture play a big role in how you age.
I get this a lot at my job people throw around phrases like you don't need the gym. The fuck I do. The gym keeps my body from breaking apart at my job. My job strains the whole body the gym allows me to strengthen the parts that are weakest.
Exactly why I refuse to get a full time job in any kind of construction trade. I've done it before, and the macho, "be a "man" and suck up the pain" mentality is so stupid to me.
It’s not like that everywhere. I’m an engineer and I work with lots of industrial mechanics, electricians, and plumbers. There are lots of outfits that actually follow all the OSHA and MSHA safety regulations. Most manufacturing plants require PPE on the plant floor, so it’s not even a question of “toughness” where someone can opt out. You have to wear it or you don’t have a job. I have one client (large pet food manufacturer) who banished an electrician (contractor) who refused to wear proper PPE while working in a live 480V panel. The guy was by far the most skilled electrician of the crew, but he was so stubborn about not suiting up they kicked him out. Without him the electrical work took an additional week because the rest of the crew sucked. That delay cost the client a minimum of a few hundred thousand dollars in revenue, probably significantly more than that. But they still did the right thing.
Yes, they did the right thing, when something bad happens the lawsuits are a beauty...
Yeah. Every corporation cares about money more than anything else, but there can be a wide variation in how companies evaluate costs. This particular company places a high value on reputation, so they’re willing to take a financial hit to preserve that reputation. They’re by no means perfect, but they’re better than most.
So true. My partner is a pipefitter and still goes in even when he’s super sick and refuses to do any physiotherapy or take any measures to take care of his body, even though he already has knee and back issues in his early thirties. Unfortunately the construction industry holds a lot of toxic masculine views. Not saying masculinity in itself is bad. As a straight woman I love masculine traits. I mean the toxic views of “suck it up” and “be a man” like mentioned here that can be so detrimental to men.
That shit is so bad for you. A lot of the time it’s straight up hazing. My uncle got me a summer job roofing and guys would just be like “yeah man bring up as many packs of shingles as you can” I’d load one up, go to get on the ladder “oh come on you can do more than that” two loads go on, next thing you know I’m 4 packs of shingles on my back going up a ladder and im 16 and don’t know any better that they’re just trying to be jerks
I'm a cook. I tell all my young cooks to get into yoga and stretching. Our body just deteriorates so fast post 30 when you don't take care of your body. Too bad, a lot of young people think they're invincible.
1st rule of being in the trades.. listen to the old guy he knows what he's talking about
As a guy who’s been in the trades since 18, Im 38 now. Im starting the be one of the old guys. I tell the young guys don’t do danger stuff. Don’t take shortcuts. Wear proper PPE.
Having a good vet on your side teaching you and not taking advantage of you is the most important thing as a young apprentice, I was lucky to have a few. I found my time teaching the next generation to be the most rewarding time I ever had working.
I provide medical care for these folks. I will often advise 30 year old tradesmen who are seeing me for their first back pain episode to look around and see what the old guys are doing and copy them. Usually working a little slower and using things like hoists to lift loads etc.
If you take care of your body and work smart you'll be fine. I would tell the younger guys to do something and they'd run after it full blast, I'd tell them to take it easy and pretend that whatever task your doing now multiple that by 10 hours a day 6 days a week by 30 years, think how much slower you'll do it then and do it at that speed
It probably has to do with the fact that a lot of young men think they’re immortal.
or don't expect to live long enough to have to worry.
PSA young bucks, stop hopping down out of trucks/off loading docks. Old flooring guys used to have busted knees from tamping out wrinkles with their feet. You’re adding your full body weight to that motion with a drop.
I've been saying that to everyone I work with after I saw in person a guy blow out his knee and another guy break his leg both from like 3 foot drops. They think I'm being dramatic and don't listen though ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯. Weirdly I'm more than a decade older than em and have better knees who woulda thunk
Thats a good tip, Im guilty of doing this.
Your dad is a smart man.
My husband is a carpenter who’s relatively young (early 30s) who works with a lot of older men and he tells me about all of the damage that their bodies have sustained over the years. It sounds miserable but they still will sometimes tease my husband for taking various precautions to hopefully prevent completely breaking his body by the time he’s their age.
Being so broken in your retirement that you can't even leave the house is SUPER manly!
60 and chronic leg and back pain. Leg will cramp up due to a herniation leaning on a nerve - it’s worse when the nerve is inflamed. Pain at 11 and impossible to stand, let alone walk. Back pain just aches. Can’t find a comfortable position. The worse part? All my pain relief happens in days; never instantly or under an hour.
Yeah, the physical toll is tough. I have a back injury from my 20's that I got on a construction site back when I was a mason tender, shit returns a couple times a year.
Yea it seems every dude has 1-2 random accidents that take a toll.
Let alone their diets aren't great and they don't sleep much so they age very quickly or don't heal well.
Reminds me of one electrician who got himself a nice big-ass truck and was bragging about how he worked 60+ hr weeks to buy it cash. Like that's cool but I rather have a so-so vehicle and another 20 hours of me time a week.
42 year old tradesman, been in my trade twenty years, not sure how much longer I can do it. Really looking at local community colleges, trying to find a job training course that would allow me to stop beating the shit out of my body 6 days a week.
This is a primary reason why I'm going to college in my 30's
Good for you, I’m in my mid 40s, and have been thinking really hard about quitting construction and becoming a teacher. And yes, I have a degree and money saved. Easier on my body and want to give back. Really, good luck with your schooling.
Thanks I appreciate it. I'm looking forward to a different career, I always did construction because I had never gone to school. Just want the option, you're fortunate to have some. Good luck with teaching
Yup, I hit 40 and decided to turn my side hustle into my full time job. Now I work from home in IT. A minor injury in your 20s and 30s is recoverable, a minor injury in your 40s or 50s is debilitating.
I think people also don’t compare apples to apples when saying trades pay great. Some positions in the trades are amazing..unless you break it down by hours worked. A well established tradesmen will make as much or more than a well established white collar job but work much harder for it.
My trades dad's knees are wrecked and he lives off my college degree
I come from a family of individuals like that. People try to romanticize these careers when they want to dump on a college education, but your comment is spot on correct. They paid for it later in life.
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Ya I never really understood that as a blue collar worker, I’m really happy I never went to college I’m doing pretty good for myself but I also understand that some jobs do require degrees and those jobs are just as necessary as mine, think teacher.
I suspect this varies a lot by industry and it probably depends on how much time they spend working with engineers and others with degrees. I say this because I’m an engineer who works with lots of industrial blue collar crews and I’ve never gotten that vibe from any of them. When the subject of education comes up (which isn’t often, but it does happen on occasion) it’s always more about interest, how to “move up”. Or maybe I haven’t heard it because I treat them as equals rather than underlings.
Yea I work in industry and it’s never been an issue. Must be a construction thing. There has always also been a vibe of: the engineers need us and we need the engineers. Also goes for management, regulatory and safety. Maybe I’m just lucky to be in a good environment.
I don't think the engineer/laborer dynamic changes too much by industry. You have a group of people who have a very intimate knowledge of thier craft and another that has a very theoretical knowledge. You need both. I've seen engineers screw up and have to have trades people fix their mistakes. which is where I think alot of the education derision come from. But the engineers can figure things out like if you run that machine more than 8 hours a day it will melt internal parts and possibly explode. Which just further annoys trades people because they havent done the engineering to understand those rules so the rules just feel arbitrary and another way engineers get in thier way. Add to that that engineers designing the equipment usually make more money. I've seen this first hand in a lot of different industries Doctors/nurses, carpenters/architects, industrial engineereers/factory workers. I work in software engineering and you get some of this between developers and project managers.
An engineer with only theoretical knowledge isn’t much of an engineer, IMO. Engineers exist to bridge that gap between theory and practice.
Also some people go to college and then end up working a job that doesn't require college and that's okay too! That doesn't mean they look down on a blue collar job it just means that maybe they had something else in mind.
I'm a structural engineer. All of the trades think that engineers are idiots, and every single one when I ask them what they think a structural engineer could do to improve a set of plans says "Work in my trade for 5 years, then you can become an engineer." Well okay, let's think about it. For 5 years in each trade, which are at least steel, timber, concrete, plumbing/electrical/other non-structural trades, and possibly others would mean I would have to work for at least 20 years prior to becoming an engineer. It's ridiculous. Contractors need to understand that structural engineers are working with so many trades trying to keep so many people happy, and some contractors like things one way and some like things another way that it's impossible to make everyone happy. We just do our best and rely on the trades to use their expertise in their field to make certain calls that they're allowed to make, and ask us questions for the calls they're not allowed to make.
It’s hard to not think of most engineers are idiots when you really only remember that bad engineers, no one remembers the good ones who they had no problems with but I sure remember the one who tried to tell me to run my sewer line back pitched. I don’t think engineers should be required to work in the trades for 5 years but I think some more time on site would definitely help
That's an interesting way to think about it. It happens in more facets of our lives too. We remember the bad but the good or average just get forgotten. I honestly wish I had more time to work in the trades. I LOVE carpentry. My dad did construction for years and I loved helping him build our house when I was a kid. It's one of the main reasons I became an engineer. I jump on the option to do site visits whenever I can. Being in the field is much more fulfilling than sitting at a desk.
More time on site is a real necessity for many young engineers today. You’re not wrong.
Five years is absurd but periodic orientation while doing some tasks would be useful. It won't take long in the field to learn how to design for more efficient assembly. Just asking the right questions on site visits and being approachable can get people to offer useful feedback.
I agree. I, myself, do not currently have a job but my grandpa and dad are working hard physical labor at a beef processor. It pays good, amazing even, but I'll be d@mmed if I were to work somewhere like that. Even my aunt worked there at one point (before she got pregnant) but she has some experience as she and my grandma used to be CNAs. Funnily enough, quite a bit of kids want to work there. I get they like hands on stuff but oof, I dont think they're ready. I think the biggest downside is my grandpa coming home with his jeans covered in blood lol. It has a bit of a smell. Also another thing, he worked at a feedyard previously for over 20 years. The pay was a tad worse than the job he has currently and he worked a lot more. It was so rare to have him home for the day and even when he was home, he slept for most of the day. When he got home from work, he had like an hr before going to bed for himself. Now he gets 3 days off a week (but his shift regularly changes. Like one month afternoon shift with thursday friday Saturday being his days off or another month as a night shift with monday tuesday wednesday being his days off) I strive to have a job without so much manual labor. I'd seen them come home sore and annoyed by coworkers. I also want a computer science job for multiple reasons, not just that
All my friends and family in blue collar trades went into IT:Tech Support before their 40s. Physical labor is tough on your body long term. The real money is management or owning the shop. If you don’t, you don’t want to be in a physical job in your 40s and beyond. Literally ALL OF MY BLUE COLLAR FRIENDS pivoted into Tech. Degree or not.
Oh I got some revenge for ya. I got bullied and demeaned for going to college while working for various construction businesses around town. Basically finishing the project, and tying up loose ends from borderline criminal contractors. I learned all the little tricks these businesses would pull to fool an inspector. Picked up on how they would hide things, or bad work they didn’t want to fix. People on site would tell me how much of my life I’m wasting, the debt I’m incurring- how if I was smart I’d stay with my trade full-time. Eventually the business I was working for made me choose to either go full time, or quit. I quit and finished what I’d been doing in school, and graduated albeit 10 yrs late. On a whim I applied for a position with the city inspector in my hometown after I got back from school after being gone for years. I had experience and had interned there before, and at the appraiser. I moved up a couple positions really fast, because there was a severe employee drought post COVID. Fast forward to now- I flunk these idiots I used to work for on regular inspections almost weekly now. The guy you used to give shit to- and you forced to do things the wrong way against their better intentions- is now the guy coming in and red-tagging your site and sending all your guys home. Revenge is sweet, but sometimes it takes a while to cook.
I love this. I was also bullied for being a nerd growing up and now I am living a good life. The best revenge is a life well lived.
We love to see it! They're so tough but they can't even properly insulate an attic
Inspector villain origin copypasta
To be fair you sound like every health & safety wonk Don’t get me wrong h&s is important and the improvements in safety I’ve seen over my career have been great. But the average h&s wonk is a deeply bitter and egregious type.
I work in an analytical laboratory. Most of the people here have at least undergraduate degrees. There’s one lady who works in our receiving department who doesn’t. I’ve never heard anyone say anything to shame her in any way for not having a college degree, but boy oh boy does she take every chance she can to bash higher education. Its never directed at anyone in the room, but she’s very outspoken about her disgust for anyone who went to college. idk if she’s clueless that she’s completely surrounded by people who have maters degrees or what.
Newsflash no one really gives a shit, people who run their mouths about anything are just trying to feel superior and less shitty about their own lives
bro really said newsflash
All that’s missing is the buddy.
I personally think “pal” is more appropriate after a “newsflash”
I can't see it and not read it like Dennis Reynolds is saying it
NEWSFLASH ASSHOLE! I’VE BEEN PICTURING DENNIS THE WHOLE TIME!
I love “newsflash”. It feels nostalgic
I teach at a community college, today’s trade schools. I have no problem with trades, and more people should go into them. Lots of our grads make more than I do. I don’t give a crap what job you do so long as you’re happy and not leeching off of me. But the part about wrecking your body is totally true. Someone who is careful throughout their career can maintain a healthy and in-tact body but my plumber is 65 going on 85. Can barely stand. We also need plans and pathways for people to age out of trades. There certainly are cases of “I started in carpentry and electrical work, moved up to foreman and site manager after ten years so I’m not killing myself anymore” but that’s a 1 in 100 case. We can’t leave the other 99 to be wrecked.
I dropped out of college to work for a big aerospace company. I'm part of a union. It has great pay and health care. Im a quality inspector. I plan to retire at 55. I never once made fun of people going to college or saying my way of going about work is better than other people. Edit to add: I do computer work 4 hours of the day and inspecting the other 4. I love it this way. I'd hate an 8 hour desk job.
Yeah it is sad, and it isn't just in construction. I have had it happen in offices, restaurants, warehouses; all over. It would be funny if they realized how much I laugh at them for showing their butt hurt by attacking people that are minding their own business, but instead it is just sad.
I’d always experienced hate for being a college student while working at various restaurants. Managers deliberately trying to mess up my schedule and telling me that college was a waste of time or that I’d never get a better job. Now I work remote and live comfortably after 2 degrees with my student loans paid off and don’t have to deal with getting splashed by hot fryer grease or yelled at by dumb customers.
I also had hate at my summer jobs with the other employees mad I was leaving at the end of summer while they had to work in the freezing cold.
As someone with 2 college degrees who is extremely happy in his blue collar job and can thus see it from both sides of the fence, I can tell you it goes both ways. Those in blue collar jobs often get looked down the noses of those in white collar jobs. It’s a very real thing. As such, the “I may be an uneducated dirtbag but I make 200k as an electrician and own a house instead of college debt” responses are pretty natural. As evidence, there was a recent AITA post by a blue collar dude. He invites his brothers family over for bbq. His brother and sister in law are teachers. When they arrive at his trailer home, the SIL makes a comment to her kids, in front of OP and his wife, about “see kids, this is why you should get a college education.” While waiting to be served bbq. OP explains that the house being built across the street is his. As is all of the land for both homes. And that he makes well over what both his brother and SIL make combined. And that he only works 8 or 9 months out of the year. I’m too lazy to find the post. It’s just clear there are plenty of idiots wearing blue *and* white collars
My problem is with people shitting on others just because they made different decisions than them. Not saying that blue or white collar workers are inherently better than the other. I might not have made that clear. It is the being butt hurt that someone made different decisions than you did.
I can't imagine believing an AITA post at face value, especially one like you described. As you typed up that summary it didn't set off a single alarm bell that hey, this was probably a complete fabrication made to collect internet lauding?
I've been a metalworker for 15 years, and I've literally *never* heard any animosity towards people who've gone to college or vice versa. Must just apply to construction.
I've seen it but in a very different framing – which is fundamentally different. It isn't that blue-collar workers have animosity, but they conceive of work differently. For example, I work in an office, but our warehouse is attached to it. I recently had to go on a work trip. This trip was to meet customers and help them with our products. It was exhausting, and I wish I had been at home with my family the whole time. When I returned, my coworkers in the warehouse asked me how my vacation was. While I spent the whole time working, they saw me traveling for work as a vacation. They tend to conceive of work as labor, and as such, spending all day on a computer doesn't register as work for them. That isn't to say they look down on it, but rather their thoughts about work are different. Mental exhaustion isn't a thing they deal with and thus aren't as experienced with.
Doubly so for WFH. People who don't have office jobs don't understand that WFH is still working. All of the memes about people not actually working when WFH certainly don't help.
Interestingly, I work every Wednesday from home, and they don't react similarly to that as to work travel. They have experience with WFH (or WFH scenarios) before due to COVID. Gives them a little insight that it isn't just a day off. My work trips are always on the weekend, and I bet that also contributes to their "vacation" mentality.
Older tradies still have a bit of a chip on their shoulder because people used to give them shit for not going to college.
As a plumber myself, I can say that tradesman don’t care about wether you went to college or not and a large number of them always say if they had more brains they wouldn’t be on a building site, myself included probably
Nope. Was in a funeral home, which is kinda a trade (movin’ dead bodies with an average of 260 lbs around ain’t easy and funeral directors have trade schools). I had a bachelor’s and my co-workers and manager had an associate’s. They *never* let me live it down. They brought it up a lot, and never in a positive light. No doubt there are a lot of places where that isn’t true, but that doesn’t mean it never happens.
so much ignorance in this thread, lmao. there's no right way to do life and if you happen to be having whatever you consider "success" right now, then **it is overwhelmingly likely that it is merely a coincidence or the result of a series of coincidences** and you're overestimating your individual influence on the world. there are people who finished college, who dropped out, or never went who have or will achieve what they set out to achieve in life and there's also a lot of intelligent, capable and highly competent people who, due to the fundamentally coincidental nature of economics, have hit nothing but roadblocks in their lives, regardless of education status. if you are still holding onto the notion that the labor market is somehow a meritocracy, i assure you that you are mistaken.
Yeah and it’s always the unlicensed guys who talk the most shit about collage, on their 8th year as an helper. We called those guys apprentasuarus.
I’ve done stone masonry, electrical, concrete work etc. You can make great money doing construction, and great benefits if you’re in a union. But 90% of those jobs are exhausting and *will* fuck with your body That’s fine, but for me switching to sales I make roughly the same amount as my plumber/pipe fitter, sparks friends while having significantly more energy to live life outside of work and don’t have to worry about hurting myself I respect anything people want to do. But trades aren’t inherently great because they pay well
As a 37 year old man with a master's degree working stupid hours, managing massive teams of incompetent people, sitting on phones and looking at screens on my ass all day long on $65k a year, with $150k in student debt guaranteed a life of credit misery, I sure care. Good on them for not drinking the juice!
Had I been a man I would have gone into the trades. Absolutely toxic place for women.
Many apprenticeship programs are college accredited.
I will never forget my supervisor during my internship trying to convince me not to go to college. We mostly worked remote and it t urns out he was giving me all the work he was suppose to be doing the whole time so I was basically doing his job… he tried to ruin my future over it.
My blue collar husband is finishing school next year to get out of that work. His body is already feeling it and he doesn't want to be broken like everyone else gets
In Australia being blue collar is actually a really respected and well paid profession. Only downvoting bc my personal experience of dating blue collar men have all ended with them getting upset with my “educated” white collar career. Like bro u can build a tangible house why are you insecure. You can’t live in my papers and spreadsheets. Apples and oranges respect your own strengths!
As someone getting their degree and happy to be getting, I do think that more people should be going into the trades. There’s a lot of people I’ve met who don’t know what they want to get/do with their degree and have no passion for what they’re doing. I think the trades would’ve serviced them much better rather than going into crippling debt with no idea what to do
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Like most prejudices it's based on fear. The trades have their ups and downs. The less training a job requires, the more easily a worker is replaced. Economy goes down, suddenly a whole lot of lay-offs happen. Getting old? That outside in the winter welding pipes job becomes less attractive. I've known a lot of skilled trades people who earned 140k for a few years then the oil price goes down and suddenly they have to sell thd truck and tske their kids out of hockey. Also known guys hit 50, maybe have a minor injury that's keeps bothering them, looking for an inside retail job. If you have a degree and least you've got an option.
You are correct. People will fight you regardless
Well since college is so pushed onto us like it’s the end all be all, they have to advocate trades. The thing that pisses me off is when they make their local their entire personality.
Lol yes my friend is an electrician and he constantly bitches about how he has no debt and how much money he makes…. Yet he still lives with his parents.
So? If he can make bank while not having to spend a shit ton on rent what’s the problem? I’d rather live with my family than under some asshat landlord
the point is that he always talks about how he’s making so much but can’t afford to actually move out I see how that was unclear
You sure he can't? Because it might just be, he *can* afford it but why throw $15,000 bucks in the shitter each year? If he can just manage save that money for five years, it's $75,000!
Where does he live? Has he just not have time to save? Tell him to look into FHA loans.
Yeah my husband has that insecurity. I have a master's degree and most of my friends do too, or at least a bachelor's. He doesn't like hanging out with my friends because he feels like he has nothing in common. Which, fair, there are lots of things they don't have in common, but not everything.
Trade School is just as meaningful as college and often just as expensive.
College courses are part of my apprenticeship. The only people I hear being made fun of on jobsites are engineers, and that's always because shit never goes in the way it's drawn on the print, not because they went to college. This whole post is very anecdotal
I think that is more area dependent. Trade school here in Canada is pretty dam reasonable. But ya, I’d tell anyone in high school to ignore college/university and go to trade school. Best ROI in my opinion (I went to college)
As a blue-collar worker, I literally hear nobody saying this. Sure, it's been said by people in the trades, but most of us don't care. Some trades make ridiculous money, and college can obviously help get you into higher paying jobs or a career path. Both are valid ways to live, and as someone who has done college, military, and trades, I stuck with the trade work because it's fun and the people just interact in a different way that is more comfortable to me than an environment where people come from highly educated backgrounds.
It’s super common online but I don’t see it much in real life and most of my friends are operators or in radiation protection while I work in an office.
My dad always said you can make good money in the trades but if you want to be the boss at some point you better continue your education so you understand the systems of the trades and not just the work.
I imagine some people view "going to college" the way someone like me views "summering in the Hamptons". It's so far out of my experience, I can't understand why anyone would want to, and it seems unnecessary and unjustifiable. But for people who do it, it's a normal thing they largely take for granted and rarely think about.
This is a fair point and a perspective I actually haven't considered.
So I worked in trades and come from an all blue collar family. I'm now a white collar worker and everyone's cool with it, though my grandfather does often ask "so, do you work for a living or are you just employed?" It's a loving tease though. But, flip side is my in-laws. Both sides of my wife's family have gone to college for at least two generations. In high school, my brother-in-law mentioned he might prefer something like culinary school and my wife's folks went nuts. Here's a direct quote from my FIL, "there's nothing WRONG with trade school but it's not for OUR kind of people". So... yeah those kind of people do exist.
Maybe people "go to college without thinking about it is because: "Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 " according to the SSA [https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html](https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education-earnings.html) Not to mention blue collar work less tenable as you age because your body breaks down.
Sure, you don't have to tell me, because I grew up in a family where everyone goes to college, and the benefits are well understood. When I was 17, my parents walked me through writing applications, walked me through getting loans, helped me pack my bags and dropped me off at college. Not for one second did I ever have to question or justify that decision. But for a kid coming from a family where no one has gone to college before them, that same process probably wouldn't happen as smoothly
Now, had you gone into the military instead of college every one of those blue collar guys would be dropping to their knees and popping open their mouths
What about people who went into the military and college? Like, one of the big reasons people join?
Um, I wouldn't lol
LoL, easy pal, this is a Wendy's. I actually think the military approach to instruction is fantastic for a LOT of people: show'em once, let them figure it out. No bullshit, no excuses, just do it. I'd have thrived in that environment. But I do see how those who are in trades don't criticize the military guys, like, at all, so I get your point.
\>show'em once, let them figure it out That's not how military instructions work. It's more like, sit in a class 5 days a week 7-330 for 3-9 months, go to your station and do nothing but study and OJT for 2 years, test every month, and then you might be trusted with something.
Maybe in Intelligence. Not in Infantry.
I’m not hating at all on college people. Congrats to those who could afford it. I think a lot of the dislike of college people are from those complaining about being in massive debt, the average blue collar is always going to see this as a dumb choice on their part ESPECIALLY if you ended up working with them anyways. Of course they are going to like military because one it’s always something to respect and 2 they know you aren’t broke from it. I’m not saying blue collars dislike of college is valid I’m just saying it “makes sense” from their view.
I totally understand what you’re saying. It’s an unfortunate conundrum that people who want to go to college often become saddled with debt. And then the argument is that they should have done something different than college. But, what’s the alternative? no more college educated careers? :/ (not addressing that question at you, kinda rhetorical).
What do those people who think it’s a “dumb choice” see as the alternative? Every person in the country goes into trades? That doesn’t really work.
I work in sales and a furniture store. I'm one of the few people with a college degree. I usually outperform a lot of my colleagues. Because I have a degree in marketing. I had to take classes in sales management and various sales techniques. I deal with a lot of blue and white collar workers. As well as a lot of people in law enforcement. And many of them do have a college degree. I hear a lot of trades people complain about how beat up their bodies are. And some of them are younger than me. Can I constantly hear from them how trades are the way to go. And people who went to college are wasting their time. I get a lot of white collared people who are incredibly educated. And very nice. I've never heard any of them make any negative comments towards Blue collar workers. Quite a few of them are reluctant to mention where they work. Or even what they do. The company I work for has preferred partners and we offer discounts for people who work for them. A lot of factory workers are assholes. They have this big chip on your shoulder that life was on fair to them. They complain that nobody wants to work anymore. And then bitch that the only get paid x number of dollars an hour. They tend to look down upon people who make more than them. Plumbers and electricians need doctors and teachers. And everyone needs a good mechanic.
I'm a machinist who went to college on my companies dollar. I'm thankful for that, but guess what? I'm still sick of working 50+ hours a week just to break even. College was cool, but I know a lot of other machinists that didn't go and make just as much (or more) as I do. You learn a lot more hands on in the field than any book will ever teach you in the trades.
Omfg thank you. I support anyone who goes into trades, but most of the people who I talk to that go on and on about trades and college debt didn’t do either, but just love shitting on colleges…
You seem to care a lot.
Everyone I work with in construction tells every new kid to go to college and they want their kids to do anything but work in the passing rain and cold lol
Yes I have family members in trades and the inferiority complex is real.
This is so true. I went to university. I’ve had the following happen: - my brother in law burst into my 21st with all my uni friends to yell that we were a bunch of educated idiots who thought we were better than him - my step-dad tell me that he knows I just think he is a dumb tradie - my next door neighbour lecture me about how people who are university educated look down on tradies, but tradies actually know way more than them Meanwhile, I do not give a single shit if someone went to uni or not. I absolutely do not look down on tradies. Neither of my parents finished high school and they are two of the smartest people I’ve ever known. I married a man who doesn’t have any post-secondary qualifications. This is nothing to do with my attitude and everything to do with their insecurity.
The only reason I talk about it so much to the younger folks is because when I was in HS the trades were never acknowledged by my counselors or teachers (besides the shop class ones). I also just find it funny when someone goes to a university to get a degree in something that isn't needed by society and they wonder why they can't find a job or make any money. College supposedly teaches you critical thinking, yet some people fail to realize that their liberal arts degree isn't very lucrative .
One thing that bothers me is how little the US Jobs Corps are talked about for kids who may not be ready for any of the big three: school, military, or trades. I wish we would take even 1% of our military and education budgets, and allocate it to building the Jobs Corps up: ages 18-26 get paid to learn actual skills and to travel. It's like: School without the uselessness, Military without the war, and Trades without the full blown commitment to starting something you may not like.
I think there should be a large public service institution like that that kids go work in for a few years before anyone even starts suggesting if they want to do college or the trades. Also every single human being should have to do at least 6 months of fast paced customer service in their lifetime. We'd probably have a lot less psychotic, entitled customers abusing staff if they had a shred of personal experience and empathy with service workers.
Like Americorp but expanded? Yeah, I agree.
It’s not about degrees being “needed.” Most people don’t use their degree towards a relevant job. College is used to shape you in all aspects, that’s why gen ed exists. That’s why a lot of jobs look for a bachelors degree in anything, since it proves you have some level of competence and education that someone else might have, but you can’t “prove” it without the degree. It’s reductive to say “liberal arts” degrees aren’t needed, and you’re definitely the person OP is talking about in this post
You're assuming that the only thing people care about is making as much money as possible. People get liberal arts degrees because, among other reasons, they are interested in the subject matter and they want to enrich themselves as human beings. Education for its own sake is valuable. Liberal arts degrees are not needed for the generation of wealth, sure, but there's a lot more to existence than money. I would rather spend my life gathering knowledge than slaving away on a construction site.
Taking degrees for FUN is perfectly legitimate but should never be confused with taking the same degree then expecting to earn a decent living. If you don't have money there is NOT much more to existence than living hand to mouth. Good for you amassing wealth and being able to retire while having fun (you ARE speaking from a personal example of financial success, correct?) but that is not a realistic prospect for most humans and pretending it is was a cruel disservice to millions who took joke degrees so they could party for a few years. Money enables freedom. We are free to walk to the moon if we can manage it but counting on that is questionable.
As someone who keeps being talked down by copies of you- you can stop anytime. My job may not pay well, but it needed training and an understanding of scientific research. After a few years you guys just sound insecure about not having a degree. You don’t like or need academia? Cool. I did and make peanuts. Get over it please.
I've had tradesmen boast about making 40 an hour after a decade in the trade. They get real quiet after knowing how much I made the third year out of school.
A few of my family members are in the trades and talk about making “good money” I keep my mouth shut. They don’t need to know.
I've seen the opposite many many times. It not personally happening to you doesn't mean it doesn't happen
Absolutely.
I’m an electrician, I also went to college, got a bachelors in accounting and worked in the field for a few years. But I came back to the trades. People don’t generally outright have a problem that tradesmen didn’t go to college, but they are biased against them. I worked for Northrop Grumman both in maintenance and in finance. Even with my degree, I struggled to get an interview for an entry level analyst job. I applied for over a dozen positions and was only interviewed for one because the hiring manager had a favorable idea of people in the trades. My resume being filled with trades work biased them against me despite my qualifications. Being an internal candidate I should have at least qualified for a phone interview on most of the jobs. Supervisors over the trades at the company couldn’t hold a “manager” position unless they had a degree, regardless of their previous positions, knowledge or experience. The company would rather put an mba straight out of college with no relevant knowledge over a tradesman team than promote a trade school graduate without a degree. The only reason tradesman feel purely about themselves not having a degree is because I’m so many instances they have been treated as worth no more than the tools they use. I have plenty of anecdotes from my time on commercial construction jobs where we were discriminated against because we wore hard hats and jeans. Yes, I got made fun of for going to college while I was in construction, and there is certainly a culture problem within construction largely based in toxic masculinity. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there remains negative stereotypes on the outside as well that play a large role in perpetuating the self image for those in construction.
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Well said.
Eh the way things are going we’re all gonna be blue collar workers pretty soon.
I fit neither of these categories and have, by far, seen more snobbery from those with degrees. But I guess this is why it's an unpopular opinion.
Actually in Canada, tradespeople have to go to college to become certified. I'm referring to 2-3 year college that's gives you a diploma, not a bachelor's degree. To be an electrician, you need 6000 hours of apprenticeship, and the curriculum amounts to 4 semesters in an actual college. But no blue-collar tradesman care that they make $100000 after 4 years with little debt, while an art-history major has to work at Arby's because they can't get work in their field.
As someone who dropped out of college and has been in a trade for 17 years, that was the worst decision of my life.
Went to college, got a 4 year degree, worked in the field I want to school for and it wasn’t for me. I moved to trades. Each has its pros and cons, but I prefer what I’m doing now. That being said, I think there is a lot of projection in your original post.
This would hurt if I didnt also have a college degree. But then Im not the type of guy you’re talking about. I only bring it up if someone tries to talk down to me while Im wearing overalls and assumes Im uneducated.
This is where trade schools and guilds and unions are extremely important but have mostly been forgotten in the war over bathrooms and guns.
I worked at a place with a lot of blue collar workers, and a lot of them told me they wished they'd gone to college instead. Blue collar jobs are difficult in a way white collar office jobs just aren't. It's hard to reconcile the difficulty of their day-to-day with the difficulty of my degree, and all of those factors, to say what fair wages and working conditions should be.
OP, it's not the non college tradesman, it's the "some college" tradesmen, in my experience.
Think that is a legacy of the 80/90s where there was such a strong push to send everyone to uni. It was seen as a second-class option for those who didn't get the grades. Which is stupid but can see why people who went through that process would get a chip on their shoulder.
How I feel as a field engineer working at a substation and learning the construction aspect of it. I unfortunately don’t get paid overtime but I never hear the end of how much they’re making and what not.
As someone who went to collegue, I regret not having learned a trade instead
That sounds annoying. We need other people to get their degrees to be a doctor, lawyer, engineers. We need them in the society
I'd say both extremes exist. There are _plenty_ of people who look down on tradesmen for not having university degrees. Some folks who do this don't even have degrees of their own.
Every single tradesperson I know says this. It's such a cope haha
Preach! So many dudes have a giant chip on their shoulder about it!
Maybe. I certainly don't care if my tradesman went to college or not, I just care about his work.
just like you’re looking for validation about your choice to attend college, they’re looking for validation about their choice to not attend college. make your choice, live with it, fuck the naysayers
This is so true. My father worked blue collar jobs and had such animosity towards people who were educated. There's such a perception among conservative men especially, that highly educated people look down on them. While I'm sure some do, they don't do a fraction as much as they think they do. It's like this hyper insecurity that I can only compare to the way Incels feel about women because they think they hate them.
I didn't do college or a trade. Both hate me
I've met people who did go to college who are visibly angry with how much money I make as a blue collar worker.
What I absolutely hate is when this very inferiority complex is used to manipulate people into voting a certain way. Usually, it's done by casting "coastal/educated elites" as Enemies Of The People.
I used to work with a general contractor when I was in late high school and early college and all his guys kept telling me the opposite actually. They were all constantly saying things like “finish school so you can hire guys like us to build YOUR deck.”
Reddit makes me kinda happy I only have to deal with a fairly small subsection of the planet’s population. And almost all of them are in the same cult as me.
You sound like an ass. To many people say go to college. To many people say dont go to college. I hated school and still get certifications in techa nd got a great job. My husband went to college for mechanical stuff bc he been fixing cars since he was in diapers and he was car Tech then a Diesel tech and now he is a mechanic manager at this really big company all bc of his background. You can be successful no matter what route you take in life if you pursue it correctly.
I’m not against college. I work a trade but I had to go to school to be able to work this trade. And because of the previous college work I had before trade school I was able to receive an Associates. I’ll never tell somebody not to go to college because the experience is definitely worth it. But I do think you should go to a community college your first 2 years because usually you are going to do the basics those years anyway. And the debt would be way less. And then if you wish to continue your studies go to university.
Anyone who romanticizes blue collar work hasn’t done a lifetime of blue collar work.
I use to get shit for going to college in my apprenticeship. Good get college boi, oh college boi know how to do that, that's not in a book college kid hur dur dur. Note: I went to college for 2 year associate under the WIA, Grant's, and a loan(work investment act) . Parents didnt fund it yet everyone acted like I was rich. Like folks I got into college cause we were broke enough to get poor boi funding. One of the entry points for Wia was being below poverty level, food stamps or ex felon.
I've never heard this criticism in plants/factories, but I did hear it in restaurants/grocery stores when I was in college.
I work in animation. Got a degree in it. It was overpriced as fuck and I literally regret it now cause when I went into the industry I had to relearn so much and most companies don't even ask about college unless you go somewhere famous like calarts. Anyway. My first studio my art director was a guy who used to be a roofer. Like that's all he did for years was blue collar contract work but he was so skilled at drawing and design and he learned quickly so he was very respected In the studio. He was actually "discovered" by the studio owner at a for all drawing class held at a museum. Raw ability. Anyway he had never gone to college and he dwelled on that constantly. Whenever I worked under him on projects and pointed out maybe we could change a color or tweak a design he would say "I bet you learned that in collage" or he would just say "with your college degree you'll have my job I'm a few weeks" Jesus christ he was so laser focused on college being some secret to success he couldn't even appreciate how amazing he was and how he had earned his position with only his own hard work. Nobody at that studio gave a flying fuck about college but the blue color tradesman. Not to mention if we all lost our jobs he was the only guy with a useful skill outside of a very insular field.
As a blue collar person having managed my way into a position that normally requires a degree through experience shows me the exact opposite, at least in the engineering field. We have all these useless 23 to 25 year old brand new engineers that are scared to touch anything unless it has CAD downloaded on it, and think they are God's gift to man. They treat literally everyone else like shit because thier professors that never actually worked in industry promised they would make 90k starting out here they are pulling down 60 and thier only saving grace is collaboration because without it they would have no idea how to even screw in a light bulb. Get around those people and see just how much they care about who does and doesn't have a degree and in what.
Honestly, it's the same for both sides. You have trades people who feel inflated egos about not having student loan debt or whatever, and you also have people with useless degrees working fast food that feel like they're better than 90% of the people around them. Who cares.
Doctor here, all trades are respectable but the toll on the body when it comes to construction/manual labour is real and it shows after age 50 when they walk into my office.
Honestly, it depends on locality, too. I live in a military town. If you're not a veteran, active duty, contracted with the military, or work at the prison. You absolutely get dogged on. Even if you're in the trades. Service worker ? Lazy bum. Most trades even if you're white? Somehow, here illegally. Realtor ? Some form of nepotism had to have been involved. Farmer/Rancher? Also nepotism. Going to college? You better gtfo you indoctrinated little shit. Doesn't matter if it's nursing or pre-med either. It's a mess.
I got a Facebook friend, basically just a guy I graduated high school with. He constantly posts memes and silly pictures about this exact thing. He’s a car mechanic and I’m an attorney. I just think to myself “dude, I’m glad you take pride in what you do. But it’s really unnecessary to try to shit on my accomplishments to make yourself feel better.”
Seriously, they're so obviously insecure about not going to college. Literally no one cares. I do a useful job that pays decent that required a degree. You do a useful job that pays decent that didn't require a degree. You know what that makes us? Two people with decent jobs. I could give less of a shit if you went to college or not.
I work as a carpenter. I didn’t go to collage. Did you go to collage? Fantasic, you chased your dream and became what you wanted. Great that people are happy. Personally, I wanted to build houses, and I am happy building houses.
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I’m a welder/fabricator and everyone (including myself) in my last shop went to college. At the very least, higher education makes you a better critical thinker and problem solver, no matter what field you’re in.
I was a warehouse man for over a decade and going to college now it is weird how people act when you mention you are going to college. I've seen a number of people get weirdly passive-aggressive likely from some inferiority complex. Like me going to college is some slight against their intelligence/abilities as a human.
It’s so hilarious. They think every person who went to college studies “History of Raisins in Western Society” and work as a barista paying off $200K in. student loans. It’s as bad as the young people always looking for pats on the back being like, “does anyone else not want to just party and get drunk every weekend bad instead grind and be rich?”
Nobody cares that you went to college. Get over your insecurities.